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Iran Reached Deal after Months of Talks; The Future of a Nuclear Relationship; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: breakthrough in Vienna. The United States and Iran hail a historic deal to curb Iran's

nuclear program in return for lifting sanctions. Both President Obama and President Rouhani address their nations and each other's.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This deal meets every single one of the bottom lines that we established when we achieved a framework

earlier this spring. Every pathway to a nuclear weapon is cut off.

HASSAN ROUHANI, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I announce to our dear nation that their prayers have come true. Today we are at a critical

and important juncture in the history of our country.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): My interviews with the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, the Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif and the man who will verify

all of this, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour, live in Vienna, where a new era has begun in relations

between Iran and the world powers, hammered out over weeks in this building behind me, which is now mostly empty; all the delegations are going and

Secretary Kerry is wheeled up back to Washington.

But a deal has finally been struck that legitimizes although limits Iran's nuclear program in return for lifting crippling sanctions on the country.

It's been more than a decade in the making but reaching agreement seemed unthinkable before the Rouhani and Obama administrations. The Iranians

have been on tenterhooks awaiting this moment.

And of course the potential for a better life at home and better relations with the rest of the world. But there are also powerful skeptics and

opponents, from hardliners in Iraq, in the United States and in Israel, who could still derail it.

So as the ink was drying, I sat down separately with both chief negotiators, Iran's foreign minister, Javad Zarif, and first, the U.S.

Secretary of State John Kerry. As big a deal as this is, both agreed the devil would be in the implementation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Secretary Kerry, thank you for joining us.

Have you made history?

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, people call it an historic agreement, I guess because Iran has come to the table and on paper we have

an agreement.

But we don't have anything until this is implemented. We have the -- I mean, we have an outline. And so I think it's a strong line. I think it's

a great possibility. But as I said in my comments today, it's the implementation of this that will really be the measure.

AMANPOUR: What about the selling of it before even it gets implemented?

How difficult will that be?

KERRY: Well, there are people who regrettably have just automatically politically decided I'm going to oppose this. And without even knowing or

reading the agreement, without knowing all the terms of it, they're opposed to it. And there are people who have decided -- many of them -- that you

just shouldn't deal with Iran.

But they don't offer an alternative. While we did that in the years 2000 until Obama came in, guess what? Their program went from 164 centrifuges

to 19,000. Their enrichment stockpile reached a level over 10,000 kilograms where they had enough fissile material to make 10 bombs.

Is that safer? Is that what people want to go back to? Or do they want to go just straight to war?

AMANPOUR: Do you think --

KERRY: They have an obligation. People have an obligation to define what's the alternative. You're not going to sanction them into oblivion.

They've proven that. We've seen that in the last years.

Sanctions brought them to the table to negotiate. They did the very thing everybody put the sanctions in place to get them to do, which is negotiate.

So they negotiated.

Now measure the agreement to see whether or not it achieves what we need to in terms of insight, restraint, accountability and so forth. That's what

we should be doing.

AMANPOUR: The E.U. chief, Federica Mogherini, said this is not just a deal, it's a good deal.

What do you say to those who say, well, OK. It's restricted them for 10 years and 15 and 25 depending on various issues.

What about after that? Are you confident that they don't rush to start up again? Or is that for a future generation?

KERRY: Well, I can't make any promise about long-term future of anybody, including the United States, as actions or choices, for any future

president, obviously.

But in life, you have to bet on and in diplomacy and in conflict, you have to --

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KERRY: -- set up a structure and try to live by it and put it to the test. We negotiated with the Soviet Union. We negotiated with Red China. We

negotiated for years with people we deemed to be the archenemy.

And without any trust, we put restraints in our nuclear programs or came to understandings. Could you sit there and say you knew exactly what would

happen 20 -- no, of course not.

But you try to shape that behavior through the choices you make and the things you put in place. We know to a certainty what this will do. We

also know -- we know, Christiane, that we have unprecedented access through this in terms of verification.

So, yes, they get to do more in the out years. That's their right as they clean up -- supposedly -- and become an NPT good standing country.

Remember, during all of this time, Iran never pulled out of the non- proliferation treaty. They could have. They could have said to hell with you; we'll do our own thing.

They've lived by the NPT. They're living by it now. And they -- well, they say they're living by it now. They haven't lived by it completely,

which is why we put the sanctions on them. So now we're putting to task whether or not there's a change of heart, a change of mind, a change of

direction and if there isn't, we have every option available to us, every day, that we have right now.

AMANPOUR: Personally, how do you feel? You've been in pain. You've been on crutches. You said that you wore a first pair of shoes in days because

we saw you wearing sneakers. One of your opposite numbers, the Iranian chief of atomic energy, also has been very ill.

How has it been personally cooped up in that Palais Coburg for all these days and weeks and months?

KERRY: Well, we all thought we were living "Groundhog Day." I mean, we really felt stir-crazy and constrained. But motivated by the importance of

the opportunity and by the seriousness of the subject, obviously.

AMANPOUR: Final question: is this a strategic realignment? You talked about Red China. You talked about the Soviet Union. You seem, this

administration, to be saying this is more than about a nuclear deal or potentially it could redefine the balance of power and your relations in

the Middle East.

KERRY: Well, it has the possibility of doing that. And you heard President Rouhani suggest that and you heard Foreign Minister Zarif suggest

that. It would be stupid diplomatically, it would be diplomatic malfeasance and (INAUDIBLE) if you ignored exploring a possibility.

Now we haven't done that yet. We exclusively negotiated a nuclear deal because we knew that if we got into the other issues, you would never get

to the nuclear deal. So an Iran without a nuclear weapon, Christiane, I think you know this as a matter of common sense, is better to deal with

than an Iran with one.

For those who are worried about Iran's behavior in the region, we are better off pushing back or dealing with that behavior if they're not on a

path to get one and we believe we are clearly demonstrating a way in which they cannot get a nuclear weapon.

AMANPOUR: Secretary John Kerry, thank you very much indeed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So right after sitting down with John Kerry, I came back here to the Palais Coburg and sat down with his opposite number, Javad Zarif. Now

there has been so many reports of frayed tempers and even some shouting. Both admitted to me that did happen during the negotiations. But at the

end of those arguments, at the end of each day, they went away with a smile on their faces and renewed commitment.

Here now is what I asked Foreign Minister Javad Zarif.

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AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister Zarif, welcome. Thank you.

JAVAD ZARIF, FOREIGN MINISTER, IRAN: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: Did you make history today?

ZARIF: Well, I hope so. History is made by good decisions that are implemented. I think we adopted a good decision. I think it's good for

all. It's now time to implement it. But more importantly than that, if you want to make history today, this has to be the foundation of the city,

for building on something that can impact great a several-year-old misperception, unnecessary crisis so that we can deal with the real crises

that are affecting all of us.

AMANPOUR: Iran has always called the United States the great Satan. And now you're making a deal with the United States, the great Satan. Some are

already saying that it's a surrender.

How will you sell it back home?

ZARIF: Well, are we, first of all, have an agreement with P5+1 or E3+3, as the Europeans like to call it. It's not with the United States. But the

United States is an important part of this -- was an important part of this process. And it is, in our view, a good agreement.

Any agreement includes compromise. We have, in fact --

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ZARIF: -- accepted some limitations and -- in reciprocation of -- for our acceptance of those limitations, we received quite a lot of benefit.

Neither side was prepared to provide the flexibility that has now led us to this agreement.

If you look at the fact that now Iran has a nuclear program, an enrichment program, a heavy water reactor, an R&D program, it completes nuclear

peaceful because it was always peaceful, nuclear program. That two years ago people thought would never be accepted by any of the major powers. Now

I'm happy that these people have come to the conclusion that the old way didn't work, that imposition, coercion for eight years on this issue, 30-

some years on other issues, has produced nothing.

And two years of diplomacy has produced an agreement of peace.

AMANPOUR: What do you say to those who will take precisely what you've just told me about all that you've gained under this agreement and they'll

say, well, you know what, it's only 10 years and then they can do whatever they want. Sure, they'll go for this agreement.

ZARIF: Well, the fact is that if people were worried about the Iran's nuclear ambitions, those ambitions were always peaceful. So last year it

was peaceful; 10 years ago it was peaceful. Ten years from now it will be peaceful. They shouldn't worry about that. Iran's interests in

maintaining a nuclear weapons-free region is paramount. We believe that nuclear weapons do not augment our security and that is a very serious

sober political analysis but founded in our religious beliefs.

Don't forget that we were the victims of chemical weapons during the Iran- Iraq War and we had the capability to use them. But we never did. These are principles, fundamental principles on which we operate. So if they

want to close four pathways to a bomb or 40 pathways to a bomb, they can close them all because we do not want the pathway to the bomb.

AMANPOUR: What do you say about this is not trust, this is verify and the bottom line will be what the IAEA says?

How do you square what President Obama and Secretary Kerry say, which is 24/7, anywhere, anytime inspections? And what you say, which is no, it's

not anywhere, anytime?

ZARIF: I'll just ask them to go read the deal.

AMANPOUR: So what is it?

ZARIF: The deal is that we accepted an international mechanism that is there -- it actually provides 24/7 access to nuclear facilities. We have

had that in the past. It's interesting that, over the past 10 years, Iran has been visited more often than any other country, probably in some years

with the exception of Japan. But in the last 3-4 years, Iran even exceeded Japan in the times -- time of visits that the IAEA made to Iran in order to

search Iran, to see whether we had any undeclared nuclear program and they didn't find any. For the past 10 years, the IAEA has looked everywhere in

Iran. Of course, we were not a member of the initial protocol; two years of that, we were. But eight years we were not a member of additional

protocol. But IAEA has inspected and inspected and inspected and they didn't find any indication of nuclear weapons activity. And we believe

that another 10 years of inspection by the IAEA will produce the same result because we are not interested in nuclear weapons.

AMANPOUR: And what about the military sites?

ZARIF: First of all, it's not military sites. It's undeclared facilities. Undeclared facilities can be anywhere. Managed access is a term used by

the additional protocol and we are working within an international mechanism. And we have agreed to a certain procedures in order to address

disputes arising --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: -- what you may have done in the past.

ZARIF: That is a different deal. We already agreed with the Secretary General Amano and the IAEA to have an outline of what we need to do

together in order to address those.

We believe those are basically groundless allegations that have been made against us, primarily by Israel, which is the most -- the single most

important threat to the non-proliferation regime in the world because it possesses many, in some estimates 200 nuclear warheads.

AMANPOUR: Are you prepared for the IAEA to find that maybe you did have some tinkering around with a military nuclear experiments?

ZARIF: Well, I'm not prepared for the IAEA to find out because that will be a lie.

AMANPOUR: How do you square what the leader said, which is no access and no anytime anyplace --

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AMANPOUR: -- with what's now being called managed access to certain sites?

ZARIF: We've said very clearly that our military sites are off limits. We are prepared to cooperate with the IAEA and we have now a program to

cooperate and I think if you read the agreement, annex 1 of the agreement, it's clearly written that these -- the attempts to verify possible

undeclared activity are not designed or are not aimed at military or other secrets of Iran or any other country. This is well established in the text

and I believe we will be living up to our commitment. But according to the agreement, not to people's illusions.

AMANPOUR: I mean, everybody's been saying what's in it for them. Why is this good for Iran?

ZARIF: Well, we wanted to change the nature of our relationship with the West. We didn't believe that it was good for Iran and the West, while we

have common threats and common challenges in our region, to be basically entrenching ourselves in a non-issue, in an unnecessary crisis, in a

fabricated crisis that has been created for over the past almost decade or more. And I think it was important to move away from that. And that was

the promise of President Rouhani's platform elections, to engage in constructively with the rest of the world. And I believe that's important.

Of course, we want to get rid of sanctions because they are an imposition on our population and, in fact, in times, inhuman burden on the Iranian

people and we have a responsibility to try to remove it. But maintaining our dignity and our rights.

AMANPOUR: So this was the P5+1 and you. What has it been like personally to sit here and negotiate with all these top world powers and there's just

you on the other side?

ZARIF: Well, it requires some confidence in the resistance of the Iranian people to pressure. The Iranian people are very forgiving and very kind

and civilized people. But they don't like pressure. They are allergic to pressure. And representing a people who are allergic to pressure gives you

the confidence and the strength to deal with world powers.

AMANPOUR: Foreign Minister, thank you very much indeed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So you've just heard from both the main chief negotiators of this deal and just ahead we stay with the deal at hand. The director

general of the IAEA on verifying this historic accord -- that's next.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

And we are live from Vienna, where a landmark nuclear deal between Iran and six world powers has finally been signed. And we've just heard from the

two main political players. And now the U.N. nuclear monitoring agency, the IAEA, will have to verify the process. And Director General Yukiya

Amano is here with me, live and exclusively to explain this massive task.

First of all, welcome to the program.

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AMANPOUR: Very important for us to have you here tonight because you've heard what both sides have said in terms of verifying and the tough

implementation going forward. So is it 24/7, anytime, anyplace?

Tell us what you have to do to verify this.

YUKIYA AMANO, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY: Today we reached agreement on two very important agreement. One is the

comprehensive agreement and another is on the road map. I think you are talking about the comprehensive agreement. And important thing of this

agreement is that it will allow us to implement the additional protocol which is a very important verification tool. It's a very powerful tool.

AMANPOUR: What does it let you do? Where does it let you go?

AMANO: In short, the additional protocol will give us more information and access right. We receive very detailed declaration from Iran, more

extensive and more in-depth. We verify it and when we find the need to review that document or visit the location, then we can request another

visit.

This is called complimentary access and this can be done in a managed manner.

AMANPOUR: Now is this to nuclear sites? Or is this to military sites?

AMANO: This is nuclear -- to the nuclear site and the objective is to achieve our technical objective. But this nuclear site could be in a

military location. Therefore, our interest is not the military sites other for or as such but our focus in on nuclear activities.

AMANPOUR: You heard those two interviews. To your mind as the technical verifier of all of this -- and you've seen all the paperwork and the

agreements -- is there a difference between what the United States is saying you will, unprecedented, thorough, comprehensive inspections, and

what Iran says you'll do?

AMANO: No, I don't think so. The IAEA is a technical organization and we forecast known facts. We have -- we will soon implement this powerful

verification tool, additional protocol, and in that process we'll implement it in accordance with the IAEA verification practice. We are implementing

it in 120 countries and we apply the same standard to all the countries, including Iran.

AMANPOUR: Now you signed something different, but related. You signed a road map today with Iran's chief of the atomic agency there. It was about

trying to find out past military activity.

Is that correct?

AMANO: Yes. Today I signed a road map with the vice president of Iran, Mr. Salehi. The objective of this agreement, road map, is to clarify the

issues with possible military dimension, both past and current issues. This is a very robust process because it establishes clear timetable and

identifies measures like expert technical meetings (ph).

AMANPOUR: Will that be difficult?

And do you suspect contrary to what Mr. Zarif told me, do you suspect that they have had military applications, military experimentation, any kind of

military dimension to their nuclear program?

AMANO: Again, we are focusing on facts and the step is -- the first step is to ask questions on issues. We are focusing on issues. Then we receive

the explanation in writing from Iran and we engage in other substantiation process.

AMANPOUR: So perhaps a better way of asking the question is you've tried to do this for years.

Are you saying now you're confident that you will be able to do it under this new agreement?

Do you feel that somehow everything's changed and you will get those answers?

AMANO: I have a number of reasons to believe that this process and the road map will be implemented in an orderly manner.

Why? Because we have established a very clear timetable. We have identified measures. And more importantly, Iran has a strong incentive to

implement this road map.

AMANPOUR: And if you were to give a status report right now, do they have a clean bill of health when it comes to your particular issues of where you

have been inspecting and the questions you want answered?

What's outstanding?

AMANO: (INAUDIBLE). And this is like a jigsaw puzzle. We have some understanding of the issues. But we need to cover all the areas and that

are identified in my 2011 report.

And after having a good understanding of the whole picture --

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AMANO: -- we'll assess and provide the final assessment before the 15th of December this year.

AMANPOUR: So that's not too long away. I mean, that's, OK, several months. It's half a year away.

But people are saying this is a massive job.

Do you have the personnel? Do you have everything you need to get this done, not just the first report to the 15th of December, but beyond to keep

this verification process up?

AMANO: The road map implementation is for some months. But after that, we have a very important task to implement the comprehensive agreement that we

reached agreement today. I am very confident that we can discharge our responsibility because we have very well trained professional inspectors.

And we have a very robust clarification process and additional protocol.

AMANPOUR: What is your biggest worry, challenge ahead?

AMANO: Well, I would have to make a very good plan and of course we need fund.

AMANPOUR: Funding?

AMANO: Yes.

AMANPOUR: You don't think you're not going to get the funding for this after all of this, do you?

AMANO: I'm content that we can get fund but we need the fund to implement.

AMANPOUR: And historically, what does today mean in the historic nature of the world and various nuclear powers, because let's face it, this agreement

has legitimized Iran as a nuclear power, correct, as a nuclear energy power. Is that correct?

That's what they're saying, legitimize our nuclear program.

AMANO: I would say that this is the solution of the problem in a diplomatic manner. I became the director general of the IAEA in 2009 and

I'm committed to resolve this issue through diplomatic means. I provided my assessment. I have identified the 12 areas to be clarified. And now we

have two important agreements to resolve this issue.

So this is a very good opportunity, historical opportunity, to resolve the issue through diplomatic means.

AMANPOUR: So many more questions. But thank you very much, Yukiya Amano, director general of the IAEA, thank you very much indeed.

AMANO: Thank you very much for inviting me.

AMANPOUR: Thank you so much.

And when we come back, we imagine the home of these talks -- Vienna, of course -- a city filled with history of diplomacy and vision -- after this.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, today we've seen a deal that could be potentially world-shaping. It took place in no small part thanks to the

host city, Vienna.

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AMANPOUR: And it's not a first for Austria's capital. Two hundred years ago the Congress of Vienna gathered leaders from across Europe to redraw

the borders and change the face of history, creating a model that was followed by the League of Nations and then the United Nations more than a

century later.

Today, we can imagine a world where the famed city has helped build a historic deal once again. The Austrian capital providing its scenic Palais

Coburg behind me as a home for the negotiators and their balcony diplomacy as well, which amounted to often keeping reporters happy with deliveries of

thousands of Viennese chocolates and beyond the sweets and the sweeping vistas, the city that inspired, of course, the music of Mozart and the art

of Klimt.

Now it will carry the name of an accord that's the first concrete step to chipping away at a wall of mistrust

And that is it for our program tonight. And remember that you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and

Twitter. Thank you for watching and goodbye from Vienna.

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