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Where Are Nigeria's Missing Girls?; New China-Led Development Bank Makes Waves; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 14, 2015 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight: exactly one year after this campaign went viral, we asked, where are Nigeria's missing schoolgirls? My

interview with the (INAUDIBLE) release from Boko Haram.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEHU SANI, NIGERIAN GOVERNOR: But I believe that with a new government in place after May 29, (INAUDIBLE) perhaps there will be a fresh beginning in

terms of trying to get the girls out.

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AMANPOUR: Plus how to deal with the ever-rising superpowers (INAUDIBLE).

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

This time a year ago the world united around one message to Nigeria and that was, "Bring back our girls."

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MALALA YOUSAFZAI, EDUCATION ACTIVIST: When I heard about girls in Nigeria being abducted, I felt very sad and I thought that my sisters are in prison

now.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: This unconscionable act was committed by a terrorist group determined to keep these girls from

getting an education grown men attempting to snuff out the aspirations of young girls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm absolutely sickened by it. And the thought of them out there right now terrified and being abused and sold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: But despite all the raised voices, the Western surveillance flights sent to locate them and the many promises made to bring them home,

there is still no sign of the more than 200 missing Nigerian schoolgirls who were kidnapped by Boko Haram.

The militant group says they were converted to Islam and married off while Nigeria's President-Elect Muhammadu Buhari says that much as he wishes to,

he cannot promise they'll ever be rescued.

Buhari did however promise their desperate parents that he will try to defeat Boko Haram. And when I spoke to him right after his election just

two weeks ago, I asked him what his government will do differently.

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MUHAMMADU BUHARI, PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA: Well, I think firstly we have to (INAUDIBLE) cooperation of the neighboring countries, Cameroon, Chad and

Niger, although some effort was made by this administration. But it wasn't good enough and it was too late, too little.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: For the families of the Chibok girls it was too late too little and for the countless others who've been abducted since.

But Nigerians are giving their new president a vote of cautious optimism. Buhari's party also won by a landslide in local elections for state

governors this weekend. One of those newly elected officials is Shehu Sani, who tried negotiating with Boko Haram for the release of those Chibok

girls. And he joined me from Abuja. I asked him whether the new government would do any better than the last.

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AMANPOUR: Shehu Sani, welcome to the program.

Let me ask you first, you were negotiating with Boko Haram and even last summer you said you expect these girls to be released fairly soon. It

didn't happen.

What went wrong?

SANI: Well, what we tried to do the last time is simply to open a window of communication by reaching out to the insurgents and exploring the

possibility of getting the girls freed through dialogue. If we can remember the last time when the girls were abducted, the leader of the

group, Shekau, came out and said they were prepared to release the girls on the ground that they are members will be swapped in a deal. And I -- what

I did was simply to reach out to some few persons and then see how that could be made a reality, that is reaching out to the insurgents and then

reaching out to the government also. And see how we can get to a (INAUDIBLE). But it wasn't possible because they didn't actually get with

the names of those they wanted them to release. And the government said initially that they were prepared for a swap deal. And later the government

turned down the offer on the -- at the last minute. And that was what led to the abrupt end of that attempt.

AMANPOUR: So if the government refused a prisoner swap and the government also refused any military intervention at the time, what on Earth is there

to talk about and how on Earth did you think you might get these girls back?

And will this new government do anything different than the old government did?

SANI: I believe that with a new government in place after May 29, if General Muhammadu (INAUDIBLE), perhaps there will be a fresh beginning in

terms of trying to get the girls out.

And the only way possible for now, which I will suggest, is for the government, for the new government to use the insurgents that have been

(INAUDIBLE) who were members of the shura council of the group, and to see how they could be used to reach out to the leadership and then get these

girls out.

But apart from that, we only have the options of raiding the camp. And to raid the camp, you have to know where the camp is. And you also have to

know that there are consequences attached to such an option.

AMANPOUR: Now of course there are some 2,000 of these girls and others who've been abducted, according to Amnesty International. We talk about

the 200 who were abducted a year ago from Chibok. But do you think that the Buhari government is more committed than the Goodluck government was to

actually doing something serious in the northern area there?

SANI: Well, there were abductions before the Chibok and there were abductions after Chibok. The reality is our government, the government of

Jonathan, have not learned anything from what happened in the past. They kept on making mistakes and up until the last minute. I believe that the

Buhari government, which I will be part of as the (INAUDIBLE) as a senator, will do something different because in the speeches which he has made since

this election, he has made it clear that addressing the issue of this insurgence is a major agenda in his government. And I believe he will do

something.

But the issue is that he wasn't specific on the Chibok girls because there are consequences attached to certain deadlines and also making specific

decisions because you raise expectations which may not be met at the end of the day.

So the emphasis from his speeches was clear that he will use the might of the space (ph) to end the insurgence.

AMANPOUR: Can I ask you a broader question about the north because -- and there's a new book out and here's a quote about that northern area, back in

the 19th century -- I know that's a long time ago, but it was truly remarkable -- an example of state building almost free of rebellions or

schisms, famines or epidemics. And economically successful as well. Now contrast that with today's poverty and the violence, is there a way to get

even the north to be part of Nigeria, to feel part of the country, to feel that it's got a stake in the country and neutralize Boko Haram like that?

SANI: Well, what we need to clearly understand is that Boko Haram is an insurgent group or is an ideology, doesn't represent the booth (ph) and the

perception or the religious inclinations of people of Northern Nigeria. In north -- in the northern part of the country, you have the Sunni, you have

the Shiite, you have the (INAUDIBLE) and several sects. So this Boko Haram is simply a subsect of other sects. So it doesn't represent the interests

of people.

Now in the north, the poverty, the underdevelopment in the part of the region is a part of the history of exploitation and neglect by successive

governments in we got our independence from the British in 1960. And what is happening in the north today is accumulative of what was done over the

years. And the violence, the underdevelopment that is going on in northern part of Nigeria is a sum of what the governments of the past that have

wasted the resources of the country, that have been unable to address the basic issues of development, that have also been unable to apply the

resources of the country for the development of the whole country, is what we are seeing on the ground today. And it is impossible that you have a

new north, not only a new Nigeria and north, because we are -- the (INAUDIBLE) part of the country. And we have people that are willing and

able to contribute towards the -- that issues of development I will address. And with the new government in place after the elections of 28th

of March, there were hope in the region and in the whole country that we have now a new leader who will confront those socioeconomic and political

issues that have retarded the development of the region.

AMANPOUR: Shehu Sani, senator-elect with President Buhari's party, a lot of challenges ahead for you and your country. And the world will be

watching. Thank you so much for joining me from Abuja.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And now an art therapy project by UNICEF gives us a chance to see the world through the eyes of Nigerian children, those who've managed

to escape Boko Haram. They've been drawing their harrowing memories of its scorched earth policy. It's a way, they hope, to exorcise those demons.

Now while over in Sierra Leone, children are going back to their schools for the first time in nine months since Ebola ravaged their neighborhoods.

Their very first lesson about Ebola hygiene and prevention.

And after a break, a lesson in economics. I speak to the former U.S. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson about the rise of China and that famous

pivot to Asia. That's when we come back.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

Communist China's capitalist rise to economic superpower has left much of the world and business communities scrambling to catch up -- or at least

try to figure out what all this means for all of us.

And who better to ask than Hank Paulson, a CEO at a financial megafirm Goldman Sachs and as U.S. Treasury Secretary during the height of the

financial crisis, he's traveled to the country more than 100 times.

Should we be worried, then? Let us ask Secretary Paulson, whose new book, which is out today (INAUDIBLE).

HANK PAULSON, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: Christiane, I'm delighted to be with you.

AMANPOUR: You put the word "superpower" alongside China right in the title of your book. Yesterday, Marco Rubio, senator from Florida, called for a

new American century as he put his hat in the presidential ring.

Which is it, do you think?

PAULSON: Well, Christiane, that's an interesting question because we've had China emerge as a -- now a major competitor with the United States,

much more muscular foreign policy and a leader that's attempting to transform all of the institutions that I can think of of China.

But I argue that it's at least as big a problem to overestimate China's power and position as it is to underestimate its potential because this is

a country that has got huge challenges right now. They've had an economic model that's been a -- really a driver of success for years but it's

running out of steam and they need to reboot their economy.

They've got an urbanization model that isn't working. And they need (INAUDIBLE) for the next 300 million people going to the cities, which

again is huge in what this means to the world. And they have 650 million in the cities now. But the next 300 million over the next 25 years will be

a big global event. They're dealing with very serious environmental problems, which are a major flashpoint. They're dealing with big

corruption problems. They're dealing with food safety problems, property rights issues.

So this leader, this new president, Xi Jinping, has got some mega challenges and so what I argue in dealing with China that they are a

competitor, they are a partner; it's very important that we have a pragmatic relationship with them because we have many areas of common

interest and it's very important that we work together to solve some of those or help solve some of those issues because as I look at it, the --

many of the neighbor -- the major global issues are going to be a lot easier to meet if we're working with China and much more difficult if we're

working cross-purposes with them.

AMANPOUR: Secretary Paulson --

PAULSON: And I would start --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: -- that is a really very good primer for us to delve into right now. You've laid out a lot of challenges there.

Let me first ask you then about the leadership. You know President Xi Jinping. You met him even before he became president. Yet he is turning

out to be one of the most authoritarian leaders and (INAUDIBLE) "The Economist" says more than any of his recent (INAUDIBLE) politically.

PAULSON: Well, it's a very interesting (INAUDIBLE) because of course all of us in the West, we look at a paradox, which is very difficult to

explain.

How do you have a leader that on the one hand is working to free up the economy, to letting the markets be decisive at the same time tougher when

it comes to the media, the Internet and the political system?

Those two seem to not go together. But to this leader, they seem to go together because he looks at the Communist Party as being the key to

China's stability and the organization -- the only organization -- that's strong enough to help drive through his reforms.

So that's the paradox. Now I look at it and I say longer term that doesn't work because in today's information economy, how do you innovate? How do

you drive the economy forward? How do China's companies run a -- how do you manage a company in the global market if you're disconnected?

But today Xi Jinping is focused on the issues that most people care about the most -- corruption, major issue; cleaning up the dirty air and water,

major issue; focused on property rights, again, big issue; focusing on income disparities and he's got to do all of this without the modern

institutions of government or a legal system or laws that you can really rely on.

And so he's again doing this through the party and he has said quite publicly and I think very sincerely that the Communist Party won't survive

if it doesn't deal with corruption. So he's had this massive anti- corruption campaign, punished 250,000 members of the Communist Party, 75- plus minister level.

So again ,working to curb the corruption but also consolidating power because this is one of the tools he's got in his toolbox to consolidate

power but even so he's got huge challenges because the country's divided on some of these very difficult reforms he's attempting to put in place.

AMANPOUR: And you mentioned the United States. You say in your book the U.S. has to deal with China (INAUDIBLE) also from a position of strength.

How do you then react to this huge kerfuffle over the United States sort of being stuck by the Chinese, the Asia infrastructure investment bank and how

Britain and the rest of Europe leapt to jump into bed with this bank and defied America's pleas to stay out of it?

Is the economic power balance moving?

PAULSON: Well, Christiane, this wasn't our finest hour. And I give the Obama administration a lot of credit for striking this climate change deal

with the Chinese and for a lot of things they've done. I don't think this is the right strategy. I also don't see this as a huge watershed event or

a -- the major issue the press is making it out to be. But I look at it very simply. The United States (INAUDIBLE) the leader, more than any

(INAUDIBLE). And the China development bank, the world needs this.

So China sets up -- says it's going to set up Asian infrastructure investment bank. I think the right policy was for the U.S. government to

say maybe we can't join because I don't think Congress would have approved it. But to say right on; we'd like to work with you as an observer, work

and fight for higher standards because I think the higher standards are very important. But we didn't do that.

And I think it's doubly bad. We need to be strategic to pick a fight that we're not going to win.

AMANPOUR: Right. Let me ask you before --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: -- sorry. We've got one moment left and I want to ask you a little anecdote. You talked about (INAUDIBLE) huge issue there. In your

book you talk about comparing wrist watches with China's anti-corruption chief, so to speak.

(INAUDIBLE).

PAULSON: (INAUDIBLE) I'd worked with and a lot of economic reforms. And he's right now driving the anti-corruption campaign. And he was talking

about -- he called them the netizens, because the people are so angry and fed up with corruption and with all these Chinese officials that have got

no salaries to speak of with these big, expensive Rolex watches and so on. And so they would send in and take pictures of these watches and put them

on the Internet and of course this was officials -- it was one way of rooting out the corruption. And wanksi shong (ph) had pointed to his

watch, which was sort of like mine, a disposable watch. And he said to me, Hank, you know, I wear this and I forgot I changed the crystal every three

years and the band every year. And I said to him he had me beat because I couldn't figure out how to change the crystal so when the battery goes, I

throw it away and get a new one.

AMANPOUR: All right.

PAULSON: But it's not a joking matter in China, I'll tell you. If you're a member of the Communist Party, you're terrified today if you're doing

something that's corrupt.

AMANPOUR: They certainly are. And it appears that the President Xi is being called the new emperor, endlessly fascinating, Secretary Hank

Paulson, thank you so much for joining us today.

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AMANPOUR: And after a break, it's people payday -- no, not quite what it sounds like. We'll explain. But first celebrating a great American life,

150 years ago, Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth. Lincoln is still revered for saving the Union, freeing the slaves and

making one of the shortest and most powerful speeches in political history, the Gettysburg address.

But today America seems convulsed by the remnants of that deeply ingrained racism of the past. A deputy sheriff in Oklahoma has been charged with

manslaughter after killing an African American allegedly mistaking his pistol for a Taser. This after South Carolina, Ferguson, New York.

Perhaps it's time to take a page from Lincoln's book on unity.

And after a break, women united. Imagine a world where more than half the world's population (INAUDIBLE). They're worth less year in and year out.

That's next.

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AMANPOUR: (INAUDIBLE) imagine a brave new world that we haven't quite come to grips with yet and that is the world in which we live, where women

(INAUDIBLE) percent of households are led by women as the main breadwinners and women are breaking barriers in every field.

And yet they have to contend with unequal pay for equal play. (INAUDIBLE) woman earns (INAUDIBLE) cents to every dollar that her male counterpart

(INAUDIBLE). And today America is marking equal payday, which is the date by which women will have managed to earn what their male colleagues did in

2014, 104 days ago.

(INAUDIBLE)

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HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Here we are at the beginning of the 21st century and women still earn significantly less money than men

for doing the same jobs. Women work full-time year-round to earn just 77 cents for every dollar that a man makes.

And for women of color, it's even less, 67 cents for African American women for every dollar a man makes. And just 56 cents for Latinas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: (INAUDIBLE). But those African American (INAUDIBLE) the world, though, include Russia, where women earn roughly two-thirds of a man's

salary and South Korea, where it's even less than that. Imagine our world where at the current rate most working women won't even live to see the pay

gap closed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's why this Congress still needs to pass a law that makes sure a woman is paid the same as a man

for doing the same work.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: It's 2015. It's time.

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AMANPOUR: Time indeed. So could a female president persuade better that ornery, male-dominated U.S. Congress? We'll wait to see if it happens.

And that is it for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and Twitter.

Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.

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