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Amanpour
Interview with Former French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin; Interview with 18-time Grand Slam Tennis Champion and Former Number 1 Tennis Player Chris Evert; Interview with 18-time Grand Slam Tennis Champion and Former No.1 Tennis Player Martina Navratilova. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired June 11, 2026 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everybody, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Whenever they attack, we respond more severely and more heavily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: The U.S. and Iran trade a new round of strikes with G7 leaders gathering in France next week. I speak to the former French foreign and
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin about Iran, Ukraine, and the global consequences of both conflicts.
Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS EVERT, 18-TIME GRAND SLAM TENNIS CHAMPION AND FORMER NO.1 TENNIS PLAYER: We traveled together. We practiced together. We ate dinner
together. We did press conferences together. We did everything together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: -- one of the greatest rivalries in sports, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova on competition, friendship, and facing cancer together.
Also, ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BYRON ALLEN: None of it's going to go away. Linear will always be here. Linear TV will be here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Walter Isaacson speaks to media mogul Byron Allen about replacing Stephen Colbert and the future of late-night television.
Hello, everyone, and -- welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in Paris.
President Trump has threatened to hit Iran, quote, "very hard tonight," and says again that the United States could take control of Hague Island, the
hub that handles most of Iran's oil exports. The threat comes just days before G7 leaders will meet here in France with how to end the war on Iran
expected to dominate the summit. President Trump will join the world's major economies alongside invited leaders from the Middle East as energy
prices rise and rattle global markets.
But even as leaders gather, the major European war, sparked by Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, has taken a backseat. The Trump
administration's push for a quick peace deal stalled months ago.
Now, for more on the consequences of these global crises, I'm joined by Dominique de Villepin. He is France's former foreign minister, former prime
minister, and a potential contender in next year's presidential election. Foreign minister, former foreign minister de Villepin, welcome back to our
program.
DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPIN, FORMER FRENCH PRIME MINISTER: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: We have a big delay, so I hope that doesn't interfere with our conversation. But let me first ask you, because we're right in the middle
of what seems to be yet another crucial turning point, Trump and Iran facing off against each other, the French hosting all the world's major
economies, G7 countries.
What do you think Europe and its G7 allies will say to Trump? What's the best that you think can emerge from this meeting regarding the crises that
are faced right now?
DE VILLEPIN: Well, what we can say right now is that we are seeing the consequences of the U.S. and Israeli intervention in the Gulf. And if I can
take this image, I would put it this way, it is a geopolitical Chernobyl. We are seeing the chain reaction of this big event. And what we see is a
meltdown of the core reactor. That is the U.S. leadership. And we are facing a situation that nobody anymore is controlling.
War feeds the war. Another intervention will feed more intervention. And we all know the lesson from history and many centuries ago that peace cannot
go through force and strength. This is a very strong illusion that is having Donald Trump.
[13:05:00]
AMANPOUR: So, you're saying basically that the U.S. foreign policy, based on strength, as even they have spoken about publicly, especially after the
capture of Nicolas Maduro, you're saying that it's not going to achieve the ends that they want to achieve. So, with Trump appearing to want to get out
of this war and it not happening yet, what do you think Europe can do to help him out of the war? Do you think they should try, having not tried and
not taken part in the actual war?
DE VILLEPIN: Well, I think the Europeans have a good understanding of the balance of forces in the region. We all understand that most of the Gulf
countries want peace. They have seen the consequences of the U.S. strikes as well as the Israeli strikes on Iran. And what has been the consequence?
The consequence has been even a more tightened regime. It has strengthened the strongest in the regime, which are the Pazurans, the revolutionary
gods.
So, we are far away from getting rid of this awful regime, as we have seen during the first weeks of the year. And we have to face this reality. So,
the first thing I believe for the European is to have an immediate and verifiable ceasefire in all active fronts, which means Gaza, which means
Lebanon, and of course Iran.
The second point, I think, which is key, is to have free navigation in the Strait of Hormuz. Third point, support the sovereignty of Lebanon. We won't
have peace in the Gulf if Lebanon is not linked with the situation in Iran, because of the nature of relationship between Iran and the Hezbollah. So,
we have to face the globality of the consequences.
That means to find a global regional diplomatic framework, and the Europeans have a strong understanding of the situation in the region, as
well as a very good knowledge of the nuclear question, which is, of course, at the center of all the preoccupation we need to address, and to enter
into an important nuclear negotiation, as well as a negotiation on the missiles and all the proxies of the region.
Donald Trump today doesn't have the ability to enter in such negotiations.
AMANPOUR: Let me just --
DE VILLEPIN: He doesn't have the knowledge, not have the patience to understand how to go forward.
AMANPOUR: Wow. So, I interrupted you a little bit, but you said, doesn't have the knowledge, doesn't have the patience, or I think the diplomatic
teams to go ahead and take this forward. But that puts a lot of burden on European leaders, who have been really trying to catch up with Donald
Trump's policies, whether it's tariffs, whether it is these wars, whether it's essentially dropping the lion's share of American support for Ukraine,
putting it in Europe's hands.
Let's talk about the war in Ukraine, which is Europe's war now. Where do you think that is headed? Clearly, the Ukrainians are making quite
important strides. But where do you think that is headed? And how do you think, you know, Putin will be convinced to come to the bargaining table?
DE VILLEPIN: Yes. Well, what we see today in Ukraine is the fact that Europe has been able to take the lead concerning the situation in Ukraine.
Most of the support given to Ukraine goes through Europe. More than 200 billion euros has been spent since the start of the war. And the U.S. has
been only supporting for a little more than 100 billion euros. So, there is an imbalance. And today, most of the cooperation of the U.S. in direction
of Ukraine has stopped.
So, the Europeans have shown some credibility in their capacity to master the situation with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. At this point in time, the
situation of Ukraine is a little bit better than the one of Russia. Russia is facing many difficulties in the Russian society. And Kyiv has shown its
ability to strike all over Russia. And in the last weeks in St. Petersburg, where the economic forum was taking place.
[13:10:00]
So, that means that there is a possibility to convince Vladimir Putin, if Donald Trump plays its part. And if Donald Trump understands that it is not
given that Ukraine should accept the basic conditions of Russia to negotiate. Ukraine today is in a much better position. And we have to put a
lot of weight on Russia and Vladimir Putin.
AMANPOUR: And briefly, a last question. The British defense minister resigned today, essentially saying that the government of Prime Minister
Starmer is not doing as much as he needs to do to boost Britain's defenses, to meet these kinds of challenges and to make up for the U.S. demands and
their pullback. What does that say about Europe, whether it's Britain, France, Germany, their ability to actually take their own defense lead?
DE VILLEPIN: Well, in the last year, all the Europeans have increased considerably their budget on defense. And they have understood that they
have been aware that they need to take care of their own needs concerning security issues. And I think for the last year, what has been done is quite
important. And everybody should appreciate this movement.
Of course, we need to do more. And we need to understand that the U.S. support is in question today. And we need to take care of our own defense.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
DE VILLEPIN: But that doesn't mean, as allies, we should not work with the U.S. and do our best.
AMANPOUR: Former Foreign Minister -- former Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, thank you so much for joining me.
DE VILLEPIN: Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: And stay with us, because we'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AMANPOUR: Now, it was one of sports greatest rivalries. Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova, two of the most outstanding tennis players ever to
pick up a racket. Throughout the '70s and the '80s, they lit up the courts, ending their careers on 18 Grand Slams each. After years of battling it out
across the net, life after tennis saw their friendship grow, especially when they both faced a new kind of opponent at the same time. That was
cancer. It is all documented in a new Netflix film. Take a look at the trailer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS EVERT, 18-TIME GRAND SLAM TENNIS CHAMPION AND FORMER NO.1 TENNIS PLAYER: In the beginning, it was fine for me to be friends with her
because I was better than her.
MARTINA NAVRATILOVA, 18-TIME GRAND SLAM TENNIS CHAMPION AND FORMER NO.1 TENNIS PLAYER: That hurt. I knew that I needed to be more of a killer
instinct.
EVERT: It was the lowest of lows in our relationship.
NAVRATILOVA: Chris was the enemy, and she's the one that had to beat to get to number one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They do some damage to each other emotionally.
EVERT: If you want to be great at something, you give up things. Sometimes it takes terrible things to happen for you to realize how you really feel
about things.
NAVRATILOVA: The goal is to get free of cancer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[13:15:00]
AMANPOUR: And the documentary debuted at the Tribeca Festival in New York last night. And I sat down with both Evert and Navratilova during the
French Open at Roland-Garros, right here in Paris, looking over Court Philippe-Chatrier, sight of some of their greatest victories. Here's our
conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, welcome.
NAVRATILOVA: Thank you.
EVERT: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: This -- I don't know why I'm saying welcome, because this is your studio.
NAVRATILOVA: This is her studio. Mine is across the pond.
EVERT: Wimbledon.
AMANPOUR: Yes. Yours is Wimbledon and yours is here. OK. So, how does it feel being here where you did some of your greatest glory?
EVERT: It feels great. I mean, --
NAVRATILOVA: Better.
EVERT: You know -- no, I mean, you know, when I'm watching these women, I just -- I remember myself out on the court and yes, the conditions are
different. The rackets are different. The power, there's more power. There's, you know, shot making and more athleticism. But at the same time,
the way you play on clay remains the same.
NAVRATILOVA: The emotions are the same.
EVERT: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And what are the emotions?
NAVRATILOVA: Well, you run the gamut. I mean, sometimes it happens in just one match. Sometimes in one game, you can go from total euphoria to being
so depressed or, you know, emotional. Nowadays, they get a lot of help from the coaches. We had to figure it out by ourselves.
AMANPOUR: Well, let's talk about that because let's face it. You were the emotional one. You were the fire.
NAVRATILOVA: You think?
AMANPOUR: I think. And you were the ice, right?
EVERT: Yes.
AMANPOUR: The cool maiden, ice maiden, whatever.
NAVRATILOVA: She kept it inside.
AMANPOUR: Yes, you kept it inside. But I wonder how you felt actually about being labeled this ruthless ice maiden.
EVERT: Thank you. Well, at Wimbledon, they first labeled me that when I went over at 17 years old. And they couldn't understand why or how a school
girl didn't show emotion and wasn't acting like a girl, you know. And I was very, you know, much just unemotional. And I learned at a young age to keep
it in. I learned that it just worked for me. My dad told me, you know, don't allow your opponent to see if you're upset or anything because
they'll use it to their advantage. And they'll say, aha, I've got her.
So, I kind of took that theory to heart. And I was very, you know, placid and just unemotional out there and very focused. And that's -- that -- it
worked for me. That was my personality at that time on the court. And --
AMANPOUR: And the opposite worked for you, letting it all out.
NAVRATILOVA: Well, I still haven't learned to keep it in. But I always admired that. I just couldn't relate because like, you know --
AMANPOUR: But it worked for you being emotional.
NAVRATILOVA: Well, I've managed to control the emotions. So, you can show them as long as they don't control you, you control them. So, it's OK to
get upset, but not whiny. And I was whiny at the beginning.
EVERT: Well, Martina would be emotional and whiny or whatever, like right after the point. But then when it was time for the next point, she'd reset
very, very well. McEnroe did that well, too. Yes.
AMANPOUR: You said -- and it's important because mental health is a huge aspect of everything right now, including tennis and including all sports.
Many female athletes really, really take their mental health into account and do what they need to do. You were just saying that you guys never had
that luxury, never had that opportunity.
NAVRATILOVA: I didn't really get help until in my late 20s or mid 20s when a friend said, oh, you know, you're just beating yourself when you get
upset. I'm like, oh, OK. And then that helped. And then Billie Jean helped me a lot on the mental side, but I really didn't deal with the emotions as
well or certainly didn't get any help from the outside.
I mean, it was unusual. I was traveling with my coach. Chris always tried traveling with her coach later in her career.
EVERT: Chris?
NAVRATILOVA: Chris. She only -- she had her dad at home, but for six years, I didn't even have a coach. So --
AMANPOUR: OK. So, let's talk about that because part of the documentary that is so interesting, you came away from Czechoslovakia. You defected
when you were in the United States at one U.S. Open. And OK, we understand that. But I didn't know the loneliness, the fact that you had no
infrastructure, no family infrastructure. What was it like to take that decision to leave your parents, to leave everything you knew?
NAVRATILOVA: It was a one-way ticket. And that was the hard part. I never knew if I would ever go back. If anything happened to my family, I couldn't
go back or I could go back and I would not get out again. So, it was a one way, one way street. And my parents couldn't come see me. So, it was --
that was rough.
EVERT: I thought it was remarkable that at that young of an age, you know, 16, 17 years old, she wanted to be number one in the world. Desperately.
She knew she had the talent, all the talent in the world. And she made that decision herself to make that move because she knew if she moved to
America, she could have the resources that she needed and she could be achieve her goal. And she did. You know, you did.
AMANPOUR: And some.
EVERT: And I was going to say, and, you know, how many 18, you know, majors? And it was like -- but to just learn that at a young age, to feel
that and at the back of my mind, know that you may never see your parents again. I mean, that's like --
NAVRATILOVA: That was the hardest part. And my sister.
[13:20:00]
EVERT: -- really gutsy move.
AMANPOUR: How did you two become friends and was it normal to -- not normal, was it -- did all players have friendships on the road?
NAVRATILOVA: Yes.
EVERT: Yes.
NAVRATILOVA: There was no teams.
EVERT: Well, let's put it this way, when we started out it was Billy Jean, and Rosie and Martina, and I, and, you know, other players, and we were
like the traveling band or traveling circus, you know.
NAVRATILOVA: Yes.
EVERT: We traveled together, we practiced together, we ate dinner together, we did press conferences together, we did everything together.
There's no coaches, there are no teams, and we had -- there was no money to pay for, you know, a therapist, and a physio, and a coach. So, we did
everything together.
Martina and I practiced together before the finals of the French Open, and then we had --
NAVRATILOVA: We did.
EVERT: And then we had a chicken.
NAVRATILOVA: On that court.
EVERT: We had a lunch. I remember it was chicken and mashed potatoes. We sat together and had lunch, and then we --
NAVRATILOVA: And we probably went out to dinner too.
EVERT: Yes. Probably. And then we traveled the next day to England, and, you know, it was like there's so much camaraderie.
AMANPOUR: Wimbledon.
EVERT: Wimbledon, right.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
EVERT: But there's so much camaraderie in those days, and we really did care about each other.
AMANPOUR: But camaraderie only lasted or only extended to a certain point, because, you know, in the doc it shows that you were fine to be her friend
as long as you were beating her.
EVERT: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Right?
EVERT: Yes, yes.
AMANPOUR: Well, expand.
EVERT: OK. So, no, no, no. I will, I will.
AMANPOUR: How did it affect your friendship?
EVERT: Well --
AMANPOUR: When she started to rise and challenge you.
EVERT: Well, we were playing doubles together. That was the big thing. We were playing doubles together. We're not only practicing together, we were
playing doubles together. And then, Martina started beating me, and I went to her --
NAVRATILOVA: That's a big no-no.
EVERT: I didn't send her a text. I didn't send her a letter. I went to her, and I said, Martina, you know, I don't think I can play doubles with
you anymore, because, you know, in my mind, I felt like --
NAVRATILOVA: She said that afterwards.
EVERT: -- we were getting a little too close. She was knowing my game a little bit too much from the practicing and the doubles. And I -- my number
one goal was to be number one in singles. So, I wasn't willing -- that didn't mean I wasn't going to be her friend. I just thought that I should
break up the doubles. And --
AMANPOUR: But you thought she broke up your friendship.
NAVRATILOVA: What? No, not the friendship.
EVERT: No, no, no.
NAVRATILOVA: No, no, no.
EVERT: We're still friends.
NAVRATILOVA: Just doubles. And I got that. Some people can be friends with, you know, really opposition. But she dumped me for doubles in '76. We
won Wimbledon in '76. We won here in '75. And we won '76. And I lost to Chris, I think, in the semis that year here. And -- but it was close, on
grass. And then we go to U.S. Open and we're supposed to play doubles together. And that's when Chris said, you know, I just need to concentrate
on singles.
EVERT: I need to concentrate on singles. You know my game too well. And I was getting too close with her. And I think that, you know, that my
priority was to still have Martina as a friend, but, you know, to stand off a little bit.
AMANPOUR: OK. So, let's throw it back to her then.
EVERT: Is that that bad?
AMANPOUR: No, it's not bad.
EVERT: That happens all the time in sports.
AMANPOUR: OK, fine, fine. But you were then in a relationship, although it wasn't public, with the great American basketball player, Nancy Lieberman.
EVERT: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And -- yes.
NAVRATILOVA: That was a little bit later. That was a modulated one.
AMANPOUR: OK. I know, but -- so, when you started to rise, apparently, she advised you, stop being friends with Chrissy. You cannot like Chrissy. You
have to hate Chrissy on the court.
NAVRATILOVA: Yes, she was trying to do that, but it wasn't working. Chris was a carrot for me. That's who I was thinking about when I was training,
because I had everybody else covered, but I couldn't beat Chris consistently. Once in a while, yes, but not consistently. And I couldn't
get to number one if I don't beat Chris.
AMANPOUR: We were just talking off camera about the training. It sounds brutal. Give us a little --
NAVRATILOVA: So, Nancy and I met in April. And when I lost --
AMANPOUR: Because you were, by the way, just to put it --
NAVRATILOVA: No, but then I was --
AMANPOUR: -- you were a little bit --
NAVRATILOVA: No, I had lost the weight, but I wasn't in great shape, but I was the same weight. But then I lost to Chris that day in Emilia after I
just met Nancy. Then I went to French, lost here in the semis, I think. On grass, I lost to Andrea Jaeger, and then I lost in the semis at Wimbledon
'81 to Chris. And that's when Nancy said, you know, how much longer are you going to play? I'm like, till I'm 30, and then I'll see. And I was 26
almost at that point.
So, you know, you could be in so much better shape. You could play so much better. I'm like, what are you talking about? So, that's when I got on the
basketball court, started running suicide drills. That's when I started training, went on track. And then the biggest key was that to get started.
And then Renee Richards started helping me, coaching me after the U.S. Open in '81.
AMANPOUR: And can we just point out, given the, you know, sensitivities around everything right now, Renee Richards was transgender. She changed --
NAVRATILOVA: Yes. She still is.
AMANPOUR: Or is. She's still alive. Sorry. And it was not a huge big deal back then, right? I mean, she --
NAVRATILOVA: It was a big deal that she was allowed to play, but she sued for the right to play. It was a one-off. And Renee was in her 40s. And
that's the only reason she didn't beat the pants off of us.
[13:25:00]
So, I had a few tough matches with her, and I played doubles with her, and then she started coaching me in '81. So, for me, she was a great person
that I only knew as a woman. And that was only one. But these days, the way the laws are, it's basically anybody can say, I'm a woman, and then they
compete.
AMANPOUR: And you feel that that's unfair?
NAVRATILOVA: Well, of course it's unfair. I mean, male bodies are males and females.
EVERT: Science, yes.
NAVRATILOVA: Look, I raised two girls. And now, I'm raising two boys. Oh, my God. It's like two different species. So, yes, I mean, the body -- the
advantages that a male has over a female can never go away.
EVERT: Well, the thing -- Renee Richards came out with a quote and said, she was going to do the quarterfinals and semifinals of all these
tournaments on the WTA. And that was unforeseen. You know, you never heard about that. She came out and said, she said, yes, I was in my 40s, and I
was playing, and I was out of shape, and I was slow, and I was old. And if I had been in my 20s, I would have killed everybody.
NAVRATILOVA: Yes.
EVERT: And so, I mean, if you ask her, and, you know, she's like, doesn't think that.
NAVRATILOVA: She should have been allowed to play then.
EVERT: Shouldn't be allowed to play, or they should be allowed to play.
AMANPOUR: So, I don't know whether it's fair or right, or is it the right time, but do you have a solution for this? What would be the optimum
solution for the current dilemma?
EVERT: You know, have their own -- would have their own category? I don't know.
NAVRATILOVA: Own category or play -- you have to stay in the male or female sex category. It's the biggest difference between humans. And it's
the only fair way to go about it. So, you can have a female category and an open category. So, if you're non-binary, or if you want to compete with the
guys, you can. But you cannot, as a man, compete against women. It's not fair. It can never be fair.
AMANPOUR: I want to get back to the -- how you all felt on the courts. There's a picture in the doc. Honestly, it kind of broke my heart. You're
hugging a pole after winning a match, a very -- one of the big matches that you won.
NAVRATILOVA: It was the first tournament I won.
AMANPOUR: There you go. And you're hugging a pole, and the narration is, well, I didn't have my family. I didn't have anybody.
NAVRATILOVA: I was alone, and I unexpectedly won the tournament, and then when I won, I wanted to hug somebody, but there was nobody that I knew
there. So, I hugged a pole, white pole, right next to the umpire's chair.
EVERT: Yes, it's a lovely life.
NAVRATILOVA: And that was the photo that was in the paper.
EVERT: I mean, there's -- it's a lonely life. I remember winning Wimbledon and at one time beating Evonne Goolagong and going back to an empty hotel
room and lying down on the floor, and I couldn't get up. I was so depressed. I couldn't get up. And I realized it was because I didn't have
anybody to share it with. And I had put everything, all my emotions and everything into my tennis that I really didn't have many friends at all.
And, you know, that was like -- that was a moment that opened my eyes. And then I changed -- everything changed after that.
AMANPOUR: What changed?
EVERT: I went back and worked on friendships. I went back. Because people -- when you're a star, people come up to you all the time and they want
something or they want to be your friend, but -- and you don't even -- you don't have to give back, you know, because you're so busy playing.
NAVRATILOVA: It's a self-centered existence. It has to be.
EVERT: You become self-absorbed, really. You have to think about yourself. So, after that, I realized I don't want to live like this at all. And I
went home and called my friends that I had. And I started working, you know, giving and spending time and putting energy into friendships. And
instead of everybody coming to me, I was going to them. And then that worked out. It was just a good balance.
AMANPOUR: I want to get to the other major connection between you two. Cancer also cropped up and attacked you both and brought you both together.
You had throat and breast cancer. You had ovarian cancer. Full disclosure, I've been in this journey as well. And how do -- how did you deal with it
hits you?
EVERT: Well, the first thing I did was I called Billie Jean King and I said, do you -- can I have Christiane's phone number? Because I know that
she's had it and I need to talk to somebody who's had that cancer. You have been great to me.
AMANPOUR: I sent you a white fluffy blanket, which somebody gave to me the same. And I found it so comforting and it's in the film, I think.
EVERT: Yes, I think it is too. I think it is.
AMANPOUR: It is the white fluffy blanket.
EVERT: But it's so nice to have somebody who's been through that. But I remember Martina calling me, you know, right away. We called each other.
One of the first people we called were each other and it just is ironic that we've had this journey in tennis and then all of a sudden get cancer
at the same time and then twice, you know, and she was there for me and I was there for her. And it -- again, it, it really helps to have somebody to
talk to about it.
AMANPOUR: And in the doc, we see, you know, quite intense medical scenes. I mean, we see the intravenous, we see you guys going through the MRI and
the CT scan and all the other things. We see you, frankly, at your most vulnerable, more than you were ever, even when you lost on the court.
[13:30:00]
I guess you were comfortable, obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have let it, but why did you want to depict all that as well?
NAVRATILOVA: I think Chris was much more public about it. I kind of went into a hole when I was going through most of my treatment. I closed up. I
even said to Julia, my wife, please go. I need to be alone. Just take care of me. I'm self-sufficient, but I was getting a lot of support from
everybody. Always had that phone call or text from Chris. I got lots of blankets from friends.
But I made it public only because I was supposed to be working, so it would have come out. Then after -- again, we were all about raising the --
AMANPOUR: Awareness.
NAVRATILOVA: -- awareness for people to get checked. Don't ignore any kind of signs and deal with it because it saved both of us being proactive
before the --
AMANPOUR: I feel that way too. Raise awareness wherever you can. Because let's face it, actually, women's cancers -- just women's medical problems
get short shrift compared --
NAVRATILOVA: As always.
AMANPOUR: -- to men when they go to the doctor.
EVERT: Yes. My story was a little different because I have my sister Jeannie too.
AMANPOUR: That's right.
EVERT: My sister died from ovarian cancer. And like two years before I was diagnosed with it.
AMANPOUR: Yes.
EVERT: We both eventually had the BRCA gene. My sister, when she died, did not have the BRCA gene, but later on the geneticist called me and said,
your sister now had a variant that has turned into cancer after she had died. So, that variant -- well, she didn't have the BRCA gene, but she had
a suspect variant, which means that it's not -- there's not enough case studies to classify it as cancer. But after she died, they had more
research and it was classified.
And so, my gynecologist told me, went right in, let's get the test. I had the BRCA gene as it turned out. The next day I had a hysterectomy to be
proactive to have it, not knowing I had cancer. I had cancer in my ovaries and I had cancer in my fallopian tube. So, for me, my sister saved my life,
for sure. I wasn't feeling any different. OK. So, I thought, people have to know about this BRCA gene. People have to know about genetic testing.
You know, you used to go in the doctor's office and have to fill out and you thought it was a pain in the neck. Why do they have to know what my
grandmother had? And why do they have to know this? Why do they have to know that? I didn't realize it's just genetics and that's so important with
cancers.
AMANPOUR: And how did you cope when, you know, you had successful treatment and then you relapsed? I mean, both of you did. How did you cope
with that?
NAVRATILOVA: Well, I had cancer like 15 years ago, but maybe wouldn't have been DCIS. And then this one, when I got checked to see exactly where the
tumor was on my throat, I had a CT scan and then my right breast lit up. So, I had two unrelated cancers. So, that's when I got tested for the
genetic stuff and I had nothing. I just had three completely different cancers, three unrelated, but got them all early enough. So, I was lucky
about that.
EVERT: Yes. I had -- after my first cancer, I had surgery, chemo, and then two years later it came back.
AMANPOUR: And are you in a state of good right now?
NAVRATILOVA: We're all good.
AMANPOUR: Good.
NAVRATILOVA: Cancer.
EVERT: But we have to get -- I have to get a CT every three months.
AMANPOUR: Yes. You do, but it's --
EVERT: And blood work every month because my white blood cells are low.
AMANPOUR: But in a way, thank God, because you will always be monitored and that's really important.
EVERT: Yes.
AMANPOUR: It really is. In the film, you do a reveal, all of a sudden, you're looking into the mirror and you take off your wig.
EVERT: Martina and I discussed this. If we're going to do a documentary, it's going to be full disclosure and it's going to be authentic. And we
have to get into the dirt, you know, and this is the reality. This is what happens. Take it off. Maybe it's a shock to some people, but it's like,
this is what happens. And I think we both have a great message. If any -- you feel anything wrong with your body, anything different, go get your
blood work.
AMANPOUR: And the other great message is, in an era where if you do get diagnosed early, you can manage it. That's what my oncologists say. It's no
longer necessarily a death sentence and that's really important.
I want to end by the beautiful scene in the documentary where you're both sitting, now-ish, watching the 1978 Wimbledon final. It was really, really
cool watching you both. How did you feel knowing that -- did you remember what made Martina win and you lose that one?
EVERT: You mean when I hit her in the head? When I hit her in the head? I did not mean to hit her in the head.
NAVRATILOVA: No, you did not.
EVERT: You know that, right?
NAVRATILOVA: No. Yes, of course. That was the only time I --
EVERT: It woke her up. I was -- I shouldn't have done it. It woke her up. You know, I just think things happen for a reason and that it was
inevitable. She was a better grass core player than I was.
[13:35:00]
I also was falling in love with John Lloyd at that time and, you know, I just -- I didn't have that fiery intensity that I normally have. I was
pretty relaxed, not making that as an excuse, but, you know, how personal relationships can affect matches a little bit, but I was genuinely happy
for her. I mean, I really was.
NAVRATILOVA: She was.
EVERT: Because -- I really was. I mean, this was her dream. This is why she defected. She hadn't seen her family. She gave up so much and she was
the best grass core player then. So, I think that sums up our friendship. And what I've learned from Martina over the last three or four years,
especially since we've retired, is just enormous compassion that she has for everything in life, you know, just not only for me, but for everybody
around her, for the world in general. So, she's a good person.
NAVRATILOVA: It did bring us together, but what a way to do it. I would not recommend it to anybody, but, you know, we made the most out of what we
had. So --
EVERT: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And you in 1978, how did you feel?
NAVRATILOVA: Oh, well, it was bittersweet, you know. It was a dream of mine and my family. My dad spent thousands of hours with me on the court
and he couldn't come. And I didn't even know if they saw it. So -- and it was a back-and-forth match as well.
EVERT: Yes.
NAVRATILOVA: So, I was thrilled, but then I was sad. But then my dad called me and they had watched it on TV. They went close to the German
border and watched it. But it was -- and then the next year my mom was --
AMANPOUR: They went close to the German border?
NAVRATILOVA: To watch it on TV because in the Czech news that didn't exist. So, the -- people knew that I was --
EVERT: Non-person.
NAVRATILOVA: I was a persona non grata. So, anyway, it was bittersweet.
AMANPOUR: But actually, let's end on that beautiful scene when you actually go back for the Fed Cup, right? And you go back together and you
are a hero, a national hero. That must've been fantastic.
NAVRATILOVA: Now, Chris and I --
AMANPOUR: And you go, you went obviously with her.
NAVRATILOVA: We've been through so much. That was probably the happiest and also sad for me because my grandmother was dying and, you know, it was
so much emotion in every way. And then I could leave, and I cried when I left when the plane was taking off because I could leave, but 15 million
people couldn't.
EVERT: Yes. That's why the women were crying too.
NAVRATILOVA: But everybody was crying. It was such a political, you know, up your -- sorry, excuse me, to the communists.
EVERT: They didn't say, they didn't print her name in the newspapers. It was, you know, Chris Evert and the American team and they put her on a side
court the first match.
NAVRATILOVA: Yes. Chris Evert, blah, blah, blah.
EVERT: Blah, blah, blah.
NAVRATILOVA: And then, you know, and the player from America.
EVERT: I mean, for her to be able to go play and win every match and the U.S. beat Czechoslovakia in the final. Isn't that ironic? Everybody was
rooting for Martina.
NAVRATILOVA: But it was a political statement.
EVERT: The women were crying. And because they -- the women were crying because they loved Martina and they loved to see her, but also because of
their own lives that they wish that they could be -- have made that step as well.
AMANPOUR: That's such a good way to close this conversation. Thank you both so much. Chris Evert.
NAVRATILOVA: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Martina Navratilova.
EVERT: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[13:40:00]
AMANPOUR: Now, 628,000. That is the amount of people who tuned into CBS late night slot the first Monday after Stephen Colbert's show was replaced.
While that number might sound big, that is actually a 65 percent drop from Colbert's average. Still, comic Byron Allen's company is shelling out $15
million a year to nab that coveted slot. And he's joining Walter Isaacson to discuss why he's betting big on the future of media and late night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER ISAACSON, CO-HOST, AMANPOUR AND CO.: Thank you, Christiane. And, Byron Allen, welcome to the show.
BYRON ALLEN: Well, thank you, Walter. Thank you for having me.
ISAACSON: Congratulations. You've taken over the time slot on CBS. That long was held by Stephen Colbert. How long have you --
(CNN U.S. SIMULCAST)
[14:00:00]
END
