Return to Transcripts main page

Amanpour

Interview with Former Iranian Deputy Vice President for Strategy Sasan Karimi; Interview with Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired April 08, 2026 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.

A ceasefire where both sides claim victory. Can it hold? First, the view from Tehran with Sasan Karimi, Iran's former deputy vice president for

strategic affairs. And what this means for American policy, with experts Ray Takeyh and Suzanne Maloney, both former advisers on Iran to multiple

U.S. administrations.

Plus, Europe between a rock and a very hard place after allies refused to join Trump's war of choice. Where does the NATO alliance stand? I ask the

prime minister of Greece.

And then Israel pounding Lebanon, sparking a major humanitarian crisis. The International Rescue Committee's David Miliband tells me what he just found

there.

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

An apocalyptic threat, urgent diplomacy, and now a ceasefire. Giving the United States and Iran two weeks to reach an agreement for lasting peace.

Trump's roundly reviled, some say genocidal language, may have paused the war for now, but it's not entirely clear what the United States has gained.

Trump and his men are putting the best face on this, from saying they will work with Iran to dig up and remove its buried uranium, to a joint U.S.-

Iran venture to control the Strait of Hormuz. And here's Pete Hegseth on regime change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's a new group of people who've seen the full capability of the United States military and has a new

calculus about what it means to negotiate with us, hence why they came to the table, wanting a ceasefire and the shooting to stop. So, this new

regime, which the regime has been changed, has a different interaction with the U.S.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: True or wishful thinking? Meanwhile, there are serious signs of trouble ahead with this ceasefire looking increasingly fragile. Trump is

now questioning the Iran 10-point plan that was the basis, he said, of the ceasefire and negotiations. And Iran says it's halting traffic in the

Strait of Hormuz after Israel unleashed its heaviest attack yet on Lebanon. The White House says Lebanon isn't part of this deal.

Let's bring in my first guest, Sasan Karimi. He's a professor of global studies at Tehran University and previously was deputy vice president for

strategic affairs, and he's joining us from Tehran. Professor Sasan -- Professor Karimi, welcome to the program.

Let me just ask you first, you just heard the secretary of defense, Hegseth, claiming that the regime has changed. There's a new regime, a new

group of people. Is that the case?

SASAN KARIMI, FORMER IRANIAN DEPUTY VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGY: Thank you for having me first, Christiane. I think that as long as -- I studied

political science at the university, there's not a regime change, classically. The people are the same, and the top people who are dealing

with the United States are the same. The top negotiator will be the spokesman of the parliament. The constitutional law is the same. The organs

are the same. The defense system is the same.

And the -- you know, the defense minister of the United States wants to just coin something to pretend victory. It is not a big deal, I think.

People need to pretend victory after wars. It is understandable, but it is not that much professional way of redefining the concepts that people are

very familiar with.

AMANPOUR: OK. Well, does that mean Iran is doing what is expected, pretending victory, because it is claiming victory, calling it a great

historic one? All the rightful demands of the Iranian people have been met.

[13:05:00]

But as you know, I'm sure that by any measure, your country has suffered great losses, particularly in the military field. As you know, the U.S.

keeps saying it's decimated capabilities. But there must have been big losses. How do you assess whether Iran won or lost?

KARIMI: You know, victory in a war defines -- depends on which side you are. If you are attacking a country occupation or any other manifest that

declared goal before or during the war can be your victory, you know, achieving this. But if you are defending your country, only defense of your

country, protecting your sovereignty and not being occupied will be your victory.

Not -- for example, no damage can affect your victory, because when you are attacked, definitely you will be damaged. And it is not a point to

criticize you or blame you as a loser. A loser in defending a country is not who is paying the cost that can be compensated in future by the

violators. But anyways, it is not losing.

Definitely Iran suffers a lot and paying a lot of costs and a lot of assets are damaged. But, you know, a big loss like losing prestige, of national

prestige. And today, people on the streets are much more united defending our country. And, you know, they are much more -- they feel much more

prosperous. And that is a very big gain for a country that is defending itself.

AMANPOUR: OK. Professor Karimi, let me ask you, obviously part of what statements went out, there were two, one from the Supreme National Security

Council and one from the foreign minister. But the most, you know, the biggest demands by Iran is that the America has agreed to, in principle,

lift all primary and secondary sanctions, withdraw U.S. combat forces from all bases in the region, accept Iran's nuclear enrichment, recognize its

continued control over the Strait of Hormuz.

While Trump says, you know, that, no, we will have a potentially a joint operation with Iran over the Strait of Hormuz. And he says there will be no

enrichment of uranium and the U.S. will work with Iran to dig up and remove all the deeply buried, what he calls nuclear dust. Where is Iran on these

points?

KARIMI: You know, I think Donald Trump cannot find the things that he couldn't find with war, now with diplomacy or with a ceasefire. So, he

tested many things, serving the protesters and the terrorists, not the people who protested, the terrorists with weapons that he confirmed in

January, I mean. And two times aggression against the country. So, he lost and he couldn't take what he wanted, like the uranium, et cetera.

Iran is flexible inside the framework declared for gaining the (INAUDIBLE) other fires that it agreed. But at the same time, you know, this part can

be negotiated, but not that much. Today, the topic is a violation of the -- violating of the ceasefire by Israel in Lebanon and sometimes in Iran even,

that is violating the agreement signed by the United States, because you know, Iran does not recognize Israel. And not signature, but a kind of

agreement, a verbal agreement that is being violated.

So, this is today a kind of violence and the agreement and the negotiations will be on the, about the same topics, but inside the framework that, and

based on the framework that Iran declared. So, Iran will push --

AMANPOUR: All right. Let me just jump in there. Let me just jump in because the U.S. says Lebanon is not part of it, but that's to be

discussed. But let me ask you about the Iranian people.

[13:10:00]

You make a pretty notable distinction between the protesters and what you call terrorists who came in with weapons. But I want to ask you about the

protesters because your government massacred, killed, mowed down thousands of Iranians, thousands of Iranians who were protesting for their rights and

their economic survival.

So, my question is, what is going to happen? What will your government do now that it's still in position to these protesters, including meeting

their economic demands? Because right now you have no sanctions relief. There is no way that you can actually meet their economic needs. And

already there are crackdowns that have been throughout this war on, let's say, democracy activists, protesters, taking them to jail, their

executions, and the like. What is going to happen to the Iranian people?

KARIMI: You know, it is not true because it was 11 days protest in (INAUDIBLE) Tehran. Normal people protest -- were protesting, were on the

street. And police was also on the street without any gun. And when Donald Trump declared whatever he said and threatened Iranian political system and

also other things happened, a new group came that today, there are names like the Everlasting Guard, let's say. They are a fake group of terrorists.

And they're not real people. The 11th day of protest, they came to the streets and started for a bloody violation. So, it was not a normal one.

You know, I am following all the protests since 1997, you know, when I was a teenager at the university. And all in 2009, I witnessed all the protests

very closely. But this time was totally different. So -- but yes, that's true that beginning of this -- the start of this protest was economic. And

without relieving the sanctions, it is very difficult to ease the situation.

So, that's why one of the main terms of Iranian 10-point declared situation and the conditions is relieving all the secondary and primary sanctions and

also human sanctions.

AMANPOUR: Professor, I understand what you're saying. We got -- the connection is getting bad. But, you know, I don't know. Do you think you

killed -- no. I mean, the regime killed no innocents? And do you think that once things quiet down a bit, the people will come out and protest again?

KARIMI: No, I don't have enough information, definitely out of 3,000 people. It's difficult to say no protester was killed or not any police was

killed. Both sides were killed, but it was very sad moment. But now it's not the topic of today. Again -- but maybe not because today the social and

the psychological condition of the society is totally different.

And now, it's very much more obvious that the (INAUDIBLE) country is because of nonsense, you know, embargoes against Iran, because of not

having any nuclear weapon, not having any initiation of war, not having any aggression against any other country since couple of centuries ago. So,

now, today after this war, people of Iran are different, I think, much more united and much more aware.

AMANPOUR: Professor Sasan Karimi, thank you very much for joining us from Tehran. Later in the program, European allies are welcoming a pause with

Trump railing against NATO after they declined to enter his war of choice. Where does the alliance go from here? I asked Greece's prime minister.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:00]

AMANPOUR: Trump's war on Iran has been a lonely one, a joint bombing campaign with Israel, but without the help of America's traditional allies

who all declined to get involved. Europe is in a tricky spot. Trapped between the United States that didn't consult them, and then threatened

with pulling out of NATO when they didn't join in his war of choice. Secretary General Mark Rutte is in Washington today on a damage limitation

mission.

Now, to discuss all of this, I'm joined by the Greek Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis from Athens. Welcome back to our program, Prime

Minister.

KYRIAKOS MITSOTAKIS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: Hello, Christiane. Good evening from Athens.

AMANPOUR: Good evening. So, what do you -- what's your immediate thoughts about the so-called ceasefire, the two-week possibility and window, but

also Iran is saying, you know, what's happening in Lebanon? Trump is saying we can't, you know, negotiate because they're showing us a different

document. What do you think is going to happen from here?

MITSOTAKIS: Well, first of all, let me point out that Greece joined a common statement, which was signed by many European leaders, welcoming the

ceasefire and hoping that we can use this 15-day window to reach a negotiated settlement. And I do believe that we have reasons to be

cautiously optimistic.

Having said that, I would like to express my deep concern about what is happening in Lebanon, because it is very clear to me as a country, which is

relatively close to Lebanon, that the Israeli offensive right now is completely counterproductive. And I do believe that if we want to talk

about a complete ceasefire in the region, it needs to essentially extend to all theaters of operation, including Lebanon.

We need to give some space to the Lebanese government to do its job in terms of taking control of the Lebanese south. And by attacking Lebanon

right now, the only thing that Israel is achieving is giving Hezbollah, which has already been significantly weakened, a new lease of life.

AMANPOUR: Well, I mean, you're very, very clear on a position. I could ask you, do you think, like many think, that the Israeli government just

doesn't want to ceasefire and is not interested in lightening up, certainly not on Hezbollah?

MITSOTAKIS: Look, I want to be very clear, Christiane. We have a strategic partnership with Israel, but, you know, friends need to speak truth to

friends. And my view on Lebanon has been very clear. For the first time in decades, I think we have a competent government in Lebanon. If these

attacks continue, you will have a humanitarian catastrophe. It is already evolving.

But you will also end up legitimizing -- delegitimizing completely the Lebanese government. I don't think this is in Israel's long-term interest.

And I would hope that these operations stop as quickly as possible, not just for humanitarian reasons, but also for making sure that we maintain,

you know, a general framework of a ceasefire that encompasses the whole region.

AMANPOUR: I hate to just harp on Israel, but the prime minister, Netanyahu, is speaking, as we're speaking. He says, we have more goals to

accomplish, either in agreement or by force. Our fingers are on the trigger. So, let's wait and see what that means.

In the meantime, what is your biggest takeaway from what needs to happen in this, if it continues, this ceasefire between the U.S. and Iran,

particularly around the Strait of Hormuz?

MITSOTAKIS: Now, obviously, we have a skin in the game, Christiane. We are one of the largest players in terms of the Greek-owned and Greek-controlled

maritime fleet.

[13:20:00]

And I've always been defending the freedom of navigation. And this is becoming a critical topic vis-a-vis the future of the Strait of Hormuz. I

mean, the Strait of Hormuz was always, you know, a free strait in terms of freedom of navigation. And I think it remains, it needs to remain that in

the future. I don't think that the International Community would be ready to accept Iran setting up a tollbooth for every ship that crosses the

straits. It seems to me to be completely unacceptable. So, I do believe that intense negotiations will take place.

I think it is possible, Christiane, that we may end up needing a separate international agreement regarding the Strait of Hormuz. There are

precedents in history, but this agreement cannot, I repeat, cannot include sort of a fee that ships will have to pay every time they cross the Strait

of Hormuz. This was not the case before the war started, and it cannot be the case after the war finishes.

AMANPOUR: Well, I mean, you know, the Strait of Hormuz wasn't closed before the war started. The war made Iran do it --

MITSOTAKIS: It was closed and it was open, and no one paid anything in order to cross it. We would be setting a very, very dangerous precedent if

that were to happen for the freedom of navigation.

AMANPOUR: So, Prime Minister, what -- I mean, this is your major ally. The Transatlantic Alliance has been the form of, you know, alliance, you know,

since the Second World War. Do you think it's weakened beyond repair? Do you think even Trump threatening to pull out, it weakens it? And where do

you see it in the next month, years, you know, where do you see it going?

MITSOTAKIS: Well, I'm a firm believer in the longevity of the Transatlantic Alliance. At the same time, I do recognize that we're

currently faced with significant challenges. But I would also like to point out, Christiane, that as a result of initiatives taken by the U.S.

president, Europe has gotten its act together when it comes to defense.

President Trump was right to say that essentially Europe did not pick up its fair share of the burden in terms of defense spending. Greece was

always the exception for our own geopolitical reasons. We're currently spending more than 3 percent of our GDP on defense. And I can tell you that

there's a lot of momentum in Europe to strengthen the European strategic autonomy pillar. And I think this will be good for NATO.

So, I think we need to take our defense in Europe much more seriously than we have done so in the past. By doing so, I think we will also rebalance

NATO in a way that will be in the interest of the alliance as a whole. And certainly, Greece is hoping to lead in this initiative. And I'm happy that

many other European countries are taking the defense of Europe much more seriously than they had in the past.

AMANPOUR: Including Greece has joined an initiative to have a nuclear protection, like nuclear umbrella right here in Europe, you know, as was

proposed by the French president.

MITSOTAKIS: That is correct. We've started preliminary discussions regarding some proposals by President Macron. As you know, France is the

only country that currently possesses a nuclear deterrent within the European Union. And again, any discussion to strengthen the European pillar

of our European defense, I think needs to be welcomed by European countries.

Again, I don't think this will happen at the detriment of NATO, but we need to recognize that NATO was essentially, and still is to a certain extent,

an alliance that is way too much dependent on the U.S. So, we need to also pick up our fair share of the burden and make sure that we increase our

defense spending bolster our European defense capabilities. And I can tell you that this is a topic that is frequently discussed at the European

Council, and we're making significant progress in that direction. The Trump effect, so to speak.

AMANPOUR: Now, let me ask you about something else that you have announced as a government, and that is the social ban. You've announced that Greece

will ban social media for children under the age of 15 from 2027. Tell me about these conversations you say you've had with parents. And obviously

other nations have done it. Australia was the first, and there are also other nations who are very interested in doing this.

MITSOTAKIS: Well, Christiane, I first raised this topic 18 months ago at the speech of the United Nations General Assembly. At the time, no one was

really talking about the impact of social media on the mental health of children.

I can tell you, it is the first topic when I discuss with parents who have young kids and teenagers. And they do ask us, do something about it. Even

the kids themselves recognize that the way these platforms are designed contributes towards them spending too much time on screens. There are clear

correlations in terms of their mental health. And it shouldn't come as a surprise because these platforms are in the attention business.

[13:25:00]

But they just should not capture -- start their business model with capturing and monetizing the attention of our kids and our teenagers. So,

we have announced a ban on social media for kids under 15 to go into effect January 1, 2027. But I've also sent a letter to the president of the

European Commission because we cannot do this on our own. We need Europe's assistance.

As you know, the large platforms are regulated by a European piece of legislation called the Digital Services Act. And my vision and my hope is

that what is currently going to become Greece's policy, and of course there are many other European countries moving in that direction, will eventually

also become a European policy.

And I would hope that Europe leads on this front because this is a global problem and the platforms need to recognize that they need to cooperate

with us and they essentially need to accept --

(CNN U.S. SIMULCAST)

[13:25:00]

END