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Amanpour
U.N. Chief Nears the End of 10 Years in Office; Israeli PM Lashes Out at Investigative Journalist>
Aired November 22, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:00:00] BAN KI-MOON, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: It has been a great privilege and honor for me to serve this great organization, but it
has been quite tough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: An outgoing U.N. secretary-general and an incoming U.S. president. Ban Ki-moon on clashes of cooperation ahead.
Plus, as Trump blasts U.S. media chiefs for their election coverage, we go live to Jerusalem and top Israeli journalist Ilana Dayan under fire from
her government.
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour inside the U.N. General Assembly hall in New York. The world body
that deals with the toughest global issues like the ongoing war in Syria, like the historic refugee crisis, but also successes like the U.N. Climate
Change Accord and the Iran nuclear deal.
But now world leaders who usually fill these seats are wondering whether a new U.S. president, Donald Trump, will continue America's global leadership
role. And if not, how might a new world order take shape?
Who better to ask than the outgoing U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in this exclusive exit interview just before his decade long tenure ends at
the end of this year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Secretary-general, welcome to the program.
MOON: It's a great pleasure to see you. Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Ten years you've been in this office now. The first ever secretary-general told his successor, welcome to the most impossible job in
the world.
Do you agree?
MOON: I agree, but you may remember what I said at the beginning of my term, I will make this job mission impossible, mission possible. It has
been a great privilege and honor for me to serve this great organization, but it has been quite tough.
AMANPOUR: What would you say has been the very toughest? I mean, let's dive right in. Syria is perhaps -- could it be what you've become best
known for? What the world becomes best known for? The failure to deal with this terrible war right now?
MOON: It's really heartbreaking and it's very regrettable that we still see so many people, children and women are dying needlessly because of the
lack of political leadership and vision and humanity by the leaders of Syria. Then this may be recorded as one of the failures of the United
Nations, but it is sort of a collective failure.
AMANPOUR: If you could sum up, how will history judge the political leaders who make up this United Nations for the failure in Syria?
MOON: I'm afraid to say that they will judge the political leaders, they fail.
AMANPOUR: We're talking, as you end your term, a new American president will take office in the White House. There is a lot of uncertainty about
how he views America's role in the world. Have you spoken to him yet? And do you have a sense of how he views American leadership continuing forward?
MOON: I had good telephone talks with President-elect Donald Trump just three days after his election. And I have explained all the major issues
of the United Nations. The United States and United Nations share the same goals and ideas enshrined in the chart of the United Nations. The United
States is one of the most important -- (OFF-MIKE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Well, we hope to have more of that interview as soon as we get the technicalities worked out, so we're worry for that interruption.
But let's go now to Israel. Because as we said, Donald Trump has been in an adversarial relationship with a lot of the mainstream media here in the
United States.
He had an on-again, off-again, and the on-again meeting with "The New York Times" today and he had an explosive meeting with TV news bosses last
night.
And now he is also in a situation where Israel has said that its ministers may not meet with members of the Trump transition team without specific
permission from the Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu.
[14:05:03] In addition, the Israeli press is under fire from Prime Minister Netanyahu.
So we are going to go straight to Jerusalem and to Ilana Dayan. She is one of Israel's top news reporters and investigating reporters.
Ilana, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
ILANA DAYAN, ISRAEL'S TOP NEWS INVESTIGATING JOURNALIST: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: So first and foremost, I want to know from your perspective and the Israelis' perspective, what is the issue between the government and the
Trump administration?
In order words, why are members of the Israeli government being told not to conduct their own meetings or their own channels with the Trump transition
team right now?
DAYAN: I think for a change it's simply statements, leadership expression of Bibi Netanyahu who is, you know, headed towards, I guess, an organized
and well-planned relationship with the new administration. I wouldn't read too much into it. He doesn't want, you know, all sorts of ministers
conducting all sorts of private policies given that some of his ministers have slightly different views than his.
The other thing is, of course, that there was a great sigh of relief from the prime minister's office here in Jerusalem in a way given that Obama is
about to end his term. It's no secret that there was a kind of rocky relationship between Bibi Netanyahu and Donald Trump. And nobody really
knows where it's headed.
I mean, there was a strike feeling that there might be a new era in the relationship between at least Jerusalem and the White House. On the other
hand, nobody really knows where Trump is headed even with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
AMANPOUR: You know, Ilana, as you know, a lot of leaders and people around the world were quite sort of skeptical and concerned about a Trump
presidency, but as you say it was pretty welcome from the beginning even during the campaign from where you are in Israel.
However, given the whole focus on the so-called alt-right, the rise of Neo- Nazism and, indeed, anti-Semitism, we hear from members of your own establishment that they are very, very concerned about that. You must have
seen the video in which just a mile from the White House over the weekend, there was this alt-right conference with people literally doing the Nazi
salute, "Hail Trump, Hail victory."
How is that going down in Israel? Are they concerned?
DAYAN: I don't know if concerned is the right word, but there was a sudden shock, of course, seeing those videos of white supremacist and they hail
Trump and there are historic association which were not very pleasant. There was, you know, the appointment of Steve Bannon to be chief strategist
for the president in the White House although I heard that the Israeli ambassador to Washington was giving his blessing to this nomination. So
there is sort of confusion.
And, again, I think that from Netanyahu's point of view, Trump is supposed to be better news than Obama. I think that from Israel's point of view as
a whole, Trump is still a big secret and a cause for concern -- for concern at least when you hear those anti-Semitic overtones, which one cannot
really ignore.
AMANPOUR: And, Ilana, let me ask you this because you've been witnessing and watching, obviously, the adversarial relationship between Donald Trump
and what we like to call, or what I call the fact-based media. The main established organizations here in the United States.
You, yourself, are having a bit of a war of words, if that's all it is, with the prime minister. And I just want to play a little bit of a
broadside that he launched against you and then ask you why this is going on and you read it from outside his offices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAYAN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Ilana, for every reason that is extraordinary for the direct attack on you, and your integrity, and your political motives to the fact
that you, yourself, went out and courageously, if I might say, read it outside the prime minister's offices, why is this happening?
DAYAN: First of all, it was the official response that we got from the prime minister to an investigative piece that had to do with the revelation
of some malfunctions in his inner circle in the decision making process of the prime minister.
As far as we were concerned, it was legitimate, even good journalism as best as we can tell. And then we got this response. Now, obviously, it
wasn't easy to see, it wasn't easy to read it, it wasn't easy to deliver it on camera but, Christiane, when I had to try and, you know -- and relay to
you, where does it come from, I think Netanyahu has had a hate and hate relationship with the Israeli press ever since he was first elected prime
minister 20 years ago. And for him, it's constant combat.
[14:10:30] He is a warrior. He is taking on another fight every day, and the enemy can be Obama, can be Ahmadinejad, can be the Iranian nuclear
reactors and it can be the press.
It plays well with his political press -- with his political base, and in that sense Bibi is the original, Trump is the copycat.
And, you know, the only thing that I could tell to myself was that -- and I was thinking about it a lot ever since it happened, Netanyahu is not my
rival. I'm not a threat to Netanyahu. He is my prime minister and I'm covering him.
Again, I think that for Netanyahu, it's both a reaction that comes from hostility and form a grudge that he holds because there were times in which
he didn't get fair play from the media. One has to say that and one has to credit him that there was bias and there was kind of problematic coverage.
But as far as I'm concerned, nowadays, and that's something we do know, if I met him tonight, I would tell him, listen Netanyahu, you are my prime
minister, you are not my enemy. And that's why we read this response because it was in a way our way of saying exactly that.
AMANPOUR: Ilana Dayan, thank you so much, indeed. It does highlight a moment for the press in many democratic countries where there's this
pitting of a government against the press. So thanks so much for your side of that story. We continue to monitor it and thanks for joining us from
Jerusalem.
And when we come back, we're going to bring you the full Ban Ki-moon interview. Stand by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program. And now we can bring you the full interview with U.N. Secretary-general Ban Ki-moon as he prepares to exit at
the end of this year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Secretary-general, welcome to the program.
MOON: It's a great pleasure to see you. Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Ten years you've been in this office now. The first ever secretary-general told his successor, welcome to the most impossible job in
the world.
Do you agree?
MOON: I agree, but you may remember what I said at the beginning of my term, I will make this job mission impossible, mission possible. It has
been a great privilege and honor for me to serve this great organization, but it has been quite tough.
AMANPOUR: What would you say has been the very toughest? I mean, let's dive right in. Syria is perhaps -- could it be what you've become best
known for? What the world becomes best known for? The failure to deal with this terrible war right now?
MOON: It's really heartbreaking and it's very regrettable that we still see so many people, children and women are dying needlessly because of the
lack of political leadership and vision and humanity by the leaders of Syria. Then this may be recorded as one of the failures of the United
Nations, but it is sort of a collective failure.
[14:15:16] AMANPOUR: If you could sum up, how will history judge the political leaders who make up this United Nations for the failure in Syria?
MOON: I'm afraid to say that they will judge the political leaders, they fail.
AMANPOUR: We're talking, as you end your term, a new American president will take office in the White House. There is a lot of uncertainty about
how he views America's role in the world.
Have you spoken to him yet? And do you have a sense of how he views American leadership continuing forward?
MOON: I had good telephone talks with President-elect Donald Trump just three days after his election. And I have explained all the major issues
of the United Nations.
The United States and United Nations share the same goals and ideas enshrined in the charter of the United Nations. The United States is one
of the most important founding members of the United Nations, therefore, the United Nations -- the United States leadership working together, or
with the United Nations is crucially important. I'm confident that the President-elect Donald Trump will all be fully engaged with the United
Nations.
AMANPOUR: Well, you say that, but obviously there's looming clashes ahead. Most notably on one of your signature achievement and your pride and joy
and that is the eventual signing in Paris of the climate accords, which have come into effect.
You've heard what Donald Trump has said, that, you know, climate change is a hoax, that he would want to, you know, extract America from its
obligations under the treaty. Tell me how you feel.
You've just come back from a major conference on climate in Marrakech.
MOON: We have heard a lot of things have been talked, whether it is constructive or not constructive, during the electoral process. Having
said that, now that the election is over, he is now elected as future president of the United States.
As you said I'm just back from Marrakech, a very important meeting. We discuss a lot. What would be the implications of the U.S. administration
on climate change? Without any exception, including United States, there is a wholehearted support that this climate change agreement which was done
with the wholehearted support of the whole international community must be preserved, must be implemented. Now it's not only the government. The
people on the ground, civil society, faith humanity and also business communities, they demand it.
AMANPOUR: Are you convinced that the other big powers will stay involved and will continue to respect the accord even if the U.S. sort of steps
back?
MOON: I am more than confident that the whole world will be onboard and will fully implement this climate change agreement. I hope -- I will
discuss this matter with Donald Trump in the near future. The science has made it plainly clear through their five successive assessment reports
during the last years that climate change is happening and much, much faster than we may expect.
AMANPOUR: Another area of clash between the new U.S. administration and the United Nations could be the Iran deal. President-elect Trump has
called it the worst deal ever. And, obviously, there are people urging him to try to renegotiate or pull out.
MOON: Objectively speaking as the secretary-general, who has been really working hard to help the Iranian nuclear development issues resolved. I
believe that this agreement done by P5+1 Germany, that was a robust agreement. Then we have to respect this agreement.
I've been discussing this matter with Iranian authorities and they were also concerned that having agreed to this agreement, if there's any changes
or disruptive processes of this agreement, then it will take much, much longer time, during that time, who knows whether they happen again, then
I'm urging the world leaders to be committed to this agreement.
AMANPOUR: If the U.N. distinguished itself in anything, it is in the caring for refugees. It is an international obligation to care for war
refugees and we have seen over the last several years this rise of hatred towards refugees.
We've seen refugees and migrants being demonize in political campaign in Europe and the United States. It's the worst time in the world for
refugees right now.
Where do you see that going? And that could, again, be another clash between the new U.S. administration and the United Nations?
MOON: We have, first, more than 65 million people who are dispersed internally and refugees is the highest number of -- refugees and displaced
persons since the end of the Second World War.
(INAUDIBLE) a strong commitment for humanity and the respect to all refugees as a human being with full integrity. We have to reject
xenophobia, discrimination, whatsoever. They are the same human beings. They are most vulnerable group of people. We have to protect their human
rights and human dignity. That's a basic principle.
And I appreciate President Obama who has also taken an initiative by convening some meeting on the margins of the United Nations General
Assembly on September 10th, where I participated with European Union and United States and United Nations working together. I think we can solve
this problem.
AMANPOUR: One of the things that has been achieved here since you've been secretary-general is enshrining respect for LBGT rights. All sorts of
sexual orientations rights.
I heard a story about how you came to this issue, that you were petitioned by human rights groups and you told them, look, I'm a middle-aged Asian
man, this is uncomfortable for me.
Tell me then how you came to actually speaking about it in a speech and now enshrining those rights in the United Nations?
MOON: As you said and as you know, I have been raised in a very conservative society in Korea and most of the Asian countries having
influence to (INAUDIBLE) and very conservative.
Now having become secretary-general of the United Nations whose charter takes human rights and dignity as one of the most important pillars with
the security and the peace and development, this LBGT, whatever sexual orientation one may have, they are the same human being. Their human
rights and human dignity, and social, and political, and economic opportunity should be respected as equally as other people. That's a
simple fact. Simple fact.
Some people regard me as how come you have changed. But it's not that I have changed. I am solely committed to human rights principle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And when we come back, more from my interview with the United Nations chief Ban Ki-moon, imagining what's next for the world's leading
diplomat. He gives us an idea.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:26:12] AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, we imagine life after the United Nations for the first time Secretary-general Ban Ki-moon publicly ponders
moving from a global perch to something big at home in South Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: For your future, there is quite a lot of trouble in South Korea. President Park is undergoing some, you know, protests.
Do you think you could see yourself running for president?
MOON: First of all, as a secretary-general of the United Nations, I have still a lot of work to do. I'm going to devote all my time and energy as I
promised to the member states, to do my best until the very last day of my mandate. That is December 31st of this year.
After that, come January 1st, I will think about my own future, about me, about my family, about my country, what would be the best for me to serve
for my country.
I do not have any official comment as a secretary-general of the United Nations on a purely domestic issues, but as one of the citizens of Korea, I
would say that I have been closely following this situation with a grave concern.
I know that people are frustrated. I know that sometimes they are very angry for what had happened.
AMANPOUR: It sounds a lot like a political pitch to me.
MOON: As secretary-general of the United Nations, I have been very proud of Korea's contribution to peace and security and development of human
rights. I sincerely hope that Korea will continue to contribute to world peace and security.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: So watch this space. And that is it for our program tonight. And, remember, you can always listen to our podcast. You can see us online
at Amanpour.com, and you can follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thanks for watching and good-bye from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
