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Survivor Reflects on Hiroshima Bombing; Nuclear History Rife with Near Misses; Oceanographer Predicted MH370 Debris Path; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 06, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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FRED PLEITGEN, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: 70 years since the world's first atomic bomb attack: a warning from a Hiroshima survivor.

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MIYAKE NOBUO, HIROSHIMA SURVIVOR (through translator): We keep calling for these nuclear weapons to be abolished as soon as possible.

Otherwise, we think it will lead to the destruction of mankind.

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PLEITGEN (voice-over): Also ahead: the oceanographer who predicted the debris from MH370 would hit Reunion Island and where he believes the

rest of the plane might be found.

And later, hello, is that the International Space Station? The radio enthusiast who managed to make contact with the ISS from his garden shed.

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PLEITGEN: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Fred Pleitgen, sitting in for Christiane tonight.

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PLEITGEN (voice-over): This scene, forever etched into our collective memory, shows the moment a U.S. aircraft dropped an atomic bomb over

Hiroshima. It vaporized buildings and cars and trees and killed scores instantly. Across Japan, people observed a minute of silence, remembering

what happened on this day 70 years ago.

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PLEITGEN: The bombing and the second one that followed three days later in Nagasaki are often credited with bringing the Second World War to

an end. But it's estimated that at least 80,000 perished in the immediate aftermath of the Hiroshima explosion and the death toll continued to rise

over the years.

Over 100,000 more died from radiation sickness and cancer, but some did survive against all odds.

Miyake Nobuo was just 16 years old when the atomic bomb fell on Hiroshima. Now aged 86, he's one of the last survivors from that day and a

long-time campaigner for nuclear disarmament.

He joined me earlier from Hiroshima -- and a warning: some of the following video contains scenes some viewers might find disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: Mr. Miyake, welcome to the program. And first of all, I'd like you to tell our viewers what you were doing on that morning of August

the 6th, 1945, when the bomb was dropped.

MIYAKE (through translator): The morning of the 6th of August, I was 1.8 kilometers from the epicenter on a streetcar. It was full of people

and I was quite short in amongst all those people.

And then there was a huge flash that ran through the ceiling. I was shocked. I thought maybe the streetcar had short-circuited and maybe I'd

been electrocuted. Without thinking, I jumped off. At that moment, there was a huge bang, a blast from above, and I was knocked to the ground. I'd

been directly hit by the bomb and I thought that was the end of me. But I was still conscious.

I opened my eyes slightly. But everything was black and I couldn't see anything. All of the houses around me had been destroyed. But I

couldn't even see because of all the dust blocking out the sunlight.

I lay at the side of the road for a time. After a while, the dust settled and when I opened my eyes slightly, I could see many people covered

in burns coming from the direction of the city center.

PLEITGEN: What were the scenes like in the immediate aftermath? You say that there were people with burns. What were these people doing and

how traumatized were these people?

MIYAKE (through translator): They were dangling their burnt skin out in front of them, heading towards me. They didn't look like people

anymore. They looked like ghosts, men, women, old people, young people, you couldn't tell the difference. So many people. They were screaming

that they were hot, that they were in pain, that they were suffering and walking towards me.

PLEITGEN: What about your family? Because you were a 16-year-old boy. Did your family survive? Did you try and look for them? What was

the first thing that you tried to do?

MIYAKE (through translator): My mother was nearby, so I wanted to try to find her. I ran there. The house was half destroyed and she'd been

underneath. Some people close by had just pulled her out.

PLEITGEN: The interesting thing is also what happened not just in the immediate aftermath but in the days --

[14:05:00]

PLEITGEN: -- afterwards, how did the city try to cope with all of this?

How did people try to move on after this?

What did people do in the days after this? Because one of the things about nuclear bombs is that they kill in the first moment but they also

kill over a long period of time.

MIYAKE (through translator): In that instant, there were burns. There were people trapped underneath buildings who burnt to death. But it

wasn't just that. The people who somehow survived went on to suffer diseases that we'd never seen before because of the radiation and gradually

died off.

No one knew why they had these strange diseases, 140,000 people died in Hiroshima that year.

PLEITGEN: What about yourself, sir? How have you lived your life? What sort of physical and psychological impact long-term did the dropping

of the bomb and yourself having gone through all that trauma, what effects did that have on you?

MIYAKE (through translator): It was such a terrible thing that I saw with my own eyes, but I just wanted to forget. For decades I didn't talk

about it. I left Hiroshima and I went to live far away. I avoided the place. But as a survivor, I started thinking that I don't want this to

happen to anyone else. I don't want a tragedy like this to happen again anywhere in the world.

When I was 53, I started talking about my experiences. Now I'm quite old. But as long as I can move I will do my best to carry on talking to

people, both within Japan and around the world. I believe that's the duty of those who survived.

PLEITGEN: You've been campaigning for your life since that day, for a nuclear-free world, for people to understand the dangers of nuclear

weapons.

Are you still angry about that attack?

Are you angry at America for dropping the bombs?

MIYAKE (through translator): I do feel anger towards America, Russia and the other countries that still have nuclear weapons. We keep calling

for these nuclear weapons to be abolished as soon as possible, otherwise we think it will lead to the destruction of mankind.

PLEITGEN: A couple of years ago you met the grandson of Harry Truman, who was the president who dropped the nuclear bomb.

Do you think that he understood the impact of his grandfather's decision? And do you think the world understood or understands what

nuclear weapons can do?

MIYAKE (through translator): I don't think they do understand. Now I go around the world, talking about the inhumanity of nuclear weapons. Even

if people know about nuclear weapons, they really don't know how terrible and how inhuman they are. As long as we have nuclear weapons, they can be

used by mistake; they could get into the hands of terrorists. I'm worried that things could go terribly wrong.

PLEITGEN: What is it that you want the world to know on a day like this?

MIYAKE (through translator): I want to see nuclear weapons abolished as soon as possible. A non-proliferation treaty is mainly among the

nuclear powers. But many countries are calling for them to be completely banned under international law because of how inhuman they are. My earnest

wish, 70 years on, is for nuclear weapons to be banned under international law as soon as possible.

PLEITGEN: Mr. Miyake, thank you for joining the program.

MIYAKE (through translator): Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And the nuclear bomb that was dropped over Hiroshima was only the second time a nuclear weapon had ever been detonated but the Cold

War soon ushered in an era of testing and ever more deadly devices as this newsreel from the 1950s shows.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Every electronic control device is functioning smoothly and the cataclysmic moment is here. A dress rehearsal

of a possible future, scientists term the experiment an entire success, a success in destruction. As the smoke rises on Eniwetok, the curtain rises

on the scenes of man's oblivion.

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PLEITGEN: That oblivion, says my next guest, has come frighteningly close on several occasions. In his books, "Command and Control" and "Gods

of Metal," Eric Schlosser descriptions nuclear safety as an illusion.

He joins me now live from Mountain View in California.

First of all, Eric, welcome to the program.

ERIC SCHLOSSER, AUTHOR: Thanks for having me.

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PLEITGEN: So how often have we come close to a nuclear accident?

We know about things like the Cuban missile crisis, where powers were standing off against each other.

But for instance, in your books, you describe the Damascus accident, which I assume has nothing to do with the town of Damascus.

SCHLOSSER: The town of Damascus, Arkansas, where a Titan II missile, one of our largest intercontinental ballistic missiles, a routine

maintenance procedure went wrong. The missile exploded and the most powerful nuclear warhead in our arsenal could have gone off in Arkansas and

destroyed most of that state. That was in the year 1980.

And again and again, we came close with accidents involving our nuclear weapons. It's a testament to the skill of these weapons designers

that we didn't lose a city or a state, but we came close. It's a very difficult technology to control.

PLEITGEN: We always think that these things would be guarded by some of the most elite personnel that there's out there, that this is some of

the -- not only most deadly but also some of the modern technology out there.

But actually, the computer systems of some of these are actually quite old and some of them are not very well guarded.

Is that correct?

SCHLOSSER: Well, our Minuteman missiles that are our primary land- based missile today, we have about 450 of them, they were put into the ground in the early 1970s and they were supposed to be retired a decade

later. So they're getting old and the wiring is getting old and the computers in the launch control centers still rely on 8" floppy disks.

It's important to keep in mind that these are machines and all machines eventually go wrong.

In my book, "Gods of Metal," I look at a break-in at one of our top security nuclear weapons sites, the Y-12 facility in Tennessee, where three

pacifists were able to get past four fences and get right up to the building that about 1 million pounds of weapons grade uranium is stored in.

And we were very lucky that these were pacifists and not members of Al Qaeda because that's the stuff can you can make a nuclear weapon with.

PLEITGEN: Now, Eric, the men who developed some of these weapons, they seem to be well aware of the power that they were unleashing. There's

a famous sound bite from J. Robert Oppenheimer, and I want us to listen in to that and then I'll ask you your take on it.

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J. ROBERT OPPENHEIMER, PHYSICIST: A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent.

I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and, to

impress him, takes on his multi-armed form and he says, "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

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PLEITGEN: "The destroyer" of the world.

Do you think people nowadays, the broader public, but also the people who handle these weapons and are politically responsible for them still

understand the deadly force that they have in their hands and that's around them?

SCHLOSSER: I think that was that awareness during the Cold War. But we've forgotten. There's a remarkable amount of historical amnesia about

nuclear weapons. And that's why this day is so important and it's so important to remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Nuclear weapons, for the first time, gave mankind the ability literally to eliminate all life on Earth. A nuclear weapon is the most

efficient way to destroy not just an entire city but an entire civilization.

We eventually came up with weapons 1,000 times more powerful than the one that destroyed Hiroshima. And today there are about 15,000-16,000

nuclear weapons in the world.

So we need to remember that and we need to make sure that one of these weapons is never used again against a populated area. And I think

Oppenheimer was well aware of the force that he had helped unleash into the world.

PLEITGEN: What do you think is the biggest threat today? Do you think it is something like a conflict between the U.S. and a power like

Russia getting out of control? Do you think it is what many people keep talking about, nuclear weapons falling into the hands of terrorists or

other non-state actors?

What do you think is the gravest danger today on the nuclear front?

SCHLOSSER: I think that the risk of an all-out nuclear war between the United States and Russia is vastly, vastly lower --

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SCHLOSSER: -- than it was during the Cold War. But I think that the likelihood of a city somewhere in the world being destroyed by a nuclear

weapon is probably higher today.

And it's higher today because there are extremist groups that are celebrating the slaughter of civilians, celebrating the destruction of

buildings of great cultural significance and a nuclear weapon would be the most effective and efficient way for them to do that.

So I am quite concerned about terrorists getting a nuclear weapon or making one. That's why I wrote about the break-in at this high-security

building.

But we also have to be worried about a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. They're neighbors. There's intense hatred between them. And a

recent study showed that even 100 nuclear weapons being detonated in one of those wars between India and Pakistan could lead to 1 billion people being

killed.

So I'm not apocalyptic. I don't think this is going to happen next week. But I think there's nowhere near enough attention being paid to the

threat of nuclear weapons and especially to the danger or terrorists obtaining one.

PLEITGEN: Eric Schlosser, thank you very much for joining the program.

SCHLOSSER: Thanks for having me.

PLEITGEN: Trying to learn from the horrors of the past -- and after a break we turn to a mystery of modern times, the disappearance of Flight

MH370. I speak to the expert who one year ago predicted the reappearance of the ill-fated plane -- that's next.

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PLEITGEN: Welcome back.

Plane windows and seat cushions were spotted today, Malaysian officials claim, on the tiny island of La Reunion. The objects are now on

their way to France, where they'll be tested for a link to MH370. Many were surprised last week when the wing part washed up on the remote island.

But my next guest was not shocked at all. In fact, the oceanographer predicted last year that debris could wash ashore right there. This is the

model prepared by Charitha Pattiaratchi, who joined me earlier from Perth.

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PLEITGEN: Charitha Pattiaratchi, thank you for joining the program.

CHARITHA PATTIARATCHI, OCEANOGRAPHER: You're welcome.

PLEITGEN: Sir, you have this big current model that appears to have quite accurately predicted that some of the debris would wash ashore on La

Reunion Island. If you were advising the people now searching for this aircraft, would you tell them search around this area for more debris?

Do you think that much more debris will come there?

And where else do you think debris might be found?

PATTIARATCHI: Well, the first assumption, as you know, that this was the wing that -- the flaperon that was found was the first piece of debris

that we actually found anywhere. So we -- the first assumption is that if there is more debris still floating around, yes, there is a possibility

that more would be washing along around Reunion Island, but also around Madagascar, remember Madagascar's got a much bigger coastline, so let's say

much more area for debris to come along. And the currents has to go around the island.

And also perhaps in southwestern Australia.

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PLEITGEN: How can we believe that more parts would wash ashore in places like Reunion Island, though?

Because I mean, looking at the area that was covered by this debris, it's so vast and there were so many storms in between that could have

thrown things off course, is it really likely that it would be so coherent that debris would wash up in close succession in these places?

PATTIARATCHI: Well, I mean, the way the ocean works is a little bit chaotic. So there is, let's say, the area that they're actually searching,

if we assume that that's where the debris originated from, the debris doesn't go in a straight line. It goes in different directions. It goes

meandering along. It might be caught up in eddies. It might go around and around. In fact, it might also go backwards, depending on the local winds,

et cetera.

But in the overall we're talking about months. In fact, we're talking about almost, well, 14 or 15 months that we're talking about, in that

period, there is a drift towards the west. And that's what we call the gyres system. So although there is these chaotic movements in the overall

sense, there is a net movement of the whole system of the currents to the west. And that's part of this system, will carry that material towards

Reunion.

And also that's why it's taken such a long time, you know, over 500 days.

PLEITGEN: Obviously this part has been found now.

However, the airplane still hasn't been found.

Do you think that it could be possible to backtrack from where this part was found to where the aircraft might have gone down, from this

flaperon?

PATTIARATCHI: The problem is that with the backtracking, as I just said, there's a multitude of pathways where that debris could have come.

So when we actually go backwards, it will also tell us that there is a very large area where they're searching. And it will be much bigger than the

search area they're looking at where those debris could have originated from.

So, yes, we can do the backtracking. But it doesn't help us to narrow the actual search area down. Rather, it will give you -- give us an area

which is much bigger. So we still have to depend on the independent evidence from the satellite, from the Inmarsat, to define that search area.

PLEITGEN: Of course, getting the bottom of this mystery, it will be necessary to find things like the voice recorder, the black box. Do you

think that there is still actually an airplane fuselage to be found somewhere? And would a whole fuselage, for instance, if it were still

intact, also have been moved around vastly by things like currents?

PATTIARATCHI: Well, the search area, the depths are up to 4 kilometers down. So 4,000 meters or more. At that depth, the water is

almost very quiet. It will not be able to move a fuselage or anything like that. Probably the best example I can give you is Titanic. And Titanic's

been there for 100 years without moving.

And so in the deep sea, the currents are very weak and it will not be able to move something like a fuselage.

PLEITGEN: Do you think there's still a fuselage intact there, though?

PATTIARATCHI: Well, it's intact or not. But the wreckage should still be down there, yes.

PLEITGEN: How confident are you that the plane will be found?

PATTIARATCHI: I think it will be found. But it will take a much longer time.

PLEITGEN: Charitha Pattiaratchi, thank you very much for joining the program.

PATTIARATCHI: You're welcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: Pretty fascinating insight into the oceans around us.

And after a break, we look to the skies above, imagining a world where anything is possible for anyone. The amateur who managed to reach the

stars -- literally. That's next.

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PLEITGEN: And finally tonight, throughout this week you'll have noticed we've had an abundance of space stories. There was the new

hyperaccurate pictures of our blue planet. We've seen the dark side of the moon and even gazed at Buzz Aldrin's expense reports.

Usually this all seems quite out of reach to us mere mortals down here on Earth. But imagine a world where amateurs can reach up into the stars

through sheer enthusiasm.

Well, Adrian Lane from England's West Country managed to do just that. The radio and NASA enthusiast had a brief chat with a U.S. astronaut aboard

the International Space Station. He did this using radio transmitter circuit boards he built himself after getting the OK, both from NASA and

the British authorities.

He found out the ISS was doing a flyby over his part of the world more than 300 kilometers above and he patiently sending out the signal in the

tiny window of time to the speeding space station, he told us about the response he got from the den where he made the call.

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ADRIAN LANE, RADIO AND NASA ENTHUSIAST: I just called the International Space Station and an astronaut came back to me and said,

2EZrsdr, welcome aboard the International Space Station. I asked how do the stars even look from up there? Do they look different? And he said

they did because there's no atmosphere up there. Everything's black but the stars. He said, until we look down on Earth, Adrian, it was just

literally a mass of color. I was quite ecstatic. I run into the house and I said to the wife, "I've cracked it."

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PLEITGEN: Quite out of this world.

And that's it for our program tonight. Remember you can always see the whole show online at amanpour.com, and follow me on Facebook and

Twitter @FPleitgenCNN. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

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