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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Now: Trump Meeting GOP Holdouts With Tax Bill In Peril; Trump Pushes Unsubstantiated Claims Of "White Genocide" During a Contentious Meeting With South African President; NJ Dem Rep. LaMonica McIver Makes Virtual Court Appearance On Charges Related To ICE Incident; Jury Dismissed, Combs' Former Assistant To Continue Testimony Tomorrow. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 21, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: -- there have been four popes since the last time the Dolphins won a playoff game, would vote to allow another team to have a distinct competitive advantage.
[16:00:09]
We don't try to push push because we can't do it because our offensive line has been terrible for years. Nevertheless, push on.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: You're taking sides against the Dolphins?
SANCHEZ: I find some of their decisions questionable. Yes.
KEILAR: I -- I'm speechless.
SANCHEZ: Are they going to win the Super Bowl this year? You bet.
Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: It's Republicans versus Republicans.
Let's head into THE ARENA.
Right now at the White House, the president is meeting with Republican hardliners, pressing them to get on board with passing his, quote, big, beautiful bill as soon as tonight.
And as we come on the air, look at the stocks falling dramatically, the Dow tumbling more than 700 points on fears that the bill will hurt the deficit.
Plus, awkward moments in the Oval Office. President Trump welcomed South Africa's leader and then launches into unsubstantiated claims of white genocide. Ahead, details on that meeting and a fact check on those allegations.
And then make sure you get a gift receipt the Pentagon announces that it has accepted an ultra luxurious jumbo jet from Qatar. I'll speak with Republican Representative Dusty Johnson and ask him what it means for the U.S. to outsource Air Force One.
(MUSIC)
Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. It is great to have you with us on this Wednesday. Kasie Hunt is off. I'm Pamela Brown.
And right now in Washington, a critical meeting is underway at the White House. President Trump hosting members of the House Freedom Caucus who are still a no when it comes to the so-called big, beautiful bill to advance Trump's sweeping agenda. Those holdouts asking for more time and standing in the way of Trump's desire to see that bill passed tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANDY HARRIS (R-MD): I don't think it can be done today. I mean, the runway is short today.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): We're going to work with the president today. We're going to work with our colleagues to deliver. But there's a long way to go.
REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): There's some kind of belief in Washington, D.C., that once today comes and goes that this cannot be fixed. This is a completely arbitrary deadline set by people here to force people into a corner to make bad decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The two biggest sticking points, Medicaid and clean energy. The hardliners want to see bigger cuts to what they say is fraud, waste and abuse in Medicaid. And they want to see all funding for clean energy programs stripped from the bill.
Now, a source inside the administration telling CNN that the White House previously presented the Freedom Caucus with a set of policy options. But going into today's meeting, there was still no deal. Right now, the Dow closing down.
Now, as you see right here, more than 800 points, that's just shy of 2 percent. The markets concerned over estimates from the Congressional Budget Office that says that this bill will add $2.3 trillion to the deficit over the next ten years. And that's a concern that many Republicans, even those who plan to vote for the bill, are sharing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEITH SELF (R-TX): My concern about the deficit and the debt is tremendous. This bill in its entirety, the way it was written, we would go from $36 trillion now in debt to $56 trillion minimum in 10 years.
REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): Currently, the bill spends more. Money than it would than the status quo. I mean, so it doesn't actually help deficits. It actually hurts the deficits.
REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): I'm a deficit hawk. I'm not happy with this bill, but it's probably the best we're going to get right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Yeah. And the CBO actually projecting nearly $4 trillion to the deficit over ten years.
My panel is here along with CNN's Manu Raju, he is live on Capitol Hill.
Manu, you talked with the speaker just before this meeting. Where do things stand at this hour?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, the speaker is still pressing ahead and the pressure campaign is on in the hopes that that these members who are demanding more time ultimately will bend to Donald Trump's will and demand and get behind their push to pass this out of the House as soon as tonight.
That was a message from Speaker Johnson and his chief deputy, the house majority leader, Steve Scalise, as they left for the White House, indicating they still plan to press ahead to keep to their push to try to get this bill out of the House before Memorial Day. When I asked the speaker if he would give the hardliners more time to negotiate as they've been demanding, he indicated it was time to vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Are you going to put this bill on the floor tonight? Are you going to give the Freedom Caucus more time like they're demanding?
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Look, we're going to have a discussion at the White House about that. We're trying to get the bill in as best possible form. And we were trying to meet our deadline for the votes. The president's called for it. Weve been saying this for many months, and we will do it before Memorial Day. And I intend to hold the discussion.
REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA), MAJORITY LEADER: We've been continuing to work through issues, but we also have known that we've got to keep the bill moving because there's a lot more steps in this process. And the Senate, of course, has to go and do their work. You know, you've got other things like the debt ceiling in the bill that do have timelines.
[16:05:02]
RAJU: So, you're going to go tonight. That's your intention.
SCALISE: Tonight's the vote (ph). We're moving forward with the vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: But it's going to require a lot of those holdouts to change their positions and get on board. Remember, only three Republican defections. That's all that Johnson can afford to get this over the finish line. And he's managed to placate concerns from the more centrist wing of the Republican conference, cutting deals on a number of issues, including the amount that people can deduct on state and local taxes.
But that deal that he cut, mainly with those Northeast Republicans, New York Republicans, that caused anger on the right because it would increase the price tag. But the calculation of the leadership was cut a deal with the moderates and hope the conservatives bend to what Donald Trump is demanding. The question, though, is will they do that? And this meeting now has been going on for about an hour -- Pamela.
BROWN: All right. Manu Raju, we'll be tracking that meeting at the White House. Thank you so much.
My panel joins me now, CNN political analyst and White House correspondent for "The New York Times," Zolan Kanno-Youngs, CNN political commentator, Jonah Goldberg, Democratic strategist Adrienne Elrod, and CNN senior political commentator, Scott Jennings.
All right, so here we have this meeting at the White House with the GOP holdouts. Johnson wants the vote today. Clearly, that doesn't seem to be happening.
Where do you see this going, Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They may get there. I mean, it's intense when you put members of Congress into the White House, and get the president of the United States, looking them in the eye and saying, do you want to be the Republican that goes home and tells your constituents that you were the person that stopped the America first agenda? Because I'm sure that's the conversation that's happening right now.
So, I have optimism and I think the speaker's office, from what I can tell, still has optimism that they might get this done here before they leave for the weekend. I will just say, whatever they do, it still has to go tangle with the Senate. You know, there's two parties in Washington, the House and the Senate, and one party will finish and then the other party will take it up. And we'll be having these conversations all summer.
But getting over this hurdle to show the Republicans that put all these people in office and progress is a big political deal for the Republican Party.
BROWN: Yeah. And just in terms of the timeline, you heard Andy Harris today, sort of the chairman of the Freedom Caucus come out and say, look, this could be another 10 days until we vote on this. You heard Representative Chip Roy say, we have a long way to go.
Again, this was before they're meeting with President Trump at the White House. That, of course, could change things.
I want to listen to this sound from Congressman Harris about this bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: This bill actually got worse overnight. There is no way it passes today and I I've said all along, we may need a couple of weeks to iron everything out, but it's not going anywhere today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: What is the significance of that? The longer that this goes on, Jonah?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the problem is the longer these things go on, the harder it gets to get them passed, right? So I think that's part of the sort of pull the band-aid, get this over with, kick it to the Senate.
Look, my priors have been from the beginning. Eventually, something passes because for exactly the argument that Scott's making, which is that the stakes for Republicans are so much -- are so much worse if it doesn't.
So eventually, who knows what deals are going to be made and all that kind of stuff. Like, as a fiscal conservative, I think this whole thing is a is a hate crime, but it's going to pass and then the senate is going to go nuts with it and change it in ways that are completely going to overturn what the House agreed to. And then you're going to have this reconciliation thing.
So, this is going to be something we'll be talking about on here all summer long.
BROWN: Let's talk about the fiscal conservatism, though, because the CBO came out. That's the Congressional Budget Office. It's nonpartisan. It says this bill would force cuts to Medicare, will take from the poor and give to the rich. Nearly 9 million people will lose access to health insurance. It will increase the deficit by nearly $4 trillion. That is what they are estimating.
I mean, you have to ask about Republicans and being willing to run on that next year.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. You have, you know, one faction that's obviously concerned about the fiscal nature of this and how much it will cost. But you have also, you know, conservatives that are also worried about cuts to the social safety net and programs like Medicaid and Medicare. And the political backlash that will come with those cuts. Those are programs that many of the president's own supporters also rely on here.
So, you do have those nerves, but this, this whole scenario, were talking about the timing of this when the White House is also made clear that this -- and the passage of this bill, the president views it almost as a loyalty test here. You saw him say yesterday, look, if you don't want to support this, you might not be a Republican much anymore.
There was an OMB, Office of Management and Budget statement that also used the word "betrayal" as well. This is -- this is much stronger than just a message of him saying, you know, are you how are you going to answer your constituents? He is making clear that he sees the actions of Republicans in Congress here as a real measure of their loyalty to the White House and to him.
BROWN: Yeah. I mean, you saw what he said about Rep Massie, who's a no on this, who clearly isn't going to change his mind that he shouldn't even be -- he should be voted out of office, basically, is what he said.
And we're also seeing a little bit about how Republicans will message this if this does not pass the House, Adrienne.
[16:10:06]
ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah.
BROWN: Rep. Barr from my home state of Kentucky was on CNN earlier today. And here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): For the life of me, I don't know why anyone Democrat or the grandstanders would vote against this bill. I think it's political suicide. Voting against this bill is voting for a $4 trillion tax increase. It's voting for increases on taxes on middle income Americans. It's voting on for tax increases on tips, tax increases on overtime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: What do you say to that?
ELROD: Well, look, I don't -- I don't understand if you are one of the 12 to 20 or so vulnerable Republicans that, you know, won in a very marginal district this last time around, how you can actually go home, look your constituents in the eye, many of whom to the point you made earlier -- the point you made earlier, are -- benefit from the social safety net programs, benefit from Medicaid, benefits from Social Security and say, I voted for the largest reduction in Medicaid -- to Medicaid in the history since the program has been incepted.
So how do you actually go home to do that? And I will tell you this, Scott, Democrats will remember, there will be a lot of money spent in these districts for Republicans who voted for this bill, making sure that every single one of their constituents is aware of the cuts that they made to their programs and how they are actually affecting their lives adversely.
JENNINGS: I have no doubt that Democrats will spend money complaining about this, because anything that we take away from illegal aliens, Democrats go --
ELROD: We're not talking about immigration.
JENNINGS: We're talking about --
ELROD: We're talking about safety --
JENNINGS: We're talking about illegal aliens being kicked off of Medicaid. And we're talking about able bodied people needing to show some kind of work product here. That's what we're talking about in this program. It's a massive program, and it costs a lot of money. And there's -- I think even --
ELROD: Four trillion dollars added to the debt according to the CBO.
JENNINGS: According to the CBO, like $500 billion of possible waste, fraud and abuse in this program. There is -- there are ways to cut this that doesn't impact a single person who actually needs it. And I would --
ELROD: Well, then, this bill is not doing that.
(CROSSTALK)
ELROD: This bill is not doing that.
JENNINGS: I would be more than happy to go and run a campaign and say, we took this away from illegal aliens so we can shore it up for you.
ELROD: That's not what this bill does. Thats not what this bill does.
BROWN: Undocumented immigrants, they're not eligible for Medicaid. Now, of course, there are circumstances if they go to a hospital and there's emergency Medicaid and so forth, that is available for them. But -- right, but I just -- I do want to just follow up on that because even for the work requirements, I'm wondering what do you make of the timing of this?
So, initially, it was 2029 and then the GOP hardliners wanted 2027. What do you make of the fact that it starts right after the midterms?
JENNINGS: I mean, I would like them to start tomorrow. I mean, most Republicans I know don't understand -- a lot of working class people that I know don't understand, like, why do I have to get up and go to work every day, pay my taxes, and do and play by all these rules? And there's a whole bunch of people in this country who do none of that, and somehow they got better health care than me. They got better benefits than me from the government.
I think the prevailing attitude is, is if you're an able bodied person and you're not at home taking care of kids and you're not taking care of people at home, and you could get up and go to work, that's exactly what you need to do.
And if you still need the help, fine. But these work requirements are going to force people off grandma's couch and back into the workforce. And well still help you if you're willing to help yourself. But that's the message of the Republican Party.
BROWN: All right. Well, we will see how it plays out in the politics part of this. And if this bill passes, were keeping a close eye on the White House, where President Trump is meeting with some of those GOP holdouts right now.
And we're going to have more on these talks with Republican Congressman Dusty Johnson. He joins us later this hour.
And up next, another oval office meltdown. President Trump ambushing the president of South Africa and pushing unsubstantiated claims of genocide.
Plus, what a Democratic member of Congress is saying after her first court appearance today after being charged with assault by the Justice Department.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:18:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're taking people's land away from them.
CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: We haven't. We have not.
TRUMP: They're being executed, and they happen to be white. And most of them happen to be farmers. And that's a tough situation. I don't know how you explain that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, President Trump standing firm on his unsubstantiated claims that there is a white genocide happening in South Africa. The South African president, sitting in awkward silence at one point as Trump presented what he calls evidence of white Afrikaners being targeted.
CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes joins us live from the White House.
All right, Kristen, take us through what happened in this pretty extraordinary oval office meeting.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Pamela, we knew that this was going to possibly be tense, but we certainly didn't expect this to unfold the way that it did. Usually, these brief moments in front of the press are just greetings with a couple of waving, a little bit of small talk. Usually, the leaders say nice things about each other, and then the cameras leave, and it becomes more of a negotiation behind closed doors.
That is not what we saw. This entire thing played out on camera, which is what Donald Trump and the administration wanted it to do. They were clearly prepared.
It started out pleasant enough. Between these two leaders. We knew that there were tensions between them because Donald Trump had been making these accusations of white genocide. But we heard from the leader of South Africa saying that he wanted a reset. Everything took a turn after this moment. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What would it take from you -- for you to be convinced that there is no white genocide in South Africa?
RAMAPHOSA: Well, I can answer that for president. It's for him. No, seriously --
TRUMP: I'd rather have him answer.
RAMAPHOSA: I know the answer.
(LAUGHTER)
RAMAPHOSA: That it will take President Trump listening to the voices of South Africans, some of whom are his good friends, like those who are here. I would say if there was Afrikaner farmer genocide, I can bet you these three gentlemen would not be here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:20:03]
HOLMES: So after this moment, Donald Trump then called for one of his aides to pull in a big screen and essentially put up a video of a far- left political party chanting about killing farmers. He went to use this as evidence of white genocide. It was incredibly tense moment during this video. They clearly came prepared.
When the video was over, Donald Trump presented the South African president with a several articles that he had had printed out and were on his lap, which he also said purported evidence of white genocide.
And then that confrontation led to a pushback from the South African president as well as the delegation saying that this was a small section of a political party, a far-left extremist political party. It was an opposition party. It is not part of the law of the land. This is not showing genocide. It was showing somewhat of a political demonstration. But you could see the back and forth.
And Donald Trump, a really tripling down on this notion of white genocide, despite the pushback that we still aren't sure where this ended, because at certain point, the conversation kind of fell off. They started going back and forth talking about golf at one point, but you could hear the tension there as they went through this.
And again, this was the White House really putting this all on display to have this confrontation in front of the cameras.
BROWN: All right. Kristen Holmes live for us from the White House -- thank you. Kristen.
CNN correspondent Larry Madowo joins us now from Nairobi, Kenya.
Larry, how is this being viewed in South Africa right now?
LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This was a good day for South Africa's white supremacists because they had their talking points repeated by the president of the United States and South African President Cyril Ramaphosa had to try and push back gently in a way that does not antagonize his hosts.
We've heard from the AfriForum CEO, Kallie Kriel, who we spoke to just before this meeting, and even he had fallen short of calling this a white genocide. But what he told us is that there's a genocidal call. He's now telling us he thinks this meeting went well, and it shows that the South African president and the ANC party cannot sweep the issues in South Africa under the carpet.
We also heard from Julius Malema. He's the man you saw in that video President Trump played singing "Kill the Boer, kill the farmer", which is an anti-apartheid song from the 1980s. It's become popular again because Julius Malema of the Economic Freedom Fighters likes to sing it. They argue that it's not a literal call to kill the farmer, but it's about their argument for land expropriation without compensation.
Julius Malema reacted on Twitter. He said: Some old men gathered in Washington to gossip about me, but it will not distract him from their core message, which is that there needs to be that full land expropriation without compensation. We've looked into these claims of white genocide. We didn't find any. Between April and December 2024, there were 36 farm murders in South Africa according to police statistics, and only seven were farmers.
But there are issues in the country and those came to the fore in these kind of battling narratives between President Trump and President Trump -- President Trump and President Ramaphosa.
BROWN: All right. Thank you for those facts. Larry, stand by as we continue this discussion.
I want to bring back our panel.
Zolan, to start with you. I want to play this moment where Ramaphosa tried to push back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAMAPHOSA: That this criminality in our country, people who do get killed, unfortunately through criminal activity, are not only white people. The majority of them are black people and we have now utilizing --
TRUMP: The farmers are not black. I don't know if that's good or bad, but the farmers are not black.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The president continued to claim the unsubstantiated claim that this was white genocide. What was your takeaway from the meeting? Do you think that Ramaphosa met the moment here?
KANNO-YOUNGS: I think the South African president initially came to the meeting, and you actually saw him try to extend some olive branches. He tried to direct the conversation to trade, to critical minerals. He brought golfers that he knew the president would listen to if not listening to his delegation that was presented there.
And then when a reporter did ask about these false claims of white genocide, you also saw him try to explain the reality on the ground in his country that President Trump then dismissed. You saw him basically say that the data backs this up. Police statistics in South Africa do show that on the subject of killings, there are not mass killings of white South Africans in South Africa.
There have been gruesome killings of white farmers, individual cases of that. But it's a systemic. The police data shows that right now that white South Africans are not killed at a higher rate than any other South African.
There is a broad crime problem in South Africa. That is very different than a claim of genocide.
Then there's the issue of land. Well, under apartheid, you know, that apartheid led government made it very, very difficult, almost impossible for Black people to own farmland.
[16:25:05]
So now, you've seen this law passed earlier this year by the South African government that, yes, would take land, but it's subject to judicial review as well. And it has to be in the public interest. So, there's a lengthy process. It's not just like you're confiscating land as well.
That nuance also has not been articulated by President Trump here. So, you have these two issues, these two false claims. And this meeting, in a way, was the culmination of for years now, these -- these lobbyists -- of these Afrikaner groups have been traveling to Washington, talking to Republicans, also talking to this White House, this White House that has given them time, actually told us in a piece, described them as civil rights leaders as well.
And you're seeing the culmination of that lobbying campaign and the amplifying of these false descriptions of the reality on the ground in this country.
BROWN: How do you see it, Scott?
JENNINGS: Well, look, whether you call it a genocide or not, the facts are white farmers in South Africa have been murdered. A lot of people have tried to cover this up. A lot of people in I think media in the United States have tried to cover it up.
Obviously, the South African government doesn't want to talk about it. So, it was kind of a boss move for Donald Trump to role that television in there today. And I think even the agriculture minister in the oval office confirmed that these people are, in fact, being murdered.
So, my question is, if its not a genocide today, how many do we want to let get murdered so that people around here can be satisfied? Okay, now it's a genocide. Let's let a few more.
I don't understand. We're talking about 50-something people. They were trying to let in, and everybody is losing their mind after we let in 20 million illegal immigrants over the last several years.
The president is trying to prevent genocide from happening any further to these people. They are clearly being discriminated against. Some have been murdered. This was an interesting spectacle in the oval office today, but it had to happen because I don't think anybody was telling the truth about it.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. So, I think the word -- use of the word genocide is wildly irresponsible and probably not helpful. At the same time, I think the real takeaway from this is that it's pretty much no state leader who has any exposure anywhere in the world, who's ever going to want an Oval Office meeting with Donald Trump ever again, because they figured out that this is the show that Trump likes to put on between Zelenskyy and this.
I will say about the press often refers to this land reform thing from 2024 as a land bill, but the actual wording of it basically says any property can be expropriated without compensation either.
South Africa is a poorly run country that has gotten measurably worse, and a whole bunch of ways since the end of apartheid. That's not to say that apartheid was good, or that it wasn't the right thing to get rid of. It was an evil system, and it was right to get rid of it.
But South Africa's government plays it fast and loose with Iran, with China, it is a -- it is a difficult country for the United States to deal with. And so, throwing one across the plate with them, even if I really don't like the use of the word genocide here, has some upside.
BROWN: I actually want to bring Larry back into this discussion because he can really speak to the threat and what you all are laying out here.
Go ahead, Larry.
MADOWO: I've been covering South Africa for 15 years. I've lived in the country. I continue to go back five, six, seven times a year.
And President Ramaphosa, I spoke to him last week and he told me something that he'd explained this to President Trump, that the 59 white Afrikaner refugees that were accepted are part of a fringe group that would prefer the South Africa goes back to apartheid days, that they're anti-change and anti-transformation. So that's one point.
The other is the 1,000 white crosses that President Trump played in that video montage shows a political stunt that's been used by this group, known as AfriForum, for more than a decade. AfriForum is a white Afrikaner lobby group that represents the interests of mostly white farmers and the white population. The Afrikaners are the descendants of the Dutch, the French and the German that settled in South Africa more than 300 years ago. And even they when we spoke to them on Tuesday before this meeting,
could not explicitly say there's a white genocide. We've spoken to them again shortly after this meeting, and the CEO of AfriForum told us that this was a good meeting. They think it went well, and it shows that the problems in South Africa cannot be swept under the table.
Important context here that AfriForum has been labeled by some as a white supremacist organization. So, there are some white supremacists in South Africa who are celebrating the outcome of this meeting, this spectacle, because their talking points were repeated by the president of the United States.
BROWN: I think that's really important context, especially from a reporter who has lived there, who has really studied this issue.
And just to follow up what he said, you know, President Trump said today in the oval office that he would do the exact same thing if they were black. He said, we treat people very well when we see there's a genocide going on.
Now, again, as we heard Larry say that, that the facts don't bear that out, that that's happening in South Africa. But I want to just go back to you on your point, Scott.
The U.S. determined that there actually is a genocide in Sudan, and yet there are no Sudanese refugees on their way over the -- and part of why this is so controversial is because the Trump administration is letting some in, like from South Africa, but not places like Sudan and other countries where you're really seeing a lot of violence.
JENNINGS: I mean, there's difficult situations all over the world, and I don't know what our calculation is with Sudan right now. I would just say in the case of South Africa, we were talking about 59 people. And in the case of a lot of other places, you're talking about massive populations. So that's obviously a different calculation you have to make.
So I don't know where they are. I don't know what the State Department is, is thinking about Sudan right now. But I do think one core difference is sheer volume of humanity were talking about here.
KANNO-YOUNGS: I would say 59 for now. I mean, we've obtained memos that show that 8,000 people expressed interest to the embassy in south Africa when it when Trump announced this refugee carve out. The president has also made comments indicating he wants to continue with this.
Also, when we talk about that disparity, you know, why take refuge? Why have a carve out for white South Africans, but not for Afghans who helped the U.S. military or for those fleeing Sudan or those in Congo as well, when we talk about that disparity, the White House will often respond and point to border crossings and the record number of people that came in recent years.
I do think it's important to also remind people these are two different systems, people that are coming to the border, both administrations -- both parties, Democrats and Republicans, often say that is not the way to seek sanctuary in the U.S. That's the asylum system.
The refugee system is different. Thats for people that are overseas and applying to come to the U.S. That is blocked for everybody but Afrikaners right now.
BROWN: Yeah, I think that's really important context. And on Afghanistan, you mentioned they just ended the temporary protected status for those who came over here. I think it was just yesterday, that was officially ended.
All right. Really important conversation. Thank you so much.
Everyone, stay with us, because there is more to discuss. President Trump continues to meet with key Republican lawmakers at the White House as he pushes for a vote today on his tax bill. Republican Congressman Dusty Johnson is standing by on Capitol Hill to join us live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:36:27]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): We want to save money. We want to save as much money as we can, but we want to do it the right way to deliver for hard working Americans who are getting left behind by government here, Republican and Democrat, who keep spending money we don't have, racking up massive amounts of debt, driving up inflation, so Americans can't afford homes.
The Moody's bond rating gets dropped and people are getting left behind. No more. Now is the time for transformative reform. We're going to work the White House to deliver it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Right now, members of the House Freedom Caucus are meeting at the White House. Speaker Mike Johnson, trying to get them on board with the so-called big, beautiful bill that would advance the president's agenda.
Obviously, President Trump also trying to get them on board. He was on Capitol Hill yesterday and back with them again today. These hardliners say their demands haven't been met. They want more time to negotiate major Medicaid reforms and bigger cuts to clean energy programs.
But President Trump wants a vote on the bill today.
Joining us now is Representative Dusty Johnson of South Dakota.
Hi, Congressman. Great to have you on.
First of all, are you getting any sort of readout from this meeting at the White House on where things are headed right now?
REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): I am getting a little bit of a readout. Although it's not like in the middle of the meeting with the president. People are texting Dusty. But some staff members are giving me a sense of how things are going. And I think we're going to land this plane.
I want to start by saying that for the hardliners, I agree with them. This bill does not cut enough. I understand what they're asking for. We're just getting to a point now where we've got to land this plane and the president is right. We need to vote on this thing.
BROWN: What does land this plane look like? Does that mean a vote tonight? As Speaker Johnson wants?
JOHNSON: Yes. I think a vote tonight is absolutely still possible. We've had text released for a long time. I think the manager's amendment will be relatively easy for. People to digest. We have had hearings for weeks on this bill, so it's not like anybody is being ambushed with anything.
It may be that a vote creeps into early tomorrow morning, but yes, I do think we're going to get this done in the next 18 hours.
BROWN: So you're pretty confident of that.
All right. So, you said you shared their concerns here when it comes to the deficit. The Congressional Budget Office released the preliminary analysis of this bill. And it found that it would increase the deficit by 3.8 trillion in the coming years, over ten years.
But some Republicans are simply saying that's not true. They're casting doubt on that. Here's Representative Andy Barr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARR: The CBO score is wrong. The CBO has been wrong repeatedly. It was wrong when they scored the first Trump tax cuts. They were wrong by over $1 trillion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, we did a quick fact check. The CBO analysis of the first Trump tax cuts did underestimate the growth that followed passage of that law. But its projection of deficit growth were largely accurate.
My question to you is, do you have concerns about how these new tax cuts will impact the deficit?
JOHNSON: Yes. We should be cutting more to be clear, I don't like the long-term deficit impact on this. I don't think it's quite as bad as CBO says, in part because they don't take into account any dynamic scoring or not enough dynamic scoring.
We know from the last tax cut and every tax cut that you're going to induce a certain amount of growth when you do that. And when you do that, you can get another 2.6 trillion. So then, all of a sudden, your $3 trillion deficit comes down to very close to parity.
But I would cut more. But politics is the art of the possible. We cannot secure 218 votes in the House and 51 in the Senate for cutting more than the current bill cuts.
We've got to be able to take two thirds of a loaf. Dusty Johnson doesn't get everything he wants in any package.
BROWN: So, you're a member of the Agriculture Committee, which oversees federal food stamp programs. This CBO office estimates that 3 million people would lose access to food stamps under the spending bill's new work requirements.
What would you say to any constituent who might be concerned about poor Americans losing food stamps, at the same time that wealthy Americans are getting a tax cut?
JOHNSON: So it's interesting when you look at how are 3 million people losing their food stamps, it's because they're getting jobs. They're beginning to make money, and they're working off the program.
I mean, a lot of these lost people off food stamps are off food stamps because they don't need them anymore. We know from data in Arkansas, Maine and other states that after you impose work requirements on food stamp recipients who have not been subject to them before, their incomes triple over just two years.
We know that work, training, education requirement were -- the requirements work. I would just close by saying this. None of these work requirements apply to people with disabilities, to any seniors, to people with young children at home, to women who are pregnant. They are just focused on able-bodied people.
BROWN: All right. Congressman Dusty Johnson, thank you for your time.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
BROWN: Up next, an update on DOJ's case against New Jersey congresswoman that she labels political intimidation.
Plus, what we know about another investigation by the Trump Justice Department, this one into former governor and current New York mayoral candidate Andrew Cuomo.
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[16:46:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LAMONICA MCIVER (D-NJ): I think the charges are absurd. You know, it's ridiculous. I was there to do my job along with my other colleagues. We have done this before. This is our obligation to do. It's in our job description to have oversight over facility, and the entire situation was escalated by ICE.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica McIver is one of three Democrats who are being investigated or charged by federal agencies. And this morning, she virtually appeared for her initial hearing in court after being charged with two counts of assaulting federal agents. The incident, as seen here, happened outside an immigration center in Newark earlier this month.
And meanwhile, across the Hudson River, New York mayoral candidate Andrew Cuomo is under investigation now from the Justice Department following a referral from congressional Republicans who accused Cuomo of lying during an investigation of his administration's COVID-19 response when he was governor of New York.
And earlier this week, FBI Director Kash Patel announced an investigation into New York Attorney General Letitia James, making her the first public official who investigated the president to now face potential criminal prosecution.
CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig joins our panel.
All right, Elie, how do you assess these three cases? Are they valid?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Pam, of course, each of these cases stands on its own facts, but I can say that I put them all in the same general range prosecutorially, which is there's not nothing there. There is something on which to investigate. There is smoke around each of these cases.
However, I find the evidence here to be less than overwhelming. So, if we start with Representative McIver. Yes, it appears she did put her forearm into the torso of some of those agents. Fine.
But on the other hand, it was in the course of a tussle there was pushing back and forth. Nobody got injured.
In the case of Andrew Cuomo, when he was governor, without question, his office submitted paperwork that falsely understated dramatically the number of COVID deaths in New York. The question is, did Governor Cuomo have something to do with that paperwork? He testified that he did not, but he also said he might not remember.
Now if the governor was part of that, he should be charged. But the proof is very much in question at this point. It's hard to prove a negative as a prosecutor, especially where somebody says they don't remember.
And then with respect to Letitia James, this is a mortgage fraud investigation. Her own lawyer sent a letter into DOJ, which is public, where the lawyer admits there are mistakes in Letitia James' paperwork. But he argues those mistakes were inadvertent and immaterial. Not that important.
So, anyone who tells you now, Pam, conclusively, these folks are guilty or not guilty, they're either speculating or they're partisan. We have a lot of ways to go on all three of these cases. BROWN: All right. So, let's play this moment from Pam Bondi's
confirmation hearing for attorney general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will not politicize that office. I will not target people simply because of their political affiliation. Justice will be administered even handedly throughout this country. Senator, we've got to bring this country back together. We've got to move forward, or we're going to lose our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, do you see what she just said there actually playing out?
HONIG: Well, I think there's a couple of trends that are hard to ignore. First of all, the charges in the investigations that have been opened up have been exclusively against Democrats. That's trend number one.
Trend number two, and this is something Pam Bondi needs to stop. She, Kash Patel, others at DOJ are spiking the football on these cases. They're publicly announcing them on Fox News. They're issuing gaudy press releases like we saw to the U.S. attorney in new jersey over these cases and investigations. Thats against the way the Justice Department and prosecutors are supposed to do business. You don't publicly announce ongoing investigations. You don't take to the news waves to announce things that you're doing.
And the third thing I would point out is Pam Bondi has made clear she has zero interest in investigating anything that might harm Republicans or the administration. Think back to the Signal-gate incident with various high ranking Republican officials, Mike Waltz and others.
[16:50:06]
Well, previously in DOJ history, when you've had mishandling of classified documents like that, we've had extensive investigations here. Pam Bondi, just two days after this scandal broke, she came out and said, we haven't investigated, but there's nothing to see here. Case closed.
So, I think all of those trends make pretty clear that there's real questions about Pam Bondi's independence.
BROWN: All right. So, let's bring in the panel here.
Adrienne, to kick it off with you. I want to talk about the Cuomo investigation. You know, he was already the frontrunner in this mayoral race in New York. How does this impact him politically if at all in your view?
ELROD: I actually don't think it impacts him politically. If anything, it probably helps him politically, especially with Democratic primary voters. But here's the bottom line. I mean, I think when you're looking at
across all these cases, you know, the three individuals that Elie was talking about, these people also are individuals that Trump does not -- that have been critical of Trump, that have either not supported his agenda or have been very critical of the way he's handled things. Obviously, Cuomo is at the very top of that list. Trump has made no bones about the fact that he considers to be -- Cuomo to be an enemy, especially when he took such a hard position. Cuomo did, in terms of leadership on dealing with the COVID crisis versus Trump, who was completely lax in terms of dealing with it.
Same with obviously Tish James. She's been somebody who has, you know, prosecuted Trump on a number of occasions. So, this is his way of weaponizing the DOJ to try to get back at some of his political enemies.
And to see Pam Bondi, to watch her and her testimony when she was getting in her confirmation hearings, you know, talk about how we need to get the Justice Department back in fighting form or whatever language she used, it's so rich. She is essentially Trump's proxy. There is no separation from the way DOJ operates versus the way that White House operates. This is Trump's DOJ and Pam Bondi as his proxy. We're seeing this all play out.
BROWN: Scott Jennings for furrowing his brow. I always know he has something to say.
JENNINGS: So, we're worried about people in one party and criminally investigating people in another party now?
ELROD: That is not what I meant.
JENNINGS: That's good to know.
ELROD: These are -- these are enemy -- these are people who have been very outspoken against Trump regardless of political party affiliation.
JENNINGS: You listen, there's evidence in all three cases. McIver, there's a video. If you went to a facility and put your hands on a federal agent, I mean, you might be in jail right now. Number two -- or me, too, a regular person.
Number two on Cuomo, pretty strong evidence.
ELROD: There's also been multiple investigation on Cuomo and he didn't buy the IG --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: He didn't -- he didn't tell the truth.
Number three -- number three, on Tish James. I was under the impression that in the state of New York, if you mess up some paperwork, whatever, around some kind of a financial transaction that that was worthy of one, two, 34 felonies. And so, I'm just saying all these people have done things. I think they're worthy of investigation. I don't know what's going to happen to it, but they're not being targeted because they're Democrats. They're being targeted because there's lots of evidence.
ELROD: Okay. He's cherry -- cherry-picking them because they are Democrats.
BROWN: All right. Thank you all. Elie Honig, thank you so much.
Well, coming up, a handgun, drugs and shiny red heels. More on the new evidence shown to the jury in the high-profile sex trafficking trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs.
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[16:57:49]
BROWN: Another day of court has just wrapped up in the Sean "Diddy" Combs sex trafficking trial. Today, we heard from an expert witness and the media mogul's former executive assistant.
CNN's Kara Scannell is live right outside the federal courthouse in New York City.
Kara, take us through what we heard from the stand today.
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, we did hear from an expert witness who is testifying about the actions of people who have been victims of domestic violence, why they're late to report and why they often have spotty, fragmented memories.
We also did hear from Combs's former executive assistant, and he testified that Combs, on a monthly basis, threatened his job. He also described to the jury some of what his job entailed, and he said that there were two occasions where he picked up drugs for Combs. Combs directed him to meet someone, exchanged cash in exchange for a bag of drugs. He said that he did that on two occasions.
He also testified under immunity, meaning that he can't be prosecuted for any crimes based on the testimony that he gave, and he did testify about part of his job that involved delivering materials to the hotel room, setting up the hotel rooms where the prosecutors allege the freak offs took place, and then also going in and cleaning them up afterwards. He said he never saw anyone who went into the hotel rooms with Combs, but he said that part of his job was to make sure it was tidy. Afterwards, cleaning up bottles of baby oil, Gatorade.
And he said that he did this to protect Combs's public image. That's part of the prosecution's theory that there was this conspiracy that combs was involved in that was trying to protect his image. Now, he also was testifying about -- he will also be back on the stand again tomorrow. But one thing that the jury also heard today was some more of the evidence that was collected during the search last year. Combs home in Miami, the special agent from homeland security investigations was on the stand this morning. He showed the jury some of the evidence that they had collected,
including a Gucci pouch filled with little small Ziploc bags of drugs, he said. Those drugs were MDMA, ecstasy. And he said that they also included found in that pouch $100 bill that tested positive for cocaine and ketamine.
He did also show the jury a handgun that was found in a suitcase soon after you entered Combs's property. That handgun he cut out of the evidence bag. He walked it in front of the jury, walked down to the whole stretch of the jury and back to show them this handgun that was seized as well, as about 50 rounds of ammunition -- Pamela.
BROWN: All right. Kara Scannell, thank you so much.
And my colleague and friend, Jake Tapper, is standing by for THE LEAD.
Hey, Jake. I know you have a lot coming up today.
