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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
At Least 5 Hurt In Mass Shooting On FSU Campus; Dow Falls Another 500 Points As Trump Blasts Fed Chair; Court Denies Trump DOJ Appeal In "Shocking" Case Of Man Mistakenly Deported To El Salvador. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 17, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: -- as this, it is in response to some sort of grievance.
[16:00:03]
So, to have -- they identified what type of grievance this individual, you know, may have against the school or you know, a faculty member or another student there.
Also really concerning, 75 percent of the time of these active shooter situations, the shooter made what's known as concerning communications just prior to the attack. I want to know if law enforcement knew of any of that prior to.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: That's a really good point. Jonathan Wackrow, thank you so much for the perspective.
We're going to track more from this mass shooting at Florida State University next on THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT. It starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news right here on CNN. Let's head into THE ARENA.
Right now, we're standing by for our first update from police on the country's latest mass shooting. At least five people hurt, the suspect in custody after shooting on the campus of Florida State University.
Also this hour, President Trump upping his criticism of Fed Chair Jerome Powell lobbying a not so veiled threat to fire him, as Wall Street wraps up another rocky day.
Plus, the Supreme Court, just within the past hour, agreeing to hear arguments over one of President Trump's most controversial orders and setting up one of the most consequential high court showdowns in modern history.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt, welcome to THE ARENA.
It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday, although we do have some difficult breaking news coming out of Florida. At least five people injured in a mass shooting on the campus of Florida State University in Tallahassee.
Let's bring in CNN national -- senior national correspondent Ryan Young. We're also joined by our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, and senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.
Ryan, let me go first to you. We're learning this news conference is set for 4:30 Eastern, that, of course, a little under 30 minutes from now.
What do we know right now?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, were all trying to track down the details to this. The entire team is working on this. We know at 12:00, there was that initial tweet sent out by Florida State saying everyone to shelter in place. The Student Union was the place where this violence happened.
The active shooter call going out. Students have been telling us they use barricades to sort of lock themselves in, but we know the active shooter was moving around this area. And since then, we know that five people have been sent to the hospital, including the shooter, which makes the sixth person there. We know one is in critical, five others in serious condition.
Now, we've been scrubbing the Internet because there's plenty of video that's out there involving the shooting, with police with long guns and students trying to evacuate. But I want to warn our viewers, this video that we're about to show you is very disturbing. Weve been tracking this part of it for quite some time, but we should show it to you. It sounds like you can hear the shots in the background. Take a watch and know that this is very disturbing to watch.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
YOUNG: Now, that part that we blurred out there seems like there's someone may be down there. You can hear the screaming in the background. We, of course, talked to FSU students who have been shaken by this. This is not the first time there's been a shooting on this campus. Back in 2014, three people were shot back then. So, we know this campus has had a very thorough situation when it comes to knowing how to train for active shooters.
Within about 30 minutes, though, they had the campus locked down just in the last half hour, they've released that lockdown, they've canceled classes. They've also canceled all sporting events there. Leon County, Tallahassee State Capitol, a lot of those federal resources and local resources flooded the scene to make sure this was locked down, and they know there was no second shooter. We're still trying to figure out all the extra details that will hopefully get at that news conference within the next half hour or so -- Kasie.
HUNT: Ryan, thank you very much for that.
John Miller, let me bring you in here to this conversation. Can you help us understand? I know you've been on the phone with your sources all day as we try to get more information here. What are the things that -- what are the answers that you're looking for right now?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, we're going to start off with who was this gunman. And we -- we know the following, police have established his identity, so they know who he is. They're in the process of getting search warrants for his home, wherever he was staying. Any devices, phones, computers, and so on, to try and peel back the layers of what was behind this shooting. We have a lot of experience in covering these stories of, you know, looking at those themes and what led up to these incidents.
We also know the suspect was shot and wounded, fairly early in the incident. We do not know if that shooting was done by police when they arrived or the FSU campus police, or whether it was someone else who had a firearm who was present and able to shoot him.
[16:05:11]
We also know that he is local to Tallahassee. He grew up in the area. Still don't know if he's a student at FSU. And that he is the only shooter. And I say that because in the earliest reports, there were reports of two shooters, three shooters. But, you know, we've come to learn that's very common when you get multiple descriptions.
But it still has to be something that is run down. But having now had investigators get access through the FSU law enforcement people, to the video of -- that they have of the scene. They're very confident that he was the only shooter shooting at students, other than the person who shot him. So that's kind of where we are. Of course, the other steps will be guns have been recovered.
They're tracing serial numbers to determine who those guns were sold to, at what location and what store, what dealer, whether that was the shooter, the shooters family, or someone else who may have sold them to the shooter in a private sale. All of that is unfolding with ATF.
The FBI has responded to the scene, and they're offering the state patrol, the Tallahassee police, the Leon County sheriff, and the FSU police, whatever resources they might need in terms of flying in victim witness specialists to start dealing with the trauma of people who saw things, and students who are involved and family members, evidence collection specialists, if they need that because of the size of the crime scene. And the idea that they would like to get the school back in operation as quickly as possible.
And of course, from the behavioral science unit, literally, the people at the FBI who study these shootings, people who will help them look into the background of the shooter and what was behind this.
HUNT: John, I want to stick with you for a second. And again, we obviously have this new video, this new sound just in here at CNN. I'd like to watch it with you. And I'd really love your perspective on what, if anything, we can learn from what were seeing.
Ryan obviously warned us that this is disturbing. Let's take a look.
MILLER: Sure. (VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HUNT: So, John Miller, you know, when you watch that, we've obviously blurred part of it, does that tell you anything?
MILLER: It tells us that you hear and because -- because of the echoes, it sounds like more. But you hear between 3 and 4 shots being fired in that short time.
Now, that is not to suggest that those were the only shots fired. Thats all you hear on that video. And you see -- well, because we blurred it, you don't see it. And that's probably the right thing to do. But there's a person down on the ground, which means this person may have been moving around outside that building and choosing random targets, which is not uncommon in these things.
And of course, digging into the background of who the shooter was and they've started some of that and they have a couple of indicators about things that he's been involved with in the past that may give them some clues, but that picture is still very grainy right now.
HUNT: Juliette Kayyem, let me bring you into this kind of big picture here. Obviously, John is talking about what law enforcement is looking for, this kind of profile of someone. Obviously, this is something that has become all too common in terms of being breaking news stories that we are covering.
What does this say about where we are?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean, it says that we have made, active shooting cases, in particular ones in schools and universities, sort of standard operating procedures. So, John and I know what we're looking at because this is what the training is focused on. This is how we've educated a generation plus now of students, we call them generation lockdown for a reason. They've gone through these trainings.
You saw the kids, the students, excuse me. You know, with their hands up, they know what to do to -- during an evacuation. The university and college environment for safety reasons just different than K through 12.
You know, this is an open environment. It's a large school students, professors tend not to take attendance. So -- so you don't really know what your pool of potential targets may be. So, part of this unwinding that John was talking about so that they are able to get back to classes is just a determination of sort of, you know, is everyone accounted for?
[16:10:08]
Are they being responsive to parents who are clearly calling or showing up? And then are they providing the services which these colleges and universities now know how to do for guidance and support and companionship during these times? The other interesting or difficult thing about colleges is, is these
are adults, but they're not really adults. Any of us with college aged students know we still feel very invested in their lives. But we don't know where they are minute to minute. And so, they're going to have to process and communicate lots of, lots of family interest, for obvious reasons.
HUNT: Yeah, really, really difficult for all of all of the family members and of course, the students directly impacted.
Juliette Kayyem, John Miller, Ryan Young, thanks very much for being with us. We are going to stay with this story throughout the hour.
But we do have some other breaking news that we are following. The economic rollercoaster and the very public fight that President Trump is now waging against the chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell.
As we came on the air, Wall Street finishing up another bumpy day. The Dow fell another 500 points. And all day today, the markets were on edge over what the president had posted at 6:00 a.m. about the Fed chair. He said Powell's, quote, termination cannot come fast enough. He added an exclamation mark.
And this, of course, tees up the potential firing of the head of the nation's central banking system, a system independent of partisan politics. This is something that Powell has been bracing for since literally hours after Trump was reelected in November. And it's something that the president did not rule out today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, he'll leave. If I ask him to, he'll be out of there.
REPORTER: Some of the president-elect's advisers have suggested that you should resign. If he asked you to leave, would you go?
JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: No.
TRUMP: If I want him out, he'll be out of there real fast, believe me.
REPORTER: Can you follow up on -- do you think that legally you're not required to leave?
POWELL: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Pretty straightforward.
Our panel joins us now. CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams; publisher and editor in chief of "The Cook Political Report", Amy Walter; Democratic strategist, former finance chair for the Harris 2024 presidential campaign, Rufus Gifford; and CNN political commentator, Republican strategist Brad Todd. And we also have with us today Maggie Haberman of "The New York
Times". She is also a CNN political analyst.
Maggie, I want to start with you. I'm very grateful to have you join the show.
"The Wall Street Journal" is just out reporting that were going to attribute the reporting to them here at CNN. We don't have it independently ourselves. But he said, "The Journal" reports that Trump has spoken with Kevin Warsh. He's a former Fed governor, about potentially firing Powell. And then before his term ends and then possibly selecting Warsh to be his replacement.
The reporting says Warsh has advised against firing Powell, argued he should let the Fed chair complete his term without interference. He, of course, has about a year left on it.
I realize, obviously, you know, your reporting maybe in a different place on this, but I'm hoping you can kind of help us understand what has happened between Donald Trump and Jerome Powell that is driving all of this.
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Jerome Powell is not doing what Donald Trump wants, which is to lower rates. Trump is watching -- watching rates get cut elsewhere, and so, Trump is doing what Trump does, which is engage in a pressure campaign publicly. This is going to test the limits of what Trump is able to do.
Now, Kasie, the people that I have spoken to who are in touch with President Trump about this and are having conversations with him about it say he is not imminently going to try to push out Jerome Powell, bearing in mind that this is Donald Trump and things could change day to day.
They are well aware in the White House that the markets are struggling, and they are well aware of what the last two weeks have looked like for this administration. So, while. Trump is frustrated and is going to say this publicly, there is an effort to try to keep him from doing this.
And just again, to note, Kasie, yes. I'm not -- I'm sure he has had some kind of a conversation like that with Kevin Warsh. I'm sure Kevin Warsh advised him, as "The Journal" is reporting, but I do not believe Donald Trump is looking to do this today. He has been talking about firing the Fed chair going back to his first term. It's nothing new.
HUNT: Right. Which is why, of course, Powell felt like he had to come out and say that.
Does Trump feel personally betrayed by Powell? He was asked in the oval today, did he regret appointing him in the first place? Does he?
HABERMAN: Yes. In the way that he ends up regretting appointing everybody who he appoints, who doesn't do exactly what he wants? And when he looks across the government, he doesn't believe that there should be pockets of independence, especially when its people who he has appointed.
But again, there are Supreme Court cases that are ongoing right now related to independent agencies and what the limits of presidential power are. And the White House is mindful of that. And so, while Trump may be personally disappointed, and he made very clear in the Oval Office that he is, I think that this is going to be something of a -- of a line that he will be cautious about crossing.
[16:15:08]
But again, given how unrestrained Trump has been in this term so far, I don't want to suggest that something is -- is not going to happen, but I don't think it is going to happen anytime soon.
HUNT: Really interesting.
Amy Walter, what are the politics of this here? Because, I mean, clearly, they got spooked in the White House by especially the bond market. And its one of the few times we've seen Trump pull back and his, you know, the fact that the truth this morning didn't actually fire Powell outright, may be part of that.
AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER & EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I just read about it today. If you look at for the entirety of Trump 1.0, the one thing he always had going for him, even when his overall approval ratings were -- were very low, was that he got higher approval ratings on the economy. It was that -- it was that great sort of buoying effect where you'd hear over and over from voters.
I don't really like his style. I don't like how reckless he is, but he knows what he's doing on the economy.
HUNT: He's that guy --
WALTER: He's that guy who knows how to do this. For the first time ever now, we are seeing his approval ratings on the economy match his overall approval ratings in that they're both equally underwater.
What people are frustrated about, when you look at what independents are saying right now in polls, is they're willing to give him maybe a little time on this tariff thing. They're not willing to say, right now, this is terrible. It's a disaster. They don't like that prices aren't coming down.
But what they don't like is the way in which he's going at it. Firing Powell is not going to make those folks suddenly feel less anxious.
HUNT: Yeah. Brad Todd, for our viewers who don't know, I mean, you see reams of political data. You do a lot of work to try to get Republicans elected. Is -- it doesn't line up with what Amy is saying?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Voters still give him incredibly high marks on immigration. And they, the Republican voters and independents who voted for him, give him high marks on trade. They're willing to give him some slack and let it work. Which, by the way, that's what Jerome Powell said. You know, the bites
that were taken out of that Economic Club of Chicago speech yesterday didn't include what I thought was the key part. At the very end, he said, you know, we don't know exactly what the tariffs are going to be, how long they're going to last and how they're going to work.
And we're watching and waiting. And so, Donald Trump now is on the clock. He needs to start making deals. Giorgia Meloni from Italy said they're ready to make a deal and they can. If he starts making a deal, deals to lower barriers, we may end up with a freer trade system and that's going to reassure the markets and probably gets us closer to a rate cut.
HUNT: Rufus Gifford, you spend an awful lot of time talking to people who have been very influenced by the markets, who have a lot of money in the markets, who, you know, run and work with businesses.
A lot of these people, lets be candid, were okay with Donald Trump getting elected. They remembered what it was like under Trump one. It seems like there may have been some change of heart. I'm curious what you're hearing from the communities you talk to every day.
RUFUS GIFFORD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, what we're hearing is chaos. And people don't like chaos. Investors don't like chaos. CEOs don't like chaos. And individual Americans don't like chaos. And that's what we're seeing here.
I think a couple of things on this, Kasie. One, what Chairman Powell said yesterday in Chicago, which Trump responded to this morning, is something that virtually every economist out there has said, which is that tariffs are inflationary. And I think everyone has agreed on that. And that's including his treasury secretary before he went full MAGA.
And so that's just -- he's responding to something that is just baked in now, how an authoritarian governs. And Maggie suggested this is that he wants complete control, including over independent agencies. Weve seen him get control over the Republicans in Congress. They've ceded their authority to the president.
And -- but there are still some holdouts, and that is the judiciary. I still believe the judiciary is independent. Let's hope they are. And the Fed.
And I think what you're seeing, the reason why Donald Trump is not going to fire Jerome Powell immediately is because the markets will tank. And I think he's afraid of that.
HUNT: Let me go to Elliot Williams on this too, because Elliot, the other piece of this is that this was considered under Trump one and to the point where Jerome Powell went and asked about what would happen in this case, and he was told that he would have to pay for his own legal defense out of his own pocket. And it was reported, he said he would do that with every last nickel.
How can you help us understand that? ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The president can try to fire Jerome Powell, maybe he will. Now, the rules say that a president can remove a Fed chair for cause. No, that's things like inefficiency, inefficiency, neglect or malfeasance. Now what do those terms mean? Literally, he has to show up drunk to work to get fired. I mean, or intentionally try to tank global markets. Thats what courts and Congress have meant when we talk about things like inefficiency, like malfeasance.
Now, as has been sort of said by Maggie and Rufus, and Brad, certainly Donald Trump has tried to exert more control over independent agencies. And in fact, the Supreme Court right now is considering the very question of, you know, should we relax the rules on the president being able to remove the heads of independent agencies? Maybe the Fed will be one. This is a legal fight brewing if it does happen.
HUNT: Maggie Haberman as we sort of consider this, and rufus used the word authoritarian, one of the big themes, and I know you wrote about this a few days ago for "The New York Times" is one of retribution, right?
And in your story which was actually focused on Letitia James, the attorney general of New York and real estate, you noted that during the first several months of his second term, Trump has mostly avoided using the justice system to target his enemies. But last week, you said he signed presidential memos singling out officials who opposed him during his first term, directing his agencies to scrutinize their actions. The U.S. attorney in New Jersey said she was going to open investigation into that state's governor.
And then I want to play for you. This is something that Lisa Murkowski, the senator from Alaska, said. It actually happened a few days ago, but the video has just been circulating today. I want to play it for you and well talk about it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): We are all afraid, okay? It's going to say I'm -- I'm oftentimes very anxious myself about using my voice because retaliation is real. And that's not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That quote she used, Maggie, we are all afraid. Is that fear justified?
HABERMAN: Look, she's saying something that you have heard senators say over time, privately. And most vocally. Frankly, Kasie, around the January 6th Senate impeachment trial of Donald Trump, which I think was in February of 20 -- February of 2021 was when the trial itself took place. January 6th was obviously the event and the attack on the capitol by a pro-Trump mob.
You had some senators who were afraid that they were going to see their families targeted. And so, you know, is her -- I can't speak for how she -- why she feels afraid or is it justified, but it is certainly something that we hear over and over again. I would say that Congress and the Senate, the House and the Senate are co-equal branches of the government, and they represent constituents.
And if they have concerns, you know what? What would seem to be keeping them from speaking out is, you know, maybe its personal fears, but in a lot of cases, its fears of them losing their jobs. And that's sort of a different issue than fear of personal safety or something else.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean, that is that's absolutely taken, I guess, when I -- when I was asking, is it justified? It's just you noted in your story that there seems to have been this evolution for Trump himself, right, that there has been this change. I think my question is, is there really a marked difference in his behavior here? And do you think that you see a willingness on his part to go after people in a -- in a new way?
HABERMAN: Oh, sure. Look, I mean, this was Jonathan Swan and Mike Schmidt and Charlie Savage and I wrote about this. Theres -- I don't think there's been an evolution in terms of what Trump would like to use the levers of government for. I think there has been an evolution in terms of how he is using the levers of government and how streamlined and centralized it is within the White House.
So, you know, instead of using his Twitter feed or having phone calls with Jeff Sessions, as we saw in 2017, you had in the Oval Office last week, Donald Trump signing presidential memoranda targeting two individuals who had worked in the first Trump administration, one of whom because he disagreed that the election was stolen and spoke openly about that. And that is a line crossed that we had not seen before. And what that portends for the future, we shall see.
HUNT: All right. Maggie Haberman, so grateful to have you on the show. I really appreciate it. And I do hope that you come back soon.
All right. We are going to continue to follow the breaking news. This mass shooting on Florida State University's campus officials getting set to give an update. In the next half hour. We will bring that to you live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:28:11]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We do have breaking news, of course, this afternoon we are waiting for a briefing from Florida law enforcement officials in Tallahassee after that mass shooting at Florida State University, where five people have been injured. Again, this is supposed to start about 4:30 p.m. We're going to keep an eye on it. We'll bring it to you live as soon as those officials come to those microphones.
But we do have other breaking news that we're following today. An appeals court ruling this afternoon that a federal judge does have the authority to make the Trump administration provide evidence that they are, in fact, making an effort to return the mistakenly deported Maryland man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, from El Salvador. The appeals court also denying the DOJ's request to halt an order that required it to facilitate Abrego Garcia return.
Prior to the ruling, Trump said this about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, I'm not involved in it. I'm going to respond by saying, you'll have to speak to the lawyers, the DOJ, but you'll have to speak to the lawyers because its up to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining us now is Rina Gandhi. She's an immigration attorney representing Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a partner at Murray Osorio PLLC.
Rina, thanks very much for joining us.
I'll start by just asking you directly. Have you seen any evidence that the government is trying to get Mr. Abrego Garcia back?
RINA GANDHI, ATTORNEY FOR KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA: And that's why we have to make this move for discovery to see what exactly have they done? Because they've certainly shown nothing.
HUNT: Rina, we, of course, have also seen the administration talk about Mr. Abrego Garcia and point to evidence out there about his past as they try to respond to this.
[16:30:02]
There was a domestic violence filing that the Department of Homeland Security put out yesterday that showed that his wife asked for a protective order against her husband in 2021. Now, his wife said yesterday things did not escalate. I decided not to follow through with the civil court process. We were able to work through the situation privately as a family. She says no one's perfect. No marriage is perfect.
What -- what did -- was Mr. Abrego Garcia's reaction to this becoming part of the public record?
GANDHI: Well, we have no idea because no one has been able to speak with him, right? I also think we need to not be distracted by the issue at hand. Whether Mr. Abrego Garcia has any kind of past, has never been proven, has never been before a court. As of now, there are no convictions. The government themselves admit that.
They, in a move I've never seen before, released his immigration records. And on his IT13, it specifically says no criminal history, right? I also want to point to --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Can you confirm -- does he have any criminal history? And do you dispute his alleged ties to MS-13?
GANDHI: I mean, absolutely. You know, he has not been found guilty of anything. He has no criminal history. The government's own records show that, right?
And, you know, his hearing back in 2019 went over this issue. It was the Trump administration. They did not appeal the grant of withholding of removal, and they chose to release him then.
HUNT: All right.
GANDHI: I also want to mention the Fourth Circuit's decision, saying, you know, the government asserts that Abrego Garcia is a terrorist and a member of MS-13. Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Regardless, he is still entitled to due process. And that's the key point. Thats the key issue. Bring him back and then let's put it all out there. Let's have the hearing.
HUNT: All right. Rina, I'd love to speak with you more, but unfortunately, we do have to cut our time together at short. That news conference in Florida is underway about the mass shooting. Watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- to a local hospital. The two deceased are not students. The shooter is believed to be a current FSU student. I do not have additional information on the shooter's identity at this time.
Students who need assistance can go to the Donald L. Tucker Center, where the university is providing counseling, health care, and other support services. Family members are also able to go to the Tucker Center for assistance. Students, faculty and staff are asked to call their loved ones as soon as possible to update them on their status.
The Student Union and the surrounding area is still considered an active crime scene. Individuals should avoid the area.
Students should not return to the student union to retrieve personal property at this time.
Students may return to their residence halls, but they should otherwise stay indoors on main campus to allow first responders and university staff to do their jobs and respond to those needing assistance. Students may depart campus for the weekend. All classes have been canceled through Friday.
Before I turn this over to Chief Revell, I want to thank all the brave men and women of the FSUPD for responding immediately to the scene.
I also want to thank the responding agencies who have provided assistance to FSU today big time, including the Tallahassee police department, the Leon County sheriff's office, the Florida highway patrol, Leon County Emergency Medical Services, FDLE and all other responding agencies today. We really appreciate your support.
Thats all the information I have at this time. We'll have additional update for you later today.
Chief Revell?
CHIEF LAWRENCE REVELL, TALLAHASSEE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Good afternoon. I am Chief Revell with the Tallahassee Police Department.
As the shooting occurred today, our officers, as well as every single other officer in this city and county, responded immediately to this scene. Once on scene and once we began working through what was occurring and what we were working, in consultation with FSU, Tallahassee Police Department was asked to take lead on this. So, we will be the lead for this investigation, and both the officer involved shooting portion of this, as well as the homicide portion of this.
I will come up after the last speaker and entertain just a few questions, but needless to say, we have multiple crime scenes.
[16:35:00]
This is a very large area we're covering. We have thousands, hundreds of thousands or hundreds or thousands of witnesses.
And again, this is an active, ongoing investigation. So, the information that we will be allowed to release right now may be fairly limited. I'll answer what I can at that time, but I will assure you that as soon as we can, any information that becomes available, we will make that available to you.
One of the things in the process, and again, understand that this is an ongoing active investigation. So, things are happening as we are standing here and as we are speaking, we have identified the shooter. Obviously, he's at the hospital.
So, with more on that, I'm going to allow the sheriff to come up and speak on that portion of it.
SHERIFF WALTER MCNEIL, LEON COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Thank you, Chief.
As Chief Revell indicated, I'm Walter McNeil, Leon County sheriff.
First and foremost, let me express our gratitude to the responding law enforcement agencies in this community. Our citizens should feel some degree of comfort knowing that your law enforcement agencies are going to respond and do exactly what we did in this case, that is, bring the offender to justice, and to make sure that we do what we can, to make sure we lock him or her up.
Let me say to you, this is obviously a heinous crime. Our deepest condolences go out to the FSU family, the families of the students who are here, and we understand that you all have been devastated because of this person's actions.
The question as relates to who is the shooter -- the shooter is 20- year-old Phoenix Ikner. And he's a son of a Leon County sheriff deputy. Our deputy, Deputy Ikner, has been with the Leon County sheriff's office for over 18 years. She has a tremendous job that she's done. Her service to this community has been exceptional.
Unfortunately, her son had access to one of her weapons. And that was one of the weapons that was found at the scene. And we are continuing that investigation into how that weapon was used and what other weapons perhaps he may have had access to.
The alleged shooter was also a longstanding member of the Leon County sheriff's office citizen advisory or youth advisory council. So, he has been steeped in the Leon County sheriff's office family, engaged in a number of training programs that we have. So, it's not a surprise to us that he had access to weapons.
This event is tragic in more ways than you people in the audience could ever fathom from a law enforcement perspective. But I will tell you this. We will make sure that we do everything we can to prosecute and make sure that we send a message to folks that this will never be tolerated here in Leon County. And I dare say, across this state and across this nation. Thank you.
Let me bring up the FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Hubert Reynolds.
HUBERT REYNOLDS, FBI ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Good afternoon. My name is Hubert Reynolds and I'm the acting special agent in charge of the Jacksonville field office.
I want to echo those standing with me. What a horrific crime this is. And we stand with you fully. We have an office here in Tallahassee, and we are fully engaged with providing any resources that we can bring to bear to help with this investigation moving forward.
We've established a digital tips media line where you can upload photos, videos prior to and during the incident. If you're there from social media, please upload all of that. I will give you now the website address. You can upload any tips to www.fbi.gov/fsushooting. Again, that's www.fbi.gov/fsushooting.
I want to assure you that we are going to bring every available resource to be able to help the community and the local people here. Thank you.
RICHARD D. MCCULLOUGH, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Richard McCullough, the president of Florida State University.
This is a tragic day for Florida state university.
[16:40:00]
We are absolutely heartbroken by the violence that occurred on our campus earlier today. Two have died. Five other innocents are being treated for their injuries. We're working to support the victims, their families and everyone affected by this traumatic event.
I just returned from the hospital with the first lady, and I met some of her students who were the victims. We, our hearts go out to our students and the victims of this -- of this terrible tragedy.
I have to say that our law enforcement -- law enforcement, our FSU police officers are absolute heroes in this regard. The call went out. Someone called it in, and immediately they responded to the scene and immediately neutralized the suspect and prevented this from being a bigger tragedy. I want to thank them so much for what they do to try to keep our students safe.
I want to thank all the law enforcement partners, FSU Police, Tallahassee Police, Leon County Sheriff's Department, Florida Highway Patrol, and Florida Department of Law enforcement and all other responding agencies for their rapid and courageous response.
I want to thank everybody that came out for -- came out to visit with the students and to help us and to be here today for this press conference. And I appreciate so much the support that you're all providing to our university and to our students.
We're fully cooperating with the investigation, and we defer to law enforcement as they continue their work.
I'd also like to thank all the health care providers at Tallahassee Memorial Hospital. They're treating and providing outstanding care to our victims.
Right now, our top -- top priority is safety and well-being for all the people and our campus. As it was said, classes are canceled on the main campus today and tomorrow, and all FSU athletics events on Tallahassee are canceled through Sunday. We also want to tell you that counseling and psychological services are available to students, faculty and staff, and anyone that needs that should call 850-644- 2003.
Were also providing support for faculty and staff through our employee assistance program. And so, if you need any help, please, please reach out.
We'll continue to communicate with the campus community as -- as we know more. This is a deeply emotional time, but we're all here to support each other. We're going to do everything we can to support our community.
We're a strong and united community. We're family. And so we'll take care of all of you. And we'll get through this together. Thank you.
REVELL: All right. At this time, we will take a few questions. Let me just reiterate, this was a massive response, a massive response of law enforcement personnel. Our federal, state and local partners have continued to build relationships that long preceded this event. And that came into great play today in the seamless way that we all came together to work these events.
But I know you'll have some specific questions. I will tell you right now, we are not going to talk about the victims, other than the fact that there are six of them. Two -- two additional deceased and then the suspect. So, nine total persons. Nine total persons. Yes, sir.
REPORTER: Have you all been able to talk to the suspect at all? Any idea about motive?
REVELL: The suspect invoked his rights not to speak to us.
REPORTER: Chief, do we know if the weapon that was used was his parent's service weapon? And if so, what are the rules around storing service weapons?
REVELL: Right. No, that's -- that's a good question. This weapon was a weapon that the deputy previously used. A lot of times, many agencies, mine included, when we transition to a new handgun, the officers are allowed to purchase the handgun they used prior.
And correct me if I'm wrong, sheriff, but I believe that's the case here. This was a handgun that that deputy used prior to them transitioning to a new handgun. And so, it was her personal handgun.
REPORTER: She on put on leave, or --
REVELL: The sheriff would have to speak to that.
MCNEIL: We will do a thorough investigation to look at all aspects of it.
[16:45:00]
There's no cause right now that we're aware of that would require her to be placed on any kind of suspension or otherwise.
REVELL: Yes, ma'am.
REPORTER: We've been hearing stuff that it was a deputy who was a school resource officer. Is that true?
REVELL: That is correct.
REPORTER: Chief, are those injured was killed? Are any of those members of law enforcement?
REVELL: I'm sorry?
REPORTER: And anyone who died in the shooting or was injured in the shooting for any of the members of law enforcement, whether it be.
REVELL: No, they were not. They were not.
Yes, sir?
REPORTER: When law enforcement arrived, did the suspect engage with them or did you surrender immediately?
REVELL: No. They -- they challenged him and ended up shooting. He did not comply with -- with commands and was shot. I do not believe he fired at officers.
REPORTER: -- Phoenix may be autistic. Are you able to confirm that detail?
REVELL: I do not have that detail.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
REVELL: I'm sorry?
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
REVELL: We're not releasing any of the victim information at this time.
REPORTER: Was the office (ph) aware of any behavioral conditions or concerns or threats prior to this incident?
REVELL: We were not.
REPORTER: How quickly did officers arrive on scene from the call to engage the suspect?
REVELL: We will get you that information. I don't have that currently. I assume that would be a question that was asked, but -- I mean, it was almost immediately that that FSU, obviously, this is their campus and they patrol it very well. So, they were on scene almost immediately, engaged almost immediately. And then everyone else again was a massive, very quick response.
REPORTER: I know you said that the two deceased were not students. Do we know of those five that were injured or any of them students?
REVELL: Again, we're not releasing any information on the students at this, on the victims at this point.
REPORTER: Specifically, what firearm did he use?
REVELL: I'm sorry?
REPORTER: What kind of firearm was he using?
REVELL: It was a handgun. I don't know what type of handgun that was. It was a -- probably a 40. Don't -- I don't know.
Yeah.
REPORTER: Chief, I heard it reported that a shotgun was also recovered on campus. Was that used in the shooting?
REVELL: We do know that he had a shotgun with him. We have not confirmed anyone was shot with a shotgun at this point, but again, that that could change as we -- again, there are hundreds and hundreds of witnesses. And as we piece all of this back together, information will come to light that we may not have at this point.
So, I do not have -- I do not believe so at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll take one more question.
(CROSSTALK)
REPORTER: -- logs be released in the near future.
REVELL: I'm sorry. Say again?
REPORTER: Will there be any bodycam footage or radio dispatch logs or incident reports being released anytime soon?
REVELL: We will work with the state attorneys office, which we always do. And in pulling together all the information, all the investigative evidence from this case and then collaboration with State Attorney Campbell, we will make that determination. Obviously, after the case is over, we will certainly it all becomes available at that point.
But as to what we can and will release at that point, like I said before, we were very open and transparent on these things. Again, the officers did an incredible job. But again, some of this is very horrific.
This is a horrific incident. And so, we will again collaborate with the state attorneys office and determine which of that evidence could be released or will not be released. But again, I will let you know that as soon as we make that determination.
So, thank you all very much. Appreciate you being here.
And just let me reiterate what's already been said. The collaboration between all of the agencies, the federal, the state, the local, all of our first responders, our EMS personnel, our fire department, again, just a massive response, immediate treatment to the victims that were there, the transport of them.
Again, it was a very seamless, seamless response to this tragedy. And that goes to the training that we all do repeatedly, individually, as agencies and together. The incident command came together very, very quickly. And again, I could not be more proud of the response and more horrified at the act. So, thank you very much.
REPORTER: Can you please just real quick verify that one more time, the number of people injured and dead, our number was eight --
REVELL: Sure. Total number of nine. And that includes the suspect. So, there are six victims that are injured, two victims that are dead, and one suspect. And that's -- let me just reiterate this because I'm not sure we said this. We have no reason to believe at this point that he did not act alone. So, there is no further threat to our community at this point.
So, thank you very much.
HUNT: All right. We have been watching the news conference from local, state and federal law enforcement officials in response to the mass shooting at Florida State University today.
[16:50:08]
You heard just there the officers telling us an updated injury and death count, six people injured, two dead, as well as, of course, the suspect also injured.
John Miller is with us now.
John, the other really striking piece of what we learned from that press conference just now is that the gun allegedly used in this shooting actually belonged to a Leon County sheriff's deputy. We were told that she has been on the force for 18 years there. The Leon County sheriff said at this point, there's no reason to place her on administrative leave. He described it as a personal handgun, not the service weapon.
What stands out to you from what we heard there from officials? And what are you focusing on?
MILLER: Well, we learned an awful lot, some of which we knew and we're waiting for authorities to confirm, but that the suspect is named Phoenix Ikner, that he is 20 years old and that his mom or stepmom were still trying to clear that up, is an 18-year veteran of the sheriffs department and a school resource officer, which means part of her law enforcement career was to make sure that schools were safe from this exact kind of thing.
This was her former service weapon, according to the Tallahassee chief and the Leon County sheriff, she transitioned, they believe, to another weapon, and that this weapon was kept in the house. Interestingly, we also learned that her son, 20-year-old Phoenix Ikner, was not just the son of a deputy sheriff who was part of a team that kept schools safe, but was also a member of the sheriff's department youth advisory board, which meant that as an extension of his mother, he was involved in getting youth involved with the sheriffs department in various programs and trainings for other citizens.
Now, the question that came around was, at a time when we've seen parents where guns have been used in other school shootings in at least two states face prosecution and felony charges, what does that mean to this deputy sheriff? In this case, there were certain differences, and it is very early, so we don't know.
But one of the things the sheriff told us was, regardless of her status, they are going to make sure this case is fully prosecuted. I believe in that context. He was referring to the suspect who was wounded when he was shot by someone during this incident. But that's going to raise the specter of what are the rules and laws about gun storage and what are the departments policies for deputies about gun storage?
The difference here, of course, is this is not a high school student. This is not a child. This is a 20-year-old individual who is the son of a law enforcement officer who has been around guns in the house and is technically an adult. So we'll have to see where that goes. But the question has already surfaced.
HUNT: It has indeed. And actually, Elliot Williams is here with us as well. The lawyer on our panel.
And, Elliot, I know you've been looking into this a little bit. And as John points out, it is still early. We want to make sure we frame it that way. But how do you see this so far?
WILLIAMS: I think what I'm seeing is Florida does have a safe storage law, but that's really for the protection of minors. And as John had noted here, this is an adult, someone over the age of 16, as it would be in Florida. So, he had access to the firearm there.
So, I don't see her charged with a misdemeanor here. Again, who knows what happens?
Now, certainly, she's not put on administrative leave yet. However, there is the specter of if -- if this is someone who works for the sheriffs, you know, she's a sheriff's deputy and is not securing her firearms properly at home, I am speculating, I do not know what went on in the house, just putting it out there. But if that is the case, there's certainly employment sanctions that could come. But I'm not seeing a crime she could be charged with right now based on what we know.
HUNT: And, Amy, I mean, this is really the reason this question is coming up so quickly. There is this broader push for more accountability as, of course, you know, Congress has really failed to do anything about this on a broad level, writing new gun laws is really hard. People are looking for a way to hold people accountable.
WALTER: Right. And in this case, where you have, you know, this is so hard because we're speculating. We don't know anything about this young man -- what sort of state he may have been in, what his past relationship was with his mother, with the campus, with any of that.
[16:55:02]
I think it is understandable that there is a frustration from Americans that this continues to be part of our daily lives, and that if there aren't laws to be held that are going to change this, if there aren't new rules or a changes in the way that guns are regulated, then there. This may be the only way for people to feel as if they're making a difference.
HUNT: Brad Todd?
TODD: Well, Florida law doesn't allow you to carry a gun on campus, so he was violating a law before he ever pulled the trigger. And that's the challenge. You can't legislate someone to not do bad things to other people.
We still don't know much. We don't know his state of mind. We don't know his motive. We don't know his health or his emotional stability. All of those things are going to tell us a lot more. HUNT: Ryan Young, I want to bring you into this conversation because
you have a little bit more information about the deputy in question. What have you learned?
YOUNG: Yeah, I do. The sheriff's department is really gutted by this. The resource officer was the school resource officer of the year. People love her in this community. The sheriff has been in place since 2017, and there's a lot of focus now, of course, on the guns. And you talked about that former service weapon that was found at the scene.
There are also two other guns that were found at the scene, that shotgun and another handgun in the car. And with him being a student, you could feel the pain in the room, especially from the Florida state president just talking about the idea of trying to heal this campus.
But when they got there on scene, within seconds, those Florida state officers were able to approach him. And when he didn't comply, he was shot. And I think the other thing that stood out to me is he was responsive enough at the hospital not to speak with investigators as they tried to figure out this motive.
But so many more questions, especially about the guns and what led up to this, his social media presence is being scrubbed as we speak. The clubs that he was involved in, all that is leading toward sort of a nexus about why this may have happened.
HUNT: Really remarkable. I mean, Elliott, the sort of the detail about not speaking with law enforcement officers, I mean, that is a statement about presence of mind.
WILLIAMS: Absolutely. It's a statement about presence of mind. It is always wise for someone who could potentially be accused or charged with a crime to not speak with law enforcement officers. You know, even -- even when it's a heinous act or one that sort of is not popular with the public. So it is, but it is a notion of presence of mind that he knows.
Well, look, I could be in trouble here. I am conscious of the fact that I might have committed. But again, let's be clear. This is his right, and we should not punish anyone or hold anyone accountable who might be charged with a crime or accused of a crime, even of, you know, pausing before speaking to police.
HUNT: Certainly. And, you know, I will say, Rufus Gifford, I was listening to an interview with one of the students who was, you know, on campus at this time and what the message that he had was. Spirituality is important. We're obviously all praying right now, but the thoughts and prayers are not enough in these situations.
GIFFORD: It's just heartbreaking, Kasie, right? I mean, we all remember where we were when we learned about Columbine, and it was shocking, absolutely shocking. Didn't happen here. Now it happens all the time.
This is I think we've had more than 100 mass shootings in the United States this year, exponentially more than every other country in the world. And yet we continue to do nothing. It's heartbreaking, and we should all be heartbroken by it.
HUNT: Juliette Kayyem, let's -- let's finish up talking with you a little bit about this. I mean, one -- one thing that unfortunately has been a feature of some of our worst tragedies as a country have been in instances where law enforcement failed to protect the population, whether it was in Uvalde or in Parkland, it really seems like here today, we have a horrible tragedy, but at least there seem to be some heroes in the story, some people who helped make this, you know, much better than or -- I shouldn't say much better than, who made sure that this wasn't much worse.
KAYYEM: That's exactly right. And we heard a lot about that unity of effort and incident command. But I'm on here a lot criticizing the lack of transparency of police departments. So, it's time to really applaud in this horror. What we just saw and what is the responsibility of public safety, even with the atmospherics of speculation and politics and gun control, a dignified, respectful, fact specific press conference that provided information that was clearly not good for them.
I mean, this is -- this is their police department, or at least the sheriffs police department that he said they said that the suspect was a member of the family. And I think it's really important that we highlight that as well, because that goes very far to let communities under tremendous stress, under social stress, and everyone watching to feel like that this is when we need government to work.
And so, as part of what we're learning today is that transparency that should really be applauded as well.
HUNT: That's a very, very good important point.
Juliette Kayyem, our panel, thanks very much.
Do stay with us.
"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
