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Interview with NPR Immigration Correspondent Jasmine Garsd; Interview with American Immigration Council Senior Fellow Aaron Reichlin- Melnick; Interview with Revolution Medicines CEO Dr. Mark Goldsmith. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired June 04, 2026 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a result of U.S.-led negotiations, Israel and Lebanon agreed to the implementation of a ceasefire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: But without the backing of Hezbollah, can peace come to Lebanon? Isobel Yeung offers a rare glimpse into the militant group in a
special report.
ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You've seen a lot of fighters die. How does that make you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This makes us proud. I envy them because they are martyred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: We'll never be defeated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: -- protesters and officials demand action amid concerns about conditions inside an ICE facility. I speak to NPR correspondent Jasmine
Garsd and Aaron Reichlin-Melnick from the American Immigration Council.
Also, ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MARK GOLDSMITH, CEO, REVOLUTION MEDICINES: It's possible through bold innovation and scientific risk-taking to revolutionize the treatment for
patients living with these common and often difficult-to-treat cancers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: -- a medical breakthrough that could change the lives of millions. How an experimental pill is offering new hope against the world's
deadliest cancer. CEO of the company behind it, Dr. Mark Goldsmith, joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss the long journey that led to this moment.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York sitting in for Christiane Amanpour.
A step forward for diplomacy followed by an immediate step back. Just hours after Israel and Lebanon agreed to a U.S.-brokered ceasefire, the leaders
of Hezbollah said that they reject the deal.
The terms included a complete cessation of Hezbollah fire and the removal of their operatives from southern Lebanon. But the Iran-backed militant
group insists that any truce must also require the end of Israel's offensive and the withdrawal of their forces. So, for now, the fighting
goes on, casting fresh doubt over whether this latest diplomatic push can produce any real progress.
It is the fourth ceasefire announcement in just seven weeks, and the U.S. seeks to clear a major hurdle on the path to a broader agreement to end the
war with Iran. And for President Trump, the pressure is on after the House of Representatives backed a resolution to rein in his war powers in Iran.
So, what will get -- what will it take to get Hezbollah on board? For more than four decades, the group has faced repeated attempts to weaken its
power, yet it remains a potent force in the region. Correspondent Isobel Yeung gained rare access inside Lebanon to find out why. Here's her report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, we're here in the Beqaa Valley, where Hezbollah still have a very tight grip on control. After months of trying,
we have managed to persuade a man who we believe is an arms dealer providing these weapons to Hezbollah to meet with us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Follow him. Follow.
YEUNG: That's the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
YEUNG: It seems to be just off this road. So, we're now just going off the dirt track. I can see a building just over here has been struck by an
airstrike. Let's put the cameras down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think this is the house?
YEUNG: Yes.
YEUNG (voice-over): We were asked to put our cameras down and not to reveal this location or the identity of this arms dealer, who says he's a
target for the Israeli military as they try to stop the flow of weapons entering Lebanon.
YEUNG: What is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is a grenade launcher.
YEUNG: It's quite a lot of weapons you have here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, Kalashnikov, RPGs, projectiles, machine guns.
YEUNG: Who is it you're selling these weapons to?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We sell to whoever wants to buy weapons. I cannot give names.
YEUNG: I mean, if you're selling to people in the Beqaa Valley, I mean, could be working for Hezbollah, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is possible they are taking them to Hezbollah. But I don't know. I just sell the weapon, and they do
whatever they want with it.
YEUNG: You think that these weapons are needed to defend themselves against Israel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They shouldn't invade Lebanon. They crossed into Lebanon. They are causing destruction and killing
families.
[13:05:00]
YEUNG: And it never keeps you up at night that these weapons are obviously used to kill people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Why should I be concerned?
YEUNG: I mean, there is obviously a war going on in this country right now. You're not worried that these weapons are helping to fuel that war?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I am far away. Let people do whatever they want with these weapons.
YEUNG (voice-over): Driving much of the demand for weapons is Hezbollah, the Iran-backed militant group designated a terrorist organization by the
U.S., U.K., Canada, and others.
Hezbollah is an incredibly secretive group, but we wanted to understand how they're still standing and what they're fighting for. After months of
working with contacts on the ground, we gained exclusive access to key parts of the group and to those most affected by the war.
Hezbollah struck Israel in solidarity with the Hamas October 7 attack, triggering a massive Israeli bombardment across Lebanon, even since the
November 2024 cease-fire, accusing Hezbollah of failing to withdraw from the border areas.
In March, Hezbollah fired rockets on Israel after Israel and the U.S. attacked Iran. This sparked a large-scale ground invasion, displacing over
a million people and killing more than 3,000, according to the Lebanese government.
Hezbollah's fight could be existential. Under pressure from the U.S., the Lebanese government has been trying to disarm the group. But Israel's
offensive has given Hezbollah new zeal, and it has vowed to fight on, despite heavy losses.
YEUNG: Thanks.
MOHAMAD ALI HAIDAR HASSAN, COUSIN OF HEZBOLLAH FIGHTER: This is my friend. His name is Sam Mortado (ph). It's 2007. This is his sister, and this is
his sister. This is his grandfather, and this is mother.
YEUNG: You know, a lot of people who have died in here?
HASSAN: Yes. I know my -- another friend, Azer.
YEUNG: When did he die?
HASSAN: From three years, I think.
YEUNG: OK.
HASSAN: Andav Jenob (ph).
YEUNG: Was he a fighter?
HASSAN: Yes, he's a fighter.
YEUNG (voice-over): Mohamad (ph) from the Beqaa Valley says he's not a member of Hezbollah, but he and many others here see the group as their
best protection from Israeli aggression.
YEUNG: This was your cousin?
HASSAN: Yes.
YEUNG: And he was fighting for Hezbollah?
HASSAN: Yes. Yes. But Hezbollah defends us and defends of -- Lebanon.
YEUNG: Does everyone here support Hezbollah?
HASAN (through translator): We all support Hezbollah. Their blood won't go wasted, God willing.
YEUNG (voice-over): Perhaps Hezbollah's greatest strength are the thousands of fighters willing to sacrifice their lives for the group. They
rarely give interviews to Western media.
YEUNG: We have managed to secure a meeting with a member of Hezbollah who's been fighting in the south of Lebanon for the last few months, and
he's agreed to meet us in a very remote location, which we're heading towards right now.
Why did you join Hezbollah?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): First, no family was spared Israeli attacks. Civilians are being killed. They want to take our land.
They have a plan to occupy our land to achieve their goal.
YEUNG: You have seen a lot of fighters die. How does that make you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This makes us proud. I envy them because they are martyred. Martyrdom is something we are proud of. We die
defending our homeland.
YEUNG: Do you think that firing towards Israel and Israeli troops is going to create a safer Lebanon? I mean, surely, that puts Lebanese people at
more risk, knowing that what -- the Israelis will hit back with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, we are not responsible for this. We will never give up our land. In the end, we either get martyred or
get victorious.
YEUNG: But I guess it doesn't feel like that to a lot of people. It feels like Hezbollah is triggering and creating more war, rather than peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If it wasn't for Hezbollah, there would be no peace in Lebanon.
YEUNG (voice-over): Not everyone agrees. Recent polls suggest that, while most Lebanese view Israel as an enemy, even more are critical of Iranian
involvement in Lebanon.
Among those forced to flee their home is Mona Jahamy, a Shia Muslim schoolteacher from the southern City of Tyre.
YEUNG: So many displaced people across the whole of Lebanon. It's crazy.
[13:10:00]
MONA JAHAMY, HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER DISPLACED FROM SOUTHERN LEBANON: It's the most miserable displacement ever that happened in Lebanon.
YEUNG: Is this an Israeli drone overhead?
JAHAMY: I can't see it, but we hear it.
YEUNG: You can hear it.
JAHAMY: We could have been better without getting involved in this war. What the hell did we have to do, put ourselves in the middle of hell?
In 2024, my house was almost devastated. It took me a year to reconstruct it, to redo everything. I haven't even took a deep breath, then another
war. This is too much. This is too much for the people of Lebanon.
YEUNG: Israel are the ones who have displaced people, destroyed entire neighborhoods, killed thousands of people.
JAHAMY: We know that Israel is a very hostile and aggressive country, and it is highly and technologically armed. Nobody has doubts about this. Take
this example. There is a ferocious lion. I tell you, keep your hand away from the lion. He might bite you. He will bite you, OK? But you keep on
teasing him. So, he bites you. And more than that, you release the lion against everyone around you, OK? This is what Hezbollah has done. Let the
lion stay in its place.
YEUNG: Well, what is your message to the Hezbollah leaders?
JAHAMY: Let us live in peace. If you want to fight for Iran, go to Iran, but let us live in peace.
YEUNG (voice-over): Lebanon's government has tried to contain Hezbollah and to stop it from attacking Israel, but its ability to do that is
limited. Many fear that a direct confrontation with Hezbollah risks igniting sectarian strife and even civil war.
NAWAF SALAM, LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We're not seeking a confrontation with Hezbollah. On the contrary, I'd prefer to
avoid a confrontation with Hezbollah. But, believe me, we won't be intimidated.
YEUNG (voice-over): For decades, Hezbollah has stepped in where the state has failed, providing health care, social services, security. Hezbollah
officials like Ibrahim Moussawi even hold seats in Parliament.
YEUNG: The U.S. and Israel want Hezbollah disarmed. The Lebanese government itself also wants Hezbollah disarmed. What would happen if the
Lebanese government, the Lebanese military tried to do that?
IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI, LEBANESE PARLIAMENT MEMBER: This will not happen, I can assure you. We want our army to defend our country. Your army is not strong
enough.
YEUNG (voice-over): Hezbollah decided to enter this war on March the 2nd. You knew before starting this war that the Israeli response would be huge,
that thousands of people were likely to die, which they have. What made you decide that that level of human suffering, which we have witnessed over the
last few months, was worth it?
MOUSSAWI: I don't want to go into the philosophy of life and death here. The Israelis continue to carry aggression, so there was one point when we
have to respond to all of these aggressions. When the Israeli-American war -- again, they started the war against Iran. We felt this is a proper
window to respond.
YEUNG: Hezbollah strikes have killed several people in Israel. They have caused some civilian harm. They have also been targeting some civilian
areas. The -- that has triggered a huge Israeli response, and we have seen thousands of Lebanese people killed. We have seen over a million people
displaced.
MOUSSAWI: You know why is this happening?
YEUNG: Do you take any responsibility?
MOUSSAWI: Do you know why --
YEUNG: I'm going to ask you. Let me ask. Let me ask. Do you do take any responsibility at all for your actions on March the 2nd triggering this
mass human suffering?
MOUSSAWI: Do you take any responsibility? Does your government take any responsibility? Does the American government take any responsibility for
unleashing the Israeli full, mighty power of killing and making genocide? Do they do this? We're defending ourselves.
YEUNG: I'm asking you about your role in this conflict.
MOUSSAWI: I'm asking you about right of resistance.
YEUNG: But you acted. You acted on March the 2nd. I'm asking if your actions on March the 2nd bear any responsibility for thousands of people
killed, including hundreds of children?
MOUSSAWI: Absolutely not. The International Community bears the responsibility. America bears the responsibility. When Trump is capable to
restrain the Israelis, the criminals, I believe the American administration hold the first and exclusively responsibility for all of the killings that
happened.
YEUNG: But apart from appeasing Iran, what else has this war actually achieved? There has been a huge amount of mass human suffering.
MOUSSAWI: You're using the same equation, but in journalistic terms, that the Israelis are doing. What the Israelis are doing? Simply, they -- if you
carry an operation or if you defend yourself against their incursion into a certain village, they will destroy the village. To tell you what?
[13:15:00]
Never think to defend yourself again. Never think to stand up for the Israeli mighty force. I want to break this cycle.
YEUNG: What would you say to the parents of the hundreds of kids who have died? What did they die for?
MOUSSAWI: I believe, this question, you should say to Donald Trump and to Benjamin Netanyahu. We are defending our people. Go back to the people who
are in the funerals and ask them. You're in Lebanon now. And you can see.
YEUNG (voice-over): Since March, around 200 children have been killed in Lebanon.
YEUNG: Just absolutely heartbreaking. These are body after body after body, tiny little bodies. These ones happen to be carried on the bed
because there's just only parts and remnants and pieces of them left.
YEUNG (voice-over): In just one strike in March, five children were killed, 6-year-Old Yasmina, 9-year-old Malika, 11-year-old Sadiq, 12-year-
old Zahra, and 13-year-old Zainab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Were there any Hezbollah martyrs? We're a family. The people of the south do not bow down, not to Israel, not
to America.
YEUNG: These kids obviously have been out of school since the beginning of the war, and this group now is trying to do some activities with them, try
to have some semblance of normalcy in their lives, which have obviously been completely disrupted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): While we were eating, they started bombing. So, I got scared. I'm scared one of us will be killed.
YEUNG (voice-over): As the Trump administration tries to rein in both sides, the people of Lebanon are trapped between a die-hard militant force
backed by a newly emboldened Iran and the Israeli military waging a brutal war.
YEUNG: What would you say to the people who have power over this war right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): God didn't create you to do this to us. Children can't continue their education or do anything. You have
ruined our lives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: With no ceasefire in sight now, it's ordinary Lebanese citizens who are paying the highest price. So, what will it take to bring the
fighting to an end and is there anything the Lebanese government can do to rein in Hezbollah's grip on power?
Let's bring back in Isobel Yeung, joining the show from London. First of all, just such an important and moving piece there, Isobel. Thank you so
much for all the work that you did and for taking the time to speak with so many there on the ground, those who are fighting for Hezbollah, those who
are caught in the middle of it all and, of course, the youngest victims, obviously, the children.
This is, as we noted, the fourth ceasefire that's being discussed now in some seven weeks' time. I'm just wondering, given all of your time there
speaking with those civilians and those Hezbollah members, is there a sense that this time could be a final deal?
YEUNG (on camera): I mean, I think it's extremely difficult. You know, this is the third time just in the last couple of years that we've seen an
attempted deal between these two countries back in 2024, earlier this year, and, of course, now. I mean, obviously, the sticking point here is
Hezbollah.
I mean, we have seen that for this deal to actually happen and for a ceasefire to actually be implemented, both sides would obviously have to
stop firing at each other. Hezbollah would have to withdraw from certain areas of the south and they'd also have to give up their arms.
And, you know, as you saw, we spoke to various members of Hezbollah throughout our time in Lebanon, and they are absolutely adamant that that
cannot happen and that they will not be dictated to by the U.S. And you've got to remember that, you know, Hezbollah's very justification for existing
is to defend Lebanon, and they see themselves as the protectors of Lebanese people. And, you know, as we've seen the Israeli military occupy southern
Lebanon since March, it's very, very difficult to imagine Hezbollah actually laying down their arms whilst Israeli troops remain in their
country.
GOLODRYGA: Hezbollah, as an organization, is deemed by most Western countries as a terrorist organization. It is deeply ingrained in Lebanon,
in society there, and its political system as well.
[13:20:00]
And as you note, per polling, it does seem that something has changed, the tide has turned, especially with Lebanon's -- with Hezbollah's decision to
enter this war now between Israel, the United States, and Iran. It was fascinating to hear that school teacher tell you that if these fighters
want to go fight for Iran, they should go to Iran. Does that give, in your view, the Lebanese government more power, more opportunity to stand up to
Hezbollah as they've been claiming they have a mandate to do now, to de- weapon, to make sure that they de-arm, and to sign potential ceasefire deals with Israel?
YEUNG: I mean, it's difficult to know. Obviously, we have seen Hezbollah take a real battering over the last few years in 2024. And again,
obviously, this year, you know, the Israeli military have gone after Hezbollah key infrastructure. They've, as you saw in our piece, they killed
many fighters. They've also gone after key commanders. In fact, we were supposed to meet with one of them, but Hezbollah was so concerned that the
Israelis would find out the location of some of their few remaining commanders that we weren't able to.
But, you know, Hezbollah still does have several strengths. You know, they have access to these weapons. We know that they still have a stockpile of
weapons. We know that they are still smuggling weapons over those borders, and that they are using and manufacturing, you know, drones, fiber optic
drones. They've been quite effectively, to the surprise of some in Israel, targeting the Israeli military with.
You know, domestically, as you said, that we have seen polls that suggest that, you know, the popularity of Hezbollah is questionable. But I would
say that, you know, as this war has dragged on, you know, it started out that many people were very resentful of Hezbollah. But experts that we've
spoken to would suggest that, you know, Hezbollah is now starting to and has successfully started to reposition themselves again as the defenders of
Lebanon.
GOLODRYGA: And that makes things more challenging, not only in terms of a ceasefire, but for the Lebanese government itself. Isobel Yeung, thank you
so much. Really appreciate your reporting.
And stay with CNN. We'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Next, held without conviction, fed maggot infested meals with limited access to medical care and no idea when they will be freed.
According to many of the 60,000 people currently held in immigration detention across America, this is the reality of daily life. Some are as
young as five years old. That's why hundreds of detainees at Delaney Hall Detention Center in New Jersey have reportedly been on hunger strike.
Outside the facility, protests escalated into clashes with ICE officers using tear gas to get tear gas against demonstrators refusing to disperse.
Now, Senate Republicans are pushing ahead with a package that would provide billions of dollars in new funding for immigration enforcement.
For more on this, I'm joined by Jasmine Garsd, immigration correspondent for NPR, and Aaron Reichlin-Melnick, senior fellow at the American
Immigration Council. Welcome, both of you.
Jasmine, what do we actually know about the conditions now at Delaney Hall?
JASMINE GARSD, IMMIGRATION CORRESPONDENT, NPR: I mean, what I can tell you about is what I've been hearing, which is insufficient medical attention,
food not only -- it's not enough to say in bad state.
[13:25:00]
I mean, we've heard reports of food with maggots in it. And again, lack of attention to medical conditions. And I should be clear, you know, I've been
reporting on conditions in ICE detention since Trump took office. This is nothing new. This is pretty much what I've been hearing from different
detention centers. You know, and I've been hearing it from children as young as five years old.
And so, I would venture to say that it is more often than not that I hear about these pretty horrific conditions while in ICE detention.
GOLODRYGA: And what are conditions like outside of the facility? We've been reporting on a number of protests that continue to escalate. Newark
police were confronting protesters this week. Last night, two protesters were taken into custody. How much concern is there that outside of this
detention center, things could turn even more chaotic?
GARSD: Well, I mean, I think there's been a lot of criticism over, you know, the decision to send the state police and, you know, whether or not
this could turn into Minneapolis 2.0. I mean, I think people are hearing about these horrific conditions inside and there's ample concern about it.
And, you know, this isn't just, you know, the food is in bad state. Right now, you know, in ICE detention facilities, we have seen a historic number
of deaths. There have been 51 deaths in ICE detention in the last year alone, and that is a number we have never seen before. So, these conditions
have consequences.
GOLODRYGA: Aaron, I want to bring you in here because New York's attorney general has filed a lawsuit against a private company that's operating
Delaney Hall, that is the GEO Group, and demanding access for health funds. In April, the city of Newark also filed a lawsuit against this same group.
Does New Jersey have a legal right to inspect this private facility?
AARON REICHLIN-MELNICK, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN IMMIGRATION COUNCIL: Well, this is one of the most contested aspects of this case because legislators
and others have been trying to get inside Delaney Hall since it opened last year.
The facility opened with a number of problems already within its first two months. There were protests inside the facility and a breakout, one of the
first ever from an ICE detention facility, as people protested against inadequate food and medical care just last year. The federal government
says that state governments have no authority to regulate ICE detention centers, and there have been a number of court cases over this. So, this is
something that we'll have to see play out in court.
GOLODRYGA: Why do you think the federal government, whether or not this becomes a legally mired question, why do you think the federal government
won't just let inspectors in given all of the headlines and negative press that this has generated?
REICHLIN-MELNICK: What we've seen this administration do is refuse to back down. In a number of very high-profile incidents, the administration has
said that absolutely nothing is wrong inside its detention centers. Their official line is that people in ICE detention are being treated better than
any lawbreaker in human history. And that is not something that will hold up to inspections, which may be a reason that they are trying to keep
people out.
GOLODRYGA: Well, here's how ICE has responded on X, and let's pull up the graphic if we have it. The facts are the following. All detainees are
provided with three meals a day, clean water, clothing, bedding, shower, soap, and toiletries. Illegal aliens also have access to phones to
communicate with their family members and lawyers. Certified dietitians evaluate meals. In fact, ICE has higher detention standards than most U.S.
prisons that hold actual U.S. citizens. Jasmine, do you want to respond to those statements?
GARSD: Sure. I mean, here's some other facts. The facts also are that there are an unprecedented number of immigrants in detention, around 60,000
consistently. The facts also are that around 70 percent of those people have no criminal conviction. And immigration lawyers I've spoken to have
told me that they believe these conditions in ICE detention are meant to break people into opting for voluntary leave, in other words, that the
immigrant themselves pays to be sent away.
And we've seen that. We've seen a skyrocketing of people who are essentially tapping out because conditions are so bad. It's been around
90,000 people have asked for voluntary departure in the last -- during this Trump administration. That is seven times what we have seen during the last
year of the Biden administration.
So, conditions are so horrific in these places that -- I mean, I've spoken to people who have very intense fears of going back home, that -- who have
told me, you know, I think I could be killed if I go back home, and who have still said, you know what, I cannot do another 12 months of this. I
cannot do it.
[13:30:00]
GOLODRYGA: You mentioned the unprecedented statistics here in reality, Jasmine. Aaron, ICE detention centers drew complaints under the Obama and
Biden administrations as well. What is the difference this time?
REICHLIN-MELNICK: Yes, that's right. You know, at the American Immigration Council, we have filed complaints about conditions inside detention centers
for many years, including under the Obama administration, the Trump administration, and even the Biden administration. But we are seeing a
scale and pace of detention that is totally unprecedented.
Since taking office, the Trump administration expanded detention by over 75 percent, rising from an average of 40,000 people in custody per day on
average at the start of his term to a peak of over 73,000 people in custody in early January during the height of Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis.
And the internal watchdogs and agencies whose job it is to ensure that the standards are followed have been pushed out. The Office of Immigration
Detention Ombudsman has been slashed and eliminated entirely. DHS's internal civil rights and civil liberties watchdog has been pushed out. And
the message from on high is that, if there are abuses in detention, the administration is going to turn a blind eye to it. And that has led to
conditions that appear to be far worse than anything we've seen before.
GOLODRYGA: And as we've noted, as you've noted, Jasmine, this extends beyond just Delaney Hall. I mean, you visited some of these other detention
centers as well. Can you give us a sense of what you saw and what you heard from detainees?
GARSD: Right. So, I've spoken to detainees. I've been speaking to detainees at these facilities since President Trump took office. And I can
tell you that this is nothing new. You know, I can tell you stories about people who have very serious medical conditions and who have not been given
medical attention.
Probably, you know, the one that has stuck most with me as a journalist was a story of a family I interviewed who spent around 320 days at the Dilley
Detention Center in Texas. And this family, it was a mother, it was two teenagers, a nine-year-old and two five-year-old twins. And the conditions
they were describing were quite similar, a lack of medical attention, lack of not just lack of proper nutrition, food with worms. At one point, one of
the kids told me about finding a human fingernail in their food, lack of access to education.
And I think just to piggyback on what Aaron was saying just now, you know, within this whole process of massive expansion of the detention system, I
think it's really important to highlight the amount of money, hand over fist profits that are being made off of this. So, for example, the facility
Delaney in New Jersey, that facility is owned by one of the major contractors, which is GEO Group.
Between 2024 and 2025, GEO Group had a 700 percent profit increase. So, when we're talking about this massive expansion and the system that is
being built to funnel people, most of whom do not have criminal convictions, into these detention centers, it is important to talk about
how much money is being made off of this.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And it's also worth noting that ICE alone, ICE's budget over the last two years has gone from $10 billion to $58 billion. And just
today, the Senate is debating a $70 billion funding bill that would fund ICE, Border Patrol and DHS agencies. That's on top of the $75 billion that
was included in last year's big, beautiful bill. Jasmin, Aaron, I don't know which one of you is best to ask this question, but where is that money
going?
REICHLIN-MELNICK: Well, right now, we are seeing a large portion of this funding go to detention centers. And the Trump administration has
reportedly allocated about 75 percent of the $75 billion it got already. Of that money, $45 billion is going to immigration detention. They have used a
significant portion of that to increase the beds from 40,000 up to 70,000, though, right now, we know it's closer to 60,000, as they have quieted down
a little bit in the Metro surge.
But we know right now that they have spent $1 billion already in purchasing commercial warehouses that they fully intend to convert into massive
detention centers. And while this plan is getting off the ground a little bit slower than they expected, it seems the administration wants to expand
to as many as 24 warehouse detention centers, some that could hold upwards of 8,000 people, which would each make them individually the largest
federal prisons in U.S., in the entire United States system, bigger than any federal prison and bigger than, indeed, any state or local prison that
exists in the country right now.
[13:35:00]
GOLODRYGA: And ICE officials continue to describe these detainees as those -- the worst of the worst, those who have committed heinous crimes. Aaron,
your organization actually tracks who ICE is detaining. Does that match up with their description?
REICHLIN-MELNICK: It really doesn't. ICE actually publishes some data on who it's detaining, and it breaks down the data between who has no criminal
record whatsoever, who has a pending criminal charge for any kind of offense, and who has been convicted of any offense, no matter how small.
And what we know is that only about 14 percent of people that ICE has even arrested have any sort of serious violent offense.
And right now, the majority of people being held in detention have no criminal record at all. And, indeed, when we look back during the peak of
ICE arrests in Minneapolis, 47 percent of people that ICE was arresting nationwide had never been arrested for any offense. And those who did have
some interaction with the criminal justice system, the most common offenses were low-level misdemeanors, traffic offenses, and things that certainly
don't make anyone the, quote, "worst of the worst."
GOLODRYGA: Jasmine, you spent time outside Delaney Hall. We should note the upcoming World Cup kicking off in just days. You were a 15-minute drive
at that point at Delaney Hall from where many of these matches, including the finals, will be played. How much concern is there of the role ICE will
have during this World Cup?
GARSD: Yes. I mean, I thought, you know, it just kept coming to mind, you know, that how close Delaney Hall is to where the World Cup final is going
to be played. And it's something that has always been on my mind.
Now, ICE officials have said that these games are not going to be places where they're going to be doing roundups, that that's not the goal, that
DHS is going to have a presence, as it would at any other international major event being held on U.S. soil.
You know, but nevertheless, I mean, I think there is, it's not that I think, I know there is a climate of fear around fans and in certain
communities who happen to love soccer, who happen to love football, and who, you know, listen, I've spent the last year or so talking to people who
are afraid to go pick up their kids at school, who are afraid to go, you know, to the supermarket.
And so, why wouldn't they be afraid to go to a soccer match or to a soccer watch party? I think it's very significant that this World Cup is happening
simultaneously as, you know, we're seeing this.
GOLODRYGA: That is a good point to make. We'll have to leave the conversation there. Thank you so much for the time, Jasmine Garsd and Aaron
Reichlin-Melnick. We appreciate it.
GARSD: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: We'll be right back --
REICHLIN-MELNICK: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Now, to a medical breakthrough that is doubling the survival time for patients with one of the most aggressive forms of cancer. A new
pill taken daily to treat pancreatic cancer has shown positive findings in a study with 500 patients. Scientists found the drug reduced the risk of
death by 60 percent compared to chemotherapy.
Dr. Mark Goldsmith, the CEO of the biotech company which funded this development, joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss the landmark treatment.
[13:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARI SREENIVASAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, thanks. Dr. Mark Goldsmith, thanks so much for joining us. You're the CEO of Revolution
Medicines. It's a biotech company. According to the American Cancer Society, the five-year survival rate for people with pancreatic cancer is
about 13 percent, and it's about 3 percent for where that cancer has already spread to other parts of the body.
And so, before, I guess, we get into what is kind of interesting and important about your medicine, tell us a little bit about why pancreatic
cancer is so difficult to beat.
DR. MARK GOLDSMITH, CEO, REVOLUTION MEDICINES: Thank you, Hari. It's really a pleasure to be on with you.
This is a very important moment for patients who are living with cancers caused by something called RAS proteins. They're the most common cause of
human cancers. And the results that we're talking about today are of such significance that I think they really do demonstrate that it's possible
through bold innovation and scientific risk-taking to revolutionize the treatment for patients living with these common and often difficult-to-
treat cancers. Pancreatic cancer is one of those.
Most patients, when they are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, already have a relatively advanced disease, and that makes it very difficult to try to
unwind. And really, the only treatments, for the most part, that we've had for most patients with pancreatic cancer, particularly those with
metastatic pancreatic cancer, is standard chemotherapy. And it has just not performed at the level that any patient or their family or physician would
like.
And so, there's been an enormous push to try to find new ways to tackle the underlying causes of the cancer, not just to try to use chemicals to kill
tumors.
SREENIVASAN: So, what does this protein do to a healthy cell? And I guess, what does your medicine do to that protein?
DR. GOLDSMITH: Yes, RAS proteins are absolutely essential to every normal cell in the human body. They act as a switch. They control normal cell
growth. So, we're happy and feeling good when RAS proteins are doing what they should do.
Unfortunately, in 20 percent to 30 percent of human cancers, that switch can get stuck in the on position, meaning that a genetic change in the gene
encoding for a RAS protein causes the RAS protein to stay in the on position and to have trouble toggling to off. And as a result, it's sending
signals within the cell to grow, and then to grow uncontrollably, and that can lead to a malignancy. Pancreatic cancer is one disease which is almost
entirely caused by RAS proteins.
Nearly everybody who has pancreatic cancer has altered RAS proteins within the tumor, and therefore trying to target those RAS proteins seems like the
most logical way to go about things, but that's been difficult over many decades.
SREENIVASAN: OK. So, how did your medicine work, or what is the sort of key here? Because if these proteins are important for all of our healthy
cells, how do you target just the ones that are defective and keep pushing this on switch instead of going on and off?
DR. GOLDSMITH: Yes, that's a really important and subtle scientific topic that you're raising. First, it's been a challenge to bind a small molecule
to any RAS protein, and for decades, since the 1980s, when RAS were identified as the first human cancer-causing genes and proteins, it's been
very difficult to drug these RAS proteins.
In the last 10 to 15 years, we've seen some progress in that regard. We found a way, standing on the shoulders of many others who came before us,
to design molecules that can essentially glue onto, sort of like Velcro, bind onto the surface of a RAS protein and attach it to another protein
that smothers it and keeps it from functioning within the cell.
Now, you've asked about can we direct that specifically only to the mutant form or the genetically altered form that drives cancer, and it is possible
to do that. We have a number of molecules like that in our pipeline that are very specific for the mutant.
The reason that Daraxonrasib, the investigational drug that might have led to this discussion today, the reason that that molecule is so different
from everything else is it not only uses this glue mechanism, but it binds to the active or on form very selectively. It doesn't bind to the off form,
so it's specifically going after the oncogenic or form that's found in the tumors. It does attack or bind or target essentially all forms of RAS,
including the normal RAS proteins.
[13:45:00]
We now know from the results of the RASolute 302 phase three clinical trial that were just read out at ASCO. This was a global randomized trial of 500
patients who received either Daraxonrasib or standard of care chemotherapy that we saw significant, unprecedented improvements across many different
measures that are typically used in studies of cancer drugs.
That included a 60 percent reduction in the risk of death, which is, of course, the most important thing that we go after, but similar reductions
across a variety of different measures. In fact, those same patients actually reported that they saw stabilization of their quality of life and
preservation of that quality of life greater than did those who received chemotherapy. So, longer life, preserved quality of life, it indicates that
it is possible to do that.
SREENIVASAN: In a clinical trial with about 500 patients, your medicine nearly doubled the lifespan compared to someone who was just taking
chemotherapy. That average was about 6.7 months. And with your medicine, it went up to 13.2 months. It also reduced the risk of death by 60 percent in
patients that were taking your medicine versus just chemotherapy. What is that quality of life like? What is this doing that's allowing them, I don't
know, something better than what the standard of care is today?
DR. GOLDSMITH: Well, two limitations of standard of care chemotherapy you touched on. One is that it's not as effective as it needs to be. It often
provides very short increments in survival. And the experience of taking chemotherapy, going to an infusion center regularly, the severe side
effects, often hospitalization, and some patients even die while they're receiving chemotherapy.
We need to address both of those. And we believe Daraxonrasib does that based on results that we just reported. And we know that patients receiving
Daraxonrasib in general have been able to take that drug continuously. Sometimes they require short breaks, short vacations, many holidays from
the drug, but for the most part have been able to take it and continue benefiting from its suppression of the Ras protein that's causing cancer.
We know, in addition to that survey that patients take during the course of their, of the RASolute 302 trial, we also know anecdotally directly from
patients, from many physicians who have experienced treating a patient with Daraxonrasib that it is not uncommon for patients within a fairly short
period of time to feel better and for their life to be improved to the point where they can actually experience life, be with their family, take
care of some things that they'd very much like to take care of while they're also having a longer life.
But I also want to acknowledge something really important here, Hari. For the most part, Daraxonrasib doesn't cure most people's cancers. So, we have
more work to do and we continue to design to improve upon Daraxonrasib in a variety of different ways and to bring new molecules to the clinic with the
hope that we will convert pancreatic cancer and other cancers caused by RAS into more chronically managed diseases and eventually into true cures.
SREENIVASAN: So, Doctor, if these RAS mutations show up in colorectal cancers, in small cell lung cancers, and they account for almost a third or
more of the deaths, can this medicine be used in those other cancers as well?
DR. GOLDSMITH: Yes, that's a great point. More than 90 percent of pancreatic cancer is caused by a RAS protein, 50 percent of colorectal
cancer is caused by a RAS protein, and 30 percent of non-small cell lung cancer, and that's just the short list of the most common and deadly
cancers that can be caused by RAS.
So, you're right, and we are very interested in and very active in studying Daraxonrasib in patients with these other tumor types. In fact, we have
reported data on Daraxonrasib in lung cancer in patients with a RAS cancer driver, encouraging early data, and we're currently running a global phase
three trial in non-small cell lung cancer in those patients who carry a RAS variant that's causing their tumor.
We are also studying colorectal cancer and we have, as I alluded to earlier, a deep pipeline of molecules based on this same technology, based
on this same strategy, where we've benefited from a virtuous cycle of observation in the clinic, scientific innovation in the laboratory, more
observation in the clinic, improved innovation in the laboratory, and this is something we're deeply committed to for the long term to continue trying
to address these tumors on behalf of patients.
[13:50:00]
SREENIVASAN: You're talking about drug development in general. Taking anywhere from, I don't know, let's say average a dozen years, and most
people, that's part of the hopelessness that they feel, that even if you've got something in the lab today, it's going to take forever by the time that
it can actually impact my life. So, in this particular case, this is a very truncated timeline. How did that happen?
DR. GOLDSMITH: Yes, we first brought Daraxonrasib into a clinical study in 2022, and here we are in 2026 and we've completed what should be, appears
to be, the definitive study that demonstrates this benefit in pancreatic cancer. And we are actively working to bring the information from that
trial to the FDA so that they can review it and make a decision about whether it should be made more widely available through an approval. That's
a very short period of time.
Once the early results were seen in 2023, patients were clamoring to get access to Daraxonrasib because they smelled what we smelled, which is a
real opportunity here to make a difference. Daraxonrasib, we hope, will be made available broadly. That will be subject to the review process that we
need to go through with the FDA.
In the meantime, we have opened an expanded access program that allows physicians who are caring for patients with pancreatic cancer to apply for
drug on behalf of their patients, even before it is approved by the FDA. And the FDA has endorsed this expanded access program, and we're now
shipping drug to doctors on behalf of their patients.
Secondly, receiving Daraxonrasib may buy people time to allow for additional innovation. And that's already been occurring, that patients now
see real opportunity to continue their lives. We hope to have lives that are satisfying to them and to their families, but also hope that the next
generation of molecules will come along. And we're pushing those as fast as we can.
DR. GOLDSMITH: We have this evidence that there's a class and a category of medicines that will actually be really helpful to a very large swath of
people. And the cost is a significant hurdle. So, here you are, you've spent the time, the resources, the money in developing this drug, and you
want to increase access. You want to make sure that anybody with pancreatic cancer or any of the other cancers it works on gets access to it. How do
you bake that into the process?
DR. GOLDSMITH: Well, you're right. It's very expensive to develop drugs. We've spent, even as a small biotech company, we've spent billions of
dollars already, even before we had the kind of evidence that we have with the RASolute 302 trial. And we're currently running or about to initiate
another seven of these phase three trials, which are extraordinarily expensive.
So, it does cost a lot of money to do this. That's just inherent in providing good, compliant, safe management of patients during the course of
a clinical trial. And it requires large trials that take sometimes a couple of years to do. That investment has to be recouped since that capital comes
from investors, and that has something to do with pricing.
I think the other aspect of it is that drugs that have great effects probably deserve to be priced at a higher price point than drugs that
don't. And that's built into the system. The payers, including the federal government, use the outcomes of the clinical trials as one of the ways in
which they decide what's an appropriate price and an appropriate tradeoff.
But the question you're asking is a very big one that has to do with how do we pay for health care in general. Drugs are a relatively small component
of the overall cost of medical care, hospitalizations, physician time, infusion centers. There are many, many things that contribute to that high
cost of medicine. And we'll do our best to deliver the drug on behalf of patients and make it possible even for those who can't afford it through
the various mechanisms that are available.
SREENIVASAN: CEO of Revolution Medicines, Dr. Mark Goldsmith, thanks so much for your time.
DR. GOLDSMITH: Thank you, Hari.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: And finally, we remember Iranian artist and activist Marjane Satrapi, who has died at the age of 56, a powerful voice who brought the
story of her homeland struggles to a global audience. Satrapi was best known for her acclaimed graphic novel and film "Persepolis."
She was a vocal critic of the Iranian regime and a longstanding women's rights campaigner, including during the 2022 Women Life Freedom Movement.
She left Iran for good in 1994, but remained deeply connected to its people and culture throughout her life.
In 2020, she spoke to Christiane about her own experience as a refugee and what it means to live with loss and compassion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARJANE SATRAPI, ILLUSTRATOR, FILMMAKER AND ACTIVIST: Nobody leaves their own country because they think it's fun.
[13:55:00]
Everybody loves the place they were born. They love the food they eat. They love the geography of the place that they are. If we go, there is because
we don't have any choice. And the moment that people, they have this empathy and the compassion to understand that and see in front of them, not
an abstract notion of the migrant, but a human being who is in need of freedom and in need just to survive, then probably we have made a step
forward. But I think 2020 is kind of really late to start thinking about this thing. It should have been a long time ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: An important life lost far too soon. May she rest in peace. That is it for now. Please remember, you can always catch us online, on our
website, and all-over social media. Thanks so much for watching, and goodbye from New York.
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[14:00:00]
END
