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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Now: Protests For Fourth Day In Los Angeles; Trump On If Border Czar Should Arrest Newsom: "I Would". Aired 4-5p ET
Aired June 09, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A lot of posts on social media back and forth.
[16:00:03]
The president making accusations, Musk making accusations back involving evoking the Epstein files. At one point, though, we should note that over the weekend, Musk deleted a lot of those remarks, especially the more salacious ones.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, things got downright mean. But as you can tell just by the demeanor there, the president not taking any whacks at Musk when he certainly could. But he did have an argument Musk did with the treasury secretary, the president there just saying he did not see it get physical. Interesting.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's Donald Trump versus Gavin Newsom. Just how far will the president go in this fight?
Let's head into THE ARENA.
Day four of protests in Los Angeles. Demonstrators once again taking to the streets as officials urge everyone to remain peaceful.
Plus, President Trump says he would arrest California's governor. Ahead, Gavin Newsom's response, why he's now accusing the president of taking steps towards authoritarianism.
(MUSIC)
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Monday.
Right now, a fourth day of rallies and protests on the streets of Los Angeles. The situation calm at this hour after a weekend that saw repeated clashes between protesters and police. Multiple cars were burned. Dozens were arrested.
The LAPD says that some officers were targeted with a Molotov cocktail, and others were rammed by a motorbike. As we watch protesters face off against police, another tense standoff unfolding between President Trump and California governor Gavin Newsom over the weekend, Newsom dared Trump border czar Tom Homan to arrest him after Homan suggested that California's Democratic leaders could face federal charges if they interfere with immigration raids.
And now, President Trump making it clear just how he thinks Homan should respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Gavin Newsom is -- he's daring Tom Homan to come and arrest him. Should he do it?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would do it if I were Tom. I think it's great. Gavin likes the publicity but I think it would be a great thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I think it would be a great thing. Governor Newsom very quickly responded to those comments from the president.
He wrote this, quote: This is a day I hoped I would never see in America. I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican. This is a line we cannot cross as a nation. This is an unmistakable step toward authoritarianism.
This afternoon, California announced that they're suing the federal government after President Trump authorized the deployment of those thousands of National Guard troops to the streets of L.A. without the governor's consent. The Trump administration claiming the troops are necessary and contradicting state officials who say that they have the resources they need.
Let's start with team coverage. Our panel is going to weigh in in just a few moments.
We're going to start with CNN's Kristen Holmes outside the White House, CNN's Jason Carroll in L.A., and CNN's Natasha Bertrand, who's standing by at the Pentagon with some new reporting.
Jason, I do want to get to you first, because this was the official appointed hour for the beginning of some of these protests for today. What are you seeing and hearing on the ground right now?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the protests have gotten under way. We're right here. If I can set the scene for you at Grand Park, it's just in the shadow of city hall in downtown Los Angeles. There were several hundred people here, or even more than that, Kasie, who have gathered here, all in part to pay tribute to David Huerta, the president of the SEIU, the Service Employees International Union. This is a man who was taken into custody just a few blocks from where we are now in the garment district on Friday. The union says, Kasie, that he was out here trying to protect the rights of migrants who were being taken into custody during an ICE raid.
Of course, the federal government saying that this is not what happened. They're saying that what Huerta did was obstruct their efforts to take into custody people who are here illegally. And so, what we've seen is a number of people here who are gathering, they're saying by taking him into custody, that is making a tense situation even worse.
And, of course, law enforcement does not want to see a repeat of what they saw over the weekend. You had some dozen people who were arrested after protesters clashed with police, shut down part of the 101 freeway. At one point, they were throwing cement blocks at police, setting off fireworks in their direction. So, they don't want to see a repeat of that.
And those who I talked to out here today say they don't want to see that either. They're hoping their message of peace does not get lost through all of the violence.
HUNT: For sure. All right, Kristen, let me go to you. I want to talk to you about what we've heard from the president today and what we expect to hear next.
[16:05:00]
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: -- comes to the rhetoric, it seems like a lot of personal attacks. At one point, he said that governor Newsom was a nice guy, but he was totally incompetent. Then he pushed back on Newsom's claims that Trump wanted a civil war, saying it was Newsom that wanted a civil war, that if he wanted a civil war, he wouldn't have deployed the National Guard.
And then after those comments about arresting Newsom, saying that if he was his own border czar, Tom Homan, he would arrest Newsom, he pushed back to a reporter asking, what would his crime be? And this is obviously not a crime what he said. But instead, he said his primary crime was ever running for governor in the first place.
So, clearly here, this is getting incredibly personal. These are personal jabs. But we also know that there is a lot of emphasis on what's going on. And there are a lot of power behind both of these people.
Now, he was asked specifically a question about his past rhetoric when it came to deploying the National Guard. In particular, how he said in the past that it should be up to the governors.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: 2020, when you were talking about unrest in American cities, you said, quote, we have to go by the laws. We can't call in the National Guard unless we're requested by a governor. What changed now? Why is this situation different to not consult with Governor Newsom about this?
TRUMP: Well, the biggest change from that statement is we have an incompetent governor. So, I talked about governors, but I didn't talk about. He's an incompetent governor. Look at the job he's doing in
California. He's destroying one of our great states. And if I didn't get involved, if we didn't bring the guard in, and we would bring more in if we needed it, because we have to make sure there's going to be law and order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Of course, all of this is stemming from the fact that this is the first time in 60 years that the president has called in the National Guard without the request of the governor. It doesn't seem like this is ending any time soon.
When he was asked about a potential lawsuit, he pushed back on that too, saying, well, this is what we had to do. So, he is doubling, tripling down on this, bringing in the reinforcements without having the support of the state's governor.
HUNT: So speaking of reinforcements, Natasha, you have some new reporting on U.S. marines now being mobilized to L.A. What have you learned?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie, this is something that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth previewed over the weekend. He said that he would be willing to deploy Marines to Los Angeles to help with the crowd control and help deal with the protests there, in addition to the National Guard troops that were mobilized by President Donald Trump. And it now appears, according to our sources, that those marines who are based in California, they have been mobilized, and they are preparing to head to Los Angeles to help with these protests.
Now, it's unclear at this point exactly what their task is going to be. We're told that Defense Department lawyers are still kind of working out the rules of engagement for them, and the kind of left and right of what they can actually do once they're there. But were told that it is largely expected to mirror the kind of standing orders that the National Guard has, which is they can protect federal personnel if they are threatened. They are going to be protecting property, but ultimately, they cannot be engaged in law enforcement type activities like making arrests, for example, unless President Trump invokes the Insurrection Act, which would allow those troops, those National Guard troops, as well as the marines to start acting in a law enforcement capacity.
So, this is obviously a significant escalation in President Trump's use of the military on U.S. domestic soil as a show of force against these protesters. But ultimately, it is not entirely clear how different their role is going to be, if at all, from those National Guard troops who are already working inside Los Angeles alongside federal personnel to try to get these protests under control -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Natasha Bertrand, thank you very much for your reporting. Kristen Holmes, thank you. Jason Carroll, I know you'll bring us any developments that may unfold before you as you see them throughout the hour. Thank you all very much for being with us. Our panel joins us now. CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist
and podcast host, Lulu Garcia-Navarro, CNN political commentators Jonah Goldberg and Jamal Simmons, Republican strategist Matt Gorman is also here. And we're also joined by CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.
So just to set the stage for everybody here, this is the first time in 60 years that a president has deployed the National Guard against the wishes of a governor. When it happened, then it was President Lyndon Johnson who was protecting civil rights activists in Alabama.
Let's listen to how President Trump talked about these protesters today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The people that are causing the problem are professional agitators. They're insurrectionists. They're bad people. They should be in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Specifically, the president's choice of the word insurrectionists, likely no accident. Over the weekend, Trump refused to rule out invoking the Insurrection Act. That act allows him to deploy active-duty military troops on the streets of America's cities and towns to conduct law enforcement.
This does seem to be a fight that Donald Trump wants. He, of course, views law enforcement, crime, immigration issues as winning issues for him and the Republican Party. And the protests in California have allowed him to target a blue city in a blue state. And, of course, the state's Democratic governor likely to run for president in 2028.
The question is, of course, just how far will the president go? Let's look at how Gavin Newsom seems to be answering that question right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: This is serious. The people's lives are at stake. The reputation of this country is at stake. Great American cities and states, it's not just -- this is not -- this is a preview for things to come. This isn't about L.A., per se. It's about us today. It's about you. Everyone watching tomorrow.
I promise you. I mean, this this guy is unhinged. Donald Trump is unhinged right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. So, John Miller, I actually want to start with you because, you know, I was listening to how you were weighing in on what we're seeing play out here earlier today. And I was really hoping just how you, you could lay out for us how you're thinking about what we're seeing from the president here, the prospects of the invocation of the Insurrection Act and, of course, the implications.
You worked in law enforcement for so many years of what it would mean to have him. Now we're talking about active duty marines out on the streets.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's very interesting because from the LAPD standpoint, you've got the tactical considerations, the practical considerations, how many cops do we have? And, you know, what can we take on?
From the White House standpoint and from the larger government standpoint? What you have is a political game of chicken being played out, where they are looking at the LAPD's response to what ICE is doing in the field, and whether the LAPD has the ability to keep protesters and demonstrators back from interfering with their operations. Same with the L.A. sheriff, same with the California highway patrol.
But when you hear the president using words like violent professional agitators, insurrection, rebellion, this is the 1807 Insurrection Act. It says that the president can deploy the National Guard out from under the governor and take it over.
It says that -- it says that the president can deploy the military. And now we're at phase two of this, which is the marines were standing by. Now the marines are mobilized is the next step. And what is that tipping point, that the marines are coming when you have a governor, a mayor and a police chief all saying, we don't need the National Guard. We don't need the marines, and we have this situation under control with the resources we have.
So, the end game here is what? And we don't know the answer to this. Is it that they send the military in to the second largest city in the United States on the ground, essentially performing police functions, which has not happened in anybody's memory with the insurrection act, not even used on January 6th as a message to other sanctuary states, other sanctuary cities. And what is the tipping point that makes that happen?
HUNT: A really remarkable way to frame it.
And, Jonah Goldberg, I want to put this to you because, of course, taking over something like this, using federal resources to take over functions of a state is a remarkably dramatic course of action. What is your reaction to this and how, you know, there have been so many moments covering President Trump over the years where people will, you know, honestly be very alarmed, right? How loud is this alarm ringing for you?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's pretty loud. Look, I mean, Donald Trump has had a long time infatuation with the idea of using military force within our borders, not just along them. In 1990, he gave an interview to "Playboy Magazine", where he talked about how he sort of praised the willingness of the Chinese communist party to show the power of strength by crushing the Tiananmen protesters. And this first administration, he floated the idea of shooting protesters. In fact, if you look at just in the context, the entire second Trump
term, he has been trying to invoke war powers across the board, like all these fights about trade is his attempt to use powers granted allegedly to the president to deal with trade with war powers. And they're trying to take those kind of powers across the board.
When it was proposed that Biden send the National Guard into Texas to deal with Texas dealing with the border, which would have been a terrible idea. Kristi Noem said that would be an absolute violation of state rights.
[16:15:01]
Trump is testing, pushing, trying to get to that same place right now.
I don't think he's broken the law. I don't -- the law he's invoked, I think, gives him colorable authority to do this. But all the rhetoric about invasion, about insurrection, which predates this weekend by months, is all in the context of Trump trying to claim martial powers, which is under our Constitution when the president has the most authority.
HUNT: Let's pause for just a second on our political conversation. We're going to come back to it in just a second.
Let's go to Julia Vargas Jones, our CNN reporter who is in downtown Los Angeles at a protest that seems to be getting bigger.
Julia, what are you seeing?
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie. Just a testament to how quickly things can turn and get tense and release again. We have been here for about 10, 15 minutes as this crowd, a very peaceful crowd at first, has been assembling. This seems to be an interfaith group. It is an interfaith group who has come here to a peaceful rally. And they have been singing hymns. They have been asking for the release of families that were detained.
And that may or may not be inside the federal detention center in this federal building on the other side of here, we see Los Angeles police department in their riot gear. Those green weapons you see them holding, those a less lethal weapons. Those are rubber bullets that they have been using over the past few days.
And right behind them, behind this line, I'm not sure if our photographer can get that, but that is the National Guard. Also in riot gear seems to be. I also see a few members of DHS getting ready also in riot gear.
Now we have seen and we've been talking about this crowd analysis that protests Kasie. So, there are -- there are some folks here who seem to be more prepared for tear gas or prepared for when things get rougher, but this is a mixed crowd. So far, what we have been seeing them do is demand the release of families they have been asking for the release of David Huerta, the -- you can see one of these posters over here. David Huerta, the activist for immigrant rights and union leader that
that Governor Gavin Newsom posted about after he was detained over the weekend in one of these operations. And just as things get really tense, they swell up and they come back down to levels like this. And I think it just goes to show how thin the patience of everybody involved in this is. You know, we're going into day four of protests.
Both the LAPD and the other police forces that we have observed here this morning from Pasadena, from Burbank, other neighboring towns. Their patience has also been wearing thin, I am sure, as they have been working this protest and engaging with these demonstrations.
But so have the protesters who are out here in the sun and in the heat. Kasie, but still going strong. I want to point out also, we have been seeing more and more flags over here. I think that is a Salvadoran flag. We've been seeing Mexican flags showing up as a as a sign of solidarity with these families and these individuals that have been detained in these sweeping immigration rates that, according to the administration, will continue every day.
HUNT: All right. Julia Vargas Jones for us will, of course, continue monitoring this for us, as well as our CNN teams across the region.
Lulu Garcia-Navarro, we're going to keep these pictures up because some of what she was showing us, I think, you know, there are, of course, incredibly violent images that came out of the weekend that certainly have a lot of people concerned about some of the things that happened. But in the daylight, with protesters linked in arms singing hymns with National Guard troops behind them and police in riot gear, its a much different picture.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's a much different picture. They're expressing their constitutional right to protest. And the response when you're looking at this of, frankly, a few dozen people at most, maybe 50 or 60 seems excessive. Now, of course, we know that when I have covered many protests all over the world, we know that when night falls, things can often take a turn. So, you know, what you're seeing in one moment is not necessarily what you're going to be seeing in another moment.
But let's bring this into the wider context. The president of the United States is saying, I am going to send in U.S. Marines who might have to confront U.S. citizens in a U.S. city. This is unprecedented.
I have been in war zones in Iraq with marines. I have been all over the world with the U.S. military.
[16:20:01]
The U.S. military, and in fact, I think Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has been pushing this line is a force, a lethal force to be used in war. This is not war, is it?
HUNT: Certainly what we're seeing right now is not war.
Matt Gorman? MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: And those aren't marines, either.
Those are LAPD. I mean, look, my advice is the mayor --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: We're talking about the marines.
(CROSSTALK)
GORMAN: -- need to get their act together, because what Jason, he reported it well, reported it well, when you have concrete being thrown at police, that that is not acceptable. That's more than just a protest, okay? That needs to be taken care of.
And so, if you don't want it to escalate, then control it. I saw a juxtaposition today. You had Karen Bass on with Wolf and Pam Brown at 11:05 this morning saying, everything's calm, everything's under control, and there's tape from the night before about a car exploding.
So tonight, if you actually mean that, get it together as a state and doing podcast interviews and all this stuff and actually control your city, otherwise you are going to give Donald Trump the justification whether to escalate things and respond in kind.
HUNT: Jamal?
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, in 1965, March 1965, Lyndon Johnson sent troops to Selma, Alabama, to protect marchers. One of the reasons he had to send federal troops there was because the local police forces and the governor were standing against the people. They weren't actually trying to enforce the federal law, enforce the law.
What you have in California is not the same situation. What you have are local officials who are actually trying to enforce the law. They're keeping people under control. So, if you're going to send marines to train in San Diego and Parris Island as a combat force, a lethal force, if you're going to send them into American communities, you want to do that because there's something happening that's so extreme that you have to take a very extreme action.
And one thing that Lyndon Johnson did not do is send -- is threatened to arrest George Wallace, who had previously said he was going to stand in the schoolhouse door, right, to stop Vivian Malone and John James Wood from coming into the University of Alabama.
He did not threaten to arrest George Wallace for doing his job. That's what we're seeing right now with Gavin Newsom.
HUNT: All right. We're going to have a lot more to talk about here throughout this hour as we continue to monitor this continually unfolding situation.
Up next, we're going to talk to a member of Congress who represents the Los Angeles area. Plus, how the public battle between Donald Trump and Gavin Newsom is not the first time, and it won't be the last time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We are continuing to follow the news out of Los Angeles.
Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Linda Sanchez of California. Her district includes parts of Los Angeles County. ICE began conducting raids today at Home Depots in two of the cities in her district.
Congresswoman, thank you very much for being here.
I think I'd just like to start by asking you what you know about the raids that are unfolding in your district and what the response of your constituents has been.
REP. LINDA SANCHEZ (D-CA): Sure. Well, what I know is that very early this morning, ICE showed up at the city hall in one of my cities and started staging for a sweep. They later, they didn't notify the city. They didn't notify the local police that they were going to be there. And then they left in mass and ended up at a Home Depot trying to apprehend day laborers who gather there.
Obviously, people are upset to see this happening in my community because they know that these officers are not following the law. They're not giving these people due process. They're picking up citizens in some of these sweeps. They picked up a marshal in one of these sweeps.
So, it's not limited to people who are undocumented in this country. They are picking up native born citizens as well, and they're just disappearing off the streets. No due process. No. No ability to call a family member or an immigration attorney to try to help them. They just grabbed them and then disappear with them. It's very concerning.
HUNT: What do you say to those protesters who, when night falls, have clearly engaged in acts of violence, of vandalism, of things that, you know, do very clearly violate the law?
SANCHEZ: Sure. Well, we have been calling for protesters to protest peacefully. That is their constitutional right. The vast majority of protesters have been peaceful.
There are always a few bad actors. And yes, we think anybody who commits property damage ought to be arrested, and they ought to be prosecuted. But to send in federal troops or marines when there isn't a war atmosphere or war circumstance going on, is just -- it's beyond the pale. I mean, it's authoritarian flexing. It's not making anybody safer.
Local law enforcement has said they can handle the protest. It's no different than when a team wins a national championship and people get overexcited and they overturn vehicles and light them on fire. Local law enforcement is prepared to handle those types of situations.
Marines and National Guardsmen are not. They -- their job is to be very aggressive in war zones. And you are he -- Donald Trump is deploying these people on the streets of L.A. against U.S. citizens.
I've never seen anything like it. It frightens me to my core because it is very clearly meant to intimidate. He's sowing chaos. He wants to provoke a violent reaction, because then he wants to use that as an excuse to send in these troops and flex his authoritarian muscles.
[16:30:08]
HUNT: We do want to be clear here, just that CNN's current reporting is that these marines are being mobilized at this point, that the uniformed troops were seeing on the streets right now are still National Guard. Just to underscore that, although, of course, I understand what you're saying about active duty military and the distinction that you're making there.
Do you -- are you 100 percent confident in what we have seen from LAPD in response to this, considering that there have been some very difficult incidents, were Donald Trump not president, is there any world where the California governor might call in his National Guard in a circumstance like this one, or is there not?
SANCHEZ: Gavin Newsom is a very smart guy. I completely believe that if situations got out of hand, he would do what was necessary in order to restore the calm. But right now, even though there have been very tense moments, what people are reacting to is the injustice, the lack of due process, the constitutional violations that are happening. And yet the Trump administration has the gall to call these people lawbreakers and criminals when he, in fact, is the one that is breaking the law.
It is his administration that is not following due process, that are violating, trampling people's constitutional rights. You know, something that really gets me angry is they always say, well, we want people -- we want immigrants to do the legal way.
They are picking up immigrants at their immigration hearings, which they are required to attend in order to continue their process of becoming a citizen. And what they are doing is sending ICE agents to apprehend people at these immigration hearings. It's like telling a citizen, hey, you've got a traffic violation, and if you don't show up in court, we're going to impound your car, and then you show up in court and they grab you and throw you in handcuffs, and they disappear you.
In what country is that Democratic? It is crazy town USA. And it is because Trump wants to create this situation of chaos.
These National Guardsmen and the marines that he's calling up aren't going to make the streets any safer. The streets, as you've seen by the footage today, are very calm. I have every confidence that local police and sheriffs and the CHP can handle the situation. There is no need for this kind of lethal force on the streets of Los Angeles.
HUNT: All right. Congresswoman Linda Sanchez, I'm very grateful for your time today. Thank you very much for joining us.
SANCHEZ: Thank you for having me.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, we're going to take a deeper look at how the battle over immigration enforcement, just the latest back and forth between Donald Trump and Gavin Newsom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:09]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What crime has Governor Newsom committed?
TRUMP: A crime has he committed?
REPORTER: Yes, to warrant his arrest.
TRUMP: I think his primarily -- primary crime is running for governor because he's done such a bad job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So this weekend's series of events, just the latest installment of President Trump versus Governor Gavin Newsom, according to California's attorney general, the state has sued the Trump administration at almost double the rate compared to in his first term. But in one of his latest Truth Social posts, the president says that Newsom should be saying, quote, thank you, President Trump. You are so wonderful, and we would be nothing without you, sir.
Lanhee Chen, former policy director for Mitt Romney, joins our panel now.
And, Lanhee, let me start with you. Just, you know, you are kind of familiar with the governor of your state. Obviously, you ran for statewide office yourself. For viewers who don't know you, you worked for Mitt Romney, and you have done a lot of work in the foreign policy space for the Republican Party, as it was before Donald Trump came on the scene.
What is your analysis of what's playing out between these two men, between Donald Trump and Gavin Newsom right now, as we have this threat to arrest the governor and the president saying to the border czar, I think it would be a great thing if that happened.
LANHEE CHEN, FELLOW AT THE HOOVER INSTITUTION AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Well, I think, Kasie, first of all, there's a political layer which we'll talk about in a minute. The policy layer, I think, is a little bit easier in some ways because the president's authority under Title 10, the president's other authority with respect to mobilizing the National Guard in this way, you know, my sense is that the legal framework there is more or less on the president's side. We'll see how the facts get arbitrated. We'll see how that comes out.
But my sense is that on the policy side, the rationale for the president to act there, things were what he says, out of control. And so, he did what he did.
But the political element here is interesting, though, because you have in Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump, two men that have really been foils for one another in a lot of ways. And everything that Newsom has done or most of what Newsom has done from a policy perspective, are things that Donald Trump has used to his political advantage. And, by the way, vice versa. Gavin Newsom finds it useful to have Donald Trump as a foil as well.
So that political conflict, I think, in a lot of ways, is what is at core in this current situation. We find in L.A.
Obviously, the images, everything that's going on is not great. But from a political perspective, I think these two men have found in some ways their ideal foils in one another.
HUNT: What's your assessment of where if there is a line here that is akin to the Rubicon, once we cross it, we can't go back.
I mean, if is it -- if President Trump does send in active duty marines, would that represent something like that? I mean, I take your point on what you think about the argument so far, but we are learning that this does seem to be escalating.
CHEN: Yeah. Well, obviously, if there were the imposition of active duty military, that would be clearly another level. If we were to see actual engaged conflict, for example, between any of the National Guard, officials and protesters, if that were to happen, that would represent a significant escalation. There are a lot of ways, Kasie, this can escalate. And I don't think that most of the ways it can escalate are, frankly, very good, either for Governor Newsom or for the president.
So, I do think it is ultimately in the best interest of both not to escalate, but de-escalate. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the pathway that we're on right now.
HUNT: Right.
Well, and Jonah Goldberg, to that point, it doesn't seem to be the path that we're on. What's your assessment of how Gavin Newsom is handling this?
GOLDBERG: I think Lanhee gets at one of the real reasons why this is going to get worse before it gets better. Gavin Newsom is the latest in a very long line of people who benefit enormously with their constituencies by picking a fight with Donald Trump, right? I mean, going back to Michael Avenatti, remember him, right? There are these people who become resistance avatars or heroes of the base of the Democratic Party. And they get to play the martyr by going after Donald Trump.
And it works for both sides in a way that leaves the center without a lot of grownups in it. And so, I worry that this is going to keep escalating, until something terrible happens. And then maybe cooler heads will prevail. HUNT: Lulu?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, I think that's true. I'll also say that on the one side, you have Donald Trump saying arrest the governor of --
GOLDBERG: I'm not saying they're both equally wrong.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, no. No, no, no, I understand, but I want to make that point because yes, politically, if were just looking at a pure politics, they do benefit from each other.
But let us again step back here and note that the president of the United States has said, gee, it might be okay if we arrest the governor of California. It might be okay. It might be cool.
He's not Michael Avenatti. He's the governor of California. He was elected.
And so I think, again, we are in a different place than we were before.
HUNT: I mean, Matt Gorman, I will say this. I mean, flashes back to lock her up with Hillary, right? It's we as a nation in our politics have gone from the consequences of my disagreeing with you on a political issue are going to be fought in the halls of Congress to were going to talk about using law enforcement against each other.
GORMAN: And every -- kind of piggyback of Jonah's point. They have no incentive to back down from either of this. They have every incentive to escalate this. They are each other's natural foil on this.
And so, I think to Lanhee's point, as well, they are politically incentivized, each of them to their own constituencies to escalate this and ratchet this up.
HUNT: Jamal, very quick last word.
SIMMONS: Yeah. The one politician I hear more about in terms of 2020 than anyone else is Gavin Newsom. From people in the Democratic Party who don't live in Washington and New York. And one of the strengths Gavin Newsom has is that he goes into the fight, he goes into the fire, and Democrats are looking for people with courage.
And Newsom seems to have that kind of courage to take on Trump and whatever other problem exists in the state of California. We'll see how that pans out, though. Weve got two and a half years left.
HUNT: We got a while. We do.
Lanhee Chen, so grateful to have you on the show today, sir. Thank you so much for being here. And you're going to be here on the panel later on this week. See you then.
All right. Coming up next here, how Republicans see the immigration protests and the president's involvement. Republican Congressman Zach Nunn of Iowa will be here, live in THE ARENA. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:49]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's destroying one of our great states. And if I didn't get involved, if we didn't bring the guard in, and we would bring more in if we needed it, because we have to make sure there's going to be law and order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump telling reporters this afternoon that more National Guard troops will be deployed to California if needed. Joining us to discuss Republican Congressman Zach Nunn of Iowa.
Congressman, thanks very much for being here.
So the former acting vice chief of the National Guard bureau, retired major general, gave this statement to CNN. He says this, quote: The president's federal deployment of the National Guard over the official wishes of the governor is bad for all Americans concerned about freedom of speech and state's rights. It tramples the governor's rights and obligations to protect his people. This is an inappropriate use of the National Guard and is not warranted.
Do you agree?
REP. ZACH NUNN (R-IA): Well, look, I've been a member of the National Guard, and we have seen this happen time and time again. The president has the right to move a National Guard unit from called Title 32 to Title 10 and federalize the force.
You know, when COVID broke out, individual states stepped out because, candidly, we weren't getting the support we needed.
HUNT: But this is the first time it's happened over the objection of a governor since the Civil Rights era.
NUNN: Yeah, but you know what? I think that we saw the proof in the pudding here. The president moved when other folks weren't. And as a result, a sanctuary city which wasn't holding these guys accountable.
We had federal agents having rocks thrown through their window while they were driving. We had cars being lit aflame in the street. We had communities asking for help.
We had a commissioner from the LAPD actually come out and say, hey, it's not what our elected officials here are telling us. This is now becoming a dangerous situation on the ground.
The president stepped forward and said, I'm putting troops in there to protect the men and women in blue who are on the front lines doing this, and to have that backup with the National Guard there, I think was absolutely important. It may have prevented it from getting much worse this weekend.
HUNT: We have reporting here at CNN that about 700 marines are being mobilized to Los Angeles. You are a member of the reserves yourself. Youve served in uniform for decades.
Is this the right use of active duty marines?
NUNN: Look, I believe strongly in Posse Comitatus, which is a requirement that were not using military forces against our own citizens. As a combat deployed veteran, I feel very strongly here that the use of our military should be to protect our country.
[16:50:02]
But there also needs to be a protection of our country at our border and tragically, in this case, potentially inside the country, being able to back up our National Guardsmen, our law enforcement with military troops is not unheard of. And it's there to make sure that this doesn't get bigger.
Here's what I know. I mean, you can talk to people in the media right now. In fact, I think CNN had it that these were rallies. Now they've become protests. I'm afraid that by tonight they become riots.
If we don't have the ability to stand up and stop this violence before it consumes a great city like Los Angeles, then there's no telling where this could spread. The president is right to stand up and take a firm stance on those who would rather wave Mexican flags, start cars on fires, and protest illegals, 10 million of whom who came into our country. Rather than stand up for the communities, the shop owners, the businesses who are actually living in these places like L.A.
HUNT: When we have seen riots before in this country, and certainly Los Angeles has dealt with this in the past, the National Guard has been able to handle it.
NUNN: Yeah, absolutely.
HUNT: What's different now?
NUNN: In 1992, the last time that we saw the National Guard deployed to L.A., there was mass uprising from this. Look, I think we're at a situation right now where we have a local government, a state governor who's dramatically opposed to this.
We have a sanctuary city in L.A. that refuses to stand with federal law enforcement. We have cops who are bleeding in the street.
HUNT: Why is the National Guard not good enough, I guess? Why do we need the Marines?
NUNN: Well, you know, I think that active duty military is really the question here. It doesn't matter whether it's the Marines, the Army, the Air Force. The fact of the matter is, we want to be able to back up the folks on the ground who are right now receiving rocks, fire hit, bleeding in the street. Theres no reason that we should be at a situation where we've had this kind of tumult and the LAPD saying the governor's not with them.
HUNT: I'm just stuck on the National Guard not being enough to handle it. Like, why? Why? For all the things we've seen in our country --
(CROSSTALK)
NUNN: Yeah, Kasie, I would say the most deployable force right there, right? I mean, so you've got Camp Pendleton right there. We're talking about proximity and the ability to refill.
So I think that this is an absolutely appropriate use. I think you'll find that legally it's on that side. And if Congress needs to step in and grant this to the president, we should be able to protect these communities.
HUNT: Would you be comfortable with the Democratic president doing this?
NUNN: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that we've seen a Democratic president do this before.
HUNT: Do you want to see President Trump invoke the Insurrection Act?
NUNN: I think that we should have a conversation on how do we deescalate now at this point, because of the president's quick action, he's already moved in aggressively on this. But I am concerned that after tonight, this may spread to other cities. And as a result, you know, guardsmen are part time members of the community for the most part.
Now, they've been treated horribly in L.A., both by the governor, the mayor, and candidly, a lot of Californians, many of whom are actually members of the local National Guard there.
We need to make sure that we recognize the law enforcement, and the military members here are there to help protect the community. They're not the enemy of the people. And tragically, I've got members of congress who are saying that right now that law enforcement is not enforcing the law.
Well, the reality is here we have a number of people who have stepped over the boundary and put people at harm in their own communities by doing this kind of very violent act.
HUNT: You mentioned how guardsmen members have been tweeted -- being treated. Gavin Newsom, the governor, put out on Twitter a story from "The Chronicle". We're still kind of reporting out the details here, but the reporting from "The Chronicle" that there was not enough federal funding for these guard members. They've had to sleep on the floor for this reason.
What would you urge the president to do in terms of supporting the troops?
NUNN: No, I think the presidents already stood up and supported this. Now, here's the reality. The governor could have helped make these things happen. But at every step of the way, it's been a decision by the governor to try and fight against President Trump. I think, candidly, for his own political gain on this. The president also needs to be able to step forward.
But here's what Governor Newsom should be doing. It's the same thing that I did when we deployed with our guard, both in my elected capacity as well as my guard capacity. Go out there and stand with your troops. Be there on the front line. De-escalate by being present in this environment. Don't be behind a microphone. Be out there with the men and women in blue and the men and women in fatigues, and help your community heal at this point.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Nunn, I know you have some legislation around China and agriculture and things that are very important. And we were originally going to have a great conversation about that. We've obviously had some breaking news today.
NUNN: Yeah.
HUNT: So I really hope you'll come back and we can have a longer conversation.
NUNN: I appreciate it, Kasie. Thanks so much.
HUNT: Thank you very much for being here.
All right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Welcome back. Here is another live look at downtown Los Angeles. Of course, we are relying on those cameras that are overhead to give us a sense of what's unfolding on the streets. Let's just take a quick loop around the panel here.
Some final thoughts today, Lulu, about just what this means at this moment. It does seem -- I'm interested in your thoughts as though this is something this president, as we've discussed, both sides do not seem to be interested in de-escalation.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, I think we're at a very perilous point, and I think we might be at a place that we can't come back from. But I also want to say, just in terms of politically, I don't think this will help President Trump with Latinos. I mean, he did a lot of good work with the Latino community, and we have seen that being eroded. And all of this does not play into the idea that he is a president that really takes their concerns seriously.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, I agree with that. I also think it's worth pointing out that, you know, the George Floyd riots are one of the things that moved a lot of working class Blacks and Latinos rightward. This myth that somehow direct action helps the left is a lie.
HUNT: All right. I'm going to have to apologize, unfortunately, to you, Matt and Jamal.
Jake Tapper is standing by here for "THE LEAD".
Jake, take it away.
