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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump Floats Raising Taxes On The Rich; Federal Judge Orders Immediate Release Of Detained Tufts Student; Newsom Hits Trump Over Tariffs In New Ad; Prosecutor: New Jersey Mayor Arrested By ICE Detention Center Where He Was Protesting; Leo XIV Celebrates First Mass As New Pope. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 09, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:02]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, well, not so fast as the South Side. The White Sox also claiming Pope Francis -- Pope Leo does that. That's his Francis. I think that should say pope Leo.
Yeah. We can't even move on, right? Okay.
But who is it, really?
Pope Leo's brother, John Prevost, telling CNN affiliate WBBM, he's a Sox fan, people. He is a Sox fan.
What do you think of that, Boris?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: He's got to have some faith. Sheesh. They haven't been good in a long time.
KEILAR: All right. That's it for us.
"THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's the rubber versus the road.
Let's head into THE ARENA.
Right now, the new reality for the White House on two major priorities. The president raising the possibility of raising taxes on some Americans and offering a new concession today ahead of U.S. talks with China tomorrow.
Also this hour, breaking news on a Tufts University student taken off the street by immigration officials back in March, a judge ordering her immediate release after six weeks in detention.
Plus, on Pope Leo's first full day on the job, we'll talk with the president of Villanova, one of the pope's alma maters, here live this hour.
(MUSIC)
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. We start this hour with something once that we don't get to say very
often or really ever. The Republican president of the United States opening the door to -- wait for it -- raising taxes as we come on the air, the White House appears ready to try to make sure that Republican lawmakers fall in line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Anyone who opposes this bill will be opposing the largest tax cut in American history. They will be voting to raise taxes by the tune of 4 trillion on the middle class of this country, and we look forward to holding them accountable for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: We're, of course, talking about the president's massive legislative agenda still winding its way through Congress. Republicans now facing the reality that it is going to cost a lot of real money, and they need a real way to pay for it.
So, what are the options? Cutting Medicaid, chopping Social Security, not super popular, especially among the newly converted working class voters that now form the bedrock of President Trump's support.
And at a time when President Trump's trade war is injecting unprecedented uncertainty into the global economy, there's news on that, too. A possible concession to lowering tariffs on China ahead of the first talks this week. We'll have more on that in a moment.
President Trump is now signaling a willingness to raise taxes on the ultra wealthy as a way to fund his priorities here at home. But do notice the asterisk, as with a lot of the president's comments and proposals, there does seem to be a caveat. The president acknowledged on social media today that he does, in fact, understand that raising taxes is politically risky. He wrote, quote, Republicans should probably not do it, but I'm okay if they do.
Now, this openness to having millionaires, billionaires, trillionaires pay more is not something totally new from President Trump. Just two weeks ago, he was asked by "Time Magazine" about this possibility. He said he loves the concept, but that, again, he doesn't want it used against him politically.
And, of course, historically, this has been quite a gamble. Just ask anyone involved in political campaigns past, particularly the 1992 campaign, when these six words changed everything.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Read my lips: no new taxes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That, of course, the 1988 campaign. Because guess how the 1992 campaign turned out? President Bush did go on to preside over a tax increase, and he never recovered after he broke that famous promise and he snapped a 12 year hold on the White House for Republicans.
So, let's back -- come back to present day in that same post, the probably not, but okay, if they do post from Trump today, the president acknowledged that moment from Bush 41, saying Democrats would go around screaming, quote, screaming, read my lips.
Now, of course, we don't know about screaming, but this is something that Democrats have been saying since billionaires basically began existing AOC.
You might remember, wore a gown that literally said "tax the rich". And of course, she wore that straight into the met gala in 2023. Quite a wealthy gathering, shall we say.
So, now, it is up to Republicans in congress and at least one senator saying the quiet part out loud that what Donald Trump wants, Donald Trump gets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MIKE CRAPO (R-ID): If the president weighs in in favor of it, then that's going to be a big factor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: But again, all President Bush had to do was talk about raising taxes.
[16:05:00]
That was enough for voters. Republicans and Democrats ultimately said, you're fired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: If you had it to do over again, would you banish that "Read my lips, no new taxes"?
BUSH: Yes, I wouldn't say that again.
INTERVIEWER: Maybe taxes or hopefully --
BUSH: No, I wouldn't even say that. I just signed an order. I'd say I'm going to cut your taxes and try to get it done, and then blame Congress when I didn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP))
HUNT: Oh, poor Peggy Noonan.
My panel is here. But first, let's start with CNNs senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes, with more on this.
Kristen, always wonderful to see you. Of course, there's been reporting out there as well that the president was on the phone with congressional leaders trying to push for this tax increase. It's worth noting that it would be on the very highest earners. So not the entirety of the current -- what is the current top tax bracket?
But I mean, how committed is he to this?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, they're still trying to figure out ways to pay for his top priorities. We know that he has a lot of very expensive top priorities. No taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime, just to name some of them.
And these things cost money. So, he is looking for different ways now. How committed is he? You saw that in "The Post" that he is saying that he would be open to it, but also they probably shouldn't do it. That's about as committed as you're going to get from Donald Trump right now, as he's trying to read the room to see what is actually doable when it comes to Congress. We know this time around, Donald Trump has had a lot more focus on what exactly is happening in Congress than he did the first time. So he's going to try to suss out where everyone stands before he actually commits to a position one way or the other.
So you're going to see a lot of this trying to walk the line, go back and forth waffling, if you will. Now, this is not the only economic issue that we've been hearing about nonstop at the White House today. We've also been hearing about these trade deals, in particular these conversations between Donald Trump's administration and the Chinese officials, their counterparts that are happening this weekend in Switzerland.
There is a lot of conversation of what exactly this is going to yield, because, of course, as we know right now, trade between the two countries is essentially at a grinding halt with that 145 percent tariff.
Donald Trump signaling he was willing to come down a little bit today. This morning, he posted on Truth Social, 80 percent tariff on China seems right up to Scott B. That is a reference to the treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, who's going to be leading those talks. But then later today, Karoline Leavitt, the press secretary, sought to clarify that this was only on the table if China was willing to make some concessions.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: He is not going to unilaterally bring down tariffs on China. We need to see concessions from them as well. And again, that's part of the reason that Secretary Bessent is going to talk to his Chinese counterparts this weekend to start those discussions in person. As for the 80 percent number, that was a number the president threw out there. And we'll see what happens this weekend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, one thing to note here, there's a lot of pressure on Scott Bessent. We have heard from administration officials who have been trying to tamp down expectations, but Donald Trump himself has said he hopes they are substantive -- substantive talks in Switzerland. Where they're going to go from here, really one thing to watch very closely.
HUNT: For sure. All right, Kristen Holmes, for us today -- Kristen, thanks very much.
Our panel is here, CNN political analyst, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno-Youngs; the host of "The Chuck Toddcast", Chuck Todd; CNN political commentator, former Biden White House communications director, Kate Bedingfield; and Republican strategist Erin Maguire.
Welcome to all of you.
Chuck Todd, I just want to kind of play a little bit because I got to tell you, this raising taxes thing from Republicans, I guess it's the natural end to the populist Republican Party that Donald Trump now leads. But like let's watch what Republicans in the past, beginning with Ronald Reagan, used to say about this topic. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: By lowering everyone's tax rates all the way up the income scale, each of us will have a greater incentive to climb higher.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Today, I am sending to Congress my plan to provide relief to all income taxpayers.
FORMER GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), ALASKA: Senator Obama has an ideological commitment to higher taxes. It's like he just can't help himself.
FORMER REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH): Tax hikes are off the table. The American people don't want us to raise taxes.
FORMER SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I'm going to bring rates down across the board for everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So there you have it. And let's not forget that the Democrats talking point is Republicans are going to raise your taxes.
CHUCK TODD, HOST OF "THE CHUCK TODDCAST": Yeah.
HUNT: Or yes, our -- we are going to -- are going to lower taxes for millionaires and billionaires taking that away.
TODD: Here's a dirty little secret about tax hikes on the rich. They're popular, okay? It is because most Americans are not rich, right? This is why so many Democratic politicians have been very comfortable going out there, going back to were going to get rid of the Bush tax cuts. And it was majority were in favor of it, right?
You know, it is a popular thing. And. You know, look this things all over the place. This tax bill negotiation. But was it a couple of weeks ago he floated the idea of no taxes at all on anybody in the first $200,000 of income? Well, if you're going to do that, you're going to have to go find money somewhere else.
[16:10:01]
And in some ways, figuring out how to fulfill the pledge on no taxes on tips, no taxes on Social Security and all that stuff, he probably has to come up with something that is create that income floor and then go up there and go find money somewhere else. So, it -- I actually think if he does it, it is good politics for him as he's trying to realign the party. But it's -- I just don't think this -- there's not enough of his Republicans in this congress, even though there are more than there were before, that are going to be, you know, as our friend Brad Todd has said before, Republicans were put on Earth to do one thing, cut taxes, right?
So I keep having that in my ear, too. And there's a lot of Republicans who say, Tom Cotton, people like that who are just this is not going to be something they're comfortable doing.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. It's two practical challenges for him. One, it is hurting a Republican caucus that, for the most part, does not want to do this either ideologically or fiscally. And he's already dealing with fiscal. Conservatives on the right who aren't comfortable with how much his proposals are going to cost.
He's dealing with the SALT. Republicans who have an incentive to do absolutely nothing because the SALT cap is going to expire at the beginning of 2026. So for those moderate Republicans who are going to go back to their districts and say, I did the thing that I said I was going to do, which was raise the SALT cap. Their interest is to do absolutely nothing.
HUNT: Functionally a tax cut for people who live in expensive blue areas. Exactly, exactly.
BEDINGFIELD: So -- so there's the herding cats. And there's also the devils in the detail, right? I mean, an income tax on the highest earners actually is not as significant a revenue raiser as a tax on capital gains or dividends. So it's -- you know, what does that look like? But Chuck's first point is absolutely right.
This is the single most from all of the polling, all the focus groups. This is one of the most effective Democratic lines of attack on -- on Trump's economic policies, which is that he's for the rich.
And so taxing the rich is -- it isn't 1988 anymore. Taxing the rich is actually quite popular.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And it's not only popular, but it's also more popular than cutting Medicaid, which it seems when you look at this price tag for this bill that they are trying to push through, even with this post today, I still don't see how they're going to avoid cutting social safety net programs and Medicaid, by the way, a program that many of the president's own supporters also rely on and people around him are aware of that here. So, you're trying to see them look for ways to pay for this massive
bill, but also avoid the political backlash that could come from taxing the rich when it comes to conservatives or cutting Medicaid. When it comes to a broad base of his supporters.
HUNT: Erin Maguire, you have worked in the House GOP conference. You have extensive experience. You know, a lot of these guys. I want to show you the more recent -- we looked at the past for, we don't want to raise rates on anybody. Let's look at just -- I mean, I'm looking at this. We got today, today, Tuesday, April 29th, April 15th, April 23rd.
Here's a list of all the times that Republicans were out saying that the president doesn't want to raise tax rates on anybody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN HASSETT, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC COUNCIL CHAIRMAN: The president is not a strong advocate of that.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): We don't want to raise taxes on anybody. I mean, we're about lowering taxes on Americans.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): I'd like to not see rates raise on anybody.
HASSETT: It's 100 percent not on the table to do that.
REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): I don't support that initiative.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I'm not in favor of raising the tax rates because that's -- our party is the group that stands against that traditionally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, do you think Mike Johnson's guys are going to be willing to do this if the president wants them to?
ERIN MAGUIRE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Right now, we're in the messy middle of actually getting the legislative work done. So, none of this, as of this point, is anything further than conjecture or conversation about what the bill is going to look like.
I would point you to the first comment there from Kevin Hassett, who said the president is not deeply wed to this idea. I think that's everything you're seeing right now, play out when it comes to trying to get all of these big policy proposals done.
And Republicans remain the same. They don't want to raise taxes. It's so tried and true. It's antithetical to the Republican Party to say, you want to raise taxes on anybody. We are cut the taxes party.
So, this is the part that is hard. I think, for those SALT members who do, are those moderate swing Republicans that are the majority makers. They're in expensive Democrat-run states like California and New York. Those SALT caps are going to be absolutely massive because it crushes the rest of the state that generally is not those major metropolitan areas.
That's that advocacy work that you're seeing happen right now. It's the messy middle. And let me tell you, the budget reconciliation process, it is a bumpy climb. Putting the duct tape on the plane in the air, especially in the Senate where you go through parliamentary procedure on each item that goes in it. That's what we're watching right now.
TODD: We checked on Grover Norquist. He like all these pledges.
About two weeks ago, he had this entire social media campaign. This is not going to happen this year. It's like -- and I think they thought they put this to bed.
HUNT: Yes.
TODD: And then President Trump resurrected it.
HUNT: With that one phone call. Chuck briefly, kind of big picture here. I mean, we were talking at the top about how suddenly the president is suggesting that these tariffs on China should go down to 80 percent. He seems to be negotiating away before Bessent sits down across the table. I mean, what's going on?
TODD: It looks to me more like telegraphing that he's almost signaling to markets, don't worry, guys, we're going to get something out of this.
He's now put his treasury secretary in a they have to walk away with something. And look, this has been -- this is not the art of the deal because he is handing away all this leverage he keeps handing. I mean, he keeps handing leverage that arguably we did have. Now, we have less leverage in there. And this is a little tougher on him.
He hasn't even begun the conversation. And all of a sudden, China knows, oh, he's got room to move like you are -- it's like going in. You already know that he's going to come down on the price. The question is, how far down would they come down on the price?
MAGUIRE: The conversation isn't that -- he's saying he's going to come down on the price. It's that he's giving him the tools to be able to say, this is an actual negotiation. We are giving you levers and opportunity. China, look, we're already flirting with you a little to say were willing to do this. If you come to the table, there's a real conversation here.
It's not anything other than that. I think, because at this point --
TODD: I think they feel the pressure.
MAGUIRE: He gets to walk in there and say, hey, I've got opportunity to negotiate with you. Let's have that conversation instead of coming in. And if he does walk away and somehow nothing gets done, it's going to be the strong arm where, hey, we came in, we were willing to negotiate. We had said we were willing to do that. They didn't want to do it. So, we got to come back to the table again.
TODD: If they're serious, then they shouldn't cut a deal this weekend. They should do what you just said, which is, see, we were and then I'll buy that. But that's not -- he seems. So sensitive, though. He seems so sensitive to just fixing his market problem right now, which is why I think this is -- he's in a box.
He keeps trying to solve this with a new cycle of good news in the markets, rather than thinking a little longer term.
HUNT: That we're going to pick it up on Monday with that news cycle.
Coming up next here, a federal judge has ordered -- just ordered the immediate release of a Tufts University student who was picked up off the street and detained by immigration officers.
Plus, the new details that we're learning about the pope's beginnings in Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Just talk to God, and not even he can help the White Sox. Sorry. First order of business, I'll be canonizing Michael Jordan.
Now, let's end by saying daaa prayers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:34]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
A federal judge in Vermont today ordering the immediate release of Rumeysa Ozturk. She's the Tufts University doctoral student from Turkey, seen here being detained by federal immigration officers back in March. Ozturk has not been charged with any crime and has spent the last six weeks in a Louisiana detention center. Her detention, one of several recent high-profile arrests of noncitizen students who participated in protests against the war in Gaza.
Our panel is back.
Zolan, this caught so much attention because of the nature of this video. Those people that seem to not have what you might expect in terms of a uniform on identifying who they were, kind of the abrupt way it all happened. According to, you know, to our reporting, you know, she has been released on bail here. What do you make of why this judge decided this this way? I mean, others have not had successful claims here.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Well, as you said that she wasn't charged with a crime. She hasn't been charged with a crime. But also, the judge had a really striking comment in this in which he said that the only evidence the government seemed to present was this op ed that this student wrote here, right? That's exactly the type of thing that comes up when I talk to legal experts about these kind of arrests, that suddenly this immigration crackdown now seems to be infringing on a constitutional right, that being the right to free speech.
And at that point, is this a crackdown on immigration, or has it broadened to a crackdown on dissent when it comes to the administration? You know, in other cases, you may have situations where we don't know the details of what people were engaging in in these protests and what activity they were in.
For this, the only evidence we really have is this written op-ed. And again, to remind people these arrests are rooted in this obscure law that the administration is using here, where they're arguing that student that those on a student visa or with a green card, if they're engaging in activity that would undermine U.S. foreign policy, then they can have that status rescinded and then attempt to deport them. Thats really broad activity that would undermine foreign policy. It really leaves it to the discretion at this point. And here you saw judge saying, what evidence do you have? Just an op ed.
HUNT: Yeah. Chuck, is this just about the fact that the judge was in Vermont here? I mean, one of the things that's defined some of these cases is people fighting for the venue that they're going to be part of, right? Some of these cases for these people who've been sent to Louisiana, where it's played out in Louisiana. You know, in this case, this was a judge in Vermont is a quite different jurisdiction.
TODD: It is. And I think there's -- there is some to that. But I think the reason this is where it's at is because of this missing piece of evidence that the government hasn't been able to present, which is what, beyond the op-ed, right? And this is -- this gets back, I can't -- it's amazing to me how we have to have a civics lesson here, but it's like the Constitution applies to anybody in the borders, right? And so, you have free speech while you're in the United States of America, regardless of whether you're a citizen or not.
And it does seem as if the what, what I the government hasn't said this, but it's coming across as well. Citizens have these rights, but non-citizens don't. And I think ultimately that is feels as if what's -- what's -- what's really under, you know, sort of what -- what's being debated but not being said out loud.
HUNT: Right.
Kate Bedingfield, of course, the president spoke to NBC News about this.
[16:25:02]
Let's -- let's watch what both the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, had to say about who's entitled to due process under the Constitution versus what the president said. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Is everyone on U.S. soil, citizens and non-citizens entitled to due process?
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, of course.
WELKER: Your secretary of state says everyone who's here citizens and non-citizens deserve due process. Do you agree, Mr. President?
TRUMP: I don't know, I'm not -- I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I'm not a lawyer. I don't know, he says. But Rubio is clear. I mean, to Chuck's point, citizens, noncitizens, you're here. You're entitled to it.
BEDINGFIELD: Rubio is clear. The law is clear. The Constitution is clear.
I -- you know, for the president to try to obfuscate and suggest that somehow it's not -- it's not his obligation and that this isn't. A fundamental underpinning and has not been a fundamental underpinning of how our justice system and how civil society in this country has worked, essentially, since the founding of the nation is absurd.
And the facts of this case are -- are frightening. I mean, as Zolan was saying, you have somebody who authored an op-ed that essentially the administration didn't. Like and then was summarily pulled off the streets and held in confinement.
And I think it is it is hard to look at that and not say, this is, first of all, this is fundamentally anti-American. And second of all, this is an incredibly slippery slope.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here. What does the future of the Democratic Party looks like? Look like someone who is hoping to be part of that future, Michigan candidate for governor, Jocelyn Benson, is going to join us live right here in THE ARENA.
Plus, what Gavin Newsom just said about his weekend plans and how they involve Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:13]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: California is now the fourth largest economy in the world -- innovation, manufacturing, agriculture. And we've done it by reducing trade barriers and delivering for American consumers.
But the Trump administration is putting all of that at risk, halting delivery of essential goods through our ports. Today, it's school backpacks. In a few months, it will be Christmas toys. These tariffs punish families and risk ending Americas run as the world's greatest economy. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. That right there coming soon to Fox News viewers across the country, the Democratic governor of California, Gavin Newsom, jabbing at President Trump and the tariffs with that new national ad that is set to air in a place that we know the president watches.
Chuck Todd, another entry into the Gavin Newsom, you know, presidential, 2028 presidential campaign. Is this something that is likely to provoke the president? What do you make of what he's doing there?
TODD: It may that -- well, Gavin Newsom wants it to provoke the president. Let's be sure.
HUNT: Right. That is -- I think that is the intent that he wants to do that.
I -- you know, I don't know how much -- look, Gavin Newsom has his own political problems. He's very unpopular in California. He is, in fact, there was during the closing days of the of the campaign. There were congressional Democratic races out there. He wanted to help, and they were like, please don't come because there was just -- look, it is not -- people aren't happy. Everybody running for governor out there is trashing the last eight years of governance.
So, you know, I get what he's trying to do. He's trying to get into the national conversation. I you know, so if he gets if he's able to provoke Trump and he may be helping the party as a whole, I'm just very skeptical of where -- of Newsom's own political sort of future here in the short term, because I think he's got to -- he's got to get his politics improved at home, I think, before he takes this gig -- before he takes his gig. National.
HUNT: Yeah.
MAGUIRE: So there's two points here. One, another great moment for Catholicism. We're talking about Christmas and TV ads right now. Look at the --
TODD: The war on Christmas.
HUNT: Don't have to be Catholics.
TODD: It's a -- it's a new war.
MAGUIRE: Well, it is the birth of Jesus Christ. You know, as a Roman Catholic myself. But I will say to the Gavin Newsom point here, he is going into political headwinds that are named Kamala Harris right now. They split off years ago, and she went to D.C. as a senator, and he stayed in California and ran for governor because they were both coming up at the same time.
Now they're both, what, going to run for president in '28 or she's going to run for governor? I doubt Kamala Harris is going to be very comfortable ceding the White House in any way, shape or form to Gavin Newsom coming up in this cycle.
So not only is he deeply popular with a plethora of policies that will make him very easy to run against on the national stage, he's got very strong headwinds in his own state and his own party.
HUNT: Well, let's sort of talk about how we got here, too, which is that of course, Kamala Harris lost this election. Joe Biden really lost this election to Donald Trump. And obviously, we spent yesterday talking about the pope, the new pope. But we also saw the Bidens on "The View".
I want to show you a little bit of what they had to say when they were pressed about just what happened to Joe Biden in the waning years of his presidency, that, of course, we all saw as a country when he took the CNN debate stage in June of 2024. Watch how they answered some of those questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: They are wrong. There's nothing to sustain that.
JILL BIDEN, FORMER FIRST LADY: The people who wrote those books were not in the White House with us, and they didn't see how hard Joe worked every single day. I mean, he'd get up, he'd put in a full day. Joe worked really hard. I think he was a great president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Kate Bedingfield, you got out of this yesterday, but were in the barrel today. I mean, you could see there Joe Biden --
BEDINGFIELD: A loyal CNN employee I am. I showed back up.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: Here you are.
I mean, honestly, you could see the dynamic there in that shot, right? I mean, he had one sort of brief thing to say. And then he's sitting next to her as she's defending him, looking down. Are they doing this ahead of these, you know, books that are expected to come out talking about this?
And what responsibility does he bear for what we're doing going through now?
BEDINGFIELD: Well, he said in the interview that he bears responsibility, which I thought was an important thing for him to say. I think probably one of the most effective communications, outcomes of that interview was him kind of striking that grace note and, and humility, and saying he takes responsibility. I thought that was effective.
It's less effective to have Dr. Biden explaining how -- answering the taking on the mental acuity question on his behalf. But I will say, as somebody who obviously worked very closely with them for a very long time, don't forget that this is very personal for them and very personal for her. And you can understand how these kinds of attacks on your husband, your family member would bring up this intensity for you.
So when I watch that, what I saw was a reflection of the marriage that I saw play out while I worked for them, and I saw her personal intensity in defending her husband. Would it have been better for him to be making that argument? Yes, of course, but I saw a human moment and not a calculated one.
HUNT: All right.
Joining us now is Michigan's Democratic secretary of state and Michigan gubernatorial candidate, excuse me, Jocelyn Benson. She's also the author of the new memoir, the purposeful warrior standing up for what's right when the stakes are high.
Jocelyn, thank you very much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. We are talking here about the past and the future for the Democratic Party, and I'm interested in how you see this. Why do you think Democrats lost the election to Donald Trump?
JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: I think every minute we're not talking about the economy and how were going to drive down the cost of living and increase access to greater wages. And then voters are tuning us out.
And so for me, when you look at who won Michigan in 2024, it was candidates, not just Donald Trump, who won by 80,000 votes out of 5.7 million, but candidates like Elissa Slotkin, who talked about the economy, candidates like Haley Stevens, Hillary Skolten, Kristen McDonald Rivet talked about the economy.
So, in my view, I think. Democratics -- the Democratic Party needs to listen more to voters and see the struggles that they're going through and respond to them with solutions and then actually implement those solutions. At the state level, we've worked to do that as well. Thats why you've seen, I believe, Democrats succeed. I won my reelection by 14 points in 2022 because we've been able to administer government in a way that saves people time, saves people money and makes their lives easier.
And that's ultimately what voters want from their leaders.
HUNT: You, of course, really came to prominence on the national stage because of how you responded to what happened in the 2020 election, when President Trump insisted that the election was stolen. I was at the Capitol in -- on January 6th, 2021, saw -- watched with my own eyes what happened that day.
In the intervening years, President Trump convinced many Americans that the story of what happened that day, the story of what had happened in the election, is different than what we all saw play out. I'm interested to know, especially considering and this is a big part of your book, how -- how it personally affected you. Your family was personally affected.
Why do you think there were so many people who -- who took that narrative on board, the one that he was selling? And what do you say to those people when they talk to you?
BENSON: I think it was really -- I mean, look, this was a tragic moment, the January 6th, it was -- it was -- it was a tragedy for our country. And I think what I saw in Michigan was that you had many ardent supporters of President Trump who really wanted to believe that he won.
And when he was out there with misinformation and he wasn't the only one spreading misinformation, but pouring gasoline on those flames, it enabled people to connect their own anger and frustration and wish that he had won with some sort of justification or explanation for his, for his loss, which was that someone else had cheated or rigged it, which wasn't true.
And so, to answer your question of what I say to folks who believe that it's -- it's that look at the facts, look at the truth. And transparency is our friend in that regard. We -- we have conducted over 250 audits at the local level, the state level. We did a full hand recount of the Antrim County election results, which was particularly in the ire of President Trump, because we wanted people to know the truth and have access to that information.
We also partnered with faith leaders, business leaders, community leaders to spread that trusted information out there. So, we've been working hard, even with Republican lawmakers as well. At the time state senators who did their own investigations and said, yep, the truth is, Trump lost in 2020. So, the -- all we can do is stand in the truth and the law in moments like that, and then engage and empower others to be trusted voices as well, to -- to break through the misinformation and help people see when they've been misled.
HUNT: Moving forward. I mean, obviously, the party has struggled in some ways to pick up the pieces of what happened in the 2024 election. I mean, at this point, who do you think is the leader of the Democratic Party?
BENSON: I think governors are -- are the leaders, Democratic governors, the leaders of the Democratic Party in this moment. And everyone is sort of having different experiences. But I look at Governor Whitmer, Governor Pritzker, Governor Mills, Governor Healey, Governor Shapiro, Governor Moore, Governor Walz and Governor Evers.
These are people who are speaking out, and who are focused on getting things done, making the lives of the residents in their states a little bit better, driving up the cost of living, especially as economic decisions at the federal level are driving or driving up the cost of living and making things more expensive. Governors are the ones who can actually try to make government work well for folks and cut costs, make housing more affordable, education and health care more accessible, and that are, frankly, trying to problem solve in this moment to protect our residents from the cruelty and chaos of this administration. HUNT: All right. Jocelyn Benson, thanks very much for your time today.
We'll, of course, be watching your campaign. I hope you'll come back soon.
Again, the book -- congratulations on the book, "The Purposeful Warrior: Standing Up For What's Right When The Stakes Are High".
All right, coming up, a New Jersey mayor arrested. We'll tell you why and show you the video.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:46:20]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We're back with some breaking news. Federal officials say the mayor of New Jersey's largest city, Newark, is under arrest. This happened outside an ICE detention center.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has been following this for us.
Priscilla, what do we know?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie, this has all been developing over the last hour. Now, what we know is that the Newark mayor was arrested at a detention facility that he had protested, which was opening this week.
Now, the arrest, according to witnesses on the ground, came after he tried to join a tour of the facility with three members of the New Jersey delegation.
According to those witnesses, some federal officials blocked the entry. There was later a heated argument that broke out, and then he was arrested.
Now, the interim U.S. attorney has since weighed in, saying that he trespassed and ignored warnings from Homeland Security personnel. We've also received a statement from the Department of Homeland Security which said, quote, the following members of Congress are not above the law and cannot illegally break into detention facilities. Goes on to say that this is an evolving situation.
Now, I will tell you that according to legislation that has been passed by Congress, members of Congress can go into ICE facilities without previous requests or special permissions. That is written into the law. That, however, does not apply to the mayor.
So, we're still trying to get some details as to what happened here. It did appear as though the members of Congress were able to take a tour of that facility, but clearly a heated confrontation that happened outside of this facility, it's known as the Delaney Hall. This facility is run by the private prison operator Geo Group.
So, again, Kasie, we're still following the developments here. But what we do know at this hour is that the Newark mayor has been arrested.
HUNT: All right. Priscilla Alvarez for us -- Priscilla, thank you very much.
Chuck, this obviously something that the administration is eager to talk about. They claimed that members of Congress were holed up in a guard shack at the facility.
Is this -- I mean, can you dissect the politics of this a little bit, doing this and the kind of response it would generate?
TODD: Well, look, the Newark mayor is running for governor, and there's a primary in a month, so I'm not 100 percent convinced, though, that that's the best issue to be running in a statewide primary for governor right now. But look, I've -- I've been skeptical of this, too, as sort of a political issue. Is this a net positive for Democrats?
I've talked to a lot of Democrats who have been who show me polling that it is -- that it isn't a net negative per se, and that at the end of the day, they better get caught standing up for their principles, right? So but I'm -- I'm -- I'm --I share your skepticism on whether this is politically helpful because I do think though, you look at all the President Trump's polling, the one place where he still right side up is on immigration.
BEDINGFIELD: Yeah, I think for Democrats, the issue here, the issue that seems to be -- that there seems to be a real opening on, is the lawlessness of the way the Trump administration is proceeding. And so, it's less about driving a sense that Democrats are opposing some of the tougher immigration policies that the administration is putting in place. But Democrats seeking opportunities to drive at the disrespect for the law, the willingness to defy court orders -- I mean, that is, generally speaking, an 80/20 issue in this country. People don't think the president should just be, you know, should just be flouting court orders.
So, you know, if the mayor here is, is kind of -- is driving at that, then then I think there's some -- I think there's some -- some potential. I think if this is solely an immigration issue, I'm a little more dubious about whether that's --
[16:50:04]
KANNO-YOUNGS: They seem to be trying to turn it from an immigration issue into a kind of civil liberties issue, one of due process.
You know, also in this case, this site is also a private detention facility. The president -- I believe the administration signed a 15- year-deal worth $1 billion. So, also, you then have the extension of this being an issue of also, you know, private prisons, too. But immigration alone, Democrats don't want to get into a battle on that. They want to spotlight some of the other arrests that we've been spotlighting, the lack of due process as well. You know, whether or not this protest is actually a flashpoint in that political debate, we're going to have to see. HUNT: All right, coming up next here from Villanova to the Vatican,
the president of Villanova University joins us live here in THE ARENA to talk about his friend, and the school's alumnus becoming pope.
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[16:55:37]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: The new pope actually graduated from Villanova University.
It's wild that we have a pope who might have done a keg stand outside an Eagles game. Isn't that right? Might have, might have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Emphasis on might have.
The Internet having a field day with our first American pope. The memes are endless. And the pope's hometown paper might have one front page: "Da Pope!" Come on, it's great. Today, reality set in for Catholics around the world.
Pope Leo XIV opened his papal homily, get this, in English.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV, CATHOLIC CHURCH: Through the ministry of Peter, you have called me to carry that cross and to be blessed with that mission, and I know I can rely on each and every one of you to walk with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And Father Peter Donohue, the president of Pope Leo's alma mater, Villanova University, joins us now.
Father Donohue, I'm so grateful to have you. Has it sunk in yet that the new -- your new pope is a graduate of the college that you lead?
FR. PETER M. DONOHUE, PRESIDENT, VILLANOVA UNIVERSITY: Well, I always knew he was a graduate of the college that I lead, that he was going to be the pope has not sunk in yet. No.
HUNT: Tell me a little bit about what the reaction has been like on campus.
DONOHUE: Well, for the people that are here, it's been a rather exciting. We are just at the end of the semester, so we ended finals yesterday. And so the campus is kind of quiet. There's not many students around here. The seniors are around because we have graduation next weekend.
So, bells were ringing yesterday. People were scanning in the hallways, standing outside cheering. So, there was a great deal of enthusiasm about it.
HUNT: Can you talk a little bit about the now popes relationship with Villanova over the years? Obviously, he's a cardinal. He's been a high ranking official. Has he -- has he been back? I mean, what has his presence been like?
DONOHUE: The university is also kind of the center for the Augustinians on the East Coast. So, within the United States, this is a rather large Augustinian gathering space. So, when we have meetings, we use the university quite a bit for the facilities that are here. So, he has been here for those kinds of things. We offered him a -- we gave him an honorary degree back in 2014. So, he was very -- he was in (INAUDIBLE) for that.
So, he's been here for meetings. He has not been here since he was a cardinal, though.
HUNT: I want to play something that the now pope's brother had to say about how we here in the United States are dealing with the very contentious issue of immigration. Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN PREVOST, POPE LEO'S BROTHER: I don't want to speak for him, but I think he sees the United States as headed in the wrong direction in terms of immigration, that this is a total injustice. These are people -- doesn't matter where they're born, they are people first. And so, they need to be treated as people first. It's got to be -- I don't know how he would -- how he would handle that. It's a very difficult situation because you're going to offend someone one way or the other, no matter what.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: What have you heard from the new pope that suggests how you think he may lead on this issue, on his new global stage?
DONOHUE: I think for the church, whether it be Francis. Papacy that has just ended or with Leo XIV's papacy, the emphasis will always be on care for the individual and care for the people, that that is the most significant thing that we can do. We are called to really take care of the needs of our brothers and sisters. And I think that would be his message.
We need to form a community of people that really look to the needs of others. And I think they -- he will always speak out for the humanity of people.
HUNT: A nice thought, Father Peter Donohue, very grateful for your time. Thank you very much for being here, sir.
DONOHUE: You -- you're welcome. Thank you. Bye-bye.
HUNT: All right. Phil Mattingly is standing by. He's filling in for Jake Tapper on "THE LEAD". And, Phil, I will say we concluded yesterday with the Cubs tweet that
Pope Leo is a Cubs fan. The White Sox have something to say about that today.
