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Amanpour
War Takes Mental Toll on Yemenis; When Satire Is No Joke; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired June 24, 2015 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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FRED PLEITGEN, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: out of sight but certainly traumatizing minds, the psychological toll of the war in Yemen. I speak
with a blogger in Sanaa.
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HISHAM AL-OMEISY, YEMENI POLITICAL AND INFORMATION ANALYST (voice-over): There's a few seconds, split seconds, when the jet is rapidly approaching
and you hear that whoosh sound, that whistling sound of the missile being launched.
And your heart stops for a split second when you think the missile is hitting my home? Near or somewhere else?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Then the President of the United States, well, sort of.
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PLEITGEN (voice-over): Christiane Amanpour speaks with Julia Louis-Dreyfus and the HBO CEO about the power of satire.
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PLEITGEN: Welcome, everybody, and before we begin our regular program, we do have some breaking news that's just into CNN.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, convicted for the 2013 Boston bombings, has just spoken in court in Boston, where he's being sentenced to death.
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PLEITGEN (voice-over): He said he would like to apologize to the victims and survivors of the bombing that left three people dead and more than 260
injured. He said there is no doubt he's guilty. "I am sorry for the lives that I have taken," he said. And more on that later here on CNN. So do
stay tuned.
But first of all, Yemen, the conflict is complicated but the tragedy unfolding is devastatingly clear. Eighty percent of the population needs
aid, says the UN, as Saudi-led airstrikes continue to rain down. The already impoverished nation is suffering massive water shortages; many
people, like this young girl, have no choice but to fill jerry cans at public taps if, indeed, water is available.
There's very little food as well. The empty shelves in this store speak volumes. Saudi Arabia and other Sunni states are supporting the country's
exiled president, Mansour Hadi, by targeting Houthi rebels allegedly backed by Shiite Iran. Peace talks last week didn't even come close to an
agreement; meanwhile, chaos is spreading, allowing groups like Al Qaeda and now even ISIS to flourish.
Now a rare chance to hear from a voice on the ground in Yemen. Hisham al- Omeisy is an activist who's been witnessing and cataloging the war there. He fired up his generator to get power in order to join me via Skype from
Sanaa.
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PLEITGEN: Hisham al-Omeisy, welcome to the program.
AL-OMEISY: Thank you for having me.
PLEITGEN: Hisham, right now, of course, we know is the time of Ramadan. It's a time of reflection. It's a time of prayer. It's a time also, of
course, for celebrations with family.
How is this affecting Ramadan?
And how is the fact that this is going on during Ramadan weighing on the mood even more?
AL-OMEISY: It is taking its toll on us. People were poor before the war. So after three months of war, poverty rates have skyrocketed 40 percent to
50 percent. So after 90 days of blockade the situation is catastrophic. Now that it is Ramadan, coming in a situation that we're living in, I think
that should be (INAUDIBLE) catastrophe, it is taking its toll on us. People have been living on one or two meals a day with basic food on the
table. They cannot even afford it. The gas prices have quadrupled. During the night, they have to go to bed really early. Even if you want to
fire up your backup generators, there's no gas for those generators. So it's pitch-black dark during the nights. People don't have travel into the
streets because there's no gas. There's no food to put -- to be put on the table. So you have people going hungry, early to bed, in the dark, just to
wake up next day and continue fasting. So it's actually very sad.
PLEITGEN: You know, one of the things that anybody who's ever lived through or had to live through an air campaign will know is that it's not
just the fact that these airstrikes are happening that really gets to people, especially if it goes on as long as it's been going on here. It's
the fact that you hear the airplanes in the air. You don't know when you could be hit.
How much of a psychological toll is this taking on people and especially of course children?
AL-OMEISY: You actually said it pretty well. That is our biggest fear.
[14:05:00] There's a few seconds, split seconds, when the jet is rapidly approaching and you hear that whoosh sound, that whistling sound of the
missile being launched. And your heart stops for a split second when you think the missile is hitting my home? Near or somewhere else? And that
takes -- that takes its toll on you psychologically, especially if you have children inside the house, when everybody for that split second holds their
breath and your heart skips a beat. And they hear the explosion; even though the explosion is earth-shaking, still it's a relief because it did
not hit you. It hit somewhere else.
PLEITGEN: One of the things that the Saudis, of course, are saying is that they're conducting this air campaign to bring back what they say is the
rightful president of the country.
Do you think that most Yemenis would say that?
What is the standing of President Hadi at this point?
AL-OMEISY: Hadi lacks public support on the ground. He lacks public support to begin with. He was not elected. He was appointed president
through agreements between the political factions. So with the people, he enjoys zero popularity. Now that he is actually spearheading this campaign
against his own people, his popularity not just plummeted; it's actually in the negative now. When the Saudi-led coalition still insists that they can
bring him back, they're actually dreaming. So basically he can never come back into Yemen.
PLEITGEN: One of the things that the international community is very worried about is the social fabric of Yemen, because we know that as
conflicts like this drag on, even though people might not admit at the beginning, at some point it starts hurting the very social fabric and
endangering the stability of the country.
Where are we in that, in Yemen?
AL-OMEISY: We've seen a lot of people becoming more eccentric (ph), more - - for instance, in the south, they're calling for secession of the south. They're thinking in terms of distinct identity of their own tribes, of
their own regions. They're no longer speaking in terms of Yemen as a whole. It's Yemen as specific tribal factions, specific geographic area.
So it's being torn apart.
PLEITGEN: What do you think needs to be done to stop all this? I mean, surely it would have to start with a cease-fire, probably an immediate one,
and but then there needs to be a reconciliation process and there needs to be obviously from what you're saying, new political leadership.
AL-OMEISY: Very true. That is actually what we need. That is last sentence that you mentioned is exactly what we need. We need a united
front, a new leadership, some leadership that people would throw their hands behind that leadership that could bring the people together.
Previously Yemen has been -- they had various cultures in Yemen, various tribal faction of confederats. They have distinct identities. They have
distinct histories.
What brought us together was a united leadership. We lack that right now. What we need right now is a cease-fire to begin with, so that fighting
would stop.
PLEITGEN: Hisham al-Omeisy, thank you for joining the program.
AL-OMEISY: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: So certainly a dire situation there.
And after a break, we have some lighter conversation for you but still a very strong message. The importance of political satire in a world
cracking down on free speech. An interview with Julia-Louis Dreyfus, the commander in chief of poking fun at power -- that's next.
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PLEITGEN: Hello and welcome back.
Political satire, despite its comedy, is often no laughing matter. Many comedians are languishing in jail or even face corporal punishment just for
laughing at power.
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PLEITGEN (voice-over): One of those laughing long and loud and strong is actress Julia Louis-Dreyfus, originally catapulted to fame as Elaine in
"Seinfeld." She's now making waves in a political comedy, "Veep," as vice president and later President Selina Mayer. Our chief international
correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, sat down with Dreyfus and HBO's CEO, Richard Plepler. HBO is a sister company of CNN and the event in Cannes
was hosted by our parent company, TimeWarner.
The topic: "Political Satire: The Future of TV."
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: I want to start first with you, Julia, because this is about satire and it is being said that satire is doing more
than even news could to move the dial these days, certainly in the United States and as we've seen around much of the world. We'll talk a little bit
about that.
But Dan Pfeiffer, who was one of President Obama's closest advisers, who's recently left the White House, he wrote about all the current TV politician
news shows. And he said the following, "'Veep' is the most authentic because it understands the three most important things about life in
Washington: the humanity, the banality and the absurdity."
"Veep" gets the absurdity of today's politics.
Is that right?
JULIA LOUIS-DREYFUS, ACTOR: Yes. I -- that's our -- that's our hope and desire, certainly. Yes, "Veep" is a show about the process of politics.
It's not about partisan politics. It's really about the process and the human behavior behind that process.
RICHARD PLEPLER, CEO, HBO: I think one of the incredible marks of the show's success -- people in Washington now in the executive branch, in
Congress, they refer to themselves as the characters -- or they point to other people as the characters in the show and say, there's a Jonah.
There's a Dan. There's a Kent. That's really become part of the language and conversation in Washington, which is a tremendous testament to the show
and to the way the show has kind of come into the cultural conversation.
AMANPOUR: Ted's put up the first of the clips we're going to show, the bus tour -- they'll put it up -- when you were on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO CLIP, "VEEP")
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LOUIS-DREYFUS: And that's, of course, that was Hugh Laurie, who plays the vice presidential candidate alongside me.
AMANPOUR: But it's absurd on so many levels, I mean, hogging the camera. I mean --
LOUIS-DREYFUS: But how is that absurd? Give me a break. What are you talking about, that you don't see -- people in politics love standing in
front of cameras. All -- it's the business of selling a brand and they're selling it.
AMANPOUR: This is about a female president who has her male vice presidential candidate. Has "Veep" -- have some of these shows actually
been prescient?
I mean, are they ahead of the curve?
LOUIS-DREYFUS: The pilot episode of this show now four years ago, Selina Meyer's agenda was to green up the federal buildings on Capitol Hill. A
few months after that, Nancy Pelosi tried to do exactly the same thing and was skewered for doing it by the -- by the right wing.
[14:15:09]
Last year we had a whole episode devoted to Selina having to disclose all of her emails, all of them. And then she tried to withhold partial full
disclosure. And then of course we saw what has been happening now with Hillary Clinton.
AMANPOUR: Advance warning, I know.
LOUIS-DREYFUS: Yes.
PLEPLER: The other thing they do that I think is so smart and so pitch- perfect is they're able to take on issues that are part of the political conversation -- gun control, abortion, political campaign finance. And
they do it in a way that somehow really punctuates the hypocrisy behind the political discussion at the moment and yet they do it in a way which is an
equal opportunity offender.
So nobody's able to say that's a liberal show; that's a conservative show. And I think that's part of the genius of the acting and part of the genius
of the writing.
AMANPOUR: Well, you mentioned gun control and let's all be frank. This conversation is taking place against the backdrop of a terrible crime, a
hate crime that took place in the United States last week and has, once again, opened up this endless debate about gun control.
I do want to actually play, since we've perfectly set it up, a part of a program where guns was on the menu. Let's play it and we'll talk about it.
(VIDEO CLIP, "VEEP")
AMANPOUR: What about the politics of it? What do you actually try to say if anything?
PLEPLER: First and foremost, we're trying to entertain. And we're trying to -- we've -- we're always comfortable with the idea that smart and fun
don't have to be mutually exclusive. And we're not setting out -- when this was pitched to us, nobody sat back and said, oh, fantastic; we have a
way to skewer the American political system. We sat back and said, this is an incredibly talented group of people who have something to say about the
silliness and hypocrisy of American politics. It's non-partisan. They're great storytellers. You have one of the great comedic actors working
today, who's going to participate. That's a no-brainer for us.
AMANPOUR: Women have somewhat of a hard time in politics, you know, making the numbers in Hollywood. Let me read a couple of statistics.
Female characters made up just 12 percent of protagonists in the top 100 domestic grossing films of last year, of 2014. And you have just
participated in a very hilarious sketch -- which we're not going to play -- with Amy Schumer and Tina Fey, the comedian, and Patricia Arquette, where
you're talking about basically women past their prime. And --
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LOUIS-DREYFUS: Well, to be specific, it was a woman becoming un (INAUDIBLE) past a certain date.
(LAUGHTER)
AMANPOUR: I just wanted you to say it.
LOUIS-DREYFUS: I know you did. And I'm happy to have said it.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
LOUIS-DREYFUS: (INAUDIBLE).
AMANPOUR: And please go and look it up on YouTube. It is hilarious.
But what does that mean? I mean what it basically indicates is what Maggie Gyllenhaal said, "I'm 37 and I was told recently I was too old to play the
lover of a man who was 55.
"It was astonishing to me. It made me feel bad and then it made me feel angry and then it made me laugh."
Does it make you feel any of those?
LOUIS-DREYFUS: Yes, it's infuriating. There is a tremendous inequity in Hollywood and in politics and I would say globally, you know, it's --
you've got -- it's challenging to be a woman and to succeed. And there's a lot of fun to be made of it. And in so doing, perhaps you can move the
needle a little bit.
AMANPOUR: I just wanted to ask you and bring it back very seriously, but about satire, do you think American satire -- Jon Stewart, et cetera -- has
had an effect because you have Bassem Youssef, who's been called the Jon Stewart of Egypt, and he's been shut down by their authoritarian
government.
You've actually got satirists all over the Internet, speaking in the Arab language, taking down or trying to take down ISIS by humor. And it is
actually spreading quite a lot in some of the more authoritarian --
(CROSSTALK)
PLEPLER: There was a piece in "The Times" two days ago, I think, about a Gazan humorist, who was looking literally to poke fun at Hamas through
satire. And of course the big question was, would he be allowed to remain on the Internet inside the territory.
So I think the United States has very much led the way in that category and open up and shows the strength of our democracy.
[14:20:03] AMANPOUR: Chairman and CEO of HBO, Richard Plepler, thank you very much.
Actress-comedian extraordinaire Julia Louis-Dreyfus, thank you very much indeed.
And thank you all.
(APPLAUSE)
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PLEITGEN: Very good and very important discussion there. And culture of a different kind under attack -- when we come back, we look at Afghanistan's
hidden Buddhist treasures. I speak to the man trying to save. That's next.
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PLEITGEN: And finally tonight, it is another disaster for the world's cultural heritage as ISIS has destroyed ancient Muslim shrines in Palmyra
in Syria. There, in Iraq and Libya and in Afghanistan, historic treasures are under threat from radicals. But in one place in rural Afghanistan,
it's actually economic development that's threatening a Buddhist heritage site.
The place is called Mes Aynak. It's about 2,000 years old, hardly excavated and holds a wealth of statues, temples and other artifacts. But
beneath the site lie huge copper reserves worth of tens of billions of dollars.
A Chinese state-owned mining company bought the rights to exploit the copper in 2007. Filmmaker Brent Huffman spent four years documenting the
work at Mes Aynak and trying to save it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: Brent Huffman, thank you for joining the program. And first of all, the question is, Logar province, and especially that part of Logar
province, is a pretty barren piece of land. Most motorists that go through that area try to get through as fast as possible.
Were you surprised at how untouched it was but also how elaborate it was as well?
BRENT HUFFMAN, DIRECTOR, "SAVING MES AYNAK": Yes. I was shocked. It was a very Indiana Jones kind of experience. We drove out into Taliban country
just to see the site. Immediately the Afghan archeologist welcomed me and wanted to show me around.
And I really -- I found the site to be absolutely awe-inspiring, very much like a Machu Picchu or a Pompeii, just a sprawling, epic city with over 600
life-sized or larger Buddha statues, temples, dozens of temple structures, this enormous circular complex.
So I was pretty blown away, to say the least.
PLEITGEN: Something like that, you would think that an excavation would take years and then this would become probably a tourist attraction if
Afghanistan ever gets to that state.
[14:25:05] But right now what people are talking about is trying to save the place, at least for a little while, before these companies go in there.
How big is the threat?
HUFFMAN: The threat is pretty enormous and the threat comes not only from this Chinese government-owned company but it also comes from the threat of
looters, the threat of instability in the region. There is only a skeleton crew of archeologists working at the site right now.
So unfortunately, there's a kind of perfect storm of threat happening in different ways at Mes Aynak. The threat of complete demolition of this
site, though, is the most pressing one. And now is really the time to take action.
PLEITGEN: There's very few people who know what a rich cultural heritage Afghanistan actually has. And it was only really with the destruction of
the Buddhas in Bamiyan that people realized that there was this strong Buddhist heritage there as well.
How important is Mes Aynak in all that?
HUFFMAN: Mes Aynak is extremely important in painting that picture of the incredible Buddhist heritage in the country. Shockingly, the way in 2001
that the Buddhas of Bamiyan were blown up, were detonated, the destruction of Mes Aynak would look exactly the same, the -- you know, the big
explosion of the site.
Tragically, only about 10 percent of the -- of Mes Aynak is -- has been excavated, so a very small amount.
PLEITGEN: What do you think could be a realistic way of protecting the site, allowing Afghanistan to have its economic development that it needs,
but also, of course, providing the security that these archeologists need to do their work?
HUFFMAN: Maybe the easiest way is to mine in a different way. You know, the copper mining doesn't have to destroy the entire site. It doesn't have
to be open pit-style copper mining, which as we talked about, is extremely environmentally destructive as well as it would destroy the whole site.
Potentially a win-win scenario, but it would need a strong Afghan government. It would need oversight. It would need regulation. It would
need environmental protection. As you said, it would need significant security as well to make it work. But I'm very hopeful that that can be
achieved.
PLEITGEN: Brent Huffman, thank you for joining the program.
HUFFMAN: Thank you. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: Certainly very much worth watching. And on July 1st, next week, the film will be free online for anyone in Afghanistan to watch;
afterwards, the director, Brent Huffman, will travel to Kabul to petition President Ashraf Ghani directly in the hope that this priceless piece of
the country's heritage may yet be saved.
That's it for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me Twitter @FPleitgenCNN. Thank
you for watching and good night from London.
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