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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Sources: Trump Urging His Team To Let Epstein Story Die; Waltz Grilled On Signalgate During Confirmation Hearing; Now: Dems Voting In Arizona Special Election Primary. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 15, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:02]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Why not all three?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Sounds amazing.
SANCHEZ: They all sound good. You can try these and hundreds of other tasty treats, most of them on a stick. When the Iowa state fair opens on August 7th.
KEILAR: I once covered a story in Iowa, and there was a crock pot, and I wasn't sure what it was full of for my corn. It was butter, just a melted crock pot of butter.
SANCHEZ: We should pitch going back to Iowa for this.
KEILAR: Let's do it. Serious investigation.
SANCHEZ: "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" hits the road. Stay tuned. We'll find out if they approve it.
"THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: It's the messaging versus the madness.
Can Donald Trump convince everyone to just move on from Jeffrey Epstein?
Let's head into THE ARENA.
President Trump defends Pam Bondi's handling of the Epstein files as MAGA starts to fall in line. We've got a new CNN poll on just how Americans are feeling about this case.
Plus, Michael Waltz faces tough questions on Capitol Hill as Signalgate weighs over his confirmation to be U.N. ambassador.
And then, Democrats turn their attention to a special election in Arizona, as the party looks to see which direction voters want them to go.
David Axelrod and Van Jones are both here with us next. (MUSIC)
HUNT: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday.
Right now, President Trump really, really, really, really, really wants you to move on from Jeffrey Epstein. Yes, that Jeffrey Epstein, the one that President Trump's MAGA base is convinced that the government has information about, that they are withholding from the public.
So can President Trump convince Americans to move on from the conspiracy he himself used and stoked to retake the White House.
So, we have a new CNN poll that shows just how tough that will be just 3 percent of Americans, 3 percent, are satisfied with the amount of information that's been released about the Epstein case. Half of Americans are dissatisfied. Just 39 percent say that either it doesn't matter or they haven't heard enough to say. Either way.
Now, Democrats and independents are most likely to say that they're unhappy about this, but even 40 percent of Republicans say they really want to know more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey. They were made up by Obama. They were made up by the Biden from -- you know, we -- and we went through years of that with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So just this afternoon, President Trump defended his administrations handling of the so-called Epstein files. You heard him there. Blame everyone else for creating them.
Today, Trump also called on Attorney General Pam Bondi to release whatever she thinks is, quote, credible. Several people familiar with the presidents thinking tell CNN that he's privately urging his team to let the story die.
Now, it seems that some in the MAGA universe are in fact changing their tune.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DINESH D'SOUZA, HOST, DINESH D'SOUZA PODCAST: Even though there are unanswered questions about Epstein, it is, in fact, time to move on.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Now, as conservative influencers were eating their own about Epstein, the president was stealing the show.
CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW: I'm done talking about Epstein for the time being. I'm going to trust my friends in the administration. I'm going to trust my friends in the government. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: You heard it here first, folks. Charlie Kirk says, I'm going to trust my friends in the government.
That is not a phrase I ever imagined could win over those who see the Epstein case as the conspiracy that reaches the highest levels of our government. So that brings us back to the very first question of whether Donald Trump can get Americans of all political persuasions to move on from this story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): A lot of people in MAGA, they -- they really want to know more information about the people that were involved with Jeffrey Epstein.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): This is a question of trust. We need to release the Epstein files so we can restore government of the people, by the people and for the people.
REP. ELI CRANE (R-AZ): I want to see more transparency like a lot of other members and a lot of other Americans.
CANDACE OWENS, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I feel like Trump thinks his base is stupid. Or again, because I don't think he's pressing send on these messages. The people around him certainly think that Trump is stupid.
REP. HANK JOHNSON (D-GA): Congressman Hank Johnson coming to give you some more ear candy or perhaps an ear ache.
You've been telling us you'll release the file, but where are they?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Where are we? I mean, what is even happening?
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: OK.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Striking a note -- striking a note of bipartisanship.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: Our panel is going to discuss this further in just a moment. And Scott Jennings is also here, in addition to Van Jones and David Axelrod.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Who thought Guam was going to tip over if too many military were on it.
[16:05:03]
So, we may not want to take his songs as seriously as --
HUNT: Kristen Soltis Anderson will be here as well.
But let's start with Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, I'm so sorry. This story is totally jumped the shark, but we heard from the president earlier. Obviously, he wanted to say that Comey created the files and Biden created the files. And you know, okay.
But he's trying to get it to go away. Is that your latest reporting? Walk us through what you know.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. He is trying to let it go away, but it's not going away. It's being perpetuated everywhere he looks. And the question is, will it die down? And there are a lot of these very vocal, very high profile MAGA loyalists who say it's not going to because they're not going to let it. And what you saw from them today was latching on to one very small part of what Donald Trump said.
He said that Bondi had done a great job, but then he said she should release whatever it is that she thinks should be released. That is what you are now seeing the MAGA following, really holding on to this idea that now this is putting this back on the attorney general and the attorney general herself was asked about this. She ignored the first round of questions from our Paula Reid. But then after that said she was unaware of his most recent statements.
Here's how he kind of danced around the Epstein files earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, your daughter in law said that there should be transparency in the Epstein case. Do you agree with her, sir?
TRUMP: The attorney general has handled that very well. She is. She's really done a very good job. And I think that when you look at it, you'll understand that.
I would like to see that also. But I think the attorney general, the credibility is very important. And you want credible evidence for something like that. And I think the attorney general has handled it very well.
REPORTER: Did she tell you at all that your name appeared in the -- in the file?
TRUMP: She's -- she's given us just a very quick briefing. And in terms of the credibility of the different things that they've seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: It was interesting there to hear that last question. Did Pam Bondi brief you that your name had come up in the files at all? President Trump said, no, I've only gotten a quick briefing. And then that's actually where he turned and started saying these files were made up by Comey and Biden and Obama and whoever else was in that list. I know you played that earlier. So right now, you're kind of looking at a crossroads for a number of these people.
We just saw Benny Johnson, for example, a big conservative influencer, putting out an interview with Mike Johnson, the speaker of the House, in which he selectively edits the written quote to make it look as though Johnson is all in for releasing anything from the investigation. But Johnson does go a little further than everyone in the White House by saying, essentially, that everything should be put out, that the people should decide.
So, this is not going away right now. It's actually kind of getting more and more spun up, and it looks as though there's going to be more divides and more pushback from Republicans and Democrats, of course, as we've seen. But the Republicans are really what make this so interesting, because they're kind of as someone I believe said, eating their own at this point.
HUNT: All right. Kristen Holmes, interesting day as ever at the White House. Thank you very much for that reporting.
Our panel is here.
Scott Jennings, clearly, the president wants to talk about anything other than this at this point, because -- I mean, that question that he took at the White House, somebody saying like, hey, did she figure out that you're in the files? Right? This has been the conspiracy theory all along, is that rich and powerful people are protecting themselves at the expense of, you know, victims, right? And President Trump stoked it for himself.
And, like, I don't know -- I don't know where you guys are, but, like, sometimes things break through, right? There's a lot we sit and talk about at this table that a lot of people are not paying that close of attention to. This one is --
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Blasphemy.
HUNT: This one is not -- not in that category. Everybody's talking about it.
JONES: I want to hear what you have to say.
AXELROD: Yes, I yield to Scott.
JONES: I yield to my good friend Scott Jennings.
JENNINGS: In this disingenuousness is what you need to know about the Democrats right now. The party's in the ditch.
JONES: It's our fault.
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Kids, if you're interested in politics, watch this pivot. (LAUGHTER)
JENNINGS: You got Democrats saying, we must release the file. Joe Biden had the files for four years, not a single Democrat cared if Donald Trump --
HUNT: He didn't campaign on releasing the files.
JENNINGS: And if Donald Trump --
HUNT: Donald Trump did.
JENNINGS: But these Democrats are acting like it's a national emergency, and they did nothing about it. If Donald Trump were in there, don't you think Joe Biden would have put -- they had law enforcement chasing him?
HUNT: I think we can all acknowledge Democrats are taking advantage of the situation, the political way. I mean, that does not seem like a contested thing. It's that the issue is that --
JENNINGS: Look, people, people legitimately have questions.
[16:10:00]
JONES: Yes.
JENNINGS: Powerful people did do terrible things. I'm sure there are things in the files that cannot be released because of this -- well, would you want to have victims names or child pornographic?
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Look, all that sort of stuff -- but I'm really -- I'm serious now, they said.
JENNINGS: You're a lawyer, by the way. Some of this stuff --
JONES: Look, I don't want all the all the bad stuff released, but I am saying this. Who -- who's lying here? They said they had the stuff. They had him dead to rights.
Donald Trump built up this huge pile of accusations, and now he's like David Copperfield, just trying to make them all disappear. Why? Why wont they just release the stuff that is not going to hurt children but might help America?
JENNINGS: Well, it sounds like that's what the president is saying. If you have things you can release, release it and then explain why you can't release the rest. Thats a legitimate -- that's a legitimate point of view.
AXELROD: There is -- there is this element of being, I think, Shakespeare called it being hoisted from your own petard. I mean, this is a problem of --
JENNINGS: I never wear petards.
AXELROD: Right.
JENNINGS: I stopped wearing them long ago. You know that. Let's talk about that.
AXELROD: Well, we're going to release that file, too.
But -- does anybody in this country actually believe that Pam Bondi is some sort of free agent and that she decided having -- having come from that part of the Republican Party, having said earlier in the administration that she had all these files on her desk, having said all building all of this anticipation that she decided, "You know what, I just want to stick my finger in the eye of the MAGA movement"? No.
The fact of the matter is, she responds to the president. If the president wanted these files released, you better believe they'd be released. And they're not being released. Why? I don't know.
We know he was friendly with Jeffrey Epstein. He praised him. He joked about the fact that he loved beautiful women, especially the young ones. This is what Donald Trump said.
So, is it conceivable that his name might turn up in those files? I think that's far from a crazy idea.
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is a very powerful example of the challenge that you face when your message is very anti-establishment, in a moment when the electorate is very established -- anti-establishment, and suddenly, you're kind of the establishment.
And I think right now the issue that Republicans are going to face is that it's hard to make this go away in the short run, because every time Donald Trump says something about it -- have you ever heard of the Streisand effect?
The idea that if you want to make something go away by calling more -- like by saying you want it to go away, you call more attention to it. This past week has been an exercise in watching the Streisand effect in full form, and I think it's hard to make it go away through action.
HUNT: Well, and let's watch Pam Bondi try to make it go away today, because -- well, just watch the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Nothing about Epstein.
I'm not going to talk about Epstein. I'm going to be here for as long as the president wants me here. And I believe he's made that crystal clear.
No, I'm not going to talk about personnel matters. No.
I'm not going to discuss personnel matters. I think we all are committed to working together now to make America safe again.
Only on topic, guys.
Our memo speaks for itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Look, I mean, the reason that they're after is because she's the main person on the on the desk.
But here's the thing I thought was important today. Donald Trump said I was only given a brief briefing on this.
That strikes me as bizarre. His base cares about this passionately. He's talked about it a million times, but for some reason, Pam Bondi is only -- according to Donald Trump, who never lies, Pam Bondi is only talked to him about it briefly.
Why? Why is that?
JENNINGS: Well, he's been a little busy fomenting world peace and a turnaround of the American economy, Van.
JONES: But do you find -- do you find -- do you find it credible?
AXELROD: He should spend more time on that. We're not there yet, but go ahead.
JONES: Yeah, but honestly, do you find it credible that Donald Trump has only gotten a little teeny tiny little briefing? Hardly any information at all about Jeffrey Epstein?
JENNINGS: I'm sure he's gotten some information. I don't know how much he's gotten. But again, it's -- is it not conceivable to you that this is just a simple case of promising something? You get there. You realize it's not what you thought it was, and now you just can't deliver on it.
JONES: Well, just -- but why --
JENNINGS: Is that -- is that not conceivable that they just don't have what they thought they had?
AXELROD: Well, it was more conceivable if she hadn't said that she had all this material.
JENNINGS: She was reviewing it. Yeah.
AXELROD: Yes, but she -- she more than intimated that there was a lot there and that she was going to make it all public. And I think she intended to make it all public until something happened. And I think what happened was the president of the United States said, we're not doing that.
JENNINGS: And I will say on our air, I've heard two lawyers, one Friday night, Arthur Aidala, Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyer, and last night, Doug Schoen, who was Epstein's lawyer. Both say out loud they do not believe this man committed suicide.
So, if they, lawyers, who were in the know have questions like this, it's legitimate for the American people to have questions. I mean --
HUNT: That's what we're saying.
AXELROD: You're switching arguments here.
HUNT: I was going to say, like, you're just saying that it's fine that the president hasn't put anything out, that that makes total sense.
[16:15:03]
But now you're saying, well, actually --
JENNINGS: No.
HUNT: -- it's credible that it's all wrong --
JENNINGS: No, it's possible to have questions, but it's possible also that you can have questions and not be satisfied by what's happened so far. I get the polling. I understand.
JONES: Look, I think it's remarkable the cowing now of people -- you're talking about the people who are still on the pogo stick, still raising it. There are people who are starting to back off, though.
There are people -- I mean, there are people who said they cared about the women who were abused, who said they cared about children being mistreated, who said they cared about the abuse of power, who are going to go quiet on this because what they really care about, apparently is not getting smashed to bits by Donald Trump.
And this should be very worrying. I think for the honest people who are the majority of people on the conservative side, that you now have a president of United States who, if he says, I am disappearing all of your concerns about children being abused, there are people who will say, yes, sir.
AXELROD: Well, there's been reporting that he spent the weekend calling Charlie Kirk and other conservative influencers and --
JONES: Beating them up.
AXELROD: -- telling them to chill out on this thing.
HUNT: Well, and to that point, David, Charlie Kirk -- and we played this yesterday. So Charlie Kirk yesterday had basically said, I'm moving on from this because there are these reports over the weekend, the president is calling people like Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk is on the radio and he says, okay, we're going to try to move on from this. Well, there was apparently some backlash to that, or at least this reaction that he had today would suggest that there was some backlash, because here was more of Charlie Kirk from today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRK: This is what I was saying. Ball is in your court, guys. You are my friends, we got your attention overwhelmingly. Fix it.
That is what I was saying. I want to make an addendum to what was said yesterday is we're going to keep on talking about it. But when you have friends, don't you give your friends some opportunity to be able to get it right, to fix it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, that seems to underscore --
AXELROD: Not what he was saying, but it speaks to what Kristen was saying before, which is these guys are caught between a rock and a hard place. The movement is demanding more information, but they are affiliated now with the government in the ways that they are. And so, they are now trying to walk that very, very difficult path between satisfying those who are demanding more information and hewing to the line the president has laid down here, whether you can navigate that remains --
SOLTIS ANDERSON: Donald Trump has been pretty deft at navigating, getting his base to unify around things ideologically or policy wise that might be uncomfortable or might not be things that Republicans are all actually in alignment about.
But you know what? I trust Trump. I want Trump to govern. Well, I'm just going to vote for this. I'm going to go with this.
But this is different because it's not an ideological or policy thing. And so, I wonder to what extent his powers of unifying are going to be curbed by that.
HUNT: It seems like one of the first significant challenges to it, as you point out.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, it's just one primary race to fill a safe Democratic seat in Arizona. But for the Democratic Party, it's yet another test of how they move forward.
Plus, months after Signal-gate, remember that, Mike Waltz facing tough questions on Capitol Hill as the president's former national security advisor tries to get confirmed to be U.N. ambassador.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE WALTZ, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N. NOMINEE: Just the use of Signal --
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Their information on Signal.
WALTZ: The use of -- no, excuse me. The use of Signal is not only -- as an encrypted app, is not only authorized. It was recommended.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:59]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTZ: The use of signal was not only -- not only authorized, it's still authorized and highly recommended.
COONS: Would you recommend the use of signal for classified information to be shared between folks who have access to --
WALTZ: Again, we follow the recommendation -- almost the demand to use end to end encryption. But there was no classified information shared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump's pick for United Nations Ambassador Mike Waltz, defending his now infamous use of the Signal messaging app to discuss a March military operation with the defense secretary and other cabinet officials amid questioning from Democrats during his nomination hearing today. That marked the first time that Waltz publicly faced lawmakers since he was ousted from his role as Trump's national security advisor.
Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that, of course, heard that testimony today.
Senator, thanks very much for being here. It's great to have you.
So back in March, you had called for the resignations of both Mike Waltz and the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, over Signal-gate. Based on what you heard today, is there any world where you could support him at the U.N.?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): The short answer, Kasie, is no. I will not support his nomination., both for that reason, but many of the reasons that I articulated in today's hearing.
But on Signal-gate, you know, Mike Waltz's response was totally inadequate, to suggest that anybody had authorized the use of signal for classified information is just wrong. And so, his story line was not that it was okay for classified information, but that information regarding the operational details of a U.S. military strike on Yemen was not classified. That was his sort of alibi.
The reality is, anybody in this world knows that those kind of operational details are classified for the good and safety of our pilots and the men and women in our military.
[16:25:03]
HUNT: Do you think any Democrats will be willing to support Waltz? It seems like some of your colleagues may be open to it.
VAN HOLLEN: I really can't speculate. I have not had a chance to talk to many of them. But, you know, he was also the guy at the White House in charge of the National Security Council when Elon Musk took a chainsaw to AID and eliminated many important programs to our national security, to our foreign policy, China and other adversaries have quickly tried to fill the void left by that American vacuum and the American retreat.
So there -- there are lots of concerns I have with mike waltz, and I will not be supporting his nomination to be our ambassador to the United Nations.
HUNT: Sir, let me switch gears. I want to ask you about the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine. We, of course, have seen a plan from the Trump administration to send weapons -- defense systems, weapons defense systems via NATO and other things along those lines.
Do you think Trump should get credit for that?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I'm glad that President Trump is finally getting it right, but he's done a lot of damage of getting to the right answer very, very late. After all, this was the president who threw the Ukrainians under the bus when he essentially said that he was going to chum up with Putin and not support U.S. assistance to Ukraine. He had that meeting at the White House, where he essentially insulted President Zelenskyy.
So, in the meantime, of course, Putin has been playing Donald Trump like a fiddle very skillfully. So I'm glad Donald Trump seems to have finally woken up to the fact that he's being played by Vladimir Putin, and now will be providing these weapons systems to the Ukrainian people via our NATO allies.
HUNT: We also heard from the president. I want to play this briefly for you. He said -- he mentioned Melania Trump, his wife, in explaining his interactions with Vladimir Putin. I thought it was an interesting way to think about it. Let's watch it and we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My conversations with him are always very pleasant. I say, isn't that very lovely conversation? And then the missiles go off that night. I go home. I tell the first lady, you know, I spoke to Vladimir today. We had a wonderful conversation. She said, oh, really? Another city was just hit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Do you think Melania Trump is the reason Donald Trump is changing his tune on some of this?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I don't know. But whatever the cause was, I welcome it because, you know, one of, you know, Donald Trump's great weaknesses is he calls himself the great negotiator. But foreign officials and foreign leaders very quickly learn what the playbook is. And that is to, you know, stroke the ego of Donald Trump. We recently had Prime Minister Netanyahu here saying he was going to give Donald Trump a -- recommend him for the Nobel Peace Prize. Trump, not realizing that recommendation from Prime Minister Netanyahu, probably would not be helpful in that regard.
But the point is that Donald Trump, you know, essentially likes to have his ego stroked, and he thinks that he can sort of personally change the course of another leader, even when that leader is set in their ways, like Vladimir Putin. And so, again, whatever caused Donald Trump to realize that he would essentially being played the fool by Vladimir Putin, I'm glad he finally seems to have woken up.
Let's see. It's always one day at a time.
HUNT: All right. Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you very much for your time today, sir. I really appreciate it.
VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next year, the Pentagon awards a lucrative deal to Elon Musk for his Grok artificial intelligence, just days after the chatbot shared antisemitism and conspiracy theories.
Plus, Andrew Cuomo, apparently not going anywhere after a definitive loss in the Democratic primary. He says he's running for New York mayor from a third party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think he should stay. I think he has a shot.
REPORTER: Would you prefer him over --
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say, you know, I'm a Republican. He's a Democrat or an independent. No, I think Andrew would have a good shot of winning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:34:10]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEJA FOXX, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: My name is Deja Foxx. I'm 25 years old and I'm running for Congress.
We're here at the hotties for New York fashion week party.
There is something after Donald Trump.
Young, progressive disrupters are winners.
We gave people a healthy primary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What thought makes the Democratic Party stronger at the end of the day? FOXX: Yeah, that's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was 25-year-old activist and influencer Deja Foxx, one of the candidates in today's Democratic primary to fill a vacant Arizona House seat, which is, of course, the next test of who Democratic voters want to see lead their party.
Fox, who boasts nearly 400,000 followers on TikTok, is going up against the daughter of the late Congressman Raul Grijalva, who previously represented this district. The Arizona primary coming on the heels of Zohran Mamdani's buzzy win in the New York City mayoral primary last night.
[16:35:01]
Mamdani's former primary challenger, the former governor Andrew Cuomo, now reentering the race as a third party candidate, hoping for a comeback.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW CUOMO, NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE; Hello, I'm Andrew Cuomo and unless you've been living under a rock, you probably know that the Democratic primary did not go the way I had hoped. The fight to save our city isn't over. Only 13 percent of New Yorkers voted in the June primary. The general election is in November, and I am in it to win it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Okay, our panel is back.
And, Van Jones, I think you saw the generational contrast right there, in those two sets of videos.
JONES: Yes.
HUNT: Because one of them was for the, you know, dimensions of this screen that we are all on right now. And the other one.
JONES: Is for right here, right here, right here.
Look, Deja Foxx is a phenomenon. She has completely upended politics in Arizona. She's running against a legacy that's very proud for progressives. Grijalva -- Grijalva was loved by everybody. His daughter is a strong candidate, but she is -- she's on fire.
And I got a chance to talk with her about how she's running this campaign. And they're doing it on Discord. What she says like there's -- there's Discord in the country. She says, no, we're on discord. And she's built a community on this app that is hard to stop.
And now she has raised as much money as the establishment candidate by herself, and is 99 percent small donors. This is the new wave in politics. She's next, and she's going to be hard to stop.
AXELROD: She would be the first to win on Discord. Thats because, well, look, I went and I looked at some of her video and I mean, she's very appealing. And I think the thing we -- I mean, I'm not predicting -- I'm not as carried away as you are about this.
HUNT: But Van is all in.
JONES: I'm all in. I'm all in.
JENNINGS: How does it feel to be on the receiving end of one of his, like, little barbs? Usually me. How does that feel? I know it's terrible.
JONES: But I'm feeling. But Deja makes me happy, so I don't mind.
AXELROD: Boys, can I finish my point?
But I think it's really important. This isn't just about how you communicate. There is a real sense of alienation among young people with the politics of this moment, and with the way the system has worked throughout most of their aware lifetime. We live in a time in which younger people are not looking forward to and not experiencing this thing that past generations have, where they can anticipate doing better than their parents have.
You know, they're struggling. Theres this cost of living issue is hitting them harder than anyone. And all of this is translating into a desire for some real fundamental change.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: But I do wonder, in this Democratic primary, how much daylight there is between the candidates on those sorts of issues versus on the medium. And here, I mean, it is -- I believe it's about the ninth anniversary of Pokemon go to the polls. We, the era of cringe is dead. You cannot do like the contrast between -- the clips you showed of Deja Foxx and the clips of Andrew Cuomo are so stark.
And it is -- there is just it is.
JONES: Painfully stark.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: There was -- they are not the same. And it is hard to train someone on the old way of doing things, how to be authentic, and like be authentic is a contradiction in and of itself.
So I am -- I'm very bullish on kind of a populist, anti-establishment message with that kind of new media savvy.
AXELROD: First of all, thank you. I didn't even know about the Pokemon on anniversary. So that's how --
SOLTIS ANDERSON: I know, mark your calendar.
HUNT: Let me tell you, Pokemon is back with the kids and I know nothing about --
AXELROD: I don't think it's just young people.
I mean, I think, you know, in part, partly, you know, let me say it for you. But the Biden experience has sort of turbocharged this. I think that there are a lot of people in this country who are thinking, you know what? Let's just move all of those. Yes. Let's just get a new generation of leadership in here.
JENNINGS: Real politic. I was reading an analysis of the electorate in this district by some friends over at decision desk. They were looking at it compared to Mamdani, and he had a high turnout among young people.
AXELROD: Yes, and that's not been true in the --
JENNINGS: They were modeling out this district with a much older electorate. And so, I guess one of the, you know, tactical questions here is will the Discord and the way she's running the race work in a place where, you know, fundamentally older people are going to --
AXELROD: And also, there was a stark -- go ahead.
JENNINGS: It might. I don't know yet.
JONES: But look, I mean, that was why people were predicting that Cuomo -- Cuomo was going to win in New York. And there's something happening. I saw something in New York on the streets of New York on election day. I've never seen before in my life.
It was 102 degrees when Cuomo and Mamdani went at it, and I saw young people walking down the street tapping on windows, saying, have you voted yet?
[16:40:05]
Are you going to vote for Mamdani? There's a youth quake potential --
AXELROD: Yeah.
JONES: -- that upsets all this map.
AXELROD: That youth quake showed up in the early voting in New York, where 25 percent of the voters had never voted in a Democratic primary before, and most of them were young. So, we haven't seen that kind of Signal here. So I don't know what that means. But I do know this, Mamdani focused like a laser on affordability, and there was a huge contrast between him and his candidate.
This is a race where on the policy of Grijalva and Foxx are very much attuned.
JONES: The one thing that I think Deja Foxx has is her own personal story. She's not a legacy. She, you know, she grew up half homeless. She had a rough way to go. And so she's -- the storytelling that she can do really resonates. And that may cut through. We'll see.
HUNT: So, I think for a lot of people, when you say she's not a legacy, they'll think of her last name and think, well, she's got to be a legacy. Why do you say that she's not? Can you just explain it for our viewers who don't know?
JONES: Deja Foxx doesn't --
HUNT: Oh, you're talking about Deja Foxx?
JONES: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
HUNT: I thought you meant because --
JONES: Oh, yeah.
HUNT: Grijalva question -- I mean, this is this is a piece of it for me, right? Like, yes, she's young, right. But she has. And she has a last name that for older voters who are used to voting in this district, right, are going to see are going to recognize Grijalva.
AXELROD: She's 54. I mean.
HUNT: Right, but -- but it seems like it may be not what voters want right now. Right? Someone who is --
JONES: I think you're right. I think --
HUNT: -- any way inheriting a seat.
JONES: A Cuomo or Grijalva.
HUNT: I mean, look, here's Cuomo, right? And this is the other thing, right? Cuomo had all this baggage. "The New York Post" yesterday, just go away, right?
JENNINGS: Let me make a recommendation to Cuomo. I would -- if I were doing his videos, I would just go ahead and set them to 1.5x, because his voice sounds like melted ice cream. I mean, the -- when I listen to that come out of his, just speed it up a little. For God's sakes. Yes. I mean, honestly.
AXELROD: This is like a panel of media producers. But I will say this when the core of his problem is that when he says the fight to save New York goes on, I think there's a broad suspicion that this is a fight to save Andrew Cuomo's career. And that's what's motivating him. And he's not persuaded people in New York that his passion is to be mayor of New York. His passion is Andrew Cuomo, and he wants his way back into politics. Whereas Mamdani seems like a guy who's genuinely motivated by the issues he's talking about.
HUNT: Yeah, we saw Mamdani actually talk about Cuomo's independent bid. This was yesterday, but he weighed in, and honestly sounded a little bit like David Axelrod, longtime political consultant, sitting here. But let's watch what Mamdani had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NYC MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I think he's struggling to come to terms with what Tuesday meant. We spent an entire campaign being told that it was inevitable for Andrew Cuomo to become the next mayor. And he believed that himself.
And what we saw was New Yorkers' hunger for a new kind of politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, it does seem like there's a sense that people are just over it. They're over how we've been doing politics.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: But remember, this also isn't -- you know, we're talking a lot about folks who are really media savvy, and they're using all these new tools. But I also keep thinking about somebody like Bernie Sanders, right, who he is not going to be standing on a red carpet with the little microphone. He's not setting up a discord, but he also has that authenticity and that genuineness that you believe -- he believes what he's saying, that that's just hard to fake.
AXELROD: He's so old and he's been saying it for so long that its new. I mean --
JONES: Like bellbottom.
AXELROD: I agree with you. Authenticity, I used to say about presidential races, authenticity was the coin of the realm, and some of my Democratic friends would harrumph and say, what about Donald Trump?
Nobody ever says about Donald Trump, gee, I wish he'd speak his mind. That's never an issue. Authenticity is the coin of the realm, and now it's drifted into politics at other levels because of the change of media and because I think people are very, very concerned about the status quo.
JONES: I think -- I think you're right. But this, this youthquake is real. Theres a generation gap in this party that's bigger than any other gap, and they are coming. And I'm going to tell you, I'm glad they're going to the ballot box and out into the streets. But there's disaffection, these young people, and they are grabbing the tools available to them. And you're going to see something extraordinary. Deja is like my favorite candy growing up, its either now or later.
HUNT: All right. Well, I'm going to call you tomorrow.
AXELROD: There must be a deja vu joke here.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: There must be.
All right. Up next here, the Pentagon goes all in on A.I., awarding hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts to Elon Musk and others. Even as A.I. chatbots struggle with antisemitism, misogyny and racism.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:49:18]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: Grok 4 is smarter than almost all graduate students in all disciplines simultaneously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The Pentagon has awarded Elon Musk's artificial intelligence company a contract worth up to $200 million. That is despite Grok's antisemitic meltdown last week. The company did apologize for that, but CNN tested Grok's capabilities after they launched the new version. And while it provided an antisemitic response to one of our questions last week, grok simply refused to answer the same question when it was asked on Sunday.
Our panel is back here.
[16:50:01]
Van Jones, you as a someone from California in particular, have a pretty deep understanding of the web of people, the depths of their connections. Elon Musk, others in this world. There might be viewers out there who'd be surprised that after Elon Musk and Donald Trump had a massive falling out, that his company would receive a contract like this? I'd be surprised if you're surprised.
JONES: Not surprised at all. First of all, I do think that Grok has been trained in a way that's very bad. I just want to be very clear.
Theres this idea that Grok was sort of fact checking, Elon. And so, Elon says, well, you know, fix Grok. And they basically turned it into what it now calls itself tech Hitler. Like when a, when an A.I. is telling you I am tech Hitler. That's not great.
And so, like you probably don't want that.
HUNT: Like, what universe are we even living?
JONES: I mean, I mean, like, I'm not making this stuff up. Guys, like Google it, home folks. So --
AXELROD: But no Grok it.
JONES: No, no, no Grok it. Don't Grok it. Don't grok it.
But why isn't Elon thought a three strikes and you're out, because there's a whole network of Silicon Valley folks that includes Peter Thiel, that includes David Sax, that includes Elon Musk, that includes the folks at Andreessen Horowitz.
And they all basically are on the same team with each other. And so you can't throw out Grok without upsetting a little bit of the balance there. And part of what I think has not been -- look at that, that black hat. There's black hat MAGA and there's red hat MAGA, and they're not the same thing.
Red hat MAGA is a bunch of working class folks, bottom up. I don't agree with them on that much, but they are trying to make America "America". Black hat MAGA is top down. Black hat MAGA are a bunch of techno would-be tyrants who have a top down agenda and they're all together.
So, the irony is, MAGA is supposed to be a movement against the elites, and they've opened the door for the biggest elites, including Elon and Peter, to get in there and do stuff that most Americans don't even understand is very, very dangerous.
SOLTIS ANDERSON: But there is an argument, though, that technology can be a way to push back against the elites. I mean, look at the late, the last decade and a half of our politics, the fact that we have had techno technological change that has enabled the average person to organize, to speak out in ways that they didn't before, with a lot of consequences, some good, some not so good.
But I don't think there has to be -- I don't think it has to be the idea that technology inherently means favoring.
JONES: I agree, but I'm making a distinction between technology and technologists and the technologists in Silicon Valley because the Biden administration was so tough on Silicon Valley and I think unfairly tough on our state. You push a lot of technologists to the right, and they are now cooperating and doing things that I think are dangerous.
Grok should not -- they should unplug Grok and throw it in the ocean. It should not be getting a $200 million contract.
AXELROD: Well, you know, I mean, I agree with you completely. One of my I mean, technology has all kinds of great applications and democratizing applications. I experienced that in it when it was all on its --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: Oh, yeah. You guys did that.
HUNT: Change in 2008.
JONES: Obama 2008. You know a little bit about that.
AXELROD: But there is a danger that technology outstrips our ability to get our arms around the implications of all of it. And there's a danger that technology can be misused, misprogrammed. Theres an opaqueness about how these, these chat boxes and how these social media platforms are being operated by algorithms.
And you go to the Pentagon, you know, they used A.I. to evaluate their offerings in their archives, and they threw out Jackie Robinson and they threw out the Enola Gay because the word was gay. And it the plane that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. Now, they corrected some of these things when it became known. But this is -- there's a danger that the technology charges out ahead
of us. And I agree with Van. The idea that the Pentagon is going to just move forward on this.
JONES: It should be disqualified.
JENNINGS: But the government should not be afraid of innovation that puts us ahead of other nations. But not being afraid is not the same of just, hey, open the door. I mean, you have to -- you have to be careful because obviously, we're at the beginning of this. None of us really knows how it's going to unspool.
HUNT: We don't have political leaders who understand it well enough to be able to help us all navigate it successfully.
Okay. Coming up next, after nearly seven decades in Hollywood, Harrison Ford just did something he's never done before. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:59:15]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Harrison Ford, you might know him. has earned his first ever Emmy nomination at the age of 83. I'm sorry. What?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, APPLE TV+)
HARRISON FORD, ACTOR: I look around this room and I say to myself, I'm lucky guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I'm spoiling this for myself. Ford has just been nominated for best supporting actor in a comedy series for playing Dr. Paul Rhodes in the Apple TV+ show, "Shrinking". It is a wonderful show, I have to say.
He has been nominated for more than 70 awards over his career, including six Golden Globe nominations, but never for an Emmy.
Jake Tapper, I find this to be proof that I mean, this man is "Indiana Jones". He is Han Solo, he said, you know, get off my plane in "Air Force One". I get those are all movies. But he still only has one Academy Award.
I feel like he's under-recognized somehow. He's possibly my favorite actor. I'm a little biased.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": He's amazing. It's hard to argue that he's under-recognized but honestly, these awards are kind of -- I don't want to say they're meaningless, because obviously, they mean a lot to a lot of people. But he's a great actor, period. It doesn't matter who's voted for it one way or another. You know what I mean? HUNT: He's one of the best.
TAPPER: One of the best, absolutely.
HUNT: All right.
TAPPER: Let's just say there are a lot of oversights when it comes to these kinds of awards.
HUNT: Let's just say, I mean, Han Solo may be the greatest character ever on screen.
TAPPER: Well, I mean, maybe Indiana Jones.
Either way, Kasie, thanks so much. Well see you back in THE ARENA tomorrow.
HUNT: Thanks, Jake. Have a great show.
