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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Stocks Mixed As U.S. Economy Shrinks Amid Abrupt Trump Policy Shifts; Trump Blaming Biden As Economy Shrinks For First Time Since COVID; Sources: Rubio & Bukele Have Been Directly In Touch About Man Mistakenly Deported; Harris Hours Away From Speech On Trump's First 100 Days. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 30, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: It is kind of cute.
I have two notes. One, it looks like they're eating glizzies. Just cut up hot dogs, which is nice.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah. Delicious.
SANCHEZ: Secondly, are the zookeepers prepared to offer that little vulture therapy, given how weird that puppet looks? It looks a little bit odd.
KEILAR: You know, everyone thinks their mother is beautiful. So if he thinks that's his mom, it's just no problem, right?
SANCHEZ: Poor little guy. I got a guy. We'll connect.
KEILAR: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Is it the Trump economy or the Biden economy?
Let's head into THE ARENA.
The president trying to shift blame to his predecessor after the U.S. economy was thrown into reverse for the first time in years, due in large part to Trump's tariffs. The markets reacting right now.
Plus, CNN has learned that Secretary of State Marco Rubio has been in touch with the Salvadoran president about the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. President Trump now admitting he could bring the mistakenly deported Maryland man home if he wanted to.
And Kamala Harris is getting ready to share her most extensive take yet on the Trump presidency. Will her voice be heard above other Democrats vying to lead their party out of the political wilderness?
(MUSIC)
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
And as we come on the air, we are waiting for President Trump to appear with top American CEOs as he tries to convince Americans that the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad economic news is not, in fact, his fault.
The markets mixed at the closing bell just moments ago. Now, this might not be quite the reaction that some of you would have expected after the news we had this morning, when we learned that the U.S. economy just had its worst quarter since the COVID slowdown back in 2022.
So, GDP, which is of course, the big picture measurement of our economic growth was get this negative last quarter. It plunged from 2.4 percent growth in the last quarter of the Biden administration. So why aren't the markets totally panicking today?
Well, according to our crack CNN business editor, David Goldman, it's because that news was so much worse than what investors expected that those investors think the Federal Reserve is now much more likely to lower interest rates to save us all from economic doom. And that move would help the markets.
Of course, this is our first big picture look at what Trump's tariffs are doing to the U.S. economy. Naturally, Donald Trump is blaming Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's Biden. That's not Trump. Because we came in on January, this is a quarterly numbers. And we came in and I was very -- against everything that Biden was doing in terms of the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So that -- those remarks came after Trump wrote online earlier today, quote, this is Bidens stock market, not Trump's.
So who is actually responsible for what we're seeing now, today?
Don't take my word for it. Let's take a look at what Dave Portnoy -- yes, the Barstool Sports president/chief bro, who helped Trump win -- Dave Portnoy wrote online about this today. And I quote, what's that old expression? Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. Well, that applies here.
The stock market is a direct reflection of Trump's first 100 days in office. Doesn't mean it won't get better and that we don't need to be patient. But this is his market, not Biden's, end quote. Fair enough.
Let's also be clear. Donald Trump is taking full responsibility for the increase in prices that are going to result from his tariffs. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: They made $1 trillion with Biden, $1 trillion, even $1.1 trillion with Biden selling this stuff. Much of it we don't need. You know, somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to be open. Maybe the children will have two dolls instead of $30, you know, and maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, as a -- as a political campaign reporter, I'm sorry, what? The president of the United States is literally telling children that they are going to have fewer toys, and he is telling their parents that the toys are going to be more expensive.
I understand the president says he is making a long term play here with these tariffs, and it's true that many of Trump's most loyal supporters are telling us that they may give him some time, some time to let this work. But remember what happened the last time a president asked his voters for economic sacrifice? Do you remember how the politics of that worked out for Jimmy Carter?
[16:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So tonight, I'm proposing a new program, one which will call on all Americans to sacrifice once again. I'm asking each and every American to take 8 percent of your money and burn it.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Because, again, whether its credit or whether it's blame, you don't have to take my word for it. A couple of weeks ago, I asked Louisiana Republican Senator John Kennedy this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Do you think it's Donald Trump's economy now?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Oh, I think it is. There's no question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: No question.
My panel joins us now, CNN anchor chief domestic correspondent Phil Mattingly, CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel, CNN political commentator Xochitl Hinojosa, and former Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much for being here.
I want to get to the politics of why a president would just tell kids they're not going to have as many toys and their parents that they're going to be more expensive in just a second. But, Phil, I want to start with you to kind of really fully understand
what we saw play out today. And obviously, David Goldman has given us some really good guidance and help us understand why you can get a really tough report on GDP, have the markets react or not, the way that they have.
And some of it also involves the possibility for inflation and the word that no one wants to use, which also applies to Jimmy Carter, which is stagflation. What -- what do you think we should be really focusing on today?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Honestly, when you look at the contraction rate which again, was -- was certainly worse than people were expecting, economists and I think the administration as well, when you actually dig under the hood, the biggest takeaway is the economy leading up to April 2nd was in a solid place, and that has been the case in pretty much every economic indicator and data point we've seen over the course of the last several months.
But we -- it is unequivocally the case that the contraction, that the record scale of imports, the massive surge of imports, the kind of pullback in consumer spending that certainly tracks with consumer sentiment surveys that we've seen over the course of the last couple of weeks, it is 100 percent entirely because of Donald Trump's actions, his choice, his decision. He campaigned on it. But to completely reorient the entire global trade system.
So pinning this on somebody else doesn't actually work. And his advisers are actually backing that up because they are taking credit for the private investment, which has been, very significant. I think the real concern, just to kind of try and put a button on this so I don't go for three hours.
HUNT: We know you can.
MATTINGLY: Since I certainly can -- is the uncertainty remains. Inflation is still while its not as bad as it was by any means, it is still a very real threat. And the lack of growth and the very real concerns that you hear the business community and with consumers right now is nothing but a bad combination when no one knows what's going to happen next.
HUNT: Jamie Gangel, were you surprised to hear that the top politicians say, hey kids, you're going to have fewer toys, hey, parents, they're going to be more expensive?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: As I say to my children, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it does not make it so. Look, this is -- as Phil said, this is not Biden's economy. This is Trump's economy, no matter how many times he says it or posts it. And Phil will explain to us why we can't technically call it a recession yet, but when I -- because we need a second quarter and then we'll look back, and -- but everyone I spoke to Wall Street, business leaders, that's what they're expecting a recession.
I think beyond the bad politics of it, because fear and uncertainty is not good for the economy, and it's not good for a politician. We have to remind people that even if all of these tariffs work out, it would take 5 to 10 years to bring these jobs back. Question whether Americans want all of these jobs will business leaders take the gamble of making these kinds of investments when they're looking at something 5 or 10 years out, or are they going to ride Trump out?
HUNT: Bill Stepien I just -- I keep coming back to this, this question because, I mean, clearly, we've seen him say over and over again, it's Bidens market, it's Bidens market, it's Bidens market. But he does want credit for what's going on with the tariffs. And he's taking full credit for that.
I mean, he said there in the Oval Office, Biden was doing this thing. I'm doing this other thing. And yes, your toys may get more expensive. You may have fewer of them.
If you were advising him, would you be telling him to talk about it like this?
BILL STEPIEN, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: As a parent with kids with birthdays coming up, I appreciate lower expectations for toys.
(LAUGHTER)
MATTINGLY: Good point.
STEPIEN: Look, the GDP is a math equation. As imports go up, GDP goes down, and businesses were rushing to meet, you know, to beat the tariff deadlines, 41 percent historic amount of imports this past quarter.
[16:10:00]
So there really shouldn't be surprised here. And I can recite the Republican talking points about core GDP being up and private investments, as you said.
MATTINGLY: Which are true.
STEPIEN: True. But the problem is there's a lot of trade talking. There's no trade dealing right? Deals are going to be done, done, done. Heard that this weekend, 90 deals in 90 days. Not done.
Until that gets done, until Trump's advisers actually get deals done, every report, every quarter, every month, Trump's going to be on defense.
HUNT: Xochitl?
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Trump can only blame Joe Biden for so long. And this is actually laughable. It wasn't Joe Biden that put uncertainty in the economy. It wasn't Joe Biden that decided to put tariffs in place and try to send the economy into total chaos. It was Trump.
And I think that he believes that he can tell people, listen, this whole short term pain is his message to the American people. But when does that end? And he there is no end in sight.
And to your point, this might be five, 10 years down the road. We're not sure if businesses -- actually, we don't even know if it's five or 10 years down the road. And he's caused so much uncertainty and businesses don't even know how to plan, so it almost makes it impossible to for Trump to highlight success because what does success look like at this point?
So I think that if you are a member of Congress on the Hill right now, Republican member of Congress in a tough district, I'd be going to the White House and saying, you have got to give us some certainty that we are going to be able to help the American people, that were -- they're going to see some benefits from the tariffs, because right now, people are hurting, and I'm not sure that they're going to be okay with that in a few months.
HUNT: CNN's Jeff Zeleny is standing by for us at the White House with a little bit more on this.
Because, of course, Jeff, we are waiting for the president to appear with these CEOs. The event is tagged, you know, invest in America, because, of course, this is the long-term play that the White House says they're trying to make, right? Get people to pull their manufacturing back to the United States. But can you kind of bring us behind the scenes in terms of how much nervousness there is about this short-term pain? Because it looks like it's about to hit us in the face.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, Kasie, it's very interesting. I mean, the presidents challenges are clear. Last night in Michigan as he celebrated his 100th day, he was talking about the golden age of the economy. But today, he's bracing people for the potential of empty store shelves.
And the doll example that you talked about, I think it is so interesting. Yes, it was a bit flippant, but we're not talking dolls here. We're talking about other empty store shelves. And that is one of the things that last week, if you remember, really got to the president when he was had his about face on what he's been talking about, about the Federal Reserve chair, Jerome Powell.
That came after he sort of withdrew his calls for him to be fired and replacing him. That came after the president met with CEOs, the Walmart CEO and others, who warned of a deep economic fallout here. So, behind the scenes, there is a mixed message. And the easiest way to sort of soothe the president's apprehension is to talk about Joe Biden.
I was struck by watching the cabinet meeting, secretary after secretary after secretary said what President Trump wanted to hear, and many were blaming things on Biden. But I am told that the president is intensifying his pressure on his own economic team to cut some type of deals soon on, you know, the tariffs with allies, with the South Korea, with others to have some type of a win.
But no doubt, behind the scenes, there is apprehension about the economy. There is just no question. And not just this GDP report, other metrics as well.
HUNT: Yeah, Jeff, I mean, you know, for -- obviously, you're standing in front of the White House, but, you know, you and I first met in -- it was probably either Iowa or New Hampshire. I'll be quite candid. I don't remember because campaigns are such a blur.
But you've been in this business a long time. Youve seen what it takes to win a political campaign. Obviously, Trump won this presidential campaign, but there's going to be a midterm campaign. Theres going to be another presidential campaign in four years.
Can I just ask you to put your political analysis hat on for a second? I mean, I guess as a long-time political reporter, I never thought I would see a president just sit there and say, yeah, what I did is going to make your toys more expensive and you're going to have less of them.
ZELENY: Look, I mean, that is certainly a blunt message, but I think it's a metaphor for you know, one thing he's been saying, sort of a crescendo effect of there will be short term pain.
But again, the doll -- it was more flippant to me when I heard it. He was saying, basically, Americans don't need all this stuff. You don't need 30 dolls.
HUNT: Well, as a parent of small children, I actually am not sure I disagree with that premise necessarily, but --
ZELENY: And maybe that's why he said it. But I think the bigger question is lumber on shelves, is bolts on shelves, are the things that are needed to make businesses run and the economy running.
[16:15:03]
So I think the president is saying there, I think we will remember that for a while, but I think it's the underlying aspect of so much more. Thats a deeper concern, because the images of empty store shelves, because of what we're talking about here, is a disruption in the supply chain. Thats what we're talking about.
HUNT: Yeah.
ZELENY: And that's what the president's, you know, one of the potentials of the trade war would be.
I'm actually curious, Kasie, if President Trump went out into America and asked Americans to sacrifice, he could have used his speech in Michigan last night to do so for 90 minutes, though it was much more backward-looking than it was forward-looking.
I actually think Americans would be willing to sacrifice a bit on the economy if he would ask them to, but this blame Biden sort of confuses that message. But one thing is clear, he wants more time on the economy, and that is never anything we heard on the campaign trail. It wasn't, oh, give me six months and I'll lower prices. It was, elect me now, and I'll do it on day one. HUNT: On day one. Absolutely. Day one.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you as always. Really appreciate it.
ZELENY: You bet.
HUNT: Phil Mattingly, to this point about the supply chain and empty shelves, I mean, the thing that we keep hearing about, it's a little hard to quantify or capture or show pictures of, but the container ships are not coming from China with all of these goods. And these are the types of goods President Trump says, well, maybe we don't need.
And to Jeff's point, sure. I suppose you don't need toys. You don't need dolls, but you do need if you want the economy to continue to grow, things to build, houses, to build the factories that, you know, people will want to try to build here in America. If this is ultimately going to work.
How long do you think and how long are your sources telling you that we have before these shelves start being empty?
MATTINGLY: This -- the GDP report, is actually important in trying to explain how this is going to work over time, which is the sheer kind of jump that we saw in imports, which is going to lead to a natural, wasn't totally reflected, but a natural large jump in inventories. Everyone was front loaded, right?
And so there will be inventory to last for a period of time. How long that's going to be -- I think I've heard anywhere from one month to two months. Obviously, online retailers, Chinese based online retailers in particular are already shooting up the prices. So they've got a window here.
I think Bill makes the most important point right now, which is they need not a deal that seems to be pushing towards a singular deal right now, which, by the way, contrary to what Howard Lutnick said, there is no finalized deal yet. They're certainly moving in that direction with India.
They need 90 plus deals and then they still have a essentially a default trade embargo against the world's second largest economy, who has a default trade embargo against the world's first largest economy. The scale of what, just on a bilateral basis, the China-U.S. trade war is right now is something we haven't seen and can't really quantify.
So, the amount of work that they need to do and outcomes that they need to secure in a very short period of time, where they still have inventories, where the bite really isn't significant. It's -- it's large. It's -- it's a hard, hard path to see here.
HUNT: I guess we're about to find out, right? Phil Mattingly, thank you very much for being with us here to start the show.
Jamie Gangel will be standing by for us as well.
Coming up next here, new CNN reporting on the case of the man mistakenly deported to Central America. What we're learning about direct talks between the Trump administration and the president of El Salvador.
Plus, the two new countries the administration is considering when it comes to deporting migrants with criminal records.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:52]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you plan to return him?
REP. NAYIB BUKELE, EL SALVADOR: I hope you're not suggesting that I smuggle a terrorist to the United States, right?
TRUMP: It's always CNN.
BUKELE: How can I smuggle -- how can I return him to the United States? Like I smuggle him into the United States? Or what do I do? Of course, I'm not going to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Of course, I'm not going to do it. He said two weeks after meeting President Trump in the Oval Office, El Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele remains committed to that statement. He has no intention of returning Abrego Garcia to the U.S., even after Secretary of State Marco Rubio has been in touch directly about the detention of Abrego Garcia, sources say.
A U.S. official telling CNN that the Trump administration has in fact asked for Abrego Garcia's return. Rubio's diplomatic effort coming as the administration faces a 5:00 p.m. deadline today to provide a judge information about what they've done to secure his release. Rubio and Trump both commenting on the matter during their cabinet meeting this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The conduct of our foreign policy belongs to the president of the United States and the executive branch, not some judge. So, we will conduct foreign policy appropriately if we need to, but I'll never discuss it, and no one will ever make us discuss it.
REPORTER: Do you think President Bukele would turn you down if you made that request?
TRUMP: I really don't know. They run a very professional operation. I don't know. I haven't spoken to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining our panel, CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams and CNN crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz.
Welcome to both of you. Wonderful to see you.
Katelyn, let me start with you on this kind of new reporting that we have here, because, of course, the president actually opened the door to this. And let's -- let's play this first. We'll talk about it. He did an interview with ABC yesterday and kind of raised the possibility that, oh, actually, we could do this.
Let's watch that moment. We'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: You could get him back. There's a phone on this desk.
TRUMP: I could.
INTERVIEWER: You could pick it up. And with all the power of the presidency. You could call up the president of El Salvador and say, send him back right now.
TRUMP: And if he were the gentleman that you say he is, I would do that.
INTERVIEWER: But the court has ordered you to facilitate that.
TRUMP: I'm not the one making this decision. We have lawyers. I don't want to do this.
INTERVIEWER: But the buck stops in this office.
TRUMP: No, no, no, no. I follow the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:25:02]
HUNT: So, Katelyn, how does what he said there fit into our new reporting about what's going on here?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, the new reporting is what was happening over, apparently, the last several days, maybe the last week.
There was this glimmer of a diplomatic resolution. Things in Abrego Garcia's court case went under seal. There was a brief pause on things. It sort of took the temperature down politically and legally.
And we learned that Rubio -- Rubio, the secretary of state, and Bukele, were in touch and that at one point, the U.S. asked for Abrego Garcia's return. El Salvador said no. So that puts us right back in where we were before.
And when you overlay what's going on politically today with Trump continuing to talk about it, Rubio, the court, you end up with an infinite loop of non-answers, right? You have Rubio saying it's the president's power. He can do whatever he wants in immigration. Trump saying, I'm following the lawyers, the lawyers saying were in court and were arguing it.
The judge saying, tell me what you're doing, secretary of state, Department of Homeland Security, whomever in the administration, what are you doing to facilitate this guy's return?
And that brings you back to Rubio saying it's the president's power. So we're still in this stalemate, but, Kasie, there is a judge in Maryland federal court, Paula Xinis, who continues to have jurisdiction on this case and continues to press for answers. There is a whole schedule now where the administration -- they're going to have to have up to six people testifying under oath to Abrego Garcia attorneys giving answers. And one of the attorneys today was telling our team reporting on this, they're going to get to the bottom to find the evidence of who is telling Trump not to make that call to El Salvador, to say, bring him back, or what is happening behind the scenes.
There is an evidence gathering that's going on and that is moving forward in court over the next week or so.
HUNT: Elliot?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah. Look, I think -- a few things can be true at the same time. One, that Abrego Garcia was wrongly removed from the United States. The Justice Department has acknowledged that fact in court, not just anecdotally saying it, but also that there might be a basis for removing him or not admitting him to the country were he to properly get due process.
And I think lost in all of this debate is, well, he was MS-13, he was a terrorist. Whatever. He beats his wife, whatever else, all those things might be true. And the court process ought to play that out.
But this idea that we're getting, we're losing the narrative a little bit. That started with some wrongfully removed from the country, which was improper.
HUNT: Bill Stepien, can you help me understand a little bit about -- I mean, the administration consistently has some of its strongest polling numbers on the issue of immigration. They have wanted to be seen as very strong on this issue. They have been very pugnacious in their kind of approach to this Abrego Garcia case, or at least they were in public until this new information has surfaced.
Can you help us understand the political dynamics that have Rubio talking to the president of El Salvador, U.S. learning El Salvador won't send him back? Clearly, some indication that actually the Trump administration is trying to bring him back.
STEPIEN: Let's not forget who this guy is. He's not supposed to be here in our country, came here illegally, allegedly a wife beater, allegedly human trafficker.
HUNT: Sure. And the administration has been eager to tell us. STEPIEN: All that stuff. Democrats, though, are pouring down to El Salvador, bowing at his altar like, please keep doing that. As a Republican, you see Hakeem Jeffries saying, lets slow that train down, making this guy the poster child for Democrats and immigration really good for Republicans. When someone like Laken Riley who was killed by a guy like this is ours, that's the politics.
HUNT: I get that. But what I mean is there's been a shift here, right? Like, clearly, the administration thinks they need to bring this guy back. And I'm curious as to why.
STEPIEN: Trump gets criticized for not bringing him back. Now he's being criticized for sending his secretary of state to get him back.
HUNT: I'm not trying to criticize him. I'm just -- I'm just trying to ask you, like, because they insist so strongly like, this is a bad guy. He shouldn't be here. We don't want him here. Why have they made this change? Have they realized that the way this has played with the American public is problematic for them?
STEPIEN: Trump said just before he follows the law on these matters. It seems like he's following the law in dispatching Rubio to negotiate the terms of this.
HUNT: According to that court decision.
STEPIEN: Correct.
HUNT: Okay. Xochitl?
HINOJOSA: So there was a clear change in this whole situation when the Justice Department admitted that this was a mistake on their part. Stephen Miller quickly got involved, was on television right after saying, no, that is not the case. This was not a mistake. And there ended up berating, you know, the person at the Justice Department who said that.
Ever since then, you have Pam Bondi on Fox News talking all the time. They try -- they're putting out evidence that he was, you know, a wife beater, all of these things to try to message everything. This quickly went from a mistake that the Justice Department has told everybody in the courts to a political issue, understanding that they needed to change the subject, they needed to change the message from the government making a mistake because nobody likes anyone who is not, you know, who hasn't received due process to be deported.
[16:30:03]
That is scary. If someone was deported by mistake to let us just go after this man and completely change the subject, and since then, I think this is where you have had Trump and you've seen Trump since -- praise Stephen Miller and praise Pam Bondi for the remarks around changing the narrative. And I think this is where you have a problem, is they have the public narrative and the political problem, and then they have what the attorneys are arguing in court and what the judge is telling them to do. And those two things are at a crossroads right now. And this is why I
think you're just seeing so much confusion.
WILLIAMS: You know, if it's about the guy -- yes, Bill, your point is absolutely right. It becomes this person becomes the face of American immigration and all that's wrong in the country.
If it is about a process, there is one right answer on this, which is that it did not work and someone was wrongfully removed from the country. Now, again, he might be a bad person. I will be the first person to acknowledge that, but that's got to play out through a normal process.
But again, if you make it about him, of course, it's a politically winning issue for the president.
HUNT: And, of course, we're starting to see some of this pop up in our polling. I mean, in the new poll, the new CNN poll out this week, we asked, is the federal government carefully following the law on deportations? And 57 percent of Americans told us, no, they are not. 43 percent said yes, they were.
So, speaking of how the administration is going to continue to handle this, there's some additional new news today, which is that the Trump administration is weighing sending migrants to Libya and Rwanda. Of course, we've been talking so much about Abrego Garcia who went to El Salvador.
We report this, quote, the Trump administration has discussed with Libya and Rwanda the possibility of sending migrants who have criminal records and are in the United States to those two countries, according to multiple sources familiar with the talks.
Katelyn Polantz, what more do we know about this? And perhaps, Elliot, forgive me if you may not be the right person to answer this question, but you may. I mean, what is the legality of doing that?
WILLIAMS: As long as folks get process, everything's legal. And again, we you know, what's not get caught up in? Is it Yemen? Is it Rwanda? Is it wherever else?
And is -- are the laws being followed in an appropriate manner? That, to me is the most important question, far more than the end result.
POLANTZ: Yeah. The issue here is far less about immigration, and it's far more about the power of due process, the Constitution, the judiciary in having a check and balance on these sorts of decisions. The administration at times has made this argument that they should be able to do whatever they want in the realm of immigration, foreign policy deals like this with, or whatever country it might be.
But at the end of the day, they're in trouble in court in two places because they put people on planes and did not have even precursory hearings for them. In immigration systems, which are run by the Justice Department, right? That's not even that.
HUNT: Which they should have control over.
POLANTZ: Right. And so, they didn't do that with Abrego Garcia. They didn't do it with the rest of with Venezuelans that were sent to El Salvador. And so, now, we're in a situation where they have to face this judge with his case, and it just seems like he's not coming back.
What happens if there are more deportations to whatever country? Its how that process is done, is the question.
HUNT: Yeah, for sure.
All right. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much for being with us today. Really appreciate it.
Coming up next here, Kamala Harris back in the spotlight tonight, gearing up for her first big speech post inauguration day, and a potential gubernatorial run in California. We'll dig into it.
And congressman -- Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle will be here to join our conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:38:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: You know, there were many things that we knew would happen. Many things -- I'm not here to say, I told you so.
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HUNT: Those are the most recent time that we heard from Kamala Harris, the former Democratic presidential nominee. But tonight, she will give her most extensive remarks since leaving the office of vice president.
Harris expected to deliver a pointed critique of Trump while underscoring the theme, "Courage is contagious". This all comes as Harris, still weighing her own political future, deciding between a run for California governor or another run for the White House. It may still only be 2025, but let's just say that field already starting to get crowded.
Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker has been making waves this week. He called for mass protests, mobilization and disruption during a speech he made in New Hampshire, while another potential Democratic presidential hopeful, the Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, welcomed Trump to her state yesterday, embracing him on the tarmac, speaking at his event and getting a little bit of praise from the president.
Democratic Congressman from Pennsylvania, Brendan Boyle, joins us now to talk more about this.
Congressman, always great to see you. Thanks very much for being here. Clearly -- and some of our new polling shows this. The Democratic
brand is not great right now. Seventy-two percent of Americans say they disapprove of Democratic congressional leaders. That's actually ten points higher than those who say they disapprove of Republicans.
Now, of course, President Trump has his own struggles, right? His approval rating at historic lows. But clearly, there is a struggle in your party to figure out the best way to take on President Trump and the various things that he's doing.
Who do you think has it right, right now?
REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Look, losing sucks. And Democratic voters are pretty unhappy that we lost the House, the Senate and the White House. That's pretty natural. It feels a lot like it did eight years ago at this moment. In fact, it feels a lot like it did exactly 20 years ago at this moment.
Two times where Republicans narrowly won a trifecta. Both of those previous times I just mentioned, Democrats came roaring back in the next midterm election to win back control of Congress. And I do think that past will be prologue this time.
When I'm back home in Philadelphia, the number of people who are angered and irate by what this administration is doing, whether it's on tariffs or possibly closing every Social Security office in my area, laying off 400 IRS workers in Center City Philly, it goes on and on.
And none of this, none of it. The people voted for it. They voted for Trump by 1.5 percent in my state, because he said he would get costs down. He is failing at that. And now, of course, prices are only going up.
HUNT: One thing, of course, congressman, that has been kind of a basic reality for Democrats for the last few presidential cycles is that in many ways, the establishment of the party has selected the nominee. Theres some truth to that in the case of Hillary Clinton in 2016, of course, Joe Biden in 2020, there was a lot of thinking among the party elders that he was the only one who could win.
Now, obviously, he beat Donald Trump in 2020, but then in 2024, obviously after the midterm performance, nobody was willing to stand up to him and say, sir, you shouldn't run another time.
Do you think somebody -- I mean, do you think that that's something that has contributed to the loss that we just saw now? And do you think the party is capable of doing it differently in '28?
BOYLE: You know, respectfully, I disagree with your premise. I remember 2007-2008 presidential primaries, in which Barack Obama started as a pretty significant underdog and was able to win the Democratic nomination. Ultimately, it's Democratic primary voters who select the nominees, not the establishment.
There was a time when the establishment did choose the nominees of both parties from 1968 and previous, but we're not in that day and age anymore. It's primary voters.
I also think that it's really important that we not fight the last battle or make the mistake of waging and fighting the last war. The reality is we have to focus on the here and now. Republicans are pushing an incredibly unpopular tax package that cuts Medicaid to the tune of $880 billion a year, 81 percent of the American people oppose those Medicaid cuts.
Thats what I'm focused on. I think that's what most Democrats here in the House are focused on as well.
HUNT: Fair enough. All right. Stand by for me, congressman will continue to be part of our conversation here.
Our panel is back, including Isaac Dovere of CNN, who has reported extensively on Harris throughout presidential run. And you're covering her now.
Isaac, what are we going to hear from her tonight? And, you know, obviously, there's a lot of anger and frustration among Democratic voters at Democratic leaders. How much of that are they pointing at her? And what does that -- how does that bear on her future?
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER; Some -- so far, not much of it has been pointed at her. Of course, she's in this period where it's after the election loss and people are wondering what her future will hold, and we can talk about that. But I think that the important things to think about for this speech tonight are both the context and the timing. It is not a mistake that this is the 100-days mark for Trump, that she's delivering this speech the first time that she's really speaking out since the election.
It's also not a mistake that she's doing it in front of the group that where she's going to be. It's a group called Engage, which is about raising up female Democratic politicians. And she's doing it back home in San Francisco, where her political career started, right?
These -- this is the context where she's going to do it. And from what I've been told, we should expect that it will be a more extensive set of remarks about Trump and going at him more than we've heard since November. And her last speeches of the campaign.
HUNT: Yeah.
Bill Stepien, I'm -- what do you think is the smart play for Kamala Harris right now?
STEPIEN: As a Republican, I love this. Like more, please? Right? More speeches, more campaigns.
I don't really -- maybe she's going to run for governor, if that's what this is all about. The scenes kind of set for that to happen. If I'm a Democrat, I'm looking to turn the page. I'm looking to move on. There are new leaders, younger leaders, better leaders to carry the torch.
If I'm a Democrat, I just want this thing to go away.
HUNT: Xochitl? You are --
HINOJOSA: Somewhat agree.
I think that there are a lot of Democrats that want to see her run for governor. I think people want to change the page on the presidency. I think that, you know, the congressman was right. Whenever we have a competitive primary, like in 2008 and in 2020, we win. In 2016, there was somewhat competitive, but somewhat some might argue that the DNC tried to clear the field a little bit, right? And then also in 2024, we did not have a competitive primary and we lost.
[16:45:04]
So, I think that the party understands that when you have a 20-person race, we are not going to have a contested convention. It is actually good for the party to have this sort of debate and to see who rises to the top, who raises the most money, who has the best message, all of those things, and that's how we succeed.
WILLIAMS: What we're seeing is a party in the wilderness. You saw it with Republicans after 2012, and they're just testing out what works. Look at the various ones. You talked about J.B. Pritzker sort of working the phones behind the scenes, Gavin Newsom with this podcast. Mayor Pete grew a beard, like all kinds of things.
Literally, they're testing out new images, testing out new messages, and trying to see what will capture the hearts and minds of Democrats. And it happens when parties are out of power, probably happen to Democrats in the late '80s before Bill Clinton as well.
HUNT: Yeah. Congressman Boyle, I won't ask you to comment on Mayor Pete's new facial hair style choices, but I am curious if you think that the Democratic nominee could be somebody we've obviously just listed out a lot of names here. You and I both know what the list looks like.
Do you think what are the chances that the Democrats nominate somebody that were not talking about sitting here right now?
BOYLE: Yeah, I know for certain that I will not grow a beard. Thats the extent of my comments on that.
But I would remind folks that exactly at this moment, 20 years ago, Barack Obama was polling at 1 percent for the next presidential election. I think it's probable that the next Democratic nominee, indeed, perhaps the next president of the United States, is someone who were not even talking about, who isn't even in the top 15 or top 20 of the polls.
I have seen time and time again, whether it was Joe Lieberman leading at one point in 2001 and 2002, or Hillary Clinton leading into 2008, it is often the case that whoever is leading at this moment in the presidential cycle does not become the nominee.
HUNT: All right. Fair enough. Congressman Brendan Boyle, thanks very much for being here. Hope you'll come back soon.
All right. Coming up next, breaking news on a disturbing case in New York state. Nearly a dozen high school athletes turning themselves into authorities in a case the local district attorney says, quote, says goes way beyond hazing. We'll bring you those details, next.
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HUNT: All right. Welcome back. This just in to CNN.
All 11 of the high school lacrosse players who are suspected of being involved in hazing a teammate in Syracuse have turned themselves in. This is, of course, an incident officers are describing as well, beyond hazing.
CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us now.
Omar, what do we know?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So, all 11 of these teammates have turned themselves in, again, accused of being part of this incident that goes way beyond hazing.
And this comes after the district attorney essentially had put out a plea that said, turn your -- turn yourselves in within 48 hours, and you will be charged with a lesser misdemeanor charge. Or if you choose not to turn yourself in and you get caught later on, you would be charged with a more serious felony.
Now this is all over an incident, again, the D.A. says goes way beyond hazing. Essentially, the suspect allegedly tricked some of the younger players into thinking they were going to McDonald's after a game. Instead, they were driven out to a more remote location of the area where the driver claimed to be lost, then accomplices, as the D.A. describes them. Likely, other teammates jumped out of the woods, pretended to be kidnapers, at least one wielding what appeared to be a handgun and a knife. According to the D.A.
Some of the teammates were able to escape, but at least one had a pillowcase thrown over his head, thrown into the trunk of the car, and left for a period of time to where he thought he was going to be abandoned. That's all, according to the district attorney.
That player was eventually returned home, but now that these players have turned themselves in, the district attorney says the non-juvenile students will be arraigned while the juveniles will go straight to family court where they face misdemeanor charges of unlawful imprisonment, according to the D.A. But again, this comes after that warning for 48 hours was put out over this incident that as the D.A. has laid out in his opinion, goes way beyond hazing, the season for the team, maybe goes without saying, has been canceled, and the school district has also launched its own investigation, Kasie.
HUNT: Really tough. All right. Omar Jimenez, thanks very much for that report.
Elliot Williams, very briefly, they made a decision here. Turn yourselves in. We'll charge you with something lesser. Does that usually happen in these kinds of cases?
JIMENEZ: Yeah. And it's for accepting responsibility. Its they could have been charged with kidnaping, which is basically restraining someone against their will. You don't -- you don't even need to take them somewhere else. Simply the act of restraint.
I think they're charging them with unlawful imprisonment. Basically just, you know, putting hands on a guy because he could have been hurt. This is a pretty serious crime. Yeah.
HUNT: All right. Very serious indeed.
OK. A reminder, as you follow along with us, you can also follow the show on social media, X and Instagram @TheArenaCNN. You can also find me on those socials @Kasie right there.
Coming up next here, something totally different. What's bringing people like Tim McGraw and Mariah Carey together? We'll explain
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HUNT: All right, welcome back.
Barbra Streisand, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan and Mariah Carey all on the same album? I'm sorry. What?
Barbra Streisand releasing a new duets album titled "The Secrets of Life: Partners Volume 2". It's a sequel to her 2014 album "Partners". She's got duets with Hozier, Sam Smith, Bob Dylan. And there's a rendition of the song "My Valentine" with Sir Paul McCartney himself. And you'll also get a trio with powerhouse vocalist Mariah Carey and Ariana Grande.
If you like country music, there's a song with Tim McGraw. You can also find Sting, Josh Groban, and Steel. I guess -- Seal. I guess the better question is, who's not on this album? Set to be released on June 27th.
One important note our CNN legal analyst, Elliot Williams, is the one who pitched this story to us.
So, I guess, Elliot, you must be a fan.
WILLIAMS: Well, look, you know, Mariah Carey -- Mariah Carey and Ariana Grande are doing a duet with Barbra Streisand. Why did we talk about anything else for the last hour? I don't understand.
HUNT: Great question.
Al right. Thank you so much for that. Thanks to all of you for watching.
"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
