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Amanpour
British Electorate Delivers Seismic Political Shockwave Voting to Leave the E.U. Aired at 2-3p ET
Aired June 24, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour at Westminster, the seat of British democracy. The
British electorate has delivered a seismic political shockwave, felt around the European Union and around the world. The United Kingdom has voted to
leave the E.U. by over a million votes.
The reaction was immediate. Just after 8 o'clock in the morning here, the Prime Minister, David Cameron, offered his resignation, his voice breaking
with emotion, he said, he would stay on until October to help see the country through this change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRITISH PRIME MINISTER DAVID CAMERON: And I will do everything I can to help. I love this country, and I feel honored to have served it. And I
will do everything I can in future to help this great country succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: The financial and currency markets lurched into a queasy dive with millions of pounds wiped off the value of the markets, leading figures
in Europe attempted to calm fears, but the German chancellor Angela Merkel, found it hard to disguise her sense of shock.
GERMAN CHANCELLOR ANGELA MERKEL: For the coming weeks, months, years, what exactly that means, that will very much depend on whether we, the other 27
European Union members, are willing and, also, capable to act.
AMANPOUR: A triumphant tone was struck here in London by the leader of the U.K. Independence Party, Nigel Farage, who forced this referendum, but
Boris Johnson, a late convert to the Brexit cause, ceased this victory as his, perhaps, route to number 10 Downing Street, and he called for calm.
[14:05:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, CONVERT TO BREXIT CAUSE: I want reassure everybody and remind you, as a result of this, Britain will continue to be a great
European power, leading discussions on foreign policy and defense and intelligence sharing, and all the work that currently goes on to make our
world safer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: But remainers call what happened a leap into the dark, which drew congratulations from controversial presidential candidate in the
United States, Donald Trump. He arrived in Scotland to open a new golf course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, BUSINESSMAN: I've been saying that I would prefer what happened. I thought this would be a good thing.
I think it will turn out to be a good thing, maybe short term, not, but ultimately, I think it will be a good thing. And I've actually been in
touch and some, by the way, don't like it, and some do like it. You know, they're advisors, they're like everybody else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Now begins the political sole searching as Westminster figures out just how to enact the divorce from Europe. So Gerald Howarth, is a
conservative member of Parliament and a former defense minister. He supported the leave campaign and he joins us now. Welcome to the program.
Are you surprised by the depth of the reaction around the world?
GERALD HOWARTH, CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: No, (inaudible) this has been a pretty seismic decision for the British people. It's been a
long time in the coming. I was one of those who campaigned four years ago for us to leave the EU, which was then called the (inaudible) Market and
has since become ever more of a European super (inaudible), which is why the people of Britain voted yesterday to leave.
I am surprised that Angela Merkel should be surprised, because she knows perfectly well, because the Prime Minister told her, that there is growing
skepticism in the United Kingdom, has been over many years, with the way the E.U. has been developing into the (inaudible). It's got a flag and
anthem, a Parliament, a currency, which, of course, has destroyed Greece and has brought about mass unemployment in other parts of Europe.
And for her to say that she is surprised and shocked, come on Chancellor Merkel, you know ...
AMANPOUR: ... I'm surprised that you're surprised and shocked by her reaction. Of course, your description of the E.U. would be unrecognizable
to many people. But let me ask you this. President Obama, obviously, America is one of Britain's closest and strongest allies and says the
relationship will continue. Others are looking around and one of the kinder comments by members of the economic establishment, for instance, is
that this is an extraordinary economic experiment by the British, a self- inflicted potential wound. Others are saying an extraordinary political blunder. How are you going to get beyond what many people - and you know
how the preponderance of the expert evidence and all your allies - it was a one-sided argument. Almost everybody believed that this shouldn't happen.
How are you going to get beyond that and have a divorce that is quick, that is not messy, and that keeps Britain intact economically?
HOWARTH: Well, Christiane, let's be quite clear. This is not an experiment. Do you know what? We've been here before. We only remember
this organization ...
AMANPOUR: ... Well, that's actually not true because this is the first time a country voluntarily exited from the EU, so it's not true.
HOWARTH: We're exiting from a 1950s construct, which has been strangling Europe and us, and we are going to embrace the wider world. We're going to
go back to where we were before, a free, sovereign nation, charting our own course in the world, and that's where we were until 40 years ago, and we
joined the - it is the E.U. which is the experiment because, of course, this is not a federation of states. Allegedly, these are sovereign nation
states which are being increasingly forced into a United States of America type construct.
AMANPOUR: So you know very well that the weight of reality means that the European Union is not going to ever close the union. In fact, the Germans
say that, even before this vote, that would not be right. And David Cameron did secure an (inaudible). Be that as it may, this is your view of
it, so the question really is, are you going to accept what the Europeans say, which is a quick divorce, none of this hanging around, waiting and
having your cake and eating it too.
HOWARTH: Well, it's entirely up to them. They export $70 billion pounds.
AMANPOUR: No, but the Article 50 clause, do you support a quickened action (ph) of that? The divorce proceedings?
HOWARTH: No, I don't. The Prime Minister was absolutely right today. I'm very encouraged that the Prime Minister did not seek immediately to invoke
Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, that for your viewers, is basically the means by which a country is able to secede from the European Union. So we
have to put the letter in saying we want to secede. From the moment you letter in ...
AMANPOUR: When do you think that letter should be put in?
[14:10:00]
HOWARTH: Well, as I was saying (ph), when you put the letter in, you then - the clock starts ticking, you've got two years.
AMANPOUR: Right.
HOWARTH: So I think it's absolutely right not to put the letter in now.
AMANPOUR: When should it be put in?
HOWARTH: After we've talked to our continental partners, and we've had a discussion about how we might do exactly what you have suggested which is
to have a friendly discussion about how we might invoke the mechanics, create the mechanics, for this is a new (inaudible), this is a new
arrangement. Nobody else has withdrawn from the EU, but I suspect others may follow us and soon.
AMANPOUR: Would that be a good thing?
HOWARTH: I think it might because then - the leaders are not listening to their own people. Our Prime Minister has listened to his people. That is
the irony.
AMANPOUR: Who do you think will succeed him? The odds are on Boris Johnson or Michael Gove. Who do you think should?
HOWARTH: Christiane, we have just been through the most seismic event, and we need to calm down. We need to relax a little bit and just kind of
assess where we are before the conservative party at a new leader. We don't know who the candidates are. We don't know who's going to put their
name forward. We don't know who wants to do it. There's no good - my suggesting a name to you now - there's actually ...
AMANPOUR: Would you accept Nigel Farage?
HOWARTH: Emphatically, no. He's not a member of the conservative party.
AMANPOUR: But he has been the face of this victory. Does that trouble you?
HOWARTH: I don't think he's been entirely; he's been a face.
AMANPOUR: All morning, all morning, he has claimed victory. We are winning the battle; we're winning the war.
HOWARTH: I think in fairness ...
AMANPOUR: But seriously, does that make you comfortable?
HOWARTH: Not particularly because I think - it's not accurate. I think out in the country there was really (inaudible) Nigel Farage does appeal to
people, but what I think has really, I think, appealed to people is the combination of Michael Gove, one of the most powerful intellects in our
country today and Boris Johnson, one of the most charismatic people, and I do want to add, leader of the labor presence, (inaudible) Stewart a labor
member of Parliament, born in Germany, speaks German, has been a fantastic advocate for Britain's leaving the European Union.
AMANPOUR: It has been an amazing day. Thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.
HOWARTH: Thank you for allowing me to join you.
AMANPOUR: Thank you. And when we come back, the latest market reaction to this unprecedented decision as stocks and the pound took nose dive around
the world. We'll have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to our program from Westminster. So how will the decision to leave the E.U. affect the U.K.'s global standing. I asked
Britain's Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond, who told me, in the immediate aftermath of the vote, the country's influence in the world, will be
diminished and the world more uncertain.
AMANPOUR: How is this in the annals of British history?
PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITAIN'S FOREIGN SECRETARY: It's pretty seismic. It's momentous morning. But look, we have to draw a line under the campaign
now. We always said, we were the party that advocated this referendum. We always said that we would carry out the instructions of the British people,
whatever those instructions were, and the British people have clearly spoken. So our job now, this morning, is to, in the short term, to try to
stabilize the markets, and in the medium term, to negotiate the best possible relationship we can with the European Union in the best interest
of the British people going forward.
[14:15:04]
AMANPOUR: You know; you say our job was to deliver the referendum. You know that there are huge numbers of people who say it's a self-inflected
wounded. David Cameron didn't need to do this. He could have just said for the good of the world, for the good of Britain, for the good of Europe,
no. We're going to continue with our strong economy, our employment and our strong security. Why did he take this risk?
HAMMOND: But this is a democracy, and you know, when you get governments and political party's saying, "I'll tell you what, we'll ignore what the
people are thinking, we know better, we'll do something else."
AMANPOUR: It was Nigel Farage who was pushing you for the right.
HAMMOND: I'm sorry, it was clear to us, that we - that the political elite no longer had a clear democratic mandate for our arrangements with the
European Union. We needed to test that. We needed to put the case again to the British people. The economic case, the security case, the case
about Britain's place in the world.
This is not Nigel Farage's victory. This is a much broader consensus that we've seen prevailing here, and I wouldn't like Britain going forward, and
I wouldn't like the British people going forward to think of itself as being presented in the image of Nigel Farage. Because, I know from my own
constituency, that many of the people who voted to leave the European Union yesterday, are perfectly respectable, mainstream British people. They
would not associate themselves with Nigel Farage, and they wouldn't want to be represented by Nigel Farage.
AMANPOUR: You have dealt with all these actors, all these leaders in the European Union. I mean, do you believe they're trying to give Britain an
easy ride into renegotiating all sorts of deals because they say publicly that, yes, of course, we respect what the British have done, but we don't
want this to be a contagion, and already you've got (inaudible) calling for referendums in their own (ph) country.
HAMMOND: Of course, this is the key issue that we've been trying to explain to people in Britain during the campaign, that it isn't that the
leaders of Europe will be vindictive towards us or wish us any ill will, it is simply that, as of this morning, their attention will move away from
Britain and to their own backyard. They will be looking at protecting their own interest, dealing with their own domestic political pressures,
and they will be driven by those considerations. Our interests will not feature anywhere on their radar screens. And that's the challenge for us.
But it's also clear, and you've mentioned a couple of European politicians this morning, it's also clear that we don't know what will happen inside
the European Union and the politics of other European countries. Clearly, there will be people across Europe looking at campaign in Britain, looking
at this result here, and, also, questioning the European settlement.
AMANPOUR: You know, the President of the United States was very clear when he came here about trade, but also about the value of Britain staying in
the EU. How will Britain's relationship with the U.S. just in terms of its influence?
HAMMOND: We will remain an important partner for the United States and a good friend with the United States, of course, we have a close security and
intelligence and defense relationship which is - which will endure, but look, we will just be that bit lower down the priority list of any U.S.
president in future because we're an important bilateral partner, but we won't have any influence on the U.S. relationship with the European Union,
which as the world's biggest economic trading block is a key relationship for any U.S. president.
AMANPOUR: And then, the flip side of that, you know, Britain was there helping to push sanctions on Russia, helping to put sanctions on Iran, you
know, having some kind of loud voice when it comes to China and all the other challenges you have, Europe will be weaker without that voice.
HAMMOND: Well, that is my big fear, and I've said that several times during this campaign. It isn't just about the fact that Britain was made
stronger by being a part of the European Union, in terms of things like sanctions against Russia, but I fear that, perhaps, my European colleagues
without our engagement, would not have been as robust as they have been and may not be as robust in the future.
AMANPOUR: And so what kind of world are we going to see out there?
HAMMOND: Well, I said during the campaign, I think it will be a more uncertain world. I don't want to over-exaggerate the case, but clearly, I
believe, or I wouldn't have been campaigning for Britain to remain, that being in the European Union gave Britain more leverage. I believe that
Britain's influence in the world is an influence for good, so being able to leverage that voice as an influence for good, I think, made the world a
more stable and safer place. And it will be slightly less so, as a consequence of this decision.
AMANPOUR: Many said that, you know, this is actually a referendum on immigration policy.
[14:20:00]
So two questions. What did the Prime Minister do wrong, did he not take into account immigration enough? And B, what is going to happen to
immigration policy now Britain is out of the EU?
HAMMOND: Well, precisely, we don't have any clear steer from the exit campaign as what they were expecting to happen. We heard a variety of
different ideas, Australian point systems, but we know that Australia has twice as many immigrants per head of population that we do in the U.K. So
I don't think that is going to be the answer for Britain.
But all of these things, we will now have to work out over the coming weeks and months. In terms of the campaign itself, I think we set out things as
we saw them, but there is a political reaction going on, and I don't think it's confined to Britain. I don't think it's confined to Europe. Indeed,
you've seen some of it in the United States which is a reaction, if you like, to some of the changes that we're seeing as a result of globalization
of the economy, and a lot of people who feel very disgruntled, very discontented by the impact of those changes on them.
Whether it's manifest through migration; whether it's manifest through fewer opportunities being available to them in the work place.
AMANPOUR: So then, what is the solution because, otherwise; we're going to have years of disgruntled people. What is the solution, then, to the
people who feel like they're shut out of this globalized world to people who feel that they don't share in the economy?
HAMMOND: Well, clearly, the medium to long-term solution is that within the developed world, we have to focus even more intently on upscaling our
people. We have to make sure that the next generation really is a generation of skilled people who are able to benefit from the globalization
of the economy. And in the short term, we have to protect those who find their interests adversely affected by globalization. What we can't do, is
unravel globalization. That isn't going to work.
AMANPOUR: So, here we are sitting in the same place where I conducted that interview with the foreign secretary just in the aftermath of the result
becoming clear. And in the intervening hours, we've had little ad hoc protests crop up around here in Parliament and, as you know, of course,
London went overwhelmingly for remain.
So you've got people who come here with an E.U. flag, posters, there's one behind me which says, "Ashamed to be British." You've got little protests,
sort of, cropping up as people digest this result, and, also, showing how divided this country is. Because really, London was the big part of
England that went for remain. Of course, with Scotland as well. The rest of England was very much in the leave camp.
Coming up next, we're going to discuss all of this and, again, Britain's role in the world now with a senior British Diplomate,
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. In an unprecedented move, Britain, as we know, has voted to leave the European Union, and so far, the reaction
has been, well, chaos. Markets across the globe have fallen on the news, and the pound has plummeted to lows which haven't been seen in three
decades. In addition, the British Prime Minister David Cameron said that he would leave his post in the coming months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I will do everything I can as prime minister to steady the ship over the coming weeks and months. But I do not
think it would be right for me to try to be the captain that steers our country to its next destination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Meantime, the opposition labor party pushed a motion of no confidence (ph) in their own, Jeremy Corbyn. Further north, Scotland voted
overwhelmingly for remain, and Scottish National Party is calling for a second independence referendum. Across Europe, Brexit has galvanized far-
right movements, while the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, also made the statement acknowledging the decision and rejecting comments by the remain
camp about Russia's stance on the Brexit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Statements made by Prime Minister David Cameron before this plebiscite where he spoke about Russia's position
to not have any grounds and never did. I think this is nothing else but an incorrect attempt to influence public opinion in his own country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: As you know, of course, David Cameron, had said one of the people who would have been popping champagne corks on a Brexit, would be
Vladimir Putin, so he's addressed that. Some enormous volatility in the world's financial markets, though, right now. And CNN's Rana Foroohar,
joins me from New York. Rana, thanks for being with us on this day. We saw all this volatility, is it recovering at all?
RANA FOROOHAR, ASSISTING MANAGING EDITOR FOR TIME MAGAZINE: Well, it's stabilizing a little bit, but I expect the next few days, weeks, and,
really, months to be quite volatile. I think that what may happen, given that the Fed, the U.S. central bank has come out and said, "Look, we're
going to stand behind markets. We're going to support markets." You may, by next week, start to see the U.S. markets moderate a little bit. Europe
will be more iffy, a lot of this is going to depend on whether the U.K. leaving is just one domino to fall in a Europe that is still struggling
with sclerotic growth, still has a debt crisis, and has far right and far left wing politics in many countries.
So Europe is still very fragile. If we start to get a sense that there are more countries that want to talk about leaving, then I think you're going
to see real trouble in the European markets.
AMANPOUR: Rana, thank you very much, indeed, a lot of political and economic volatility ahead. We're going to bring in our Fred Pleitgen.
He's in the Brexit heartland of Rumford in Essex, and he joins us now. Fred, what is the reaction there?
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rumford is one of those places, they actually had a really high voter turnout during the U.K.
referendum, Christiane, and the interesting thing about this place is that they voted almost 70 percent to leave the European Union, so this is one of
the places that is one of the most pro-BREXIT in the entire country here.
And we asked people, why exactly they voted that way. And here's what they said to us:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think, in a way, it's because the immigration, you know, the immigration factor, and people have just had enough, you know,
enough is enough. And I think everyone turned out and voted, so it is a great result.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think everybody is just fed up with being (inaudible) and setting our own laws, and just housing, (inaudible). I think everybody
has just had enough, and they just want to change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the end of the day, it's nearly half and half. Maybe half the population wants to stay and half wanted to go out. It's a
close call, personally, I'm quite excited about the future. It's one of those, if you had a crystal ball, and what would you know? We could be in
a bad place in 10 years. We could be in a much better place. Who knows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So one of the things that people said to us is they believe that immigration policy was something that really caused them to vote the way
that they did. Some of them also said they simply feel that the E.U. has impeded their economic chances in the workplace today. And it was
interesting, Christiane, because I honestly asked a couple of people whether they thought that the sort of slump that you're seeing in the pound
and the stock market, whether that was something they believed would be temporary or something that would go on.
A lot of them said, they didn't fear that this would hurt Britain's economy in the longer term. Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much for joining us from Essex there. And so interesting that the figures show that a lot of the areas in England
that rejected the EU, were ones where there is not much immigration. Whereas right here in London, which is a melting pot of so many different
ethnicities and nationalities, the reaction has been one of shock because this city voted overwhelmingly to remain.
And just five boroughs backed leave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm shocked, really, yes, I don't know what's going to happen. It seems very strange. I was worried for young people because
most young people voted to remain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really just can't say how happy I am. I've waited so long for this. I never wanted to join - become a market in the first
place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to live with the votes now and a million more people voted to be out than in, so we'll see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, was one of the strongest remain campaigners. He told me the country must now heal the divisions and that
London will never stop being an open-minded, outward-looking city.
What is your reaction today
SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON: We will recognize the will of the British people. They voted for us to leave the European Union. I mean, London
voted quite decisively to remain in the EU. (inaudible) Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the British public has spoken. My message to friends
and businesses and investors in America (inaudible) open-minded, outward- looking country. My message to the new prime minister will be it's really important, we will negotiate with the EU, (inaudible) we get a single
market access for our business, so use an American company, an investor, a business person, can sort of (inaudible) of access to the European Union.
What's really important is that we (inaudible) a leading global city.
AMANPOUR: But how is that going to happen because, obviously, this really puts London in threat, because the Brexiters, they say they don't want the
single market if the price is the free flow of people. That, they don't want, that's what this referendum was all about.
KHAN: Well, some of the questions that they weren't able to answer in the campaign was how they're going to negotiate a better deal with the E.U.
than we have as one of 28. (ph) Now that's the conundrum for them to solve. My message to the prime minister, whoever he or she is, it's
really, really important that London has a seat at the table. It's really important we have access to a single market.
My message to businesses, investors and friends and others in America (ph) is, I don't think for a second that we're going to stop being open-minded,
outward-looking. Don't think for a second we're going to stop the creativity and innovation in our city. And it's really important that the
message from (inaudible) is heard loud and clear. We are a great city. We're a great country. We're going to carry on in being so. (ph)
AMANPOUR: Is it the conservative party that elects a new leader and they de facto the new prime minister, or there's going to be new general
elections?
KHAN: So there's a recent (inaudible) which is when Tony Blair resigned as the leader of the Labor Party. The Labor Party then elected a new leader,
and he became the prime minister, Gordon Brown. And so constitutionally, there doesn't need to be a new general election. The government has a
five-year mandate. We're a fixed terrorism Parliament, so strictly speaking, a new conservative leader could be the prime minister for the
next three and half years.
I suspect that (inaudible) pressure him or her to have a general election to get a fresh mandate because that will be needed when it comes to
negotiations with European Union.
AMANPOUR: How does this country get back together again?
KHAN: What you see in the results across the country is Scotland, Northern Ireland and London voted one way, and the rest of the country voted another
way. The only region in England to vote to remain was London.
AMANPOUR: Which is the only region in England that actually has a lot of immigrants in. In many of these other parts ...
KHAN: And we're going to recognize that, you know, the phrase I have is, "A win is a win." But you're right, it was a very close win, it was split
down the middle. We're going to bring people together. We're going to now (inaudible) the tactics used by the winning party because they won.
There's no point in ...
AMANPOUR: So the lesson is that fear and hate win.
KHAN: The lesson is, is that the British public aren't happy with the European Union. We didn't do enough over the last few years to persuade
the British public of the benefits of the European Union. It's been a drip, drip, drip thing for the last 10, 20 or 30 years. The British prime
minister talks tough, goes to the E.U. to do a deal, comes back and then criticizes the EU.
Well, when there's a concession made, talks (inaudible) because of the British might. And I think a recourse over a period of time, the British
public have not seen the benefits of the EU. We've got to recognize those - the British public have chosen to leave and deal with the consequences.
And one of the consequences is, is how you bring people back together again.
And my message to European citizens, Europeanizes, is that we will respect you. We respect the work you do. We respect the hard work you do, the
taxes you pay, the contribution you make.
AMANPOUR: You mean citizens here.
KHAN: Absolutely right. And you know, you should be reassured that whatever happens in the deal, we will make sure that we recognize the
contribution you make.
AMANPOUR: We've seen the catalyst who instigated this referendum, that is Nigel Farage, who many people have complained has really driven those
politics of fear and demonization of the foreigner. He's the one that's claiming victory now. He is claiming victory. Will Nigel Farage
inevitably be part of Britain's political culture now? Accepted culture?
KHAN: Well, that's a question for the leave campaign is to answer. They can't run away from the fact that something's been unleashed during this
campaign. There are people who have lived here for 10 to 15 years, European citizens who, for the first time ever, been the victims of racial
abuse. There are people who have lived here for five, 10 years, Polish, German, Italian, French, Spanish, who, in the last few weeks and months,
have been uncomfortable because the atmosphere created by the campaign. It's not for (ph) the victors, the leave team, to reconcile what's been
unleashed. And my message is very simple, we better unite. Yes, you've won. We've got to make sure that we send the message we are (inaudible)
business. We are the great city in the greatest country in the world, but at the same time, bring our own people together.
AMANPOUR: A message to unite which may be easier said than done. Coming up next, I'm joined by the German politician, Elmar Brok; he's leader of
the foreign affairs committee in the European Parliament.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: U.S. President Barack Obama has spoken out about Brexit while visiting Stanford University in California. This is what he had to say:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I do think that yesterday's vote speaks to the ongoing changes and challenges
that are raised by globalization, but while the U.K.'s relationship with the E.U. will change, one thing that will not change, is the special
relationship that exists between our two nations. That will endure. The E.U. will remain one of our indispensable partners. Our NATO alliance will
remain a cornerstone of global security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So how will this work in practice? I'm joined now by the German politician, Elmar Brok. He's an MEP for Angela Merkel's Democratic Party,
and leader of the foreign affairs committee in the European Parliament. And he's coming to us now from Berlin.
Welcome to the program, so you just heard what the President of the United States said about sort of shifting alliances, and you also - we heard -
what your chancellor said about not being able to disguise her shock and about the way forward depends on how, not just Britain but you all activist
to contain this. Can you walk us through what you think is likely to happen in the immediate aftermath of this?
ELMAR BROK, GERMAN POLITICIAN MEP FOR ANGELA MERKEL'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY, LEADER OF THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE IN EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: I think we
have this Article 50, of the Treaty of Lisbon, our constitution that (inaudible) to leave is to ask for that, and we hope they do it as soon as
possible, and this divorce (inaudible) in a time of two years. Britain then can (inaudible) another type of relationship with European Union as a
third country.
AMANPOUR: Well, you say you hope it's done, you know, as soon as possible, I just spoke to a leading leave MP (ph) who say, "No, we don't want to do
it soon." I mean, there's all sorts of ideas that they may sort of pick and choose, a la carte, and take it really slowly. What will the E.U. tell
David Cameron when he comes to visit Brussels on Tuesday?
BROK: Well I think the pick and chooses is not possible. That would be a bad example for all the others, the (inaudible). We can only live if
everyone takes the same obligations. We have given (inaudible) this year to the United Kingdom. If they want to have only the benefits, then others
have to carry the obligation, this will not work, and, therefore, they will not get that. The European Parliament has always to give their consent on
that, and the European Parliament would never do that. I think this is the wrong way, and we would have an uncertainty, especially Britain would have
a lot of problems. We should make it clear cut and look for new relationships in a positive and constructive way and not to play that
special deeds on the behalf of others.
AMANPOUR: I hear you being very firm about what you think needs to happen. So what do you think the atmosphere will be like when Britain tries to
negotiate these special new relationships after the divorce? Is Europe going to be very welcoming of this, or is it going to be tougher than the
leavers tell everybody it's going to be?
BROK: I think we're all professionals, we have to live together and; therefore, it will be a positive negotiations and a clear-cut rule.
Britain has asked from outside as a third country and then we will do regular negotiations for (inaudible) trade agreement under fair conditions,
and that could be closer relationships like the Norwegian solution, but that would mean that Britain has to take on board every rule we decide for
the internal market without having any say in that, but including free movement of labor for Polish workers, for example, and I do not think that
Britain will ask for that, but if they were to do so, they welcome to do so.
AMANPOUR: So you say we have to be positive and mature about this, but do you believe this is going to give the E.U. a hit and/or give the U.K. a hit
economically and in any other way?
BROK: Well, I think we have all problems with that. To lose the United Kingdom to (inaudible) is not good for us, but even worse for the United
Kingdom. The 27 can live without the United Kingdom. It's not fine, but it's possible, but the United Kingdom will find out that it's pretty
isolated. It's relatively weak. No European is strong enough anymore in this global environment, politics and economics, therefore, together we are
strong, and Britain loses its position, and, therefore, President Obama a few weeks ago was right as he said, Britain, he likes a strong Britain. It
is especially strong because it is a member of the European Union. That was the right approach, but there was a lot of (ph) wrong arguments, a lot
of lies. It is an emotional battle of migration. It has nothing to do with Britain mixing up Syrian refugees with Polish workers. I think all
that (inaudible) and fair, emotional (inaudible) that now this Brexit people have to tell their people (inaudible) as a result of that
(inaudible) discussion they have to do it alone and not on our behalf.
AMANPOUR: You sound pretty gloomy there, MR. Brok. As (inaudible) said today and Tweeted, "Damn, this is a bad day." Is that how you're feeling?
BROK: It's a bad day, for sure, for both of us. Both Britain and the European Union, but it must be now a clear-cut solution and not for three,
four or five years a situation which is unclarified. It would be a disaster for all of us, and I think they have decided not to members, and
they cannot be members anymore. We take the decision of the British people serious and, otherwise, all the other countries would do also (inaudible)
such as, cherry picking contract. And at the end of the union there, and, therefore, we cannot do that. Nobody will follow that and, therefore,
Britain should not fall to the trap of another wrong tactic. (ph)
AMANPOUR: Well, we hear you loud and clear. Of course, we've also heard other countries say that they want to do precisely what Britain has done in
the aftermath of this vote. Thank you so much, Mr. Brok for joining us from Berlin.
BROK: (inaudible)
AMANPOUR: All right, we hear you. Thank you very much, indeed. Now, some are calling this Independence Day for the United Kingdom. So we're going
to look back at four decades of E.U. membership that has divided this country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program from Westminster and imagine a world where the United Kingdom is a divided kingdom today. The front pages of
Europe's newspaper are already doing it. Tomorrow's (inaudible) in France wishing us good luck and showing that famous image of Boris Johnson, the
(inaudible) next British prime minister, stuck on an Olympic zip-line. Our Nick Glass reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK GLASS, CNNI CORRESPONDENT: So, after 43 long years, the restlessness has found a voice. Britain has turned its back on Europe, a seismic
decision, but a vote that could have hardly been more divisive. The remain campaign in blue took Scotland, Northern Ireland and London, but the rest
of the country went red and voted to leave, a (inaudible) of stark division. We call it the United Kingdom, but after this, how united is it?
Britain's are split. Those who see themselves as British, those who see themselves as Europeans.
Britain joined the European Union in 1973, when there were just eight other members. The conservative prime minister, Edward Heath, signed the
document. Within two years, the new labor government was asking voters to think again should Britain be in or out?
Throughout the 43 years, the relationship has been intermittently fractious. Britain gained economically, but quarreled over money and
subsidies, not least under the leadership of another conservative prime minister, Margaret Thatcher.
In 1992, Britain stayed in the club, but declined to join the common currency, the euro.
CAMERON: It is time for the British people to have their say. It is time for us to settle this question about Britain and Europe.
GLASS: Cameron's evident motive was to quell the euro skeptic voices within his own party and make the case against the (inaudible), the far
right independence party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will be advocating, vote leave, or whatever the team (ph) is called.
GLASS: Superficially, the referendum was a story of blonde ambition, a political heavyweight, the conservative Boris Johnson, coming out for the
leave campaign. The cartoonists just reveled in it, rolling the dice, vote leave (inaudible) remained down the hill. Steaming down the line, Boris at
the controls of the Brexit express, an anxious Cameron wrote to the rails.
CAMERON: I believe that this Thursday could be our country's Independence Day.
GLASS: As a media story, the focus was the gladiatorial battle between conservative politicians, but the truth is Brexiters tapped into something
of genuine anxiety about immigration. This, in the middle of the greatest refugee in Europe since 1945. The campaign was sometimes bitter, sometimes
nasty. It stirred social divisions, between classes, between town and country, between old and young, between generations of the same family.
Back in 1975, when British voters last put an X to a ballot paper on Europe, there was a resounding yes in favor of membership. Sixty-seven
for, 33 percent against. What a profound shift now, 48.1 percent for staying in, 51.9 for leaving. No-one quite knew it until the question was
asked, Britain has quietly become utterly polarized over Europe, and this referendum has made it abundantly, transparently, divisively clear.
Nick Glass, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And we end with this statistic. Polls are showing that the young people here overwhelmingly voted to stay in, and yet, they have 69
years of life to live with this decision while the oldies, who voted overwhelmingly to get out, they have 16 years, on average, to live with
this decision. Think about that.
That's it for our program tonight. Thanks for watching. And good-night from Westminster.
[14:59:15]
END
