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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Fed Leaves Interest Rates Steady, Noting Rising Economic Uncertainty Due to Trump's Trade War; No Pope Is Elected In First Round Of Voting At The Conclave; Kennedy Center Boycott; 3 Former Memphis Officers Acquitted Of State Charges, Including Second Degree Murder, In Death Of Tyre Nichols. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 07, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:05]
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Well, a short time ago, we did get smoke on day one for the first vote, black smoke. So, the conclave will be reporting back for duty tomorrow as we wait and watch for that white smoke telling us we have a new pope.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, that's it for us.
Erica, so great to have you.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
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KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's the tariffs versus the talks.
Let's head into THE ARENA.
Stark new warnings just in on the state of the U.S. economy. What the Fed Chair Jerome Powell is now saying about the president's tariffs as the White House prepares for key talks with the world's second biggest economy, China.
Also this hour, the search for a new pope will go on. Just moments ago, black smoke at the Vatican signaling cardinals were unable to elect a new leader on the first day of the Conclave. A live report from Rome ahead of the next round of voting.
Plus, breaking news in Memphis in the 2023 beating death of Tyre Nichols. The verdict is in for three former police officers accused of murder.
(MUSIC)
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
As we come on the air, a man known for thinking and thinking again about every word he says before he says it is not mincing words today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR: If the large increases in tariffs that have been announced or sustained, they're likely to generate a rise in inflation, a slowdown in economic growth and an increase in unemployment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So that was the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, this afternoon. He made those comments after choosing not to adjust interest rates for right now and instead issuing warnings of coming higher prices, higher unemployment, higher inflation, because of all the uncertainty around the president's tariff policy. That's all unfolding as the stakes in the global trade war now getting higher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I will be going to Switzerland and the negotiations will begin on Saturday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are those negotiations considered advanced?
BESSENT: As I said, on Saturday, we will begin, which I believe is the opposite of advance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent today confirming trade discussions with China, but also leveling expectations there, saying that these are basically talks to talk about talking, even suggesting that it's a coincidence, emphasizing he was already going to be in Switzerland this weekend to talk to the Swiss, and the Chinese just happened to be there, too. But what the two sides could discuss is a way to potentially de-escalate these massive tariffs that President Trump has leveled on Chinese goods coming into the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: They said that they would not talk unless the reciprocal trade tariff of 145 percent was removed.
BESSENT: I'm not going to give away our strategy. And look, everything's on the table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: As it is in most high level negotiations, everything is on the table. That's a pretty boilerplate standard answer.
But then the president was asked about this exact scenario this afternoon in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you open to pulling back tariffs in order to get China to the negotiating table?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: It seems like everything isn't exactly on the table.
All right. Our panel is here, but we're going to start with CNN chief domestic correspondent and anchor Phil Mattingly.
Phil, always wonderful to see you.
Let's start with what Powell said. He said it is quote, possible to imagine. Thats his phrase. And as we know, he chooses his words carefully that the economy will get worse because of this tariff policy. What did you hear in his words today?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Honestly, I think the best shorthand version of Chair Powell's remarks and also the Fed statement that came out at 2:00 p.m. is no one really knows anything right now.
And I'm not trying to be glib when I say that. I think it's actually really important to understand the moment where uncertainty is kind of the buzzword we've heard for now several months, from CEOs, from small business owners, from market participants from a lot of government officials, including some White House officials, when they're being more candid and perhaps not on the record.
That now includes the Federal Reserve chair. The number of times in different ways that Powell got at the point of not actually having any idea what's going to happen next and the very clear risks that that poses, both on the inflation side of things. But also on the economic growth and employment side of things. But also the possibility that maybe it won't be so bad is, frankly, it's remarkable.
And I think the fact that the top economic policy, monetary policy official in the United States, the most important monetary policy official in the world, is basically saying we have no idea what's going to happen next, and therefore, we are going to just hold is a really good capture of the moment that we're in.
[16:05:03]
And that moment, and I think you can just watch kind of if you're following the Dow Jones Industrial Average, it's underscored by the fact that over the course of the last several weeks, I think five, maybe six times, depending on where today landed, I was preparing to talk to you. So, I don't know exactly what close was, but there have been intraday jumps or drops of 1 percent or more that have completely inverted five times in the last several weeks.
Theres no real precedent for that. And that's because the market right now is operating with a similar amount of uncertainty and completely reliant in kind of on a hair trigger for any type of headline that could dictate positive news or negative news. And that brings me to what we heard from the president today, and what his trade negotiators are going to be doing this weekend. The president making very clear he's not in the mood or planning to
pull back any of those China tariffs. The fact that talks are happening at all, a positive signal that Powell kind of alluded to today saying, look, anything could happen. All of this could kind of fall off the plate in terms of risks. If there are a bunch of deals made.
The reality, though, there are no deals that have been made up to this point. The negotiations that are underway are complicated because they're not traditional trade talks, as you and I, Kasie, covered them when they were being moved through Capitol Hill.
HUNT: And they did them the normal way.
MATTINGLY: Right. And those -- to be fair, those took 18 months at a minimum on average. And so, in 90 days, for 100 trade deals doesn't really give that kind of leeway.
But I think the biggest reality in this moment is the downside risk here is enormous. And potentially stagflation-esque. The upside risk is, well, we'll see what happens in Geneva where people just happen to be going, Kasie.
HUNT: Just -- just remarkable, same place, same time. Who knew?
Phil Mattingly, thank you very much for that. Really appreciate it.
Our panel is here. CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams, CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel, CNN political commentator Xochitl Hinojosa, and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
Jamie Gangel, the president was extraordinarily definitive, definitive in the Oval Office. You heard him there. He just answered the question with one word. No, I'm not willing to adjust this. I don't want to change this.
He though, I will say, its noteworthy that on the day that Jerome Powell came out and did something that the president would have preferred he not do, he wanted Powell to come out and cut rates. Trump also isn't out there trashing Jerome Powell.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Wait, wait, yet. No --
HUNT: Although maybe I should have opened Truth Social before I said that out loud on the air.
GANGEL: Three -- three, two, one.
Look, I think that could very well be coming. But just to underscore what Phil Mattingly said, I don't know how many times we're going to use the word uncertainty, but here we are again.
Jay Powell., at least today has the hardest job in Washington, and this is an impossible hand he's been dealt because uncertainty is not a way to run an economy. And, you know, to tell a Fed chairman we don't know just makes his job impossible.
As Phil said, he just has to wait and see. I believe the names that President Trump has called are a major loser and Mr. Too Late and threatened to fire him and then went back. Let's wait and see.
HUNT: Scott Jennings, this reality that Powell acknowledged where the signals that are coming in are scrambled and totally unclear, what -- what do you make of it and what is the level of concern among Republicans on the Hill who has, you know, we've discussed have not really been, you know, fans of tariffs in recent generations.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the chairman should keep his pants on because the secretary of the treasury is currently engaged and the administration is currently engaged in high level negotiations with 16 of the 17 most important countries. The 17th is China, and he's going to Switzerland to open talks with the Chinese this weekend.
Obviously, the market isn't terribly worried about it. Over the last month, both the S&P and the Dow Jones Industrial Average are up significantly. So, there is some confidence here, I think, in what Bessent is doing, I don't think all these trade deals are going to come quickly, but they are going to come.
If anything is true about Donald Trump, it's that he was put on this earth to want to make deals, and he has created a situation where he now has to make deals, and he should and can.
HUNT: What's the pressure his people feeling to do that?
JENNINGS: Oh, I think there's a lot of pressure and interest to do it, but it's positive pressure because were finally resetting and leveling the playing field.
You mentioned the Hill. Of course, Republicans are interested in the outcome here. They're the ones that have to run under this plan next year. But of course, they're also under their own pressure, which is to get their act together and pass the reconciliation bill. Thats part two of a two-part plan.
Rebalancing trade is part one, cutting taxes and deregulating energy is part two. They both have to go together. And so they're under their own set of pressure up on the hill.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that with the uncertainty, the only -- I think we can all agree that it is Donald Trump who caused the uncertainty, and now he needs to bring us out of it.
[16:10:07]
And yet he continues to blame everybody else. Whether he blames the Biden economy. It's -- you said three, two one before he goes after the Fed and blames them, you know, for pressure and, you know, for not providing the American people. So, I do think that Trump at some point needs to put pressure on his administration to deliver something fairly soon.
I don't think that the American people have time to wait anymore. I think that we are seeing that, you know, China is we're essentially trade is -- is at a halt with China. And so, I think that it is fairly soon as people have been warning that shelves are empty. And so, I think Trump needs to go back to his administration and say, we don't have something within 30 days. If we don't, you know, what is -- what is our plan B? And I don't think that that's happened for him yet.
HUNT: Elliot Williams, we heard, of course, Phil use the word stagflation, which is sort of the great fear. Ford Motor Company announced that starting May 2nd, so five days ago, they were going to raise their sticker prices on cars between $600 and $2,000.
This is no longer just hypothetical for people, although, as you know, Xochitl points out, I mean, we haven't really yet felt the impact on shelves of what's going on with these ships. But how much patience do you think there actually is?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not a lot. And it's -- I don't think Ford did that action out of necessity because they had to. It's because of the uncertainty that we're all talking about here. If all the things that Scott laid out happened, then absolutely, the skies will open and everything will be great. The problem that I think the president has created is with the Truth Social posts and with these statements that aren't quite supported, causing a tremendous amount of uncertainty in the markets.
Look, just think about last week, all this talk about movies and putting tariffs on films, something that would be horribly --
HUNT: I think that was Monday. I think that was -- yeah, just, you know, how long a week is it? Donald Trump.
WILLIAMS: But even just even think about, you know, I saw the new Marvel film, "Thunderbolts" with my kids this weekend that was shot in New York, Atlanta, and Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. How do you put tariffs on something that is shot in multiple places around the world, but distributed by an American company?
When the president puts things like that out as statements and then walks away and says, well, you know, just, you know, we're just going to see what happens. It has an effect on industries that just simply do not know how to plan.
HUNT: Yeah. So, Scott Jennings, this is the first time I've had you at the table, I think, since the president started talking about no dolls for you or two dolls for you, I guess, is the -- is the phrase. Scott Bessent was asked about what the presidents been saying about dolls when he was on Fox News last night. Let's watch what Bessent said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BESSENT: I would tell that young girl that you will have a better life than your parents, that you and your family, thanks to President Trump, can now be confident again that you will have a better life than your parents, which working class Americans had abandoned that idea. Your family will own a home.
You will be able to the -- advance. You will have a good education. You will have economic freedom. That's what we are advancing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So I think I'm starting to understand why so many Republicans that I talk to like to see Scott Bessent as the face of the administration, because, I mean, that does seem to be the underlying message for the tariffs. Why is it so hard for the president to say that himself?
JENNINGS: Well, the president has taken a very hard line on China. He doesn't think there are good actors, and he thinks that they need to be dealt with in a -- in a harsh way. And so, I don't disagree with that.
HUNT: Right. But he's not talking about the Chinese when he's talking about these dolls. He's talking about kids.
JENNINGS: But he is.
HUNT: But he's saying, look, we don't need the junk. You don't need the junk. You can have two dolls instead of 30.
JENNINGS: Well, I think when you put his comments together with Secretary Bessent, what they're saying is the American dream is not solely based on our ability to get the cheapest junk we can from China. The American dream is built on us not being reliant on our enemy, but having jobs here, having better jobs here, having a better pathway for your family to make a better living for yourself. That has nothing to do with being able to get cheap junk from China.
So, I do think what their message is rooted in has to do with a long- term statement about what constitutes the American dream, and don't fall into the trap of believing that we have to be reliant on our enemy for you to have a dream of what? Owning a bunch of junk?
The dream is we make stuff here. It will be high quality, and the people who make it will make a fair wage. That's the American dream.
WILLIAMS: I think it's even broader than that, too. It's not just about the dolls, I think. It's how much pain are people willing to take for this notion of making America better. How much pain are people going to take in their wallets for this nebulous value --
HUNT: I mean, I think --
WILLIAMS: -- good for the American dream that Scotts' talking about.
HUNT: It seems like the right political message might be able to convince people. I mean, we've seen plenty of periods in American history where people have been willing to say, okay, you know, I got to buckle down and support what the country is doing. I think my point is the president is not making that argument.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think he's trying to make the argument, but couching it in a lot of other nonsense.
[16:15:03]
I mean, Scott Bessent did sort of lay that out there, but I actually think it's a big thing to ask people who are suffering or struggling financially to say, no, no, no, no, no, this is about the American dream or this is about a broader American value if people in their pocketbooks today are hurting. That's a lot to swallow.
GANGEL: Can I just add one thing? This is really not about dolls or junk. It's about penicillin, which, you know, a lot -- a lot of our medication gets made in in China now. It's about car parts. It's about -- it's about phones.
Those are things -- it's not about, you know, you only get two dolls.
JENNINGS: I agree with you --
GANGEL: When a family goes out to buy a car.
JENNINGS: But you're raising the correct point. Is it good for us to be reliant on our enemy for medicine and car parts and things that go into national security implements? It's not about the dolls. It's about everything else.
And were so entangled with people who cheat and who are ultimately our enemy on the world stage, detangling us and making us not reliant on our enemy is the point. And I know it's a hard message, but that's what leadership means. Going out and giving a hard message when it will be to the benefit of the country long term.
HINOJOSA: But it's not giving them. He's actually not telling the American people how long this pain will happen. What does the pain look like? You know, those are the things that the American people want here. This is why they don't agree with him on this right now.
WILLIAMS: And it's pain today. That's the thing, getting people to swallow their own pain.
HUNT: We are not necessarily, as Americans collectively known for our patience so much.
All right. Coming up next here, we're going to dig more into this decision from the Federal Reserve. Democratic Congressman Daniel Goldman of New York is going to join us right here in THE ARENA.
But, first, day one of the conclave has concluded with black smoke. We're live in Rome as the world's 1 billion Catholics await the choice for the new pope.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:16] HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Moments ago, quite late in the evening, quite honestly over there, black smoke billowed from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, bringing the first day of the conclave to an end without a new pope. Earlier today, the doors to the Sistine Chapel were sealed, marking the beginning of one of the world's oldest dramas under intense secrecy. This time, perhaps, there may be more politicking than usual, as the cardinals decide whether to follow Pope Francis's more progressive path or turn and select a more conservative candidate.
Also complicating the process, Pope Francis elevated cardinals from countries that had never had one before. Some of those cardinals can't speak Italian, the official language of the Vatican, and they're unfamiliar with the process of the conclave.
Luckily, we all got a lesson in conclave from Ralph Fiennes and Stanley Tucci.
(BEGN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Tedesco becomes pope, he will undo 60 years of progress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You talk as if you're the only alternative.
But Dahiyeh has the wind behind him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adeyemi, Adeyemi, the man who believes that homosexuals should be sent to prison in this world and hell in the next. Adeyemi is not the answer to anything. And you know it.
If you want to defeat Tedesco --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defeat -- this is a conclave, Aldo. It's not a war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a war. And you have to commit to a side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: In case you wondered whether or not the conclave was actually about politics, of course it is at the end of the day.
Let's bring in CNN senior national correspondent, David Culver, and Kim Daniels, she is the director of the Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life at Georgetown University. And they are both live for us in Rome.
David, let me start with you. You are in the crowd in St. Peter's Square. Tell us about what it was like when that black smoke mostly expected, emerged from the Sistine Chapel.
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, the crowd has now totally cleared out for the most part. Youve got a few stragglers, but it was jampacked and they were here for four plus hours, because there's essentially what they consider to be these smoke windows. That's what they referred to.
And so, from 5:00 the evening local time until 8:00 is generally when they think that there's going to be perhaps smoke coming out. It lasted an extra hour. So, you had people who were standing as it was getting rather chilly too jampacked, waiting, and then suddenly we saw the black smoke come up.
And it was interesting how it played out here, though. I mean, because you've got these large screens that they have set up and they basically simulcast everything that's happening up until the point where they closed the doors. And it was interesting because they closed the doors and you heard the sound of the door shut. And it echoed throughout St. Peter's Square, and you had the whole crowd just hushed. And then applaud.
And they were following along throughout it. Even as the cardinals were taking their oath before that moment, you had folks who were from certain countries. So, if you saw a Filipino cardinal go up, you'd hear applause from certain sections of the group. If you saw an American cardinal go up, you'd see the same. And they were almost rooting for their home team in that moment.
And yet, obviously, as the doors close, we don't know what happens. And so we're all left guessing. And you had some people who had come up to us even, and they would say it's lasting a little bit longer than we had anticipated. What's going on there? I mean, obviously we don't have any contact with what's going on inside.
And as you pointed out in the film "Conclave", I mean, they made that pretty clear how they have the jammers. We've even seen some drone jammers. They're very conscientious about security, and, of course, the secrecy of what happens behind me. But at the same time, they don't know what's happening out here. And you had the crowd that for a few moments would start clapping.
[16:25:01]
And then they would hush, and then they'd hear bells, which were scheduled at the time, so they weren't sure. There's a lot of uncertainty, and everyone's in the same kind of rhythm, guessing what might happen.
But this is a city that in this moment, you start to distinguish between the tourists, of which there are a lot. This is the start of high season here. It's a jubilee year. And of course, now you've got a papal conclave, so it's jampacked and you've got the locals.
And so, the tourists, as soon as they saw the black smoke, there was a sigh of disappointment that you could hear amongst most of them. And that's because for many of them, their timing here is coincidental. And so, they may be leaving later today or tomorrow, and they won't be here, perhaps when they actually is going to be a pope.
But the locals, Kasie, as they were walking off, I said, are you disappointed? They smiled a few of them and they said, no, we'll be back tomorrow. HUNT: We'll be back tomorrow.
Kim Daniels, can you give us a little bit of insight into what all of these cardinals come together to Rome, knowing already about each other, how and why people who may become the next pope are seen that way. I mean, because clearly, they're not really allowed to say out loud that they're politicking, that seems to be very much against the sort of unwritten rules for this.
But at the end of the day, that's absolutely what's happening. What are those relationships like as they lock themselves into this room?
KIM DANIELS, DIRECTOR, INITIATIVE ON CATHOLIC SOCIAL THOUGHT AND PUBLIC LIFE, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: So it's been widely commented on that. Pope Francis appointed cardinals from the peripheries of the world, from some of the smallest countries, with smallest Catholic populations, bringing in just a real diversity of voices here. And so there's a way in which many of them don't know each other.
I will say one thing, though. Pope Francis had this reform process called the synod, to make the church a more welcoming, listening church that met for the whole month of October for the past two years and brought together almost half of the cardinal electors here in Rome to work over five days a week, over seven hours a day. So, there's a group of them that really does know each other.
Having said that, they're focused on so many different concerns, not just the sort of right left concern that we might be familiar with through politics in the United States, but really a lot of different things. And fundamentally about who can most draw people in this time and place to the gospel.
HUNT: All right. David Culver and Kim Daniels, thank you very much for that. Of course, we're all going to be on pins and needles for the next 24 hours to see if we get an answer to this big question tomorrow. Thank you both very much.
All right. Coming up next here, Congressman Dan Goldman will be here live in THE ARENA. We'll get his thoughts on the global trade war and the president's ongoing battle with the judiciary.
Plus, the verdict today in the death of Tyre Nichols. Three former police officers learned their fate on charges that included second degree murder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:11]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: There's so much uncertainty if you talk to businesses or market participants or forecasters. Everyone is just -- is just waiting to see how developments play out, and then we'll be able to make a better assessment of what the appropriate path for monetary policy is. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell, citing the high uncertainty around the American economy as one of the reasons the Central Bank chose to keep interest rates unchanged today. This, as Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Trade Representative Jamieson Greer are gearing up to break the ice with China in face to face trade talks in Switzerland later this week.
Joining us now to discuss Democratic Congressman Daniel Goldman of New York, who sits on the judiciary and homeland security committees.
Congressman, very grateful to have you here.
I want to start with what we heard from Jerome Powell here today. And, of course, the news that Scott Bessent will be talking to the Chinese. Do you see any world where perhaps what President Trump is doing with the Chinese could help the American economy in the long run or not?
REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY): I mean, not at this rate, where it's clearly just a sort of gut, instinctive reactions, the sort of an overly emotional reaction where he just continued to ratchet up tariffs because, you know, I'm tougher than you. That's essentially what his base says. And that underscores I think what Jerome Powell said today about the uncertainty.
There is no rhyme or reason -- there is no strategy here that Donald Trump is implementing for our economy. And that was reflected by exactly what Jerome Powell said. We have no idea what the purpose or the point is. There are many different reasons. None of them explain these escalating tariffs and none of them are going to be successful.
So, we're all sitting here waiting, wondering what he's going to get. And I certainly hope it's a lot more than just forcing foreign countries to take contracts from Elon Musk and Starlink, which was also reported today.
HUNT: Congressman, speaking of what else has unfolded today, and I know this has been something you have focused a lot about. Two more judges blocked the Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport migrants. And this morning, the president wrote this on his Truth Social platform, quote, our court system is not letting me do the job I was elected to do. Activist judges must let the Trump administration deport murderers and other criminals who have come into our country illegally without delay.
And then, of course, he said in this interview over the weekend that he doesn't know if he would uphold -- should uphold the Constitution in the situation with due process, with undocumented immigrants.
[16:35:13]
What's your reaction to what the president said this morning?
GOLDMAN: Look, I think this is so misguided. The notion that because he won an election. That he should be able to ignore the constitution or violate our laws is preposterous. Every president wins an election. That does not mean that they get to just make up whatever laws they want and decide which ones they're going to comply with and which ones they aren't.
Donald Trump does not get to decide what the law is. The Supreme Court and the judiciary does, as well as immigration judges for deportation cases. And so, the issue here is he wants to use the alien enemies act in 1798. Law from a completely different era that says only those who represent who are essentially soldiers for a different country in wartime can be removed from this country.
But there hasn't been established in any way, shape or form that there's any war that Venezuela is waging on us. In fact, the intelligence community has determined that Venezuela is not directly supporting the Tren de Aragua, the gang, the foreign terrorist organization that's been designated now.
So, there is no factual basis to think that the Alien Enemies Act should apply. And for Donald Trump to just say, oh, well, I won in my election. Therefore, I get to determine what the Alien Enemies Act says is preposterous. It runs totally counter to the very fundamental nature of our constitutional and democratic values.
HUNT: Are you confident the president will uphold the Constitution?
GOLDMAN: I'm not confident. I'm not at all.
And I think that in he hasn't he has not done so with due process. He has not done so with the foreign emoluments clause, as we saw last week, where the UAE -- a UAE-backed finance company, bought $2 billion of Donald Trump's stablecoin, a cryptocurrency that will net him hundreds of millions of dollars.
I don't think he is abiding by the Constitution. He needs to. The Republicans here in the House and over in the Senate need to pressure him to do so publicly, because our Constitution and our fundamental democracy hangs in the balance.
And his behavior is escalating. It's becoming more aggressive, more antagonistic to the courts, more antagonistic to the rule of law, more antagonistic to the Constitution. And if Republicans do not speak out for our Constitution, then we're heading down a really dangerous path.
HUNT: On another topic, sir, before I let you go. One of your Democratic colleagues, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, announced she was going to decline to seek the ranking slot on the oversight committee. And she said, it's clear to me that the underlying dynamics in the caucus have shifted with respect to seniority have not shifted as much with respect to seniority as I think would be necessary, basically implying that there's not room for, you know, for her for an up-and- coming person in the caucus.
Do you think Democrats need to do a better job of promoting younger, newer voices, especially considering the scope of the loss in the last election? GOLDMAN: Well, I don't agree with my friend and colleague AOC. I
think in this particular instance what we have seen since the last election is a bit of a changing of the guard on a number of different committees. She did not win her election against a more senior member of the oversight committee. But that is not necessarily a reflection of our party.
I think we recognize that we do need new voices. We do need to promote traditional and familiar Democratic values, liberal values of opportunity and freedom and liberty. And, succeeding in our country under the auspices of the American dream. And AOC is a fantastic voice for that. And she's a terrific messenger on so many different levels and layers. But I don't think that she would win or lose based on seniority issues. I think she would have had a very good chance of winning if she decided to run.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Dan Goldman, very grateful to have you on the show today, sir. I hope you'll come back soon.
GOLDMAN: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, CNN's special correspondent and our panelist today, Jamie Gangel, breaking some news about the Kennedy Center right here on CNN in just moments. A planned boycott from some performers -- we'll bring you that next.
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HUNT: All right. Back now with CNN exclusive reporting breaking right now. Sources are telling us that some cast members of Les Miserables will boycott an upcoming performance at the Kennedy Center on the night that President Trump is set to attend a high dollar fundraiser there.
Our panel is back, including Jamie Gangel, who is the one breaking this story.
Jamie, tell us what you've learned.
GANGEL: So what we've been told is that the production company gave the actors the option of whether or not to perform that night, and at least 10 to 12 have opted out.
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They include some major roles, some ensemble we don't know yet.
But look, this goes back to what we've seen for the last -- as it just been a couple of weeks, with the friction over the Kennedy Center when President Trump took over, Hamilton canceled their -- their run at the Kennedy Center. A number of other performers have.
So, this is just the latest. It does coincide. This will be President Trump's debut at the Kennedy Center. And he has announced that he is going to hold a major fundraiser that night.
He said when Hamilton dropped out, he didn't much like Hamilton. I believe the quote was. He's liked Les Mis. He's used the music even though the creators were not crazy about it. So, we'll see how he -- .
HUNT: Yeah, I was going to say that. I mean, obviously Lin-Manuel Miranda has been a favorite of many Democratic politicians in, in recent years. And this is -- he used the -- we were all -- I won't get it stuck in all of your head at home. The song do the -- do you hear the people sing?
Suffice to say I can sing most of the words, but that's the song Trump would play at his rallies. It has a political message to it because, of course, the performance is about the French Revolution. It's really fraught with symbolism.
GANGEL: Yes. I never quite been sure whether he completely understood the meaning and context of that song or whether he did, and he embraced it as -- as his message.
HUNT: So, Scott Jennings, this seems rich with things that you perhaps knowing where you stand would have things to say about because of course, I mean, the president, the president of the United States has always had a, you know, a specific formal role with the Kennedy Center, right? It's been, you know, the stage for -- for supporting arts throughout our country, obviously named for John F. Kennedy. There is a massive bust of John F. Kennedy in the atrium of the Kennedy Center.
The President Trump, of course, went early in his second term. Theres pictures of him standing next to this bust. I'm just curious what you think. You know, in some ways, it seems like the culture wars that Republicans and Trump, in particular capitalized on are pretty on display in what Jamie is reporting here.
JENNINGS: Yeah, I mean, these people are too fragile to show up for work. I mean, the Kennedy Center is like Americas theater. I mean, the president appoints the people who are on the board of the Kennedy Center. We use it for all kinds of big national events, no matter who the president is.
And so, it's kind of sad to me that these folks are choosing to grind personal political axes instead of going to work at the Kennedy Center. I mean, most people in America don't have the luxury of being able to call in sick from politics, but it sounds like that's what these people did.
HUNT: Xochitl?
HINOJOSA: Well, I think that Trump has politicized the Kennedy Center when he made himself the head of the Kennedy Center. So, I don't think that this is on the employees or anything else. I think that there is, you know, you're right that the Kennedy Center has been a place in Washington, D.C., that every president has really enjoyed and every people who live here, Republican or Democrat, have been there and enjoyed the arts there. And it's something that you can take your family to, et cetera.
But I think that in recent weeks, we've now seen the politicization of it, and it will be interesting to see how far this goes, what kind of performances do they have there that Trump brings, right? There have been rumors that he -- there -- you know, he might there are rumors that he wants to bring the January 6th choir. There are things like that.
And that would be heartbreaking for D.C. And so, I think that him being the head of it has politicized this whole thing.
HUNT: Yeah. I want to be clear. I'm not -- I'm not straight on what CNNs reporting is on the January 6th choir, although that is, of course, something that Trump also played at his rally. In addition to Les Mis.
Elliot Williams, I want to play this moment where J.D. Vance recently went to a performance at the Kennedy Center. Here's what happened. Take a look.
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HUNT: So, as you can hear there, Elliot, this was March 13th. This was shortly after the president had announced his plans to boot. David Rubenstein from the head of the Kennedy Center and become president himself.
WILLIAMS: And I think the important point you're saying there is booting David Rubenstein. I just don't think we can fire the board of the Kennedy Center, injecting a measure of politics into the Kennedy Center that might or might not have been there and then complain that people who are performing there are acting in a political manner. It is a politicized process.
And I think the president threw gasoline on that with his actions with respect to the board.
HUNT: Jamie?
GANGEL: Can I just add? This goes beyond politics. I just -- Trump wrote on Truth Social in February, quote: No more drag shows or other anti-American propaganda. Only the best. Ric, welcome to show business to Ric Grenell.
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This is not about fragile people not showing up to work. This is about all actors, artists feeling welcome and included at the Kennedy Center.
HUNT: All right, coming up next here, we've got breaking news out of Memphis about the officers that were involved in the beating death of Tyre Nichols. We'll talk about that.
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HUNT: All right, some breaking news here. A verdict has just been reached in the Tyre Nichols case.
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This is at the state level. Three former Memphis police officers involved in his beating death have been acquitted on state charges.
CNN correspondent Isabel Rosales has been following this story for us.
Isabel, bring us up to speed on what happened in this case, because, of course, it seems to differ from what happened at the federal level.
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And, Kasie, the Shelby County D.A., says that they are disappointed in this verdict. So, now, these three former Memphis police officers have been found not guilty on all of the state charges. This is important. The state charges, the most serious of which are second degree murder.
These officers are Tadarrius Bean, Demetrius Haley and Justin Smith, Jr. There was a total of five police officers originally implicated in this fatal beating. The two other officers that I have not mentioned, they had deal agreements, plea agreements with the prosecutors to not stand trial, and instead they pled guilty to these state charges.
Now, let's go back to 2023. This is where all of this started as a traffic stop. Tyre Nichols, a 29-year-old Black man and a father. He ran from this traffic stop after he was yanked out of a car. He was pepper-sprayed and he was hit with a taser.
The five officers, also Black, they caught up to him. And then we had those images from a pole camera, police pole camera that captured that graphic footage of these officers punching, kicking and hitting Nichols with a police baton.
And then that moment where you can hear Nichols crying out for help and calling out for his mother, he was just steps away from his home. He died three days later. His death led to nationwide protests and calls for police reform, all of that increasing in volume.
Now, this state trial, this was nine days. The jury, all which appeared to be white jurors. They took 8.5 hours to deliberate over two days, again finding those three former police officers not guilty on all state charges.
I want to go now to a statement from attorneys Ben Crump and Antonio Romanucci. They are civil rights attorneys connected to this case. Here's what they said: Today's verdicts are a devastating miscarriage of justice. The world watched as Tyre Nichols was beaten to death by those sworn to protect and serve. That brutal, inhumane assault was captured on video. Yet the officers responsible were acquitted. Tyre's life was stolen and his family was denied the justice they so deeply deserve.
We are outraged and we know we are not alone. And, Kasie, you asked about the federal charges. This is not the end of the line for this story, for this case of Tyre Nichols. That sentencing for the federal case had been postponed until the state trial could go through. But that, of course, is pending. And these officers, they do face prison time for these federal charges.
HUNT: All right. Isabel Rosales for us. Isabel, thank you very much for that.
Elliot Williams, let me go to you on this. Obviously, you heard what the lawyers say. They call this a miscarriage of justice. How might what happened in the state courtroom impact federal sentencing here?
WILLIAMS: Oh, it certainly can, because the judge can consider other conduct that was not charged in a case, but is relevant to that defendant when sentencing somebody. So, certainly, the judge can look to that and look at the broader implications of the case and how they have behaved. Have they accepted responsibility? What was the nature of the actions and just deciding how long they should go to jail for?
HUNT: Yeah. Xochitl, how do you look at -- you know, obviously this case did spark protests across the country. It's of course not the only tragedy we have seen with a black man and an encounter with police that ended in, in tragedy.
WILLIAMS: Absolutely. These cases have great impact on the community. And I think that you saw Ben Crumps statement that says just that. I mean, especially when they feel like justice hasn't in the federal matter. You know, they -- they weren't convicted of the highest crimes.
But I think the reality is, is that there are more systemic problems happening in Memphis, and it really impacts the community, as the Justice Department had a criminal civil rights investigation, but they also had a civil pattern or practice investigation where they released findings in December and they talked about use of excessive force. They talked about, racial profiling of African Americans. They talked about unlawful stop searches and seizures, all of these things in a normal justice department.
What you would then do is work with the police department to then put, put together reforms, put together proper training. Many times, these law enforcement officers don't have training. Unfortunately, the -- this Justice Department, they decimated the civil rights division. They don't plan on moving forward with any reforms. And so, you have these findings and nothing to show.
WILLIAMS: I would note quickly, most of the time, the police department welcomes the contributions, the Justice Department and they collaboratively work together, it happened in Baltimore, Ferguson, Missouri, and elsewhere where they all come together and come to some agreement, a consent decree and sort of look to the future.
So, the idea that it's just the Justice Department wagging its finger and telling local police departments what to from on high just simply isn't true.
HUNT: All right. Thank you all very much for joining us today. Really appreciate it.
Thanks to all of you at home for joining with us as well. Don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
