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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Comey Indictment Could Come As Soon As Today, Even As Sources Tell CNN AG Has Reservations About Case; FBI: "We Believe" Dallas Shooter Acted Alone; Kimmel Hits Back At Trump Threat To Sue ABC: "He's A Bully"; Federal Government Studying Safety Of Abortion Drug Mifepristone, Driving New Concerns About Access. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired September 25, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.
Brianna, always a pleasure. I am off tomorrow, so I hope you get to enjoy a Friday sans me.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: No, I will not. I always enjoy anchoring with you, Boris, of course.
THE ARENA with Kasie Hunt starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Thursday.
Right now, the clock is ticking on a possible indictment of James Comey. The statute of limitations expires today on these possible charges. And the indictment could come as soon as this afternoon.
But sources tell CNN that Attorney General Pam Bondi and top prosecutors have reservations about indicting the former FBI director, who is under investigation for possibly lying to Congress in 2020.
But it's important to remember this is not happening in isolation, okay?
Senior DOJ leaders also pushing for prosecutors to charge former national security advisor John Bolton with a crime this week. That's according to two sources familiar with that investigation, which did begin under the Biden administration.
Another source tells CNN that the DOJs political leadership views charging Bolton as a way to placate President Trump. Over the weekend, President Trump made it very clear he wants the Justice Department to investigate the people that he views as his enemies. In a post that James Comey Trump wrote, quote, "Justice must be served now!!!" followed by three exclamation points.
Today, Trump denying any involvement in the Comey case, but suggesting that he could order an indictment if he wants to.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I can't tell you what's going to happen because I don't know. You have very professional people headed up by the attorney general, Todd -- Todd Blanche, and Lindsey Halligan, who's very smart, good lawyer, very good lawyer. They're going to make a determination. I'm not making that determination. I think I'd be allowed to get involved if I want, but I don't really choose to do so.
I can only say that Comey is a bad person. He's a sick person. I think he's a sick guy, actually. He did terrible things at the FBI. And -- but I don't know. I have no idea what's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: With that, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
Our panel is here to weigh in, and we're also joined by CNN crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz.
Katelyn, you've been doing all this reporting for us. What are you hearing from sources about Pam Bondi, about these reservations that the prosecutors apparently have over charging James Comey?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, a decision would have to be made not just by the Justice Department, but by the grand jury, as well, the secret grand jury sitting in one of those federal courtrooms in the Eastern District of Virginia on whether Jim Comey -- whether there's probable cause to charge him with perjury for lying to Congress five years ago.
The decision initially, though it does rest with those three people that Donald Trump identified -- the attorney general, Pam Bondi, the deputy attorney general Todd Blanche, and the U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan, who's not even been on the job for a full week, having -- having been put in place by Trump just recently after the resignation of another Trump appointee who did not want to bring a case against a different political opponent. This is something that we're watching, and I say it's fluid because we are in the final days in which the Justice Department could bring a case.
Comey testified five years ago, as of next Tuesday. So that's when the statute of limitations would expire September 30th, and there's only so many days in which a grand jury could come into a federal courthouse, be presented the evidence, and then take the vote. Today is one of them, Friday, Monday, Tuesday. That seems to be it.
We also know from our sources that there is concern in the Justice Department of the strength of this case, that Attorney General Pam Bondi has some concerns that she does believe that there -- would be possibility of bringing an indictment against Comey, but there is also a group of prosecutors in this case who essentially oppose it, saying that they have strong reservations about charging Comey, whether that carries through with the grand jury, we will have to see if an indictment materializes over these next couple of days -- Kasie.
HUNT: Katelyn, do we have any texture in terms of what the reservations are? They just think it doesn't merit a charge. They think they couldn't win the case. I mean, what's behind that?
POLANTZ: I mean, that is something that the defense attorneys in this case are probably going to have to ask very closely and look at very closely if there is a charge brought here. But there's a couple things just generally to potentially look at, as far as our sourcing goes.
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I don't want to get into the specifics because we don't actually know which answer Comey gave to congress that the prosecutors are looking at to charge, and so there could be questions around the specificity of the language, how he was asked the question, how he had answered it, his intent, potentially, if he's charged with lying. Did he want to lie to congress?
And then also, there's the issue of the fact that Comey has been investigated many times before. Is this something other prosecutors looked at? Declined to charge? Why now? After these five years since that testimony? A lot of things could be a factor here in a case like this. We have seen perjury cases in the past. But, Kasie, it really is such an unusual situation to have the former FBI director potentially being charged here in federal court.
HUNT: That word unusual is doing a lot of work for you there, Katelyn. Thank you very much for your great reporting. Stand by for us for a second.
Our panel is here. CNN senior political commentator, former Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger, CNN's special correspondent Jamie Gangel, CNN global affairs commentator, the former deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh, and Republican strategist Doug Heye. And, of course, we're also joined by CNN national security analyst Carrie Cordero.
And just for kicks, on the left side of your screen, we're also joined by our arena text chain. If you've been watching the last week or so, this is where we have additional analysis from some of our top reporters and contributors. Our thanks to them, they are going to continue their conversation while we have ours here.
And, Jamie Gangel, I actually want to start with you big picture here because, you know, you talk so much to people in the national security and law enforcement community. You've covered Capitol Hill.
You know, you've been around this town long enough to understand why this is or isn't the usual way of doing business. What do you see as the possible implications here, if, in fact, Jim Comey is indicted?
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So, first of all, lets just say political revenge is not the way our Justice Department is supposed to work, end of -- end of story, period. And there is no question there is a long history of President Trump saying over and over and over again that he does not like James Comey to put -- to put it nicely.
I just want to say I think that, you know, I just -- Xochitl said that -- in the chat there that if Pam Bondi goes against Donald Trump in this, it will be the first time there's any daylight between them. But there is another crack in the door and that is if the U.S. attorney goes to the grand jury in Virginia, you are not guaranteed an indictment. And because the president has been so out there with his feelings, it could be a grand jury comes back and says, no.
And there had -- you know, earlier this month, a D.C. federal grand jury declined to prosecute seven cases. That's very --
HUNT: The sandwich throwing.
GANGEL: Right, exactly. So it's --
HUNT: Kind of epitomizes our times.
GANGEL: It's unusual, but it's not impossible.
HUNT: Right. Congressman, we talked about this yesterday, of course. And we're sitting here, you know, kind of waiting to see if this actually ends up materializing here. But I mean, do you think there's any "there" there to charge Jim Comey?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. I mean, it's -- legal experts are going to have to answer that. But again, and we talked about this yesterday, too. If you want to start prosecuting anybody that's ever lied to Congress -- I mean, you would have literally almost nothing else that you could -- you could go after because people lied in front of us all the time, even people under oath.
So, they're going to have to determine if this was technically illegal. The issue, though, is I'm not a lawyer, but you have to prove intent. You have to prove that he did it on purpose. I don't know how you prove intent. And I think people need to understand what a grand jury is. I've been -- I've testified in front of a grand jury before. It's only the prosecutor there. It's the prosecutor making the case. That's it.
There is no defense attorney. Theres no defense making a case in front of the grand jury. And so, if they don't get an indictment out of here, it would be very rare. And it would be very telling, as it has been for the sandwich bomber.
HUNT: Yeah. Carrie Cordero, let me get you to weigh in. Of course. As you know, the congressman has noted there are significant legal questions here, including this big picture, one about what a grand jury might do, what direction would you point us in?
CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think you know, part of the issue here is what exactly are the specific facts that might be alleged? And I really have a big question as to -- if the Justice Department was going to bring this before a grand jury, what lawyer in that office would be willing to do it? Normally, you'd have the assistant U.S. attorneys who would be
bringing the case, but if the reporting is correct that the prosecutors in the Eastern District of Virginia have recommended against this case, then that would leave this brand new U.S. attorney, acting U.S. attorney to potentially be the one actually presenting the matter, unless some other lawyer in the office is going to do it. And prosecutors have a responsibility that they're only supposed to bring a case to a grand jury, that they actually think that they could win.
And so, there is a -- there is a whole group of lawyers who have to be thinking about their integrity before the court. They have to routinely appear before the eastern district of Virginia, whether or not they want to put their credibility, their reputation on the line to bring this case. And they have to be personally satisfied that it is a credible case to bring.
And because this is so high profile, Jim Comey being not only former FBI director, but also a former U.S. attorney himself, it's appropriate, I think, that the attorney general is, perhaps cautiously thinking about this case, notwithstanding the political considerations she has to make.
HUNT: Yeah. So that -- I mean, fascinating. It's sometimes it's easy to look at these big characters on this huge national stage and forget the humanity and the ways in which those human relationships and their day to day lives impact major decisions like this. It's a really interesting kind of window you've given us into that thinking.
Doug Heye, let me bring you in on the political considerations, and I do want to play one of the moments, as Katelyn noted, you know, we're waiting to see exactly what if he's charged, which particular thing he said may be something that they're looking at, but we have some general reporting and ideas about the possibilities. And one of them is about -- I mean, the whole thing is tied up with the Russia investigation, right?
And there was one exchange that he had with Lindsey Graham when he testified in September of 2020, again, almost five years to the day. This was September 30th of 2020. Let's watch that exchange.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): So do you recall getting an inquiry from the CIA -- excuse me, the intelligence community in September 2016 about a concern that the Clinton campaign was going to create a scandal regarding Trump and Russia?
JIM COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I do not.
GRAHAM: You don't remember getting that or being taught that doesn't --
COMEY: Doesn't ring bells with me.
GRAHAM: Okay. That's pretty stunning thing. It didn't ring a bell, but it did come to you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, I guess in the world of proving intent, Doug, I have to say I don't recall is a pretty heavily used phrase on Capitol Hill when people are trying to make sure that they don't get into trouble for something. But for somebody like Pam Bondi, for us to be learning that she's got reservations about this, for there to be the amount of pushback there seems to be against President Trump. It's all pretty telling.
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It is. And because when you file these cases, we've all seen this on "Law and Order" a million times, you don't make the indictment unless you're pretty certain you're going to win. Not that you hope to win, but you know that you have the evidence there. And you know, Ronald Reagan, "I don't recall" was a famous line. Obviously, Bill Clinton's, you know, it depends on how you define "is".
HUNT: The definition of "is" is.
HEYE: George Costanza taught us it's not a lie if you believe it. And we don't know what George, what Jim Comey believed or didn't believe. But ultimately, Pam Bondi knows this is a very high bar to prove that.
HUNT: Yeah. Let's -- I want to talk briefly about John Bolton, which is the other piece of this, because again, we should remember, Trump is targeting political enemies kind of across the board. And Katelyn Polantz you have a little bit of new reporting about this, and I want to talk to Sabrina about it. What do you got?
POLANTZ: John Bolton, the former national security advisor to Trump. Another person, Donald Trump, deeply dislikes after working with him in the first administration. He's been under investigation for mishandling of classified national security records.
And the Department of Justice's Deputy Attorney General's Office, they want a charge against Bolton this week. They've communicated that to the prosecutors who are working on the case against Bolton. But, Kasie --
HUNT: That's Todd Blanche's office?
POLANTZ: This would be Todd Blanche's office, the deputy attorney general. So he's a political appointee. That would be relatively close or have a close pipeline to the White House, going to prosecutors, who would be the people that are working on the case, looking through all of that evidence that was gathered when the FBI did a search essentially one month ago, August 22nd of John Bolton's home in Maryland and his office in Washington, D.C.
They collected a lot of evidence. Computers, cell phones, several hard drives, a binder about allied strikes, folders labeled Trump one through four, and then several documents, including one labeled weapons of mass destruction classified documents. Bolton's attorney says many of those documents that would be on paper, those would be from past administrations, W. Bush administration, not the Trump era. And when the investigators are looking at this, Kasie, they would want to not just closely examine those documents that they're getting, the evidence that they're getting. They'd want time to question witnesses.
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So, sources are telling me that they are not ready to bring this case, but still, it is something that the deputy attorney general's office at the Justice Department is pushing for by the end of the day tomorrow. Same week as we're looking at this possible coming indictment.
HUNT: Now, it is worth noting, Sabrina, this is something that started under the Biden administration, this investigation. But how -- how do you see these threads all tying together?
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, I think when you're putting a timeline or a deadline on a case, when you don't feel that it's tight enough right now, and clearly the DOJs office is saying we need more time, and this administration is forcing them to basically deliver. That's not going to give you a case that's going to eventually -- essentially yield the result that you want. They clearly need time to go through the evidence.
If what Katelyn is saying is that they've had, you know, dozens of binders and emails and phone records to go through, I mean, that's going to take a lot of time. I think the Bolton case is also a little bit more complex than the Comey case. But at the end of the day, I mean, this is not a "Law and Order" episode, but at the end of the day, you have people that are going to put their credibility on the line.
And in 2028, Donald Trump will not be president. So, these are all people that are going to have to face decisions and consequences that they make right now, which is going to have political impacts for them down the line.
HUNT: Yeah.
Carrie Cordero, I want to kind of check in with you on the Bolton question because I am curious what you think about the merits of the potential charges against John Bolton, because our reporting is that part of the thinking here is that, well, pushing ahead with that which perhaps these officials are more comfortable with than pushing ahead with Comey would placate the president.
What do you make of that?
CORDERO: Well, what I make of that is that, that shouldn't be a factor in the Justice Department's decision making. So, trying to placate the president, trying to, sort of deal with those political sides of things really, really should not -- and I emphasize the "should" -- should not be a factor in the Justice Department's decisions about whether to bring cases.
This potential case against Jim Comey and this possible case against John Bolton are very, very different. So, one, we're talking about lying to Congress. Have to get into intent. It's not really an evidence-based investigation so much. Whereas they did execute this search warrant against John Bolton, which as we were reporting, they got a lot of different types of information, including devices.
And so I've been very curious to know whether, you know, how that would turn out for him, depending on the volume and the nature of the information they have to go through. And it -- when it involves classified information, that takes a lot of work, not just by the FBI, but they have to coordinate extensively with the intelligence community to understand the nature of that information, to understand the classification levels, to do assessments about the potential harm.
So there's just a lot more that goes into trying to determine whether they would have charges. Regarding potentially mishandling classified information or those types of charges when it comes to the Bolton case.
HUNT: Very, very different than from what they're talking about with Jim Comey.
Carrie Cordero, Katelyn Polantz, thank you both very much. Really, appreciate your insight today. The rest of our panel is going to stand by.
Coming up next, the new numbers, new records for Jimmy Kimmel. But first, breaking new details on the shooting at the ICE facility in Dallas. Investigators revealing new information about how the shooter planned it, as the president suggests there could be some form of retaliation for the attack.
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TRUMP: The right is a lot tougher than the left, but the right is not doing this. They're not doing it, and they better not get them energized because it won't be good for the left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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NANCY LARSON, ACTING UNITED STATES ATTORNEY FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS: He hoped his actions would terrorize ICE employees and interfere with their work, which he called human trafficking. And this, what he did, is the very definition of terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: This afternoon, investigators providing new details about the deadly attack on an ICE facility in Dallas that killed one detainee and left two other detainees critically wounded. They said the gunman who killed himself at the scene had intended to harm ICE agents had planned the attack for months and was a U.S. citizen, but they did not find any connection to political groups.
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LARSON: His words were definitively anti-ICE. That said, we did not find evidence of membership in any specific group or entity. Nor did he mention any specific government agency other than ICE.
All right. CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins our panel now.
John, so one of the things that we learned in this news conference is that the suspected gunman left behind, some written things what does this tell us? What have we learned about his thinking and a possible motive?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, this is what investigators called loose notes, things that they found during the search warrant of his residence. And, you know, these are things like saying, quote, yes, it was just me. Me and my brain.
These appear to be notes that were left intentionally behind as a message to law enforcement as they investigated. Were there others involved? They also said that the notes really showed planning the rifle purchase in August. The surveillance videos that they've uncovered showing his car showing up with a ladder tied to the roof, a tall ladder that they believed he used to scale to the perch he used as his sniper position.
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And that his real motive here was to strike terror. That was the word that was used repeatedly that they say was gleaned from his notes. Terror, into ICE agents, not just here in Texas, but ICE agents across the country. He referred to them as people showing up to collect a dirty paycheck and involved in human trafficking. So that gave us a lot about motive.
HUNT: Yeah, it sure did.
But all the same, John, given all those things you just laid out, the investigators wouldn't commit to saying that he acted alone. I mean, they used the words "believed" or "appeared" that this was the case despite that note. What does it tell you that they wouldn't do that?
MILLER: It tells me about the stage that we are at in the investigation. So, what they still have to do is they have to get into his electronics. They have to look at his communications, they have to look at his gaming platforms. They have to look at messaging to determine, did he tell anyone else about this beforehand? Did someone suggest this to him? Is there someone who helped him get ready for it?
Because the simple fact that he says he acted alone doesn't mean he did, but they're trying to tell us that's the early indication they're getting. He also said they'll have a problem doing that. He said good luck with the digital trail, indicating that at least he felt he has probably erased or concealed it in a way that it's going to be hard for them to find.
HUNT: So, of course, I'm going to bring up the rest of our panel back in here now.
The president, Jamie Gangel, spoke about this earlier today. And again, he is framing it as a, quote/unquote, radical left problem. Let's watch.
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TRUMP: The radical left is causing this problem, not the right. The radical left. And it's going to get worse. And ultimately, it's going to go back on them.
I mean, bad things happen when they play these games. And, I'll give you a little clue. The right is a lot tougher than the left, but the right is not doing this. They're not doing it. And they better not get them energized because it won't be good for the left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GANGEL: So, there's no evidence of that in, in what happened here today. What happened was horrific. It was unacceptable. One person has died. Two others have been injured.
But as John Miller just said, and as the acting U.S. attorney said he apparently, as we know now, acted alone. He apparently was not a member of any group. Theres just no basis for what the president is saying here.
HUNT: And, Adam Kinzinger, I want to play something that Stephen Miller said yesterday about the Democratic Party. Let's watch and you'll see why I'm interested in your opinion about it.
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STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY CHIEF FOR POLICY AND HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISOR: The Democrat Party does not fight for, care about, or represent American citizens. It is an entity devoted exclusively to the defense of hardened criminals, gang bangers and illegal alien killers and terrorists. The Democrat Party is not a political party. It is a domestic extremist organization.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: He is calling half the country a domestic extremist organization.
KINZINGER: He also goes gang bangers.
Look, this guy, I mean, he's -- he's -- he stews and hate. He does, just like, just pure his division. And the president of the United States seemingly does the same.
I think this is my concern is every time we've had pretty low points in American history, you always have a president that comes in and can calm. And I think society reflects what a president says. Here, it seems like there's division just being constantly served. And to call the Democratic Party say they don't represent Americans -- well, yeah, actually they do represent about half the country, Americans. That's exactly what they do, is wrong.
And it's, again, divisive. The thing that we need to be looking at is not -- is this the right? Is this the left? Is it whatever. It's why are young white males doing this? Why do they feel so disconnected from society that they have to turn to violence? And that's not what the president is talking about. Instead, he's talking about it's the left. And I got to tell you, we're missing -- we're missing the point here.
HEYE: You know, Kasie, I -- I was at the RNC at that Saturday morning when Gabby Giffords was shot. I drove in the office, got on a conference call with colleagues in Mitch McConnell's office, John Boehner's office, the NRCC, NRSC.
And we essentially held up a mirror to ourselves and said, how are we going to talk about this? How are we going to demonstrate to our member offices, to our colleagues that we can talk about this tragedy in a responsible way?
And my fear is Donald Trump feeds -- fans a lot of this is that incentive structure doesn't exist in the way that it used to. And what we often do now, and I think the Stephen Miller clip show that we hold up a mirror to our opponents. We rarely hold ourselves accountable anymore.
SINGH: I totally agree. I was going to say, you know, where is the mirror being held to the president? I think in moments where you have extreme tragedy, whether it be 9/11, what happened in South Carolina when President Obama went down, of course, to the AME church? You know, President Clinton after the Oklahoma bombings, you had moments where leaders really rise to the occasion and rally the country around a message and unity, and you're just seeing this fracturing further and further divisiveness permeate our society.
And to your point of like, why do we keep having these shootings? I think I have seen no solutions being offered by this administration, and I'm not saying gun reform, our background checks, laws, there's a lot that you can tackle. But I have seen nothing put forward, not by Stephen Miller, not by the president to address any of the shootings that have happened other than pointing fingers.
HUNT: The one person that we did hear from was Erika Kirk, who talked about forgiveness and what that means which, you know, is a message our political leaders could offer, but that, of course, the president seemed to explicitly not offer at that same event.
John Miller, thank you so much, my friend. Really appreciate you being here. We'll see you very soon.
The rest of our panel is going to stand by.
Coming up next here, the head of the FCC gets the "South Park" treatment after his threats to ABC, as Jimmy Kimmel continues to see his ratings boom in the wake of his late night comeback.
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JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": Moments after we taped our show last night, the mad red hatter wrote, "I can't believe ABC fake news gave Jimmy Kimmel his job back."
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KIMMEL: This is his big closer. Let Jimmy Kimmel rot in his bad ratings. And he does know bad ratings. He has some of the worst ratings any president has
ever had.
So on behalf of all of us, welcome to the crappy ratings club, Mr. President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Jimmy Kimmel pulling no punches. That was his second show back after he was pulled from the air as enthusiasm for his return seems to remain high as of right now, more than 20 million people have watched his first monologue back on YouTube. Over 5 million watched on Wednesday, in no small part because of the affiliate blackout. His show continues to be preempted by ABC affiliates Nexstar and Sinclair, which represent about 23 percent of American households.
But Nexstar has said that it is having, quote, "productive discussions," end quote, with Disney.
Also returning to air last night, "South Park", after the creators had said that they failed to get last week's episode finished in time.
My panel and our text chain are both back. They are going to continue to again talk along side us. But let's watch a little bit of -- of the "South Park" episode that aired last night while we wait -- while we wait here. They mocked Brendan Carr, the chairman of the FCC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARACTER: Were the head of the FCC be okay, Doctor?
CHARACTER: His bones are healing, so he may regain full range of motion. But if the toxoplasmosis parasite gets to his brain, I'm afraid he may lose his freedom of speech.
CHARACTER: Oh, no --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Adam Kinzinger, they claim that the dog ate their homework last week as this was all going down.
KINZINGER: Yeah.
HUNT: But clearly now, they've decided it's safe to emerge.
KINZINGER: Yeah, it worked out perfectly. Look "South Park" could be the thing that kind of, like, saves humor in this country because you know, they've taken this strong. It's like, you know, they can make fun of the president and get away with it, even though it makes him mad.
But it's just -- it's a comment on how crazy this last two weeks were. The whole FCC thing, the whole threatening. But I'm not threatening. It's just a -- we got a lot of work to do in this country, and this isn't it.
HUNT: Doug Heye, you know, I remember when conservatives -- in fact, there are still some conservatives out there who want to abolish the FCC entirely, let alone be in this place. And you know, the reality is here, like, you can see it in Kimmel's numbers, like, more people are watching Jimmy Kimmel now than were watching them two weeks ago, by a lot.
HEYE: What a shocker. Donald Trump is good for business. And that's the reality. He's good for Fox News. He's certainly good for "South Park" and Jimmy Kimmel. And they know that.
There's a reason that Stephen Colbert made a switch when his numbers were really in the tank, and he went all in political against Donald Trump. That was a business model. What Jimmy Kimmel is doing right now -- look, he's standing up to the president. He's going to get huge applause for it.
But it's also a business decision. This is now the business that they're in. And I don't think that would surprise anybody.
SINGH: Well, they also thought, you know, the FCC, Donald Trump thought by silencing Jimmy Kimmel, they were getting rid of someone that was really holding up the mirror. To your point, earlier, sort of to this administration and giving commentary on some of the things that they were doing. And it really had the opposite effect by growing the larger audiences -- Kasie was saying, you know, 20 million people have watched his opening monologue.
Those are not numbers that he has seen in a while. And so, it's a business model. But also it did have the unintended effect that Trump and the FCC wanted.
HEYE: Of course, but also remember, Donald Trump understands professional wrestling better than any president we've ever had. And he encapsulates the bad guy wrestler. If you're cheering him, you're doing what he wants. If you're booing him, you're doing what he wants. He's still that center of attention that he always craves to be.
GANGEL: Yeah. Could I -- could I just add the productive discussions that Nexstar is now having to put him back on the air? Guess what? They've seen those ratings, too.
KINZINGER: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
HUNT: Perhaps they would like viewers as well.
Let's watch a little bit more of what Kimmel had to say last night about the way he talks about President Trump and why he does it.
[16:40:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: For those who think I go too hard on Donald Trump, to the point where there are still a lot of people who think I should be pulled off the air for making fun of Donald Trump. So, I want to explain. I talk about Trump more than anything because he's a bully.
I don't like bullies. I played the clarinet in high school. Okay? So I -- I just don't like it.
Donald Trump is an old fashioned '80s movie style bully taking your lunch money, and if you give it to him once, he'll take it again. Two things he loves: lunch and money.
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HUNT: Is he right?
KINZINGER: Oh, yeah. I mean, listen, I think what's going to be interesting in all of this is this could be and I've said this 500 times in the last even nine months, like, this could be the thing that, right? This could be the thing that kind of wakes America up to like this overstep, particularly when it comes to their First Amendment.
Colbert gets yanked off the air, but he still has a year, and it kind of people like, I still got a year. This happened and it came basically directly after this very visible thing that Brendan Carr did. This really created a backlash that has not happened this whole nine months, by the way.
The opposition to this administration has been really divided. The Democrats have not had their message together, and this was organic. This could be a thing that kind of ignites that.
HEYE: As we're approaching a shutdown and I'm having flashbacks to our conversations in 2013 about Ted Cruz. Interesting that he played a prominent role here.
HUNT: Yeah, it is for sure.
All right. Coming up next here, the newest medication that is now coming under scrutiny by RFK, Jr.
Plus, what the vice president is now saying about Tylenol and how it lines up or doesn't with the president's advice. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know that some of these medications have side effects. We know that even despite those side effects, sometimes they're necessary. So, my guidance to pregnant women would be very simple.
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[16:46:17]
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ROBERT KENNEDY, JR., HHS SECRETARY: We're getting data in all the time, new data that we're reviewing. And we know that during the Biden administration, they actually, twisted the data, to bury one of the safety signals, was a very high safety signal, around 11 percent. So, we're going to make sure that that doesn't happen anymore.
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HUNT: That was the health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, earlier this month, telling senators on Capitol Hill, the FDA is collecting new data about mifepristone. That is one of the drugs that's used in medication abortion.
Now, Kennedy and the FDA commissioner have notified a group of Republican attorneys general that they are formally conducting a review of the drug's safety and, quote, investigating the circumstances under which mifepristone can be safely dispensed. This, of course, raises concerns the administration may be moving to try to limit access to the drug. Mifepristone has been approved by the FDA for 25 years. It has long been determined to be safe and effective, according to decades of data -- data that Kennedy himself was presented with back in January at his confirmation hearing.
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SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-WI): More than 100 studies have confirmed that 99 percent of patients who took the abortion pill had no complications. So, with all of that, I can only conclude that you would commit to keep this science backed and proven medication on the market and accessible for women. Is that correct?
KENNEDY: I am going to, with mifepristone, President Trump has not chosen a policy, and I will implement his policy.
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HUNT: All right. Joining us now for more on this is Dr. Edith Bracho- Sanchez. She is a primary care pediatrician, and she teaches at the Columbia University Irving Medical Center.
Doctor, welcome back. Thank you so much for joining us. I want to -- I'd really love to hear from you about what we know about
this drug, because this clearly the politics at play here, the rest of our panel will weigh in on. And they are, of course, many. But you are familiar with the data with how widely this is used and with what we actually know. So can you just walk us through what that is and how women should feel about potentially using this medication if they're -- if they're told that they need it or decide that they want it.
DR. EDITH BRACHO-SANCHEZ, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IRVING MEDICAL CENTER: Yeah, absolutely, Kasie. Let's talk numbers. Let's talk numbers.
So, this drug has been in use in the United States since the year 2000, when the FDA approved it. As you mentioned, it is used alongside the drug misoprostol to end pregnancies through ten weeks of gestation. It is extremely effective. It is also extremely safe.
We don't only use it in this country, which sometimes we lose sight of. I think we -- we talk a lot about what happens in this country, but this drug is approved and is in use in over 60 countries around the world. And when it comes to death rates, I know that sounds like a crazy thing to say, but I think we may be hearing about death rates, so it's important to put them in context right up front.
For mifepristone, the death rate is five for every 1 million people who use this medication. For penicillin, Kasie, it's 20 for every 1 million people who use it. For Viagra, we're talking about 50 deaths for every 1 million people who use it.
So, I just encourage people when they hear these numbers coming out soon, and I have no doubt that they will come out and they will be used to support whatever hypothesis they wish to support. I just urge people to go back to the numbers.
HUNT: Yeah. You heard it here first, Mifepristone, safer than Viagra.
[16:50:01]
Doctor, the other -- the other piece of this that I think is important. And, you know, this is something that oftentimes is not talked about widely enough. There can be a lot of shame, a lot of pain around people who go through miscarriages. This drug is not just an abortion drug. That may be the word that if someone is having a miscarriage of a wanted baby that's used in a medical setting.
But can you talk a little bit about -- I mean, women who are making a decision about whether to use or take this drug, this is not a situation where it's always someone who is making a choice that they have a pregnancy, that they no longer want.
I mean, this -- this is women's health care in a way that I think is as a political reporter at this piece, can get lost in the political debate. So I'm really interested in your perspective on it.
BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Absolutely. I think the best way I can put it is this is a medication that women need. It is not a medication that they ever want. And I'll talk about it from a personal perspective, Kasie. I've talked about this very publicly.
I had a first trimester miscarriage where I needed to use a medication abortion. And the thing is, when I shared my experience on social media, it very quickly went viral. Not because there's anything special about me, but because it resonated with so many women. So, I think we lose sight of how common this is, and we lose sight of the fact that this is health care, that this is something that we need as women and that we never, rarely, ever want -- Kasie.
HUNT: You know, absolutely.
And, Jamie Gangel, to bring this back to the political piece of this, I mean, you're a mom as well. You know, for, you know, I have never had the misfortune of having to deal with miscarriage myself. But I have plenty of women in my life who have dealt with the choice between having a surgery or using this medication to deal with a situation where they really, desperately wanted the baby.
And, you know, you could see in RFK Jr.'s answer there to Tammy Baldwin in this hearing that this is very much about politics, right? He's like, I'm waiting for the president to say what I should say here.
GANGEL: That was a political answer, not a medical or a health answer. Look, if this gets pushed further, I think politically it could very quickly turn into what we call the dog catching the car. People are, you know, so many abortion rights have been pushed back around the country. Twenty-five years, safer than penicillin and Viagra. I think this could really, you know, turn on.
HUNT: What do you think about that, Congressman? I mean, for Republicans who -- I mean, the there was a lot of question.
And, Sabrina, I'm interested in your view, too. When the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade, you know, what that meant for Democratic enthusiasm for across the country with swing voters, et cetera. I mean, is it the dog that caught the car?
KINZINGER: I think something like this would be, because I don't think it's been as effective. And I hate to talk about it in this political term, but I don't think it's been as effective for the Democrats as they had hoped because they put a lot of effort in this and lost some races they probably shouldn't have.
But I think when you start going after this pill and it's basically a de facto abortion ban or actually makes make sure that in areas where abortion is legal, it makes it more inconvenient. I think that's a situation where people are going to be like, what are you doing?
One of the things I always thought the Republican Party should have done when abortion rights were thrown out is to then pivot entirely to helping women, to making adoption easier. Those kinds of pro-family things. And they didn't. Instead, you got competitions in the state for who could ban it earlier. And it was really unfortunate how that was handled.
HUNT: For sure.
All right. Dr. Edith Bracho-Sanchez, thank you very much for your perspective. I do hope you'll come back. Really appreciate it.
And we here at THE ARENA, we'll be right back.
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HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We are listening to President Trump right now. He is speaking about what happened in Dallas at that ICE facility. Let's listen.
TRUMP: -- solid people.
VANCE: Thank you, sir.
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TRUMP: I'm glad I prefaced it. But they are a great. We have a great cabinet. We have great people.
And, he didn't have great people. He had terrible people. Look at Afghanistan. Look at look at the people he had running our military that that could happen. The most embarrassing day in the history of our country was Afghanistan.
And 13 young people died. They don't ever talk about the 38 that were horribly wounded with legs and arms and everything else really horribly wounded.
So, the country's respected, like it's probably almost never been respected before. I think we're respected at a level. And a year ago it was a dead country. We had a dead country. A year ago, this country was dying.
It was really -- it was, it was really in bad shape. Let's talk about the next subject. Can we?
REPORTER: One of the most powerful deterrents we have to violent crime is the death penalty. As you said, your administration has taken bold, decisive steps to ensure that --
HUNT: All right. We're going to continue listening to what the president was doing there. He also talked a little bit about TikTok.
But for now, I want to thank my panel for being here. I want to thank you at home for watching as well.
If you missed any of today's show, you can always catch up by listening to THE ARENA's podcast. Just scan the QR code below. Follow along wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow our show on X and Instagram. It's @TheArenaCNN.
And Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
