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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Soon: Trump Speaks On Economy After Calling Affordability A "Hoax"; Hegseth Briefs Gang Of 8 Amid Boat Strikes Controversy; Australia Bans Social Media For Kids Under 16. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 09, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:02]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Doesn't it make you happy?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Not the contraband going into the prison. I thought that story was pretty cool.
KEILAR: Actually, that was great. Old Bay Seasoning.
SANCHEZ: That's what makes it a good Saturday.
KEILAR: Come on.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
KEILAR: Yeah. "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts now.
(MUSIC)
MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off.
I'm Manu Raju. Thanks for joining us on this Tuesday.
In just minutes, President Trump will depart for the key swing state of Pennsylvania, where he'll deliver what's being built as a major speech and the important issue, really issue number one for the midterm elections. And that's the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: I wonder what grade you would give --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A-plus.
INTERVIEWER: A-plus?
TRUMP: Yeah. A-plus-plus-plus-plus-plus.
But what you have to understand, the word affordability, I inherited a mess. I inherited a total mess. Prices were at an all-time high. When I came in, prices are coming down substantially.
(END VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: The problem for the president is that many Americans are not ready to give him an A-plus-plus-plus-plus. That's five pluses if you're counting at home. Poll after poll shows actually deep dissatisfaction, just handling the economy. And Democrats one big last month with a focus on affordability.
Now, a source within the Trump administration tells us that the president views this as a communications issue, not a problem with his economic policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Affordability, but you can call it affordability or anything you want. But the Democrats caused the affordability problem. And we're the ones that are fixing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And so the question right now is which message will the president bring to this swing state rally? Will he again, insist is all a Democratic hoax, or will he acknowledge that there is room for improvement with less than a year until the critical midterm elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President Trump is going to give a positive economic-focused speech where he talks about all that he and his team has done to provide bigger paychecks and lower prices for the American people. There's a lot more work to do, and he'll talk more about that tonight. But this is going to be President Trump's bread-and-butter issue focused on the economy. Nobody knows it better than him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: All right. So, let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA. My panel is here, along with CNN White House reporter Alayna Treene. She's in Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania, where the president will be in just a couple of hours, speaking later this evening.
So, Alayna, what are you hearing about the direction that the president will take this speech?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, look, I mean, I think it's going to be really telling to see how he approaches his speech. That's kind of the big question I had because I can tell you, Manu, in the conversations I've been having with people at the White House, people -- the president's advisors acknowledge that they have a problem when it comes to this issue of affordability. And Americans really feeling like prices are just too high.
But while sometimes, you know, you've heard some White House messaging. You've heard this from the vice president. I should point out this idea that, you know, be patient. We're working on it. The president has continued to kind of dismiss and bristle at any
criticism that its his policies that have caused kind of these concerns about the economy. He often actually blames his predecessor Joe Biden. He often says that he inherited a bad economy. I can tell you, he will likely say that type of thing tonight.
But really, I think it'll be a question of whether he dismisses some of this as not really being a real issue, because I can tell you, as well. When I talk to White House officials about this in the lead-up to this event today, a lot of people told me that the president views affordability overall as a perception issue. One of them told me, really, it's a communications issue.
But others in his team recognize that you can't really tell people how to feel. And so we'll see what tone the president strikes today. But one thing I know he will do when I talk to some of the officials about the planning for this speech, he's going to talk about the policies that he has passed. Some of the things in the Big, Beautiful Bill. The upcoming tax cuts -- those Trump accounts for children, the type of things that he has done so far to try and lower prices. He'll probably talk about eggs, the price of eggs coming down.
But, Manu, I do also want to tell you a little bit, because I spent a lot of this morning outside nearby here near this event at a grocery store, a giant grocery store. I talked to a lot of reporters because I remind you, it's interesting that the president is choosing to come here Pennsylvania's eighth congressional district. It is a swing district, and so a lot of the people I talk to, some were Republicans, some were Democrats. All of them agreed that prices are too high.
I will say some of them did acknowledge, I showed them that interview that the president did calling the economy an A-plus-plus-plus. Some of them said that's a ridiculous thing. The economy is not an A-plus- plus. Some said they would grade it, actually, as an A, and they agreed, but maybe not a plus-plus-plus and recognize what people are feeling.
So we got a lot of different -- different variety of answers and responses here on the ground, Manu.
RAJU: Maybe A-plus-plus-minus-plus-plus.
Yeah. All right. Perception issue they say. All right.
TREENE: Right.
RAJU: Can you change the perception? That is the big question. His party is asking right now.
Thank you, Alayna Treene, from the president's event tonight.
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My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist, the host of "The Interview", Lulu Garcia-Navarro, CNN political commentator Jonah Goldberg, former Democratic congressman from South Carolina, Joe Cunningham, and former Republican congressman from Washington state, Jaime Herrera Beutler.
Good afternoon to you all. Thanks for being here in THE ARENA.
Okay, since you're the Republican at the table, you get the first question. And it's about the perception. You heard Alayna say that it's the perception. Trump says the perception is A-plus-plus-plus- plus.
JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R), FORMER WASHINGTON CONGRESSMAN: It's so painful. It's so painful.
RAJU: Hold on. But this is what voters actually say, how they view the economy. More think it is negative now compared to the end of the buying term, 76 percent, they view it negatively compared to 70 at the end of the buying turn. That's from a recent Fox News poll. So, does the president need to acknowledge this head-on?
BEUTLER: I would. There's nothing wrong with a little humility. I -- it's never hurt me.
RAJU: Tell the Donald J. Trump.
BEUTLER: It has never hurt me, right? Because we all make mistakes.
Here's the reality. I had a friend, so I'm -- we homeschooled. Home fellow, homeschool mom, very thrifty, very smart, very conscious of health -- you know, the health needs of her kids was telling me the other day, and she voted for Trump.
She said she pulled a chicken out of her freezer from -- it was in the back of a freezer, frozen, from the Biden administration. Same exact brand that she pulled out recently and put it in there, right? She just purchased it. The difference in cost astounded her. And she was not happy about it.
She specifically was the one that mentioned to me, one was from the Biden administration. One was from the Trump administration, and it was not good. And that you know what that told me was if she's thinking like that, you know, this isn't -- this isn't the far-left fringe, right? If she's thinking like that, that means that's where voters are. That's where American families are.
RAJU: And you hear him, Trump saying, Biden economy, Biden economy, Biden economy. They want to -- want to blame the bad parts to the Biden economy. The good parts for Trump.
Can that -- can that work given the megaphone that he had?
JOE CUNNINGHAM (D), FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA CONGRESSMAN: He should just rebrand the Trump economics, right, and usher that in. You know --
RAJU: It didn't work so well for the Biden.
CUNNINGHAM: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, you can't sit there and tell people it's great. It's great. It's great. When it's obviously not. Like, people paying more for food. The housing crisis in this country is astounding. I live in
Charleston, South Carolina. It's just out of reach for so many people. It's not getting better.
And, you know, Jaime talked about the cost of food. That's where we are right now. Its only I fear only going to get worse because we're hearing from farmers. And I heard from a farmer in Arkansas, a soybean farmer who talks about next year's crops and how devastating things are going to be.
So, this isn't going to get better any time soon. I agree with Jaime a little humility be like, you know, like Vice President Vance said, like, you know, we understand some sort of empathy to understand that you know what people are going through. I think it would go a long way.
RAJU: Trump doesn't have that bone in his body.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No.
RAJU: That's the problem.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, he doesn't. And I think, you know, the thing that's going to be really challenging for Trump is that during Biden, there was an economic story to tell, and that was -- we're faced with a huge pandemic. There is global inflation to do with supply chains.
And even that story, which people understood because they were living it. It didn't matter, right? People were really, really angry the question is, what is the economic story that Donald Trump can tell? You know, what is it that he's doing to make this better?
Because telling me that my eggs went down in price isn't telling me what you're going to do about all the other things that aren't working. And so, this is a moment for, you know, a kind of vision and the vision that this administration has articulated is one of tariffs. And tariffs people now, if they didn't understand what it was before, they certainly do now. It's attacks on consumption. And so, people understand that it is making their lives more expensive and telling them that in a year they're going to have the golden economy that doesn't help you with your kitchen table issues today.
RAJU: What do you think of the -- where he's going right now? Monroe County, this is how it turned out in the past two presidential election cycles. Kamala Harris lost it barely in the last cycle, less than one point. Biden took it by almost six points in 2020.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Mm-hmm.
RAJU: What do you make of their strategic decision to pick? You Trump has not been doing a lot of rallies. I'm like last during the 2024 season. But now they pick here is a place to go.
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, I think it kind of makes sense. You have a Democratic Fetterman and John -- Democratic Senator John Fetterman, who's sort of is a useful figure in that he's to the right of most of the Democratic Party, but he's to the left of the Republican Party and the way he talks about the working man and all that kind of stuff is sort of an avatar. Pennsylvania's a really important state for Republicans.
I just want to say, look, I think Trump has a point where he says people are getting too caught up on the word affordability. If you change the word affordability to uncertainty, it makes a lot more sense, right? The tariffs are increasing uncertainty. It's not just the tax on consumption, and I agree entirely. It's a tax on consumption.
It's also a tax on risk-taking because businesses that produce things are like, I don't know where these target schedules are going to be in six months or three months. I could have a shipment in the middle of the ocean, and it could cost me twice of what its worth because of some whim from Trump. When Reagan took office, he said, give me a little time to get inflation out of the system. Trump had a golden opportunity to do the same argument with Biden. But instead, he says, day one, everything is awesome. New golden age.
And then he did something that's actually very, very, very, very hard for presidents to do, is he had an event that gave him that, in which he took ownership of the economy, so we're going to restructure the global economy. We're going to structure the American economy, liberation day, all this tariff stuff. And so now I think the tariffs are disastrous economic policy, for the most part, but even things that aren't because of tariffs, normal people are now associating with tariffs, and businesses are using the tariffs as excuses for other pricing groups.
RAJU: And that's one side of the affordability question. The other side is, of course, health care. We have these subsidies under the Affordable Care Act that are set to expire at the end of the year. So how are Republicans going to deal with this? Healthcare has been issued that, of course, has badly divided their party for so many years. Trump was asked about this in this interview with "Politico".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: In the meantime, I mean, two weeks, Mr. President, people will see those premiums go up. So will you tell Congress to extend those Obamacare subsidies while you work out another deal?
TRUMP: I don't know. I'm going to have to see. I'd like to get better healthcare. I'd like to have people buy their own healthcare, get much better healthcare, and what I want to do, very simple, I want to give the money to the people, not to the insurance companies.
INTERVIEWER: So, right now, people are buying their holiday presents, their planning for --
TRUMP: Look, don't be dramatic.
INTERVIEWER: No, no.
TRUMP: Don't be dramatic. INTERVIEWER: They're --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: I mean, the president -- what's -- you're shaking your head?
BEUTLER: I mean, I guess -- here's the thing. And I'm a believer that Obamacare is failing under its own weight, not just because of the subsidies. You know, I -- my insurance premiums that I buy on the individual market, right, are going up by $1,200. And I didn't get a subsidy.
This is -- this -- Obamacare was going in this direction anyway. My big concern is Republicans missed it. They missed it in 2010, right, having a solution before Obamacare.
And now, they have this golden opportunity or have had to put something in place that is better than and they're with him again. It's painful because I believe in HSAs, they're great. You know, I believe money should follow the people. Generally, it's going to be spent better than if you give it to a third party. All that's true.
But you fundamentally have to fix the system. And my biggest concern has been, you know, he hasn't -- the president has not been leading on healthcare. He's been, you know, dodging around in his world heirs tour, and that's all fine. But everything comes home to roost and you cannot have economic freedom if you can't afford your healthcare.
RAJU: And we do expect a vote on Thursday in the Senate, actually, on competing plans. Democrats are going out for one to extend those subsidies under the Affordable Care Act for three years. That's going to fail. The Republicans announce say they have their own proposal, that they're going to vote for. That's also going to fail.
BEUTLER: But even if those passed, that is not fixing healthcare. That's band-aiding a problem. They need real bipartisan solutions from the Capitol.
RAJU: I want you to hear the concerns I heard from this morning from Republicans about their lack of unity on this issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: How big of a problem would it be for your party if you do not come up with a plan for healthcare?
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Well, I mean -- I just don't know how Republicans would explain that to 24 million Americans whose premiums are going to double.
RAJU: Are you worried that you guys are in the wrong side of public opinion?
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): It very well could be. If we don't come up with something that lets American people know that we're trying to fix this and we are. RAJU: And if you don't have something viable, what is the input --
what are the implications for your party?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Well, I think they could be significant. Look, the Democrats created the problem. We've got to solve it, or going into next year, we will own a problem that they created.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: I mean, can Democrats win back the House on this issue?
CUNNINGHAM: Yeah, yeah. I think they went back to the House a lot less. But I think it can be a historic on something like this. I mean, you know, when I came in '18, as a wave year and is mainly based upon the, you know, the Trump sentiment.
You compound that with the way the economy is right now. And if people see their premium skyrocket -- I mean, generally talked about, you know, framing is uncertainty. A lot of people's expenses are fixed. They are certain. When people sign a lease or a mortgage, they know what that is. When people have their premium taken out every month, they know what that is. You know, it doesn't fluctuate too much.
So, the lion's share of their income is being taken out for just the basic necessities to live for housing, for healthcare, and for food. People are pissed. People are extremely frustrated right now as they should be. They're looking for answers. Republicans aren't giving them.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Can I make a prediction?
RAJU: Uh-huh.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Which I normally don;t like to do, but this is --
RAJU: Let it rip.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Let it rip. I'm feeling -- I'm feeling it today.
You know, health care in this country is tied to employment for the most part.
[16:15:01]
We are about to have an absolute collapse in the job market is my prediction. You are seeing all the signs of it and my concern is not only for healthcare, but for so many other things, we do not have a plan for what we are seeing with A.I. and everything else. The jobs market is sending screaming red signals at the moment. And I am just not hearing that talked about enough.
RAJU: I have to leave it there in that very dire prediction. We'll see what ultimately happens.
All right. Coming up in THE ARENA, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna will be here live as Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth briefs top lawmakers right now on Capitol Hill and stairs down growing criticism of his handling of those controversial boat strikes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: How would you assess the secretary's handling of this issue?
TILLIS: Well, again, I think a part of the concern is you need to withhold comments until you have all the facts in front of you. And the secretary got out ahead of his skis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:26]
RAJU: Right now on Capitol Hill, the so-called Gang of Eight leaders in Congress in both parties are getting briefed by the Trump administrations top national security officials, including Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Secretary of State Marco Rubio in a classified setting. A big part of the briefing, the intensifying military action the Caribbean and that controversial follow-up strike on an alleged drug boat that killed two survivors in early September.
That briefing comes as lawmakers from both parties ramp up pressure to release the full video of that deadly strike.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Do you think it would make sense for the administration to release this video?
LINDSEY: I'm okay with it being released, and I'm okay with what happened.
TILLIS: We got to release the video. Look, we got to get the Epstein files released. We got to get any videos that do not in any way compromise mission, integrity down there. Just get the stuff out there.
RAJU: Would you rather see a different secretary of defense?
TILLIS: I -- I just want to say the fact so I can make an informed decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Notably not answering there. That was Thom Tillis, who actually cast a critical vote to confirm Pete Hegseth after really struggling with that vote and Hegseth was confirmed by the narrowest emerging. Vice President Vance had to break the tie in the Senate.
Do you think that these briefings, Hegseth did not come to the last classified briefing that occurred with other top leaders. Now its leadership on both parties, can it quell the firestorm?
GOLDBERG: I think he's going to survive this moment. But, you know, there's a reason why in life not just politics, we have the phrase, the straw that breaks the camel's back. Straws by themselves don't normally break camel's backs. It's all the stuff that comes before. And his political camel, you know, is really laden down with a lot of stuff and I could definitely see there being something that we would say, why is this the thing that causes Pete Hegseth to get booted out of the administration? And it's because Trump rumors to the contrary is kind of mercurial and --
RAJU: Really?
GOLDBERG: He could actually just be like all right, that's it. I'm done over something that seems kind of trivial compared to judicial killings in the Caribbean. And so, I don't think he finishes -- he does not -- he does not serve out all four years of the Trump administration for sure.
RAJU: Yeah. And we'll see how long -- I mean, right now, Trump has his back, it seems. The way Trump has handled these boat strikes, too, has really been something to watch. He was asked about this in this interview with "Politico". Don't you listen to how he described his view of this military action that occurred in early September.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Have you watched the video?
TRUMP: -- stopping. I watch everything. Yeah, I watch everything. I see a lot of things.
INTERVIEWER: And do you believe that that second strike was necessary?
TRUMP: It's not pretty -- well, it looked like they were trying to turn back over the boat, but I don't get involved in that. That's up to them.
The admiral that did that was a highly respected, as you know, a highly respected man. And we saved 25,000 people every time we knock out a boat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: He said, "I don't get involved with that. It's up to them." He's the commander-in-chief.
BEUTLER: I mean, look, I think you're right. I'd be surprised if this secretary makes it through the administration because you see it in the way that the president is answering, you know, it I think as soon as this permeates popular culture and as soon as people see it, if it is what is purported, because I haven't seen it either. But if it is that and it's bad, I think he distances -- he further distances himself. I mean, that's what he's done with -- that's what he's done everywhere.
RAJU: Yeah.
BEUTLER: Why would this be different? GARCIA-NAVARRO: And this constant thing of like, I haven't seen it. I have no idea. But then I'm the commander-in-chief. You know, it just is this constant role that he's playing with, whether he assumes the mantle of being a commander-in-chief, or he is really trying to distance himself from something toxic.
I think we'll eventually see it. I think it's too explosive not to. At the same time, though. I do think it's going to be -- I don't think there's a version of this that people see that think that this is okay.
RAJU: Yeah, but where does the buck stop? I guess, is the question, right? Because at first, it didn't seem has made clear that it was not him who made that final order. So, it doesn't clear -- it doesn't stop with Hegseth, apparently. And Trump made clear right there -- I don't really get involved with it, so it doesn't stop with the commander-in- chief.
CUNNINGHAM: I mean, I think it ultimately stops with President Trump, and it stops, you know, on election day and voters are going to come out there and voice their dissent. I think the vast majority of people are going to be voting on the issue we talked about earlier, affordability but this is just going to be one more rung on the ladder, one more -- I also didn't like x, y, and z.
[16:25:04]
And it kind of surprised me that its taken so long for these strikes to rise to this level of attention because they are pretty egregious, and they do kind of, you know, shock you when you think about our Constitution and the role of Congress that Jaime and I served in to have that power to be able to declare war. Now, here Republicans out there saying we're at war with Venezuela and I'm just like, wait, hold on. We are?
You know, that's -- that's --
BEUTLER: I mean, they just -- they put planes in there today. They were in Venezuelan airspace, American planes.
CUNNINGHAM: There's a process.
BEUTLER: So what are we doing?
CUNNINGHAM: There's a process we go through.
GOLDBERG: There also -- I mean, this could lead to more legal constitutional problems for Trump. In the cabinet meeting last week when they were talking about this video, Trump says, well, look, I think this is, you know, this is war. We're at war.
Well, if you're actually saying the words were at war without Congress authorizing it, which is their sole responsibility when it comes to this or their own unique responsibility in the constitutional order, then all of a sudden, you have Trump in effect saying, I've launched an undeclared war, which can create problems constitutionally and politically.
RAJU: Yeah, because what is the president's objective here? Lulu, that's the question. They say this is to stop these alleged drug traffickers, prevent drugs from coming into the United States. Yeah, but also Trump suggested that Nicolas Maduro, the leader of Venezuela, that he says his days are numbered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: So, how far would you go to take Maduro out of office?
TRUMP: I don't want to say that, but --
INTERVIEWER: But you want to see him out?
TRUMP: His days are numbered.
INTERVIEWER: Can you rule out an American ground invasion?
TRUMP: I don't want to rule in or out. I don't talk about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So, is the American policy here, regime change?
BEUTLER: I don't think -- I don't know that they know. I dont think they are saying because I don't think they know, because I don't think it's thought out and put together. And that is such -- what we're dealing with in every aspect of the government.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: This regime change, though, because he just said, I'm not ruling anything out and --
BEULTER: I mean --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: So you know, but his days are numbered. I mean, that -- someone says to me, your days are numbered, Lulu. I'm going to be like, they want to get rid of me. I guess I better get my last paycheck. I mean, I'm not going to be like, hmm, what do they mean? You know, I mean, that's a pretty clear threat.
RAJU: Can the American public stomach that? Another -- I don't know, he's saying he's not ruling out a ground invasion.
GOLDBERG: We should be clear. Like, I actually don't -- a lot like the national guard deployments into cities. It is not necessarily terrible politics for Donald Trump to be killing alleged narco terrorists and all this. I mean, I think on the merits it's all sorts of problems, but I don't think it's going to be a (INAUDIBLE).
Where it's a problem sort of getting rid to Joe's point from earlier, is that, you know, people want them to focus on the economy. And instead, they see him doing shtick at the Kennedy Center. They see him renaming the Institute of Peace after himself.
They see him distracted by a whole bunch of things that make it feel like he's not actually focused on the concerns of those median voters who cared about affordability that elected him in the first place. And if we start a regime change war in the Caribbean without any public preparation for it or any debate, that seems like a really big political distraction for him.
RAJU: I mean, look, we've seen other military conflicts. Theres a drumbeat to war. Whether its Iraq and the like we have not really seen that here. Will that change? I guess that's a big question for the weeks ahead.
All right. Coming up in THE ARENA, a potential 2028 candidate wants the U.S. to follow Australia in ban kids from social media. Rahm Emanuel is here live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:00]
RAJU: Right now, Australians are waking up to a brave new world as a first of its kind, social media ban takes effect. Under the law, all children under the age of 16 are banned from using social media, including platforms like YouTube and Reddit. While some families are expected to skirt the band, they will not be penalized. The onus will be on the companies to keep kids offline.
And as countries around the world are closely watching the results from Down Under, former Chicago mayor an ambassador to Japan, Rahm Emanuel, believes the U.S. should be following suit. And he joins me live now.
Rahm, thank you so much for being here this afternoon. So --
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
RAJU: You want the U.S. to follow Australia's lead here. But here, in the U.S., wouldn't this run into real legal hurdles can raise some serious constitutional concerns as well?
EMANUEL: Well, yeah, I'm sure they're going to. Their entire profit margins based on this continuing. But the question is, it's like when it came to banning tobacco for kids that were 16 or younger or prohibiting cellphones in classroom, we saw dramatic improvements in both academic and public health gains for kids.
And I really -- I just come down to this as a parent is you know, when it comes to your adolescence, are you going to let adults be the guiding principle? Are you going to let algorithms?
You know, we were talking earlier, I'm a father of three kids. You're a father of two kids, younger in age. The truth is, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, all these companies are more powerful than you unless you get a helping hand and to protect your kids, guide them in the way you want, you should not leave it in the hands of companies that have never -- have they ever called you and asked you how your kids are doing at school? They're not interested in that. They're interested in making money,
and that is their motivation. That's not their problem.
But my view is we have taken steps, appropriate, designated driver, banning tobacco, putting it behind the counter and locking it up kids under 16 can't get it. This is as addictive of behavior, as alluring of behavior, and as destructive technology onto the kids mental and physical health and well-being.
[16:35:03]
And we, as adults, have to protect them.
RAJU: You know, oftentimes when the government tries to crack down on something that's popular, people tend to find a way around it. So wouldn't this be hard to enforce here in the United States?
EMANUEL: You know, look, it may be hard, but that doesn't mean you sit here and be immobilized. You have -- here's the deal. You have every study has come out on one side of the conclusion of whether this is either a positive, a neutral or negative. Every one of them.
We all know what the conclusion is. It doesn't mean you can say, well, somebody's going to work around it. Yeah, well, there are kids that buy cigarettes illegal. Doesn't mean you basically throw up your hands and say, forget about it. You do what you need to do, and you keep being vigilant about it because it's essential for the development of another generation.
And it's essential not only for the kids, but also to help parents in giving them a helping hand. I've never heard of parent say, you know what? I just wish my kid had more screen time and more social influence when you find them, give me their number, I want to talk to them. I would be fascinated with that take. Every parent is asking for help.
RAJU: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you. What are you hearing from parents as you came out behind this plan?
EMANUEL: Well, if any indication walking on the streets of Chicago today, they are all basically in the high-five mood because they're all desperate and hungry for some assistance. Nobody thinks what we have today, the status quo is good. Nobody thinks this is the right path.
Now, you're going to have to tweak it. You're going to have to adjust it. Australia as you said, a brave new world. There's going to be adjustments, but the status quo has failed and is failing every day.
The studies, academics are clear. You got to come up with the protocols, a set of programs, enforce it, be vigilant, and constantly update both the kids and the technology are going to try to figure out a way around it. But simple -- enough is enough.
RAJU: You know, Rahm, you've --
EMANUEL: You give parents and kids a helping hand.
RAJU: You've been heavily involved in campaigns, of course, over the years. There's so much of an effort about reaching young people on social media. I'm wondering by taking steps like this, banning them in effect. In a way, backfire and trying to woo a critical voting bloc?
EMANUEL: Well, first of all, if people are voting at the age of 13 or 14, they're probably living in Chicago because it's illegal. You can't do that, okay? If that's happening, there's only as -- that's a Chicago tradition.
The second is there are certain things this is about 16 and younger. And if you're worried about another generation, I think what they're looking for is clarity. If you don't like it, don't vote for somebody. But I think it's clearer what the desire is of parents. It's clear what the desire is of other people.
And I actually think this is a serious point about a good serious discussion, about how to ensure certain level of safety. They all have friends that are being affected from a mental-health perspective, let alone their own physical well-being. And I think a good discussion by that, you're going to find a very responsive court.
RAJU: One last question, Rahm. You, of course, are considering a run in 2028.
EMANUEL: Uh-huh.
RAJU: Other potential 2028 contenders have come out with their own ideas on how to deal with social media.
EMANUEL: Sure.
RAJU: You've seen this happen in California with Gavin Newsom, Wes Moore in Maryland. Do you think that their proposals have just now gone far enough?
EMANUEL: Look, they all are -- we're all trying to figure out how to scratch a stitch. I complement them for taking the efforts. I think those, if I may, don't fully kind of get at the comprehensive problem we had here.
I don't fault them for trying. I don't fault them for taking on special interests. I compliment them for that. Here's something very specific and new and different, and it's more, in my view, a bigger step forward in achieving the same goal.
These companies are targeting adolescents for the pure gain of profit. None -- it is both for their physical health, their mental health, and their well-being. It is destructive, and parents have lost control, and they need a helping hand.
RAJU: All right. Rahm Emanuel, thank you so much for joining me from Chicago, the city that I love. Appreciate it.
EMANUEL: Thank you. RAJU: My panel's back here.
So, what do you think? You think it can actually be effective? Can they actually pass something? I mean, Congress can't pass something pretty much but do you think that this is something that can get significant support here?
CUNNINGHAM: I mean, kudos to Rahm Emanuel, 1,000 percent. No notes. I agree with him wholeheartedly like this. I think in decades from now, our kids look back and, like, ask us, what took you so long?
You know, there have been study after study, after study that shows, you know, the links to depression or obesity. You know, my law firm takes on cases where kids are victims of sex distortion. And so the effects and the negative implications of them be on social media is widely documented.
And, you know, of course we can do that. We can have the safeguards in place. I live in South Carolina. You know, I can't put -- place a football bet. You know, because I'm geographically in South Carolina.
So, if we can have safeguards, you know, whether it'd be in our bank accounts or on online sports banning, we can figure this out.
RAJU: And there's significant support. I mean, look at this Quinnipiac poll. Really across party lines and a clear majority, 60 percent of Republicans support the U.S. enacting similar ban here. Democrats, independents, all above 50 percent --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, because if you're a parent like I am of a 13- year-old, you know that you basically feel like you're fighting against Silicon Valley. I mean, in that sense, Rahm Emanuel is completely right. I always say this to parents, you know, who -- I fight more with my daughter over screen time than any other issue, not cleaning a room, not doing her homework, not her friends, not her clothes.
RAJU: Sounds very familiar.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Just this particular issue. And no matter how much I try to explain to her, why I'm trying to stop her from engaging with her phone. She just points to me and says, mom, you're addicted, too. And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
And so, my point about this is we've seen no legislation in this country, on this issue at all. Zero, zero, zero.
Congress has abdicated all responsibility since the Internet came into being of any of this. And the reason why we saw at all the dinners that Donald Trump's giving, which is who's sitting there, who's giving all this money? And that's to both parties. That isn't just to one.
RAJU: It is a very powerful lot.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's a very powerful -- BEUTLER: And they have tried. I mean, that's exactly the point is, on
both sides, they make sure that this is covered. And I know lawmakers who, in this last congress were very, very hard to move the needle on a what I would say to some of these folks is like, this would have been compromise. Like, let's work together and put out in something that has safeguards on it that they can feel, these companies feel good about, but that also protects kids. And they really -- it gets shut down.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It gets shut down.
BEUTLER: Shut down for --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, it gets shut down. And then you're left in this situation where you're just arguing with your kid, but you feel like you're arguing with like, the most powerful companies in the world.
RAJU: Yeah, it is remarkable that, you know, there's a stunning poll out of Pew saying 28 percent of kid -- parents with kids under two say their children use smartphones. Under two -- under two.
CUNNINGHAM: I had to make contact reach out to me, a six-year-old kid who is groomed on social media. Like, the stories you hear right now are horrifying.
RAJU: Yeah.
BEUTLER: I will say, though. There is a point where you and it's harder, the older they get. You know, right now, mine are still little -- I have a 12-year-old, so my oldest we just we take them. They don't have them.
RAJU: And we got to wrap it. There's a lot to discuss there. There's more to discuss as well.
Coming up on THE ARENA. We're keeping our eye on Capitol Hill to see if any lawmakers come out and speak following the private briefing with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. We'll talk to Congressman Ro Khanna, live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:13]
RAJU: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has just left Capitol Hill after briefing the Gang of Eight. Those are the top leaders in the House and Senate. Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, just came out and said he was very unsatisfied with what he heard from the secretary.
Joining me now is Democratic congressman of California, Ro Khanna. He sits on the House Armed Services Committee.
Congressman, thank you so much for being with me. I really appreciate it.
I wanted you listen to what President Trump has said about this double-tap strike. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: These are stone called murderers. But every time we knock out a boat, we save 25,000 American lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So, the president said that 25,000 Americans lives are saved every time a boat is knocked out. So, is he right? I mean, and wouldn't it make this -- these attacks worth it if American lives are truly being saved because of them?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, Manu, the president has gone back and forth on this. The reality is the second strike was against people who were totally defenseless. They had no arms. There were signaling to surrender.
And Pete Hegseth knows that it's a problem. That's why he's trying to throw the admiral under the bus. That is the most cowardly behavior. He needs to brief not just the Gang of Eight. He needs to come before the Armed Services Committee. Take responsibility and have a clear explanation to the American people.
RAJU: You sit on the House Armed Services Committee. Have you seen the video yet of the second strike where the survivors of that initial attack were killed?
KHANNA: I have not yet, but I expect that we should release it. I mean, there again, Pete Hegseth is going back and forth. He was at the Reagan forum, and he said, no, I may not release it.
Get the information out there and explain to the American people why that second strike happened. And more, explain what is the standard for striking these boats.
RAJU: Yeah, because, you know, the Republicans are arguing that these are, as the words in Tom Cotton, the Senate Intelligence Committee chairman, are righteous and lawful strike. He said that these survivors crawled back or trying to crawl back into this boat that they had targeted and were trying to resume drug trafficking.
Could it be right? I mean, if that were the case, wouldn't this be worth it? Try to take out people who are trying to sell drugs in the streets of the United States?
KHANNA: Well, Pete Hegseth should come before the American people and explain that this was the evidence that they felt some imminent risk. And that everyone else has it wrong.
[16:50:00]
And so, why is he not releasing the video? Why isn't he providing the evidence? But the problem is two things. One, that he's blaming an admiral for his action and he's losing the trust of other generals, other admirals at the Pentagon. Two, he's providing no standard for when we strike, and this is an
issue, not just with Democrats. You have Representative Turner. You have Representative Bacon. You have senior Republicans on the armed services committee who are appalled at these strikes without any standards.
RAJU: The president has said that Venezuela and President Nicolas Maduro's days are, quote, numbered would that make these attacks worth it if it eventually forced his ouster?
KHANNA: You know, this is the problem in Washington. The American people keep voting against endless wars. They are tired of the fact that we spend $15 trillion on these endless wars while China is building up its own industry, having a record trade surplus.
And they thought President Trump would end these endless words, end these regime change wars, focus on building up our country. And yet he's being talked by the same hawks, the Lindsey Grahams and others had gotten into his head to try to have another war of regime change in Venezuela. That's not what people voted for.
RAJU: I want to get you a quick reaction to a couple of things. You were just listening to our last segment where Rahm Emanuel was getting behind the idea of a national ban for minors using social media.
You represent Silicon Valley. Would you support an idea of banning kids 16 and younger from using social media?
KHANNA: Well, I introduced the Internet Bill of Rights, and what it would do is introduce a standard of harm so that you couldn't have manipulative algorithms at kids. And that, to me, is the way to go. The band kids completely and enforce it under 13, but to make sure between 13 and 18, kids are able to have access to social media but that they're not being manipulated with algorithms but --
RAJU: But an outright ban, you don't think outright ban, you wouldn't support it?
KHANNA: No, because you got Secretary Clinton and people like Rahm Emanuel saying, young kids don't know what they're doing on Israel and Palestine. They're seeing these TikTok videos and insulting young generation. I believe, actually, young people are informed. I don't think that we need to blame their views on the Middle East, on TikTok.
What we need to do is make sure that people under 13 are protected and that kids aren't being manipulated based on social media.
RAJU: And one other thing, there is a debate of course, within your party about how to get back into power. We're now seeing this play out, actually, in Texas where progressive firebrand Jasmine Crockett is running in the Democratic Senate primary there.
Is she the kind of candidate that the party should get behind and take back to the Senate?
KHANNA: Sure, she's new. You know what we don't need? We don't need 1990s or 2000 folks leading us into the future. We need a new generation. Do we need the old guard to step aside?
We need a new generation who understand modern technology, who understand the issues of the base. And Jasmine is certainly one of those people. And I think she's going to do very well.
RAJU: So you support her? You support her?
KHANNA: I support her. I've worked with her. I support her. But I also -- I mean, I respect Talarico. It should be an open competitive primary, but I like Jasmine, and I'm supporting her.
RAJU: All right. Congressman Ro Khanna, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your views. Really appreciate your time.
KHANNA: Thank you.
RAJU: Coming up, breaking news in the Luigi Mangione case. We'll show you the newest video that CNN has just obtained as the accused killer tries to get key evidence thrown out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:58:09]
RAJU: Breaking news, just coming into CNN, we've just obtained the body camera video of the moment Luigi Mangione, the alleged UnitedHealthcare CEO shooter, what was confronted by police one year ago today.
CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins us now.
John, take us through this video.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, Manu, let's take a look at the video. It starts without sound as you're riding in the police car with the MDT, the mobile data terminal, as they're looking at this call, saying someone in a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania thinks they've spotted the killer whose photograph has been widely circulated. The alleged killer from New York City who shot the head of UnitedHealthcare Brian Thompson as he walked down the street.
So, they're walking in. Now, these kinds of calls, especially when that photograph is widely circulated, are not uncommon, so the officers demeanor is not terribly excited as they walk in. They make a right-hand turn here, and just short of the men's room where they run into the end of the hallway they spot the individual who was sitting alone at a table eating McDonald's tater tots just around this corner. Now let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you put your mask down off the floor? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Appreciate it. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark Rosario.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone called and I thought you were suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you got ID on you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It probably looks like someone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You okay, though?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: So, as he walks away with a driver's license, he's going to get on the radio now. And he's going to run that name in the driver's license.
This is a counterfeit New Jersey driver's license so eventually when that call comes back, he's going to find out Mark Rosario is not who this person is. And they circle back to Luigi. But the remarkable thing about this video is this is the first time we've seen him and heard him talk during this encounter.
RAJU: Yeah, wow. That is some video.
John Miller, thank you so much for bringing that to us.
And thank you for watching.
"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.
