Return to Transcripts main page

Amanpour

Conservative Party Wins U.K. Election; Scottish Nationalists Post Astounding Triumph; Conservatives Win Majority in Parliament; Labour Suffers Huge Losses in Britain. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 08, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: live from Westminster, after 24 hours of unexpected triumph and political carnage,

major political parties' scalps fell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... resigning as leader of the Liberal Democrats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am standing down as leader of UKIP.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): The surprise, outright victors step forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER, GREAT BRITAIN: The government I led did important work. It laid the foundations for a better future. And now we

must build on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour, live outside the Houses of Parliament as the United

Kingdom reels from the most dramatic political earthquake in decades.

Thursday's unpredictable general election delivered an unexpected outright win for the Conservative Party leader, David Cameron, who's now returned to

Downing Street to begin his second term as prime minister. He's speaking after a meeting with the Queen this afternoon, Mr. Cameron promised to,

quote, "make Great Britain greater still."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON: I truly believe we're on the brink of something special in our country. We can make Britain a place where a good life is in reach for

everyone who is willing to work and do the right thing.

Our manifesto is a manifesto for working people. And as a majority government, we will be able to deliver all of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Mr. Cameron's outright victory means that he won't have to enter into a coalition government with a rival party. His three closest rivals

all suffered a night of brutal and shocking defeats. Those party leaders, including Labour's Ed Miliband, were left with no other choice but to step

down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILIBAND: Earlier today, I rang David Cameron to congratulate him. I take absolute and total responsibility for the results in our defeat in this

election. I'm so sorry for all of those colleagues who lost their seats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: The Labour Party's was the Scottish National Party's gain. They had a triumphant night north of the border, winning an astonishing 56 out

of 59 seats. The Conservatives may have won the most seats down south, but it was by a slim majority. Party Chairman Grant Shapps joined me outside

the Houses of Parliament earlier today to discuss some of the many challenges the party now faces.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Grant Shapps, welcome to the program.

GRANT SHAPPS, CONSERVATIVE PARTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: Chairman of the party, did you even believe when the exit poll came out last night that you practically had a majority from the get-go?

SHAPPS: Well, I won't kid you. I was pleased to see the exit poll, but of course now we know we've done even better than the exit poll. Suggested

we've got the overall majority, at least David Cameron is now back in Downing Street, preparing the government.

AMANPOUR: What happened? Do you need to fire all the pollsters? Or did that 40 percent undecided create a last-minute tsunami? Were they shy

Tories who didn't want to say they weren't voting Tory? What happened?

SHAPPS: Well, I do think there are a lot of people who were genuinely undecided in this election and they were leaving to the last moment.

I met a woman at the polling station in my constituencies, in Hertfordshire, who I overheard her say to a teller, that's somebody

official at the station, I overheard her say I just -- how do I do this? I've never voted before. I pulled her to one side and I said I hope you

don't mind me asking. What caused you to vote? You don't have to tell me how. What's caused you to vote? And she said, I watched the debates.

I've never voted before. But I just suddenly realized this election's really important and there's somebody I didn't want to see at Downing

Street. I thought they would have messed it all up having made all this progress. I guess she was probably the perfect exactly of the way a lot of

Britons felt yesterday, we got this far. Let's not mess it up. Let's not go back to square one. Let's finish the job.

AMANPOUR: All well and good, let's finish the job. But it was, by all accounts, a pretty divisive election. Prime Minister Cameron has come out

today to say, well, let's continue our economic recovery and let's gather the United Kingdom all together and let's be a party for the whole nation.

How do you do that when so many people thought that playing on fears of the SNP and just generally playing on all sorts of divisive, negative

politicking all around, was so prominent in this election?

SHAPPS: Well, I should just point out, for one thing, more people said the Conservatives had a positive campaign and a positive message than for any

other party, so we certainly were trying to tell people what we would do. I'm sure it's one of the reasons people have voted for it.

But the other thing I'd say is that we don't, the SNP (INAUDIBLE) England, (INAUDIBLE) we didn't create the issue where people are voting for the SNP

will now treat them and then Scotland (INAUDIBLE) absolute respect that it deserves. We'll get on with them and we'll get on with running our country

as a single nation, as one nation, to everybody's benefit, including people in Scotland or in England or other parts of our nation.

So every election, of course, is about dividing opinion (ph). That's the whole point of democracy. But that means that afterwards, you do make a

conscious effort (ph) and I think it's right to, to say you will govern for everything. That's what David Cameron's done today.

AMANPOUR: What about the other promise he made towards the end of his Downing Street speech, that I will come forward with the pledges we all

made at the time of the referendum to the three different nations in the United Kingdom, but especially Scotland, I will make it the most evolved

government, including tax and others, in the world?

Many people say, yes, about time. You all fled up there in September and you haven't fulfilled your promises.

Is the pedal to the metal now on that?

SHAPPS: Yes, and actually, by the way, what people said at the time, the leaders from here said in that vow, so-called vow, is that we will create

the draft legislation and publish in the third of the year, which is exactly what we did. But it would be for the next Parliament, i.e., the

one that's going to start today, tomorrow, in order to put that legislation through into law.

So so far it's exactly to the timetable it was described. Now we're going to put it in law. And at the same time, we're going to make sure that

English people and people in other parts of our United Kingdom, Wales and Northern Ireland also get a fair deal, English votes for English laws, for

example, let's make sure we have a balanced constitution that bits our United Kingdom, one of the most successful partnerships in the world as a

nation, let's make sure it continues.

AMANPOUR: Talking about in the world, one of the things the world looks at is whether it will remain a United Kingdom and people, whatever the SNP

says, do not believe or can't trust that they won't seek another referendum, keep seeking independence and one of the challenges for David

Cameron is to keep this United Kingdom.

Can you do that?

SHAPPS: Well, the SNP themselves said this was a decision for a generation. And it seals the issue. It sealed the issue. I -- the SNP

aren't saying --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: How come nobody believes it then?

SHAPPS: -- look, in the end, Scotland will have to decide what it wants to do. But I think you would be wrong to assume that people who voted SNP

yesterday were voting for independence. No, they were voting because they were fed up with the Labour Party in Scotland, who happened to hold nearly

all of those seats.

By the way, we only have one Conservative seat in Scotland. But we held it. So we are unchanged in Scotland as Conservatives. And I think actually

Conservatives will end up providing the real balance in Scotland. You're either, you know, SNP or I think in future perhaps a center right

Conservative.

AMANPOUR: One of the things that Nicola Sturgeon did say is that, yes, this is not a mandate for another referendum or independence unless things

change significantly.

One of the things that could be a significant change is if Great Britain gets out of the E.U. in this in-out referendum, that Prime Minister Cameron

has promised.

That's also a challenge for him, isn't it, to keep Britain in the E.U.? He's being pushed by his right flank, by UKIP, which has actually, you

know, only got one seat; Nigel Farage has resigned.

And now he's had to deliver on this referendum.

Do you think you're going to stay in Europe?

SHAPPS: Yes, look, first of all, the Conservative position, David Cameron's position is we want to renegotiate with Europe. We think

Europe's got too big, too bossy, too interfering. We don't think it's everywhere and actually we're a sovereign nation. We can look after most

of these issues, many of these issues ourselves.

So we have that renegotiation. We'll put the results of that renegotiation to an in-out referendum of the British people by the end of 2017. The

British people can make up their own minds.

AMANPOUR: You all have a big smile on your face today, again, this is an amazing result for you because just a few weeks ago, everybody was talking

about, well, does David Cameron have the fire in his belly? He's already said he's not going to run again.

People were talking about leadership challenges.

What happened? Did he suddenly find the fire in his belly or what?

SHAPPS: I think there are two ways to kind of address that question. First is to say, look, I know David Cameron. He's always got a fire in his

belly. And he's driven by trying to make this country the greatest country it can possibly be. In the last five years, we took it from being as bust

as Greece. Look at Greece now; sadly, they're in the same situation as or worse than they were five years ago. Britain is the fastest growing

economy in the world last year. We have unemployment tumbling. David Cameron has made sure that he's delivered that. You have to have a fire in

your belly to do it. So that's the first thing.

It's a long-term thing and we talked about our long-term economic plan for the next Parliament. It's one of the reasons we do vote on it.

The other thing to say is actually a lot of people didn't make up their minds until the last minute. It was one of those elections where people

wanted to balance all the contending arguments, look at the different leaders, look at the policies and then come to their decisions.

It happened at the last minute. I suppose David Cameron's passion, I'm sure, in the last week or two of that campaign will have helped push people

over the line.

AMANPOUR: And on that note, thanks so much for joining us.

SHAPPS: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: That was Grant Shapps, the chairman of the Conservative Party with me here earlier, and of course that party wasn't the only victor in

Thursday's election.

Eight months after rejecting independence, as we have said, the Scottish people have transformed their Nationalist Party from a minor political

player to virtually the only game in town.

So what does that mean for the U.K.? I speak with a top SNP leader when we come back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX SALMOND, FORMER SCOTTISH FIRST MINISTER: It is an extraordinary statement of intent from the people of Scotland. The Scottish Lion has

roared, transforming across the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

That was Alex Salmond, who's the former Scottish first minister and now an MP here in Westminster. His party's success last night was not as

unexpected as the Conservatives' outright win, but it may have been even more astounding after their failed independence referendum last year, Scots

have almost totally abandoned the Labour Party, which they have so long been loyal.

The Nationalists' increasing their seats in Parliament from just six to 56 out of a total of 59 seats that were being contested. Many had predicted a

hung Parliament, in which the SNP would be kingmaker.

But the Nationalists may have handed victory to their political enemies, the Conservatives, who will now rule with an outright majority. SNP leader

Nicola Sturgeon's right-hand man last night was Humza Yousaf. He's an SNP member of Scotland's parliament and he joins me now here at Westminster.

Well, welcome back to the program.

HUMZA YOUSAF, SNP: Thank you very much.

An amazing night for you.

What do you make of the premise that actually you handed victory to the Tories, who you vowed to lock out of Westminster?

YOUSAF: Well, it's always great to be back on the program and thanks for having us. Really astounding night the SNP's gotten. But I reject the

premise entirely. All you have to do is look at the arithmetic. Even if Labour had won every single seat in Scotland, there would still be far, far

short of what the Conservatives have and far short of a majority. So the collapse is not just in Scotland, of course, the collapse in England, too,

and perhaps that's personified by their big beast, Ed Bowles (ph), now winning his seat.

AMANPOUR: What went through your mind last night when the exit poll came out at 10:00 pm? Polls had closed; immediately it showed this massive

majority for the Conservatives and for you in Scotland? But almost immediately your leader, Nicola Sturgeon, tweeted out that, hold on, huge

caution. I hope to have a good night but 58 seats unlikely.

By the way, we just need to say there's a band of very vocal Lions as Alex Salmond said, roaring out here, some protesters. This is a democracy; they

have their right to shout and we will try to be overheard.

So what went through your mind? Why was she being so cautious then? What did you think you would get?

YOUSAF: No, I was quite cross (ph) and I had also didn't believe this. And as the exit poll came out, I went straight -- I wasn't the only one.

Many people didn't believe it.

So I think we were in for a good night and we always thought we would have a good night. All the polls indicated that. But just put it in a bit of

context, the SNP had six MPs before last night. It's record in its 81-year history is 11 MPs. We were in Glasgow at the time. We have never, in the

SNP, won a single seat in 81 years in Glasgow in a general election. And there came a poll in my face telling me we're going to win 58 seats out of

59. So that's why we urged caution. We were right to do so --

AMANPOUR: Well, you won 56.

YOUSAF: Yes. So we didn't quite reach those gargantuan levels that were perhaps thought --

AMANPOUR: Well, what did you think you would win?

What would be -- what would have been a good night for you?

Where were your expectations?

YOUSAF: Our expectation was to win the election. And that would have been a first for us. So that would have meant (INAUDIBLE) 30-plus seats and I

think we would have been happy with that.

But as the night went on, it was very, very clear from the offset straight away that we were going to do something phenomenal.

AMANPOUR: So let me put it to you again and again and again, the idea of another move towards independence.

Nicola Sturgeon wants David Cameron locked out of power. He is in power.

Do you think you will be the last British prime minister of Great Britain?

YOUSAF: We were very clear, even if we had won 59 out of 59 seats in Scotland, that would not have been a mandate for independence.

The independence referendum took part -- took place 7-8 months ago. That question has been settled. We're not planning another immediate

referendum. We have to get on with the job of how do we represent Scotland's interests best with (INAUDIBLE). It's not going to be exclusive

to CNN International to know that I still believe in independence. Of course, I do. But I have to respect the result, move on; we have 56 MPs

and their job over the next five years will be to stand up for Scotland, something that Labour MPs haven't done. And so they were reject

wholeheartedly.

AMANPOUR: What if the Scots have the Nationalist fervor, your own former leader said the Lion has roared across the country -- Nicola Sturgeon has

said only certain circumstances, if they change substantially, would cause us to think about another referendum.

What would that circumstance be?

What could you imagine it could be?

There is another referendum that's been held out and that is for Europe.

Could that result cause you to change?

YOUSAF: Nicola Sturgeon has said it has to be something that's considerable. It has to be a really considerable change in our

circumstances and taking the E.U. referendum, if Scotland was to vote in that referendum to stay within the E.U., as I hope it certainly would, that

the rest of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union and Scotland was therefore dragged out of the European Union against its will

(ph), would only be catastrophic. I think our businesses would have real issue with that; our economy, of course, would have a real issue with that.

Our educational institutes, our migrant population from Europe would have a huge problem with that. So that would be a change of circumstance where

perhaps the people of Scotland would say actually, you know, that is unacceptable. But we're not planning another referendum. Let me make that

absolutely clear. We've had one last year. We're not planning another one unless there is a demand from the Scottish people. But last night's result

was not a mandate for another referendum. We're here to represent and speak for the people of Scotland and we look forward to doing that for the

next few years.

AMANPOUR: And everybody was talking last night about this incredible victory by a 20-year-old college student, Mhairi Black, against one of the

biggest stalwarts of the Labour Party.

Is 20 years -- is making a big deal about her age, you know, appropriate?

Are you shocked?

I mean, it's the youngest since 1667 in the British Parliament.

YOUSAF: Yes, I mean, I'm only 30 years old, elected as a minister at 27 and already I feel decrepit next to Mhairi Black. She's done phenomenal.

She is a name to look out for in the future. She's hugely talented. She's still got to finish her university dissertation, she told me. Then you

know what, she's going to do that and she's going to be a fantastic representative.

Age is just a number on a piece of paper. I firmly believe that, being one of the youngest members of the Scottish parliament myself. She's going to

be a breath of fresh air, fresh ideas. And just watch out and look out for that name.

AMANPOUR: And one last question very briefly: do you believe what Cameron went out of his way to say today, that on schedule, on the timeline that he

laid out, he will give Scotland devo-max. It will, in his words, be the most devolved parliament, government in history?

YOUSAF: We'll always aim to work constructively with U.K. government. The Scottish voice cannot be ignored; 56 out of 59 MPs, the Conservatives'

mandate was rejected from Scotland. So I'm pleased to hear what David Cameron has had to say. I know him and the first minister have spoken.

Let's see what was on the (INAUDIBLE) work as constructively as we can possibly can within the U.K. government to further Scotland's (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: Humza Yousaf, the SNP, thank you very much indeed for joining us tonight on a big, big day for your party.

And so Scotland did prove to be the graveyard of the Labour Party's hope.

What next from a party that expected so much from this election and that under Prime Minister Tony Blair had an international reputation for

leadership? We hear from two senior figures next.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. As the sun sets on the first new day of a Conservative government, let us take a quick look at some of the

U.K. newspapers.

We see the right-wing tabloid, "The Sun," reveling in the result; "The Independent" showing an overjoyed David Cameron and the front of the left-

leaning "Mirror" mourning, "Five more damned years," it says.

From President Obama to European allies, leaders are congratulating Cameron on his, quote, "impressive win," but as you can imagine, Labour Party

stalwarts like Tony Blair's former spinmeisters, Alistair Campbell, told me today this victory could cost the country in the long run.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISTAIR CAMPBELL, LABOUR PARTY: As a strategist, if you like, you can't sort of reject the fact that the Conservatives have run a campaign and

they've won it, OK? They've got a majority. Yesterday either they all really thought I was going to happen. And I'm not diminishing that in any

way.

But they have done that partly by playing (INAUDIBLE) against Scottish nationalism, which is having this very dangerous procedure in the U.K.

Europe now and a referendum that is going to be massively important within David Cameron's entree, with their very, I think at the moment, pretty

unclear outcome. The economy's still going to be a big challenge.

So I think that they've won the campaign but I think some of this (INAUDIBLE) still to play out. It'll be quite dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So what went wrong for Labour beyond being wiped out in Scotland?

Lord Levy, one of the party's biggest fundraisers told me what it would take for Labour to make a comeback.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Lord Levy, welcome to the program.

What went wrong?

It's been described as a major practically unprecedented catastrophe for Labour.

LORD MICHAEL LEVY, LABOUR PARTY: It was a very, very difficult campaign. Ed Miliband certainly wasn't going to win on charisma and personality. He

tried to win on policy. Not really excuses, but it's very difficult if you want to put forward your policy and your opponent isn't prepared to debate,

like we're sitting here. You're interviewing me, he wasn't prepared to debate on the issues of policy.

In terms of media, the media were completely one-sided for Cameron and against Miliband.

AMANPOUR: OK. I'm going to pick you up on that, Lord Levy, because in fact, why we're all so surprised is because the media followed the polls,

which said dead heat and maybe even Ed Miliband would eke it out.

You've talked about charisma versus policy. But John Reed, former Labour minister in the Blair government actually has said that Ed Miliband was

wrong on every policy from the economy to immigration to just about everything that was on the table.

So is there a problem with where the Labour Party has taken under Ed Miliband?

(CROSSTALK)

LEVY: Let me just say this: first, with David Cameron, has got 37 percent of the vote. It wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement from the British

public. Secondly, let us wait and see what's going to happen with Scotland.

How are we going to get that union together?

And then we have the even equally important or perhaps bigger issue of the European Union.

Are we going to remain part of the European Union?

(CROSSTALK)

LEVY: These are huge challenges. Now did Ed Miliband do everything right? Of course not. I was fortunate. I worked with a prime minister who won

three consecutive elections. I believed in his policy --

AMANPOUR: You mean Blair.

LEVY: -- I absolutely mean Blair. And I believed in his policy of aspiration and compassion. It's that combination I truly believe in.

AMANPOUR: People say Ed Miliband was not the business leader or the candidate for the pro-business that Tony Blair was. And others have said

that actually what happened was a triumph for sort of tribal politics, the politics of identity in this result, and that that needs to somehow be

mitigated.

How do you think Great Britain is going to recover from that and be a united Great Britain again after this divisive election?

LEVY: I think, Christiane, that's going to be the biggest challenge for the new government, for David Cameron as prime minister. How after doing

what they've done with the Scots, there was one embrace them again to really make it truly a United Kingdom? This isn't a football match.

England v. Scotland. This is real -- well, football can be very real. But this is real life. We have to bring Scotland back in into the United

Kingdom.

Scots have to listen to our voice. They have to make up their mind that they really want to be permanently a part of the United Kingdom. That is

crucial. Let's wait and see the reality of what happens.

AMANPOUR: You used to, among other things, a part from being a major fundraiser, you were also Tony Blair's envoy for the Middle East, his

adviser on the Middle East.

It is said that Britain is retreating from the world right now under the last five years of David Cameron, but that actually it was Ed Miliband with

that amazing pullback on the Syria vote in Parliament a couple of years ago, which reset the decks in terms of Britain's place in the world.

How did you assess that?

Was that a mistake to pull Britain back from the kind of humanitarian intervention that Tony Blair used to do?

And I'm not talking about the Iraq War. I'm talking about Kosovo, even Sierra Leone.

LEVY: Well I think when Tony Blair was in power, we had a seat on the world stage. I think under this last Tory government -- and we'll have to

wait and see what happens over this next five-year period, we haven't really had a seat at the top table on the world stage.

I don't think foreign policy has been preeminent, has been a priority in the agenda. I don't want to prejudge what is going to happen over this

ensuring period.

Certainly under Tony's leadership and his prime ministerial time, we really had a place on the stage on that world platform. We haven't had that. And

that's not just to do with the Syria situation. It was a very, very difficult decision.

Do we really put troops on the ground? Do we go in? Look at the mess that's happening in Syria. Look at the mess that is happening in so many

other countries. Look what happened in Libya. We're in a very traumatic time in what is going on around the world.

AMANPOUR: The Middle East, we've just seen Benjamin Netanyahu cobble together one of the most -- they've described it as extreme far right

coalitions. And many people think that anybody who thought that Benjamin Netanyahu was going to make peace and therefore secure a historic legacy

should be disabused of that notion right now.

Do you think that this a recipe for peace and reconciliation between Israel and the Palestinians?

LEVY: Well, cobbled together is probably an exceptionally good phraseology. He has 61 out of a Knesset of 120. It's a very difficult

coalition between his party, Naftali Bennett's party, the two ultra- religious parties and (INAUDIBLE) party. And you've just had a justice minister appointed from Bennett's party and I think her views are very well

known and Lieberman has chosen to go into opposition. I always believe in Israel's security and Israel's right for it's place amongst the nations.

But I do think Israel is going to go into a very difficult period.

(1430 HALF HOUR TO BE COMPLETED)

END