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Amanpour

Interview with The New York Times Magazine Staff Writer "Rise and Kill First" Author Ronen Bergman; Interview with Former Acting U.S. Ambassador to Cuba Jeffrey DeLaurentis. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired March 12, 2026 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Most people say it's already been won. It's just a question of when. When do we stop?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Trump claims victory even as the war escalates and the new supreme leader promises revenge. I'll ask journalist Ronen Bergman if the

U.S. and Israel are still aligned. Then --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It may be a friendly takeover. It may not be a friendly takeover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: -- Trump sets his sights on Cuba next. With the country on the brink of economic collapse and humanitarian disaster, where will that lead?

I'm joined by Jeffrey DeLaurentis, America's man in Cuba after diplomatic relations were restored under Obama.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD BLANKFEIN, FORMER CEO, GOLDMAN SACHS AND AUTHOR, "STREETWISE": There has to be kind of a reckoning, and the longer it takes, sometimes the worse

it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: -- "Streetwise," Walter Isaacson speaks to Lloyd Blankfein, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, about his rise from the public housing

projects of New York to the top of the financial industry, and why he believes the next economic crisis is coming.

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

A vow of revenge from Iran's new supreme leader. In a statement attributed to him, and read by Iranian state TV using a stock picture, Ayatollah

Mojtaba Khamenei's first proclamation pledges retribution for the death of his family. It also said the Strait of Hormuz will remain closed, and

called for U.S. bases in the Middle East to be shuttered. He has not yet appeared in public since his appointment.

Meanwhile, Iran is escalating its attacks on global energy supplies and its neighbors in the Persian Gulf. With the price of oil soaring, President

Trump insists that he's already won the war on Iran, saying, now it's simply a question of, when do we stop?

There are no signs of imminent collapse of the regime, though. That is according to U.S. intelligence. While Israel continues its heavy

bombardment of both Iran and Lebanon. So, are the U.S. and Israel still completely aligned in this war?

Let's bring in Ronen Bergman of the New York Times. He has studied and reported on Israel's military strategy for years and, of course, this

conflict, this war. So, welcome back to our program, Ronen.

RONEN BERGMAN, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE AND AUTHOR, "RISE AND KILL FIRST": Thank you, Christiane. Pleasure to be here.

AMANPOUR: You know, we all made, everybody made a big deal about how this was the first joint, highly integrated U.S.-Israeli military war. But now

there's more and more writing and talking about how potentially they may not be on the same page as they seek -- well, the U.S. seeks some kind of

exit strategy. What can you tell us?

BERGMAN: So, first of all, I think we need to be cautious, because at the top of the relations between the countries are, of course, the relations

between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu. And in spite of all the predictions that at a certain point Trump will just be tired or pissed

off with Netanyahu, Mr. Netanyahu, they continue to be aligned.

And Mr. Netanyahu was able to, I think, bring Trump, or at least influence President Trump to get to the exact point where Mr. Netanyahu thought that

he should bring Trump and the U.S. to -- I remind all of us that he was able to get Trump's blessing for the Israeli attack on the 12th of June

that convinced Trump to join that attack and now fulfilling his long-term dream to have a joint Israeli-U.S. strike that for the time being is done.

In most cases, in most areas coordinately, I would say that the Israelis -- this is also the first time -- Israeli military leaders fully accept the

principle that there will be only one person who shuts down the war, and until he doesn't say anything else, they will continue. And this person is

not Mr. Netanyahu, not this government, but Mr. Trump. That's the price they are paying for this alignment.

We see some differences in a few topics. One of them is some, I would say, attention on the issue of Lebanon. The Israeli leaders thought that they

have full, free leash to do in Lebanon whatever they want.

[13:05:00]

One of them is some, I would say, attention on the issue of Lebanon. The Israeli leaders thought that they have full, free leash to do in Lebanon

whatever they want. And there were some American officials who expressed sort of inconvenience.

The second thing is, of course, American rage over the bombing of the oil depot. They claim that it was not coordinated with them. The Israelis say

something else, but now it is an American order for the Israelis not to strike anything from critical infrastructure to storage of oil or gas

without getting a pre-permission from the U.S.

AMANPOUR: Well, that's interesting.

BERGMAN: And at the end of that -- yes. And at the end of that, also, I think that there were Americans -- and still this of course needs time and

further reporting, but the Americans were under the impression that Israel has, or some Israelis have a different intelligence assessment about what

is going to happen once they strike, that the regime is much more fragile, that the protests are going to be reignited or start again.

I don't know what they -- like, what was the assessment that led anyone to think that this will happen, but that there is a real chance to a regime

change. And to an extent, I think, part of the reasons that convinced Mr. Trump to go for this attack is the prediction that this, except for

attacking these people, assassinating the supreme leader, destroying these missile launchers, but that besides that, this will lead, that even today,

we would have been in a very different place. And it didn't work. I think this could lead to frustration.

AMANPOUR: So, let me then, you know, dig down a little bit. I reported what has been publicized that according to people familiar with the latest

U.S. intelligence findings, they're saying there's no weakening or no imminent collapse of the Islamic regime. And as you say, this is something

that Israel and Trump thought was going to happen. Others say, in fact, it's done the opposite. It's consolidated the regime around a much harder

line, core, in that the Revolutionary Guard are in the driving seat. And Mojtaba Khamenei, if he's in fact, you know, around, is very much aligned

with the IRGC.

What do you make and what have your sources told you, do they think Mojtaba is alive and well? Because clearly this statement was not read by him. No

picture of him. You could say that, you know, that's because they don't want to show him because they know he's got a target on his back. But what

do they think in Israel?

BERGMAN: So, first of all, he has a target on his back and you don't need sources, you just need to listen to the Israeli minister of defense, who

even before he was elected, said that he is a target. So, just open sources.

And Farnaz Fassihi, my great colleague at The New York Times and myself, we published a story about the possible reasons why we have not yet seen

Mojtaba Khamenei. One is, of course, security. But this doesn't explain the absence of a video that could be taken separately in a safe location of him

giving a blessing or answering the congratulation for him being elected.

And the sources, both Iranian and Israeli officials, are saying that he was injured, probably in the leg or the legs, maybe the stomach, in the first

day of the war. But some sources do not identify his location in the part of the supreme leader where his wife and his mother and his father and his

children were killed.

So, we don't -- we're not sure where, but I think we are quite certain that he was injured and now he's being taken care of in some kind of a medical

facility. But if you listen to the Israeli minister of defense, it needs to be a secret because otherwise they will kill him, which could be also a

contradiction to any kind of attempt of the U.S. to close the deal. Because if he is killed, then the chances, of course, are going to be even slimmer.

AMANPOUR: Well, that's interesting. So, listen, you know, you and others, I think you and maybe Farnaz and other colleagues, wrote an article about

the miscalculations amongst the Donald Trump camp as they went into this war, because many have expressed surprise at Iran's, you know, furious

retaliation wider than they thought. I don't think they really thought that they could or would close the Straits of Hormuz or, you know, attack quite

a wide array in the Gulf states of targets.

Is -- I mean, do they -- do you stand by that, that they were taken by surprise? And what do you think they're going to do? Does Israel care that

the Straits of Hormuz is closed or is this just an American and more global issue with the price of oil?

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BERGMAN: Well, there are some very prominent Israeli private businessmen who control much of the traffic, much of the tankers and much of the cargo

ships. So, it has an effect. It has an impact. But it's most about that effect on American economy and on President Trump and the pressures that he

is under which.

So -- and with the understanding -- I asked one senior officer, how would we -- how would he know that the IDF or Israeli Defense Intelligence would

know that they won the war? What's the statistics? What's the barometer? What's the bar? Where's the bar? And he said, well, it's not really up to

us, meaning it's up to President Trump.

I think that what the Israelis are -- the Israeli officials are trying to do now is to get as many targets hit as much as they have more targets. And

they say that they have many targets, especially now the military industry complexes, and this is a very big country, that are trying to get as many

hit, as many destroyed, because they know that this is on a limited time.

And I think that the assessment now in Israel would -- is that it -- would not be more than seven to 10 days until President Trump will call this off,

with either some kind of an agreement. We reported last week that there is a secret channel through the CIA, through the Ministry of Intelligence of

Iran and a European country, some kind of a bank channel between the U.S. and Iran that so far did not deal with anything.

So, it will either declare victory or go to some kind of an agreement.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BERGMAN: I think that there are only two things that really can change the war. One is if they are able to secure the bridge in Iran.

AMANPOUR: Yes. Let me ask you about that, actually, because you reported earlier this week that American intelligence had found that Iran, or maybe

another group, could retrieve Iran's primary store of highly enriched uranium at Isfahan. They told us, the U.S. and Israel, that this had been

entombed during the 12-day war.

How important or how much of a goal is that now? Because they say they've obliterated Iran's ability to continue its nuclear program, but there is

that highly enriched uranium, which is pretty dangerous stuff if it was used.

BERGMAN: Yes. So, both leaders at the end of the June war, President Trump said that the Iranian nuclear sites were obliterated, and Prime Minister

Netanyahu said that they removed both the nuclear threat, existential threat, and the missile existential threat for decades. Now, both of them

lied. This is not true.

Iran has 10 sufficient quantities. So, it can make 10 nuclear bombs of highly enriched uranium very close to the degree needed for a warhead that

Iran claims is stored under the ground in a place that was bombed by the U.S. military in June. They say that it's basically buried there. But U.S.

intelligence satellites discovered last few months a lot of digging taking place there, and they believe that the Iranians found the way or carved the

way or dig the way that they can actually send someone, and they are keeping very close that of the site to make sure that the Iranians are not

taking it.

Now, there are some speculations of U.S. planning -- or U.S. and Israeli planning to go and take the enriched uranium. If this happens, it fully

decapitate Iran's ability to go for a bomb if all the uranium is retrieved for a very long time, because the massive industrial enrichment cycle has

been destroyed. What they have, but if it's taken away from them, they cannot continue, and they need to start from the beginning.

But it's very, very, of course, dangerous, complicated, and I'm not sure that everybody is certain that it's all stored in one place, or maybe the

Iranians were clever enough to spread that in other places in Iran in case someone comes in and knock on the door of the bunker and say, please, hand

us the enriched stuff.

AMANPOUR: On the other issue of regime change, I mean, from all the info I can find, I think Israel is still quite committed. They'd like to see this

end with the possibility of the Iranian people being able to rise up. I noticed, and it's been written, obviously, that there was a little shift in

this end with the possibility of the Iranian people being able to rise up.

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I noticed, and it's been written, obviously, that there was a little shift in tactic or maybe strategy, I don't know, but overnight, Israeli drones

actually attacked a local Iranian, you know, in Tehran, a security checkpoint, which goes to the heart of the, I guess, the apparatus that

would be the repressive apparatus. What do you know about any of that, about drones being used against all these security personnel?

BERGMAN: So, first of all, on drones, one of the things that drives Iranian security officials really crazy is, how is Israel able to maintain

a regime of 24/7 fleets of drones flying over Iran all the time? And this is very far away from Israel. It takes a lot of time. The drones are slow.

It takes time to fuel it.

But Israel has these firing drones all over hunting for missiles or other targets, shifting them to fire on small targets belong to the regime or the

repressive part of the regime. That's part of what Israel is trying to do. It's not saying to lead the regime change, but it's basically saying to the

potential protest, we are preparing the ground for you to take over.

I think we already saw one tweet from Prime Minister Netanyahu saying that in a short while, we will hand over the baton to you, and you will

continue, you will have the conditions upon which you can start a revolution. I think this is quite naive, and maybe possibly also used as an

alibi for Netanyahu later. He would say, we prepared the ground. They did not rise up and started protesting again. Of course, you can understand

that because they were just butchered in many, many thousands.

I think Israel is trying to say that it's helping the protesters. Time will tell if this is indeed an encouragement and a help to the civil society to

rise up and go to the streets again.

AMANPOUR: And one last question, because it's clear that your government plans to continue its heavy bombardment, it says just going after Hezbollah

in Lebanon, and even beyond any end to the Iran war. Sources are saying that Israel is preparing for a significant expansion of attacks on Iran and

Hezbollah, et cetera, et cetera.

And you've heard your extreme right wing say, we're going to turn Nabataea, I think they said, in -- or one of those, Adaria (ph) --

BERGMAN: (INAUDIBLE).

AMANPOUR: Sorry. Yes, yes. -- into Khan Younis, i.e., flatten it, one of the Hezbollah strongholds. So, what do you think is going to happen there?

BERGMAN: So, first of all, until now, Israeli officials and military generals are under the impression that while in Iran, this is a joint

operation, as we discussed before, the U.S. has its own demands and its own orders what to do and what not to do. And Trump -- President Trump, is the

one who will call the shots and will decide when to end that.

But in Lebanon, they believe that the U.S. is giving Israel much longer leash to do longer, deeper, more extensive. And what we see now is the most

extensive operation that happened since the war in September 2024. Hezbollah, or the Lebanese government, was not able to enforce its

authority on Hezbollah, and they didn't risk to go to civil war and it sort of stayed in this way.

Israel used the opportunity of Hezbollah basically being convinced by the guards to start firing to help Iran at this time. And Israel reacted with

much more force, thinking that maybe it could take the opportunity and finish the problem. It's not working very well for now. Just last night,

they fired 200 rockets and missiles at Israeli urban areas, Hezbollah.

So, this organization, Netanyahu, the same that he said about the nuclear Iranian project that it's done, it's finished, destroyed. He also said

about Hezbollah and see that they are alive and kicking. This could take very long, much longer, unless the U.S. orders Israel to stop. This could

just continue for some kind of a war of attrition. And I think that Israeli military leaders were not planning that.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

[13:20:00]

BERGMAN: This is sort of escalation to something that they were not thinking would open a new front for the country.

AMANPOUR: So, let me ask you finally, and in my last couple of minutes, really, you are obviously the author of "Rise and Kill First." It's the

Israeli assassination program that you've dived deep into. And it's happened, you know, all over. And we've seen it certainly over the last few

years, since October 7th, and of course, before, and now in Iran.

It just seems that this is an endless decades long program that maybe cuts the top of the head off or whatever, but it doesn't change the

fundamentals.

BERGMAN: So, you know, it's not -- I invest eight and a half years of my life in working, researching for the book and trying to find one answer. Is

it good or is it bad to use targeted killing or assassinations? And of course, it's very hard, also from the moral and legal point of view.

I think that Israel, after October 7th, compiled a list that was authorized by the Supreme Committee of Intelligence and then by the cabinet, this was

late October of 2023, a list of something like 100 individuals that are authorized as targets for assassination. Most of them are already dead, the

vast majority. And this is pure retribution.

Now, of course, your question, Christiane, is does it help? Is it making the world a better place next day? In some cases, it did. In some cases, it

didn't. When this was -- and I think that the rule is when this was the target and not the tool that was used in order to reach the target or the

goal, it never worked.

And this is, I think, the main problem with this war. They went with great intelligence, precision weapon, with a lot of intrusion and infiltration

into the enemy ranks. But when you ask the people involved, what is the goal? What is the exit strategy? How do you know? How would you know if you

win? What's next? Except for more and more targets. You understand that it's not a regime change and it's not the retrieval of security uranium,

two main achievements that are not likely.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BERGMAN: That it's just saying that Israel won or the U.S. won and that's it. There's no other faith to do the whole thing.

AMANPOUR: All right. Well, listen, always great to talk to you, Ronen Bergman. Thank you very much indeed with all your deep knowledge of the

intelligence there.

And stay with CNN because we'll be right back after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Running on fumes. Donald Trump describing the situation in Cuba with the major oil blockade he's imposed causing a spiraling humanitarian

crisis. Long lasting power cuts, food shortages and a once vaunted health care system now collapsing. Trump is threatening a takeover. Cuba says it's

open to talk. So, what next? President Obama famously re-established diplomatic ties with Castro's Cuba in 2015 before Trump then reversed

course.

[13:25:00]

Jeffrey DeLaurentis served as acting ambassador to Cuba for two years and he's joining me now from New York. Welcome to the program.

JEFFREY DELAURENTIS, FORMER ACTING U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CUBA: Thanks very much. Good to be with you.

AMANPOUR: OK. So, if it's next stop Cuba, according to the administration, do you thin -- how do you think that would unfold?

DELAURENTIS: Well, I think clearly it will be the next stop. The president continues to talk about it. The secretary of state continues to talk about

it. We hear that there are conversations or negotiations going on between U.S. officials and members of the Castro family. It feels to me like we're

looking at a deployment of the Venezuelan model, talking to individuals.

We also hear that suddenly the president of Cuba should step aside or is a problem for the goals the U.S. wants to promote. So, clearly, they're

looking for change. Personally, I don't really like the notion of using humanitarian suffering as a political tool for change, but this is where we

are.

AMANPOUR: OK. So, let me just play you what President Trump said this week about this. And you say the Venezuelan model or a little bit like some of

the things he's saying about, you know, Iran, too. Here's what he said about Cuba.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: It may be a friendly takeover. It may not be a friendly takeover. It wouldn't matter because they're really in --

they're down to, as they say, fumes. They have no energy. They have no money. They're in deep trouble on a humanitarian basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, you spoke a little bit about how a friendly takeover would work. You mentioned Venezuela. How is that working? Just before we get into

whether it's viable in Cuba, how is it working now, several months later in Venezuela?

DELAURENTIS: Well, the idea, I believe, was stabilization, recovery and then transition. We don't really hear very much about transition and we

don't really hear very much about democracy or human rights. So, I think we're just going to have to wait to see how it how it unfolds.

But you mentioned Iran before. Of course, that was your earlier segment. And I see kind of a pattern here. We have the JCPOA. Trump's first

administration tore it up. Not too much progress was made between then and now. And look where we are with Iran.

Same thing with Cuba. We had, I thought, a good approach underway. Trump 1.0 tore that up as well. And now, look where we are.

AMANPOUR: I don't know. It is it is real. What do you think is the real aim? I guess what I'm going to do is play you the Cuban deputy foreign

minister who told this program that they don't represent any unusual or extraordinary threat to the United States. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLOS FERNANDEZ DE COSSIO, CUBAN DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER: Cuba poses no threat to the United States. It is not aggressive against the United

States. It's not hostile. It doesn't harbor terrorism nor sponsors terrorism. There are no foreign military bases in Cuba, contrary to what is

alleged, with the exception of the one existing in Guantanamo, the U.S. base.

Cuba has no trafficking drugs or illegal drugs that would harm the United States, nor there's organizing crime in Cuba, nor organized crime uses Cuba

as a platform against the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(CNN U.S. SIMULCAST)

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