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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Just In: Trump Says U.S. Seized Oil Tanker Off Venezuelan Coast; Trump Defends Economic Polices Amid Frustrations Over Prices; Trump Attacks Immigrants From "Sh*thole Countries" In Economic Speech. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 10, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- little problems.
[16:00:03]
I want to see that when we do well, we're rewarded for doing well. Not the way it's been for the last pretty long period of time.
(CROSSTALK)
REPORTER: Are you asking these finalists to pledge to lower rates if they become the chair?
TRUMP: No. I'll be asking you questions and I'll be able to figure it.
REPORTER: We have three countries sending drugs to the U.S., Mexico, Venezuela, and Colombia. And you talk to the president of Mexico. You already talked to Nicolas Maduro. Have you considered talking to the president of Colombia, who you call a drug leader?
TRUMP: No, I haven't really thought too much about him. He's been fairly hostile to the United States, and I haven't given a lot of thought. He is, he's going to have himself some big problems if he doesn't wise up.
Colombia is producing a lot of drugs. They have cocaine factories that they make cocaine, as you know, and they sell it right into the United States. So, he better wise up or he'll be next. He'll be next, too. I hope he's listening. He's going to be next.
Yes?
REPORTER: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Because we don't like people when they kill people. And they sell drugs, they kill them in the United States. And Colombia is a major manufacturer of drugs, cocaine in particular, as you know.
REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Thank you.
REPORTER: Multiple House Republicans in recent weeks, days, have been critical of Speaker Mike Johnson. I wanted to ask you if you're still confident in the speaker to keep his conference together ahead of the midterms, and how often are you speaking about?
TRUMP: I think Mike Johnson is great. You know, he's had a majority of two, three, four, then back to two. We actually had one. So, we were one heart attack away from disaster. So, everybody prayed for everybody's health.
I think Mike Johnson has been a fantastic speaker. I've been a very hard job because, you know, when you have a small majority and we got the biggest bill in the history of our country approved the great Big, Beautiful Bill. I call it the great Big, Beautiful Bill. There are different names for it, but to me, it's a great Big, Beautiful Bill because it gives the biggest tax cuts in history, the biggest regulation cuts in history, no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime.
I think Mike Johnson has been a great speaker. I think few people could have done that job.
REPORTER: Do you want to see another big package move through Capitol Hill the next year?
TRUMP: Well, we don't need it because we got everything. You know, this was supposed to be 17 bills, and I think it was my idea. But, you know, with the concurrence of people that have done this a long time. And I said, why don't we make it one bill? Because it's very hard to get things approved by the Democrats.
And it worked out because there was something good for everybody. If we would have done 17 bills, we wouldn't have gotten a third of them approved. It was something great for everybody. And the one, you know, the great Big, Beautiful Bill,
Go ahead.
REPORTER: Yes. Good to see you, Nr. President. I follow up on the event last night in Pennsylvania. Huge crowd turned out there. Big crowd. It seemed like rally Trump was in prime condition last night. You enjoyed it.
You can just give me your thoughts on that then. I do have a question on the gold card.
TRUMP: Last night was amazing, in Pennsylvania. We had a tremendous crowd. It was like freezing. And the people, the thousands of people on the sidewalk trying to get in on the streets, it was an amazing evening, actually, and I think people really enjoyed it, I enjoyed it, you could tell that.
REPORTER: I could tell that you enjoyed it.
TRUMP: I enjoyed it, I really did.
Well, you know, it's easy to enjoy when you do a good job and you know, when you can talk about things in a very positive way. It's hard not to say we have potentially the greatest economic boom in the history of the world. It's being built right now. And when it opens, there will be nothing ever in history like what's happening in our country.
And, you know, Washington, D.C. is safe and Memphis is now -- look at Memphis. Crime is down 60 percent in Memphis. We just got there three weeks ago. And we're going to have New Orleans. New Orleans was -- was just sent a group of people there. And crime is down 28 -- 28 percent in about three days.
You know we do a good job, you know. And these are central casting people. These people are -- they're very tough people if they have to be. They're very good. They're great patriots, but they are the toughest.
And, they don't take any nonsense. And every place we go, we knock down crime. Too bad that we're not invited more into Chicago because we could save Chicago very quickly. But even that, we're doing it on a minimal basis until, you know, at some point well just go in and do what we have to do.
If the governor doesn't wise up, they've got a bad governor, they have a bad mayor. I would say they're both incompetent, but it's hard to believe that people don't want to stop crime. We could stop the crime in Chicago in about two weeks.
Go ahead.
REPORTER: My question is on the on the gold card. I apologize if I missed the answer to this. Is there a limit to how many gold cards these companies can buy?
[16:05:03]
TRUMP: Howard?
HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: So, the program is part of the already approved visas. So we're just going to have great people come into this country. You know, the average green card holder earned less than the average American. So, they were more likely to be on the dole and be on our assistance programs than average Americans. And the idea is from President Trump. He wants to raise it, bring in the best people into America.
So, same visas. But now, just full of the best people.
TRUMP: Basically, it's a green card, but much better, much more powerful, a much stronger path. And a path is a big deal. Have to be great people, but much stronger path.
And it also, in addition to that helps companies because not only for companies, but if IBM gets somebody number one in his class at the Wharton School of Finance and you're dying to get the person, but you can't guarantee the person stays in the country, because oftentimes they'll say, I'm sorry, sir, you got to get out of here. You have 24 hours, right? And you say, where's my employee now? IBM can buy a card and that employee can be there for essentially a
very long period of time.
REPORTER: Mr. President --
TRUMP: It's so needed for the companies. You know, it's needed for others. But really, it's basically a much better form of a green card. And you can't get green cards. They are impossible to get. This is much better than a green card.
Yeah?
REPORTER: Did you tell Bruce Blakeman not to run for governor or that you should think about not running for governor?
TRUMP: No, I haven't spoken to -- first of all, he's a friend. She's a friend. These are two great people running in a way. I hate to see them running against each other. I hope they're not going to be damaging each other.
But Elise is fantastic, and Bruce is. They're two fantastic people. And, I always hate it when two very good friends of mine are running. And I hope there's not a lot of damage done.
Sometimes it works the other way. The victor ends up being much stronger because of it. A lot of times that happens in politics.
REPORTER: You said a couple of months out you see you perform well --
TRUMP: I think in New York, we have a convention toward the end of February, and I think you'll know pretty much at the end of February what's going to happen. And I'll probably have to, you know, do what I want to do. But I hope he's running now, as you know. And she's running.
We have two very talented people. Either one should win against the Democrats.
REPORTER: Mr. President, story focuses on one of your cabinet members predicting that you're going to fire this one, are you going to get rid of that? Among your cabinet members, who would you perceive as the most under attack?
TRUMP: Well, I think my cabinet is fantastic. I read the same stories that I'm unhappy with this one or that one, and I'm not. I think the cabinet has done a great job.
I read a story that I was unhappy with Pete because he was attacking drug dealers. I said, that's not exactly right. I would say very much the opposite. Pete Hegseth has been phenomenal.
I read a story recently I'm unhappy with Kristi. I'm so happy with her. I mean, we have a closed border. We have a border that's the best border in the history of our country. Why would I be unhappy? She's fantastic, actually.
No, we have a fantastic cabinet, really fantastic cabinet. I mean, I'll have to think about it. No.
REPORTER: You can't have everything.
TRUMP: Can't have everything.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yeah, he's doing great. Well, Howard's done really well, and Scott's done really well. We have just a fantastic cabinet.
I'll tell you who's doing a great job is Linda McMahon. We're bringing education back to the states where it belongs. Education is going -- we can't do any worse than were doing right now. And let the states run it.
You know, if you go back to some of our states that have run so well, so good, I would say 40 of them. And then you'll have trouble with five and you'll have bigger trouble with another five. But you have 35 or 40 states that will run education as good as Norway or Denmark, Sweden.
We have some, you know, the heads of the list are Denmark, Norway, Sweden, a few others. I think if you go to Iowa and you go to Indiana and you go to, I can name a lot of states, I think it would be almost the equivalent to maybe better, but you can't run a school system in Iowa from Washington, D.C.
Yeah?
REPORTER: Sir, the Gaza plan. What do you expect to announce, members of the board or the leadership of that?
TRUMP: Well, we'll do it early next year. And the board of peace are going to -- it will be one of the most legendary boards ever. Everybody wants to be on it. It's mostly going to be, I guess, you know, we weren't thinking about it that way, but they want it all do it.
Basically, it will be the heads of the most important countries.
REPORTER: Mr. President --
TRUMP: They all want to be on. It wasn't really planned. You know, we thought we were going to get very distinguished people that do that kind of thing for a living. But really, it looks like it's turning out to be they want to be on the heads. The kings and the presidents, prime ministers. They all want to be on the board of peace.
REPORTER: Mr. President, this is on last night's rally. Can you clarify? You have called the affordability crisis as a Democratic hoax, but you also want to make America affordable again.
TRUMP: No. The word -- the word that they use is a hoax. And because they're the ones that caused the problem, I'm only -- no, I'm talking about when you, you know, you're trying to say it a different way. And it's pretty simple, though, if you listen. It's a hoax where they created the problem. They're the ones that gave the high prices. So when they use the word affordability, they shouldn't be using that word because they're the ones that created this problem.
They created the highest inflation in history, and they created the highest prices in history. And now, we have to get those things down. But what they go, they look and they say affordability. They never discuss it. They just say the election is about affordability.
Well, it may very well be. I think it's also about still the border. You have to remember the job. You know, the sad thing is for seven months, we've had no people come through our border. Nobody can even believe it. Zero people.
And the people that do that are largely Democrats, which the people that do the stats, we've had no people come in other than coming in legally. But if you take a look and nobody wants to talk about that.
In fact, last night I said, let me talk about the border. My own people tell me, sir, nobody cares about the border anymore. Youve fixed the problem, I said, do I get a little credit for fixing a disaster where millions of people a month would flow into our country and, you know, from prisons and from gangs and from drug dealers and mental institutions?
They say, sir, you fix the border. Nobody cares, I say, but I care. It's sad when you fix something and then you can't even use it. You can't talk about it.
My own people don't want to talk about it anymore. But, the very simply, the Democrats created the worst crisis of inflation that this country has ever had. And with that came the highest prices that we've ever had. And I'm fixing it.
REPORTER: Mr. President, has Secretary Hegseth told you why he hasn't released the video of the second strike?
TRUMP: No, he hasn't. I thought that issue was dead. I'm not surprised you're bringing him. You must be -- you must be CNN.
REPORTER: Lawmakers are still talking --
TRUMP: Are you CNN?
REPORTER: -- on the hill?
TRUMP: Are you CNN?
REPORTER: I am with CNN.
TRUMP: Why don't you? I'm shocked to find out.
REPORTER: The lawmakers are still talking about it on the Hill.
TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you, I don't know about lawmakers. Which lawmakers are you talking about?
REPORTER: Democrats talking about trying to release it.
TRUMP: You mean the people that you work for? The Democrats -- you know, you work for the Democrats, don't you? You're basically an arm of the Democrat Party.
Thank you very much, everybody. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: So, call me if we can --
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
We've been listening to President Trump taking questions at the White House. And there was some news made on a couple of fronts, most notably perhaps confirming that the U.S. has seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. We're going to dig into that in just a second.
He also talked about the day's big economic news. He said the Federal Reserve didn't go far enough in that interest rate cut that they issued today. He says it should have been doubled.
So, let's go back to, of course, what we have just been learning over the course of the last hour, which is that the United States has seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. Now, the president also said he was asked whether what would happen to the oil in this tanker. He said, we'll keep it. I guess. He also wouldn't confirm where the tanker was coming from.
All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
We're joined by White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno-Youngs; national political reporter at "Axios", Alex Thompson, both CNN political analysts. We're also joined by CNN political commentator Xochitl Hinojosa and the former Republican congressman from Michigan, Peter Meijer.
Welcome to all of you.
And, Zolan, you, of course, covered this president for "The Times".
[16:15:00]
This a notable potential escalation here.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure.
HUNT: I think it's important that we underscore that we're still at the very beginning stages of learning what's exactly happened here. We just know that the president did confirm that an oil tanker has been seized.
KANNO-YOUNGS: That he did. And two U.S. officials also tell my colleagues that this oil tanker was seized by the coast guard off the coast of Venezuela as well. But we're still looking to get more details at this time. It comes after weeks of escalation by the administration towards Venezuela, as well as mixed messages over its approach.
We've both had the president say that he spoke to Maduro, while also, you know, seemingly making threats of moving these strikes against vessels in the Caribbean to land. We have not seen that yet. Of course, while also authorizing potential CIA covert action against Venezuela.
Up until now, there have been, you know, these competing sides in the administration, those who say that these actions are more so to build leverage for -- to potentially seize more rights to the oil reserves in Venezuela. Venezuela has 17 percent of the world's oil, or those who are actually looking to remove Maduro from office. We have those two competing factions, and in the meantime, we've seen each step of escalation at a time where, by the way, these actions are also prompting even more scrutiny from members of Congress.
HUNT: Yeah. All right. Let's go to CNNs senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes, who you heard just there in the room questioning the president.
Kristen, what more can you tell us about what we know, what we don't know, particularly on the seizure of this oil tanker?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, the president was very vague. He was asked a number of questions and would not answer almost anything other than to say, essentially, that they needed to seize it. They have a reason for seizing it and that we learn more information from specific people, assuming that would likely be from the Pentagon or any number of different cabinet branches that were involved in this, because we have not heard again from the White House.
The specific questions that were asked were, where was that tanker heading? No information on that. Who owned the tanker? He seemed to only want to give the headlines of what actually occurred, just the seizing of it. But none of the actual details, even if this was part of a larger pressure campaign against Maduro, which, of course, we believe it to be.
I also asked if he had spoken to Maduro since his last conversation. He said no. The reason being that one of our own reporters had caught up with Maduro earlier today and wouldn't answer the question of whether or not he had spoken to Trump a second time. So, we were trying to get to the bottom of that as well.
It does certainly seem as though this is the maximum escalation campaign or pressure campaign against Maduro. And I really do think we should go back to what Zolan was just saying, because that's really what you're hearing inside the White House as well. You have a faction of people for whom everything is about getting Maduro out of power. You have another faction of people where there's a lot of talk about a deal, deal with oil and deal with gold in particular when it comes to some of the minerals and gems that that Venezuela has.
They seem to have come together with the same goal, which is to get Maduro out of power, which would be, for these two groups, the best of both of these worlds, getting them people in power who have said they want to work with America, they want to do business deals with America, as well as then having maduro not leaving -- leading that country.
HUNT: Yeah. Kristen, thanks very much for that reporting.
Let's watch a little bit of what happened there with the president. The -- where he made these comments confirming that this tanker has been seized. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As you probably know, we've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela, a large tanker, very large, largest one ever seized actually. And other things are happening. So, you'll be seeing that later, and you'll be talking about that later with some other people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Our panel is still here.
Congressman Meijer, can you talk a little bit about the significance of doing this? You know, you were someone who has served the country in various capacities.
PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER MICHIGAN CONGRESSMAN: Yeah. I also just two quick things on this. Reuters was also reporting that this vessel had also been accused of violating Iranian sanctions. Kind of gives a little bit of a heads up on the broad shadow network, on the illicit oil trafficking here.
But in addition to the seizure being the first kind of real, tangible action that's been taken, there were photos that surfaced on the Internet earlier today of about a dozen EA-18G Growler electronic warfare attack aircraft. Now these are used to suppress enemy air defenses, to disrupt enemy communications. They're what you do in the initial wave of an attack to protect friendly aircraft and to make it harder for the enemy to respond. So combined with this action --
HUNT: I'm sure these images were not A.I. I want to underscore that you're talking about things you've seen on the Internet.
MEIJER: This is --
[16:20:00]
HUNT: I want to make sure we're not talking about something that we're not reporting here.
MEIJER: But not a surprising development at all given the rotations. This is a Roosevelt Roads Air Base down in Puerto Rico.
HUNT: Okay. Fair enough.
Alex Thompson, the politics of this, there's obviously different pressures on the president from different angles here inside the White House.
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. I mean, there are definitely some parts of the right that don't agree with this escalation, that really think that it contradicts the America first. That's why you have some parts of the administration talk about getting oil or for gold, because that would somehow fit into the America First narrative, because there is a benefit.
But you are seeing some forces inside the administration resist this escalation. Also, knowing that there is a history of when you put a huge part of the navy in the Caribbean, which it is now in, you have like the Gulf of Tonkin, you have the Lusitania. There are ways where violence can get out of hand, and then you are in a conflict area.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, and also, I just want to say that congress is going to be asking a lot of questions, not only about this, they're already asking questions about the video. And I think it's interesting, as was just pointed out in the reporting, is that Trump didn't have a lot to say about this, which is typical with what is happening in Venezuela.
There doesn't (AUDIO GAP) why there's so much angst in -- with Congress right now, because he goes out to make headlines like he said, you know, we seize this big, big oil tanker. We, you know, went ahead. And whether it was -- whether it was missiles that were shot at the boat, like there are all of those things, he wants the headlines but isn't giving an explanation about his strategy.
MEIJER: He wants Maduro out.
HUNT: Right. Let's push pause on this because speaking of Congress and all of this news, joining us now in THE ARENA to discuss, Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts, Jake Auchincloss. He also happens to have commanded counter-narcotics special operations in Panama.
While, sir, you served in the Marines. Thanks very much for being here.
I'd like to just get your initial reaction to this. The president confirming that the U.S. has seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. We haven't confirmed many more details than that.
REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): Thanks for having me on.
I can't comment on the president's statement about the seized oil tanker, because I don't know if that tanker was seized as part of Iranian oil smuggling interdiction, which is legitimate (AUDIO GAP) or blood for oil campaign in Venezuela, which is illegal. Now, all this administration's actions against Venezuela is that there's not a strategic gloss to it, that, in fact, this is just crony capitalism. And the president and his henchmen want the world's largest oil reserves under their control. A Republican president did this 20 years ago in Iraq, where he went in claiming democracy, actually wanted the oil. It was a disaster. Congress needs to prevent this disaster from repeating.
HUNT: So in the event that this again, is part of an illegal campaign, and I do very much appreciate you laying out kind of the two different roadmaps that we could be looking at here. In the event that this is part of that broader Maduro pressure campaign, what do you think the reaction will be from our allies, for example, who have raised eyebrows at what has already been done?
AUCHINCLOSS: Our allies are not going to support any further actions against Venezuela that fall outside of legitimate law enforcement operations to interdict cocaine smuggling, or that presume that a state of war exists between the United States and Venezuela, that somehow empowers the president to summarily execute people on sailing craft. Great Britain is not going to support that. Canada is not going to support that. And the United States Congress should not support that.
There's a lot of Republicans here who are grumbling privately. I need them to take bold action publicly, not just because it's the right thing to do, but also because their own base demands it. Military adventurism in the jungles of Central and South America is not going to be popular with Americans.
I have put boots on the ground there. I can tell you that it's going to be gnarly warfare, and it's not something that Americans subscribe to.
HUNT: Sir, speaking of that service that you have, I mean, is there a world, considering your understanding, far deeper than my own, certainly, of what a drug -- counter-drug counter-narcotics operation is going to look like for an oil tanker to be seized in the course of that? How does that fit in?
AUCHINCLOSS: Well, it doesn't, which is why I presume this is blood for oil. But to your question about what is a successful drug interdiction strategy look like? Well, it's twofold. First of all, helpful to know where the drugs are actually coming from. So, if you're worried about fentanyl, it's China, not Central or South America. Ninety-eight percent of fentanyl precursors come from the Chinese mainland.
I had bipartisan legislation last Congress to effectively interdict that fentanyl through sanctions on the manufacturers, through docking fees and inspections of manifests through a joint task force. This had Republican support. The president has discarded it. If he's serious about fentanyl, he should pick it up and execute on it.
And then in Central and South America, where cocaine is the challenge, you got to work with your allies, the Panamanians, the Colombians in particular, are superb jungle and riverine patrollers. And we need to be empowering them rather than stomping on their prerogative.
HUNT: And finally, sir, the president was also asked again about releasing the footage of that so-called "double-tap" strike on the drug boat in early September, and he dismissed those calls again to release the footage.
[16:25:10]
Where does it stand? And is your understanding that your Republican colleagues, who had previously been putting pressure, as you say, on the administration, to release that, have they stepped back from that?
AUCHINCLOSS: I think Secretary of State Rubio talked the Republicans down in Congress is my understanding of what happened, which is a shame, because secretary Hegseth is claiming fog of war for his decision to order that double tap that is offensive to individuals who have actually had to make decisions under the duress and confusion of combat. He was sitting in a airconditioned conference room with high quality video feed coming in. There was no fog of war. He made a decision he needs to be accountable for that decision.
HUNT: So, sir, the question about Marco Rubio. You say that you believe that he talked down Republican, what he said (AUDIO GAP).
AUCHINCLOSS: I think he spoke to the Gang of Eight. I think he spoke to senior defense and intelligence Republicans in Congress and Democrats. He by far has the most credibility in Congress on national security matters and I think Secretary Rubio put his reputation on the line to tell them to walk back their public commentary. Now, I don't know that firsthand, but that is my strong impression.
And I think it's a shame because he does have credibility, but he's going to burn it all up if he covers for actions outside of the law.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Jake Auchincloss, thank you very much for your time, sir. I really appreciate it.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the presidents been pushing the Fed to cut rates, now upset they didn't cut rates more here. More of what he just said about the economy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:06]
HUNT: All right. Markets on Wall Street have just closed. They're reacting positively to a quarter point interest rate cut by the Fed today. The president just moments ago in the White House said they didn't go far enough. They could have been doubled, at least in his view.
After the Fed vote, Chairman Jerome Powell warned the president's tariffs are at the heart of the affordability crisis, causing some of the price increases.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Inflation has eased significantly from its highs in mid-2022, but remains somewhat elevated relative to our two percent longer run goal. These readings are higher than earlier in the year as inflation for goods has picked up, reflecting the effects of tariffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That warning coming just as President Trump launches a new effort to convince the American people that he is laser-focused on the economy and affordability.
Let's check in on how that's been going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Let me tell you, Black people love Trump. I got the biggest vote. I got the biggest vote with Black people.
Typically, crooked Joe wins. I'm surprised because to me he's a sleepy son of a bitch, you know?
He looks like The Rock. You look like The Rock. Stand up. Let me see what you look like.
You know, I have fun, I have fun. I haven't read practically anything off the stupid teleprompter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That was in Pennsylvania last night, standing in front of a giant sign reading lower prices, bigger paychecks. The topic was supposed to be affordability. In fairness to the president, the bulk of his speech was dedicated to economic issues and policies. But at times, he seemed to mock the very idea that millions of Americans say they're struggling to get by.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But they have a new word. You know, they always have a hoax. The new word is affordability. So, they look at the camera and they say, this election is all about affordability. I can't say affordability hoax because I agree the prices were too high. So, I can't go to hoax because they'll misconstrue that.
But they use the word affordability and that's their only word. They say affordability. And everyone says, oh, that must mean Trump has high prices. No, our prices are coming down tremendously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. My panel is back.
Alex Thompson, it's an interesting admission there that he says that he can't use the word hoax. They'll misconstrue it because he has been calling it a hoax. THOMPSON: Well, he is hitting up against the limits of the power of
positive thinking, you know? I -- like --
HINOJOSA: And the nice way of putting it.
THOMPSON: And the man that coined that phrase popularized it, Norman Vincent Peale, did officiate Trump's first wedding. It has been really the doctrine.
HUNT: This is why we invite you on this show, Alex, to share such tidbits.
THOMPSON: Well, and it has been his defining, you know, ethos, not just in politics but in business is to always claim that the economy or anything else is the best, the biggest, the A-plus-plus-plus-plus- plus, and you know, you are seeing his aides really get in his face behind closed doors and say, you have to admit that there is a problem and not just say everything's great.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Right. It's positive thinking, but it's also blaming his predecessor. And at some point, you know, voters get tired of that. It actually was similar with the biden administration, too. They often blamed supply chain issues and the pandemic and said Trump had -- you know, they still have to rebuild government in order to put forth their policies.
We see this over and over again, where voters express their frustrations with the economy and political leaders. Instead of empathizing with those concerns, they basically say, well, what do you mean? The economy is great, right? The rhetoric and the way they do it may be different, but it's actually very similar at this point with both of these two people in office.
HUNT: Congressman, you've run campaigns yourself. You know how hard it is to convince voters that what they can see in their own, you know, checkbook is not actually happening.
[16:35:02]
MEIJER: At a certain point, the rhetoric has to keep pace with reality. If that gap becomes too large, there's a reckoning. And folks wonder why.
I mean, yes, the tariffs are playing a role here. I will say wage growth has been outstripping inflation just for the last couple of trailing 12-month averages. So, this is not doom and gloom. We're in a much better place than we were.
But the challenge with the Trump administration is a lot of the good things that he's been doing for the economy were already baked in by virtue of his election, and so he only has the areas where if he is not pushing forward hard, he's just going to fall back relative to where those expectations are, relative to where the voters expect him to be.
The reality behind a lot of the tariffs, and how he has used those to try to shape trade negotiations, could be very beneficial for the U.S. in the long term. The challenge is conveying to the public that there will be some short-term pain because of that. Now, again, wages are outstripping inflation. So, this is not something that is creating massive affordability crises outside of areas like health care, where again, if I'm the president, I am frustrated and I may call it a hoax because of the fact that the Affordable Care Act is at the crux of the unaffordability of health care today.
So, he has inherited a lot of problems. The problem is, he needs to step up to the plate in terms of offering some of those solutions, because when you go past a year in office and you're still blaming the predecessor, folks say, well, what have you done for me lately?
HUNT: Yeah. Look, I take your point that he has pushed his economic policies. You know, he's tried to underscore them. He certainly there is blame to go around from his predecessors.
But I want to just refresh everyone. We're heading, we're what, 15 days from Christmas? Hanukkah starts before that. The holiday season is upon us, and Americans are trying to buy gifts for their kids.
The president has not been terribly forgiving when he has talked to people about what their options are going to be here. We pulled together, you know, the things that the president has said. I mean, let's watch it. You decide if he's Santa or the Grinch. Look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Every child can get 37 pencils. They only need one or two. You know, they don't need that many. But you always need -- you always need steel.
You don't need 37 dolls for your daughter. Two or three is nice, but you don't need 37 dolls.
I'm just saying they don't need to have 30 dolls. They can have three.
The young lady, 10-year-old girl, nine-year-old girl, 15-year-old girl doesn't need 37 dolls.
Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls, you know? And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Just you don't -- you don't need all the dolls. You only need two or three dolls. I mean, Xochitl Hinojosa, I don't know if you've done your Christmas -- your holiday shopping yet. It's our -- our economic team says basically spending is up, but people are getting less for their money because all the prices are up.
And setting aside the fact that I'm not sure that a 15-year-old girl mostly wants a doll, I think they basically want iPhones.
HINOJOSA: Yeah. HUNT: Which I think are also getting more expensive.
HINOJOSA: Yeah, right.
HUNT: But this kind of mess like I don't -- I've covered politics for long enough to find this messaging confusing. Can I put it that way? Yes.
HINOJOSA: Well, what I also find confusing is that at the same time, Susie Wiles is saying that Donald Trump is Republicans' biggest asset ahead of the midterm elections. If you are a Republican in a swing district and that is your message to people right now. Oh, you don't have to buy pencils. You don't have to buy things for your family. You know, these are the holidays. People want to be able to afford something for their grandchildren. They want to be able to live comfortably.
And two thirds of Americans right now are worried about costs. And 75 percent of voters are blaming Trump. So, his message is not working. So, if you are a Republican in a swing congressional district in a purple state, whatever that is, I look at -- if you're looking to November, you're like, hey, I don't want Trump campaigning with me right now. I've got this.
And frankly, I probably need to criticize Trump a little bit, saying he hasn't brought down costs in order to win that district. And so, I just find it funny that the White House is sort of doubling down on this when I'm not sure that is the sentiment of Republicans around the country in swing districts.
HUNT: So, since we're talking about this at the table and also in the text chain, let's show what Susie Wiles had to say on this podcast about what Trump should do. And then, Alex, you can weigh in. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSIE WILES, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Typically, you in the midterms, it's not about who's sitting at the White House. It's you localize the election and you and you keep the federal officials out of it. We're actually going to turn that on its head.
HOST: Good.
WILES: And put him on the ballot, because so many of those low propensity voters are Trump voters.
HOST: Yeah.
WILES: I haven't quite broken it to him yet, but he's going to campaign like it's 2024 again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Alex, that's smart politics? THOMPSON: I mean, it's incredibly risky bet. And it's so different
from what the Democrats did, including in 2022, which is, you know, Nancy Pelosi told all of her frontline members, run away from Joe Biden.
[16:40:02]
Run away from me. Feel free to bash us, because if that helps you in your district.
And Susie Wiles is right, usually that's what you do. If you're going to nationalize a midterm election, it is incredibly risky move when you have an incumbent at 40 percent approval rating.
HUNT: Yeah. Zolan?
KANNO-YOUNGS: I also just think it's interesting that and the president mentioned this in when he was just taking questions. His aides keep telling him, you got to talk about this issue. You got to talk about the proposals we're putting forth. We've seen that during the campaign, too. He doesn't do it. He often goes into talking about retribution and immigration.
And when he's feeling pressure on the economy, he goes to those favorite red meat issues. I'm not sure that's going to translate to voters, too.
HUNT: Yeah, fair enough.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, more on the president's speech last night, including what the House speaker is now telling CNN about the president's comments on, quote, S-hole countries.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've also announced a permanent pause on third world migration, including from hellholes like Afghanistan, Haiti, Somalia and many other countries.
I didn't say shithole. You did.
Remember I said that to the senators?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Well, making what was intended to be an economic speech in Pennsylvania last night, President Trump made several detours to continue his attacks against Minnesota's Somali population and settling a nearly eight year-long controversy over whether he once referred to Haiti and African nations as, quote, "S-hole countries".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: The country was going to hell and we had a meeting and I say, why is it we only take people from shithole countries, right? Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden, just a few, let us have a few? From Denmark, do you mind sending us a few people? Send us some nice people. Do you mind?
But we always take people from Somalia, places that are a disaster, right? Filthy, dirty, disgusting, ridden with crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, there you have it. He just laid it out there. This was eight years after, Zolan Kanno-Youngs, he denied ever having said this. I mean, they put out on Twitter at the time, quote, "The language used by me at the DACA meeting," which is a reference to where this happened, was tough, but this was not the language used.
I mean, I remember covering this the day it went down in Washington and calling people that were in that meeting and confirming that this was the language that he had used. But we were talking in the commercial break and bring our viewers into that conversation. I mean, it is remarkably different now than it was then in terms of how open he is about just saying this out loud.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yeah, that's right. I think this moment shows just how emboldened they are at this point. The White House is. And the president he has long made xenophobic and insulting derogatory comments about immigrants, mostly from African and Middle Eastern countries, and the difference in term two is increasingly those comments are made in the open. They're made out loud. The quiet part is now said out loud.
You know, the previous -- in term one, you know what you were referring to that meeting that had to be reported. It had to be broken, right? It was in private. For this, that xenophobic rant against Somalis last week was during a cabinet meeting. He looked into the camera at the end and went off on it, while his vice president hit the table to almost amp him up and energize him in support of what he was saying.
Increasingly, the quiet part is out loud and it translate to policy, too. to last. You know, in the first term, he mused about shutting the door to refugees and allowing white South Africans in, white Afrikaners. That is now policy. The door for refugees is shut to everyone in the world except for white South Africans.
He has deployed the National Guard into cities. You know, he has pursued mass deportations. So, it's not just rhetoric either. They're emboldened both in policy and in saying the quiet part out loud.
HINOJOSA: Yeah, and I think that's a fair point, is that they're trying to normalize this sort of rhetoric. And at the time, it was a big deal. And I think the reality is, is that Trump has always wanted to stop migration and kick the brown and black people out of this country. And "The New York Times" had reported at the time their plans to
potentially do this, and he needed to find some sort of excuse to do it. And he used the shooting, the terrible, tragic shooting of the two National Guard members in order to put forward sort of Stephen Miller's agenda of trying to keep sort of the brown and black people out of this country.
And so, I mean, this is what his agenda is all about. This is what Stephen Miller and him have sort of concocted from the beginning. This is what he wanted to do in his first term. Now he sort of feels that he can do all of this in his second term.
And it is just -- and that is, I think, why you see his polling on immigration tank in a way. And I'm not saying from Republicans. I do think Republicans actually appreciate some of this stuff, and that's what he promised. But it's not just criminals. This is -- these are families. These are people who have been here for a long time. And he -- he's not holding up to his promise.
MEIJER: I mean, it was the shooting, but it was also the recent reporting and unveiling of that billion dollar plus fraud taking place in Minnesota among the Somali community, the Medicare fraud, which is both state and federal dollars that are matched, you know, close to $1 billion, you know, through fraudulent receipts, fraudulent you know, claims many, much of which went back in form of remittances to Somalia, which also likely went to al-Shabab militants.
[16:50:02]
HINOJOSA: Well, but you know this, in order to keep the bad guys out, you make decisions based on intelligence and you make decisions based on, you know, the intel that you have to and, and kick those bad people out, arrest them, et cetera. Prosecute them in the United States.
That's not what he wants to do. He doesn't want to take the bad people out. He wants the brown and black people out. That's what he is saying. And so, and this is what he's doing with his deportations. And it's not necessarily people who are just dangerous. He's trying to go through legal immigration as well and go after people who are here with status.
HUNT: I want to make this a little bit more of a big picture conversation for the congressman, but I'm going to -- I'm going to read Zolan's reporting and writing to do that. So, in "The New York Times", Zolan writes this, quote, "Mr. Trump has seized on immigration as a potent political weapon, demonizing immigrants, equating them with crime and disease. He often returns most furiously to the topic when he is on the defensive, as he is now over issues like the economy and the Epstein files.
I mean, can we read this, Congressman, as the president, understanding that, you know what, he's got a lot of problems elsewhere, and he'd rather focus on, you know, this is a politician who is very good at inciting anger in people, right? And using it for his own political reasons. Is that what he's doing here? MEIJER: Or reminding the voters of why they put him in office in the first place, because of frustration of the immigration policies under the Biden administration? I mean, number one was the border and just the absolute chaos that was there.
I just read "The New York Times" reporting, because now, finally, it can be said that the administration under President Biden, they were trying to get through to President Biden, that this is a problem for you. This is not going well, right? Similar problems under any administration. But he just allowed that problem to fester to the point where voters were so frustrated that it became a dominant issue.
Now, again, they voted in Trump to solve the border issue. Trump solved the border issue. He wants to take credit for that. You heard that in the meeting earlier, and he deserves credit for that.
The challenge is this is an area where still, no specifics on deportation raids when it comes to nonviolent folks, there's some slipping of support. But when it comes to deporting violent criminals, when it comes to going after the folks who are engaging in massive fraud rings that are defrauding the American taxpayer, the president is playing to where his strengths are and where his popularity -- popularity is still high.
THOMPSON: Things did get so out of control during the Biden years that you actually have seen a huge part of the Republican Party now actually go to the right of where Trump is on immigration. It's part of the reason why he feels so free to say what he was only willing to say publicly eight years ago, because there is a segment of the Republican Party that no longer just wants to deport undocumented illegal immigrants. They actually want to stop all illegal immigration or just only have legal immigration from people willing to buy gold cards, as we saw earlier in the show or basically come from white European countries.
HUNT: So, one of the people that has obviously come into focus as the president has launched these attacks against the communities broadly, is Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. She is, of course, a progressive member of the so-called Squad in the House of Representatives. Here was the president last night in Pennsylvania talking about her directly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I love this Ilhan Omar, whatever the hell her name is, with the little showing, the little turban. I love her, she comes in, does nothing but bitch. She's always complaining. She comes from a country where -- I mean, it's considered about the worst country in the world. We ought to get her the hell out. She married her brother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I think since we let the president say that about her, lets also play what Ilhan Omar said in response to those comments that the president made about her. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I'm not shocked because we know that the president oftentimes resorts to very bigoted, xenophobic, Islamophobic, racist rhetoric when he is trying to scapegoat and deflect from the actual failures that he has himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, I should point out that was actually from earlier in the month, not directly to last night's comments, but Zolan kind of the big picture sentiment still stands.
KANNO-YOUNGS: Yeah, it does, it does. And we have seen more of these rants of bigotry from him, particularly when he's talking about Somalis. The fraud situation in Minneapolis and Minnesota is worth highlighting. But I do think it's important to note he's been talking about Ilhan Omar and Somalis long before that investigation occurred. And when he's gone on these rants, I haven't heard him specifically focus on undocumented Somalis. I've heard him talk about Somali Americans and a majority of Somalis in Minnesota are American citizens.
So, I mean, there isn't that that difference that he's making here. This is a continuation of a pattern we've seen of him targeting this specific population.
HUNT: The House Speaker Mike Johnson also considering his background as an evangelical in a little bit of a funny spot, because, as you'll note, he doesn't talk like this. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:55:01]
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: That's not the way I speak. And you know that. But the president is expressing his frustration about the extraordinary challenge that is presented to America when you have people coming in, not assimilating and trying to take over the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Alex, where do you think the political line is here? Because clearly, the president has used these issues to effect for himself in the past. But also, Americans have often shown that there's a line for them.
THOMPSON: I mean, well, we saw that there was a backlash, particularly in parts of the especially the Latino neighborhoods in New Jersey. And that gubernatorial election, you saw an enormous shift in that election. And a lot of those voters have gone for Trump last time. Now, I would also say that we just don't actually know how much of that's about affordability versus a backlash to the immigration enforcement.
HUNT: Fair enough.
All right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks very much to all of you for watching. Thanks to my panel as well.
Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
