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Amanpour

Buhari Wins Nigerian Presidential Election; Deal or No Deal in Iran Nuclear Talks? Iraqi Forces Take Back Tikrit from ISIS; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 31, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:27] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight: a big win for democracy in Nigeria, a free and fair election and a new president.

A big win against ISIS in Iraq. Tikrit is liberated. The fight goes on.

And Iran nuclear talks down to the wire. Will there be a deal? I'll ask a top former negotiator.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

And Nigeria tonight has a new president. There is dancing in the streets as the opposition leader, Mohammed du Buhari, has pulled off a dramatic and

comfortable election win against his rival, President Goodluck Jonathan.

Buhari, a 72-year-old former Nigerian military ruler, sealed his victory with more than 2 million votes. And this is the first time in the

country's short 16-year history of democracy that an opposition party has won a presidential election, that an incumbent has lost.

Buhari led a campaign of anti-corruption. Indeed, he spelled out the nation's dire challenge when I interviewed him when he was on the campaign

trail in February.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MUHAMMADU BUHARI, PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA: There are serious students of this country that said unless Nigeria kills corruption, corruption will kill

Nigeria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So killing corruption was his pledge; so, too, was a pledge to fight back against Boko Haram. The group that's been terrorizing the

mainly Muslim north where Buhari comes from.

Now although Buhari has claimed victory and Goodluck Jonathan has called to concede, Nigeria's fiercely independent electoral commission has not

formally announced the final tally.

But I asked the chief press secretary what kind of an election it had been. Security fears delayed it once and fears of fraud abounded. But Kayode

Idowu tells me that, in fact, democracy has won in a clean Nigerian election.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Kayode Idowu, thank you for joining me. Welcome to the program.

KAYODE IDOWU, NIGERIAN INDEPENDENT NATIONAL ELECTORAL COMMISSION: Thank you for having me on your program, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Mr. Idowu, we understand that President Goodluck Jonathan has in fact contacted and called General Buhari to congratulate him and presumably

concede defeat.

Is that the official word now?

When will we know the official numbers?

IDOWU: I don't have that official permission on that because like I said, the tally has not been called. What honestly in that has been done, it is

extremely helpful for the process. And it will be welcome. But as far as the commission is concerned, our task is to run the process and announce

the results and it is left for the poliscar (ph) of course to be the midphone (ph) with the outcomes.

AMANPOUR: When exactly will the final tallies be announced?

When will the commission declare to the nation the results of this election?

IDOWU: We are expecting one more state (ph) to come and that is what is holding the declaration.

Once the state (ph) comes in, the results will be announced. The results will be tallied and we will (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: Everybody was looking at this process and looking at the legality of the whole processes. So can you tell me from the commission's

point of view, was this a clean-run election?

Was there any voter irregularities or interference that you know of?

IDOWU: We had a number of challenges and we had to deal with it. But I can tell you that generally speaking, we had good elections and the

collation results in Monday and the bulwark has seen how we have carried out the collation. We are made it as transparent as we can be.

The mere fact that it is so transparent makes it really inamenable (ph) to interference because the way we are is so much in the open that nothing

else can be done on (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: Well, you talk about Monday and how the collation started and the transparency. But of course it was Monday that the secretary of state

of the United States and the British foreign secretary put out their warning, basically saying that the vote had gone all right but that there

are disturbing indications that the collation processes, where the votes are finally counted, may be subject to deliberate political interference.

[14:05:15] What is your reaction to what they said yesterday?

IDOWU: It is well and legitimate for fears to be expressed. Such fears may be helpful to the process itself in that it signals that the focus of

the world is on the country. And so it is quite legitimate and welcome. What I can reassure you that this commission for us (INAUDIBLE) where

within the (INAUDIBLE) that the constitutional -- a constitution provides, it will not be amenable to being manipulated or being interfered with.

AMANPOUR: So now let me ask you about security, because again, the whole world watched and was quite worried when the elections were delayed by six

weeks because of the security challenge.

As far as the commission is concerned, and observers and monitors, what was the security around the vote and around the collation, the counting of the

vote?

IDOWU: On Election Day, there was challenge. There were the security breach in the (INAUDIBLE) where we had a (INAUDIBLE) bomb attack. But

thankfully the security agents were on call and they were able to intervene.

Unfortunately, people died (INAUDIBLE) the electoral commission lost some workers in that blast (ph). But ultimately we thank God that it was not

much worse.

AMANPOUR: So has democracy won in Nigeria, Mr. Idowu?

IDOWU: I want to believe so. We have come this far. And I think that at this point where we are, it's difficult to reverse the trend without

incurring global backlash. So I want to believe that democracy has won.

Kayode Idowu, thank you so much for joining me from the election commission headquarters. Thank you.

IDOWU: Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So formal, formal final numbers to be out soon from Nigeria. And after a break, we turn from Buhari's victory to triumph on the

battlefields of Iraq. Some rare good news as ISIS loses part of its caliphate. That's coming up next.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

In Switzerland, top diplomats are trying to reach an historic agreement on a framework for regulating Iran's nuclear program. Reuters is quoting the

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, as saying talks are progressing but they're complicated.

[15:10:05] He fears they'll spend the night negotiating.

For the West, the end game is clear, that Tehran doesn't develop nuclear weapons and for Iran, it's clear that sanctions are swiftly lifted and

complete. They want that to happen. And the stakes are high for people in Iran. Just look at some of these tweets from those anxiously waiting for

word.

One man in Tehran says, "Iranians following Iran talks as Americans follow the Super Bowl."

And another Twitter user talks about desperately wanting news, saying, "The stress is killing us."

So joining me now from Princeton University in New Jersey is Hossein Mousavian, an Iranian policymaker who served on Iran's nuclear negotiating

team under now-President Rouhani.

Mr. Mousavian, welcome back to this program. You heard what I said, people are desperate for news, especially in your home country.

What do you know about how long it's going to take to reach some sort of an answer?

HOSSEIN MOUSAVIAN, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: As far as I know, they have made excellent progress. And they have come on understanding they are working

on a joint statement whether this would be announced orally or that would be a written statement. But I believe they would have a joint statement

announcing progress made and some disputed or left negotiations would continue until they reach a comprehensive deal by June 2015.

AMANPOUR: OK.

When do you think this statement that you're talking about is going to happen, tonight or tomorrow?

MOUSAVIAN: It could be tonight but most probably this would be by tomorrow evening, tomorrow night.

AMANPOUR: And what do you think -- because you're talking about a statement -- and in fact, I've sort of heard the possibility of, you know,

signing off on some progress on where all sides have made progress, almost like an update on what's going on rather than the full framework that we

had been expecting?

MOUSAVIAN: Look, they have already agreed about all measures within non- proliferation treaty, NPT, which, from the day one, it was supposed NPT to be the criteria for comprehensive deal.

It is good news that we know now they have already agreed about all measures within NPT, Iran would be fully committed with the - all the

obligations within NPT.

There are some dispute left about measures beyond NPT. However, I believe there would be a statement and most probably they may have about six

annexes to the main statement; in each annexes, they would discuss details of major issues like enrichment at Natanz, enrichment at Fordo, heavy water

facility at Arak. They are working on details of such annexes.

AMANPOUR: So can you tell me where the hiccups are?

You've talked -- you've just explained some of these.

But what about the idea of getting rid of a large stockpile of enriched uranium? Is that what Iran is going to do?

What about -- we've heard Iranians are worried about the pace of sanctions lifting, about R&D. They want to continue R&D within the life of this

deal, if it's reached.

MOUSAVIAN: They would agree for a duration like 10 years for confidence- building measures, which would be the measures within NPT and some measures beyond NPT.

I believe Iranians, they have no problem to minimize the enriched stockpile to the level of the real domestic and practical needs. I believe Iranians

are also -- would agree to either dilute or to convert the excessive amount of their enriched uranium stockpile.

The problem, the main problem is about proportionality. Iranians, they say, we are ready to implement all our obligations and commitments in a

short time if you are ready to reciprocate these proportionate reactions, most important is about the sanctions relief.

[14:15:14] That's why they practically -- they are negotiating now how to arrange a comprehensive package with a timetable with step-by-step, with

proportionate reciprocations.

AMANPOUR: Mr. Mousavian, these talks have been going on since 2013.

Why is it that this stuff hasn't been agreed or figured out to now?

Why do we get right down to a deadline and still keep going over it?

What else is there to negotiate?

MOUSAVIAN: See, Christiane, we cannot neglect the Iran and the U.S. have had the most hostile (ph) relations during 35 years. And there is a huge

mistrust and as I have explained in my book, the last 35 years, there has been a lot of efforts to bring improvement in Iran-U.S. relations. But all

have failed. This is for the first time the most serious interaction at the highest level between Iranians and American has taken place and has

been really successful. They have made a real progress. A lot of confidence has been created between the negotiators, because now they both

are convinced that they want deal. They don't want to cheat. They want make it possible. They both want to respect international rules and

regulations.

And already the achievements are big for about a year and a half of negotiations. I'm confident within 2-3 more months of negotiation, they

would be able to reach the comprehensive deal.

However, we should know a nuclear deal by a nuclear deal, 35 years of hostility is not going to be resolved immediately but such a nuclear deal

can be a beginning of an end to a long-term hostility between Iran and the U.S. And this could be really a big step forward toward peace between

Iranian and Americans.

AMANPOUR: And what your critics say, obviously, is that this is a way for Iran to park its military nuclear ambitions and wait for the deal to expire

and then go on and do what they always wanted to do, which is to build a nuclear weapon. That is what those who are against this deal say.

MOUSAVIAN: See, Christiane, whether they like it or not, it's part of all sanctions, pressures, coercive strategies, everyone today recognizes that

Iran is the most stable country, very powerful with huge influence in the region. Therefore, 35 years of sanctions, pressures, coercion, practically

has failed. Now let's Iranians, Americans -- Iranians and Americans try a new path toward peace. Let's try both of them for cooperation on major

issues, major threats in the region, like ISIS, Sunni extremism and terrorism. There are a lot of communities -- commonalities between Iran

and the U.S. fighting terrorism, bringing peace and stability in Afghanistan and in Iraq. That's why I believe this is the time for Iran

and the U.S. to finish this nuclear issue and to go (INAUDIBLE) dialogue on original issues.

AMANPOUR: All really massively important. Hossein Mousavian, formerly on the negotiating team and plugged into the current goings-on in Switzerland,

thank you for joining us tonight.

And while those diplomats there are firmly entrenched around the negotiating table, the United States and its partners have won on the

battleground in Tikrit in a major victory in the fight against ISIS in Iraq after a grinding battle that's gone on for weeks, Prime Minister Haider al-

Abadi told the nation today that the city has been liberated from ISIS, which have controlled it since June.

So joining me now from the White House is Brett McGurk, who's the U.S. presidential envoy to the global coalition to counter ISIL.

Mr. McGurk, thank you; welcome back to the program.

BRETT MCGURK, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you. Thank you again for having me.

AMANPOUR: So we had you earlier this week and we were talking about the United States stepping up its help in the battle against Tikrit.

[14:20:05] What can you tell us?

Is Haider al-Abadi right? Has all of Tikrit been liberated?

MCGURK: Well, Christiane, this has been an ongoing process. I'm here at the White House and Vice President Biden actually spoke with Prime Minister

Abadi on Saturday about the state of the campaign, about a few more airstrikes that we would be doing before his forces crossed.

Today there was a major advance by Iraqi security forces and they've taken the -- really the heart of Tikrit, where the provincial palace is and where

the government buildings are.

This is really a really impressive progress by the Iraqis. As I told you I think the other day when I was talking to you, we're going to stand with

them until the entire city of Tikrit is liberated. There are some pockets that they still have to go through.

And this is going to be very painstaking work. The city is still mined with IEDs and potential snipers and potential holdouts of ISIS fighters.

AMANPOUR: But this --

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MCGURK: So there's some work to do here, but we're encouraged.

AMANPOUR: -- I was going to say you must be encouraged and this probably - - or does it -- give added impetus and momentum to keep going, because obviously Mosul is the big target.

Give us an idea of what this means now, that Tikrit has either been mostly or partly liberated.

MCGURK: Well, Christiane, this is the first attempt by the Iraqi security forces to liberate a major urban area from ISIS. So it's a real test. And

there's lessons being learned hour by hour as we speak. And those lessons will be applied to operations in other areas, whether Fallujah, whether

Mosul and those will happen on a sequential basis together with our Iraqi partners. And we're going to plan that campaign.

As you know, Prime Minister Abadi will be here in Washington in about two weeks. He'll be here at the White House and he'll be meeting with

President Obama and the sequence of events over the next 4-6 months will be a key topic for them and will also, of course, compare the lessons learned.

Prime Minister Abadi will go to the Pentagon and meet with Secretary of Defense Ash Carter and Chairman Dempsey and discuss what we learned in

Tikrit, what went right, what went wrong. But I just want to emphasize, there will still be some fighting here in Tikrit. It's a fairly large

city. ISIS has embedded itself in the city, made it into a fortress. But we're encouraged by the progress today. We welcome it. We're in close

contact with our Iraqi partners, particularly through a joint operation center we have in Baghdad.

And we set that up last summer. But Prime Minister Abadi was there today, our commanders are there, Iraqi commanders to monitor the progress on the

battlefield. It's a very complicated, complex operating environment.

But so far today we've had some very encouraging signs of progress.

AMANPOUR: I just wanted to pick up, you said there will be a sort of review of lessons learned, what went right, what went wrong.

So perhaps you can elaborate on that. And particularly I'd like to ask you did the United States make as a condition of entering the fray really here,

the coalition bombings around Tikrit, that some of these Shiite militias had to get out of the fight?

MCGURK: Well, lessons learned, we're always reviewing lessons learned. And because this is the first major urban area that Iraqi security forces

have moved in to clear from daish, I think it would be really appropriate to step and find out do you think some things may have gone better than we

anticipated; some things went a little slower than anticipated.

And the role of these militia forces will also be a topic of conversation. Our condition, Christiane, was a condition similar to where we apply our

power anywhere on this battlefield. We had to ensure clear Iraqi command and control over all the units in the operating vicinity in which we would

be providing air cover and that's because we want to make sure we don't have any friendly fire incidents, just because we want to make sure we have

real fidelity over what is happening on the battlefield.

So therefore units on the field are not controlled or commanded by Iraqi chain of command would have been a real problem for us. The Iraqis met

that condition and therefore we were able to provide our air cover. And that's one reason you see the progress today.

AMANPOUR: Fantastic. Some good news from Iraq.

Brett McGurk, the presidential envoy on the coalition against ISIL, thank you very much for joining us.

And after a break, imagining a world where willpower and compassion literally create a pathway to proximity and perhaps closure for the

families of the Germanwings victims. That's next.

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[15:27:04] AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, 126 years ago today, the astonishing Eiffel Tower was unveiled in Paris, completed in an equally

astonishing two short years. Now on this anniversary of Gustav Eiffel's towering achievement, imagine a world where France creates another

construction marvel, building a road to the previously insurmountable crash site of the Germanwings flight.

Just two days after work began on Sunday, vehicles are driving along it now. It's more than a kilometer long and it's built using the same stones

that have made this debris field so dangerous for recovery workers and police now tell reporters that a 45-minute journey by road means those

workers can go faster, later and bring back more items. And it will also now take investigators and family members of those lost to the crash site.

If only Gustav Eiffel could see his countrymen building on his legacy today, this time compassion spurring on French ingenuity in all its glory,

proving that where there's a will, there is a way.

And that is it for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter.

Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

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