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Amanpour
Interview with former CENTCOM Commander, U.S. Army General and Middle East Institute Distinguished Military Fellow Joseph Votel (Ret.); Interview with Venezuelan Human Rights Activist Lilian Tintori; Interview with Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ). Aired 1-2p ET
Aired March 10, 2026 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We could call it a tremendous success right now as we leave here, I could call it, or we could go further.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Mixed messages from the president as the war with Iran rages on. So, what is Trump's endgame? I ask retired four-star general and former
U.S. Commander Joseph Votel.
Then, fighting for democracy in Venezuela. Trump may have removed the dictator Maduro, but is life any better under acting President Delcy
Rodriguez? Human rights activist Lilian Tintori joins me.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ): To see a major war like this come under without the support of the American people, without approval from Congress, this is
really setting up our country for failure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: -- New Jersey Democratic Senator Andy Kim tells Hari Sreenivasan how lawmakers can try to end Trump's new war in Iran.
And a very warm welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Paula Newton in New York sitting in for Christiane Amanpour.
It's day 11 of the U.S.-Israeli war with Iran and there is still no clear off-ramp. President Trump claims it will be over very soon, perhaps in a
bid to calm those surging oil prices, but he continues to make contradictory statements. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We've already won in many ways, but we haven't won enough. We're achieving major strides toward completing our
military objective. And some people could say they're pretty well complete. I could call it, or we could go further. And we're going to go further.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, confusing matters more, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says the U.S. will not relent until, quote, "the enemy is totally and decisively
defeated." It's in contrast to Trump's mixed messages. Iran is clear on its goals and says it is prepared for a long war. Although oil prices did, in
fact, fall sharply on Tuesday, they remain incredibly volatile. The world's top oil exporter in Saudi Arabia is warning of catastrophic consequences if
shipping doesn't return to normal soon.
In the meantime, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says we are not done yet in Iran, with Israel launching a broad wave of strikes on Tehran
overnight.
CNN Correspondent Fred Pleitgen has seen firsthand the human impact of this war that's on the ground in Tehran. Here's his latest report amid ongoing
strikes. And a note, Fred and his team operate in the country with the permission of the Iranian government, as required under local regulations,
but maintains full editorial control over what is reported.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's been heavy bombardment in Tehran over the past 24 hours, as we both
heard and felt. This morning, we visited a site when all of a sudden it was targeted again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we should go.
PLEITGEN: Yes, we should go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We go, we go, we go.
PLEITGEN: Yes. OK. We're hearing jets overhead. There's anti-aircraft cargo going out. It's supposed to be getting out of here as fast as
possible.
So, that just goes to show how fast things can turn bad here. We were filming at a site that was apparently -- remove this mask -- struck
yesterday.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Earlier, we'd spoken to folks caught in the attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was in the basement. I was thrown against the opposite wall. I was under the rubble. That's it. I
don't know what else to say. I'm sorry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: A reminder there of the pronounced grief on the ground in Tehran, and of course those dangers that are faced by ordinary Iranians, even at
this hour. We want to thank our Fred Pleitgen for his reporting there.
So, what is President Trump's endgame and strategy in this war? General Joseph Votel is a retired four-star general who was commander of the United
States Central Command, and he joins us now from Minnesota. General, I really want to welcome you to the program. Thank you.
Good to be with you. Now, as we just heard, President Trump is commander of the United States Central Command, and he joins us now from Minnesota.
General, I really want to welcome you to the program.
GEN. JOSEPH VOTEL (RET.), FORMER CENTCOM COMMANDER, U.S. ARMY (RET.) AND DISTINGUISHED MILITARY FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Thank you. Good to
be with you.
[13:05:00]
NEWTON: Now, as we just heard, President Trump has given, you know, very different signals on the span -- in a short span of hours here. He says
that on one hand it's pretty much complete, then the U.S. will, he says, go further until the enemy is totally defeated. You know, I want to ask you
from a military planning perspective, and I do want to point out, you served as U.S. commander of U.S. Central Command for three years, between
2016 and 2019. You would have been in the room, you would have been the commander on this mission. How confusing is this kind of messaging for
commanders and for allies trying to understand this mission?
VOTEL: Yes, thanks. It's great to be with you. So, certainly I won't try to interpret everything the president is saying. He has a very unique way
of communicating. But I think as I watched the Pentagon press briefing again this morning, at least the secretary of defense in talking about this
with the chairman, the military objectives, I think, stay pretty clear. So, you know, very much focused on taking away the war-making capability of
Iran, of the regime, to project that military power that they have beyond their borders. And so, I think the military, you know, is very much
directly focused on that.
I think what we might be seeing over time here, and I know there's been some strategic ambiguity in terms of our broader strategic objectives here,
but I think what we might be seeing is that they're actually, the tactical objectives may be very, very close to the strategic objectives, and that is
really focused on removing the military capability of the regime.
NEWTON: And let's get to some of those strategic imperatives here. Trump has said yesterday, he said this about Iran's military capabilities.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have no Navy. They have no Air Force. They have no anti- aircraft equipment. It's all been blown up. They have no radar. They have no telecommunications. And they have no leadership. It's all gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: So, given, again, that you, you know, up until 2019, saw the intelligence, you knew the capability firsthand in Iran, I wonder what you
make of the threat now, especially as we continue to see drones and missiles being fired. And I want to ask you directly about the
Revolutionary Guard, because some indicate that actually the Revolutionary Guard has continued to really up its game and has been ready for this for
quite some time.
VOTEL: Yes. Well, yes, there's no doubt that the military campaign has taken a heavy toll on the Iranian regime's military capabilities, whether
it's the Navy, whether it's their missile defenses, whether it's some of their drones, you know, and certainly their command and control. And I
think we've significantly disrupted that.
And -- but there are remnants, there are remnants of capabilities. And so, while, while Iran's -- a lot of its equipment is gone, it still does
possess some sort of a kill chain here that allows them to launch missiles. And as we've seen in the last few days, drones that will continue to, to
lash out. Now, those numbers of those are, are down, but nonetheless, they're very, very serious. Only one of those needs to be successful to
cause casualties or cause a lot of damage. So, I think what you see is the military really, really focusing in on trying to go after those means of
retaliation that the regime, you know, still maintains.
With regard to the -- you know, the IRGC, the Iranian Republican Guard Corps. Yes, clearly, they are the strength behind the regime. There's no
doubt about that. And they've been very closely aligned with the theocratic leadership here for decades. And so, they represent the, you know, kind of
the professional military, so to speak, response that comes is they are diehard, they're committed to the cause and they are going to fight. For
them, I think it's important to appreciate for them and for the regime, this is existential for them. So, they are going to fight hard, even after
the severe strikes that they've absorbed over the last 11 days.
NEWTON: Yes. And clearly some adversity ahead then. And especially when it comes, of course, to the Strait of Hormuz. You know, President Trump has
vowed to launch, in his words, fire and fury against Iran if it seeks to block even one tanker.
But Ali Larijani and the security and is one of the council of three leading in Iran right now, he posted on X that the Strait of Hormuz will
either be a strait of peace and prosperity for all or will be a strait of defeat and suffering for warmongers.
[13:10:00]
You know, you, again, at the table, what is your understanding of what the Trump administration can do to mitigate the dangers in the Strait of Hormuz
and actually get tankers moving again?
VOTEL: Yes. Well, having, having had the opportunity to sail through the Strait of Hormuz on board some of our U.S. Navy vessels, I have a good
appreciation for just how narrow this is, how dangerous it is. The advantages to the attacker, meaning Iran.
It's a very difficult transit route for ships to make. It's not easy. They are not moving at speed. They have to slow down. They have to pay attention
to a very specific route that they take through the Strait of Hormuz. And those all portend vulnerabilities for any forces moving through this.
So, you know, what -- in order to keep this open, what I would be advising is to make sure that we have addressed all the potential threats along the
shoreline. Of course, we have to make sure that Iran's, you know, very large number of sea mines has not been deployed in this area. We'd have to
use not only our own minesweepers, but perhaps undersea surveillance vessels to help us, you know, surveil that and understand what's out there.
And then, of course, we got to -- we have to be able to escort these ships through.
This is a big operation. And it will take a lot of resources to, to make sure that thing stays open so we can get these tankers through here. And at
the same time, we're doing that, we're also continuing to launch strikes here. So, this will become a choice for our military leaders at some
particular point. And the priorities that the administration has will help drive those things that we do on the ground.
NEWTON: That's interesting that you say it's a choice, especially in terms of resources. So, do you think there's a choice here between trying to de-
escalate right now and trying to actually open the economy, that you can't prosecute the war in this way and also keep the Strait open?
VOTEL: I think there's a choice between continuing to hit Iran hard, going after the retaliatory means And really, really destroying that, taking it
down as far as we can and dedicating our maritime and air resources to creating a situation where we can begin to move tankers through the Straits
of Hormuz. Those aren't, you know, exclusive of each other and -- but, you know, they both are resource intensive. They're both very high priorities
for us. And so, there has to be some decision in terms of what takes precedence over the other.
NEWTON: Yes, we are getting an idea from you on the scope of the challenge here. I do want to go to the civilian toll here on many around the world,
especially on that attack on the school in Iran. Now, video analysis now suggests that a U.S. Tomahawk missile struck a military base near a school
in Manab. Now, that's where Iranian authorities say 160 children were killed.
You know, there is reporting that that might've been due to dated intelligence. The school was separated from the site in 2016. I point out
you were the commander of CENTCOM at that time. You know, I do also want to point out though that you released the results of a similar incident in
Kunduz, Afghanistan in 2015. At least 170 people there were killed or injured. That was when a Medecins Sans Frontieres trauma center was
mistakenly targeted.
And I'm quoting you here now. You say at the outset, "When that investigation concluded that we are committed to learning from the mistakes
that were made and will work hard to train and put systems in place that reduce the risk of such an incident occurring again the future." I mean,
the Iranian incident here is just so tragically similar.
What does this say to you, especially as we have seen such equivocation from both the defense secretary and the president himself? They're saying
it's being investigated, but not much more.
VOTEL: Yes. Well, certainly. I mean, these are tragedy events and no commander wants this to happen under their watch or during the conduct of
military operations. And we always try to take, you know, extraordinary measures to try to prevent this from occurring. And my situation in
Afghanistan, based on my experience, our inability to sometimes get the civilian casualty challenge under control actually was impacting the
mission that we were giving there. So, it became a very, very high imperative on this.
There are a lot of challenges with the investigation into this. You know, it is -- they are hard things to investigate, but they are even harder when
you don't have access to the site and you don't have reliable sources on the ground that you can count on to get details. And then, of course, you
have ongoing combat operations.
[13:15:00]
So, you know, I think what's imperative here is to get to the bottom of this. And if there was a mistake made, to acknowledge that and commit to,
you know, preventing that from moving forward. That was certainly what we were trying to do with the situation at Kunduz. It was a horrible
situation. These things unfortunately happen. It's a really bad effect of combat operations here that we try to prevent. But, you know, when it does
occur, in my estimation, it's always best to try to do an investigation, try to be very clear with people, and try to get the results out there, and
then try to learn from that so you don't repeat it. And that's -- I mean, that's kind of how I looked at it.
NEWTON: President Barack Obama, in fact, at the time apologized inside of a week. We've not heard any of that. Do you think there would be available
information right now for the U.S. military to be able to tell the administration, look, this was likely a grave mistake?
VOTEL: Yes. I don't know what information is being passed back and forth. But certainly, I think a recognition that a mistake has been made, I think,
goes a long way to moving this forward. I'm not saying we should forget about it. We certainly have to understand exactly what happened here. But,
you know, we need to acknowledge if this was in fact caused by the United States, then we should acknowledge that. And we should do the best to
understand what happened and try to prevent it.
NEWTON: General Votel, you know, we get to the heart of the matter here when we discuss U.S. intelligence that now says Iran could potentially
retrieve highly enriched uranium, steel that is buried at the S-Fence nuclear site. That's even after all these strikes. Now, if securing that
uranium required a special force raid inside Iran, how risky would that operation be? And what would be the chances for success in your estimation?
VOTEL: Well, an operation like that, it certainly would be very high risk, just like, you know, what you're talking about with the Straits of Hormuz.
These are all significant operations. To put a force on the ground, even a relatively small, you know, defined special operations force, you know,
takes a lot of work. This isn't just on the coast.
We have to penetrate into Iran. We have to control the area. We have to be able to get the force on the ground. We have to be able to provide them the
equipment they need. And then we need to be able to do that for some period of time. Going in and doing a mission like this isn't something that will
likely be done in a period of darkness. It would likely take, you know, several days or maybe longer to go in and do this. So, first thing I think
to appreciate is this is a significant operation that has to be undertaken.
You know, U.S. special operations forces have a whole variety of unique capabilities. I won't get into all the details, but, you know, we -- they
are prepared to do missions of this nature. But again, it's significant. So, it would involve more than just U.S. special operators on the ground.
Our Air Force is having to maintain air superiority over this. We'd have to have some kind of logistical tail. We'd likely need some specialty forces
like explosive ordnance, disposal elements. We'd probably have to have a security force on the ground that was external to the special operations
force that was really focused on recovering the material.
And then we've got to get all that out of there. And we're talking about, you know, 1,000 pounds of hazardous nuclear material that, you know, that
has to be transported in a way that doesn't create a bigger problem and gets it back to some place. So, I think the picture I'm trying to paint for
you, these things aren't impossible. They're difficult. But they take a lot of planning. They'll take a lot of resources. It's not something we can
just do.
NEWTON: So, you've given us a very detailed picture. In fact, does that mean that by necessity, this conflict must go on at least for a few more
weeks, if not months, if they want to get to that uranium?
VOTEL: Well, again, I think this goes back to what the specific objectives that the administration has for -- you know, for kind of an end state here.
You know, I'm certain that our very excellent intelligence community is working overtime to do analysis and understand exactly the damage and how
far the program has been set back or destroyed so we can have some confidence in that.
You know, again, unfortunately, we don't have people on the ground. So, without that, you really can't have the level of certainty, I think, that
we're looking for. So, you know, whether this continues on or whether we try to work through some type of international organization or we try to,
you know, communicate to, you know, the remnants of the regime that we want to come in and do this, I mean, I think there are some options that can be
considered here. But, you know, in terms of extending the -- I think that really is a decision for the administration as they identify their
objectives.
NEWTON: Right. But I know you are talking about an extension there. The U.S. Navy torpedoed an Iranian warship off the coast of Sri Lanka. You
know, dozens were killed and injured. It did happen in international waters.
[13:20:00]
You know, Secretary Hegseth called that a quiet death. But I want you to listen now to more of his kind of war rhetoric, I would call it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Death and destruction from the sky all day long. We're playing for keeps. Our warfighters have maximum
authorities granted personally by the president and yours truly. Our rules of engagement are bold, precise and designed to unleash American power, not
shackle it. This was never meant to be a fair fight. And it is not a fair fight. We are punching them while they're down, which is exactly how it
should be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Death and destruction all day long from the sky. General, are you comfortable with that kind of language in terms of the way you conducted
yourself in your military career?
VOTEL: Well, I won't try to -- the secretary's words speak for themselves. I don't mean to interpret that or try to explain it. I think what -- you
know, as a senior military commander, my responsibility was to accomplish the missions that were given to me by the secretary of defense and the and
the president and do that in a way that reflected our values, reflected our adherence to the law of armed conflict. And of course, we're all conducted
in accordance with the with the rules of engagement.
War combat is a very difficult situation, it's not -- it's never going to be clean. And it requires, you know, hard decisions and hard work on behalf
of all of our men and women that are doing it for us. So, I think, you know, what I tried to do when I was in a position of leadership was, you
know, basically try to hold true to the values that we have as military professionals and certainly as Americans and conduct ourselves in a way
that is proud, the country would be proud of how we did it.
NEWTON: General Joseph Votel, certainly we've learned a lot in the last few minutes. I want to thank you for your insights.
VOTEL: Thank you very much.
NEWTON: Now, meantime, Israel is fighting a war on two fronts as well as continued strikes into Iran. The IDF is carrying out what it calls targeted
raids into southern Lebanon. So, when Israel needs the support of the United States most, how are President Trump's mixed messages going down in
Israel? Jeremy Diamond joins us, of course, from Tel Aviv.
Jeremy, I don't have to remind you, right, 11 days into this war, Iran is still able to fire barrages of missiles and drones. What's the latest from
there on the ground?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. We are continuing to see air raid sirens and barrages of ballistic missiles being
fired at Israel, although Israeli military officials tell us that those barrages are much smaller in size, sometimes just a single missile being
fired by Iran.
What they are telling us, though, is that about half now of the ballistic missiles being fired at Israel are armed with what's known as cluster
munitions, meaning instead of it being a single warhead that could carry some 500 kilos to a ton of explosive material, you're instead seeing
missiles with some 24 smaller bombs, each of them having about five kilograms or 11 pounds of explosive material maximum, but a much larger
challenge for Israel's air defenses and still having the power to not only disrupt daily life, but to cause destruction and also casualties here on
the ground.
In fact, we've now seen two people who've been killed as a result of those smaller bomblets, part of the larger cluster munition here being used by
the Iranians. And so, clearly still a present danger. But again, Israeli and U.S. officials say that they've had significant success in not only
destroying Iran's ballistic missiles in its storage facilities, but also striking more than half of their launchers and disabling them, preventing
Iran from launching those much larger barrages.
NEWTON: Yes. As we just heard from the general, though, Jeremy, even one can be dangerous in terms of capability inside Iran. Trump has said that
ending the war would be a mutual decision with Netanyahu. I mean, how is that playing politically inside of Israel? You know, you just highlighted
just some of the terror still going on there, not to mention, you know, the conflict as well spreading to Lebanon. How is all of this going down there?
DIAMOND: Well, certainly Israeli officials want to continue to prosecute this war and to do so for as long as it takes to achieve their ultimate
goal of regime change in Iran, which as of now, you know, we haven't seen any evidence on the ground that the conditions are right for that regime
change to take place. Instead, what we've seen is one Khomeini being replaced with another Khomeini.
[13:25:00]
And so, far, no signs of mass protests in the streets of Iran as a result of what Israel and the United States are doing, which is not only going
after Iran's military capabilities, targeting its senior political leaders, but also trying to kind of weaken the structures of the regime, including
its internal security forces, to allow for such a popular uprising to take place?
You know, Israeli officials have been closely watching the mixed messaging coming out of President Trump's mouth in recent days as to whether or not
this war is ending or if it's just beginning, depending on the time of day or the official from the Trump administration who's speaking. When they
heard President Trump at that press conference last night, I think it certainly gave them the confidence that the president isn't abandoning this
military campaign just yet, but also that he's clearly watching everything from the oil prices to the impact on regional stability, the politics of
all of this back in the United States.
And certainly, there's an understanding that time could be limited for the United States to continue participating in this. And Israeli officials feel
like there's still work to do on the ground in Iran. Officials continuously talk to us about more, quote/unquote, "surprises ahead," as we understand
that the United States is also considering the possibility of putting special forces on the ground to carry out operations in Iran.
NEWTON: Yes. And we just heard again from General Votel how difficult that would be. Jeremy Diamond, great for the update.
Coming up for us, two months after the U.S. capture of Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro, I asked human rights activist Lilian Tintori about how the
country's reforms are progressing. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Now, President Trump often touts the U.S. operation in Venezuela as the, quote, "perfect example" of how regime change can play out, two
months after the U.S. capture and removal of Nicolas Maduro. With acting President Rodriguez at the helm now, the government is pushing major
reforms on the country's mining industry. Reforms pushed by the Trump administration anxious to control Venezuela's oil. Meantime, those fighting
for democracy inside the country continue to face repressive tactics from this regime.
Our next guest is a longtime human rights and democracy activist and the wife of opposition politician Leopoldo Lopez. Lilian Tintori now joins us
from New York. Thank you for being with us. We really appreciate it.
As we continue to try and parse exactly what's going on on the ground in Venezuela, you know, you claim that over the past several months your
family has been -- your family home, in fact, has been systematically destroyed by SEBIN. Now, they are Venezuela's internal security force. Can
you describe for us what they've done to your home? And crucially here, what do you believe that tells you about how this regime is doing and what
their motives are in all of this?
LILIAN TINTORI, VENEZUELAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Thank you, Paula. It's so difficult. I couldn't believe this. When I saw that videos of my home, I
start shaking my body and crying. And I need to talk with my kids, with my three kids and with Leopoldo.
You know, Leopoldo Lopez is my husband. He's a powerful leader. He's a democratic leader from Venezuela. But maybe for Leopoldo it's difficult,
you know, like share emotions, but I'm here to tell the truth. I'm here to denounce this regime.
[13:30:00]
Look my home inside. They destroy our remembers, our memories, our -- you know, they're inside. The rooms of my kids are perfectly there waiting for
us. Our dogs, two Labrador's dogs, the name is Caracas and Coleo, our three birds. Our animals, they're inside. They took everything. They stole
everything, our personal things, things that maybe never going to be the same because it's not the things.
It's not a house. It's our memories. It's our life. My three kids born in this house in Caracas, Venezuela, in Los Palos Grandes, and my three kids
learn how to speak, how to walk in that home. Here with me is Federica (ph), my small little daughter that support me because I need to talk with
my family. You know, it's not only my situation, it's our family situation. But many Venezuelan people are in fear that they can't speak.
But today, I am the voice of millions of Venezuelans because they took many houses, many homes in Venezuela. We suffered a lot in the last 25 years. We
have been in a dictatorship. They persecute us. They attack us. And I want to say that I'm here because I'm fighting for our rights. I'm still
fighting for our country.
NEWTON: I do want to point out that we have reached out to the Venezuelan government. We have not received a response from them. And, Lilian, you, of
course, just spoke of those memories that you have of the children and that is your home that you're still not able to return to. Do you have any
expectation about when or how you will return in safety to Venezuela and to your home?
TINTORI: Of course. We have dreams. We are 10 million Venezuelan people outside Venezuela because we don't have choice. I need to escape by the sea
with my little girl in my arms. And many, many Venezuelan people are around the world and we have the dream.
And you know, I have a message for Delcy Rodriguez and for Diosdado Cabello, too. You know, you cannot break us forever. You know, our dream is
bigger than our fear. And we want a free Venezuelan and we want all the political prisoners with their families.
I'm in touch with all the families in Venezuela. Still, more than 500 political prisoners in jail. They torture them. They kill people in the
streets in the last years. They brought many Venezuelan families. And we cannot forget.
NEWTON: Lilian, have you gotten any response from the government whatsoever about what happened to your home?
TINTORI: Nothing. They only said that it's an order of President Delcy Rodriguez, the worker said that. I'm here because this is the house of
Delcy Rodriguez and we are doing this because Delcy Rodriguez gave us the order. It's my home. It's in my name. It's the only property that I have in
my life. That's the only home, the only house that I have.
But you know, it's not the house. It's the memories. It's our life in Caracas. Look, look, that's my house today. Look, they destroyed everything
inside and they put like a big wall, like a jail. So, many people can't see inside. But you know, the regime, the SEBIN, the policemen inside, they
record videos and send that to me and to Leopoldo. And we are -- I can say, it's too hard.
NEWTON: Lilian, obviously you believe this is a form of intimidation in your family and a warning not to return. You specifically spell out that
you are blaming Delcy Rodriguez. I want you to listen now to President Trump speaking about his relationship with the acting president there.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I like the idea of internal because it works well. Well, I mean, I think we've proven that so far in Venezuela. We have a woman, Delcy, who
has been president of the country, very respected, very she's doing a great job. And it's, you know, no disruption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[13:35:00]
NEWTON: If you listen to him, Lilian, it seems as if Delcy Rodriguez has carte blanche from the White House to run the government as she sees fit. I
mean, where does that leave you? Where does that leave the opposition?
TINTORI: I can say that Marco Rubio have all the information. Marco Rubio knows a lot about our country, a lot. Not now. In the last 20 years. So, I
believe that they know who they are. That's who they are. They destroyed the country and they, right now, destroyed my home. And it's not only -- I
need to repeat this, it's not only my case, there are many case inside my country.
In the last week, I received a lot of many families telling me, Lilian, the same for us, they took our apartment, they took our home, they took our
family's property. So, we are going to denounce. And Marco Rubio knows this a lot. Marco Rubio knows that Diosdado Cabello is a criminal.
NEWTON: But Diosdado Cabello, of course, is the interior ministry and he is at the side -- the way he was at the side of Nicolas Maduro, he is now
at the side of Delcy Rodriguez.
But, Lilian, I have to ask you, Maria Corina Machado, an opposition leader is not back in the country. I'm not sure if you know when she will be in
the country. But given the fact that Delcy Rodriguez still have the full support, it seems, of Donald Trump, where does your opposition movement go
from here? Especially because Rodriguez continues to point to the fact that hundreds of political prisoners under that amnesty law have been released.
TINTORI: We have the voice of many of many Venezuelan people. Maria Corina Machado is the leader right now. A woman full of courage. And I believe
that we are going to return home, as Maria Corina always said. I support Maria Corina, is one of my friends, is one of the politicians that I've
said is always fighting, always straight, and always saying the truth. And we support that we go to return to Venezuela.
And we want a very clear thing. Maria Corina said, we want free and fair elections. Because right now, they still have political prisoners in jail.
They released once, but there is still more than 500. And the regime is still there. So, we want a change. And we want to decide our future with
free elections.
NEWTON: Lilian Tintori, we continue, of course, to follow developments in Venezuela. And we really want to thank you for speaking to us. As the Trump
administration, as we say, continues to hold this up as a model, perhaps not just for Venezuela, but even in places like Iran. Lilian Tintori,
thanks so much.
TINTORI: Thank you, Paula.
NEWTON: Now, still coming up for us, how are American voters feeling about Trump's war in Iran and its potential consequences? Democratic U.S. Senator
Andy Kim tells Hari Srinivasan that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: As we discussed earlier, it's unclear how long President Trump's war in Iran will go on or what the real objective is. Our next guest argues
that the continued strikes are unconstitutional, and the conflict could have, quote, "disastrous consequences for the American people."
[13:40:00]
Democratic Senator Andy Kim tells Hari Sreenivasan how voters are feeling about the U.S. involvement in Iran and why he and his fellow lawmakers are
pushing to end it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARI SREENIVASAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Paula, thanks. Senator Andy Kim, thanks so much for joining us again. You recently wrote an op-ed
that was titled, "How My Fellow Lawmakers and I Can Try to End Trump's New War in Iran." In it, you said Congress must step in immediately to stop the
military action. Explain.
SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ): Because the American people, their voice is not being heard right now, and that needs to be at the forefront of this.
That's what the Constitution was trying to protect, that we are sending our servicemen and women into harm's way for something that is so clearly a
war. Even the president calls this a war, that that is something that needs to be done with the American people's approval. And this was not. And this
is something that I think is very dangerous.
As someone who worked in both Afghanistan and Iraq, to see a major war like this come under without the support of the American people, without
approval from Congress, this is really setting up our country for failure.
SREENIVASAN: You know, the president has offered several different explanations or reasons for engaging Iran right now. He said, we're going
to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. A couple of days later, he said, it was my opinion they were going to attack
first. They were going to attack if we didn't do it. He also said that we needed to topple the regime because it posed an existential threat to
America.
And again, let's say, for example, our audience is hearing these different messages. You're a senator. You have better access. Is there a better
briefing, a clearer explanation that the President of the United States is providing to you?
KIM: No, no, no. This is very clearly the president deciding that he wanted a war with Iran and his administration, and he himself trying to
figure out how to justify that, reverse engineer an explanation for this.
In some ways, this feels like the 2003 Iraq war in fast forward. You know, it feels like this is what we saw in years of that war and just how we saw
the shifting of the goals when we saw the mission creep. We're seeing that all within the first eight days of this war because this administration has
no clear objectives. We don't see what the end is where we can see us pulling out of this.
And that open-endedness is what, you know, again, makes this different than for certainly different from Venezuela, which also was done by this
president, but vastly different scale of what we're encountering right now, where we're talking about the eighth largest military in the world, a
country the size of California, Texas and New York State combined. It is a very significant adversary here.
SREENIVASAN: Before you were a senator, you worked in the National Security Council at the Pentagon, the State Department. You know, I wonder
to counter Iranian terror groups, you more than other senators know the power and strength of the IRGC. And as you just rattled off so many
different reasons, is the president correct in saying they are a threat to the United States and that they need to be eradicated?
KIM: They are certainly as a state sponsor of terror. And so, is North Korea. That doesn't mean that I support the United States going in,
especially without congressional approval, and then taking out leadership in North Korea. Yes, they're pointing nuclear weapons at my family in South
Korea, but that doesn't mean that that is what the United States can and needs to be doing at this moment.
You know, I was at the Munich Security Conference a couple weeks ago. You know, I see what's happening right now when it comes to Iran. Like America,
I've never seen America so isolated and alone as we are now. You know, we have really abdicated our global leadership role because leadership isn't
just about military might. Sure. Our military is incomparable to anyone else. We have by far the best military. We see the power we can do. It
doesn't mean we always use it. It is a tool and often a tool of last resort. But this president refuses to abide by this.
You know, you're right. I have spent years studying the Iranian regime, understanding the terror that they brought, the Shia militia groups that
they have networked throughout the Middle East and the world. And that knowledge gives me even greater concerns about where this war could head.
Sure, the Americans could at some point, Trump administration could at some point say, well, we're ending the bombs and the missiles.
But this new Iranian regime with a new leader just put in place after watching his father and his wife and a kid killed by the United States, you
think he's going to go easy?
[13:45:00]
You know, and he needs to prove himself to this country of 90 million people he's going to try to keep under his control. Do you think he's going
to be somebody that just turns over on the Americans? You know, this is something that very much opens the doors for a very long and protracted
war.
In the same way, if you were to calculate, how did Iranian forces and terror groups kill Americans the most? It wasn't through ballistic
missiles. It was through these IEDs, through other types of improvised terror operations and kidnappings that they've done over the years. So,
they have many tools at their disposal that we're going to be vulnerable to. And I worry about unleashing that upon the American people.
SREENIVASAN: Senator, in your time at the National Security Council and at the Pentagon and at the State Department, is there the equivalent of a
three-ring binder, so to speak, that says here are three or four plans on how to deal with Iran. And did the administration follow any of those
plans?
KIM: Yes. I can tell, like for instance, what I was pointing out about the lack of coordination with the State Department. The fact that Americans
abroad were not told to depart prior to the combat beginning. In the 2003 Iraq war, say what you will about it, you know, I didn't agree with it, but
the Bush administration did push forward, telling Americans to get out of the region before combat was undertaken.
You know, they set up all sorts of efforts to try to connect in with Americans. You know, the fact that Trump did none of that. In fact, the
first message of any consequence to people in the region, Americans in the region, happened 72 hours after the first bombs were dropped. So, three
days of silence. And it said depart now. You know, well, how? You know, when many of these countries had closed their airspace.
I mean, the fact that you see that, that shows you that they weren't actually following the plans. We have other efforts in place, for instance,
on understanding the cybersecurity threats that we could face here at home, especially with an adversary like Iran that has proven cyber capabilities.
The fact that this administration pushed forward on this war without CISA, our cybersecurity lead in the Department of Homeland Security, at full
strength.
The fact that they had gutted CISA, cut a huge swath of their staff, about a third of their staff earlier last year. You know, it shows you that they
are not thinking about all the different things that one needs to consider when taking on a war of this magnitude.
SREENIVASAN: You know, regarding Americans getting out of the region, the White House press secretary at a press conference recently, she said the
State Department will identify where you are and provide travel options directly to you. The administration is already rapidly chartering flights
free of charge and booking commercial options, which we expect to become increasingly available as time goes on. And the success of this mission
further comes to fruition. What's your response to that? Do you have constituents from New Jersey who are stuck there calling you?
KIM: Yes, they're stuck there. Many are trying to get their own way out because they're just not getting responses. I mean, look, I did press
Secretary Rubio about this in the briefing last week. And they have since been taking some actions. But where was this planning ahead of time? And
that's what I think is so concerning, just the risk that they put Americans into. And just it was clear that it was an afterthought. Like, they didn't
even think about it.
If what the White House spokesperson, you just said, if that was all true, why wasn't that said on day one of this war? Instead, on day three, they
said, depart now, you cannot count on the State Department to help you. Then several days later, they said, oh, here is what we're trying to do
now. So, it was just a constantly evolving situation where you could see, again, they're just making this up as they go along. They did not have any
day one plan for Americans.
SREENIVASAN: You've mentioned that our place in the world is changing rapidly because of these actions. Spain, for example, has refused to allow
the U.S. to use a military basis for strikes against Iran. And the president in response has threatened a trade embargo against Spain. And how
is this straining the relationship we have with our allies?
KIM: Well, first, I'll just say and point out that the people that are happiest about the United States at war in Iran are Vladimir Putin and Xi -
- and President Xi in China. Our adversaries are just joyous right now. This is exactly what they want. They want the United States bogged down in
a war in the Middle East that is taking away resources that we could be giving to the fight in Ukraine or to allies and partners in the Indo-
Pacific region as they're worried about what Trump might say to President Xi in China next month and whether or not that's -- you know, this war, the
fact that the United States has just taken this illegal, unconstitutional war in Iran now gives Russia and China greater credence to say that they
can do whatever they want.
[13:50:00]
You know, how can we criticize Putin going into Ukraine? How can we criticize Xi if he were to push Chinese forces into Taiwan or elsewhere
when we have just taken this type of action? Number two is, again, we are doing this alone. And that is something, like, I never imagined that I'd be
thinking that the 2003 Iraq war coalition of the willing would be seen as a great example of, you know, multilateralism compared to what we're seeing
right now in 2026.
What's our credibility like? You know, that we're bringing them all into even the Middle East partners that we have. I've been on the phone talking
nonstop with leaders who have the Middle East that just feel completely blindsided by, you know, these approaches and are now considering, you
know, the United States as just a force of chaos now and just continuingly hedging against us.
I even heard one leader of an allied nation say that they are now considering in their meetings the United States as a national security
threat. They see us as a threat to their own interests now, which is just so sad and scary to see as someone who worked on a NATO military base in
Afghanistan. The idea that we are now a threat to some of our allies is something that we should all be ashamed at. And this didn't have to be the
case.
SREENIVASAN: You know, Iran has just named Ayatollah Khamenei's son, Mojtaba, as its new supreme leader. And during an interview with ABC News,
the president of the United States said, if he doesn't get approval from us, he's not going to last long. What does this tell you about the regime's
stability, our diplomacy, our ability to influence what happens there?
KIM: Yes. Yes. Well, again, that's another example of where this is not just about retaliation or imminent threat. You know, this was always about
regime change for this president as much as some of his cabinet is trying to cover that up. This is clearly about regime change.
You know, the president also said something a few days ago. He said the worst-case scenario of all this action by America is if someone as bad as
the previous ayatollah is put into power. And that's exactly what we're seeing. You know, we're seeing his son, somebody who is considered to be
one of the most brutal leaders in Iran, someone who had been at hand of approving the brutal crackdown in 2009 of the Iranian people and killed
many, many untold thousands of Iranians.
This is someone with perhaps the closest ties to the IRGC Quds Force terror operation in Iran from the religious cleric level. So, we are putting into
place the preferred candidate of the terror operation of Iran, the Quds Force. That is what Donald Trump has unleashed upon our world. Someone who
is younger, someone who could very well be in power for some time. I remember when we finally captured Saddam Hussein eight months into the Iraq
War. Did things get better after that? Did things get less violent after that? Was there less threat upon the American service members? No, way more
Americans were killed after Saddam Hussein's capture than before his capture.
You know, I was in Afghanistan right around the time that Osama bin Laden was caught. Did that unleash a golden age for America? No, there was
continued violence. In fact, you know, we saw the demise of al Qaeda in Iraq and celebrated that only to see someone like Baghdadi take the reins
and turn it into ISIS.
So, just decapitating the leader has never proven to be a strategy that guarantees anything better. And especially with a country of 90 million
people with the eighth largest military in the world, you know, this is something that could very well unleash something even worse than what we've
seen before in terms of imminent threat. If we didn't have imminent threat before against the United States, we likely will have it now, thanks to
Donald Trump.
SREENIVASAN: Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey, thanks so much for your time.
KIM: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: And finally, for us, even in the face of persecution, many fearless Iranians are speaking out against the war, including Iran's
women's football team. Now, in a bittersweet moment, five members have been granted asylum in Australia, potentially abandoning hopes of seeing their
loved ones again.
[13:55:00]
This comes after the squad refused to sing the national anthem last week, prompting fears of harsh punishment upon return to their homes. Many have
shown concern for their safety, from blocking buses to rallying at airports. As two more members seek refuge now, others have reportedly left
Australia in pursuit of a route back to Iran. A difficult choice, of course, but a brave one in an uncertain time.
And that's it for now. If you ever miss our show, you can find the latest episode shortly after it airs on our podcast. And remember, you can always
catch us online, on our website, and all-over social media. I want to thank you for watching, and goodbye from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
