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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Just In: New War Of Words Erupts Between Trump & Musk. Aired 4- 5p ET
Aired June 05, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Dave Aronberg, thanks so much.
And goodness, in a day that started with the primary confrontation being a phone call between the Chinese president and Donald Trump became one of a quite public breakup between Trump and his ally, Elon Musk.
JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: It certainly did. As a day in 2025 can be. We go from one thing, swing wildly to the next. So we're going to continue to monitor all of this. Thanks so much for being here with us.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: So, we've got some breaking news today, right now on CNN. It's Trump versus Musk. And it is getting messier literally by the minute.
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Thursday.
We all knew that this moment was probably coming. One of my longtime sources wrote on Elon Musk's platform X, this is the most predictable day he's ever seen in politics. This, a Republican source who has been in the business for many years.
You may remember it was just last Friday that Elon Musk was proudly standing right next to Donald Trump in the Oval Office, thanking him for the chance to lead DOGE.
So, what's happening now? This was just a couple of hours ago. Elon Musk writes this, quote: Without me, Trump would have lost the election. Dems would control the House and the Republicans would be 51-49 in the Senate. Such ingratitude.
So, what could Donald Trump have possibly said that would have compelled Musk to accuse him of being ungrateful for the hundreds of millions that he spent to help him retake the White House?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Elon's upset because we took the EV mandate. And, you know, which was a lot of money for electric vehicles. And, you know, they're having a hard time the electric vehicles, and they want us to pay billions of dollars in subsidy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was the first time that Trump has responded to Musk and his ongoing social media campaign to kill the Republicans so-called big, beautiful bill that is basically the entirety of President Trump's legislative agenda. It took Trump more than a day to finally say something like that in public on the record.
Musk didn't wait, though. He was clearly watching the Oval Office event earlier today, and he was responding on X in real time. After Trump said that Musk wrote this, quote, whatever, keep the EV solar incentive cuts in the bill, even though no oil and gas subsidies are touched. Very unfair. But ditch the mountain of disgusting pork in the bill.
And so, it went. Trump would talk and Elon would respond as the two engaged in a spat. That really seems as petty as it's -- as it is public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm very disappointed because Elon knew the inner workings of this bill better than almost anybody sitting here, better than you people. He knew everything about it. He had no problem with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Not so, Musk says. He tweeted this, quote, false. This bill was never shown to me even once, and was passed in the dead of night.
When Musk left the government last week, he said it was to focus on his companies, including Tesla, a group of Tesla shareholders even accused him of being absent amid a crisis, as the company's showrooms were targeted by vandalism and its stock price slipped, which, by the way, let's check in on Tesla stock here.
The market just closed. Shares of Tesla closed down over 14 percent. Trump's Oval Office remarks and Elons tweet spree that started around noon today. That was basically the high point. And billions have been wiped from Tesla's value in the meantime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we'll anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: They might not even be friends anymore.
All right. We literally tried to produce some actual popcorn for this show, because it seems like that kind of a day. But let me tell you, it got much worse than what we just walked through right there because the president, presumably after seeing Musk's tweets, responded this: Elon was wearing thin. I asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted, that he knew for months that I was going to do, and he just went crazy. The easiest way to save money in our budget, billions and billions of dollars, is to terminate Elon's governmental subsidies and contracts. I was always surprised that Biden didn't do it.
If you think that would have ended there, you would be wrong. And I'm pretty sure none of you thought that it would end there, because here's what Musk said. Go ahead, make my day.
And for the record, Musk continued to tweet about Trump after this is probably still tweeting. Jeffrey Epstein has been mentioned, but we have to cut it off somewhere.
[16:05:03]
We're going to talk to our panel in just a moment, but we're going to start with Kristen Holmes at the White House.
Kristen, I do think certainly when the Musk-Trump bromance began, there was a lot of speculation about the inevitability of a day like this. It actually lasted quite a while. The two seemed to manage to, you know, keep their relationship on track through Musk's tenure. I guess at this point, I have to ask you, I mean, is the Tesla that Trump bought still on the White House grounds? It sounds like were set to perhaps hear from the president later on today.
What have you seen so far today at the White House? And what are you expecting to come next?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, Kasie, there's breaking up, and then there is publicly taking a flamethrower to another person to completely try and destroy their reputation and livelihood, which is what we've seen these two men engage in for the last several hours. You have Donald Trump there saying he's going to take away government contract subsidies to the tune of billions of dollars from Elon Musk, which would be his livelihood.
And as you mentioned, Elon Musk is making this a nuclear threat by essentially claiming that Donald Trump is in the, quote, Epstein files. Now, just one thing to make clear here. We don't even believe or we don't even know that any Epstein files exist. We have no indication that Musk would have access to that.
But, of course, this is a long-lived conspiracy theory that there is some files out there of clients of Jeffrey Epstein's. Now, we reached out to the White House to get a response to this. Donald Trump is going to sit for a roundtable with the Fraternal Order of Police any moment now. And this is not one that his advisers are going to respond for him.
They are going to give him the opportunity. The cameras will be there. And we were told, Donald Trump wants to talk about this. Just remember, as you said, Donald Trump didn't respond to Elon Musk's
lambasting of his legacy bill for two days. It wasn't until he was asked about it today that he really laid into it, and even then, just saying that he was disappointed.
Now, it gets incredibly personal, saying that it's wearing thin. You see Elon Musk saying, that's not true. That's a lie. They're going back and forth, back and forth.
Yes, there is somewhat of a juvenile angle to this, but these are also two of the most powerful men in the world who are having this public breakup right now, which you said, of course, at some times, people speculated this could happen.
Two men with huge egos, big personalities, but the White House advisers thought they got off scot-free. They thought that on Friday he was gone. They had a pleasant meeting, they praised each other and he was out the door.
And a lot of people were happy to see him go. Donald Trump is right about that. He was wearing thin on some of the advisers who said it was time for him to move on. But right now, what you are seeing is a complete escalation in some cases and also a devolving of this relationship that we watched for the first four months. It's really a signature part of the first four months or five months of Donald Trump's time in office.
So right now, we are waiting to see how Donald Trump responds to this incredibly personal attack. Obviously trying to make it more personal, trying to spark conspiracy theories around the current president, Elon Musk doing so, taking it to a whole new level here.
HUNT: A whole new level indeed.
Kristen Holmes, I know you'll be standing by for us throughout the hour as we wait for Donald Trump to weigh in on camera on this.
Our panel joins us now. Elliot Williams, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor; Kristen Soltis Anderson, CNN political commentator, Republican pollster; Adrienne Elrod, former senior adviser to the Biden-Harris campaign; Matt Mowers, Republican strategist; and Faiz Siddiqui, technology reporter at "The Washington Post" and an Elon Musk biographer, is also with us.
But before we start our conversation, I do want to just roll some of that tape to remind all of us what this relationship, this relationship between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, a relationship that, let's be honest, has impacted the lives of certainly thousands, perhaps millions of Americans through these DOGE cuts and other measures. What it looked like before they had this. I mean, this is beyond a breakup. This feels like a really nasty divorce where all the assets are on the table and everybody is fighting -- fighting over who gets to keep what. This is what it looked like before today. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Is the only reason we can now send American astronauts into space. Come here. Take over, yes, take over.
ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: I'm not just MAGA. I'm dark gothic MAGA. And we're going to take DOGE to Mars.
TRUMP: We love Elon, don't we? It's that guy. He's a character.
MUSK: The people voted for major government reform. And that's what the people are going to get.
TRUMP: He's an incredible patriot, and I don't even know if he's a Republican.
Elon is really not leaving. He's going to be back and forth. I think I have a feeling.
MUSK: So, that's -- that's it really. Thank you, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Thank you. Great job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:10:00]
HUNT: So that's not it, because just 60 seconds ago or so, a little bit more, we got this on Truth Social from the president of the United States.
He says, quote, I don't mind Elon turning against me, but he should have done so months ago. This is one of the greatest bills ever presented to Congress. It's a record cut in expenses, et cetera, et cetera,, et cetera. I didn't create this mess. This puts our country on the path of greatness. Make America great again.
Kristen Soltis Anderson, let me start with you because you asked your team, your polling team to go back and look at -- of these two men. This is like a MAGA showdown for the ages, right?
What do Republicans think of each of these men? Who is going to come out on top here?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So before today, Elon Musk was pretty popular with Republicans. In my data, he was up among Republicans, 74 percent found that he was. They viewed him favorably even more. When you look at the most MAGA of Republicans. But you know who's more popular with these Republicans that Elon Musk, it's Donald Trump.
And so, in the battle of billionaire with an interest in policy, who's really good at trolling on social media versus billionaire with an interest in policy, who's really good at trolling on social media, I suspect Republicans will come down on Trump's side, with one exception, the fact that Musk is sort of attacking him from the right, from the fiscal conservative side, I'll be interested to see how much of that old school Tea Party DNA is still flowing through today's Republican Party.
HUNT: I'm interested, too.
Faiz, let me bring you in here, because I do really want to understand. I mean, the way that Elon Musk is responding here. And he's also starting to say things like, you know, Donald Trump is going to be out of office in three plus years, whereas Elon Musk is going to be on the scene. He says, for, you know, expects to live 40 more years. Why is he going at this the way that he is with the president of the United States? What is it about his personality?
I mean, this -- it just seems fundamentally ill-advised if you're someone who has billions of dollars at stake with the federal government, and yet here we are.
FAIZ SIDDIQUI, AUTHOR, "HUBRIS MAXIMUS: THE SHATTERING OF ELON MUSK": Yeah. Thank you for having me first. So, you mentioned this idea of, like Elon has said, there's a large graveyard filled with my enemies. Go ahead and make my day. He said that kind of thing before, so he cannot resist the personal line of attack.
Even people who have been closely, deeply allied with Musk have found themselves on the wrong side of these types of barbs. And we have now seen how far that type of attitude can stretch. It can go up to the relationship with the president of the United States. One person mentioned to me that Musk wanted the power of the presidency, and he is finding that he's up against someone who is more powerful than him, and that's something that he clearly cannot take.
HUNT: So, this just in also, very interesting. But I think this shows, I think, going to be kind of a rolling, breaking news. We're just going to be reading social media. We're going to be listening to the president. We come to the White House, we're all going to be talking about it in the meantime.
But this is what Elon just tweeted. He says this, quote: in light of the president's statement about cancellation in my government contracts at SpaceX, we'll begin decommissioning its Dragon spacecraft immediately.
And this is the spacecraft that serves the International Space Station. So I guess this does show you also and let me stick with you just on this, and then we're going to open it up a little bit, that Elon Musk does actually have some leverage over the U.S. government.
SIDDIQUI: Absolutely. He's immensely powerful. I mean, he is in transportation space faring. Neuralink has all of these artificial intelligence bets. He has his own A.I. platform in Grok.
Musk's contracts and the government reliance on Musk's empire is extensive. So, it goes back to the tweet. I mean, Musk said Trump is going to be in office for three and a half years, but I'm around for 40, so it is kind of a battle of, you know, who's more powerful here.
HUNT: So, Matt Mowers, welcome to THE ARENA.
MATT MOWERS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.
HUNT: To join us in the morning. This is your first outing with us here. Who -- I mean, who wins in this fight.
And I should also put a finer point on it. I mean, this is about the president's agenda. What impact does everything we've seen so far today and today is very far from over, as we've learned. What impact do you think this is going to have on that legislative agenda?
MOWERS: The honest answer is I don't think it has much yet. And if you go back to December, right, when Elon Musk kind of tanked the end of the year CR, and everything else, and then Congress was back scrambling trying to piece it back together. He doesn't have the power of just his megaphone anymore. He does still have the power of his wallet.
And, you know, there's been an argument in D.C. for a long time about what matters more, money or power? Well, I think we're going to find out in the next year, because Donald Trump still has the political power in the party. He still wants to move this forward. And members of Congress are still more responsive to what Donald Trump says than what Elon Musk necessarily spends his money on, unless you've got a number of members of the House who are looking to run for Senate or are running for Senate.
[16:15:07]
Does he start trying to make deals with them about supporting them against the Trump endorsed candidate they may run against these races and try to pick off votes that way. That would be the only way he can really start, I think, impacting the big, beautiful bill and the outcome of it. Right now, it's still Donald Trump's town. It's Donald Trump's party. It's Donald Trump's agenda that's looking like it's going to get through.
HUNT: Well, and I got to say, Elliot Williams, if I've learned anything in my years of covering the most recent set of presidential campaigns, the last three or four of them, it's that, in fact, power -- political power, Trump's money every single time. Just ask the 2016 Trump campaign and, you know, Jeb Bush.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Without question. And, you know, with it being the final week of school for most kids across the country, for many kids across the country, there's a high school dynamic playing out here, which is that there can only be one prom queen.
If you have two, someone is going to end up crying. And what you have here are two figures that are outsized figures. We've been talking about the Twitter followings and the Truth Social and so on. At a certain point, this was -- this was inevitable. I just don't pick up on Matt's point. I don't see how this does not end with Donald Trump winning, just given the size of his platform, given the support he has from, you know, congressional Republicans and so on. It's just hard to see the universe of individuals who are pro-Elon but anti-Trump. I just -- who knows, but --
HUNT: Yeah. Well, and, Adrienne Elrod, I'm honestly like struggling to come up with something to ask you. That would be a tough question for you.
ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'm struggling to come up with something that could sound creative and smart here, because --
HUNT: Well, Democrats are watching this, right? And thinking, what?
ELROD: Oh, of course, absolutely. And like there have certainly been times where Elon Musk has supported Democrats, and he just leaned into Trump really heavily in this last election cycle, really starting last summer, going into the fall.
But here's the bottom line, Kasie. I mean, not to get too cliche here, but the real losers here in this while these two men are fighting it out and duking it out and looking, acting like eight-year-old children, the real losers in this are the American people.
You just mentioned the DOGE cuts, the fact that tens of thousands of veterans lost their benefits when Musk went into these agencies and cut them away. USAID is all but eliminated. Youve got HHS that saw major cuts to research grants, you know, other very important grants that help rural hospitals, for example, we could the list goes on and on.
HUNT: Elon said we accidentally canceled Ebola prevention. And then we put that back.
ELROD: And indeed, indeed. So, the real losers are here. And like, I think if you are the average independent voter and you probably have some thoughts on this too, but if you're the average independent voter, you're looking at this, you're thinking, are these people really fighting for me? Are they fighting to out jockey themselves? And who can be the biggest bro in this in this fight?
HUNT: Let's push pause on this conversation. Kristen, I do want I actually would love your insights on that very thing. But were going to try to sneak in a break because again, we are waiting for the president who we expect to hear from live. And throughout the hour, we're going to keep covering this very public falling out between two of the world's most powerful men.
We're going to be joined here by Senator Chris Van Hollen. He'll talk to us about the president's tax bill, which is, of course, the thing that has caused this breakup, divorce. Call it what you will. We'll have much more coming after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:34]
HUNT: All right, welcome back to THE ARENA.
We continue to follow the fallout between President Trump and the world's richest man, Elon Musk, who friend of the show, Alex Thompson, reminds us once tweeted, I think this was back. Yes, February 7th. I love real Donald Trump as much as a straight man can love another man. Apparently, the love has been -- the love has been lost. Kristen Soltis Anderson, let's pick up with what Adrienne was asking
you about in terms of how this is going to be looked at by the subset of voters that still decide control of the White House and the Congress. Of course, with the midterm elections, yes, over a year away, but not that far away in political terms.
ANDERSON: Yeah. So, Donald Trump is a more popular figure even among independents than Elon Musk is. But where I think this gets interesting is a big piece of Donald Trump's appeal to swing voters and independents who, like him, is that they view him as an outsider.
And it's fascinating. Donald Trump has been the center of America's political universe for the last decade, and yet he still retains this element of he's an outsider. He's fighting against the establishment. But with this one big, beautiful bill, I mean, it is Trump's party. It is his agenda. He is the establishment now.
And you see these bits and pieces, little, you know, a member of Congress here and there sort of chirping that they don't like the bill, but that all gets squashed pretty quickly. Elon Musk has a much bigger megaphone and he is now trying to make the case.
Donald Trump is the establishment. Someone like me is the outsider fighting. Look, we got to get this pork out of the bill, et cetera.
That's why I said before, it has these weird undertones of like a decades-old Tea Party versus establishment fight being reheated in the microwave.
WILLIAMS: And what's -- what it's exposing is the fragility of the coalition a little bit. Under the tent, you've got the MAGA Republicans and tax cutting libertarians and deficit hawks who are all coming together with a very fragile alliance over a bill. Now, to Kristen's point, it can be preserved, but you are seeing now that losing two or three people in either the House or Senate really could tank this central priority for the president.
HUNT: Indeed.
Faiz, can I get you to weigh in here on this? For someone like an Elon Musk, he really has a global footprint, right? I mean, we've talked a lot about his business interests in China.
[16:25:01]
He obviously has Starlink that's been involved in the war in Ukraine. He sort of picks up on these interests he has with I think it's called the Boring Company. But please correct me if I'm wrong. There was like a rescue at one point that he got interested into.
How does that contribute to his willingness to do this with the president of the United States?
SIDDIQUI: Yeah. I mean, and can I jump off on the last point?
HUNT: Sure. SIDDIQUI: In what world does Elon Musk get to claim that he is not -- that he is anti-establishment? He's the richest person on earth, leading the most valuable car company in the world. He claims that he was central, essential to getting the president elected. He has his hands in auto manufacturing, space, artificial intelligence, tunneling, as you mentioned, and he operates in numerous different continents, not to mention countries. And he has this satellite internet service that is controlling internet access in different parts of the world.
So, the idea that Musk can suddenly positioned himself as an anti- establishment figure is interesting, but not surprising. He loves to operate in this space where he's the little guy. To answer your question directly, he -- this is something he embraces the fight. He does not back away from the opportunity to show that he is standing by his principles, regardless of how big of a figure he is going up against. And the principle in this case is cutting federal spending.
HUNT: So absolutely take your point about principles.
Matt Mowers, I want to ask you about something that "The New York Times" reported recently, which is, of course, that Elon Musk's use of drugs, prescription drugs had become part of this sort of what was widely known in the White House. I want to be a little bit careful just to make sure that some of the specifics are not specifics that were also reported here at CNN, but there's certainly this undercurrent questioning the way that Musk's personality may or may not be being affected by such things.
Your take?
MOWERS: I mean, to the specifics of that, no idea. Right? I'm not waking up in the morning checking, you know, what's in it?
HUNT: Are your text chains? Are people talking about that in your text chains?
MOWERS: No. I mean, look, there were --
HUNT: Really --
MOWERS: I think that -- I think the bigger the bigger thing that there was, was frustration, differences of opinion for the first six months, specifically around staffing, around the impact of DOGE at the agencies, who is calling the shots, the cabinet secretary or Elon Musk. And that festered into, obviously, a larger, bubbling sense of disagreement that, you know, been kind of glazed over because generally speaking, they were all still aligned on some of the big policy initiatives. They were respectful of the relationship the president had with Elon Musk.
But now, you're seeing those frustrations bubbling to the surface. And that's why we're all here talking about what we are today.
HUNT: Kristen Holmes, you're at the White House for us, and I want to bring you into this because you covered Donald Trump every day on the campaign trail. And, of course, Elon Musk joined him. We showed some of that, you know, throughout the campaign, especially as we got to the end of the campaign.
And one thing that we have seen since Donald Trump got elected is business leaders being very careful in -- I mean, I think critics would say to kowtow to Donald Trump. You know, I think Donald Trump would obviously put it differently. And he would describe in a different way what these business leaders have been doing.
But suffice to say that they have been very careful about how they have approached the Trump administration. I mean, Jeff Bezos got a phone call when there was reporting that amazon was going to start a section, a segment of amazon was going to start putting up prices for the tariff, the amount of money that tariffs were causing prices to go up.
It just seems like very, very remarkable that Elon Musk is doing the exact opposite of many of these other leaders who have been so careful not to put a single toe out of line.
HOLMES: Yeah. I mean, I think we are kind of saying that -- okay, let's look back at this, because it's not as though Elon Musk has been kind of pushing back this whole time. It's like this is one specific instance that now is completely unraveling, and both sides are just scrapping at whatever they can to attack each other.
So, Elon had really fallen in line with the rest of them as well. And perhaps it's because Elon fell in line that we saw Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg or any of these people who had really shunned Donald Trump in the first administration start showing up in the Oval Office, start trying to buy houses near Washington, D.C., so that they had access to the White House, trying to change some of their business practices to better suit what Donald Trump himself liked.
Now, of course, what we're seeing is a public blowing up of this entire practice by Elon Musk, who he himself had kowtowed to Donald Trump, but also had really tried to ingratiate himself. Maybe that's a better term with the current president of the United States. He just tweeted a moment ago, it's not stopping saying that Trump's tariffs are going to cause a recession in the second part of the year.
He is hitting Trump where it hurts right now.
[16:30:01]
We know that Donald Trump cares about almost nothing as much as he cares about one. The big, beautiful bill, his bill that he believes is his legacy bill. And two, the deals that he's making on tariffs and on trade, which he believes will also be part of his legacy, which he has been pushing and really trying to get across the finish line.
Elon Musk obviously knows that and is trying to take him on, on every level that he possibly can. Now, Donald Trump just spoke for a few minutes at the Fraternal Order of Police. He's there for a roundtable. He didn't take questions. He didn't mention any of this, but he's still in the room. So, the question right now is whether or not he does, as we've seen
him do when he really wants to talk about something, look to the cameras and say, does anyone have any questions here? Because he knows exactly what's going to be asked. If he does that.
HUNT: Well, and, Kristen, one other element of this, and I'm so glad you brought up that tweet because this now, I mean, we're looking at a broad base of attacks, right? Not just focused on this bill, but also on the president's complete economic agenda, including those tariffs. I think Musk critics immediately point out he does a lot of business with China.
But I think we can also put up an event that Donald Trump had, you know, this relationship has been unique for Donald Trump, who, as you know, is used to kind of take, take taking the admiration from people, but doesn't often reciprocate directly. More likely to be critical than to admire.
He held this event on the White House grounds. He purchased a Tesla vehicle. This was an incredible public show from Donald Trump, reality-star-turned-president, in support of Elon Musk. And this unfolded as Tesla dealerships had become the targets of violence, which, of course, we universally condemn.
But what does this when you look at these pictures today, considering what Elon he is shredding the president on his platform right now in the wake of this, what kind of impact do you think that has? I mean, this would be something that would make Donald Trump very, very angry. No?
HOLMES: Yeah. And I do want to note right now, because actually, our photojournalist Jay McMichael (ph) just went over there to look in the parking lot. And that Tesla is still there. It's not been lit on fire.
HUNT: Is it the red one?
HOLMES: Giant mob turning it over. It's the -- it's the red one. It's there in the lot. We know that they've taken this out for spins. Members of the EOB part of the White House staff obviously have taken this out before for spins. It is still there.
And but, obviously, how much longer, we have no idea.
Now, in terms of this going to make him angry. You know, I spoke to a number of these advisors yesterday who really were still unsure how Donald Trump was going to react. They said that he was initially angry with that first post of Trump lambasting the bill. I mean, Musk lambasting the bill, but that he had a lot of questions. Was this about business, is probably because he has to do this because he's going back to Tesla.
His first reaction and instinct wasn't necessarily to go nuclear on Elon Musk. It's also why it took him so long to respond. They were telling me yesterday, they weren't sure what he was going to do if he was going to hit back, particularly when these attacks were focused on the bill. Now, obviously it was him going to the camera and saying that he was
disappointed in Musk, that their relationship was over. That really brought this all to a head and now spiraled into what we've been watching.
But Trump himself was waiting this out to see how this was going to play out again. Two most powerful, two of the most powerful men in the world.
HUNT: Indeed.
All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you. Again, we're going to stand by and see if Donald Trump does decide to take questions.
Faiz Siddiqui, I want to thank you as well. I really appreciate you being here. Hope you'll come back soon.
SIDDIQUI: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Coming up, Senator Chris Van Hollen will be live here in THE ARENA. We will talk about what is next for the president's tax bill as his relationship with Elon Musk implodes in real time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): The Dems, we've been dumping all over Musk and vandalizing Teslas, whatever. And now suddenly, now we might -- might be more back into him. And it's just like -- it's a thing. That's like, you know, he's right about the big, beautiful bill.
I mean, it's like adding a 2.5 trillion debt. I mean, it's astonishing. I can't imagine anyone genuinely think this is like a smart thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Senator John Fetterman pointing out the reality, that strange reality that Democrats are now agreeing with Elon Musk, who I think we should point out, they, you know, were very happy to villainize in recent elections as, of course, now the former DOGE head is going to war to try to kill the so-called big, beautiful bill.
Today, the majority leader, John Thune, said that Senate Republicans are finalizing the version of the bill that they will send back to the House.
Joining us now to discuss, Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen.
Senator, very grateful to have you here in THE ARENA.
I -- can you let us in on the senator to senator, text chains that are you don't need to name names, but like, what is the actual reaction going on behind the scenes? Because what we are seeing play out right now between the president of the United States and the richest man in the world, is unlike anything I think we've seen in politics.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Kasie, you're absolutely right. It's as if Elon Musk suddenly got a big dose of truth serum and he's letting it all pour out. And it is, I think, going to complicate the way forward for the Republicans in the Senate and the House. And it should, because this is a big bill, as the president says.
It's only beautiful if you're a billionaire. For the rest of America, it is a great betrayal. And Elon Musk is pointing out that it will add trillions to our deficit and debt. In fact, we just had a new number come out today from the Congressional Budget Office that when you take into account the additional interest payments, it comes to $3 trillion in debt over just the next 10 years, even after they cut programs for Medicaid and put 15 million people essentially out of health care coverage and other things.
[16:40:21]
So, I'm glad Elon Musk is speaking up about this.
HUNT: Can we talk about the impact that this feud could have on other areas of the government as well? I mean, one of the things that Elon Musk has already said today the president wrote that he would cancel government contracts. Elon Musk wrote that he is going to immediately cease the Dragon spacecraft, which services the International Space Station in the absence of a U.S. government-run spacecraft.
I mean, what potential impacts are there in terms of fallout?
HOLLEN: Well, this is the problem with how Donald Trump has gone about this whole administration, right? He is using government power to bully people that he disagrees with and reward people that he likes.
And now, he's in this feud with Elon Musk, which is not good for the American people. It's not good for a rules-based economy and approach.
So, this is a very dangerous moment, but it's been characteristic of the Trump administration from the very beginning. The difference right now is that the president is fighting, as you've said, with the world's richest man. And what I worry about in all of this is the American people, working people.
And Elon Musk is right that this bill will do great harm to the country and to working people. So, I hope that this is a moment where even some of the Republicans in Congress who are -- you're right, trying to duck out of this fight, the last thing they want to do is be caught in the crossfire here, but they ultimately are going to have to make a decision on this bill. And it is an abomination, as Elon Musk says.
HUNT: One other line of attack from Elon Musk against President Trump just a few moments ago was on the question of tariffs, and he said that there's going to be a recession in the second half of this year. Do you agree with that assessment? VAN HOLLEN: I do. And more importantly, the nonpartisan Congressional
Budget Office agrees. As you know, this is the organization that is like the umpire here on Capitol Hill. They're not a Democratic organization, a Republican organization. They call the balls and strikes.
And in the analysis they did just in the last couple of days, it was very clear that these tariffs are going to be passed on to American consumers and are going to slow down the economy.
So, this is not Elon Musk making this up. This is confirmed by all the nonpartisan analysts. And I'm glad you raised this, Kasie, because at a time that this Republican big, awful betrayal bill will cut taxes on very wealthy people and cut programs like Medicaid.
It's also, if you take it in tandem with the tariffs bill, it's a huge tax increase on middle class Americans on every American. That's what the across-the-board tariffs are all about. So, in combo, this is a big tax cut for wealthy Americans. And a big tax increase for everybody else.
HUNT: Sir, briefly before I let you go on a different topic, the Trump administration yesterday acknowledged that they did bring back a Guatemalan man who they acknowledged they deported improperly. What does that tell you? I know because you have been so involved with the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia a different man.
VAN HOLLEN: Well, the bottom line, Kasie, is they have to abide by the rule of law and the Constitution and due process, and they can't -- I'm glad they're recognizing that in the one case, but they don't get to cherry pick the due process clause.
You have a 9-0 decision by the Supreme Court of the United States. You don't see those often. That says the Trump administration has to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia. You have other court decisions with respect to other cases.
So, the Trump administration needs to comply with the Constitution. This is not about Abrego Garcia. It's not about any individual. It's about due process rights. Because if you strip them away for any of these individuals, you jeopardize them for everybody in the United States. And I think the American people understand what's at stake.
HUNT: All right. Senator Chris Van Hollen, very grateful to have you on the show today, sir. Thanks very much for being here.
VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you.
HUNT: All right. We'll be right back with much more on what has been a remarkable news day here in Washington, D.C.
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[16:49:19]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I love Tesla.
REPORTER: Which one did you buy? Which one did you buy?
REPORTER: Mr. President, which car are you going to buy?
TRUMP: The one I like is that one.
REPORTER: And how does this work?
TRUMP: I want that same color.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was, of course, President Donald Trump and Elon Musk during better times before the events of today, when Elliot Williams this is still. I mean, were sitting here in the breaks refreshing the various Twitter pages and news stories that are rolling out there in real time. Because, again, the implications of this, and, you know, we should -- we should take this seriously as well, because already, Elon Musk's relationship with Donald Trump and involvement in the federal government has impacted so many Americans.
[16:50:04]
And it seems like this rupture is also likely.
WILLIAMS: Impacted affected so many Americans, affected the functions of the American government try calling the IRS right now. I'm not weighing in on the merits of it, but things function differently now than they did several months ago.
A major piece of legislation that will upend the American economy in Lord knows which way is good or bad, that are now somewhat imperiled, I think, by the president fighting with this major backer with a major megaphone. We don't know how any of this is going to end. Sort of like I said earlier, Donald Trump's got the bigger platform in many regards, but it is still the most powerful man on the planet who's now tweeting about suspending spacecraft contracts. So, I don't know where to end this with what I'm saying. It's just.
HUNT: It's worth noting that Suni -- Suni Williams and her compatriot whose name is escaping me, the two astronauts who were basically. I mean, NASA said. Butch, yes, not stranded, as NASA officially says, but they needed space to rescue them. Like we rely on space.
WILLIAMS: We absolutely rely on SpaceX. And frankly, we should. It's a good thing that the private sector fills in gaps where the federal government cannot. And SpaceX has provided many valuable services to the government. Is that now in jeopardy? If you read Elon and I'm here reloaded, why I have my laptop open here. It's almost like, remember when we were a couple weeks ago waiting for the pope announcement and sort of, like famous Elon tweet? It's like they're madness.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, and even Kanye West has gotten in on it. Bros, please know we love you both so much, is what he's writing. And, of course, that -- I mean, you may remember that the House Judiciary Committee once wrote on X, Kanye and Elon and Donald Trump tying them all together.
Matt Mowers, talk to me about the brass tacks of what this means in the House of Representatives. Because of course, this big, beautiful bill, I think despite all this likely to get passed by the Senate, sent back to the House. Right?
Probably the most likely outcome. But the challenge in the House has been this group of people who are on the right on debt and deficits and some of the things that Elon Musk has been really focused on. And I think it is worth underscoring that Elon Musk does have a following among the MAGA base that also supports Donald Trump.
How do you think this fight impacts the way those members of Congress are going to look at their votes on this bill?
MOWERS: Look, some of them, the Chip Roys of the world, who are causing headaches for the administration, the White House, because they were trying to hold out because they were concerned about some of the spending in the bill, right, are going to find maybe a moral victory having Elon Musk say what he's saying.
But here's the brass tacks. You asked about it, Donald Trump, to your point, Kristen is still the most popular figure in the Republican Party. And if you have to ask any single Republican member of Congress publicly or privately who they want on their side in a primary, they want Donald Trump.
They are not going to cross the president and the White House on this. They've made it clear that this is a red line politically, for who they will support and not support, and not to mention they're still actively raising hundreds of millions of dollars right now in the various entities that the president controls, whether its super PACs, whether it's his actual campaign accounts or the Republican national committee, so that they actually have the financial backing, they don't need to worry about other donors.
WILLIAMS: However, when an individual has 220 million Twitter followers, many of them holding on every word he says and is constantly clicking send, send, send and blasting the president, I don't think that's a headache the White House wants.
MOWERS: Sure. No, I don't think anyone wants this headache. It's part of the reason you saw the president actually dealing with this the way he did. It was a little pre -- you know, showed some real strong temperament in the way he approached it until we had this blowup today.
HUNT: Adrienne, I was going to ask you if Democrats are going to start buying Teslas again. But unfortunately, we're out of time. So, you're saved from that.
MOWERS: She already ordered one.
ELROD: I was going to say, we are seeing the stock going down. I don't think we have any interest right now in trying to like get the stock to go back up. So we're good.
HUNT: All right. Coming up, because we need a little bit of a break here, something totally different, the big old blunder. We'll explain.
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[16:58:40]
HUNT: A foodie firestorm. And honestly, I'm just going to call it a normie firestorm has erupted in New York, and they are, no pun intended, scrambling the race for mayor. I'm sorry. What?
Andrew Cuomo, the former governor and current frontrunner in the Democratic primary, taking heat today for something that he told "The New York Times". During an interview, he was asked his go-to breakfast order. Here is what he said: A bacon, cheese and egg.
I'm sorry. What?
It doesn't stop there. He puts it on an English muffin and he tries to take the bacon off. I mean, that's really just an egg and cheese on an English muffin.
Cuomo says that he stays away from bagels to keep his, quote, girlish figure. Now, he's not the first one to have controversial orders. Cynthia Nixon when "The Sex and the City" star was running for governor in 2018, she ordered a cinnamon raisin bagel with lox, red onions, capers, tomatoes and cream cheese.
Now, of course, all those toppings are pretty standard. It was the choice of the cinnamon raisin bagel that made people lose their minds. "Food and Wine Magazine" called it basically criminal.
And who can forget when just ten days into office, Mayor Bill De Blasio was seen eating pizza with a fork and a knife. That was, of course, forked gate. At the time, one columnist said De Blasio would never politically recover from it.
Jake Tapper, what is your morning breakfast order? And, would you -- would you ever call it a bacon, cheese and egg?
