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Amanpour
Interview with Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Elbridge Colby; Interview with Council on Foreign Relations President Emeritus and Former U.S. State Department Official Richard Haass; Interview with Status Founder Oliver Darcy; John Thune New Senate GOP Leader; White House Holds Briefing After Biden-Trump Meeting. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired November 13, 2024 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Congratulations.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Thank you.
BIDEN: And looking forward to having a, like we said, smooth transition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Keeping with tradition, Biden welcomes Trump to the White House amidst some unorthodox new cabinet picks. I speak to former Pentagon
official and Trump backer, Elbridge Colby.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I just want to thank everybody. You've been incredible. We worked with a lot of you to get you in. And you helped me, and you helped me too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- with Republicans controlling the White House and much of Congress, what would it mean for the world? Veteran American diplomat
Richard Haass joins me.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER DARCY, FOUNDER, STATUS: A lot of the things that people are hearing are either not true, or they're heavily distorted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- when tech, media, money, and politics collide. Analyst Oliver Darcy tells Michel Martin our information environment is dangerously
polluted.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
An image for the history books. Donald Trump back at the White House meeting with President Biden for a handover that Trump denied him just four
years ago. The president-elect also is on Capitol Hill this day to huddle with Republican allies who all but control Congress now, four years after
the January 6th insurrection by Trump allies.
Trump is also filling out his national security team, including the shock pick for defense secretary, a Fox News Weekend host and Army National Guard
veteran, Peter Hegseth. One defense industry lobbyist reacted to Politico by saying, who the F is this guy? Arch Trump loyalist and former
congressman John Ratcliffe, who helped pursue investigations into Hunter Biden, will be nominated for CIA director.
Elbridge Colby served in the Pentagon during Trump's first term and has praised his cabinet selections. Elbridge Colby, welcome back to the program
and welcome from Washington.
Look, can we first ask you, I mean, I know you're not going to go off on Trump's picks, but who the heck is this Hegseth guy, as the defense
industry is asking? What qualifies him for this role?
ELBRIDGE COLBY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, great to be with you, Christiane. Three points. First of all, an anonymous
defense industry lobbyist making comments in Politico is probably praise for Speaker Nominee Hegseth. So, a lot of the people who are attacking them
include, for instance, Vice President Cheney's key adviser, that was in the same article. Vice President Cheney and Liz Cheney endorsed Vice President
Harris in the election, and President Trump has received a decisive electoral mandate.
Second of all, Pete Hegseth is a decorated combat veteran. He's been a leading voice for veterans. He's written books, he went to Princeton, he
went to Harvard. He's a major figure in the United States. And as President Trump has pointed out, he's very aligned with the America First foreign
policy that President Trump has decisively been elected on, to his credit.
And the other thing I would just stress here, Christiane, is this is not like 2017, late 2016, when President Trump was, you know, a change agent,
but was very new to Washington. He's very much a change agent. He's received a decisive electoral mandate. And now, he's picking people who he
knows and he thinks are going to implement his vision.
And I think that's the key thing to bear in mind here, is that President Trump's vision of America first is -- has received that mandate and is
best, I believe, for Americans, but also for our allies around the world and for the cause of peace, frankly.
AMANPOUR: Can I just get to that in a moment? But I do want to ask about the person of John Hegseth, because, you know, he has said that women have
no place in combat roles. Pete -- I'm sorry, he's been among Trump's, as we know, high-profile supporters. In terms of rolling back initiatives
designed to promote diversity, he has said, any general, any admiral, whatever, who was involved in DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion
programs, or woke expletive, has got to go, he said.
And yet, the Pentagon is one of the most incredibly successful institutions in America that works brilliantly on its inclusion and diversity policies.
Is this really going to be ripped apart?
COLBY: Well, the Pentagon was immensely successful as one of the first places to integrate in the American system. General Colin Powell became
chairman of the joint chiefs of staff under the first President Bush because it was a merit-based organization. And by the way, that's when our
Pentagon was actually winning wars.
[13:05:00]
I thoroughly support, and I think the American people have sent their support, for rolling back politically correct, kind of woke, DEI focused,
as opposed to a focus on merit. Whatever your race or creed, that's the American way, and that's what people are going back to. In fact, you have a
lot of Democrats across the way saying -- I think, believe even Rahm Emanuel, who I had -- was on the show -- your show with a couple months
ago, he said that the Democrats have been too focused on a lot of this DEI woke stuff.
So, you know, we want our military to be lethal and effective and merit- based. That's the best of the American way. And that's what Pete Hegseth is calling for. More importantly, that's what Donald Trump has called for. And
he's been elected on.
AMANPOUR: OK. So, I understand everybody wants merit, but that's not to say that the people who are in the Pentagon now are there because of some
woke expletive. And so, I want to ask you, Pete Hegseth, I think has also suggested, and they'll tell me in my ear, if I'm wrong, that the current
chairman of the joint chiefs, the highly distinguished Air Force General, C.Q. Brown, is at risk and possibly shouldn't be where he is. Do you think
that's going to happen?
COLBY: Well, I mean, look, I can't speak for --
AMANPOUR: Should it? I mean, he's a really decorated combat veteran.
COLBY: Yes. I mean, I don't want to comment on specific cases. What I'm going to say is that our Pentagon, and a lot of our generals, including
retired general and flag officers, have gotten themselves way into inappropriate politics over the last few years.
After a 25-year span in which our foreign policy and defense establishment has failed utterly to the American people. What I think President Trump is
doing is not ejecting the post-war approach to American foreign policy, he's rejecting the post-Cold War hubris of the last kind of 30 years. And a
lot of that goes to the civilian leadership, but our generals have not done a great job, and a lot of them are out calling him, you know, fascist or
it's the end of democracy or whatever.
We need to get our general and flag officers back the focus on winning, winning wars or -- and wherever possible, avoiding wars by understanding
what it is that we can and can't do and the American people will support.
So, I think -- you know, here's something, and I know this from personal experience. Our military establishment and its associated sort of apparatus
has gotten really big. And every once in a while, you know, as I always like to point out, the founding fathers thought a standing army was the bug
and the tough politics was a feature. We have a standing army for a good reason.
You mentioned John Radcliffe, a great pick to lead the CIA. Bring some accountability back. Every once in a while, there needs to be a democratic
focus on accountability and getting back to the basics. And I think our -- you know, many in our military establishment -- not all, they're great
people in the military. Pete Hegseth is an example of a guy who's a combat decorated veteran. There's a lot of people, including at the upper ranks
who are ready to do this kind of thing.
In my view, and I think this is what president -- you know, it doesn't matter what I think, it's what President Trump has said, those are the
people who should be elevated.
AMANPOUR: Look, you talked about some generals who had said things about Trump. Of course, those weren't DEI, they were white generals, and they
were actually former generals. They're no longer serving. So, that's one thing. The other thing is, you know, definitely President Trump said, and I
think people are seeing that the slogan personnel is policy, but also that it is the mandate he claims is to turn America into his image and into his
agenda, you know, pursuing his agenda.
So, are you comfortable with -- I want to say blind loyalty, being the calling card or the litmus test for some of the appointees? And I'm going
to stay on Hegseth. Because, again, the leader of one veterans group said he's actually the least qualified nominee for secretary of defense in
American history and the most overtly political. And again, I'm asking you this because the Pentagon, of all places, should be apolitical.
COLBY: Well, let's get a few things straight. First of all, I didn't suggest that the critics of President Trump were all DEI picks, part of it,
and I don't even know what that means. I'm just -- we're talking about a policy. We're not talking about individuals.
Retired general officers actually remain under certain restrictions, and they have a special trust invested in them by the American people, as do
senior intelligence officers. Because of the supposedly apolitical nature, but extraordinarily powerful, you know, aspects of their role, they have a
special trust that they need not abuse. And I believe that has been abused by a number of senior retired officers. Happy to get into that.
What I would say on this thing, I think it's a red herring, Christiane. All presidential administrations expect loyalty. That is important. In fact,
that's a very important part. General officers don't go through political vetting. Political appointees, you can be sure in the Biden administration,
in the Clinton administration, in the George W. Bush administration, there is expectations of loyalty for civilian appointees. Why? It's not some
fetish, it's to make sure that you address the principal agent problem and you actually get Democratic accountability.
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My view, honestly -- and I mean this totally sincerely, I want -- I very much hope, whatever happens to me, I very much hope President Trump
appoints people who will implement his agenda. I don't think it's correct to say he's trying to make America into his image. He's laid out a policy
vision for putting Americans first, restoring American energy, you know, deregulation, the Department of Government Efficiency, all these kinds of
things, a common-sense approach to governance, and he's picking people who he believes will implement it.
Some of them are, you know, have different backgrounds, and so forth, but this blind loyalty thing is, I mean, of course they're expected to be
loyal, right?
AMANPOUR: But even his own team said that from the beginning. So, OK, you say it's a red herring, but loyalty was published and publicized as a very,
very major issue. But anyway, I'm going to ask you about that a little bit later.
First. on the big issues. Let's just take some of them. And obviously, Ukraine. I'm sitting in Europe. Russia, Ukraine, what will happen? Where do
you believe -- and especially looking at, again, the appointees, many of whom have turned into Ukraine aid skeptics and some of whom, including
President Trump, has said that he wants a negotiation and he can fix it in sort of a 24-hour period.
What should the United States, for its own security and -- you know, and its defense of its ideals, be doing next to end this war.
COLBY: Well, look, I think President Trump has stated clearly that the war should end, and I certainly support that. I think everybody would hope for
the war to end, and I think that's pretty much, you know, moving into consensus wisdom. I believe Chancellor Scholz has said similar things.
AMANPOUR: Yes, but how? It's the how.
COLBY: Right, the how. President Trump has not specified how he's going to do that. That's a good, smart negotiating position. Eisenhower didn't do
that in '52. Nixon didn't do that in '68. Reagan didn't do that in '80. I very much hope he's successful.
You've seen signals from both Moscow and Kyiv that they're open to a form of negotiations. What exactly that looks like, I don't pretend to know.
There was reporting today, again, I can't confirm it, but that there might be an appointment of a Ukraine peace special envoy. We'll see how that
goes, but I think that's a clear policy plank.
Here's the thing, Christiane, you're in Europe. The message has been clear. I've been saying this for a number of years, I said it earlier on your
show, the Europeans need to step up. Because here are a few things. First of all, they need to take more reliance for their own security. That's not
just a matter of fairness, that's a structural military fiscal reality given the threats the United States faces and the constraints on our
military forces.
Europeans know that. I talked to European officials all the time. They're getting the message. I actually think this is an area where it's -- this is
good -- a Trump victory is really good news for Europe because it's finally going to push Europe to do what it needs.
Apparently, in Germany, polling I was seeing yesterday, half of your Germans or something like that agree with Boris Pistorius, the social
Democrat minister of defense who says Germany should be spending like 3.5 percent.
AMANPOUR: Yes. I think that's an argument -- Yes. That's an argument that Trump --
COLBY: Well, let me finish here, Christiane, because that's going to --
AMANPOUR: -- perpetrated the last time and it's happening. It's happening.
COLBY: Well, it's too slow. It's not really happening.
AMANPOUR: OK. But in the meantime, it's happening. And you say it's too slow. Yes.
COLBY: Yes.
AMANPOUR: One can argue over that. But the question is, there's a real raging war. And it really matters how the president of the United States,
the most powerful person in the world, with the most powerful military and, you know, and economy, what message he sends as to how this war will end.
I spoke with the former French president --
COLBY: But he's sending the right message. He's sending the right message that the Europeans need to step up and do their part, which is the message
that President Biden should have been sending and would have been more in Europe and Ukraine's interests over the last two and a half, three years.
AMANPOUR: What is their part then?
COLBY: So, that is now starting -- that's the best thing.
AMANPOUR: What is it then? What is it? To keep sending weapons?
COLBY: Well, in any case, Ukraine is going to need to be backed and supported, right? And, you know, I always point this out to -- I was being,
talking with a bunch of German parliamentarians a few months ago, and they were saying, oh, why can't you do more? And I said, how about you start out
in a common-sense way by you spending 3.5 percent of GDP on defense, and maybe more than that because you've been spending so little for a long
time.
AMANPOUR: But even America doesn't spend 3.5, Elbridge.
COLBY: Well, no we're roughly there.
AMANPOUR: It's nearly -- it's around 3.
COLBY: And we have been for a long time.
AMANPOUR: It's around 3.
COLBY: No, it's -- depending if you count the (INAUDIBLE).
AMANPOUR: In any event.
COLBY: Whatever, Christiane, if they spend as much as we do, that would be a great start. And they're very rich countries, you know, the country of
Denmark, Norway, Sweden. They're very vocal, that have been spending quite a little. So, there's -- it's an obvious solution. And actually, this is
where President Trump is really helping the Europeans by injecting the necessary.
What's clear, you know, honestly, is that Europeans and the military who know what needs to be done, they're going to appreciate the message of
urgency and pressure that President Trump is sending.
AMANPOUR: OK. Let me ask you about China. I spoke to Rush Doshi, you know, he's a senior China and Taiwan hand. He was the national security council
under the Biden administration. Here's what he told me about what Xi Jinping, the president of China, views the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSH DOSHI, DIRECTOR, CHINA STRATEGY INITIATIVE, COUNCIL OF FOREIGN RELATIONS: This is the decisive decade in the competition with China,
that, in many ways, if the United States doesn't take sort of urgent action, then it could fall behind China technologically, it could become
dependent on China economically, it might even be defeated by China militarily in the Taiwan Strait or in the South China Sea. So, this decade
really counts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[13:15:00]
AMANPOUR: OK. So, what I -- that's what he's -- that's the analysis. What Xi Jinping has said is that he believes by 2030, China will overtake the
United States as the superpower. And he believes the United States is in decline. So, what is the best way to counter that seeking for dominance?
You know, the Biden administration and before that, the Obama administration was about alliances and they've built a lot of alliances, it
was about -- like the Chips Act. It was about all these things to try to manage properly and securely a competition. What do you think will change?
COLBY: Well, I mean, I can't speak for the president, but I'll just say Rush Doshi is a very smart guy, but I think that's a pretty blistering
indictment of the Biden administration's policy because if this is the decisive decade and there's a potential that we lose a war is centered on
the first island chain and the Western Pacific, then why has the Biden administration have been squandering our military power in Europe and in
the Middle East, on lesser threats, and not increasing defense spending or injecting the kind of urgency into our defense industrial base
revitalization that they put into green initiatives?
So, my view is that, at least, is we want peace through strength vis-a-vis China. This is where President Trump's message of strength and Vice
President-Elect Vance has been very articulate where we need to husband our constrained military power to deter a Chinese attack while also keeping
open options for negotiation with Xi Jinping. And I think this is where President Trump's got a lot of flack, ironically, from the left, for his
willingness to talk to Xi Jinping and others like Putin and Kim Jong Un. But actually, that's good, where there's an opening to China.
And I'll say we're already seeing positive progress. The Financial Times has reported that Taiwan, President Trump has said, why aren't they
spending more? Totally common sense and correct to their benefit. The Financial Times is reporting that Taiwan is now looking to do a major
increase in defense spending. That's great. That's it. But that's a huge indictment of the last few years.
So, here's a key thing, Christiane, I want to really want to stress, the Biden-Harris administration has left the world in a terrible place, left
the American military and our political position out of posture, out of position, and we're going to have to cut some slack to President Trump's
administration to put us into a good way.
Bear in mind, secretary of the Air Force, Frank Kendall, a Biden administration appointee, he's not only reconfirmed Blinken and Byrne's
statement that China is preparing for a war over Taiwan by 2027, but he said the Chinese military will say it's ready by 2027. That's in this
presidential term. So, you know, my view is if we want to achieve peace through strength, President Trump's vision, we're going to have to focus on
that a lot.
AMANPOUR: And President Trump has also been, you know, sort of said that, you know, Taiwan has to pay more if it wants -- you know, the typical
transactional thing, what you've just said. Does that cast doubt to the Chinese on the so-called strategic ambiguity about what, you know, the U.S.
would be prepared to do to defend a democratic ally?
COLBY: Well, strategic ambiguity, Christiane, is our traditional policy. So, it's President Biden who departed from our traditional policy of
strategic ambiguity on that issue and then had it walked back by staff. So, I think President Trump's position is consistent with our traditional
policy, which I think is the advisable course in terms of what you'd call declaratory policy at this point.
But, you know, Taiwan has really got to understand, this is a point that I've been making that I believe is consistent with what President Trump's
been arguing, is that they need to build up their defense, not only as a matter of fairness because, you know, the Chinese military is very
formidable. We've just seen you know, reporting of a new stealth jet fighter, for instance. They've got to do their part.
And I mean, what's almost mind-boggling is that the Taiwanese have been spending less as a fraction of their GDP on defense than the American
people have, and that is a dangerous place to be. So, again, if people are getting the memo, hey, I need to do my part and I'm not just going to take
these blase assurances from the Biden team as, you know, take him to the bank, I think that's, again, better for not only the American people, but
for our allies, better for Taiwan.
AMANPOUR: Oh, and one more question -- well, another question on another region, which is raging right now, obviously Israel, Gaza. So, as you know,
President Trump elect has nominated Mike Huckabee, the former governor as ambassador to Israel. And Mike Huckabee has said a number of things over
the years, because obviously he's a very strong supporter, but he's also, you know, got a whole religious, you know, evangelical period -- feel about
it.
He's talked about, you know, he has a pretty maximalist view. He said, there's no such thing as occupation. There's no such thing as settlements,
their communities. There's no such thing as a Palestinian. There's no such thing as the West Bank. And he said, yes, if -- there might be a case for
annexation.
Can you tell me what you expect to be the result of the next four years of a Trump administration on Israel and the West Bank and Gaza and that
situation?
COLBY: Well, I can't because I can't speak for the administration, the transition.
AMANPOUR: But does that -- do those kinds of words worry you? Because it's definitely against U.S. policy.
[13:20:00]
COLBY: Well, I, -- you know, I, a couple things. First of all, President Trump is going to speak for his administration on this very important set
of issues. I think a few things you can see very clearly, we're going to be strongly supporting Israel, which I personally very much support. I think
we're going to look to allies like Israel that are willing and able to take their defense more into their own hands, you're going to see, actually -- I
mean, kind of contrary to what you're saying, Christiane, I think, you know, and initiatives like the Abraham Accords, you're going to see,
hopefully, a pragmatic approach towards building relationships across the region, in a sense, something that the Biden administration tried and it
was not very successful in advancing, but you can see that kind of building on the Abraham Accords model.
And frankly, you've already seen some, you know, responses from the Qataris vis-a-vis Hamas, even from the Iranians. The New York Times is reporting
that they're softening their position. So, I think you see progress.
You know, look, I think my sense is we need to be realistic, the Middle East is not going to turn into, you know, Shangri La from one day to the
next, and that's not a realistic expectation, but I think we're going to have a better outcome. And if you look at the results of President Trump's
first term versus the Biden term, I think the results really just speak for themselves.
AMANPOUR: Elbridge Colby, thank you very much. We're going to wait to see whether you get picked back for another term in administration. And if so,
we want you back on our program. Thank you very much.
Now, for more on this, let's turn to Richard Haass, who is a principal adviser to the secretary of state under president George W. Bush and is
president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations. And he's joining me from New York.
Richard Haass, welcome back to the program. I just wonder whether there was anything you heard from Mr. Colby as to the, you know, future nature of a
Trump administration in various foreign policy aspects that you wanted to comment on.
RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT EMERITUS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS AND FORMER U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: No, I think he's understandably improperly
being quite careful not to get out in front of the president-elect or, you know, the next administration. So again, I think what a President Trump
would do, whether it's vis-a-vis China, Ukraine, the Middle East remains to be seen, and you couldn't glean a whole lot from what Elbridge Colby had to
say.
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you for your opinion then on Pete Hegseth as the next defense secretary? Do you agree with the people who've said he's got --
he's the least qualified in American history?
HAASS: I've never met the gentleman. What worries me, Christiane, is he has no experience running an organization. He served -- which is, you know,
obviously a very good and honorable thing, but he hasn't worked in the Washington decision making world.
Pentagon is an enormous management challenge, both the building, the interagency process, as well as the American troops scattered around the
world. So, I worry about that, the lack of that background. I also worry about the politicization of the military. You know, this talk about
creating some kind of a special group, a warrior group to vet existing admirals and generals, I worry about that. This talk about potentially
using the U.S. military, a lot of people are concerned about this, under the Insurrection Act to deal with disturbances that, for example, could
stem from an effort to deport many individuals.
So, I'm worried that we're we potentially are having someone as secretary of defense who simply comes to things quite politically and doesn't have
the management background. That said, if he gets confirmed, we'll just have to see. And we'll see how well or -- he does, and we'll take it from there.
AMANPOUR: I had wanted to put this statement from the former chairman of the joint chiefs, General Mark Milley, to Elbridge Colby, but I didn't get
the time. So, I'm going to play it and ask you. This is about the loyalty test. And to be frank, what people were concerned about in 2016 would, you
know, any military be prevailed upon to potentially commit an illegal act, you know, if they were ordered to do so. This is what Mark Milley has said
in general about the Trump administration -- or about, you know, a military's duty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. MARK MILLEY, FORMER CHAIR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We don't take an oath to a king, or a queen, or to a tyrant, or a dictator, and we don't
take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don't take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the constitution, and we take an oath to the idea that
it's America, and we're willing to die to protect it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I mean, you know, as I said at the beginning, people were concerned about those kinds of orders. This was Milley's farewell speech.
Do you think the -- are there guardrails this time that you can see that would really make sure that, you know, everything was safe and on the right
track?
HAASS: Let me say two things. One, you know, the U.S. military, I think, is the most professional, extraordinary institution in American society. It
really offers a success story, a real model. So, I would hate to see anything done with it or put it in situations that would essentially, what,
undermine its internal cohesion.
[13:25:00]
And putting it in situations, even if they're technically lawful that are inappropriate would worry me. And again, there's all sorts of tradition and
law and norms against using the U.S. military on American soil, in American territory. So, I would hope things would not come to that. And again, I
would hope that the U.S. military would remain, in some ways, our greatest meritocracy, where people, men and women, only get promoted because they
deserve to. And I would not want there to be a kind of political vetting of promotions. I think that would be really poisonous for the military. So,
again, I hope it doesn't come to that.
You've asked whether there'll be guardrails. I think that's the basic question of a Trump administration. We've got a rare moment in American
history here. Suddenly, we don't really have checks and balances. What we have is the American equivalent of a parliamentary system. Think about it.
The White House, the Senate, most likely the House, are all in Republican hands. The Supreme Court leans that way.
So, the question is, where does the pushback come from? How do we make sure that there are guardrails? It'll take individuals of conscience. The media
has a role to play. American society, writ large, has a role to play. But we've got to hope that there are people around the 47th president who don't
understand loyalty in personal terms, but understand loyalty and constitutional terms.
AMANPOUR: So, let me ask you about pushback. I mean, he's already said, even on his victory night speech, he already called the press, you know,
part of the enemy camp and singled out certain members of the main -- certain institutions in the mainstream press. But nonetheless, he's also
talked about sending the military, you just said, it shouldn't be used on American soil to do deportations to, quote/unquote, "go after the enemy
within."
But what do you make of Senator Rubio and Congressman Waltz who have been named as secretary of state and national security adviser? What did their
politics and their record on issues, I don't know, like Ukraine or China or whatever, what does that say to you? Is it highly aligned with President
Trump? Is it more independent? Is it more, what, bipartisan? I don't know.
HAASS: I took their appointments as a pretty good sign. To begin with, they're both internationalists. Neither one is an isolationist. So, I
thought that was welcome. They both also have backgrounds and bases. They're not creatures of Donald Trump. Marco Rubio has several terms in the
Senate. Mike Waltz in the House, in addition to his military background. Plus, he served in the executive branch in the Pentagon. So, I like the
fact that they come with some independence, some a base, if you will, of their own.
Yes, they're both very tough on China. The real question is how that gets translated into policy. Is it simply an economic based relationship with
China? Do we threaten tariffs and sanctions, or are we prepared to use military force if need be? A big question mark. I think an even bigger
question mark is what they're prepared to do vis-a-vis Ukraine. Both, as I understand it, voted against the most recent tranche of military aid for
Ukraine.
But the real question is, if you want to get from where we are now to a negotiation, cutting off aid to Ukraine is not the way to do it. Russia has
to understand that it faces a capable Ukraine. That's the only way to get Putin to consider compromising. And we have to give Mr. Zelenskyy the
confidence that if he does make some compromises, Ukraine will remain an independent functioning country. So, I think there's a big question mark
over where we're going to come out in Ukraine, the Middle East.
You mentioned Mike Huckabee before and others. What concerns me there is that we're -- we've got people getting involved in the Middle East who seem
to think that U.S. policy is simply to give Israel a green light. And I don't think that's in Israel's self-interest, I don't think that's in
America's self-interest at times. So, I hope our policy becomes more -- you know, potentially more critical or at least more realistic there.
AMANPOUR: Can I then play just a quick soundbite from Mike Huckabee? He spoke to Israel Radio today. And he basically said annexation is on the
table again. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE (R-AR): I think Israel has title deed to Judea and Samaria. There are certain words I refuse to use. There is no such thing as
a West Bank. It's Judea and Samaria. There's no such thing as a settlement, they're communities, they're neighborhoods, they're cities. There's no such
thing as an occupation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, that is him in 2017 talking about those issues. Today, he told Israel Radio that annexation was back on the table. Break that down
and what it means.
HAASS: Annexation, I think, would be a disaster, not just for Palestinians, who would lose any chance of having a country of their own,
but it would be a disaster for Israel. If you're truly supportive of Israel, you should want Israel to be a secure, prosperous, Jewish and
democratic country with robust ties to the west. Annexation puts all of that at risk.
[13:30:00]
So, I really don't see that in any way as an Israel center self-interest or in the interest of a close U.S.-Israeli relationship. I would hope
Ambassador to be Huckabee, as he gets more involved with the issues, would come to rethink some of those positions that would also make it impossible
for Israel to forge lasting relationships in the Arab world again.
On my short list of counterproductive things, Christiane, annexation of the land -- well, what is the West Bank, annexation of any of that land, absent
the much larger peace agreement, where there's compensation in terms of territory and the like but just simply isolated annexation would be
dramatically against the self-interest of both this country and Israel.
AMANPOUR: And let's move to Gaza where there's a big report in Haaretz that suggests the Israeli forces are going to be there at least through
2025 and maybe longer. And the whole business of kind of building an infrastructure in Northern Gaza has been seen and investigated. Roads and
places where they'll build military infrastructure there.
And Donald Trump has told Benjamin Netanyahu to, quote, "Do what you have to do to," quote, "finish the job" in Israel, in Lebanon, or whatever.
Well, how do you read that? It's clear that he wants this over by the time he's inaugurated.
HAASS: Well, I fear it won't be over, but it should be over. Right now, there's extraordinary opportunity in the Middle East, in Gaza, if Israel
would simply, among other things, you know, agree to a ceasefire, not only would it have a chance of getting the hostages back, but, you know, if it
coupled that with some sort of a commitment to a Palestinian political entity or state, what have you, I think then you could bring an Arab
stabilization force into Gaza, you could create order there. Hamas would not be able to reemerge. You wouldn't need an Israeli occupation.
This seems to me to be so much in Israel's interest. And the opportunities there, the Arab states are willing to do it and then you could rebuild. So,
it would be a political, a strategic, an economic, and a humanitarian gain.
In Lebanon, Israel has delivered a decisive blow against Hezbollah. So, I would say, let's build on that. Let's get a ceasefire. Let's get those
60,000 or 70,000 Israelis back in their homes in Northern Israel and let's create the basis for a long-term ceasefire. And maybe, just maybe, the
beginning of the rebuilding of a modern state of Lebanon. Let's stop the settlement activity, which I think precludes or closes off potential for
diplomacy in this part of the world. Hopefully, the Iranians won't take another step against Israel, and then we can maybe calm the Israeli-Iranian
relationship for a time.
So, I actually think Mr. Trump comes to office, potentially, with extraordinary opportunity. But that opportunity will only be harvested not
if the Americans give the Israelis a free hand to do anything and everything, but if we press Israel to basically, let's bring about a
ceasefire in Gaza, let's bring about a ceasefire in the north, and let's begin a political process.
We're not talking about a Palestinian State tomorrow or next week or next year, but let's at least begin a political process that, among other
things, would allow an Arab stabilization force to enter Gaza.
AMANPOUR: I mean, I wonder if you can see that even remotely possible, you know, given who's in charge in Israel and the ideological backers of
Netanyahu who really don't want any of that and have already said that Trump's election should be, you know, our green light to go and finish the
sort of the settlement project and all of the rest of it. I mean, they're very keen on that. They think they have a strong ally based on what he did
for them last time.
But I want to ask you why you think Israel doesn't capitalize on what you've just said, that it has dealt real devastating blows to Hezbollah and
Hamas and seems to be playing a terribly deadly game of whack-a-mole in northern Gaza, just back and forth, back and forth. And, you know, pockets
of Hamas being attacked by the air. And again, tens and hundreds of civilians, children being killed on a daily. Why doesn't Israel see that
it's winning and stop now?
HAASS: Look, Israel is winning militarily, but it's not winning politically because it hasn't introduced the political component into its
policy. We're up against diminishing returns in Gaza as you're bombing rubble or in some cases, as you say, whack-a-mole, Hamas is reemerging in
certain areas.
Look, then you're into assessing or analyzing the motivations of Israel's prime minister and some of those around them. Some of those around them
clearly do want to annex land. They want to annex next parts of the West Bank. They want to stop forever the emergence of a Palestinian State. They
want to resettle parts of Gaza.
[13:35:00]
The prime minister, I believe, clearly prefers remaining a war prime minister, which among other things, puts off any investigations into why
October 7th was allowed to happen. He doesn't want to split his coalition. So, people have all sorts of motives who are continuing these conflicts.
But again, it's up to President Trump to press, if he wants to, something different.
I'll tell you, I had breakfast as recently as yesterday with an Israeli, and he said there's some people in the Israeli government who aren't easy
with President-Elect Trump simply because he's so unpredictable. And, you know, the Biden administration, we knew what its preferences were, but it
really didn't put much behind them. So, it constantly criticized, you know, the Israeli government as virtually nothing to show for it, to be perfectly
blunt.
I think a President Trump at least has the potential, if he wants, to get on the phone to Bibi Netanyahu and basically say, Bibi, this is what you've
got to do. You're going to have to work with me for the next four years. This is what I want and need from you.
AMANPOUR: And we're going to see if past is prologue, et cetera, we'll just see. Thank you so much, Richard Haass.
Now, remember Trump also saying, I am your retribution, well, he's also identified certain media as the enemy and threatened to throw reporters in
jail for coverage he doesn't like. Trump is also the first convicted felon to win the presidency and enter the White House. How did that happen? Well,
former CNN media reporter, who's now the founder of Status Media, Oliver Darcy says that the rise of nontraditional outlets is largely responsible,
reaching huge targeted audiences practically unchecked and with no guardrails on supporters talking points and outright lies on occasion.
Darcy joins Michel Martin to discuss the consequences.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Christiane. Oliver Darcy, thanks so much for talking with us.
OLIVER DARCY, FOUNDER, STATUS: It's a pleasure. I'm glad to be here.
MARTIN: So, in your sort of digital news site --
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: I have comments now from the newly selected Senate Majority Leader, South Dakota Senator John Thune. Have a listen.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), INCOMING U.S. SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER: We are on one team. We are excited to reclaim the majority and to get to work with
our colleagues in the House to enact President Trump's agenda. We have a mandate from the American people. A mandate not only to clean up the mess
left by the Biden-Harris-Schumer agenda, but also to deliver on President Trump's priorities.
We will make sure that the president and his team have the tools and support that they need to enforce border security laws and to remove the
violent criminals who are wreaking havoc in every one of our states. We will work to make America prosperous again by streamlining the bureaucratic
machine and overturning costly Biden-Harris regulations.
And we will work to restore American energy dominance. Not just our energy security, but energy dominance, which will lower costs and bolster our
national security. I'm excited to get to work with this team right away. And I want to thank my colleagues who placed their faith in me to serve as
leader. And to those who were supporting another candidate, I promise to be a leader who serves the entire Republican conference.
We'll have an ambitious agenda and we'll take each and every Republican working together to be successful. With that, I want to turn things over to
Senator John Barrasso, the newly elected Republican Whip.
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Thank you. On election night, America saw the remaking of the Republican Party for the better. This election was about
the answering to the question of, are you better off now than you were four years ago? And the American people said no. Only one in four Americans
thought that the country was heading in the right direction. And you've seen the Republican Party grow in terms of hardworking middle class
families, in terms of minorities, in terms of young people, in terms of families struggling to get by.
The last three weeks before the election I was all over the country with President Trump, with J. D. Vance, as well as a number of our senate
candidates. One of the stories that stuck with me was a woman in Michigan who talked about the fact that she was embarrassed to let her husband know
that she had to go to the local food bank in order to get by.
Republicans listened to those stories. Democrats were focused on President Trump. Republicans were focused on the needs of the American people. People
who wanted to get prices down, wanted to secure the border, wanted us to unleash American energy. People who wanted to make America look and be
strong once again around the world. That's what the Republicans listened to. That's what we're responding to. And we are now working together to
make sure we can put America back on track.
[13:40:00]
THUNE: The newly elected Republican conference chair is the Senator from Arkansas, Senator Tom Cotton.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Thank you, Senator Thune. I'm looking forward to working with Senator Thune and the rest of this leadership team. I'm very
grateful for the confidence that my peers placed in me.
We all remember what it was like when President Trump was in office and we had Republicans in charge of the Senate. We had low prices. We had high
wages. We had a secure border. We had a strong military. We had a peaceful, stable world. Starting on January 3rd, that's what we'll all be working to
build again with President Trump, with Mike Johnson and the rest of the House Republicans on behalf of the American people. Thank you all.
THUNE: The newly elected Republican Policy Chair and is the Senator from West Virginia, Senator Shelley Moore Capito.
SEN. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO (R-WV): Thank you. And congratulations to our new leader, John Thune. He will be as strong a voice as he has been in the
past as the whip, and I look forward to serving with him and with all of our leadership team. I want to thank the others that ran. We had a really
strong healthy discussion. And we've all come out united and friends.
And one of the people that was in our discussion is one of the people that is going to -- although, he didn't say anything, his presence was very much
felt and that is the vice president-elect, J. D. Vance. I think the fact that he not only was a voting member of our conference, but also in there
with us every step of the way to make sure that the direction that we're going to go as a united conference and with me leading the policy issues
and all of us working together that we're going to have a united voice.
And I'll say one thing about the election, I've said this on all my local stations, what I think the biggest issue was, and there are big ones,
border and national security and others, it is literally the American family, the mom and the dad, the grandmother, whoever it is, going to the
grocery store. We do it all the time every week. And we could see -- all of us could see the escalating costs of something so very basic to us, just
the cost of food, and hearing from the vice president in her campaign, the economy is doing great. Don't worry.
And so, we hear those voices. We hear them loud and clear. And those are the voices that we're going to respond to along with President Trump
through the next several years.
THUNE: Newly elected Senate Republican Conference vice chair, he's a senator from Oklahoma, Senator James Lankford.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Thank you. Congratulations to John Thune. We're looking forward is great leadership there. Republicans were asked a
very simple thing, can you get us back on track? Over 70 percent of the country right now believes the country is on the wrong track. Our task is
going to be very, very simple, to defend our values, to be able to strengthen us as a nation and to be able to bring prosperity to people that
are really struggling right now. That's a primary issue for us. And all of those things are things that we're going to get onto immediately because
the American people have spoken and said, we do not like the direction that the country is going. So, let's get us back on a better direction.
So, this leadership team, President Trump, J. D. Vance, we're headed in a direction to be able to get the country back on the track that she is
looking for.
THUNE: Thanks, James. And the newly elected chairman of the Senate, National Republican Senatorial Committee Chair, he's the Senator from South
Carolina, and he is already planning on expanding our majority in 2026. So, Senator Tim Scott.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Without any question, President Trump set out to make sure that Americans felt like this country and the American dream was
alive and well and there for them. From the border, to fixing the economy, solving the issue of crime and restoring confidence on the global stage
President Trump has been very clear on his agenda. Our goal with our leader, John Thune, is to make sure that we achieve those objectives.
My passion is making sure that we defend our current seats and expand the map and expand our majority so that President Trump does not have two years
with a Republican majority in the Senate and he has four years in control of making sure that America's agenda comes home to each and every
household.
THUNE: A couple quick questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any concerns about President Trump's cabinet fix so far, and what advice would you give him when it comes to
choosing nominees who will pass Senate confirmation?
[13:45:00]
THUNE: Well, as you know, the Senate has an advice and consent role under the constitution. So, we will do everything we can to process his noms
quickly. Get them installed in their position so they can begin to implement his agenda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leader Thune, you've said that recess appointments are on the table. That's a key demand from President-Elect Donald Trump.
Will you move forward with that?
THUNE: Well, what we're going to do is make sure that we are processing his nominees in a way that gets them into those positions so they can
implement his agenda. How that happens remains to be seen. You know, obviously we want to make sure our committees have confirmation hearings
like they typically do. And that these nominees reported out to the floor.
But I've said this, and I mean it, that, you know, we expect a level of cooperation from the Democrats to work with us to get these folks
installed. And obviously, we're going to look at -- explore all options to make sure that they get moved and that they get moved quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legislative filibuster remain unchanged under your tenure.
THUNE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you intend to balance maintaining the independence of the Senate with passing the president-elect's agenda?
THUNE: Well, I mean, the Senate, as you know, is a by the founder's design, a place where the minority has a voice in our process. And we will
do the job that the founders intended us to do, the United States Senate, and that the American people intend us to do. And that, right now, after
this mandate election, coming out of the American people, is to work with this president on an agenda that unwinds a lot of the damage of the Biden-
Harris-Schumer agenda and puts in place new policies that will move our country forward in a different direction.
SCIUTTO: We just saw the new Senate majority leader, Senator John Thune, there making his first comments following a vote this morning that put him
in that position. He also introduced other senior members of the Republican Senate leadership, including Senator John Barrasso, Shelley Moore Capito,
James Lankford, a couple newsier questions there as he took questions from the press. He did say he will not change the Senate filibuster under his
leadership, and he did say that he expects the Senate to process President Trump's nominees seems to be communicating that they will maintain Senate
confirmation hearings and Senate's constitutional role in confirming those picks.
We'll continue to follow the news here in Washington. Meanwhile, we join "Amanpour" in progress.
DARCY: But before they were happy to basically be at the buffet that was keeping them in business for so long. And, you know, I think when you look
at YouTubers or podcasters, they generally have to be a lot more scrappy. They fought for their audiences. They've really worked to build them. And,
you know, for so long, people would just turn on the TV and watch World News Tonight, right? They would turn on the TV and watch the TODAY Show.
There wasn't much work that was necessarily being done to earn that audience. Whereas, if you look at these podcasters like they are really
scrappy.
And so, I think that's one, one issue. But yes, like, I guess like it's not entirely their fault. People will go to outlets that are soft around them,
that have huge reach. But partially, like, if you think about it, like, outlets that -- you know, these legacy outlets, these really big outlets
probably could have done a lot more early on to adapt to the changing media environment. And now, really, at the last, you know, final minute before
the clock strikes midnight, they're desperately trying to get into these fields.
MARTIN: So, let's cast forward here. I mean, you know, President-Elect Trump has made no secret of the fact that he's no fan of the legacy media.
You know, on the one hand, he's always trashed the media, right? The fake news, you know, we've heard it all. And in fact, in this last campaign, his
most recent campaign said, you know, he wouldn't mind if the journalists got shot, which his campaign spokesman said was misinterpreted, but you
know, we all heard it and we can decide what we thought about that.
You know, on the other hand, he was very available to the mainstream. It was just facts. He was very available. He gave lots of interviews. He
talked to people, you know, at length from all these sorts of different outlets. So, I'm just curious if you see going forward, how do you think
this is going to go?
DARCY: Well, I think that Donald Trump's relationship with the media gets very hot and cold occasionally. I mean, the legacy press or the, you know,
credible press, he gets very hot and cold. Occasionally he'll do a lot of interviews with and then he'll just, you know, go back to Fox News universe
and just kind of stay there.
And so, at the latter part of the campaign, I think that's generally what he was doing, right? He, like, canceled 60 Minutes, he canceled the CNBC
interview, and he was doing these podcasts and hanging out on Fox News every single day. And I think -- so, I think that'll oscillate during his
presidency.
[13:50:00]
But how he treats the press is, I think, up in the air. You know, I talked to Stephanie Grisham earlier this summer, and she said that she had been
tasked with kicking the -- you know, a lot of the critical press off of White House grounds. And you saw them try doing that in the first
administration with Jim Acosta. And I'm not convinced he won't try that again. And I think he's going to have people who are willing to just kind
of throughout the norms and take a really hardline stance against the news media. So, we'll see.
And then, of course, like -- just like the idea that he could make life difficult for someone like Jeff Bezos if The Washington Post were to be
overly critical, I think that's a big worry as well because --
MARTIN: Like how? Like what could he do?
DARCY: Well, Blue Origin, his space company has billions of dollars in contracts before the U.S. government, you know, I think if they were maybe
awarded to someone like Elon Musk, who now is best friends with Donald Trump, that would be a problem for Jeff Bezos, right? Like, that's not
something that's great. Amazon Web Services also has a lot of government business.
You know, and so, if he were to maybe take that away or start awarding these big contracts to competitors, I think that presents a problem for
someone like Bezos. You know, he -- his companies are very heavily intertwined with government, just as Elon Musk's are, right? That's why
Elon Musk is probably a very happy man today. You know, he's worth more --
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: -- trip to the Amazon and then, to the G20 Summit in Rio de Janeiro. At APEC, the president will
reinforce America's leading role in the Indo-Pacific. And over the last four years, he has markedly enhanced our strategic position in this vital
region, from our treaty alliances, to AUKUS, to the Quad, to the historic trilateral with Japan and Korea.
And with respect to that trilateral, he will meet with President Yoon of South Korea and Prime Minister Ishiba of Japan to celebrate the historic
cooperation between our three nations and discuss the importance of institutionalizing the progress we've made so that it carries forward
through the transition.
While in Lima, President Biden will also meet with President Xi Jinping of the People's Republic of China. This will be the third in-person meeting
between the two leaders since President Biden came into office, and their final meeting as presidents. They previously met, as you know, in Bali in
2022 at the G20 Summit, and at Woodside, California near San Francisco in 2023 on the margins of the APEC Summit, which was exactly one year and one
day ago.
And throughout his time in office, President Biden and his team have worked to effectively and responsibly manage the competition between the United
States and the PRC. The president's approach on the PRC has prioritized investments in sources of American strength at home, including growing the
middle class and ensuring that America maintains its industrial capacity and its innovation edge in fields such as semiconductors and artificial
intelligence.
He has strengthened our alliances around the world and especially in the Indo-Pacific. He has boosted American deterrence and he's ensured that
America remains the partner of choice for countries both in the region and across the world. The president has also taken commonsense measures to
advance our national security and protect our most sensitive technologies to prevent them from being exploited or used against us by the PRC,
including through significant new export control measures.
At the same time, the president has demonstrated that the U.S. and the PRC can manage our differences and prevent competition from veering into
conflict or confrontation, and he's done that by ensuring the maintenance of open lines of communication at the leader level, at the military-to-
military level, and at every level of our respective governments.
And we've also worked to advance cooperation where our interests align, including on counter narcotics and climate change, which is what the people
of our two countries expect and what the world expects. And this meeting between President Biden and President Xi will be an opportunity to ensure a
smooth transition and also to continue to keep those channels of communication open, including those especially critical military-to-
military channels of communication.
Of course, in Lima, President Biden will also meet President Boluarte of Peru to mark the strength and durability of our bilateral relationship with
Peru. After that, the president will travel to Brazil and he'll start with a historic stop in the Amazon to underscore his personal commitment and
America's continuing commitment at all levels of government and across our private sector and civil society to combat climate change at home and
abroad. And this has been obviously one of the defining causes of President Biden's presidency.
While in Manaus in the Amazon, President Biden will visit the rainforest, engage with local leaders who are working to preserve and protect this
critical ecosystem. And as I noted, this will be the first ever visit of a sitting U.S. president to the Amazon.
President Biden will then travel to Rio de Janeiro to participate in his fourth and final G20 Leaders' Summit. High on the agenda there will be
issues associated with debt sustainability for low- and middle-income countries, mobilizing finance for infrastructure, physical, digital energy
infrastructure around the world, and also dealing obviously with the major geopolitical issues of the day from Ukraine to the Middle East.
[13:55:00]
As you all know, the G20 is a unique forum. It includes both our closest allies and partners, as well as our adversaries, and pulling this group
together around shared challenges is never easy, but we do expect to make some progress, particularly around debt and finance during our time in Rio.
The president, of course, will also meet with President Lula of Brazil. The two leaders have really built a strong, productive relationship over the
last four years and they're looking forward to have their final meeting together as presidents as well.
So, we've got a busy week ahead of us and with that, as I said, I'll take a few questions and then turn it back over to Karine. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks again for doing this, Jake. In the run up to the election, President Biden warned that allies were worried about America's
commitment to the world. What's his message to those allies after this election?
SULLIVAN: Well, he's going to have the same message that he's had for four years as president, which is that he believes that America's allies are
vital to America's national security. They make us stronger. They multiply our capability. They take a burden off of our shoulders. They contribute to
our common causes, including the cause of standing up for freedom and territorial integrity in Ukraine.
And as I noted in my opening comments, when he goes to this Asia Pacific Summit in Peru, he'll go with our alliances in the Indo-Pacific at a
literal all-time high, Japan, Korea, Australia, the Philippines, a really remarkable record over four years and that's what he's going to hand off to
President Trump. And he is going to be making the case to our allies and frankly, to our adversaries that America is standing with its alliances,
investing in its alliances. And then, asking its allies to step up and do their part, which they have done these past four years, is central to
American strength and capacity and the world.
That will be his message. It's a message of principle, it's a message of practicality, and it's been a one of the causes of President Biden's life.
Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Korean national security obviously came up in the meeting today. You've suggested that the president would make the case to
the president-elect not to walk away from Ukraine. Was that message conveyed? How was -- it was -- how was it received?
SULLIVAN: Well, I'll let Karine speak to what happened in the meeting. I will only note that President Biden reinforced his view that the United
States standing with Ukraine on an ongoing basis is in our national security interest. And it's in our national security interest because a
strong Europe, a stable Europe, standing up to aggressors and dictators and pushing back against their aggression is vital to ensuring that we don't
end up getting dragged directly into a war, which has happened obviously twice in the 20th century on the European continent.
So, the president has made this case, he'll continue to make this case both privately and publicly. And he will make the case that our investment in
Ukraine. the funds that the Congress has appropriated, these aren't just dollars that we're picking up and shipping over to another country, they're
dollars we're investing here in the United States in American jobs, producing American weapons that we send to Ukraine and American weapons
that we are building to expand our own industrial base and our own military capacity to deter other adversaries all around the world.
So, he laid this out. He will continue to make this case as we go forward. And as we go through this transition, it will be our responsibility as the
national security team to lay out for the incoming team both what we see and, you know, in terms of the current situation, and how we believe that
the United States of America, through this transition and beyond, can put Ukraine in the strongest possible position on the battlefield so that it's
in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table for an ultimate deal. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The families of the American hostages who are held in Gaza are going to meet with President Biden today. We've heard from the
families that they would like to see the Biden administration and the incoming Trump administration work together to try to secure the release of
these hostages. Do you see any room for cooperation or coordination between your team, the president's team, and the and Trump's team to try and get a
deal before Biden leaves office?
SULLIVAN: I met with the hostages myself yesterday, and as you noted, President Biden will meet with -- the families of the hostages yesterday
and President Biden will meet with them very shortly. And they asked me this question, and I was very simple and emphatic with them. Yes, of course
we're prepared to work with the incoming team, in common cause, on a bipartisan basis, to do everything in our collective American power to
secure the release of the hostages, both living and deceased.
So, we are open to have that engagement, have that collaboration, and we will continue to work in every remaining day that President Biden has in
office, that we have in these jobs, to try to bring those hostages home to their loved ones. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to clarify real quick though, there's been no discussion here with the Trump team about doing that?
SULLIVAN: Well, I will say that this is a topic, obviously, the American hostages being held in Gaza that President Biden and President Trump
covered today. But we have not had the opportunity to --
[14:00:00]
END
