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Interview with Former U.S. House Republican and "White Flag with Joe Walsh" host Joe Walsh; Interview with Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Senior Fellow Karim Sadjadpour; Interview with Centre for Economics and Business Research, U.K. Government Economic Service Former Joint Head and Economist Vicky Pryce; Interview with 17-Year-Old Aviator Attempting to Break World Record Mark Rutherford. Aired 1:00-2p ET

Aired August 17, 2022 - 13:00:00   ET




SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hello everyone and welcome to "Amanpour". Here's what's coming up.


REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): The path was clear. But it would've required that I go along with President Trump's lie about the 2020 election.


SIDNER: She defied Trump party lines and lost. But did veteran conservative politician Liz Cheney hint at a run for president herself?

What her loss in Wyoming tells us about where the Republican Party is headed.

Plus, final offer on a nuclear deal with Iran. But will Tehran agree? The latest with region expert Karim Sadjadpour.

And inflation in the U.K. at record levels. Look at what's pushing up the cost of living in Britain and around the world. Then --


PAT MULROY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, SOUTHERN NEVADA WATER AUTHORITY: If we have another lousy winner, all things being equal, that we will drive this

lake down to elevation 1,000.


SIDNER: Low water levels, huge problems. Correspondent Bill Weir on what the extreme drought means for people and business.

Welcome to the program. I'm Sara Sidner in New York, sitting in for Christiane Amanpour.

It was a primary with immense ramifications for the future of the Republican Party. The perils of crossing former President Donald Trump on

full display last night in the State of Wyoming. Liz Cheney, a veteran Republican and daughter of former vice president, soundly defeated at the

polls by a little-known but Trump-backed candidate Harriet Hageman.

Cheney had become a rare local critic of the former president in her party and a member of the house committee investigating the January 6th

insurrection. In her concession speech, she stayed on message.


LIZ CHENEY, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Our republic relies upon the goodwill of all candidates for office. To accept honorably the outcome of elections.

And tonight, Harriet Hageman has received the most votes in this primary. She won. I called her to concede the race. This primary election is over.

But now, the real work begins.


SIDNER: But is Liz Cheney political career over? She is now saying she's thinking about running in the 2024 presidential election. But where does

her loss leave the GOP? To answer that question, my first guest today is Joe Walsh. He is a former Republican congressman and host of podcast,

"White Flag with Joe Walsh". And he's joining me now from Washington.

Joe, welcome to the show.


SIDNER: All right. This was a big one. Liz Cheney is a Republican rock star or has been for a very long time. She's known as a lifelong

conservative and yet, she has been voted out of office in a route by her opponent, as we mentioned Harriet Hageman, who won 66 percent of the vote

to Cheney's 29 percent. Her popularity -- Cheney's popularity with Republican in the State of Wyoming definitely fell off a cliff, as you

know, after she voted to impeach Donald Trump over the attack on the U.S. Capital.

So, for international audience and, frankly, for the country here in the States, what is the significance of Liz Cheney's loss?

WALSH: It reminds us, Sara, that this is Donald Trump's party and it's not Liz Cheney's party. Look, for Republicans, if you are a Trump cheerleader,

you've got a really great future in the Republican Party. If you're a Trump enabler, you've got a future. But if you publicly stand against Trump as a

Republican, you have zero future in this party.

I know this, Sara, and I realized it two years ago. I think Liz Cheney realizes that now. This party can't be saved and Liz really has no

constituency in the party.

SIDNER: Let's talk about what she did. Because Liz Cheney made opposition to Donald Trump and his election lie the centerpiece of her campaign. And I

want to show you an expert -- an excerpt from campaign ad that features her father, as everyone in the States knows, is former Vice President Dick



DICK CHENEY, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: In our nation's 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic

than Donald Trump. He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters have rejected him.


He is a coward. A real man wouldn't lie to his supporters. He lost his election and he lost big.


SIDNER: Two-thirds of Wyoming Republicans seemed to reject that message and I want to point something out because you just said something very

similar. The Lincoln Project, which is a group of Republicans who have opposed Trump from the beginning wrote that Liz Cheney's defeat marks the

end of the Republican Party. And they claim that all that remains of this party now is a pro-Trump, in their words, cult. Is that an exaggeration?

WALSH: Sara, it's been a cult now for five or six years. Look, the Republican Party officially died right after January 6th. I mean, Donald

Trump led an effort to violently overthrow an American election. And yet, the party stuck with him. And Republican voters stuck with him. That's when

the fate of the Republican Party, Sara, was sealed. It's a party that can no longer handle truth. Liz Cheney rightly put the truth in front of

Republican voters in Wyoming and they overwhelmingly rejected it. That's hard to accept but that's the truth right now.

SIDNER: Let's listen a little bit to what Liz Cheney said because she talked about -- she almost, sort of, compared herself to Lincoln talking

about the party as a whole and the importance of leadership. And I want to listen to a little bit of what she said during her speech last night, her

concession speech.


L. CHENEY: Speaking at Gettysburg of the great task remaining before us, Lincoln said that we hear highly resolved that these dead shall not have

died in vain. That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. And that government of the people, by the people, and for the

people shall not perish from this Earth. As we meet here tonight, that remains our greatest and most important task.


SIDNER: Is this a hint that she is going to run in 2024 as a Republican for the presidency?

WALSH: Well, first off, what courage, what immense courage that woman has. She did the right thing knowing -- she knew she was going to lose. And yet,

she still did the right thing. Here's what we know about Liz Cheney. She has said, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure Donald Trump

doesn't become president again.

There are many of us trying to do the same thing. Whether that means she's going to run for president or not, she's got to decide that. But you know

what's, Sara? Running for president as a Republican, she has no constituency in the Republican Party. She could decide to run as an

independent but that might help Donald Trump. I actually believe that all of us former Republicans right now, if we believe Donald Trump is an

existential threat to this democracy, then we have to support Democrats right now. They're the only ones, the Democratic nominee for president in

'24 will be the only person who can defeat Trump. I think Liz will understand that.

SIDNER: Joe Walsh, I got to tell you, hearing you say, as a longtime Republican, that the only choice is to vote for Democrats, is truly

shocking. And I want to bring up your past.


SIDNER: Which I know people discuss. You were a Tea Party member. You went after President Obama when he was in office, questioning things like his

religion. You sometimes express hatred for your political opponents. And in 2016, I remember your quote. You said, "If Trump loses, I'm grabbing my

musket." So, do you, yourself, regret helping usher in the Trump era politics?

WALSH: Oh gosh, yes, Sara. In fact, I have publicly, now for the past four to five years apologized for the role that I played in helping to lead

Trump. When I mounted my mission impossible primary challenge to Trump in 2020. That's most of what I talked about. Much of the ugly politics that

people like me engaged in helps to radicalize Republican voters. And that radicalization is what led to Trump and now they're fully radicalized. They

denied truths and they no longer believe in democracy. I've made it my mission, Sara, to do everything I can for the rest of my life to make up

for that and defeat what this party has become.


SIDNER: It's quite a turnaround, Joe Walsh, for you and for Liz Cheney just from where -- from once she came voting for Donald Trump.


SIDNER: Not with him. 93 percent of the time, she voted for Trump policies. I want to talk about her opponent. Who is now the winner of her

seat, Harriet Hageman. Let's let let you hear, in her own words, what her take is on where Liz Cheney went wrong.


HARRIET HAGEMAN, WYOMING REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR U.S. HOUSE: Wyoming has drawn a line in the sand that if we put you in power, you will be

accountable to us, you will answer to us, and you will do what is in our best interest. And if you don't, we will fire you. Wyoming has put the

politicians on notice, not just here but, all across this great country that our representatives work for us and not the other way around.


SIDNER: OK. So, here we are. Liz Cheney conceded. She lost the vote. She lost very big. Hageman won the vote and now she's going to take the seat.

Isn't this the way that politics works? And she herself said look, if you're not going to represent us, we are going to kick you out of office.

This is how democracy works, correct?

WALSH: Oh, absolutely, Sara. And at one level, this makes perfect sense. The vast majority of Republicans in Wyoming disagree with Liz Cheney. So,

she can't represent them. But let's not forget the fact that Harriet Hageman, the woman who beat Liz last night, is an election denier. And the

vast majority of Republicans, being elected in States all over this country, are election deniers. Not accepting basic election results. Donald

Trump is an election denier. This is what the Republican Party has become. And I'll tell you what, and I know Liz feels this way. If you are an

election denier, you're an enemy of our democracy.

SIDNER: Joe, can I ask you where this is all going? You just mentioned a litany of people who have lost their seat because Donald Trump has backed

them. Most of them deny that the 2020 election was free and fair, even though there is no evidence that it wasn't. And ultimately, where are we

headed in this country? If all of these people, including secretaries of state who certify elections State by State, who are running on this idea of

an election lie, where is this country headed? Where is this democracy headed?

WALSH: Sara, everybody listening to us around the world right now needs to understand that one of America's two major political parties is now fully

anti-democracy. They are fully pro-authoritarianism. This is a scary moment in American history. I'm a dark Irishman. I don't think it's going to get

better anytime soon.

I think the Republican Party is on this dark, anti-democracy path. And the only thing that can save us is crazy conservatives, like me, locking arms

with progressives, Democrats, and independents to fight back against what my former party has become because there are more of us than them.

SIDNER: I want to talk about another race that was -- is going on last night. They have ranked voting which is a little bit different. But Senator

Lisa Murkowski of Alaska did eke out a narrow lead. She's ahead of the pack. She also voted to remove Donald Trump from office after January 6th.

The only Senate Republican who did so.

What's different here? You've got folks in Wyoming who are saying absolutely no to Liz Cheney and yes to the Republican voters and yes to

this idea that the election wasn't free and fair. And then you have folks in Alaska who have a longtime Republican senator who seemed to be, and it's

not quite -- it's over yet, but it would seem to be saying yes to Senator Murkowski.

WALSH: Well, what's different in America is that every State runs their elections differently. And in Alaska, they don't have partisan primaries.

They have open primaries, rank choice voting. So, when you go into vote in Alaska, you vote for your first choice, your second choice, in your third

choice. If Lisa Murkowski, who's a public opponent of Donald Trump, had to run in a typical partisan primary i.e. against another pro-Trump

Republican, she would have lost in Alaska. But the way they run their elections in Alaska has really helped her.

SIDNER: Just of curiosity, going back to Liz Cheney. As you said, she likely knew that she was probably going to lose her seat.


And I want to give you a sense of how she is kind of trying to speak to the moment and to speak to the historic moment that she finds herself in, not

just to the Wyoming of voters. I want to let you hear her at a public hearing of the January 6th Committee, this was back in June.


L. CHENEY: In our country, we don't swear an oath to an individual or a political party. We take our oath to defend the United States constitution.

And that oath must mean something. Tonight, I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. There will come a day when

Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.


SIDNER: There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone. But will his kind of politics actually be swept away too? Because it's not just the man, it's

the ideas as well.

WALSH: Again, Sara, a woman of immense courage and a party of cowards. Yes, Trump, what Trump is, what he isn't he stands for, the ugliness, the

bigotry, the nationalism, the authoritarianism, that spread beyond Trump. This is now where the party is.

If Donald Trump went away tomorrow, Ron DeSantis or the governor of Florida, or some Republican who is as Trumpy as Trump, is going to lead

this party. But principled conservatives like myself and Liz Cheney, who oppose what this party has become, there's no future in this party for us.

So, yes, it has the ugliness and the anti-democracy thread has metastasized beyond Trump.

SIDNER: Joe Walsh, I really appreciate your time and your insight on what is a historic moment in the country.

WALSH: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: Coming up after the break, inching ever closer to a new Iran nuclear deal. Iran's response to the latest draft, putting a potential

agreement on the horizon.


SIDNER: Welcome back, the shadow of former President Donald Trump looms large in American politics. And it extends all the way to Iran, where the

country is still in tense negotiations with the west on reviving the nuclear deal Trump accident in 2018. The European Union has now made what

it says is a final offer to Tehran. So, will the Iranians take it?

Karim Sadjadpour is an Iran scholar and senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace. And he is joining me now from Washington D.C. We have

discussed the Iran deal many times on the show over the years.


You whore a fascinating piece on "The New York Times". The title was, what the U.S. gets wrong about Iran. The essence was that the Iranian regime

thrives off isolation. Trying to continuously engage them could backfire.

I want to read a few lines of what you wrote. You wrote, Mr. Khamenei understands that the greater danger to his theocracy is not global

isolation but global integration. When that isolation becomes too debilitating, Mr. Khamenei is willing to consider a tactical deal to serve

as a release valve. For Mr. Khamenei, the ideal position is just the right amount of isolation. So, I must ask you, should the United States and

Europe be trying to revive the Iran deal in the first place?

KARIM SADJADPOUR, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: I think, Sara, trying to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear

weapon and subjecting Iran's nuclear program to more transparency is a very worthy goal. But I think we should simply have realistic expectations. In

my view, this is not a negotiation for war or peace.

If indeed, the nuclear deal is revived with Iran, we're going to continue to be in a state of cold war with Iran and Iran is going to use a lot of

those proceeds from sanctions relief to fund groups which are opposed to the United States and U.S. allies in the Middle East. That's not an

argument, necessarily, against the deal. But I think, again, we have to have realistic expectations about what a revival of the nuclear deal

actually achieves.

SIDNER: Can you give me an example of what you mean about just the right amount of isolation that you feel Iran wants to be in this position where

it's straddling isolation so it can, what, talk to its people and say, look what they're doing to us. Is that the idea?

SADJADPOUR: You know, Sara, the most interesting insight, I think, from my piece, was not from me. It was something which the actor Sean Penn told me

many years ago. He said that the Cuban -- the late Cuban leader, Fidel Castro, once joked to him that if America were to ever remove the embargo

against Cuba, he, Fidel, would do something provocative the next day to get it reinstated. Because he understands that his authority is best preserved

in a bubble, sequestered from the forces of international capitalism and international civil society.

And I think very similarly, the Iranian regime is a theocracy. You know, it's ruled by someone called the supreme leader, who purports to be the

Prophet Muhammad's representative on Earth. That's not a really winning formula in the 21st century, especially for a young, modern Iranian


So, I think that Ayatollah Khamenei certainly fears rapprochement with the United States. He wants the United States as an adversary. But he also

wants to be able to sell his oil. And I think that is the bottom line to keep the Iranian regime and its economy sustainable. They want to be able

to sell their oil to Europe and to China. And to get the proceeds of that oil. They're not interested in really opening up to the world though.

SIDNER: But -- you talk about energy. And the war in Ukraine has meant that China and India are buying Iranian oil. And Iran isn't feeling the

pinch quite as severely as they might. At the same time, the entire world is dealing with this energy crisis, high prices. Do you think that this

added pressure on the west is forcing them to say, we've got to get this deal done?

SADJADPOUR: I think that's an element of it. And it's an element of why Iran, perhaps, is overplaying its hand or it feels overconfident that the

world needs energy so much now in the aftermath of Russians -- Russia's invasion of Ukraine. That Iran can continue to hold out and take a tough

line and try to extract more concessions.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about some of the criticism, and it's very recent of what is happening with the Iran deal and whether it should

happen. Folks, political leaders across the spectrum in different countries are saying this deal shouldn't be made. And they point now, as they have in

the past, to Iran's movement and terroristic acts.

And just lately a shocking act of a person who is clearly following, sort of, this idea, the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, the famed author who had a

fatwa put up against him by the Iranian leadership. And after the attack, Iran was gloating, basically blaming the attack on Rushdie himself. Do you

anticipate that this will be a huge talking point to try and unfurl, unravel, this Iran nuclear deal?

SADJADPOUR: Listen, Sara, the Iranian regime is an odious regime. It is holding one of my close friends, a 20 years hostage right now, Siamak

Namazi, an American citizen who is actually encouraged by the government of Iran to go back to Iran to try to help facilitate foreign investment and

they threw him in jail and they robbed him of seven years of his life.


And they used their oil revenue to fund hate and terror throughout the Middle East.

The question is, is there an alternative, is there a good viable alternative to a negotiated resolution of the nuclear deal? And I want to

emphasize that revolution doesn't mean that the issue is resolved forever. We're essentially trying to buy time, five, 10, 15 years until hopefully

there is a political transformation inside of Iran.

We know about dictatorships that, you know, they are not sustainable forever. But I do think trying to prevent them from acquiring an advanced

nuclear weapons capability is a worthy diplomatic goal. I would also argue that this U.S. administration has not been as adept as previous U.S.

administrations, in particular the Obama administration, in trying to achieve this goal.

SIDNER: Even though this administration was part of the Obama administration, Joe Biden was his vice president. I do want to talk about

Iran's foreign minister saying that it is ready to swap prisoners. That was said today. One American detained there, Siamak Namazi, said that our faith

is under the nuclear talks. And our freedom is contingent upon their success. His father has also been detained.

Do you agree that potentially the fate of some of these Americans detained in Iran rests on whether or not this nuclear deal comes to fruition?

SADJADPOUR: Well. that is the fear that people like Siamak and the other U.S. hostages in Iran have. which is that their fate is tied to the

resolution of this nuclear deal. And if the nuclear deal is not signed, they will continue to rot inside of an Iranian prison. And so, I think

that, you know, their goal is for the United States to disassociate or detach these issues and make them a priority. I've spoken to Siamak's

family, and there was a list and the United States has enormous leverage over Iran.

Iran really can't reverse its economic decline. Absent to removal of U.S. sanctions. But the existing U.S. sanctions haven't -- aren't being

enforced. And for that reason, among others, Iran, I don't think has the same sense of urgency right now that they had in 2015 to sign the nuclear


SIDNER: Does Iran have a bit more of an upper hand in that? This deal was made, and then it was reneged upon by the former administration, the Trump

administration. And they can flatly say, you're the ones that walked away. We had agreed.

SADJADPOUR: Yes and no. I think at the same time, Sara, I think that much of the world blames the United States for pulling out of the deal. But

we're now, you know, 18 months into the Biden administration's efforts to try to renegotiate this deal or revive the deal. And I think it's pretty

clear to -- certainly, our European allies, our Middle East partners, many of our partners in Asia, that the obstacle here is not Washington. The

obstacle is Tehran.

And frankly, I think, that there actually is, to some extent, a Russian interest. And I'm not saying Iran emerged from its economic isolation

because whether or not Iran does emerge from economic isolation, it may start to compete with Russia in global oil and gas markets. So, I think

actually Russia has very cynical interests here. And not necessarily wanting this issue to be resolved anytime soon.

SIDNER: Iran has said that it wants a revolutionary guard removed from the U.S. terror list. The U.S., obviously, adamant that that is absolutely not

on the table. But do you expect that the U.S. will agree to any form of compensation, so to speak?

SADJADPOUR: Well, this is what is being hashed out at the moment. Iran wants reassurances that if future U.S. -- future U.S. administration, like

the Trump administration, withdraws from the agreement, that Iran would be compensated. I would argue, Sara, that the bigger issue here is the

ideology of the Iranian regime.

Its official slogans are death to America, death to Israel. That's not going to change as long as this current Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei

is leader. He's 83 years old. He's not going to change who he is. And so, there is going to continue to be profound mistrust and the cold war between

America and Iran. And if President Biden tries to offer Iran certain reassurances, I think it makes it even more difficult for him to sell this

deal domestically. Not only to Republicans, of whom probably, they're the only ones supporter of this deal in the Senate, Rand Paul.

But even too fellow Democrats like the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez. So, this is a tough sell for President Biden,

domestically, to offer Iran any additional concessions.


SIDNER: All right. Karim Sadjadpour, thank you so much for coming on the program.

SADJADPOUR: Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: Next, inflation is crushing family financials. It's a crisis the whole world is facing at the moment. But it's particularly acute in the

U.K., where inflation has risen into the double digits at 10.1 percent in the month of July. Boosted by the soaring cost of basics like bread and

milk, it's the highest rate since 1982.

So, what is behind this and who will suffer the most? And is the U.K. a canary in the coal mine for the wilder world? Joining me now with answers

is economists and author Vicky Pryce.

Thank you and welcome to the program.


SIDNER: I just wonder from you, if you are at all surprised by today's numbers. We are now passed 10 percent inflation in the U.K. I think it's

only happened four times in 70 years.

PRYCE: Well, it's a bit of a shock for everybody, including most economists, who thought, yes, inflation would rise, maybe to 9.8 percent,

but they didn't think that it would surpass 10 and be now in double digits already. Because, of course, we are expecting some big boost to inflation

to come in October when the electricity cap.

That is the way in which the average household is charged for electricity, which has to take into account the wholesale prices of gas in particular

that has taken place over previous period that is calculated. And that one is meant to be coming up in October. And that's when people thought, maybe

we'll get to the double figures then. We've got them much earlier than anyone had expected.

SIDNER: Let's look and just how prices of goods have risen over the past 12 months in the U.K., because then you really get a sense of just how

shocking this is. Gas, 95.7 percent. Electricity up 54 percent. Low fat milk, 34 percent. Butter, 27 percent. I mean, you go down this list and

many of these things are things that you need in everyday life to sustain not only life but just sort of going about your business.

So, what does this mean to the average citizen in the U.K.?

PRYCE: Well, the truth is, I'm afraid, that real living standards are dropping. What we saw in some data which came out almost the same time as

inflation data a day earlier was that wages, although rising, are not keeping up with inflation, and there, in fact, falling in real terms by 3

percent, which is quite significant if you look at the latest three months over the three months of the previous year.

So, that means that people are getting poorer without any doubt. Now, there are quite a lot of savings that they can use and have been using to

continue buying the things that they need. And this summer, of course, we've spent quite a lot. There have been all sorts of celebrations and

jubilee celebrations, of course, in June. And then, of course, it's the summer when people are allowed to travel properly. And they've been trying

to do so without the COVID restrictions, but there have been loads and loads of other problems, of course. Travel chaos has emerged as a result.

So, they've been doing this for the moment, but there is no doubt that as things are getting a tougher and real living standards are being seriously

squeeze, they're going to be cutting back. So, the expectation is that after some reasonable summer, we're going to be moving into recession in

the following quarter and then, again, in the winter quarter.

So, not good news. But we're not the only country that is going through this. We may have a peculiar system of increasing cost to the households

for the energy bills. But there are loads of other countries in Europe which are seeing high gas prices, high food prices, all having an impact.

And interestingly enough, if you look at wages in Europe, even though their inflation is lower, they're not picking up as fast as, in normal terms, as

the ones in the U.K. So, I am suspecting that there are similar problems elsewhere.

SIDNER: I do want to sort of mention what is happening among the G7. The U.K.'s inflation for July appears to be a little bit of an outlier. You had

inflation about 8.5 percent in the United States, Canada, Germany and Italy which though slowed in July. France is at about 6.1 percent.

So, what is making the U.K. inflation go so high compared to other G7 countries and what is the government doing about it?

PRYCE: A very good question. In fact, both very good questions. Of course, a color (ph) of concern that, in fact, Brexiteers contributed to it.

Because of course, our supply chain problems have been much worse than would other countries have experienced.


So, we've had huge costs on -- certainly on exports and also quite a lot of problems in terms of imported goods coming in, which have become more

expensive. There is a lot of bureaucracy involved and there is a serious issue about ability to access the goods that we were accessing before. And,

of course, manufacturing and others have been affected worse than other countries. So, that's one element.

The other one is this peculiar way in which we have -- put all those costs of energy onto the consumer. Whereas other countries haven't done that to

the extent that we have done, you mentioned also, you know, France being -- that are very low in terms of its inflation rate. What they have done there

is, of course, they have forced their main major energy company, which is based on nuclear mostly, of course, to keep increases for households to

just 4 percent over the whole year. That, of course, has kept inflation reasonably low.

And in lots of other countries too, there have been tax cuts, there have been taking away -- particularly in Germany, which is really quite

interesting, also the Green Levy, that electricity bills have had imposed on them. So, there is been a general attempt to keep those costs to the

consumer low. There's been very little of that, except transferring some money that knows need to most to be able to afford it in the U.K. And

that's something that absolutely needs to be taken care of when we have a new leader.

And for the moment, neither of the two programs that they're announcing are going to do an awful lot about tackling the issue quickly and directly.

SIDNER: Yes. So, you brought up two big buzzwords. One is Brexit, the other is recession. So, when it comes to recession, this is never good for

any politician. Why are we not hearing the leadership and the upcoming leadership in the U.K. coming out and dealing with this, talking about it,

making moves? Doesn't this hurt the party in power?

PRYCE: It does. And if they don't tackle the whole issue and they don't make sure that the economy actually grows at a reasonable rate in the

future and then, we do not fall into our session, then you begin to wonder what's going to happen over the next elections.

However, one of the two contestants for the top job, Liz Truss, who is now the foreign secretary, has been talking about encouraging growth. And that

some of the forecasts which are coming up by the Bank of England and others, which are predicting recession or no growth certainly for many

quarters between now and the end of 2023, she is saying that they are not necessarily correct, and that we could do something about the growth.

And her idea is, let's reduce taxes. Well, a lot of people who don't pay taxes anyways and those people are hurt because they're the ones at the

lower end of the income scale. They either don't work or they're at the low pay areas where this tax changes and could make any difference to them. So,

they need a lot, lot more direct help.

And if you squeeze living standards, then don't allow people to spend as they could otherwise. And that, of course, does bring that recession with

it. And I'm not sure how easy it is to win elections if you are in the middle of a recession.

So, I think there will be an emergency budget and I think there will be, once we have a leader on September the 5th, and then, there will be a lot

more help than anyone has imagined coming to individuals. And the government is simply going to have to borrow more, like everyone else is

doing, a little bit like what we did during COVID.

SIDNER: Single people, families, everyone is feeling it. I thank you so much, economist and author, Vicky Pryce,l thank you for being here.

And still to come tonight, rivers and lakes drying up across the world. We look at the impact of drought on us all as mitigation measures are falling




SIDNER: Welcome back. This week, the United States made the largest climate investment in its history. With this stroke of a pen on Tuesday,

President Biden sealing in efforts to reduce carbon emissions by up to 40 percent over the next eight years. It's bitterly poetic that it comes at a

time when the world faces extreme heat and major droughts in Europe.

The River Rhine is so low, there are fears it will impact industry. While record heat in the U.S. is drying up famed Colorado River. Something which

supplies water to millions of people. Our Bill Weir has this report on the terrifying consequences if action is not taken.


BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting. That supposed Mark Twain quote has been a

western slogan since the first settlers. But now, the worst drought in 1,200 years as water managers in seven states, 30 tribal nations and Mexico

fighting over every precious drop.

CAMILE TOURON, COMMISSIONER, BUREAU OF RECLAMATION: But to-date, the states collectively have not identified and adopted specific actions of

sufficient magnitude that would stabilize the system.

WEIR (voiceover): That was a commissioner in charge of dams and reservoirs, admitting that upper and lower basin states have failed to

agree on ways to cut their water use by up to 25 percent.

PAT MULROY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, SOUTHERN NEVADA WATER AUTHORITY: I think, ultimately, the states are going to realize they are playing Russian

roulette. And they are going to have to come to their senses.

WEIR (voiceover): For almost 30, years Pat Mulroy was in charge of Southern Nevada's water and let an aggressive conservation campaign to tear

up lawns, reuse wastewater, and scold water wasters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't water in the middle of the day, ma'am. You'll be fined if you don't change your watering clock.

WEIR (voiceover): All measures she would like to see happened downstream.

MULROY: I think they are kind of kicking the can down the road past the election, if you want me to be very frank about it. I do not think anybody

wants to make great public announcements about measures they may have to take prior to the election.

WEIR (voiceover): Rather than enforce new action, the feds will let the states keep talking while the next round of automatic cuts will lower water

delivery by 7 percent to Mexico, 8 percent in Nevada, and 21 percent to Arizona.

MULROY: You can hear this crunching. It's just starting to dry up.

WEIR (voiceover): Here, Alfalfa farmers are already being paid to let their fields go fallow. While some are switching to crops like guayule, a

rubber plant that grows in the desert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crop switching, looking at lower water used crops like guayule is one of the solutions we need to be looking at in a drier future

to allow communities to sustain themselves.

WEIR (voiceover): Thanks to some sustainable water accounting, California will not face mandatory cuts next year, but their governor has already

warning of a future with a lot more people and a lot less water.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): The science and the data leads us to now understand that we will lose 10 percent of our water supply by 2040. If all

things are equal, we will lose an additional 10 percent of our supply by 2040.

MULROY: We have the very real possibility, this coming year, if we have another lousy winter, all things being equal, that we will drive this lake

down to elevation 1,000. That is 100 feet above dead pool and you are at the bottom of the martini glass. So, it doesn't take much to tip that over

and get to the point where nothing can go downstream.

And if you do not take it seriously now, if you think that you are going to avoid this, do a rain dance, go pray, do whatever, that we have a great

winner, you are insane.



SIDNER: And CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir joins me now from Lake Mead, Nevada. My goodness. Those pictures and the idea of it going

down to the bottom of martini glass really gives you a visual. You are there in one of the nation's largest water reservoirs, amid this -- really,

this epic drought.

Can you breakdown for us the impact that these new mandatory federal cuts are going to have on everyday people in Nevada and other western states?

WEIR (on camera): Yes. In the near term, Sara, it won't be as noticeable for the average person. You know, the hot tubs are still full in Malibu and

the golf course are still green there at Phoenix. The farmers are really feeling it the most right now.

You can see, this is Lake Mead. About 75 percent of it is gone from 20 years ago. They used to put the boats way up on that hillside. It's down.

They just found their fifth set of human remains this week, that continue to be discovered as this this goes away.

But what you have here is tension that goes back 100 years between the states, the upper basin states with the mountains and the snow packs, and

the lower basin states like Nevada, Arizona, that all the storage with the reservoirs. And it's been a tug of war and it hasn't been pretty, but it is

managed to build huge cities in the desert. But this is not sustainable.

As you said at the lead in, this is a global problem. Rhine is drying up. The Yangtze in China is drying up as well. And so, the reality is millions

of people have learn to live with a lot less water. They've done that in Nevada in the last 20 years. They went from 300 gallons a day per capita,

now they are at 1:10. They'd like to get it down to 75 or so.

But in the meantime, there's $4 billion dollars in the new bill that President Biden just signed that goes to this problem specifically, thanks

to western senators like Kyrsten Sinema in Arizona. And a lot of that money is just going to go to pay ranchers and farmers not to ranch or farm. That

is the fastest way to fill this up. California takes the biggest piece of this.

But just for perspective, the federal government asked these seven states to come up with a fair, mutually agree upon way to cut four-million-acre

feet. That is what California gets in a year. That is a lot out lot a lot of water. And they haven't come close to that. And so, now, you got western

modern water managers frustrated because they thought the feds were going to be the bad cop, heavy, you know, stern parent and tell them what to do,

but in these politically charged stretched times, do you want to be the one, Sara, to tell a rancher you're going to -- you know, the federal

government is cutting off his water and deal with the political fallout or something like that?

It's happening at the state level as well with elections coming up there. So, there are no easy answers and -- but there's so many flashing red

lights of warnings of what's coming ahead.

SIDNER: And one of the biggest one is just that the image behind you of -- we can all see it. It's not like you to imagine, oh, the water used to be

here. It is so stark and disturbing.

Bill Weir, amazing reporting. A beautifully done story, but really a critical danger right now. Thank you.

When we come, back one young aviator closing in on a world record. We joined him in Canada.



SIDNER: And finally, young pilot attempting a world record. Mack Rutherford is only 17 years old and is aiming to become the youngest person

to fly solo around the world. His adventure took off in March and is now on the final stretch into Belgium. A family of aviators. His sister became the

youngest female to fly solo around the world in January.

And Mark joins us now from Canada, where he has just landed. Hi.


SIDNER: Can you tell us --

RUTHERFORD: My name is Mack Rutherford.

SIDNER: Hey, Mack.


SIDNER: Can you tell me what this has been like? Are you exhausted? How does this even work to fly around the world like this?

RUTHERFORD: Sorry. Yes. It has been absolutely incredible. There have been very difficult patches, so throughout the world. But I am on the final

stretch. I still have the Atlantic to go. But as long as I fish board (ph), I'm sure I'll be able to make it.

SIDNER: You said there were some difficult patches. What was that like? What happened?

RUTHERFORD: So, one of the definitely (INAUDIBLE) parts was when I was flying through Egypt to Sudan. And I had this extra fuel tank or the

attachment pack, and it's connected to a pump. And I was flying over the Sahara Desert, and it just would not work.

And it -- so, I was flying at -- because Egypt only allows you to fly at 8,500 feet, which is very high for my type of airplane. It actually

wouldn't work because of the altitude, but I did not know at that point. So, we're starting to look for roads around the place where we might have

to do an emergency landing. Then, I cross the Sudan border and I was able to descended and then, it started working again. And I (INAUDIBLE) that I

realize that, because of the altitude, it wasn't working.

SIDNER: So, you began your journey back in March in Sofia, Bulgaria. What is it that made you decide to do this? Because I know you come from a

family of aviators and your sister inspired you, I think you said, to make this attempt. What inspired you? Was it a little sibling rivalry or was it,

you know what, I'm going to try something incredible?

RUTHERFORD: Well, so, I've always been into aviation. It's been part of my life -- my -- well, my entire life. And so, when I was a 15, I got my

license and was the youngest pilot, rather at that point. And then, when my sister flew around the world, I thought, wow, that is something I can

actually try to strive for and achieve.

And so, I also decided to work for it. And so, she really was an inspiration to me. And I am really happy I was able to get into this

journey and fly around the world.

SIDNER: You have passed through five continents, 52 countries, and landed on some of the most remote landing strips. Can you give me an example of

one of those strips, what that was like and what it looked like for you from the air to the ground?

RUTHERFORD: So, my flight from Japan to Adak, which was my longest flight, it was from Japan to the U.S. I was -- it was supposed to be about 11

hours, but the headwinds were too strong. So, I had to divert in an airport in a small airport called Attu Island. And it's completely abandoned, not a

single person on the island in the North Pacific.

And so, I had -- they had no idea what to do. But I had a few Oreos that night for supper and then, went to bed in a small shed. But that was

definitely an amazing experience.

SIDNER: Sleeping in a shed. Not the most comfortable thing after 11 hours of flying.


SIDNER: I must ask, how do you keep yourself motivated? I mean, for many of us, 11 hours for just sitting as passengers in a plane is a little


RUTHERFORD: Well, so, the thing is when you are flying, you are always concentrating on something. So, when I am in-flight, I'm always check if

the engine is doing all right, if there is enough fuel and always looking around. And I don't think many people realize this, I'm not actually flying

that high. So, I always have something I can look at, there's -- whether it's beautiful mountains or wonderful fields. So, there is always something

to look at. And that is what makes this journey a nice thing to go through and have an amazing experience.

SIDNER: Mack, we are seeing video taken from your flight as you circle around, that is obviously, New York and the Statue of Liberty. What's

beautiful views. Is there any particular place where you just were knocked off your socks by how beautiful it was from your vantage point?


RUTHERFORD: There were actually many places. So, the Sahara Desert was incredible. Kenya was incredible. I was able to fly over the national parks

and see all the animals. Then there was Myanmar, when I flew over Burma, that was incredible jungles on mountains. And then, actually flying, yes,

in New York was also amazing. But even the flight today over Northern Canada was just amazing, just wilderness everywhere with nothing man-made

for miles in sight.

SIDNER: I'm going to be a bit of a nosy aunty here and ask what are you planning on doing as a profession? Have you thought through that?

RUTHERFORD: So, I am definitely going to carry on flying. I am not entirely sure in what place in aviation, just that I'm going to keep

flying. I'm thinking of something like the air force, but I'm nowhere 100 percent sure on anything. After I finish this, I am just going to focus on

school and try and catch up as much as I can.

SIDNER: Mack Rutherford, it is been a joy to talk to you and congratulations.

RUTHERFORD: Thank you very much.

SIDNER: That is it for now. Thank you so much for watching and good-bye from New York.