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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

New: Minnesota Suspect Will Remain In Custody Until Next Hearing; Israel & Iran Trade Attacks As Conflict Escalates; Activists Wage Nationwide Protests Against Trump Policies. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired June 16, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Of course, they tell on themselves. No, they don't. They get up, they hurry out.

The Palazzo Maffei in Verona filed a police report. Just released the footage as a reminder to treat art with respect. The museum was able to repair that chair.

I mean, come on, guys.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: I'm glad they repaired it. But wouldn't you put something like that in, like, a glass case? I feel like it's so obvious. We do these stories.

KEILAR: What about a little sign that says like, hey, don't be dumb?

SANCHEZ: Yeah, but people disrespect those signs. You got to -- you got to guard it better than that.

KEILAR: "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts now.

SANCHEZ: I blame the museum.

(MUSIC)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news this hour. Chilling new details about that massacre in Minnesota.

Let's head into THE ARENA.

Authorities for the first time lay out step by step just how Saturday's attacks unfolded. The suspect Vance Boelter now believed to have visited four lawmakers homes and, quote, stalked his victims like prey.

This as Boelter makes his first court appearance facing federal and state murder charges that could put the death penalty on the table.

Plus, Israel and Iran intensify their attacks. The assault now in its fourth day as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu doesn't rule out potentially targeting Iran's supreme leader.

Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. We're glad to have you with us here on this Monday.

But at this hour, we do have chilling new details about yet another act of political violence in America. Once again, a community is in mourning and our country is left wondering if we now simply accept something that should be completely unacceptable, something that should absolutely not be normal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH H. THOMPSON, ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA: Political assassinations are rare. They strike at the very core of our democracy. But the details of this crime are even worse. They are truly chilling.

It is no exaggeration to say that his crimes are the stuff of nightmares. Boelter stalked his victims like prey. He went to their homes, held them out as a police officer, and shot them in cold blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, this is what the victims saw when they opened their door to find the man police say they allege was Vance Boelter. It's really striking. He was charged today by state and federal authorities with allegedly shooting two Minnesota lawmakers and their spouses on Saturday. Police say that he dressed like a cop and wore a rubber face mask. And those images are terrifying.

Law enforcement today alleging that after he shot John and Yvette Hoffman, Boelter visited two other lawmakers homes, then he killed Melissa and Mark Hortman in their home. His rampage ended there, but in the manhunt that followed, police found an apparent hit list with the names of more than 45 state and federal officials. All of this violence, all of this hatred and the death. It is not normal. We can't let it be normal. And yet, I guess we have to accept that something has been changing in America.

"The New York Times" put it this way. Like school shootings, political violence is becoming almost routine. I mean, let's think about it. The arson attack on the Pennsylvania governor and his family, the two assassination attempts against President Trump, the bludgeoning of Paul Pelosi by a man with a hammer, the deadly assault on the capitol on January 6th. Steve Scalise shot a congressional baseball practice. Gabby Giffords shot at a supermarket while she met with constituents. Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, the target of a kidnaping attempt.

Last year, Capitol police investigated more than 9,000 threatening or concerning statements made against members of Congress, their families and their staff. How high was that number eight years ago? It was half that much.

Political violence is becoming almost routine. We should not accept that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) THOMPSON: I mean, this was a political assassination, which is not a word we use very often in the United States, let alone here in Minnesota. It's a -- it's a chilling attack on our democracy, on our way of life. It's only the most recent example of violent political extremism in this country. And that's a trend that's been increasing in recent years. And it's unfortunate, and I hope it a wake up call to everyone that people can disagree with you without being evil or needing to be killed or hurt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Our panel is here. We're also joined by CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild, who's live outside federal court in St. Paul, Minnesota.

[16:05:02]

Whitney, you were inside court for this appearance. Take us inside the courthouse. What you see? What you hear? What else are we learning about the suspect?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, this hearing was brief. Vance Boelter came in. He was flanked by three deputy U.S. Marshals. He did not have shackles on his wrists or his feet. He was dressed in an orange jumpsuit with slippers on the left hand side of the courtroom, where three prosecutors.

Again, this was a very routine hearing for what is an extraordinary case. And the bulk of the hearing today focused on whether or not he can afford an attorney.

He basically told the judge he cannot afford an attorney. He only works part time. He only makes $540 a week, if that. Then he went through his other financial details, saying that he had seven cars. He believed in his name that he has a home, that it is paid off. And so they were just like, you know, these, you know, financial details that they had to get through in order to appoint him a public defender.

And the judge said based on the severity of these cases, he found it very unlikely that he'd be able to afford a private attorney that could defend him against -- again, these very severe charges here.

Kasie, this ends what had been a weekend of fear here in Minnesota, a weekend of a lot of work for the dozens of law enforcement agencies from the locals all the way up through the long alphabet of federal agencies that were involved here. And it ended as multiple SWAT teams descended on him. And this was late Sunday evening when they descended on him, basically encircled him and convinced him to come out peacefully.

Kasie, a remarkable moment because he had a firearm on him. They convinced him through their swat commands and through their negotiation tactics, to crawl to them. He was taken into custody without incident. This today we are learning more details and they are even more chilling than we than we could have imagined over the weekend. So I'm going to have you listen to the acting U.S. attorney here, who

describes the moment he arrived at State Senator John Hoffman's house, kicking off this bloody rampage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMPSON: When Boelter lowered his flashlight, which he had shined in their face, they realized that he was not a police officer. They shouted out, you're not a cop, you're not a police officer. Boelter then announced, this is a robbery and forced himself into their home. When Senator Hoffman attempted to push Boelter out and stop him from entering his home, Boelter shot him repeatedly. Boelter then shot Ms. Hoffman repeatedly. Boelter fled the scene, and the Hoffmans' daughter called 911.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Kasie, absolutely terrifying. We also have a text message that he sent to his family afterward. This is according to the federal court documents. And he said, in effect, dad went to war tonight and he declined to provide them any more detail.

Again, this was a chilling weekend, a terrifying weekend, a very complex case for law enforcement. But they were able to bring him into custody, Kasie, and I cannot stress this enough that this was the result of very good cooperation, very good working relationships between the locals and federal agencies here. And that was absolutely critical to bringing him into custody. They utilized all of the resources of the FBI. They also utilized the resources of the Minnesota state police.

They had eyes in the air, eyes on the ground. This was a full team effort that that culminated in what is really basic law enforcement boots on the ground, many teams encircling him on foot to bring him into custody, Kasie. He will now remain in federal custody. There's also in state court where we know he's facing a long list of charges that he is been issued a bench warrant and has also been issued a $5 million bond there.

But for now, he is in federal custody, Kasie.

HUNT: And, of course, that house where he went, the Hoffman house was the first of four houses that he visited over the course of this rampage.

Whitney Wild, thanks very much for that reporting.

Our panel is here now. The host of "The Chuck Toddcast", Chuck Todd; CNN chief legal analyst, anchor Laura Coates; Democratic strategist Adrienne Elrod; CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd; and CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

Welcome to all of you.

I want to dig into the legal and then the political implications of this.

But, John Miller, I do want to start with you first here, because, I mean, Whitney outlined, you know, how they went about tracking this guy down, you know, but I think, you know, the first thought I have is that somebody learns that he does all of these things, and they're immediately you wonder if someone's going to look at it and try to essentially replicate what he did here, which is even more chilling. I mean, what of these details stands out to you, and what are the next what are your questions about this?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's interesting you frame it that way because what -- what have we seen? We have seen Luigi Mangione who decides that his issue is health care and comes out of the shadows as someone we've never heard of and then kills the head of, you know, the fourth largest corporation and the largest health care provider insurance company in the country.

[16:10:15]

Then we see, you know, these other these other things, an attack on the governor of Pennsylvania. You see these incidents against elected officials here. You see the Capitol police reporting that their level of threats against members of Congress are at all time highs, and that they're in a constant state of threat assessment. With these, we saw the Nancy Pelosi attack a couple of years ago in in California, that that her husband suffered at the hands of an attacker.

And you -- you have to ask. So, this can't be a state of new normal. It's just not acceptable. But how does one of these offenders attack and the attention it receive drive another offender to maybe speed up something they've been thinking about? And that is a big concern for local law enforcement across the country, and particularly the FBI.

HUNT: So, Laura Coates, the legal aspects here. I mean, as Whitney reported, looking like he'll need a public defender. I'm interested to know how that might come into play here, especially because this could be a death penalty case. And we also are seeing, I believe the charges were second degree murder. They need an indictment for first degree murder. What's next here?

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, for somebody who is indigent or unable to provide their own defense, still is required to have one. We do have that Sixth Amendment that says they are due. So, it will be ironic for many jurors of the court of public opinion to know that they are -- it was a political assassination alleged against somebody that is a member of office, an elected member, and to actually pay for somebody to defend against somebody taking up a life in that way.

But what's next here is really going to be the digging into the details in terms of whether this these crimes that have been charged at the federal level are sufficient enough. Right now, there's what, six different penalties that could be life in prison. Remember, Minnesota is not a death penalty state, but these are federal crimes. And the federal death penalty is in effect. President Trump recently going back on what President Biden had done

to commute sentences and restored the death penalty. In certain instances, this will be the absence of a moratorium on the death penalty if he is convicted. It's important because people might think, well, it's a death penalty state that's only going to apply. No, not here.

But ultimately, there is that looming notion here of why he did it. If it was somehow or some reason to try to change the government or to influence conduct, you may have more investigation about terrorism, may have more investigations about whether somebody helped him in some way after the fact, aiding and abetting all these things come into play. Most importantly, the federal crime does not negate the state level prosecutions at all. These will be essentially parallel track, but the death penalty, a higher penalty will take precedent.

HUNT: So, Chuck Todd, I mean, big picture here, right? I mean, running through all of those things, right, that we have seen play out. And it just strikes me that what we have seen is an acceleration of this kind, these kinds of events. I mean, I was -- I went out to Arizona and, you know, stood outside Gabby Giffords hospital room when we were trying to figure out was she going to survive this horrible, horrible attack.

And we were all so jarred because this was something that was so rare, so out of the blue. And when I list all of those other things that we have all collectively covered, they're becoming closer and closer together. The details are becoming chilling and worse.

And instead of our politics being about how are we disagreeing and sorting through them with our words, how are people acting out there, the angst and the problems in this violent way. What does that say about us?

CHUCK TODD, HOST OF "THE CHUCK TODDCAST": Well, look, I don't, you know, while I think your list was nearly exhaustive, I would have included the --

HUNT: It wasn't.

C. TODD: -- Israeli embassy staffers who were just murdered and assassinated here in this list. And I'd include the Tree of Life assassin because that was politically motivated as well.

Look, we're -- it's clear we're in a --

HUNT: And fire attack in Boulder is another one as well.

C. TODD: I mean, that's the point, right? You sit there and you're like, oh, what about this? And John Miller brought up the, the, the assassination of the -- of the CEO. Also really a political motivation. I think the thing that is the most biggest head-scratcher to me is the lack of interest in Congress to do any investigating. I can't believe we don't have a major investigation into the Trump assassination. I -- you know, you think about all of the things that our government

did to investigate MLK's assassination, JFK's assassination, RFK's assassination, the lack of interest in this town about putting this together. There's a lot of -- there's a lot of angles we can go here.

We can sit here. And some people are going to go down one political lane and say, it's mostly this or one another and say, either way, were in a reactionary period, right? Just like we were in the '60s and '70s when we had this rise.

[16:15:00]

I mean, the last time we had a level of political violence like this was in the '70s. But there are two things that have disappointed me. One is this Congress's lack of interest in trying to like, let's get to the bottom of this. Is this a cultural thing? Is this a political leadership thing? Is this a rhetoric thing? And I think we need to have a heart to heart on this.

And the second thing is the lack of leadership from President Trump. This is a moment there's only one president that we have. Doesn't matter what you think of him left or right, if he's not going to stand up in this moment and say, whoa.

And it's surprising. He's a victim himself and the lack of empathy, I feel like he has shown in this moment has been -- has been troubling.

And frankly, I think to be politically crass, this is what we need presidential leadership right now. We're in a -- we need presidential leadership in the Iran-Israel situation. The world needs that, and America needs it right now in this tinderbox that we're living in. And he's not choosing to meet the moment. And it's disappointing.

HUNT: So, let's look at what President Trump has put up so far on this. So, there was a post on Truth Social on Saturday saying that he'd been briefed about the terrible shooting.

He said that lawmakers would be investigated. He said such horrific violence will not be tolerated in the United States of America. And he said, God bless the great people of Minnesota, a truly great place.

Then, though, he spoke with ABC yesterday on Sunday, and here's what he said. He said, quote, well, it's a terrible thing. He was asked if he was going to call Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota. I think he's a terrible governor. I think he's a grossly incompetent person. But I may call him. I may call other people, too.

Then there are also, of course, was this post from Mike Lee, a Republican senator from Utah, who posted nightmare on Walz Street. Unclear if that's a typo.

Again, how some -- a member of Congress is reacting to this.

Brad Todd, let me show you what Senator Amy Klobuchar said this morning when she was asked about Mike Lee's post. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): I will speak to him about this when I return, and what I'm going to tell him is, you know, this isn't funny what happened here? This was an incredible woman. Her husband, her two kids yesterday and Father's Day. This is not a laughing matter. And certainly, what we're seeing in increasing violence, and this evil man who did this. This is not a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Brad, what should our leadership look like right now and our leaders meeting the moment?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Mike Lee is a bit of a provocateur sometimes. It's not the first social media post that he's going to eventually wish he hadn't done. I don't think. I think this goes much further back than President Trump.

You know, I remember in 2013, Floyd Lee Corkins came into the Family Research Council and attempted to assassinate everyone there for political motivations. We all know about the congressional Republican baseball team. In 2017, we mentioned Steve Scalise nearly lost his life, but they all, well, could have lost their lives. That was a left-wing Bernie Sanders supporting activist that that did that.

Now you have to be crazy to do these things, right? It's not -- we shouldn't immediately assign there's some political rationale to these things that make sense, and that's acceptable. I think we also have to look at how much security we're providing. Members of Congress, much less state legislators in Minnesota, operate with very little protection, really pretty much what they provide for themselves.

HUNT: It's basically like a part time job, a lot of them.

B. TODD: Well, a concealed carry permit is mostly the protection you can get for yourself in those jobs. And so that's it. That may be something we have to address in an ever online world where every single person in America can decide they don't like somebody just because they serve in office.

HUNT: Adrienne Elrod, there are, of course, reports trickling out. Our Manu Raju reported that Hillary Scholten of Michigan has canceled a town hall in Muskegon after she learned that her name came up in researching this. Greg Landsman, a congressman from Ohio who's been outspoken about protecting Jewish Americans, also, apparently on the list as well.

The implications here are pretty terrifying. What, in your view, is the responsibility of our leaders?

ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think it's the responsibility of our leaders is to come together, both Democrats and Republicans. I think we do need more leadership out of President Trump, no matter who the sitting President is. But we cannot sit here and blame this on Democrats versus Republicans. If we're going to actually solve this political violence or at least

reduce and take down the temperature, we've got to come together as a country.

Look, the bottom line is this this is, Kasie, is that since January 20th, since -- I'm sorry, since January 6th, since the political insurrection of the Capitol, violence has gone up. And we need to tone down the rhetoric across the board, and we need to make sure that this administration is taking it seriously.

You just mentioned lawmakers, state and local lawmakers. Most of them are working part time. They do not have security. Most members of Congress here don't have security. I don't know if that is going to need to change.

I don't think people need to be walking around with a concealed carry gun or weapon to defend themselves just because they want to serve in elected.

[16:20:05]

B. TODD: It's not a bad idea for anybody, whether or not --

ELROD: They want to serve in public service.

But, the bottom line is we just have to do something about this because it's dangerous and it's terrifying.

HUNT: All right. Well, this is, of course, unfortunately, a long, ongoing conversation that I hope we don't have to have again. But we are, of course, faced -- we're all faced with dealing with this in our in our politics and in our lives.

John Miller, thanks very much.

Laura Coates, very grateful to have you. Thanks very much for coming in for us.

Be sure to watch "LAURA COATES LIVE" tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.

The rest of our panel will stand by for us.

But up next here, we're going to talk with a Minnesota lawmaker who knew Melissa Hortman, Congresswoman Betty McCollum will be here live with us.

Plus, the new comments from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the action he's now not ruling out in what is an escalating conflict with Iran.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:15]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back. We're learning more haunting details about the shootings of two

Democratic Minnesota lawmakers and their spouses on Saturday. Officials revealing the suspect went to four lawmakers' homes with the intent to kill.

Joining us now, Minnesota Democratic Congresswoman Betty McCollum.

Congresswoman, I'm so grateful to have you on the show.

I know you had a personal relationship with Melissa Hortman, and my condolences to you, our condolences to you on the loss of your friend and colleague. I wanted to start with just your reflections on who she was as a person, and she obviously was targeted because in part, or at least we think in part because of the work that she was doing.

Can you talk a little bit about what that work meant to her and why that makes this just all the more chilling?

REP. BETTY MCCOLLUM (D-MN): You know, thank you. And I also want to express of my best wishes towards John and Yvette as they continue in their recovery, but to talk about Melissa's very special. I met Melissa when she was first running for office in 1998. I was in the Minnesota House at the time when we were recruiting candidates, and just door knocking with her.

She wanted, you know, great places for kids to live. She wanted to make sure seniors retired with dignity. Protect our environment. She just shared Minnesota values. I think that that are at the heart of what she wanted to work on -- a better community, a better state.

And she was a consensus builder. You know, she had great ideas, but she was always open to listen to other people's ideas. She was a member's member, but always put her constituents first.

And that's why it's not surprising. After she lost her first election, she just rolled up her sleeves and ran again. And then eventually, I was delighted when she became speaker of the Minnesota House.

HUNT: Congresswoman, this, of course, is a situation where were learning, you know, this man had a target list, 45 people long, some members of the body in which you serve are learning that they may have been connected to it. I'd be interested to know if you found out that you may be connected to it. But even absent that, how this feels as someone who is trying to serve the public?

MCCOLLUM: You know, it's -- the amount of violence in our rhetoric today from the president to people I served with in Congress to people at the local level, just feeling that they can, you know, say the most vulgar, hateful things. And if they say it loud enough, then they want to debate.

We as elected officials, Democrats, Republicans, independents, school boards, city council members, people on planning commissions, president of the United States. We have to take this rhetoric and say it is -- has no responsibility to be used in a -- in a -- in a democracy. Democracy is about the freedom to exchange ideas without fear. And right now, acts like what happened in Minnesota this weekend instill fear in in even, even citizens feeling that they can come to town halls and express their views and their views and not feel threatened, intimidated, or even possibly at risk.

HUNT: Were you on the list? You know?

MCCOLLUM: I'm not commenting on the list. There isn't a less per se, from what I've gleaned from law enforcement. They're still combing through a lot of things, and I know some members have disclosed whether they're on lists or not on list.

But once you say if you're on a list and people start asking you about other people, and so I'm going to respect law enforcement continuing their investigation at this point.

HUNT: Okay. Fair enough. One of the things that's possible here in this case would be a federal death penalty. We were talking about a little earlier in the show with our Laura Coates.

Is this a situation where you think the death penalty might be appropriate?

MCCOLLUM: Well, in Minnesota, we do not have the death penalty. And I'm on record of supporting Minnesota state law. If prosecuted federal. And that is something that the jury would be considering, I would -- I would leave it up to the jury to make that decision.

HUNT: All right. Fair enough. As we go forward here, what do you hope to see from President Trump in particular as this continues to be investigated? And, you know, God forbid, if there are, you know, future politically related or motivated violence?

MCCOLLUM: I'd like to see some leadership and civility.

[16:30:00]

And that might be challenging for the president, given the way he doesn't seem to be able to leave the campaign style of his speaking where it belongs at the campaign. And even then, I thought that some of that was too extreme and too violent.

But right, right now, we need the president of the United States, a political person who put their, their, their life on the line by showing up to work and voting and representing their constituents was assassinated, and so was her husband. And two other people were so grateful that they're okay.

And the other two houses that were targeted by this, this extreme person, you know, we need leadership on this. And it would -- it would have been wonderful. He didn't have to praise Governor Walz, but he didn't have to basically insult him either. When he talked about the incident that happened here.

Governor Walz has a 85 percent, you know, plus, I think approval rating here in Minnesota very popular. And at this time, Minnesota was pleased to have Governor Walz out there making sure that we knew that law enforcement was doing everything that they could and trying to calm a terrible, tragic, heinous situation here.

So that -- that showed lack of respect for the state of Minnesota, for the president of the United States at a time like this to insult our governor.

HUNT: All right. Congresswoman Betty McCollum, I'm very grateful for your time today. Thank you so much for being with us.

MCCOLLUMN: Thank you.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, were going to have a live report from the Middle East with Benjamin Netanyahu's newest warning aimed directly at Iran's supreme leader. We'll look at how Iran plans to respond after a new wave of strikes by Israel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:36:21]

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

HUNT: Wow. That was the dramatic moment that Iran's state news channel was hit by an Israeli airstrike earlier today. There's no word on any casualties or injuries.

This video shows the Tehran headquarters on fire. That is just one of today's strikes. As Israel and Iran entered a fourth day of back-and- forth attacks. Israel's Air Force said that this evening, they struck two Iranian jets at an airport in Tehran that were intended to intercept Israeli aircraft.

CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is joining us now. She's at a hospital in Tel Aviv. This is the hospital where they send out ambulances when missiles go off.

Clarissa, what have you been seeing throughout this fourth day?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's pretty extraordinary, actually, Kasie. Here at the Ichilov hospital when this war or this phase of the war began, just a few days ago. Within seven hours. This hospital moved all its patients 600 of them from rooms in various wards down into a parking lot that had been full of cars and motorcycles. That parking lot is now a fully functional underground missile proof hospital. And they have an entire protocol around receiving patients when there are these ballistic missile attacks.

And these are different to the types of attacks that these doctors and nurses are experienced dealing with. They're not suicide bombings. They're not rockets.

They are hugely powerful weapons. They're seeing a lot of crush injuries, buildings pancaked, and essentially they stand in one area sort of behind a wall that is providing some protection and then begin to take in patients so that they can be treated as they pour in from some of the sites. And we are seeing now, Kasie, every single night, multiple sites being

hit, multiple civilian residential areas being hit, residential buildings being hit. Last night, eight people killed. The death toll total here in Israel, up to 24. Now of course in Iran it's in the hundreds.

And so, the expectation is that as the night goes on, we will likely see more missile barrages. Iran's news agency or one of its news agencies, I should say, has warned already that another operation of missiles and drones is underway. Although I will say that we haven't received any of the typical alerts that we usually do here to indicate that those missiles are underway.

And it's significant. The Israeli army today announced or the air force, I should say, announced that they believe they've taken out roughly 30 percent of Iran's missile launch pads.

So, the expectation, as with every evening in the last 3 or 4, is that it will be a busy evening. And the doctors and nurses here at this hospital will be ready to deal with whatever comes their way. Casey.

HUNT: All right. Clarissa Ward for us in Tel Aviv -- Clarissa, thanks very much for that.

Our panel still here. We're joined by CNN political director and our Washington bureau chief, David Chalian.

David, thanks so much for being here.

So, this, of course, entering its fourth day and we're -- we've learned over the weekend that Benjamin Netanyahu hasn't ruled out taking out Khamenei.

[16:40:02]

There's been this question about whether Donald Trump is willing to support him in that or not. It sounds like not for now, but one of the dynamics here, as we look to see what the American president is going to do, has been that his MAGA base is pretty divided about what to do about this. I want to play kind of a series of soundbites from some of President Trump's allies that kind of show you why this is not a clean situation for President Trump.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Look, I think it is very much in the interest of America to see regime change.

CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW: I can tell you right now, our MAGA base does not want a war at all whatsoever.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If diplomacy is not successful and we left with the option of force, I would urge President Trump to go all in. STEVE BANNON, HOST, WAR ROOM: They asked me for a quote and I said,

hey, the Israelis are Israeli first, as they should be. We need to always be America first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, MAGA versus the neocons. I mean, what's -- who's -- who's going to win out here?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: And this is why to your point, I think that we're not seeing sort of a clear direction yet from President Trump. I think he still is looking at a lot of options here of how much involvement, whether or not the Americans will join in some of the bunker busting missions that that clearly the Israelis are looking for help on.

But what I find so fascinating is that we are reminded, like we were in 2016 when Trump and Bernie Sanders were both running in different parties, that there's some weird alignment, right? I mean, you have you have Tucker Carlson out there clearly saying that Donald Trump is complicit in this war of Israel with Iran right now, while Donald Trump's aides are trying to portray him all of this administration as the peacemaker here.

And you have the likes of Bernie Sanders out there shouting today saying, do not allow America to get drawn into another war. And you see these weird alliances that leaves Donald Trump's politics on this a little scrambled.

C. TODD: Look, you know, its interesting here is that those that are pushing him to get involved with Iran were people that were never with him in '16. Those that don't want him to get involved are sort of the original folks, for what it's worth, I think because, you know, Trump's instinct in '15.

And whether he did it because he just wanted to attack the bushes or he did it because he really believed it. And I'm not going to swear on an oath. I know either way, it doesn't matter. He's come across as a critic of the Iraq War, as a critic of like, if you're going to go in and try to do regime change, you better have a plan B.

And look, I do know this, like one of the reasons why it was easy for him to fire Mike Waltz is Waltz, the first national security advisor, did talk him into the Houthis attack. It is deemed -- it was not successful. They pretended it was successful. They stopped it and they said, hey, we've succeeded. We don't have to do it anymore.

I do think Trump is instinctively not wanting to own this, because I think he knows if he owns it, he owns it, owns it. And just like this is our third president in a row where they all kind of agree on this -- Obama, Biden and Trump do not want to get bogged down in Middle East politics. They'd rather be pivoting.

The Middle East is not a national security priority to America the way it used to be, because of we don't even need the economic. I'm not saying it isn't viable, but there's -- all these presidents have been trying to pivot to Asia and the Middle East, sort of drags them back in.

So, I think, you know, well see what he does. But I think if you look at it, the initial base for him always was don't get involved in these.

B. TODD: Well, first off, President Trump has been very clear. He says Iran cannot have a bomb. He says they cannot have enrichment. None. Period. Enrichment of uranium.

He's -- he gave them 60 days, a very reasonable 60 days. And on day 61 Israel attacks. So, I think it's clearer than you say there. And also, you know, I look at a lot of surveys, a lot of polling about Republicans and where Republican voters are.

Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon are the ones out of step here. Republican voters defend Israel almost completely. They don't like Iran. They don't want to see Iran have a nuclear bomb.

They may not be ready to send the 101st Airborne to Iran to get bogged down in a war, but they're perfectly glad to see Iran's regime suffer here. They think they're a bad actor for the Middle East and for the rest of the world.

I mean, they refer to us as the Great Satan. That's not lost on Republicans nationwide.

HUNT: Sure. But I mean, President Trump did campaign repeatedly. And honestly, this is something I would hear from voters. They bring it up without me saying anything. We think Donald Trump's going to keep us out of World War III.

And what I hear from those MAGA, the MAGA wing is -- this is a risk. This is a risk of World War III.

C. TODD: It increases it. But the fact of the matter is, the minute you do something like this, you think you can control day one. As we learned in Iraq, you can't -- you don't know what day two or day three like. And I do think to Trump's credit, that's sort of the foreign policy advice he heeds the most.

ELROD: Yeah. Well, look, I am young enough to remember just a few months ago during the campaign when Donald Trump made it very clear and he told his voters this and his supporters this, that if he gets in office, if he wins the presidency, he will have this whole Middle East crisis solved within one or two days.

[16:45:03]

And here we are. And he is. He has failed to negotiate a strong deal. Bibi Netanyahu, to Chuck's point, does not seem to care who the president is. He's going to try to roll all over them and do whatever he wants to do, to try to make himself look like the strong man to the Israelis. And that's a problem that Trump's got to figure out. He's a --

HUNT: Very quick last word, Brad. B. TODD: Well, I think you have to -- the only choice is whether we

allow Iran to keep enriching uranium here. We can -- we can talk about, I don't think anybody's going to argue for a long-term war. That's the question.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, power of the people. What is next for the anti-Trump movement after a weekend of nationwide protests?

Plus, one of -- why one of the most recognizable labor leaders leaving her position at the DNC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:13]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm here for democracy. I'm here because I'm frightened of how we are traveling in this country, but my anger supersedes my fear because he wants me to be afraid. And I am, but I'm more angry. And when I'm angry, you better back up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Tens of thousands of anti-Trump protesters fanned out across the country this weekend in No Kings demonstrations opposing President Trump's policies. Some Democrats pointing to the protests as a good sign for their prospects of winning back power in the 2026 midterm elections. Others warning them not to get ahead of themselves.

Chuck Todd, this was really the first kind of showing that we had of the resistance. You know, Democratic Party in opposition to Trump after his second win. How do you -- like what did you see in the scale or lack of scale of these protests that tells you anything about where the country is?

C. TODD: Look, I do think if you think about the run up to the protests, right. The seven days before the protest, if you were a protest organizer, you couldn't have asked for a better set of news cycles, right? You had the Alex Padilla incident with Kristi Noem, which sort of brought more attention. You had the showdown between Newsom and Trump, right? So you've had this sort of so it and I think --

HUNT: You're building.

C. TODD: Correct. So, you had real energy. The military parade was offensive to some people. And that served as a motivator. So, I sort of -- I expected it to be a healthy turnout given the circumstances.

I'd be careful measuring, you know, and saying automatically because I do think there is one distinction this cycle as we did in 2018, Democratic Partys brand is still in the toilet, 2017 and 2018. It was actually still even or even slightly ahead of the Republican brand. We are not in that situation. So while the energy is certainly on the anti-Trump side of things, and

I still wouldn't bet against Democrats winning the House, I'd like -- I'm not -- until they fix their brand issues, I'm not fully, fully ready to say, oh, this is definitely --

B. TODD: Swing voters don't protest either.

C. TODD: Right. And we know --

B. TODD: That's either side.

C. TODD: Fair enough.

B. TODD: That's why they're swing voters.

C. TODD: Yes.

B. TODD: That's why they swing.

CHALIAN: But -- and midterms are at times largely dependent. I mean, elections are dependent on swing voters but are largely dependent also on revving up the base. And we've seen in the special elections, some things are behaving --

C. TODD: We know this thing, special election.

CHALIAN: Special elections -- you know, Democrats have overperformed and won in the vast majority of them. That's similar to what we saw in '17 and '18. Theres no doubt that Democrats have work to do on the brand.

I mean, that's just a true statement. It still may be, though. And this is why I think you're saying you don't bet against it, that the structure is such that the response to the incumbent is still where the energy is in American politics come next.

HUNT: Well, and, Adrienne Elrod, speaking of the brand, one of the things that the Democratic Party is struggling with is who they are right now, right? I mean, even if you look at sort of its micro compared to this big picture stuff we're talking about. But Randi Weingarten leaving the DNC, she's a major labor leader.

It showcases divisions even at a time when, you know, it should be relatively easy to be united against Trump, if you're the Democratic Party. What's going on?

ELROD: Yeah. Look, I think two things can be true at once. I think, number one, it did take Democrats or it took people who were opposed to Trump, not just Democrats, but anyone opposed to Trump a while to get the marches going again. You'll remember, of course, the women's march took place right around the inauguration in 2017.

It took a while for this to get going, but now it is going, and I think it happened a little bit more organically this time. In a way that is good, because I think it took people a while to kind of figure out how can we actually respond? How do we even deal with the Trump 2.0 where he got more votes this time around than he did in 2016, and now people are coming together organically. The No Kings -- under the No Kings umbrella.

Now back to party politics. In case this is a little bit more complicated. You know, look, we have not been in a situation in the Democratic Party really, since Dukakis lost in 1990 or 1988, where we don't have an heir apparent either someone who we know is going to be likely the Democratic nominee or someone who is most recently the Democratic president who sort of taking on that mantle. Obviously, President Biden is taking a little bit of a step back.

The Obamas, the Clintons are taking a little bit of a step back. They're still very active, to be clear. But we don't have that one person out there who's sort of the referee telling people where to go, channeling the energy around the party. You know, ken martin being the chair of the DNC, he's been active in politics for a while, but this is a new role for him.

So, I just hope my friends over the DNC will -- party first, and we probably need to stop some of this internal squabbling. It's not helping us.

B. TODD: You know, I'd be a lot more scared if the Democrats were working with Donald Trump on immigration than I am that they're having marches. That's a way for them to fix their brand. But I'm a little bit more worried about it for the country, though.

This weekend I thought the timing of the marches on the birthday of the army, that really bugs me, because next year, the whole country has to celebrate its birthday.

[16:55:06]

And we need to be able to do that together. And Democrats need to be able to clap with Trump even if they can't clap for him. So that's a little thing I take away from the weekend worried about.

HUNT: All right. Coming up, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. That's going to do it for us here in THE ARENA. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks to our panel for being here as well.

Phil Mattingly is standing by for "THE LEAD".

And, Phil, happy belated Father's Day to you.