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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Senators Leave Town, Shutdown To Go Until At Least Friday; White House: Layoffs Due To Shudown "Imminent"; Just In: Hegseth Lands In Memphis To Survey Task Force. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 01, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: -- for his community, for himself, he's gotten better, will do better, is rehabilitated and as a result should be released.

[16:00:07]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right. Well, we'll just see what happens.

Joey Jackson, thank you so much.

And be sure to stay with CNN as we follow the latest on the government shutdown. Tune in to "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" today. Jake will speak with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, an interview, that will air live today at 5:00 Eastern.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Still thinking about that bear just peacefully out there getting ready to hibernate. He'll come out when the governments open again. It'll be great.

KEILAR: There he is.

In the meantime, THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts now.

(MUSIC)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.

Sixteen hours and counting. No end in sight currently for the government, which is shut down. This afternoon, the Senate failed to advance a funding bill passed by House Republicans. The Senate done today, out tomorrow for the Jewish holiday, which means that we are stuck here until at least Friday.

And now, the White House says that permanent layoffs, not just temporary furloughs, are, quote, "imminent".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If this thing drags on for another few days or, God forbid, another few weeks, we are going to have to lay people off. We're going to have to save money in some places, so the essential services don't get turned off in other places. That is the reality of the government shutdown that Chuck Schumer and the Democrats have foisted upon the administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Enter Vice President J.D. Vance. You can see from a political perspective how he is seizing this moment. He took the rare step of joining today's White House briefing, and that put himself front and center in this story. He argued that even if the Trump administration decides to permanently cut jobs, that would still be the Democrats' fault.

Democratic leaders quick to respond to that, claiming that no, the opposite is true.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Democrats have repeatedly made clear we are ready to sit down with anyone at any time and at any place in order now to reopen the government, to enact a spending agreement that meets the needs of the American people and to address the devastating Republican health care crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So how long will this shutdown last? Days, weeks? Months?

The longer that it goes on, the bigger and deeper the impact will be, not just here in Washington, but for Americans across the country.

Here was Senator John Fetterman. So, he's one of just two Democrats who voted in favor of reopening the government this afternoon. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): It's small for us, but I mean, all the other peoples -- the millions of Americans lives in that chaos with this now, too. It's like -- I mean, if this is -- this isn't entertainment. And if it is an entertainment, this is a really shitty show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA. My panel will be here.

And we're also joined by CNN's Manu Raju. He's on Capitol Hill.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is outside the White House.

Manu, to you first. Beautiful day belies the story. We know this shutdown is going to go through at least Friday. What are you hearing as senators -- you're out there to be clear because they're heading out of town. And this is where you catch up with them when they do that.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they've actually already left, Kasie. In fact, senators are the last -- (CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Oh, so you just outside because it was nice.

RAJU: -- about an hour ago. Just because it's just a beautiful day outside. And nobody's in the Capitol because the Senate -- the Senate is out. And also, the House is out, too.

Remember that Mike Johnson has not had recess the House all week long in an effort to pressure Senate Democrats to accept the House passed bill that would extend government funding and reopen the government for seven weeks. Senate Democrats, for a second straight day and for the third time, blocked that Republican bill because they are demanding what they've been calling for, for the last several weeks. They want an extension of expiring Obamacare subsidies set to expire at year's end. They want to reverse cuts under the Medicaid program that were enacted as part of the One Big, Beautiful Bill Act.

But Republicans say all that needs to wait. They say they're not even going to negotiate. They want to vote first on this bill to reopen the government for the second straight day, just three Democrats voted to advance that bill. They need eight to come on board showing you the challenge ahead.

Now what both sides are banking on is public pressure on the Republican side. They hope that pressure will build on those Democrats who are concerned about what the shutdown will mean for their constituents back home, and that ultimately, they'll vote for this bill to reopen the government. And then the Democratic side, they believe that the federal firings that are set to take place within one or two days, according to White House officials, that that will put pressure on Republicans talking to members on both sides of the aisle. Both are concerned, including one Republican senator, about the White House plan to fire federal employees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What about these mass firings the White House is promising. Are you okay with that?

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Well, I'm not in that sport, Manu. That makes everything going forward more difficult for us, where we -- where you need 60 votes, and in the House where you have, you know, moderate Republicans that -- you know, that need to have, need to have some wiggle room. And I just don't like squandering that political capital.

SEN. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D-NV): And my concern is with the shutdown, there's going to be more costs to Nevadans. I don't see actually engaging in a shutdown that's going to harm people, to help people. Our goal should be to help everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment coming from Senator Catherine Cortez Masto, she's a Democrat from Nevada. She's one of the three Democrats who did vote today and yesterday to advance that Republican bill to reopen the government. She is raising concerns about the approach that's being taken here.

She's saying that she's concerned about Democrats harming one group of people, people who are being impacted by the federal government in order to what she says, help another group of people who could be impacted by these health insurance premiums increasing as if these subsidies were to expire at years end, all of which is raising some real questions here, Kasie. How long will this last? Which side will budge first and the impact this will have on so many Americans?

It's unclear how long will this last, because I can tell you, I talked to a lot of Democrats today who represent federal workers who are in those swing states and the like. Many of them are making clear they are still in line with the Democratic leadership position, which is to fight this and not to capitulate to the Republican demands. We'll see if that changes as they hear more concerns from their constituents -- Kasie.

HUNT: Yeah. Fair enough.

So, Kristen, obviously we showed the Vice President J.D. Vance taking part in the press briefing earlier today. We also had seen him the day before come to the microphones with congressional leaders. Any sign that the administration is going to give at all here?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, I would say there's zero sign that they're going to give at all. One thing we did hear from the vice president is he is talking to moderate Democrats, but they don't seem to have any indication that it's time for them to move in that same direction, that they are fine where they are right now.

One thing to note here, Vance got up there talking a lot about this pressure that each side is putting on each other. The vice president went up there and alleged, which we've heard from this White House a number of times, that essentially Democrats were holding up passing this clean C.R. bill because they wanted to get health care for illegal immigrants. And just to be clear here on what Democrats are actually seeking, they are seeking a continuation or pushing for a continuation of these generous federal subsidies that would help Americans pay for Obamacare.

They're also trying to reverse some of the cuts to Medicaid that are set to -- go into effect at the end of the year. This, of course, those cuts were put into President Trump's sweeping domestic policy agenda there. But this is just part of the blame game.

And as you mentioned, I mean, people's lives, lives and livelihood are at stake. Now, another thing I want to mention here is that the retaliation and the pressure is coming from all sides. We also saw this morning the head of the OMB, Russ Vought, is really at the center of all of this.

He's the mastermind behind what they're doing here, putting out a tweet saying that until further notice, the federal government was pausing about $18 million in funding for infrastructure projects in New York. That might -- may be interesting to some people, given particularly who the constituents of New York belong to like Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries.

Now, of course, the White House is saying that the timing is not necessarily completely aligned, but --

HUNT: Totally, yeah.

HOLMES: Certainly, certainly seems certainly seems like they are ramping up the pressure in any which way that they possibly can. Again, when it comes to those layoffs, the White House has said that these programs that would be laid off, these workers that would be laid off, would be part of programs that were not in line with President Trump's agenda. So, essentially saying that their people, their voters, their support would not be harmed by this.

Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what this actually looks like.

HUNT: Yeah, I think the saying goes, if you see a turtle on a fence post, it didn't get there by itself.

Kristen Holmes, Manu Raju, thank you both very much for your reporting.

Our panel is here, CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams, CNN political commentator Jonah Goldberg, former DNC senior adviser, communications director Xochitl Hinojosa, and the former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, Marc Short.

Welcome to all of you.

And joining us on the left side of your screen, you will see our ARENA text chain. You're going to have additional analysis from a key few CNN reporters. In this case, they're going to talk again, as they did yesterday, about the real world impact for many of you back home and what that will mean.

But, Jonah Goldberg, let me start with you, because I got to tell you, like, as I've been covering this shutdown and paying attention to what everybody says here, it really feels like the mirror image of what we saw over and over again from Republicans attempting to use any kind of, you know, version of this.

[16:10:07]

And frankly, what Republicans are saying from the podium about all of the negative effects of a shutdown have come from Democrats in the past. The politics of this feel old, but the roles are reversed.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, it's like one of those twilight zones where the same actors but take different roles kind of thing.

Look, I -- this is a lot like 2013 where you had a senator for narrow personal political reasons, Ted Cruz, trying to force changes and force a debate about health care policy, holding up, you know, shutting down the government. This time, it's Chuck Schumer doing it in part because he's afraid of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the threat from the base of the party doing pretty much the same thing.

It doesn't feel like the -- like I remember 2013, the blame was uniform from the media that it was Republicans' fault, and it was the Republicans' fault.

HUNT: Republicans blamed Ted Cruz.

GOLDBERG: Yeah.

HUNT: I will say that, the big difference is there are many -- there are Democrats behind Chuck Schumer. There were not a lot of Republicans.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. But Chuck -- but the point is like just literally on the technical point --

HUNT: Yeah.

GOLDBERG: -- the Democrats are shutting down the government. And I think if the White House could control itself in its messaging and not be so gleeful in its body language about this, the blame would go to the Democrats. But there is a chance that if Trump seizes this as an opportunity and sort of welcomes it, that the normal American watching this will say, you know, that guy who created a lot of chaos for the last eight months, maybe he's responsible for this chaos, too.

HUNT: Marc, what do you think about that in terms of who may win the messaging war?

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: I agree with Jonah entirely. I think that this is a Democrat shutdown. I think Republicans have passed a bill through the House. They've added other things to this, and it's not about policy. It's about concern in the party, their base, their party, and they're trying to placate him, which I think is similar to 2013, despite the Ted Cruz in the House, a similar dynamic with Boehner where it's like, okay, you guys want to do this, we're going to walk into this.

But there isn't really a pathway out. And so, I think we have seen the same play but I think it's important to step back for one second and just say, really how unserious this moment is, that it was two years ago that Republicans replaced Kevin McCarthy as speaker for bringing the same bill and keeping spending it with Biden levels --

HUNT: When you put it like that --

SHORT: -- that has every Republican on board and every Democrat that voted for it two years ago is now against it. That's how unserious this moment is, that basically, the speaker of the House Republicans have replaced for putting forward a continuing resolution to keeping spending at Biden levels. What we're saying to America is Republicans are like, hey, bring on $2 trillion more in spending, and Democrats are saying, no, were going to shut it down. We want $3 trillion more in spending.

HUNT: Xochitl?

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, first -- thank you.

First of all, Donald Trump, it's his way or the highway on everything. And I -- it -- I -- over the last nine months, we've learned one thing that it is never Donald Trump's fault. Nothing is Donald Trump's fault. The tariffs that what is happening with the unemployment rate when --

HUNT: You mean according to Donald Trump.

HINOJOSA: According to Donald Trump, it is never his fault. And so, of course, he's going to go out and blame Democrats. Of course, he's going to do this. The problem with Donald Trump is he doesn't want, he claims he's a great negotiator. He can cut all these deals.

We have yet to see him cut any sort of major deal, whether it is a war, whether it is his tariffs that's been going a little bit slow and he won't even come to the table with Democrats.

Here's what I'll say on health care is this is an easy fix for Republicans. The polling is overwhelming clear that Americans want affordable health care. If Republicans don't give it to it, there will be Democrat -- given to it, Democrats will be running ads, as I'm sure they already are across the country ahead of the midterm elections to try to make this a health care debate.

And Republicans, I don't think, are going to do well. The other thing to consider here is in the next month, you have Virginia and New Jersey. How does this play into Virginia and New Jersey?

I don't think that this is the discussion that Republicans want to have in Virginia and New Jersey about health care, because it does not benefit them. So, there are real political consequences for Republicans, and it will be interesting to see whether or not Trump ever realizes.

HUNT: Although considering the federal workforce in northern Virginia, Abigail Spanberger might have an interesting kind of -- it may cut differently for her.

One thing, Elliot Williams, too -- I mean, this is, of course, a messaging war in many ways, right? And the question of who takes the blame is often based around, you know, who does the best job explaining things to people. One thing Donald Trump has been, and even Joe Biden acknowledged this right, that Donald Trump sent every American who got a COVID check something with their with his signature on it, right?

So, if you go to the HUD website, it says the radical left in Congress shut down the government. HUD will use available resources to help Americans in need. Okay, not some, not a tactic that Democrats used, right? In previous shutdowns, but one that, you know, gets the message that they have across to anyone who comes looking for help.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, it's a lot of it is messaging, but a lot of this is messaging in the abstract about something that most people in the public simply do not understand.

[16:15:02]

I think the breaking point or tipping point for anybody here happens in about two weeks, when government workers start not getting their paychecks.

When you start -- Vanessa Yurkevich touched on this a little bit in her first comment in the chat that at a certain point, you're talking about hundreds of thousands of people not paying taxes or not contributing to the tax base or not having money in their pockets to spend, which will have impacts across the economy. I think Democrats and Republicans will start to feel the pain at that point right now, wondering who's talking most effectively about it is really something.

It's wonderful for us, but I just don't think the true impacts of this can be felt for a couple of weeks.

GOLDBERG: It's also important to point out that compared to some of the shutdowns in the distant past, we have set it up so that government shutdowns are less painful than they used to be, right?

Everyone's still going to get their Social Security check. The post office is still going to be open so everyone can get their Gorsuch catalog on time. And, the -- and so like the effects of this, it may be two weeks. I think it's more like four weeks. A lot of government workers, they can probably skip one paycheck if they know they're going to get reimbursed. It's when --

WILLIAMS: Although, you know, one thing I would say, Jonah, the one thing that might feel different now is I'm not convinced that every government worker is going to be repaid for their time in the way that in the past shutdowns, I was still in government for the 2013 shutdown, and there was a sense that, oh God, this is really bad. People are losing money, but everybody's going to be repaid at the end.

No, I think number one, a lot of people are getting fired and two people who are not may not necessarily get --

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: Well, also, Trump is trying to make this worse. I mean --

SHORT: I think it's like -- I'm agreeing with you in some way, but I think it's less broad than the federal workforce. I think it's -- this is convenient that members of Congress and their staff were paid yesterday.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

SHORT: That was payday on the 30th. So, two weeks from now will be October 10th. And so, I'm agreeing with you on the timeline.

HINOJOSA: Well --

SHORT: It's brought about federal government. I think it's like when members and staff stop getting paid.

HINOJOSA: Well, Donald Trump has also taken an ax to the federal workforce. I mean, there are 200,000 less jobs in the federal workers. I guess, in the federal government. And yesterday was the day of the fork in the road. We lost 100,000 federal employees.

If -- this isn't -- they're not talking about the J.D. Vance clip. They're not just talking about furloughs. They're talking about using this as a moment to condense the federal government even more, which is insane and extremely harmful.

So, I agree with you. I think people are going to feel it, but then people are also going to lose their jobs.

GOLDBERG: That's my point about --

HINOJOSA: Not just being furloughed.

GOLDBERG: Trump's body language and messaging could steal the blame for something that it's not his fault, right?

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GOLDBERG: If he starts relishing about how we get to fire all these people and saying how this is great because we're going to close all these agencies, it doesn't seem like he's the one opposed to a government shutdown.

HINOJOSA: Well, and Trump and his allies still get paid. Political appointees at the highest level are still -- they're still working. They're still, you know --

WILLIAMS: To your point about Virginia and New Jersey, the big ones, Virginia, with 150,000 federal employees in it. You know, they might have just handed the race to Abigail Spanberger, who was already winning. But this is a -- if the president is out there dunking on the fact that all these federal employees have been fired, well, he's got a Republican running in a state right next door who's already struggling. This is not --

HUNT: I wouldn't be surprised if you asked Abigail Spanberger if she thinks Chuck Schumer is doing the right thing, that she would say that no, he's not, right?

WILLIAMS: Oh, I agree with that. But I still think the mere fact that that many people losing their jobs in a state where the presidents already underwater is just can't possibly be good for the Republican running the governor's race there.

HUNT: Abigail Spanberger would also probably need a stronger opponent in a race. WILLIAMS: Touche.

HUNT: Anyway, thank you to our friends in THE ARENA text chain. The rest of our panel is going to stand by.

Up next, we're going to talk live with key lawmakers in both parties. Republican congressman Jim Jordan will be here, and so will Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego. Both live this hour in THE ARENA. They're going to tell us who they're talking to, not talking to. And just when they think this impasse might pass.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): This is terrible. This is just terrible. I just urge my Democrat colleagues, let's -- let's move beyond this. I mean, let's fund the government.

REPORTER: How long are Democrats willing to hold out for these demands?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): What are you talking about? Tell Republicans to negotiate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:23:28]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: Our troops are not getting paid. Starting today, low-income Americans who require food assistance, who will not get it. We have flood insurance as we start hurricane season in the southeastern part of our country. That flood insurance is going to disappear. The hostage, it turns out, is critical, essential services that the American people need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Vice President J.D. Vance outlining some of the many ways that a government shutdown could impact Americans across the country. Democrats, outlining what they see as the top consequences for themselves, arguing if they don't secure an extension of Affordable Care Act subsidies, Americans will feel that squeeze as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): When the reports of these hospitalization premiums started arriving in the mail in the next 24 to 48 hours. This debate is going to change People are going to realize that the big, beautiful Trump budget bill is destroying their home budgets for their families, and it's making the cost of health insurance so expensive that many people have to drop their coverage.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: All right. Joining us now is Republican congressman from Ohio, Jim Jordan. He's the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, also sits on the House Oversight Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for being here. I do want to start with this point.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): You bet. Good to be with you.

HUNT: Thank you -- about health care. Do you think --

JORDAN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- Americans are prepared for the jump in prices of their premiums if these subsidies aren't restored?

JORDAN: I think the vice president said it best. He said the Democrats are shutting down the government over policy difference that doesn't take effect until next year.

[16:25:04]

There's time for that debate. I actually think the biggest concern there is all the money going to the insurance company. It's not what's going to happen to people. It's the -- it's the windfall insurance companies get and what we've done earlier.

So, the real question here, though, Kasie, is Democrats won't vote for the very thing they supported six months ago. Why is that? Why will not Chuck Schumer vote for the exact same thing he voted for in March of this year?

I mean, I think for Chuck Schumer, it's real simple. You can choose common sense. Vote for what you did before.

And we can have this debate on the -- on the Obamacare premium tax credit. We can have this debate over the next three months. Vote for what you did before or side with the radical left and side with AOC, because you're concerned about that primary.

So, that's the choice. And all the concerns that the vice president laid out, they're all because Chuck Schumer won't vote for what he supported just six months ago.

HUNT: Do you think that Republicans actually would negotiate in good faith with Democrats on these subsidies, though?

JORDAN: What I think is you got the House Freedom Caucus, you got the mainstream Republicans, you got the Republican Study Committee, you got house leadership, you got senate leadership, and you got three Democrats in the Senate who all voted to keep the government open. And Chuck Schumer won't do it.

Everyone knows the common sense thing to do here is to fund the government. And then you can have a debate on all kinds of things over the next several months as we move into the new calendar year. That's how it should work. Everyone gets that, except it seems, the leadership in the House for the Democrats and the leadership in the Senate for the Democrats.

HUNT: So to this point, Congressman, and while we introduced you with your current committee titles, you, of course, played a key role in the House Freedom Caucus during a number of shutdown fights past. "The Washington Post" editorial board wrote this about the freedom caucus and the tactics -- many of these, the tactics that were seeing here, you know, there is some mirrored comparisons.

They write this, quote, "The Freedom Caucus tactics have failed to achieve Republicans goals every time. There is no reason to think this shutdown will end any differently for its left-wing counterpart. The most likely outcome is that Democrats will come to regret having just walked into a trap."

JORDAN: Well --

HUNT: Go ahead.

JORDAN: Well, I would just say this in the past, when Republicans have been involved in fighting for a policy position around the end of the fiscal year, when we were in those positions, our policy position was at least what the election was about. There is no way Democrats can say, 11 months ago we just had a national election. President Trump won in a big way.

There is no way they can say, oh, Obamacare premium tax credits and health care for non-citizens. Those were the central issues. They weren't even on the -- on the scoreboard. They weren't even an issue at all. The issue was securing the border. That was the central issue of the last campaign.

So they are even -- their position is contrary to common sense. And it's over a policy difference that wasn't even part of the debate, wasn't even part of the election just 11 months ago, when at least when we had -- when we had this shutdown situation, we were fighting to repeal Obamacare, which was the central issue in those campaigns in '10 and '12.

And then, of course, back in '19, it was over border security, which was also a central issue in the previous election.

HUNT: How do you think it worked out for you, though, as Republicans? Do you feel like you took the blame and that ultimately it was a bad idea to do that politically?

JORDAN: Well, what I know has worked out for us is the issue that was front and center then, 2019, border security was the issue that was front and center in this last campaign. President Trump won largely because of that issue, and the border is now secure. So, I do know that policy issue worked out. At least it took a while, but it worked out in the direction we thought it should, where we now have a secure border, which we didn't have, obviously, under President Obama -- excuse me, President Biden. HUNT: Can I ask you, President Trump has and the Trump

administration, and we heard from the vice president today, J.D. Vance have talked about mass layoffs in the federal government. There are obviously thousands of federal employees that are not just based here in the D.C. area. There are thousands of them in Ohio, where you're from, in states across the country.

Do you think it is wise policy for the Trump administration to permanently lay off thousands of federal workers if this shutdown continues?

JORDAN: Well, I would just start from, you know, when you have a $37 trillion debt and the Democrats refuse to fund the government, what are you supposed to do? I mean, it forces the administration into a position of making difficult choices. That's where they're at. So, I mean, that's the lay of the land.

If the Democrats would fund the government, keep the government open, there wouldn't be those choices that would have to be made. But when you're in that position, $37 trillion debt, running trillion dollar deficits year after year, and the Democrats refuse to fund the government at a level they agreed to six months ago, what in the heck is Russ Vought, what in the heck is the Trump administration supposed to do?

[16:30:07]

Particularly when you have employees --

HUNT: Do you think voters would punish you for that?

JORDAN: -- who are engaged in activities that aren't consistent with the administration's positions?

HUNT: But I'm asking about people like the staffers at your veterans hospitals in Ohio, places like that. I mean, the cuts that we've seen from the Trump administration have been across the board.

JORDAN: No one's -- no one's talking about that. They're essential employees that you talk about veteran services, Social Security, the post office, our military, those are essential services that that those employees are going to be there to provide the essential services that they do. Everyone understands that. That's not what -- that's not what we're talking about.

What I'm saying is when you got a debt of that magnitude and the Democrats refuse to fund the government at a level they've already voted on and supported just six months ago, it puts the administration in a position of having to make those difficult choices, and they're certainly willing to do them in an effort to deal with the problems created by the ridiculous spending over all the years of the Democrats. And, of course, the refusal to fund the government.

HUNT: Congressman, I do want to show you one thing that Senator Cramer had to say about the potential risk of these mass layoffs, which I on the one hand, take your point about essential employees, but also the Trump administration has clearly found government employees where were hearing from people at veterans affairs about other cuts under the DOGE cuts, et cetera., that have really impacted care.

Let's watch what Senator Cramer said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRAMER: There's the political ramification, perhaps, that could cause backlash. You know, at the polls, there's also -- it makes everything going forward more difficult for us where we -- where you need 60 votes and in the House where you have, you know, moderate Republicans that, you know, that need to have, need to have some wiggle room.

I just think it does run some risk of making future policy and spending issues more difficult, more challenging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, do you really not think there's a risk of political backlash if they do mass layoffs?

JORDAN: I think that -- I think the real problem here is the Democrats who won't do what everyone knows needs to be done. And frankly, as I've said now multiple times, what they voted for six months ago.

I do not get this. I do not get why you can't just -- now, here's the other, three Democrats agree with this. I think that number is likely to grow when they come back on Friday and have the next vote. I think it might be four or five.

I think there are enough Democrats who have common sense who will say, this is ridiculous, particularly in light of the fact we just voted for it six months ago. Now we can't.

That is the fundamental question. That is the central question. And I think the American people understand that. Chuck Schumer said yes to it six months ago. Go read what he said. Go listen to the comments he made.

And now, it's 180 degrees opposite of that because he's concerned about the left. He's picked the left over common sense and that is -- he can do that. I just don't think --

HUNT: It's blowback since March I -- for sure.

Congressman, very briefly, how long do you think this is going to last?

JORDAN: I have no idea. That's the -- the one person can answer that question, Chuck Schumer.

HUNT: All right.

JORDAN: Ask Chuck Schumer, how long is it going to last? Because all he's got to do is vote for what he did before.

HUNT: Congressman Jim Jordan, very much appreciate your time. Thanks for coming through. I appreciate it.

JORDAN: You bet, Kasie. Thank you.

HUNT: All right. See you soon.

Up next, Vice President J.D. Vance says he's engaged in private talks with Senate Democrats. We're going to ask one of those Senate Democrats what is going on behind the scenes. Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego will be here live.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): We are not that far apart. This is not that difficult to solve. If people would just sit down, actually, a number of my women colleagues and I have talked about the fact that if the women were in charge, we'd have done this by now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: We need five more in order to reopen the government, and that's really where were going to focus, is how to get those five additional Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Vice President J.D. Vance making an appearance during today's White House briefing to say the administration will not be negotiating with Senate Democrats who are unwilling to back off their party's demands over Affordable Care Act subsidies.

But Vance did say he's in private talks with several Democrats, who he says may be willing to negotiate a quick end to the standoff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: A lot of them will admit in private that it's kind of absurd to shut down the peoples government over these disagreements, but just agree to negotiate with us in good faith on these issues. And of course, we're having that conversation with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona.

Senator, thanks very much for being with us.

SEN. RUBEN GALLEGO (D-AZ): Thank you.

HUNT: Has the vice president reached out to you as someone who comes from a swing state to talk about this or not?

GALLEGO: No. And we represent -- you know, we're the Democrats mean Mark Kelly represent the Democrats, the most reddest states. But look, I am in conversations with other senators, and we are trying to find a way to do two things. Number one, I'd say open up the government. But number two, in that time period, prior to November 1st, have a pathway forward to make sure that we continue the tax credits that keep premiums low, insurance premiums low for 24 million Americans.

That is a conversation that's happening right now. It's not moving very far, but at least were having initial conversations among some senators.

HUNT: Senator, do you think bottom line here that this is good for the country, shutting down the government for this reason?

GALLEGO: I think what matters is that protecting 24 million Americans from having their insurance premiums doubled. In Arizona, more than 100,000 Arizonans will lose their health coverage in general if we don't continue these premium subsidies by November 1st is a good thing, right?

[16:40:07]

That is what, at the end of the day, matters here, because things are already really expensive. Every day Americans are paying more for cars, for housing, for food. And now, the Republicans, led by Donald Trump, are going to increase insurance premiums on average of most of 24 million Americans by 50 percent.

So, we have a time period between now and November 1st to fix that. And it's up to the Republicans whether they want to help engage in that and stop these increases on these Americans.

HUNT: Senator, I'm interested to know what you say to your colleague in the House, Jared Golden, a Democrat from Maine.

He says that this government shutdown is the result of hardball politics driven by demands of far left groups that they're making on Democratic Party leaders to make a show of their opposition to president Trump. The shutdown is hurting Americans in our economy. The irony is that it has handed more power to the president.

Now, he says this fight is ostensibly about health care, and he notes that he opposes the Medicaid cuts, wants to extend the tax credits. But then he says, some of my colleagues in the majority party have reasonable concerns going to high income households. Normal policy disagreements, though, are no reason to subject our constituents to the continued harm of this shutdown.

Do you think he's wrong?

GALLEGO: That's a whole lot of gibberish. The most important thing, again, is that what I know for a fact, 24 million Americans are going to have their premiums increased starting November 1st. So --

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: So, wait, sorry. You think that this is the result of hardball politics driven by demands of far-left groups? That's gibberish.

GALLEGO: No, I -- I think that whole conversation, everything you just said to me doesn't really matter. I know --

HUNT: So you don't think that Chuck Schumer, for example, is acting because he might face a primary from AOC?

(CROSSTALK)

GALLEGO: Twenty-four Americans are going to have their health insurance increase and -- 24 million Americans -- no, I don't think -- I think that's B.S.

Twenty-four million Americans are going to have their premiums increased November 1st. That's what matters here. That's what I want to fix.

I represent the state with the most Republicans of any senator -- Democratic senator. What I hear about is the fact that people are worried about the cost of everything. And on November 1st, hundreds of thousands of Arizonans are going to look at their open enrollment. And they're going to realize they're going to pay thousands of dollars more in premiums, because the United States government did not act. That is a problem.

And there's a way for us to fix this. Theres a way for us to negotiate this. And there could be a lot of things that we can negotiate even within, the ACA, about who should be getting it, who should not be getting what the premiums, what the lows are all that.

But the fact that were not even talking about that, the fact that Republicans are saying we'll take care of that post-November, tells me they're not serious because anybody that's ever dealt with insurance, I'm sure you've bought insurance. I bought insurance on the market. Once open enrollment happens, the prices are set. And we're not going to let Americans have an increased cost because Republicans by nature just want a knee jerk, try to take away insurance from people.

HUNT: And you think whatever costs the country will bear from the shutdown are worth it, for this reason?

GALLEGO: Well, here's the difference, right? If you're a government employee, you will get your back pay. If the United States government, Donald Trump, the Republicans do not extend these tax credits, U.S. citizens are going to pay, 24 million of them, on average, double the premiums for the rest of their lives, rest of their lives.

Right now, when the cost of food is high, groceries high energy is high, cars are high, housing is high. Now, Donald Trump, Republicans are going to add on top of that willingly insurance on top of that. And there is no going back. We could back pay a lot of our government workers. It sucks what

they're going to go through. But what's really going to hurt is a 24 million Americans that Donald Trump, Republicans are willingly going to increase their insurance premiums just out of partisan politics.

HUNT: So, look, I totally take your point about health care costs, which are enormously high, and you can even see a lot of Republicans, moderate ones, especially acknowledging that this should be part of it. But are you arguing that politics inside the Democratic Party, progressive pressure to show that you're standing up to Donald Trump has nothing to do with this shutdown?

GALLEGO: Yeah, I'm arguing that we care about 24 million Americans losing their premiums and hundreds of millions --

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: And that is not about politics inside the party at all.

GALLEGO: No. Shockingly enough, we as Democrats who have always been talking about affordable health care, who have run as the core of our party to bring more affordable health care to millions, millions of Americans.

HUNT: Yeah, I covered the whole Obamacare debate.

(CROSSTALK)

GALLEGO: -- by saying that we should actually care (ph) --

HUNT: I get that.

GALLEGO: And guess what that was about? Yeah. So, this is what I'm telling you right now. This is about affordable health care. This is about the fact that Americans, 24 million Americans are going to have their premiums increase.

I'm sorry you don't believe that, but that's what's actually happening. Americans are hurting right now.

HUNT: I never said that I don't believe that. I absolutely --

GALLEGO: Well, you keep pushing back.

HUNT: I absolutely -- I see the policy on paper.

GALLEGO: The Americans are hurting right now. Americans are hurting right now.

HUNT: Yeah. Yeah, of course, they are.

GALLEGO: And Republicans are willing to increase their premiums. They're going to increase premiums starting November 1st. There's an option not to do that.

And I'm willing to open up the government for a couple of weeks for us to negotiate that. If I know that we're going in that direction. But I'm certainly not going to let us allow 24 million of Americans to get their health insurance.

[16:45:01]

HUNT: So you -- so you would consider that if you -- if you got a good faith offer from, say, the vice president or someone else in the Trump administration to talk about this, you would consider reopening the government for a short period of time to do it.

GALLEGO: Yeah, sure. Period of time prior to November 1st, because November 1st, when open enrollment starts, 24 million Americans are going to recognize the fact that premiums have just increased. And that's going to be in addition to the fact that food is more expensive, energy is more expensive, you know, housing is more expensive.

Nothing is going in the right direction for working class America. And Republicans and Donald Trump are just going to add more on top of that, starting November 1st.

HUNT: All right. Fair enough. An interesting potential opening there.

Senator Ruben Gallego, thank you very much for your time, sir. I really appreciate it.

GALLEGO: Thank you.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next, the president's push to put federal troops on American streets coming to two new cities today. The secretary of defense and the attorney general have just landed in one of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:16]

HUNT: All right. Just moments ago, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth touching down in Memphis, Tennessee. It's the latest city where the administration has deployed hundreds of federal law enforcement officers. The president, hoping to replicate what he describes as the success of D.C.'s federalization.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to take care of all of them step by step, just like we did in D.C. We have virtually no crime in D.C. right now. And we're going to keep it that way.

This task force will be a replica of our extraordinarily successful efforts here. And you'll see -- it's a lot of the same thing. Although the numbers here are really something, they're really bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: And as the administration has done in other cities, they've sent the task force to the attorney general, Pam Bondi tweeted a tally of the arrests made in the last 48 hours.

Our panel is back.

Jonah Goldberg, this again something and this -- this -- I think it's worth noting. This follows the speech that we heard from the defense secretary, obviously renamed -- has renamed himself the secretary of war, yesterday, in front of hundreds of generals that he had assembled in front of him to talk about, a number of things, but really, the sort of extension of American military force into American cities is a fairly remarkable one.

And I'm -- I'm interested in -- how you -- to know how you thought about what we saw happen yesterday, in addition to what's playing out here today.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. So, look, there were a lot of things that Pete Hegseth said that I think are defensible. He certainly has the authority to say them. I thought the whole thing -- I'll be honest, I -- my takeaway, my impression of it was that other than it seemed like an infomercial where he was going to sell the new Trump grill that seals in flavor while draining out the grease, was that it was -- it was him announcing that he might be running for president in 2028 because it felt like a very political thing.

He talked about getting politics out of the military while doing essentially a big political rally kind of thing. It was weird. There were a lot of things that he said, I think are defensible.

At the same time, I think it's super creepy to talk about his phrase. We're going to make lethality the military's calling card, and then have the commander in chief come on afterwards and say, oh, and by the way, we're going to train our military, whose calling card is lethality, in American cities, to go after domestic enemies from within. That's super creepy.

And, the good news is, I think a lot of this stuff is mostly performative. I mean, it's going to lower crime and all that. And the troops were invited in in Tennessee, so I don't have the same constitutional issues with it. But crime has not been eliminated in Washington, D.C., but he gets to say it, and that's what he wants.

He wants headlines that he can -- talking points, and he's going to get them from this stuff. And it's probably good for him politically.

HUNT: What do you think, Marc?

SHORT: I want to get a grill that seals in the flavor and the grease. Jonah has one of those.

I think that sending the troops, as he said to Tennessee, where the governor welcomes it, is fine. I was very comfortable with him in D.C., too. It's a federal city. I think it becomes a different issue if you send them to Oregon or Illinois when the governor doesn't want them. That becomes a federalist issue that gives me greater pause and greater concern.

And I -- and I actually am was fine with a lot of things that Pete said yesterday. I just wish the administration actually had the actions to support it. This administration is opposing Senator Wicker's plan to give more funding to the Department of Defense. They keep opposing, actually giving our soldiers and airmen what they need to defend our country.

They're withdrawing from joint exercises in the Pacific. You know, we finally are seeing a positive turn on Ukraine. But consistently the first nine months has been actually not supporting our allies.

So, I didn't mind as much the rhetoric. I'd love to see actually actions back up and match the rhetoric.

HINOJOSA: Well, to add to that, the last Justice Department also came out with a big report on the Memphis police department. That police department has major problems and major problems, and they don't have enough training.

They are doing, you know, discriminatory stops. Theres all sorts of problems with it that I'm sure is not helping the violent crime issue.

So, putting a band-aid and using the national guard and military force for show is not going to solve the problems that Memphis has. The Justice Department, Pam Bondi, because she wants to empower. She thinks that, you know, all these consent decrees and investigations of police departments are bad, they completely rescinded that report, and instead they're just sending this force, right? So, at the end of the day, it's not going to help Memphis in the long term.

Iin terms of Pete Hegseth, I thought that that speech was to get in Trump's good graces.

[16:55:04]

Trump loves to show force. He loves the show of strength. He loves to see his Department of War doing this type of thing. And ever since Signalgate, I think the White House seemed quite frustrated with Hegseth. They got them -- he got them into that mess in the first place. He's made a few missteps and hasn't been able to sort of come back.

And I think he was looking for a moment to show Trump is like, look, I'm showing America as strength and as well as Donald Trump.

HUNT: All right. We have got to leave it there. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel for joining us today. Really appreciate it.

Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD", which is live today from Capitol Hill.

Hi, Jake.