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U.S. Ambassador to U.N. on Syria Criticism; Germany's Role in the World; Imagine a World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 18, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: This week, desperate refugees fleeing Syria's war ran into a violent crackdown on Europe's doorstep.

As Moscow ramped up military support for Bashar al-Assad, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations tells me that is not a winning strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA POWER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Doubling down on a regime that gases its people, that barrel bombs its people, that tortures people,

who it arrests simply for protesting and for claiming their rights, that's just not going to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Also ahead, as Germany tries to cope with an influx of refugees, the second part of my exclusive interview with the defense minister, Ursula

von der Leyen.

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the special weekend edition of our program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

This week, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria came out swinging, accusing the West of fueling Europe's refugee crisis and supporting terrorism.

Perhaps emboldened by an infusion of military muscle from Russia; President Putin confirmed that he is flying in tons more tanks, armored vehicles,

artillery and personnel to bolster of the Syrian army.

The Pentagon, which is not exactly sure what the Kremlin's aims are, confirmed that Russia is building a military base.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): And these satellite pictures show what appears to be construction of an air base in the coastal city of Latakia.

Meantime, the head of the U.S. Central Command revealed stunning setbacks for the United States, admitting that only a handful of opposition fighters

have already been trained and remain on the battlefield.

GEN. LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. CENTCOM: It's a small number. And the ones that are in the fight, is -- we're talking four or five.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Four or five.

This week, I had a rare interview with the United States ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power, on a war in Syria that seems to be getting worse and

worse, both for the people there and for U.S. interests.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

POWER: Good to be back.

AMANPOUR: We're right here in the midst of the most almighty crisis in Europe, a humanitarian crisis and a political crisis.

What do you make of what's going on with the refugees in Europe and the fact that Europe is trying to impose mandatory quotas?

Is that something that U.S. administration agrees with?

POWER: Well, it is extremely complex, as you know, when you have 60 million refugees in the world as a whole, more than in recorded history,

and 12 million people displaced from Syria. It's going to place tremendous burdens --

[14:05:00]

POWER: -- on every country, first and foremost, those countries that immediately surround Syria, who have shouldered so much of the burden up to

this point.

And we just hope that Europe can do its fair share and we're in close touch with European leaders.

We're looking at the upcoming U.N. General Assembly as a venue in which leaders will come together to talk both about refugee slots, the issue that

you raised, but also money.

Because one of the reasons that so many of these desperate families are voting with their feet is that the rations have been cut in the region

because the financial needs are very much outpacing what countries have been willing to put forward.

So there's also a financial piece of this, in terms of caring for refugees in the region.

AMANPOUR: General John Allen, the American general overseeing the fight against ISIS, said that this exodus is going to continue as long as this

war continues and that, at the current pace, it could go on for a long time.

Is the United States ready to make this, you know, about Assad as well as about ISIS, as most people think it should?

Or is it still focused just on attacking ISIS in Syria and Iraq?

POWER: Well, I think you heard the president speak to this on Friday, on September 11th, where he made very, very clear that as long as Assad is in

power and as long as Assad continues the brutal tactics that he's employed from day one of this crisis, a crisis that began simply with political

protests and people in Syria just demanding basic dignity and rights for their families, that's no winning solution against ISIL.

And so the strategy of doubling down on using military force against civilians, as the Syrian regime has done consistently throughout the war

and as Russia potentially appears to be embracing, is something that's going to move us further from a political solution that would, again, stem

the flow of people and potentially allow people to begin to return home.

So Assad cannot be part of a solution, even if one only focuses on ISIL. And needless to say, from the standpoint of stability in the region and the

welfare of civilians inside Syria, Assad can't be part of the solution because he gases his people, uses barrel bombs against them, is responsible

for one of the worst torture campaigns, it seems, in modern memory.

So one has to walk and chew gum at the same time with ISIL and work a political solution so that Assad is not continuing again to attract jihadis

to the Syrian theater.

AMANPOUR: Well, it looks like -- and I'd like to get your view and information on this. It looks like the Russians are trying to walk and

chew gum at the same time but on Assad's side.

We've heard from the Pentagon today that intelligence shows and confirms the reports that we've had for the last more than two weeks, that a lot of

Russian personnel and military equipment, including tanks and other such things, are going in, perhaps, according to the U.S., to form a forward

operating base.

What is your assessment of what Russia is doing?

Is it going on in Assad's side?

POWER: Well, we've seen the same reports, of course, and more.

And it certainly does appear for now that they are doubling down on behalf of a regime, notwithstanding the fact that, every day I'm in the Security

Council, they talk a lot about there being no military solution to this conflict, the importance of these political talks.

So we are engaging them. And, again, as the president said on Friday, this is not a winning strategy. Doubling down on a regime that gases its

people, that barrel bombs its people, that tortures people, who it arrests simply for protesting and for claiming their rights, that's just not going

to work.

I mean, even if you were Machiavelli and all you cared about was ISIL, to support a regime like this and to not take account of the views of the vast

majority of the Syrian people that want to go in a different direction, is not going to either bring peace or actually succeed in defeating terrorism,

which is what President Putin says his priority is.

AMANPOUR: You can see, because I know you're reading the newspapers back in the United States, that there is a growing and loud chorus of criticism

against the Obama administration in some very influential corridors.

For instance, "The New York Times," a column has just said that "American interventionism can have terrible consequences, as the Iraq war has

demonstrated. But American non-interventionism can be equally devastating, as Syria illustrates."

What is your answer to that? Because that is now becoming a predominant criticism of your administration.

POWER: I think the challenge is to find what is the policy tool that's going to make things better. And that has proven very, very challenging.

The United States has provided $4 billion worth of humanitarian assistance to try to cater to the needs of those who have been displaced, again from

this monstrous conflict.

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POWER: We support the Syrian opposition and have for a very long time. We've supported a political track.

But we've not been joined by Russia or Iran or, of course, the Syrian regime in wanting seriously to engage in political negotiations. So I

think, again, our focus is what is the tool that will work now to make things better.

AMANPOUR: And yet, again, many, including in the U.S. national security establishment, are saying that the only way this is going to end is by

ground forces, whosever they may be. But it's ground forces and not from the air.

And in terms of trying to raise an opposition force, we're hearing only like 100 or so have been trained and people are coming after you as well.

Fred Hiatt of "The Washington Post" has said, "The fact that the woman who wrote the book on genocide, Samantha Power, could apparently in good

conscience stay on as U.N. ambassador, lent further moral credibility to U.S. abdication."

How do you answer that?

POWER: Again, I'm just focused on -- General Assembly's coming up. We're trying to get more money for those refugees. There's a political track

we're trying to get going.

Russia and Iran, you know, maybe the place really where one should lodge much of that criticism for supporting a regime that is carrying out these

monstrous attacks against civilians and, again, fueling, whether wittingly or unwittingly, the rise of terrorism.

I, like the president, am just focused on what is going to make things better in the here and now.

And it's not obvious, again, until there's a fundamental shift in the calculus by President Putin and by the Iranian regime to see that this

approach of thinking that you can just wipe out whole communities and think that that is going to help you deal with a terrorism problem, that approach

is just not going to be productive.

And that is the shift that needs to occur.

AMANPOUR: Ambassador Power, thank you very much for joining me from the United Nations.

POWER: Thank you, Christiane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So as the United States tries to figure out what Putin's plans for Syria are, refugees just keep on flooding into Europe. But this week,

the German chancellor had to do a bit of a U-turn as her country struggles to cope.

Next, the second part of my interview with Germany's defense minister on sending in the military to help and on being the first woman to occupy that

position. That's next.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

Record numbers of refugees continue to arrive in Europe, many still hoping to get to Germany, despite Angela Merkel's U-turn of sorts this week. She

imposed temporary border controls along with Australia and Slovakia to try to slow down the pace of refugees coming into the country.

Meantime, on the Hungarian-Serbian border, riot police turned tear gas and water cannons on desperate men, women and children after they tried to

break through a fence that's been built to keep them from entering Hungary. Others sought a new route into the E.U. through Croatia. But now that

government says it can't take any more, either.

This week, as Chancellor Merkel held a special woman's leadership summit, she also had to throw open federal buildings and military barracks to house

tens of thousands of new refugees.

And I sat down for an exclusive interview with the defense minister, Ursula von der Leyen, about this and also about what it takes to be a high profile

minister and mother of seven.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Minister von der Leyen, welcome to the program.

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, GERMAN DEFENSE MINISTER: Thank you very much.

AMANPOUR: Germany has taken in the most refugees, hundreds of thousands you expect by the end of the year, maybe a million and, and, and for the

next several years.

What about the rest of Europe?

I mean, can you really cope on your own?

And why is it that --

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AMANPOUR: -- only three countries seem to be really voluntarily taking in a lot of refugees?

VON DER LEYEN: You're absolutely right. I'm deeply convinced it has to be a European task we're going to manage. And you're right that, at the

moment, being there is in some countries quite a reluctance.

It is typical for Europe that over problems that we have, we often have long discussions. But the strength of Europe is also that in the very end

we stick together and we solve a problem that the single member state cannot solve on its own; that's why Europe is therefore -- and that's the

process at the moment --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Right.

Is that wishful thinking? Because Britain doesn't want to do it; France doesn't want to do it. The Hungarians don't want to do it, the Czechs, the

Slovaks, the Poles, nobody wants to do it.

Even Jean-Claude Juncker, who gave an impassioned plea for quotas, hasn't even dared ask for quotas.

VON DER LEYEN: That's true --

AMANPOUR: -- and there is a new emergency meeting coming up --

VON DER LEYEN: -- yes, that is -- you -- that's true. That was the starting point.

But we at least managed to have 100 and thousand -- 20,000 refugees now distributed over Europe. So slowly but surely the reluctant countries are

changing their mind, I think also because the population is putting a lot of pressure on the governments because it is a question of the European

principles.

Are we just shying away from that problem right at our doorsteps?

Or are we sticking to our principles?

And that's what we're discussing at the moment being.

So I know it's a tough and long journey to convince everybody and to take everybody along to show solidarity. But solidarity is one of the core

principles of the European Union and I'm convinced that that we're very and we're going to find a solution.

AMANPOUR: About Germany projecting its military power in general, the president of this country has said that stop using history as a shield.

Something awful happened during World War II, but Germany's a different country today.

You don't spend near close to 2 percent of your GDP on the military, which NATO demands; is it time to man up, so to speak, militarily, and take the

lead?

Because Germany takes the lead in so many other areas.

What are the plans for the German military going forward?

VON DER LEYEN: Well, first of all, if we're talking about leadership and we think leading from the center is the principle we want to follow, we are

-- if we're talking about the military part, always talking about the comprehensive approach of economic development and diplomacy and, if

necessary, military.

And what the 2 percent are concerned, yes, we had quite a while where we had a decreasing budget for the defense and security policy. But now we

manage the turnaround. We are increasing again. Our problem is kind of a weird problem. Our problem is a very strong and fast rising GDP.

So there are many countries who would like to have this problem, to be honest.

But I think this comprehensive approach to be willing to face a challenge, as in Iraq, for example, if necessary, with military means but always

knowing that has to be, first of all, the diplomacy, the political solution and the economic development, this is the core principle of our approach.

AMANPOUR: And how have you seen the necessity or where do you see the need for German -- for the German military to adapt or the European military to

adapt?

For instance, as you've talked about in the face of Russia and Ukraine, what you've called a hybrid war that Russia is waging?

VON DER LEYEN: Yes, sometimes I think that NATO and our armed forces are a little bit like a Sleeping Beauty and the challenge that came upon us by

Russia's hybrid warfare in the Ukraine and, at the same time, the conflict in the Iraq with ISIS, at the same time Ebola, there are many, many

challenges. And now the Mediterranean Sea on top. There was the need to really modernize.

What I focus on is, first of all, the development of the armed forces. I'm talking about not only quantity but specifically about quality,

technicians, I.T. personnel, you really need high, top personnel in the armed forces.

Second part is the restructuring and modernizing of the procurement sector.

And the third part is to think about and rewrite a new white paper, which is the adaptation to these new challenges, cyber actually included.

AMANPOUR: You're one of a handful --

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AMANPOUR: -- a small handful of female defense ministers in Europe. I think there are five of you.

What is it like being a female defense minister?

VON DER LEYEN: It's good.

(LAUGHTER)

VON DER LEYEN: And the five of us, we really like it.

(LAUGHTER)

VON DER LEYEN: To be honest, at the very beginning, of course, I didn't know what was coming up to me. The armed forces reacted absolutely

uncomplicated. They want leadership. That's all.

And the problem was more the public and my environment, who did not really cope with that new idea, a woman being defense minister. I got questioned

like how does it feel when a man is saluting in front of you? And I was thinking about, wait a moment.

(LAUGHTER)

VON DER LEYEN: Where's the problem?

AMANPOUR: That's quite nice.

VON DER LEYEN: Yes. We got used to it now. So I got over the first hurdles that are always there. But it was unexpectedly not at all a

problem within the armed forces.

AMANPOUR: How did you get to be the defense minister of Germany with seven children?

How did you work, being the mother of seven children and this topnotch career?

VON DER LEYEN: Well, to be honest, first of all, I come from a large family. I have six siblings. I'm used to a large family. And I lived for

a few years at the very beginning in the United States at Stanford.

And there I realized -- it was in the early '90s -- how easy life can be if you have a supporting environment for the reconciliation of work and

family. It was completely different to the attitude the Germans had at that time.

And when I came back home, I was determined never, ever to be intimidated by all these prejudices we have in Germany against working moms, but just

to go my way with the children -- of course, my husband and me, we were blessed with seven. And to be honest, now I'm since 10 years a federal

minister, so I got some training --

(LAUGHTER)

VON DER LEYEN: -- how to manage that. Therefore I was prepared how to be a minister and what I had to learn anew in this job is how to lead the

ministry for defense.

AMANPOUR: Let me just go back to how to be a minister or any kind of working woman. You had to also have a supportive spouse, a supportive

partner --

(CROSSTALK)

VON DER LEYEN: Absolutely. Absolutely. Of course. The first 15 years of our marriage, it was me, who was the one who would take -- was taking over

more tasks and chores at home and with the children.

And then all of a sudden, it switched because I was appointed federal minister and my husband kind of had to take over, whether he wanted it or

not.

Today, looking back, he says, this was the best thing that could happen to him, because, all of a sudden, it was not me who would let him take care of

the children but he is the dad, irreplaceable, as I am the mom, irreplaceable. And it was a completely new role he discovered with the

children.

I had to get used to it, too. Looking back today, I think it was the very best decision we could take.

At the very end, I'd say you have to know what's good for you, being a mom or a dad. And if you go into the job or the part-time job, whatever you

want, and you're satisfied with it, you're going to be a good mom or a good dad.

AMANPOUR: On that note, Minister Ursula von der Leyen, thank you so much indeed for joining us.

VON DER LEYEN: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Powerful women at the center of a continent in crisis.

Coming up next, a great mind of tomorrow stopped in his tracks: the 14- year old from Texas, who was arrested for bringing a homemade clock to school. You guessed it. They thought he was bringing in a bomb. Imagine

a world where you are so unfairly judged and then so highly sought after. We will explain after a break.

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AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, imagine a world where youthful ingenuity is grounds for deep suspicion and even handcuffs.

This week, the story of a young boy in Texas captured the world's imagination. 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed, a passionate and aspiring young

techie, brought in this homemade electronic clock to school and ended up under arrest.

Leaping to entirely the wrong conclusions, perhaps because of his name and his looks, his teachers thought it was a bomb. And while he was being

held, he wasn't even allowed to call his father.

Ahmed was thankfully released. But incredibly, he was still suspended from school for three days for creating a clock, for using his own initiative to

develop a project for school.

But while they punished him there, the world applauded him. President Obama tweeted this invitation to the White House while Mark Zuckerberg

opened Facebook's doors to the young brain.

And across America, people have been standing with Ahmed by bringing their clocks into work.

A visibly relieved and bemused Ahmed thanked everyone for their support. And he took a chance to make a pitch for his own further education.

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AHMED MOHAMED, STUDENT CLOCK MAKER: I am -- I really want to go to MIT and camp. And I'm thinking about transferring schools from MacArthur to any

different school.

(APPLAUSE)

MOHAMED: And thank you to all my supporters on Twitter, Facebook, all social media. Thank you all for helping me. I would never have got this

far if it wasn't for you guys. And not just you guys, everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: As for MIT, they have invited him for a tour.

Who wouldn't want a motivated young mind to shape for the future of science?

That's it for our program tonight. And remember you can always all our interviews at amanpour.com and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thank

you for watching and goodbye from London.

END