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Amanpour

U.S. Energy Secretary Pushes Iran Deal; Robert Redford: A Rebel with a Cause; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 08, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: a (INAUDIBLE) backer: Iran, really ready to end Syria's war and stem the human tide?

Will the nuclear deal make that any easier? I'll talk to one of the main architects.

Also ahead, Robert Redford takes a walk in the woods: his career, costars and refusing to put on his retirement slippers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT REDFORD, ACTOR, DIRECTOR AND ACTIVIST: I want to make the most of what I've been given. And you keep pushing yourself forward and trying

new things and that's invigorating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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AMANPOUR (voice-over): And later, how ISIS has obliterated culture and identity. My interview with the head of UNESCO at the world-famous

Louvre museum in Paris.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

With the human cost of Syria's war finally hitting home now, Europe is preparing to announce new mandatory measures for helping the refugees. But

the roots, of course, lie in Syria and its alphabet soup of violent military groups, terrorists and President Assad himself, stubbornly

resistant to a solution.

But could the Iran nuclear deal help? Europe's foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, told me yesterday that it does have broad potential.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEDERICA MOGHERINI, E.U. HIGH REPRESENTATIVE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: .last time we met in person, it was in Vienna when we were finalizing the

Iranian deal, if I remember well.

And I believe that what we reached in Vienna in July is not only a non-proliferation agreement but could also be -- could be -- we're not

there yet, but could also be opening the way for regional powers around Syria to take a different kind of approach and help the international

community to come to an end, to help to solve the crisis, to solve the war in Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now the Obama administration won't say that publicly yet, especially as the U.S. Congress starts debating whether to approve the

deal. And today the Iranian president, Rouhani, said that his country was ready to hold talks about Syria with any other country, including the

United States and Saudi Arabia.

Joining me now from Washington is one of the nuclear deal's main architects. He is himself a nuclear physicist. He is the U.S. Energy

Secretary Ernest Moniz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. Good to see you.

ERNEST MONIZ, U.S. SECRETARY OF ENERGY: Good to see you, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: So you heard what Federica Mogherini says; you have sat in a room with her, many other people, for many, many months and you're

watching the tide of refugees knowing that Iran holds a major key.

Do you believe that this nuclear deal could lead to a more constructive policy by Iran in that region and more detente with the U.S.

on these issues?

MONIZ: Well, obviously, we would all hope that that would be an outcome over the years. But let's face it, we're starting at a point of

substantial distrust. And so our negotiating was clearly based upon the issue of verification, roll back their program and verify over a

significant period of time.

And of course, we all would aspire to see Iran changing its behavior with regard to terrorism support, some of the regional instabilities that

that -- they are contributing to, human rights abuses, very unhelpful rhetoric, shall we say, about the United States and Israel.

So there's quite a few things to work out. But obviously that would be a wonderful outcome if Iran rejoined the community of nations in

addressing all these other problems while they never have a nuclear weapon.

AMANPOUR: Now let's talk about the nuclear deal because you're sitting in Washington where Congress has come back from recess and the

debate gets underway in earnest before a vote.

We know that President Obama has a certain number of votes that makes it very likely that he'll be able to get it through and not even have to

veto.

But they say that you were one of the secret weapons -- pardon, I guess, the pun -- by the administration official to persuade Congress,

particularly wavering Democrats and others, that this --

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AMANPOUR: -- actually was the best deal to be had.

MONIZ: Well, I thought it was rocket scientist and not secret weapon.

(LAUGHTER)

MONIZ: But whatever the case, clearly the deal is based upon very, very sound science. And I do want to emphasize that we had our entire

Department of Energy nuclear security laboratory system behind us all the time in the analyses.

So we feel that the deal is extremely solid; frankly, it breaks new ground in terms of safeguards agreements and so our view was the more that

we could explain the deal, the more we could answer questions about it, the more that we would find support coming to our side. And we've been very

pleased already today, the first day back in Congress, to see a number of members coming out in support of the deal.

AMANPOUR: And you know, from here, from our vantage point overseas, we understand and we watch officials, diplomats from all these countries

say basically that, hey, you know, if the U.S. decides to reject it, well, then the U.S. will be alone.

Tell me about diplomats from the world powers, many of the countries who sat with you around the negotiating table.

What did they say? Because they've meeting with members of Congress.

What have they said?

MONIZ: Well, first of all, the unity of the P5+1 in the negotiations, a unity that surprised as many because obviously we have tensions with

members of P5+1. Russia would be a good example today.

Nevertheless, when it came to having a verifiable Iran without a nuclear program -- without a nuclear weapon program, there was tremendous

unity. That unity is a major asset for us in the implementation phase, certainly if we have to respond to any activity that goes out of bounds.

So preserving that unity is critical and I think there's no doubt about it. And our partners have basically said it, that if we walk away,

we walk away alone. Unity will not be held and of course if unity is not held, the effectiveness of sanctions goes down. And so we think that this

agreement is clearly the best way to go.

In fact, if we were, for some reason, to walk away from it and apparently we will not, as we have always said, but if that were to have

happened, I think it would have been a terrible blow to American diplomatic leadership and, frankly, would have allowed Iran to expand its nuclear

program without the kind of verification measures that this agreement puts in place.

AMANPOUR: Now, Secretary Moniz, we know that the Israeli government still opposes it. It has apparently not been able to sway sufficient

numbers of the U.S. Congress.

And look at this poll amongst American Jews: 53 percent say Congress should support the Iran deal while only 35 percent say that Congress should

oppose it.

But let me play this part of an interview, very emotional, that the senior Democrat in Congress, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, said to our Jake

Tapper about supporting this deal.

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DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, CHAIR, DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I'm the first Jewish woman to represent Florida in Congress.

I'm a Jewish mother and I wrote an op-ed today that's in "The Miami Herald," one of my hometown papers, that talked about my Jewish heart and

how important this was to me that, as a Jewish mother, that we have a concept of l'dor va'dor, from generation to generation. There's nothing

more important to me as a Jew to ensure that Israel's existence is there throughout our generations.

And I am confident that the process I've gone through to reach this decision is one that will ensure that Israel will be there forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Well, you know it very well, but there was the raw emotion from an American Jewish member of Congress.

Do you think that inside Israel key people, even though the prime minister doesn't like this, you have enough support for technicalities of

this?

MONIZ: Well, first of all, I think that -- let me say in terms of the American Jewish community, I certainly -- among other communities, I've

certain personally, as has Secretary Kerry and others, met with leaders of the Jewish community in D.C., but also across the country.

And I think these meetings have always been very, very well received because, first of all, we understand the concerns -- and I'll come back to

the specifics -- but we understand the concerns and the emotion around the decision for many, certainly including those in the Jewish community.

But I think as we lay out the case factually, I think many have understood more clearly and many have come to support the agreement --

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MONIZ: -- based upon it being pretty clearly the best alternative we have today. And in the end something that we believe is very good for

Israel's security, particularly when supplemented by the kinds of actions the president has been proposing in terms of enhanced security agreements.

Now in Israel, once again, there's certainly not a consensus. There is, at the highest political level, quite clearly. But we have seen also

former members of the Israeli intelligence service -- I mean, not only members but heads, heads of the Shin Bet, who say that, in the end, the

deal is a net-plus.

So I think that it's difficult; I think the main concerns that I hear in those discussions ends up really not being so much the nuclear

dimensions specifically because they do accomplish our goals; it is the uncertainty around what happens if Iran's economy gets back into kind of a

normal operating status and how would that affect the other kinds of actions that we discussed earlier that we need to push back on?

So the president has made it very clear. Let's get the nuclear weapon, which is the existential threat, off the table and then work with

our allies -- Israel, our Arab friends -- to make sure that we push back in Iran and certainly give Iran the opportunity to regain the trust of the

international community and to stop some of these actions, such as terrorist support, Hezbollah support, for example, to which we object so

very strongly.

AMANPOUR: Important times indeed, Secretary Ernest Moniz, thank you so much for joining us from Washington today.

MONIZ: Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Now if sealing the Iran deal was hard, it's apparently nothing compared to the crucial December climate change negotiations, which

will be taking place in Paris as the French president warns even now of failure.

The environment is also a big passion of my next guest. But you'll know him as a veteran Hollywood heartthrob. Why Robert Redford's pleased

that he shrugged off that title. "A Walk in the Woods" -- next.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

It's hard to believe that the American movie star, Robert Redford, has celebrated his 79th birthday this year. We all know him as the Kid, the

Sundance Kid, alongside Paul Newman's Butch Cassidy in the classic 1969 Western.

Since then, Redford's constantly been on the move, acting, directing and supporting causes close to his heart, like founding the famous

independent Sundance Film Festival, which is now 20 years old, and struggling to combat climate change.

Redford really gets moving in his latest project, as he stars in "A Walk in the Woods," a story about an unlikely pair who decide to hike the

Appalachian Trail.

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AMANPOUR: That, of course, is Nick Nolte. And the two stars engage in a fun and poignant romp through values such as friendship and love of

the environment and nature.

I sat down with Robert Redford in Paris earlier this morning as the film opens in Europe. And I discovered the unconventional life behind

those very conventional good looks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Robert Redford, welcome to the program.

REDFORD: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: I was surprised to learn that you, who do not have a reputation as being the bad boy of cinema, had a pretty well-earned

misspent youth that landed you here in Paris as a young man.

REDFORD: Yes. That's right.

AMANPOUR: What was that all about?

REDFORD: I wouldn't consider that my bad time. That came just a little bit before.

Up to that point, my life had been constricted by growing up in Los Angeles and I was not inspired by that. I felt like my life had not really

begun.

And then when I went to Europe to study art, I came to Paris. Once I came to Paris, that's where my real education began.

AMANPOUR: What was it that you were rebelling against?

I read that you just didn't want to do what your father wanted you to do and what did you find when you came here, where we're sitting in this

great city?

REDFORD: Well, I think in terms of my dad, I mean, my dad was a good man. But he grew up in poverty. And so he was kind of saddled with what

that brings about, you know, poverty makes you afraid to try things. You want to grab a hold of something and hang onto it for security.

Because I was very different and because I guess I was very rebellious and I wanted to be out of the box, so to speak.

AMANPOUR: So I ask all that because it leads to me perfectly into your new film, "A Walk in the Woods," which is open in the U.S., which is

opening here around the world. And you and your sort of wild man friend, Katz, in the movie, are talking about your wild years.

And it seems -- what is it?

Why did you want to do this particular film?

Was it about nature?

Was it about midlife crisis?

REDFORD: Well, kind of both.

First of all, it was a comedy and I -- it had been many, many years since I had done a comedy. And I wanted to do a film that had comedy in

it.

But this was a comedy that also had pathos and it had that other level to it that I was drawn to.

And that had to do with friendship. I felt that friendship was a valuable topic to explore, friendship that started when you were young; you

became very close friends and then something happened, you fell out. You fell out with each other.

And then 30 years later, you come back and you find -- you revive that friendship. I just thought that was a nice theme, friendship. And then

the idea of being in nature, developing that in nature in a way that neither character knew what they were getting into.

AMANPOUR: Apparently you had wanted your old friend and fellow costar, Paul Newman, to play Katz, the Nick Nolte role.

That didn't happen. Tell me about how you first envisioned this film.

REDFORD: When I first read it, it was back in maybe 2002 or something -- it was just after 9/11. and because Paul and I had become really good

friends and we had done these two films together, and we both wanted --

AMANPOUR: The two films, "The Sting" and "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" -- we'll get back to "Butch Cassidy."

REDFORD: -- because of that, we both wanted to have a third that we could do that carried the same quality that the first two had, the

relationship between the two guys, but in a different category.

Couldn't find it. And when I read this book, I thought, well, maybe this is the one. And so I called Paul.

I said, "Read this book."

He read it; he laughed. He said it's great.

When I came to visit with him, you know, Paul -- one of the things I liked about Paul is that he is a very honest man, very honest about -- he's

a very generous man. As you could see in the first two films we made, because nobody wanted me in "Butch Cassidy," the studio didn't want me

because I was not known like he was.

And he said, "I'd like to work with this guy." So he's a very generous man.

AMANPOUR: Didn't he even flip roles to make sure --

(CROSSTALK)

REDFORD: Yes, yes. He was supposed to play Sundance, yes. It was -- the original title was "The Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy."

AMANPOUR: No.

REDFORD: Yes, it was, yes.

That was the original title, because he was going to play Sundance.

AMANPOUR: That's pretty amazing.

REDFORD: Yes, it was.

AMANPOUR: Because film history was made, certainly your film history.

REDFORD: Well, we didn't know it at the time. I mean, I just didn't know it at the time.

But the point was that Paul had the option not to consider me.

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REDFORD: The fact that supported me was something -- it made a big difference in our relationship, because I thought I really owe him that.

He's such an honest guy, he said, you know, Bob, he said, "It's been 20-plus years since the last film we made. And time is different. I'm

different. I'm older. I can't physically do what I used to do. I can't trust what I used to trust about my memory and so forth."

He says, "I don't think I should do this."

I thought, wow, that's pretty impressive. And that's pretty honest.

He said, "I think I should step aside, because I don't think it would make sense," that the age difference between us, which was about 14 years,

would be too pronounced.

So I was disappointed but he was also right. And so he stepped aside and, at that point, I thought, well, who else? And I thought of Nick

Nolte. And I thought, because Nick and probably shared a similar background in our youth and I had kind of pulled it together and he hadn't

quite pulled it together and so -- but he was smart, he was a good actor.

AMANPOUR: You were really young and this is about the next stage of life and, I don't know, you're 79 years old. Who would know that you're

nearly 80, really?

REDFORD: Suddenly I'm feeling very old.

(LAUGHTER)

AMANPOUR: What has it done?

Has that liberated you, sort of the pretty boy but very good actor, but you were getting certain roles for a long time.

Can you -- do you have more choice now, more freedom?

REDFORD: Yes, you're right. I mean, you said it. I think I got -- I wasn't prepared for being locked into a box. I didn't see myself the way

others saw me. And so therefore it was hard for me to accept it. And then I realized I was kind of feeling trapped because I couldn't go outside the

box of leading man or good-looking leading man. It was very flattering but it was feeling restrictive because I started out in the business to be an

actor, to play all kinds of roles.

So it took many years to break loose of that. And I think finally that's happened. And that feels good.

AMANPOUR: Apparently, you don't like to watch your own movies.

Is that true?

Why?

REDFORD: I don't have a good answer for it. I wish I did. I don't know why. I just don't like it. I've never liked looking at myself. It

sometimes embarrasses me. You know, I don't want to be embarrassed. So.

AMANPOUR: I read that it kind of goes back to your childhood. Didn't you used to go to movie theaters a lot --

(CROSSTALK)

REDFORD: It could be; yes, it could be that I grew up in a rough neighborhood as a kid and we would go to matinees. You know, we'd go to

matinees -- basically we could go to see the cartoons or the serials, you know, Wonder Woman, Flash Gordon, Tarzan.

And when the films would come up, we would be in this mood, where we would not take them seriously. And so sometimes we'd make comments to the

screen. I'm embarrassed to say that, that it had to do with growing up the wrong -- and --

(LAUGHTER)

REDFORD: -- weird neighborhood. And so maybe that was in my head when I became an actor. I said, boy, I'm up there and I can imagine myself

sitting in the audience, saying, oh, come on, you know.

AMANPOUR: Be real.

REDFORD: Yes, yes.

AMANPOUR: And what about retiring? Not so many years ago, you talked about kicking back, but there is no sign of that.

REDFORD: Seems perverse. I mean, I say I want to kick back and I do twice as much as I've done. I think probably as I really look back on it,

I don't really mean it. I think the idea seemed good. But when you get right down to it, I don't think that's who I am. I think the idea is when

you're born, you -- when you're being raised, you want to make the most of your life. And I guess that's what I decided.

I want to make the most of what I've been given. And you keep pushing yourself forward; you try new things and that's invigorating. And I guess

I found out that rather than retiring, that just feels better. Just keep moving as long as you can keep moving, you know.

AMANPOUR: Well, you're still moving. Robert Redford, always a pleasure.

REDFORD: And for me, too. Yes, thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And we'll have more of that interview on Friday.

But when we come back, I take a walk in the Louvre museum, home to so many of the world's greatest treasures, including spectacular relics from

Palmyra, the ones that ISIS can't get to -- that's next.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, the horrors that ISIS has wrought on our heritage such as the destruction of Palmyra is cultural cleansing, says

the UNESCO chief, Irina Bokova. I got her take on the significance of the losses at the Louvre museum just weeks after two of the oldest and most

important temples were blown up at the actual site in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IRINA BOKOVA, UNESCO: I think it's a tragedy that Baalshamin, you see the beauty of (INAUDIBLE) most important temple in the antiquities.

I think (INAUDIBLE) like no other city in the antiquities represented a diversity of culture.

AMANPOUR: Is there something that you see them moving on now?

Is there another part of this incredible complex of Palmyra that's at risk now -- ?

BOKOVA: Oh, yes.

AMANPOUR: Or could it be all of it?

BOKOVA: Oh, yes. I think all of it is in danger. And also the most hidden, I would say, tragedy about this happening is all the (INAUDIBLE)

excavations that are going around. There is so much there and we don't know what is taken out of the ground.

AMANPOUR: And what they may blow up next.

BOKOVA: And what they may blow up next because as I said, we haven't seen anything like that. It's a very deliberate, systematic destruction.

AMANPOUR: You know, it's not an accident that these -- the totalitarians who attack art, whether it's the Taliban who blew up the

1,500-year-old Bamiyan sculptures, whether it's the Nazis, who plundered the art during -- in Europe during World War II and now whether it's these,

it's dangerous when people start attacking art. It gives a signal of what they're going to do to people.

BOKOVA: Yes. I think really that I'm convinced that this is part and parcel of this humanitarian crisis. People, we are human beings. People

have identities. They have memories. They have history. They have pride. They just want (INAUDIBLE) as if it did not exist, as if there was no

history, there was culture. There are no lessons given to learn from history.

So I think all this extraordinary achievement of humanity has to be preserved. And that is why I think that what we call cultural cleansing at

UNESCO, it's something really --

AMANPOUR: Cultural cleansing?

BOKOVA: -- cultural cleansing --

AMANPOUR: -- which evokes ethnic cleansing --

BOKOVA: Exactly, you persecute people, you persecute minorities. You persecute Yazidis, the Christians, the Syrians, (INAUDIBLE), Chiboks, all

these extraordinary diversity of the Middle East. You persecute them. You physically want to destroy them. You chase them, disgrace them. And at

the same time, you want to deprive them of their history, of their memories, as if it did not exist. So this is cultural cleansing. And

we've had to stand up against it.

AMANPOUR: Irina Bokova, thank you very much indeed.

BOKOVA: Thank you very much, Christiane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: And that's it for our program tonight. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.

END