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Amanpour
Interview with Former CNN Chairman and CEO and "The Greatest Sentence Ever Written" Author Walter Isaacson; Interview with Naturalist David Attenborough; Interview with "What I Learned from Mom" Author and Sesame Workshop President and CEO Sherrie Rollins Westin. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired May 08, 2026 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
WALTER ISAACSON, FORMER CNN CHAIRMAN AND CEO AND AUTHOR, "THE GREATEST SENTENCE EVER WRITTEN": Now, more than half the world has that sense of
democracy, of individual rights and freedom. And that's what they stood for 250 years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: As America turns 250 years old, is it in the grips of a full- blown identity crisis? I asked journalist and historian Walter Isaacson.
Plus, Palestinian reporter Ali al-Samoudi recounts the brutal conditions he experienced inside an Israeli prison after being jailed for a year without
even being charged.
Then, protecting our planet and its extraordinary wildlife. On his 100th birthday, a look back at my conversation with the beloved British
broadcaster Sir David Attenborough.
Also, ahead, Sesame Street CEO Sherrie Rollins Westin joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss her new book, "What I Learned from Mom," which
reflects on the important life lessons that mothers give some of America's most successful people.
Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.
It's 250 years since the Declaration of Independence that brought about the United States of America. It's an important milestone but also a reality
check on the nation's current identity crisis. With midterms looming, the U.S. right now is more deeply polarized than ever. Overseas too, the Trump
administration is waging multiple conflicts that it began. And all while threatening to rip up long global alliances that the U.S. was fundamental
in creating.
In his new book, "The Greatest Sentence Ever Written," Walter Isaacson reexamines the second line of the Declaration of Independence and how it
continues to inform what it means to be an American to this very day. Walter, of course, is my colleague on this program and we spoke here in
London just after the news of the death of CNN founder Ted Turner. Walter had been chief executive of CNN in the early 2000s and I've been here 43
years, almost since the beginning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Walter Isaacson, welcome to the program.\
WALTER ISAACSON, FORMER CNN CHAIRMAN AND CEO AND AUTHOR, "THE GREATEST SENTENCE EVER WRITTEN": Thank you, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Part of our program of course, and my former boss as president of CNN.
ISAACSON: Well, colleagues. We were all together back then.
AMANPOUR: No, you were the boss then. Now, we're colleagues. Let me ask you, of course, the passing of our great founder. I mean, it's really an
irreplaceable loss and he was a unique individual. You have written so much about the geniuses of our era in every field and I think you count Ted as a
genius.
ISAACSON: Totally. A total innovator. I always write about innovation, which means thinking out of the box and this notion that you do a 24-hour
cable news around the world global. It changed geopolitics. It changed our world. It was partly because Ted was crazy but he was crazy like a fox and
we all loved him.
AMANPOUR: It's the kind of crazy that's very good crazy.
ISAACSON: Exactly. It makes you march through walls for him. But also, to see things that people couldn't see. People told him he was crazy to try to
start a satellite news network type thing, but the world is so different because of it.
AMANPOUR: And when you were asked to be president shortly before 2001, 9/11, it had been called chicken noodle news for a long time. What did you
think you were getting into?
ISAACSON: Well, I knew that it cared with you there and Nic Robertson and all these people about international coverage.
AMANPOUR: Wolf. Oh, yes.
ISAACSON: Wolf Blitzer and others, that it was kind of problematic back then before I came because there was no big news. We were covering shark
attacks or O.J. Simpson car rides or something but then when it really mattered and 9/11 happened.
I'll tell you a story. 9/11 happened. I'm in that newsroom in Atlanta. It's about 7:00 a.m. Eason Jordan and all the people you know there were
watching the plane. The plane's hitting and Ted Turner was not really involved with CNN much then because the Time Warner people had kicked him
upstairs. But --
AMANPOUR: And the disastrous AOL kicked him further upstairs.
[13:05:00]
ISAACSON: Yes, and they didn't want him involved. So, he didn't come to the newsroom much. But when that Twin Tower started to come down, I said to
Eason and others, wait a minute. I went up to the fourth floor at CNN Center and Ted was in his office. I said, Ted, can you come down to the
newsroom? He said, well, I'm not. I said, Ted, we need you and he was watching this and he grabbed a sword from the wall of his office and he
came down to the newsroom and he said, this is why we created this network. Cover this war right.
AMANPOUR: That is really a great story and it is his legacy and not just cover it right but cover all sides of the story. You know, it was an
American, he's an American entrepreneur. It's an American network. But he never covered it just from the American side. It wasn't rah-rah patriotism
or political agenda. He told us we had to cover all sides of the story and that almost seems quaint in today's highly politicized media world.
ISAACSON: It was really bad because we were all one country right then after 9/11 but then the polarization set in and you saw it with the rise of
other cable networks. People would accuse CNN of being, you know, non-anti- American or something simply because we were interviewing people on all sides and that's what we're starting to lose these days is this notion that
you really want an objective news station that covers all sides.
AMANPOUR: Now, let's get to your book and let's get to where we are in America right now. Not just the media but American society, civil society,
the respect for constitutional precedent and norms. It does seem as America is about to celebrate 250 years of the Declaration of Independence and
you've just written a new book which I'm going to ask you about that this is a moment of massive identity crisis and a crisis of almost a
constitutional crisis. Is that too dramatic?
ISAACSON: No, I think it's right although we've been here before and if you remember 50 years or so ago, we had gone through Watergate, the
resignation of the president, the assassinations of Kennedys and Kings, urban riots and then we had our Bicentennial and rang the Liberty Bell, the
tall ships came in and we healed. We came together as a nation.
I was hoping this would happen for our 250th because we are so polarized and it's why I wrote this book which is let's go back to the Declaration.
We hold certain truths to be self-evident. Let's remind ourselves and when I say ourselves it's not just America but now more than half the world has
that sense of democracy, of individual rights and freedom and that's what they stood for 250 years ago and we really should try to celebrate it this
July 4th.
AMANPOUR: Celebrate and try to restore it because it seems to be --
ISAACSON: Defend it.
AMANPOUR: Defend it. I mean, I'm watching from abroad but the great values that the Declaration gave to the world not just to America and the rule of
law and all the norms just do seem to be under attack by this current Trump administration who makes no bones about it. They believe in the maximum
extension of executive power at the expense of all the other branches of government legislative, judicial, media.
ISAACSON: I think what you've seen though is it's longer than that. It's the past 20 or 30 years where globalism and free trade were great at
creating wealth but it hollowed out a middle class, a working class whether it be in Europe or the United States and you had a backlash and sometimes
we didn't fully understand it.
I mean, we who lived in Washington or New York and others, and I think we have to get back to that notion of common ground where if we're going to
have wealth in a society whether it's A.I. driven or technology driven we have to make sure everybody participates and that we all share a certain
common values and common services that got a bit lost so you've had a populist revolt, whether it's here with Brexit, whether it's in Hungary,
but you also see the pendulum starting to swing back. So, I'm optimistic.
AMANPOUR: Good, I'm glad you're optimistic because it's very important America is the world's only superpower and has those unique ideals that it
has been transmitting to the rest of the world for so, so many years.
Your book is called "The Greatest Sentence Ever Written."
ISAACSON: Yes.
AMANPOUR: What is it and why?
ISAACSON: Well, it's the second sentence of the Declaration, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal endowed by their
creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Pretty quick, right?
And, you know, it seems like we can all say it by heart. But I wanted us to look at each of those phrases. What do you mean by created equal? What is
the pursuit of happiness? When we ask about an economy, well, you know, Jefferson had the phrase was pursuit of property, when John Locke wrote it,
Jefferson says, pursuit of happiness because you want a good society. So, let's look at those values that we share. That sentence did not describe
America in 1776. One-fifth of the continent was enslaved people.
[13:10:00]
But that sentence became a forcing mechanism. Four score and seven years after it's written, Lincoln uses it at Gettysburg to say, a nation
conceived in liberty and dedicated to proposition that all men are created equal. He's burying 7,058 people who had died to make that sentence more
true. Martin Luther King quotes that sentence. So, that sentence becomes a mission statement, not just for the United States, but for all people who
love freedom around the world.
AMANPOUR: So, unfortunately, approval of U.S. leadership, according to Gallup, has declined by 10 points or more in 44 countries around the world
between 24 and 25. Declines concentrate amongst U.S. allies, including many NATO partners. China has surpassed the U.S. in global approval in 2025.
This is crazy stuff. This is game-changing stuff, possibly. What does America have to do to regain its supremacy, at least in human rights and
civil rights and all the constitutional rights? I don't mean militarily. I mean in all the rights that the Declaration gave the world.
ISAACSON: When you talk about the Declaration, I talk about the great second sentence, but the first sentence explains that, which says, a decent
respect for the opinions of mankind. That's what Jefferson and the founders had.
And what we need to do is understand that our power comes not just from our battleships, but because of our values. And American foreign policy always
has to be a balance or an interweaving of realism, where we look at our national interests, and idealism, where we say we're standing for these
values around the world. I think we've lost that balance now. We have to reassert that we're the country that believes in individual rights,
freedom, and democracy.
AMANPOUR: Also, I want to just refer to a couple of images, and there's a beautiful image which will show, as they were writing, the all are created
equal. And obviously, Jefferson's valet was a slave, and he's not visible in this painting. And then the sentence, the greatest sentence was at first
called -- it was called sacred, and then they put self-evident, these principles.
ISAACSON: You see a balance, because Jefferson writes, we hold these truths to be sacred. If you look at the declaration first draft, there's
the apprentice pen of Benjamin Franklin crossing that out with backslash and putting self-evident. He's saying we're trying to create a new type of
nation in which our rights come from rationality and reason. Then it goes on to say, endowed with certain unalienable rights. John Adams puts it,
endowed by their creator. What you see there is a balance.
AMANPOUR: A battle, and a balance.
ISAACSON: A balance, where the understanding that there's rights comes from rationality, but also divine providence gracing our nation, and that
we shouldn't tear ourselves apart on religion. We have to get back to that notion that we have contending forces, but we have to keep them in
equilibrium.
AMANPOUR: OK. So, two questions then. The issue of religion, there's a clear separation of church and state in the United States, unlike in many,
many parts of the world, and yet the president is basically, without shame, putting up A.I. images of himself as Christ, even though he says it wasn't.
Then with Christ, then you have the secretary, he calls himself, of war, using the crusade language and prayers from the Old Testament, and et
cetera, and you, to justify this war on Iran. That's not what the founders had in mind.
ISAACSON: Well, the founders were deists, most of them, Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin in particular, meaning they believed in the idea of a creator,
but they didn't believe and enforce any particular dogma of any particular religion, and they brought a new type of innovation to this planet, which
was a nation that respected all forms of belief.
During his lifetime, Benjamin Franklin donated to the building fund of each and every church built in Philadelphia, and at one point, they were
building a new hall next to Independence Hall. He wrote the fundraising document, and he said, even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send
somebody here to preach Muhammadism to us, we should offer a pulpit and we should learn. On his deathbed, largest individual contributor to the Mikveh
Israel congregation, the first synagogue.
So, when he dies, all 35 ministers, preachers, and priests march on with the rabbi of the Jews to the grave with his casket. That's what they were
creating. That was the innovation they were creating back then, and we can't lose it now.
AMANPOUR: Walter Isaacson, thank you so much.
ISAACSON: Christiane, Thank you. Great to be with you again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Now, one of the things Ted Turner told us was to report all sides of the story. We take that responsibility very seriously indeed. And
we turn now to the West Bank and the targeting and detention of Palestinian journalists by Israeli forces.
[13:15:00]
The Committee to Protect Journalists says more than 100 journalists have been imprisoned in Israeli jails since October 7th. Some without trials or
even charges against them. Many recount beatings, abuse and even torture. The Israeli military denies all those claims.
Ali al-Samoudi is a Palestinian journalist who covers what the Israeli forces are doing to civilians in the occupied territories. After a year in
prison, he was freed last week and he tells Jeremy Diamond about the brutal conditions that he and Palestinian prisoners have been facing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man gingerly walking down the steps is Ali al-Samoudi, a well-known Palestinian
journalist.
DIAMOND: I've worked with Ali several times and I barely recognize him.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The 59-year-old has just been released from Israeli prison where he was held for a year without charge and without a trial.
DIAMOND: Ali, it's so good to see you.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The physical toll of his detention now on display.
This is what Samoudi looked like when I last worked with him, three months before he was arrested. He lost 130 pounds in prison, about half his body
weight.
ALI AL-SAMOUDI, JOURNALIST RELEASED FROM ISRAELI PRISON: They basically gave us food to keep us alive. Breakfast consists of one spoon of labneh, a
quarter of spoon of jam. For lunch, four spoons of rice, in addition to two slices of cucumber and one spoon of white beans without the red soup that
comes with it. As for dinner, it is a deluxe dinner for us, two spoons of hummus, one spoon of tahini, in addition to an egg.
DIAMOND (voice-over): It was only when he emerged from prison where mirrors were banned that he saw his face for the first time in a year.
AL-SAMOUDI (through translator): I felt something dreadful. My situation is difficult and I understand that but I did not imagine it to this extent.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Dozens of Palestinians have also emerged emaciated from Israeli prisons. Where Israel's Supreme Court ruled last September,
the state is failing to meet prisoners' basic nutritional needs.
DIAMOND: You had already interviewed, I'm sure, Palestinians who were held in Israeli prison, but what was it like to see it and experience it for
yourself?
AL-SAMOUDI (through translator): The reality was different. It was a real hell. Prison today is hell in every sense of the word. Every they practice
with us was punishment and revenge. One time after I returned from the visit with the lawyer, they threw us on the ground, on our faces and they
started hitting us. And Israeli officer stood and stepped on my head like this and pressed my face into the ground for four minutes until I
suffocated.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Israel's prison service did not respond to our request for comment about Samoudi's detention. Beatings brought added pain
for Samoudi, who was shot by Israeli troops in 2022 alongside Shireen Abu Akleh, the Palestinian-American journalist who was killed in the same
incident.
But it's what Samoudi witnessed that's most difficult to recount, like the young man in his cell who was refused medical treatment.
AL-SAMOUDI (through translator): He got sick at night, and we asked them to take him to the clinic, but they refused and left him until morning. In
the morning, we asked them to take him to the clinic, and after two hours, we took him out on a mattress to the yard. They didn't take him. He died in
front of us. For no reason. He did nothing. Why? Are we not human.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The young man is Loay Turkman, a 22-year-old from Jenin who was also held without charge. Israel's prison service didn't
respond to our request for comment.
Samoudi's first nights of freedom have been sleepless, spent worrying about those still imprisoned, including fellow journalists. Samoudi is among 105
Palestinian journalists who have been imprisoned by Israel since October 7, 2023, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists. 33 are still being
held in Israeli prisons, nearly all of them without charge. That pace of detentions landed Israel as the third-worst jailer of journalists worldwide
last year, behind only China and Myanmar.
[13:20:00]
When we asked the military at the beginning, when you were detained, we said, why? Why was Ali Samoudi, a journalist we've worked with, detained?
They said you were, quote, "identified with the Islamic Jihad terrorist organization and suspected of transferring funds to the group."
AL-SAMOUDI (through translator): Bullshit.
DIAMOND: Bullshit.
AL-SAMOUDI (through translator): They did not ask me once about any suspicions. My arrest is part of the Israeli war against the Palestinian
press and media. To silence my voice, to block my camera, to break my pen, and thus, prevent me from practicing my right that all law and
international norms guarantee the freedom of the press.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But isn't he afraid that speaking out could land him back in prison.
AL-SAMOUDI (through translator): Yes, yes. Correct. Certainly, I fear that they will arrest me and there is a possibility that they will arrest me.
DIAMOND (voice-over): But he says being a journalist is his life's mission, and he will keep reporting.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Janine, the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And just a note, it was a Palestinian photographer, Saher Al- Ghora, who recently won the Pulitzer Prize for his coverage of Gaza. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Now, for millions of people all over the world, he's known as the voice for nature. Spanning eight decades, Sir David Attenborough has
narrated and worked on more than a hundred natural history programs. He was the first to really bring nature's greatest wonders into living rooms all
over the world. Today, he's turning 100 years old.
When Sir David turned 90, he joined me in the studio in London to show and tell me about his fascinating adventures in pursuit of our natural world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Sir David Attenborough, welcome to our program.
DAVID ATTENBOROUGH, NATURALIST: Thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: You turned 90 this year and you are still going gang busters. What is the secret of your passion and you energy still today?
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, I think it helps to be interested in what you are doing. And, of course, an awful lot of people including me would actually
pay for what I'm doing to be truthful and so why stop?
And I'm -- but it's a lottery, isn't it? I mean, you know, I know a lot of people tougher than me or whatever, all sorts of things, but you can't do
it anymore. I mean, it's not their fault if they can't remember things -- well, I can't remember a lot of things. But, you know, not being able to
walk is pretty bad.
AMANPOUR: But you have so much energy. You are so active. What do you remember about how you first got fascinated in this world of wildlife?
ATTENBOROUGH: I think that every child born is interested in the world of wildlife. And by the age of four, they are still interested. I mean, I took
out and got to someone, he turned over a stone, he said -- oh, look, what a treasure, a slug. You know -- and of course, he's right. You know, what
were those funny things on the front floor? How can it eat? What does it feed on? How does it even move?
[13:25:00]
AMANPOUR: And people have come to know and love you in your programs because of the way you relate to the animals, and you never seem to lose
that world, that wow factor. What if, you could, would be your biggest wow factor in terms of the animals that you have met and frankly communicated
with?
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, I mean, you can't -- I can't communicate with a tiger, you know. I can't completely communicate with a jellyfish. We are primates.
And we can, but -- and we can communicate with other primates. There are other things, too. I mean we can communicate with dogs and we can
communicate with dolphins if you are clever enough.
AMANPOUR: Well, you say primates. And, of course, there is that classic footage of you with the gorillas, where you were doing a presentation to
camera and all of a sudden, the gorilla sort of took over. We are just going to play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATTENBOROUGH: This is how they spend the rest of their day, lounging on the ground, grooming one another. Sometimes, they even allow others to join
in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: It never gets old, Sir David. It never, ever gets old.
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, it couldn't have happened, of course, except for an amazing, amazing woman Dr. Dian Fossey who habituated those. So, they were
accustomed to it. Again, you know, I get all kinds of unjustified credit and reflected glory. People think how clever. Dian Fossey made that
possible, not me.
AMANPOUR: And you had this amazing moment also with a baby rhino, and literally you got on all fours and you started to make rhino noises, or try
to imitate the noises that the rhino was making. But, you know, you don't often see a grown man on all fours communicating at the animal's level.
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, naturally. I mean, yes, not terrifically clever to be on all fours. I mean, I would do it if you like.
AMANPOUR: I don't want you to do it. Let's listen for a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: I mean, it is amazing. And as you say, he had a cataract. He was living in a very dark world. Then he had an operation. But I just want to
fast forward now. Because those rhinos, plus the elephants are facing very, very serious peril to their existence. Some are facing extinction.
Do you ever worry after six decades of doing this, that, you know, this great planet, this great wildlife is in deeper danger than even the most
dedicated conservationist can prevent?
ATTENBOROUGH: Yes, I do. Of course, I do. The awful thing is that we know how to fix it, you know? It isn't magic. I mean, we know the steps that
could be taken. And we need to get the world's nations to agree to do it. That's the problem. It can be done.
AMANPOUR: Are you in any doubt about the manmade impact on the climate and we, as humans, have to change this.
ATTENBOROUGH: There is no doubt. There is no doubt that there's global warming. There can't be any doubt about that at all. The argument can be is
how far we are responsible, but even if we weren't responsible, we ought to be doing something to stop it. And we can. Again, we know what to do. We
should stop burning carbon. Simple as that. And, again, we could do it if we want to do it.
Just the slightest concentration by the technologically-advanced nations of the world to try and find a way of taking renewable resources from the sun,
and the wind, and the sea to replace carbon-based energy. It can be done. We got all the basic science. We need simply to refine the technology to
make it cheaper, than taking it from the ground.
AMANPOUR: And you are a believer that man, humankind, affects our climate and the global warming?
ATTENBOROUGH: Oh, yes. I don't have any doubt. And if you look at the graph from the Industrial Revolution, look at before Industrial Revolution
as to how much carbon dioxide there is in the air. And then, you suddenly see the graph climbing. And then you plot that against the
industrialization of mankind.
AMANPOUR: Let's go from this industrialized picture to the bird of paradise moment that you found when you are doing one of your programs
right here. I mean, again, we are going to show you speaking as the bird wants to get his words in edgeways as well.
[13:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATTENBOROUGH: Carl Linnaeus is the great crucifier of the natural world. When he came to allocate a scientific name to this bird, called it
Paradisaea Apoda. The bird of paradise without legs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Well, you finally got it out, what you were trying to say, but - -
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, that bird was bred in captivities. So, it knew human voices. And I'm sure it was reacting to me as though it was being caught in
some kind of way.
AMANPOUR: What do you feel in terms of, you know, contact, in terms of emotion when you have an incident and a moment like that, whether it's the
bird of paradise, whether it's communing with the rhino or the gorillas?
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, of course, it is -- it takes you out of the human condition if I can put it that way. I remember one occasion, in a very
remote part of North Australia. And I never forget it, it's just one of those odd instances, but the sun came up and there was this billabong, this
lagoon in front of me, full of the most fabulous birds, egrets, and crocodiles, and duck, and geese that's on, and they're all busy doing their
business and they didn't know you were there, you know,
And then, suddenly, the camera moved and of course, it turned to the light. And then the whole lot took off. But before their next paradise, you know?
Before humanity entered, that was how nature is originally once was. And that's a moment of revelation, of recognition, of something beyond us, you
know?
AMANPOUR: You also have explored other human tribes. The famous Biami tribe. Am I saying that right? What were you looking for then? Why were you
going off to people, not animals?
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, you know, it is a remarkable thing. Surprisingly, how eloquent you can be. Somebody who doesn't know a single word of your
language, or indeed haven't met your kind before. But he -- I would know that he was aggressive or feeling aggressive. You know, you would know by
the way he moves his eyebrows. And by the way he (INAUDIBLE). So -- and he knew I was not aggressive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATTENBOROUGH: Now, they seem sufficiently confident for me to look at their personal ornaments, and perhaps in the process, he's got a few Biami
words.
In his ear, he had what I recognize is a Casari (ph) quill bent into a ring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ATTENBOROUGH: And the interesting thing is that one of the ways that you tell in Papua New Guinea, the relationships of people is the way they count
the gestures. They use to count them. They are different from different groups. So, one, two, three, four, five, that's easy. Unless it goes, one,
two, three, four, five. But it's certainly one, two, three, four, five. What do you do with that and what's six? In his line, it was six, seven,
eight.
AMANPOUR: You are kidding?
ATTENBOROUGH: No, no.
AMANPOUR: How did you get into this business? In other words, you know, there you were loving your fossils, you were working at the BBC and radio,
but how did you get to be a presenter? Was that sort of a pre-ordain journey?
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, I mean, it's a showbiz thing. I mean, you know, somebody falls down and I got a chance. I first went to Africa with a
lovely man called Jack Lester. He was a curator of reptiles in London Zoo. He was there to collect reptiles. And I thought it was a good idea to make
a program about how a zoo man does that.
Technically, he got very ill of his program. And because there was a live ingredient in it, the program was going to come on next week. Come the
director of television, BBC set it up and you were there now, the person is not, so you do it. So, I did.
AMANPOUR: I did actually read an anecdote that it wasn't actually such a smooth ride. One of your first attempts at broadcasting was sort of mix.
And looking at that picture now, I'm going to point out to it, because they said, no, we don't want Attenborough back again because he got way too big
front teeth.
ATTENBOROUGH: That's true. And the man who produced that program, that very first interview when I was used as an interviewer, he retired. And
there he was, (INAUDIBLE). Attenborough is an intelligent young man, but he should not be used as an interviewer because his teeth are too big.
AMANPOUR: Well, you certainly had the last laugh on that one.
ATTENBOROUGH: Yes.
AMANPOUR: But, you know, it is extraordinary because most people know of you, you know hundreds and millions of people all over the world for more
than six decades, have been watching you in the field with all of these animals bringing us the wildlife. But you were control. You were the man in
charge before all of that at BBC, too. You brought Monty Python, flying circus to television. I mean, that's pretty amazing in itself.
[13:35:00]
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, I joined BBC when television was very small, not (INAUDIBLE). And I was a producer for 10 to 15 years. And then the BBC got
a new network, opportunity and they wanted a new controller and they asked me to do it. And I did it. I thought -- you know, I can't go on trotting
around the world, I thought. So, I got this job. And I then I was on that for four years. And then I became responsible for both networks, which has
won the entire Monty Python was done. And that was OK.
But then I spent eight years sitting behind the desk, and OK, you know, the kids are educated, played the -- you played the grand piano, what are you
doing? You know, there is Patrick O'Neill (ph). You've never been to Patrick O'Neill (ph).
AMANPOUR: I hear you. I know how you feel. Patagonia and also under water. I mean, you did something. I think you were not quite 90 yet, but you were
getting up to 90 and you got into this unbelievable submersible and went down to the barrier reef, to the seabed.
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, that's a double. We're just getting into a thing, we're just doing the thing down and down we go.
AMANPOUR: Was it scary? Claustrophobic?
ATTENBOROUGH: Not at all. Not at all.
AMANPOUR: Otherworldly?
ATTENBOROUGH: No, because you got a re-breather. Say you are changing -- I mean, I had been in other submersible. There I am there. But you see, I'm
just sitting in an armchair, watching television.
AMANPOUR: And there's a wonderful big, giant reef turtle. Yes, It is better than television.
ATTENBOROUGH: It is a huge privilege, of course. You know, fantastic. But because, I have done in submersibles earlier, where suddenly you have to
worry about every breathe, you know, getting hot and so on, but there, it was just fantastic privilege.
AMANPOUR: You've been on the sea, you've been in the jungles and the deserts and all over the place, even under the sea. You also experienced
zero gravity. You haven't been to space, but you have done that simulation. And the images are really amazing. You just looked as if you were having
the best time of your life. Tell me about it.
ATTENBOROUGH: Well, that was just how you train astronauts, which is, you know, if you go up like that, you're only -- you'll swing. You'll suddenly
feel the feeling in your stomach. So, you are lifting off from your seat. And it was breathtakingly exciting. And the first time it happened, you
thought, this is wonderful. And then because we are doing it again, the second (INAUDIBLE). And then the third time. And that was about five times.
Well, I probably had enough of this now. And they said, well, I'm sorry but we got to do 35, because we are doing a testing of actual drug to sea
sickness. And so, we have to go through it. And so, after 35 times, I thought that was enough.
AMANPOUR: That's enough. What does space say to you, the last frontier, in terms of our environment, our universe? Would you like to have explored
that, too?
ATTENBOROUGH: Not really. Not really. Well, there's no animals there and no flowers there.
AMANPOUR: Are we sure?
ATTENBOROUGH: Yes, absolutely sure. Do you think there is an orchid up there on Venus? There might be an ocular on a different Venus, but it's not
on that Venus.
AMANPOUR: Any regrets?
ATTENBOROUGH: No. It sounds terrible, doesn't it? I'm tempted to say, yes. I spent the time behind the desk, but that was rewarding in its way. I just
thought I didn't do it the whole of my life.
AMANPOUR: All right. We'll be following you on your trips.
ATTENBOROUGH: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Sir David Attenborough, thank you very much, indeed.
ATTENBOROUGH: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Now, one of our founder Ted Turner's greatest endeavors was protecting the environment. He became the biggest private American
landowner in order not to develop but to conserve that land forever. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:40:00]
AMANPOUR: Now, we turn to a project that's celebrating the life-changing lessons we learned from our mothers. What I learned from mom is a new book
by Sherrie Rollins Westin. She is the CEO of Sesame Workshop, which produces the beloved children's TV show, Sesame Street. And she asked some
of America's best known success stories, how their childhoods and relationships with their mothers made them into who they are today. And she
tells Hari Sreenivasan, it's a shout out to the unique influence of mothers everywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARI SREENIVASAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, thanks. Sherrie Westin, thanks so much for joining us. You and your co-author, Jeff
Dunn, compiled a book of essays, "What I Learned from Mom." And you got to speak to some amazing people, amazing moms. You heard stories about how
their moms have affected their lives. 27 different contributors here. Everybody from Robin Roberts to Governor Westmore. I'm looking at Diane von
Furstenberg.
And I guess when you started hearing and seeing these stories, was there a parallel? Were there similarities that started to leap out to you given how
wide the range of people that you were speaking with?
SHERRIE ROLLINS WESTIN, CO-AUTHOR, "WHAT I LEARNED FROM MOM" AND PRESIDENT AND CEO, SESAME WORKSHOP: Well, first of all, thank you so much for having
me. But yes, I mean, there were sort of certain common themes, but I think one of the things I love most about the book is how different they are.
So, you know, each story is really unique and some surprise you, some are rather humorous. They're all moving. And, you know, when I think of some of
the similarities, I do think of gratitude that comes out a lot in terms of not just those we interview being grateful for their mothers, but the fact
that their mothers sort of exemplified gratitude.
And I love that, you know, there are other real sort of themes along resilience, putting things in perspective, you know, that these things are
not going to be that big a deal. There are some wonderful stories. But I think that what's most interesting is it's not so much, if we were
interviewing the moms, I don't think they necessarily would have had the same examples because it's not so much what my mom taught me or what was
the best advice my mother gave me.
It's what I learned from my mother. And so, often it was just these incredible examples or things that, you know, that our individuals noticed
and it had a real impact on them.
SREENIVASAN: I'm thinking about just this 20,000-foot view perhaps, but the idea of motherhood or the CEO of the household in itself has been kind
of overlooked in society. And Katie Couric kind of mentions that, that she was, what was it, trying to talk to somebody about an obituary for her
mother.
WESTIN: And her mother said, what was her job? And because her mother hadn't had a career in terms of a title, they didn't want to write the
obituary.
SREENIVASAN: I mean, and that's, you know, it's just --
WESTIN: And Katie's mother was amazing. And when you listen to Katie's stories, you know, just how important it was. I think Katie always says
it's so important to have a cheerleader. Her mother was always her cheerleader and to have such incredible unconditional love. I think that's
another theme that comes through kindness.
You know, Noah Kahan said that his mother said to him, you don't have to like everybody, but you do have to be kind to everyone. There's just a lot
of wonderful takeaways around just the examples that mother set. I love the story that Tea Leoni tells where her mother sort of, when a bully was
beating them up in the front yard, her mother ran out with, I think, a shoe and then marched over to the boys' home to knock on the door and his father
slammed the door in her face. OK.
But fast forward, and Tea notices that her mother is constantly finding that young boy and sitting with him and reading to him and talking to him.
And it dawns on her how much empathy her mother has and that she saw, you know, when that door was slammed in her face, probably why that boy was
struggling. You know, so it's wonderful examples that are just very moving. And there's a lot of humor too.
SREENIVASAN: Right now, in the past couple of decades, we've had this idea of kind of helicopter parenting or creating almost this bubble around your
children.
[13:45:00]
And what struck me is throughout this, the conversations that you had, there were several examples of, you know, making people stronger and
resilient through the adversity and not trying to really shelter them, but saying, hey, this is our reality. One that comes to mind is Governor Wes
Moore's mom too.
WESTIN: Also, the sacrifices that mothers have made. You know, Wes -- Governor Moore, sorry, has a wonderful line where he says that she wore
sweaters so we could wear coats. I think that what I love about it is you could dip in and you could just read people that you, you know, you may be
a big Ken Burns fan or Henry Louis Gates, or you may read it cover to cover.
And again, it's -- I owe Jeff Dunn the credit. He's a former CEO of Sesame. As you mentioned, he's the co-author. And it really was his idea because he
felt like if his mother had born -- been born in a different time, she would have been the CEO. And that he was just a work in progress for her.
And, you know, it was his idea to see if other people had these similar stories of the big sort of impact that their mothers had on their lives.
SREENIVASAN: You have this story with Ken Burns, who really kind of shares this moment about his mom's passing, and ends up really giving you a
glimpse into what he's been doing his whole professional life.
WESTIN: Well, I think that's a fascinating chapter because he literally says that it dawned on him. His mother died when he was only 11 years old.
And he said, you know, every year when he blew out that birthday candle, he was wishing for his mom to be back.
So, someone pointed out to him, isn't it interesting that your entire career is bringing people back to life? It's bringing them, you know, when
you look at, you know, Abraham Lincoln or Louis Armstrong, Jackie Robinson, it's waking the dead. And he said, this is really the impact my mother had
on me.
SREENIVASAN: You and Jeff Dunn kind of take your own personal journeys through this. You mentioned how Jeff came up with this idea, but I also
wonder, you know, you've said that you kind of thought you were more like your dad before starting this project. And I wonder what it is that you
learned about yourself and what you learned from your mom.
WESTIN: Well, it is true. I remember when Jeff said, you know, we need a chapter on your mom. And I said, well, you know, I'm really more like my
father. And he said, well, I'll interview you. So, Jeff interviewed me just as we had interviewed all of the other participants. And he kept saying, I
don't know, Sherrie, I think the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
And it was really lovely because in a way, I'm not saying it was an epiphany, but it was, I did develop much more of an appreciation for how
much I have gotten from my mom, how much I am like her, you know, in both good and bad, but I say with love.
But also, I just think I appreciate how much more of an impact she had on my life and where I am. And I had really realized she's stubborn, but that
has, you know, served me well in my work. And she, but she also, when I really thought about it, because he was asking about my childhood, my
mother was everybody's favorite mom.
I mean, every kid in the neighborhood was at our house. And if we were in the top of the apple trees, she was in the top of the apple trees, which
was quite young when she had me. But I realized, you know, how much she loved being a mom I can so identify with. I wasn't in the top of the trees
with my children, but I've really loved, you know, creating those same traditions. And especially when my children were little.
SREENIVASAN: What's interesting to me also is now, here we are kind of having this conversation in the context of Mother's Day. And I had to look
this history up a little bit, but back in 1870, the author of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is the person kind of credited with Mother's Day. And
at that time, it was really more of a pacifist call. She wanted women around the world to, you know, basically stand up for peace and not have
their sons go out to war.
And now, it's kind of like Mother's Day is kind of a commercial shopping event. And it just seems to have, I don't know, just taken a totally
different turn than how we think about mothers and society and kind of the reverence that we give.
WESTIN: Well, I think that's one of the things that makes this book so special. And of course, I do believe it would be a great Mother's Day gift.
But the fact that it is these celebrations and really thoughtful essays about each mom and the impact they had. And it doesn't matter whether, to
the point you made earlier, whether there's a career or a title, it's the lasting sort of relationship and impressions that a mother has on their
children.
And when I bring it back to Sesame, you know, all of the author proceeds we are giving to Sesame Workshop to support our mission, driven work. Most
people love Sesame Street, but don't always know that we're a nonprofit and need a support. So, that was an opportunity.
[13:50:00]
But also, we know at Sesame how important the early years are and how important the engagement with a caring adult is, which is often, that first
engagement is often mom. And one of the stories, we dedicated the book to Joan Ganz Cooney, who is the creator of Sesame Street. We like to think of
her as the mother of Sesame Street. And, you know, when she was creating Sesame Street all those years ago, 1969, she said she had a hunch that the
learning would be deeper if a parent were watching with a child. And that's why there were Muppets and celebrities and musicians and humor.
And you fast forward, and I think that's one of the reasons Sesame is so relevant today, that of all ages and so impactful because so much of what
we do is creating content that is a catalyst for engagement between a parent and child, a caregiver and child. So, I think it's wonderful to
dedicate it to her. She's such a visionary.
SREENIVASAN: We should note that the Peter G. Peterson and Joan Ganz Cooney Fund are underwriters of this program. So, much of the work that
Sesame does is grounded in research, it's in developmental psychology, it's about early learning science. What does the science say about really just
the importance of moms in a child's development?
WESTIN: Well, there's nothing more important in the first five years of life than the nurturing care. That would be the development term. That is
engagement with a caring adult, a mom, a parent, a grandparent, a caregiver. And, you know, when I say that the prescience of Joan to focus
on the early years, 56 years ago, and engagement with an adult, when you fast forward, today we have all of the research, the neuroscience that
proves in fact that the way a child learns is that serve and return between an adult, between a caring adult and a child. And that's how their synapses
are formed and their brain develops faster in those first five years of life than any other time.
So, there is nothing more important in a young child's life than having that engagement with a caring adult. And this book is such a tribute to,
you know, those incredibly caring adults, our moms.
SREENIVASAN: This is also a time where people are becoming a little bit more open with the difficult relationships that they might have with their
moms or their parents. There are more women choosing not to have children, sometimes by choice, sometimes by circumstance, right? And I guess, how do
you talk about this work to all these different people who are kind of in a different space for that traditional definition that we say as mothers, the
image that gets conjured?
WESTIN: Listen, it's very interesting because, you know, I won't say who, but there were some people we asked to be a part of the book who said, you
know, I love Sesame, I'd love to help, but I just don't have the relationship with my mother that would lend itself to this book. And I
appreciate that and understand that. And I don't think it means that those individuals are any less successful. I'm sure they had another caring adult
in their life with a really strong relationship.
And, you know, I did a book event recently and someone raised their hand at the end and they said, thank you for doing this book. I lost my mother a
year ago. And she said, this book helped me reflect on the things that I loved about my mother throughout her lifetime. Because so often when a
parent is struggling or, you know, as we age, it's not quite the same relationship you had earlier.
SREENIVASAN: Sure.
WESTIN: Or -- and she was saying my mother was difficult in the end, you know, through no fault of her own, through her health, through dementia,
through all the things that we deal with as we get to a certain age with our, with, you know, as our parents age. And to reflect, she said, the
thought of it really made me stop and reflect on not the last few years, but my mother as a person and growing up. And I think that's very powerful.
SREENIVASAN: About a year ago, Sesame had, I think it was Andrew Garfield on to discuss grief and healing after losing a parent. And obviously that
was a conscious decision by the program and you're trying to teach children how to navigate these difficult topics. I mean, it's what you've done
literally the entire time of the program. How important is it that children are exposed to these kinds of conversations, these kinds of, you know,
ideas at a young age? I mean, frankly, because the parents who are watching along with their children benefit from this too.
WESTIN: Well, I think it's critical. And, you know, we often make the mistake, we think of issues as adult issues, mental health, addiction, but
parental addiction really impacts young children. And we often think, well, they're too young, we want to shelter them. When in fact, that's the
opposite of what we should do. It's so important to talk to children, to respect them, to help them work through these issues in an age-appropriate
way.
[13:55:00]
And I think one of the things that Sesame does so well is we give resources to parents how to tackle tough issues. We've just launched new resources
around emotional wellbeing. Because again, mental health issues are not just adult issues. But to help parents know what is the right way to raise
issues with their children, giving them incredible content, storybooks, videos that help model that in terms of the Muppets.
And then something like you mentioned with Andrew Garfield is a wonderful bit that we were able to share on social media. With Elmo, I cannot tell
you the response from all ages on how powerful that is.
SREENIVASAN: The book is called "What I Learned from Mom," co-author Sherrie Rollins Westin, who also happens to be the president and CEO of the
Sesame Workshop, thank you so much for your time and for writing the book.
WESTIN: Well, thank you so much for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ' AMANPOUR: That's it for now. Thank you for watching, and goodbye from London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:00]
END
