Return to Transcripts main page
CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Susie Wiles Calls Out Trump, Vance, & Bondi In Vanity Fair Interviews; Los Angeles Officials Update On Reiner Killings; New: Police Release Photo Of Person Of Interest In Brown Shooting; Hegseth: Full Video Of Double-Tap Boat Strike Won't Be Released. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 16, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very little trust there.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's right.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Well, we'll see if potentially in the next 48 hours or so something changes and DOJ reaches out to these women. They should, right?
MJ Lee, thank you so much for your reporting. Appreciate it.
Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.
It's wonderful to have you with us on this Tuesday. As we come on the air, we are standing by for a news conference where they are going to outline the latest details on the investigation into the tragic deaths of Rob Reiner and Michele Singer Reiner. Their son Nick is in custody. Police have said he is responsible. We will bring you that news conference live as soon as it happens.
But while we wait for that, we are also following this major story out of the White House, a story that sources say has President Donald Trump's aides and allies reeling. White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles sharing her brutally honest opinion of the president, his agenda and his most trusted advisers.
How bad was it? One senior White House adviser told CNN, simply, "Yikes!"
Of her boss, President Trump, Wiles said, that he, quote, "has an alcoholics personality". Of Vice President, J.D. Vance, who, of course, was a Trump critic for years, Wiles said his conversion was a little bit more sort of political. And on Elon Musk, the now former head of DOGE, Wiles said he's an avowed ketamine user, and he sleeps in a sleeping bag in the EOB -- that's the executive office building -- in the daytime.
These comments were made during numerous on the record interviews with Chris Whipple of "Vanity Fair" over the course of 11 months. Now, however, Wiles is crying foul. She calls it a, quote, "disingenuously framed hit piece," and claims that, quote, "significant context was disregarded," end quote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was unfortunately another attempt at fake news by a reporter who was acting disingenuously and really did take the chief's words out of context. But I think, most importantly, the bias of omission was ever present throughout this story. The reporter omitted all of the positive things that Susie and our team said about the president and the inner workings of the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
Former policy director for Mitt Romney, Lanhee Chen; CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist, host of "The Interview", Lulu Garcia- Navarro; CNN political commentator, former Biden White House communications director Kate Bedingfield; and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.
Welcome to all of you. And of course, just with a quick note that we are keeping an eye on this news conference. So, if I have to jump in, I do apologize.
But, Scott Jennings, you're on many a text chain with the White House and the various staffers thereof. Interesting to note. I think Susie Wiles was comparing J.D. Vance there to Marco Rubio, and Marco Rubio's own conversion to the Trump team. But can you first just kind of take us inside the scenes here?
Because, I mean, Susie Wiles is such a fascinating figure in Trump's orbit. I mean, she has his total trust. She usually shuns the spotlight. I mean, he tried to give her the microphone on election night. She refused to take it.
Right now, she's sitting with this interviewer for all of these interviews. She's not denying that she said these things, right? The things they're putting out, they say, well, the context was missing. You know, the whole thing is disingenuous. But she's not saying she didn't say these things.
What are people saying about it? How did this happen?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, folks, I think initially saw it and then wanted to know more. And of course, what the White House is saying is that its been significantly taken out of context. All I can tell you about Susie is this -- revered, respected, has the total confidence and trust of the president. He's come out this afternoon and backed her on everything.
And so -- look, I mean, ultimately, there's only one person's opinion that matters, president of the United States.
He loves Susie yesterday. He loves her today. And the world keeps spinning. So, I think, you know, look, for most people, this will be a little bit of palace intrigue, but I don't -- I don't detect any wobbling in the leadership of -- in her position at the White House.
HUNT: It is interesting. The president did give an interview to "The New York Post", which published some comments that he made addressing this alcoholics personality quote that Susie Wiles gave them head on. He says this in that interview, he said, no, she meant -- you see, I don't drink alcohol. Everybody knows that. But I've often said that if I did, I'd have a very good chance of being an alcoholic. I have said that many times about myself. I do have a very possessive personality.
I mean, Kate Bedingfield, you've been in these rooms. You've been in these situations. You can understand why something like this is going to set off a bomb in the president's inner circle. What stands out to you?
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A couple of things. I mean, first of all, usually when you do this kind of long-form sit down like this, you're trying to burnish your reputation. You kind of go into it with a strategic aim. What's so interesting to me is that Susie Wiles has this really sterling reputation as somebody who has Trump's, confidence and who runs the White House with an iron fist.
[16:05:04]
And in many ways, it felt to me like this interview was sort of an emperor has no clothes moment where moment after moment, significant Trump decision after significant Trump decision. She says in the interview, you know, I was overruled. Or, you know, I don't really know, or people that are smarter than me are going to make this decision.
It was very interesting to me to watch somebody who has a public reputation, you know, as such a stalwart of the White House, sort of try to distance herself from some of the key decisions. So, I actually wondered if there was a strategic effort there to distance herself. And if we're going to see perhaps a Susie Wiles departure.
I mean, these are the kinds of interviews that you do when you're trying to establish your kind of capstone legacy.
HUNT: I both take your point, but also isn't part of what has made Susie Wiles so integral to the Trump circle that she is known for being the person that takes what he wants to do and doesn't try to change it, but rather tries to make it happen.
BEDINGFIELD: I think there's absolutely some truth to that, but she's been given -- she's -- she has been given in Washington an absolutely sterling reputation for managing the White House with an iron fist. And it was just interesting to me that over the course of 11 interviews, I mean, this also, it's important to remember that this wasn't just sort of one conversation.
You know, you kind of hear her saying it was taken out of context, although I would say if they feel there was context omitted, they should release the tapes. Let's hear -- let's hear -- let's hear the footage of the whole thing.
JENNINGS: What you just said is absolutely true. I just finished this book on the Trump White House and the execution piece. That word comes up time and again. This Trump 2.0 versus Trump 1.0., the team, the construction of the team.
But Susie sitting at the top of it once he makes a decision and says execute, she's making it happen and making it happen quickly. And he fully credits her with keeping everybody on task, keeping drama out of it, and reminding everyone, you're not here to execute on your agenda. You're here to execute on his.
HUNT: One of the more interesting textural elements of this is, of course. I mean, there was full participation in this, right, by the White House, not just by Susie Wiles, but also by Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance and others who sat for a portrait session.
And, Lanhee Chen, I know, you know, you've worked for and around Marco Rubio before, also for Mitt Romney. J.D. Vance says to the vanity fair photographer, right as he's sitting for this, I'll give you $100 for every person you make look, really S-H-I-T-T-Y compared to me, he said, $1,000 if it's Marco. That says a lot.
LANHEE CHEN, FELLOW AT THE HOOVER INSTITUTION AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Well, look, I mean, I think it's -- there's a little bit of jest there, probably, but some amount of playing into the reality that we all know. We have two people that could be potential candidates for the presidency in 2028, I think -- look, the bigger issue here is we should all hope that Susie Wiles keeps her job because she is managed to do what a lot of chiefs of staff and other staff of this president have not been able to do, which is to actually channel what he wants to do into actionable policy, whether you like it or not, this has been a productive White House, and I think that's because of her.
The notion that somehow she might be going away, or that there might be a different chief of staff, that's a problem, I think. And so, in a lot of ways, regardless of what happened here, I'm not surprised she still has the presidents trust because she gets things done, unlike a lot of other people.
HUNT: Lulu, the other really illuminating thing in here is how she talked about the attorney general, Pam Bondi, and the Epstein files. I mean, she talks about -- she says that Bondi, quote/unquote, "completely whiffed" on appreciating this was the event that she held with these influencers who really cared about Epstein. She gave them binders full of nothingness, is what Susie Wiles said, that she said that the witness list, her client list was on her desk. There was no client list. And it sure as hell wasn't on her desk.
She also acknowledged that Trump is in the Epstein files, and she also said that it was not true that Bill Clinton was ever on the island. LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, I mean, to be honest, it
sounds a lot like some of the things that I might have said on air at CNN, just saying here. You know, I think this was an incredible piece of journalism. To get an unvarnished view in real time of what the most powerful person other than President Trump to give her opinions on these really important moments.
I mean, as a journalist, I just applaud it. I am grateful that she sat down to do it, and I am grateful that they published it. So, you know, I think the American people need to be hearing these things and what comes out of it I think is at these incredibly important moments that really do have a lot of impact in this country. You are seeing a chief of staff saying, I don't know that they made the right call.
Unlike this idea that this has been a very effective White House. I think what this shows, actually, from Susie Wiles is that in moment after moment, the dissolution of USAID, she basically says, hey, this man might have killed, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people through what he did. She did not agree with that. She did not agree with perhaps what's been happening in Venezuela.
There are moments after moments where you see Susie Wiles as effectively saying either, hey, wasn't me or I didn't agree with it.
HUNT: That's also true. Kate, in what is described as the retribution tour in this store where she basically says, okay, sir, you have 90 days and then were going to kind of move on and do something else.
[16:10:08]
BEDINGFIELD: Yeah.
HUNT: But obviously, that didn't happen. And she acknowledged that Letitia James -- well, maybe that was actually just straight up retribution.
BEDINGFIELD: Right. Well, and she, she essentially says effectively in so many words, this is a political loser for the president. Now, whether that turns out to be true, you know, that can be argued.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And she's got great --
BEDINGFIELD: But she's very clear in her discussion with Chris Whipple that she does not think this is a political winner for the president.
And so, it's just -- it is interesting, as I say, I go back to it is just -- it is a very eye-opening view into how somebody who is the single most powerful person inside that White House, as we are repeatedly told, you know, doesn't actually agree with a lot of the decisions that have been made and also doesn't -- I go back to, does not have her arms around it. I have to --
HUNT: I have to push pause on this conversation, unfortunately. Let's listen to the L.A., news conference on Rob Reiner.
NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Nick Reiner, who is accused of killing his parents, actor/director Rob Reiner and photographer producer Michele Singer Reiner. These charges will be two counts of first-degree murder with a special circumstance of multiple murders. He also faces a special allegation that he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that being a knife.
These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole or the death penalty. No decision at this point has been made with respect to the death penalty. We have requested, and currently, Nick Reiner is being held without bail.
Now, before I -- in announcing these charges, I also want to announce that the just that they are charges. Charges are not evidence. Evidence is something that we will be presenting in a court of law to meet the standard of proof. We meet in every criminal case which is beyond a reasonable doubt to 12 jurors who unanimously have to find that we've met that standard to prove the charges we bring to court.
Right now, with respect to the process, Nick -- once the charges get filed this afternoon, Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is going through medical clearance, something that everybody who goes who gets arrested and gets held in a Los Angeles County sheriff's department jail goes through once he is medically cleared, he will be brought to court to be arraigned on these charges. At that point, he will enter a plea of guilty or not guilty.
Now, prosecuting these cases involving family members are some of the most challenging and most heart wrenching cases that this office faces because of the intimate and often brutal nature of the crimes involved. Rob Reiner was a brilliant actor and director, an iconic force in our entertainment industry for decades. His wife, Michele Singer Reiner, was an equally iconic photographer and producer. Their loss is beyond tragic.
And we have we will commit ourselves to bringing their murderer to justice. I want to thank LAPD Chief McDonnell, who is here today, along with Deputy Chief Allen Hamilton from the LAPD and LAPD Captain Scott Williams and the entire robbery and homicide division, who literally has been working around the clock to gather the evidence that has led to the charges we're going to be filing today.
Also from my office, I have assistant district attorney, Maria Ramirez. I have director of specialized prosecutions, John McKinney. I have our head deputy of major crimes, Craig Hung. And I have the two prosecutors who will be leading the prosecution in this case, assistant head deputy of major crimes, Habib Baileyan and deputy district attorney for major crimes, Jonathan Chung.
They will bring their decades of experience to holding this murderer accountable for his actions. At this point, again, you will hear in the media, rumors. You will hear speculation. You will hear hearsay.
What I am asking everyone to do is to rely on trusted sources. If it doesn't come from the district attorney's office, from LAPD, from the coroner's office, or from the courtroom itself, and there is a good chance you are hearing misinformation, because at the appropriate time, the actual evidence involved in this case will be presented in a court of law.
So, I ask for your patience until that is done. But again, please do not rely on rank speculation, rumor or hearsay to believe that you understand anything about what went on in this case. I'd now like to turn it over to Chief McDonnell.
CHIEF JIM MCDONNELL, LOS ANGELS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Thank you.
Well, good afternoon and thank you all for being here today. And it's with deep sadness that I address the tragic loss of Robert and Michele Reiner.
On December 14th, 2025, LAPD officers from our West Los Angeles division responded to a death investigation at the 200 block of South Chadbourne Avenue, which is in the Brentwood section of Los Angeles. Upon entering the residence, they discovered the bodies of Mr. and Mrs. Reiner. Detectives from our robbery homicide division, homicide special section immediately initiated a comprehensive investigation.
The evidence gathered led to the arrest of their son, Nick Reiner, who was taken into custody later that night without incident, and the exposition park section of our city.
Today, the Los Angeles County district attorney's office has formally filed charges against Mr. Reiner for the murder of his parents.
This case is heartbreaking and deeply personal, not only for the Reiner family and their loved ones, but for our entire city. We extend our deepest condolences to all of those who are affected by this tragedy.
I want to take a moment to recognize and thank our criminal justice partners, the district attorney's office, led by D.A. Hochman and everyone who worked tirelessly on this investigation. Their swift action, professionalism and commitment to justice have been instrumental in bringing clarity and accountability to this case.
The LAPD remains steadfast in our mission to protect life and uphold justice. We will continue to support the Reiner family, ensure that every step forward is taken with care, dignity and resolve. Thank you.
HOCHMAN: We'll now take some questions.
Yes, right here in the front.
REPORTER: Could you talk about why you feel this case rises to special circumstances?
HOCHMAN: So special circumstances is a situation where an enu -- one of the enumerated factors that lead to elevating, in some ways a first degree murder case to a special circumstance, first degree murder case occurs. One of those special circumstances is called multiple murders. Here we have two, and it qualifies under the definition of multiple murders to allege the special circumstance in this particular case,
I saw over here. REPORTER: -- Nick Reiner found. And was there any evidence on him
indicating a crime? And did he say anything?
MCDONNELL: Yeah, he was found with good solid police work, investigative tools used by robbery, homicide and gang and narcotics division detectives with the U.S. Marshal service task force involved as well. So we're -- we're thankful for the work that was done. I won't go into talking about what was found or anything that could potentially taint the investigation.
REPORTER: Chief, I want to follow up to you, sir.
MCDONNELL: Yes.
REPORTER: Given nicks history of drug use, was there any indication that he was under the influence at the time of this crime?
MCDONNELL: No. Thank you again. That's another question I can't touch.
REPORTER: And following up on that, is there any evidence of mental illness in his background?
MCDONNELL: Yeah, you can talk about that.
HOCHMAN: I'm sorry. Please repeat the question.
REPORTER: Is there any evidence of mental illness in his background beyond the addiction?
HOCHMAN: The evidence -- any evidence, if there is any of mental illness for his background will be coming out in the hearings to that will occur? We anticipate again after the arraignment, the process will go through the normal process. A case like this goes through. At the appropriate time, if there is evidence of mental illness, it will be presented in court and in whatever detail the defense seeks to do that.
REPORTER: Can you talk about his state of mind?
HOCHMAN: Yes. Right here.
REPORTER: Are you anticipating any kind of significant delay in bringing this case to trial on the basis perhaps they have to undergo significant psychological evaluation, which would also give your people what they need in the way of that? What might describe why this actually happen?
HOCHMAN: We don't anticipate any significant delay more than is involved in a first degree murder case with special circumstances. These are some of the most serious charges that a das office can bring against anyone, and we anticipate that the discovery that we will produce to the defense will be robust. It will be very involved. They'll want adequate time to review it.
They'll -- again, they'll want to go through every single factor that they can ascertain in the defense of Mr. Nick Reiner. So again, this will proceed along the tracks that many of the first-
degree murder cases proceed. Do I anticipate it being particularly fast? No, I anticipate it being very thorough.
Yes. Right here.
REPORTER: Cause of death and time of death.
HOCHMAN: We are not at this time. Yes, yes. Right here.
REPORTER: Members of the Reiner family help with your investigation so far? And did they provide any information or assistance which led to Nick being arrested?
HOCHMAN: Let me defer to the chief on this.
MCDONNELL: Go ahead.
ALAN HAMILTON, LAPD DETECTIVE CHIEF: I am Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton, chief of detectives. We don't have any specific information we're going to release at this time regarding the family's information they provided. As we move forward, that information will be discussed in the appropriate venue, which will be the court.
HOCHMAN: Yes. In the front here.
REPORTER: Chief, can you talk anything more about just not the condition that Nick was arrested. (INAUDIBLE)
HAMILTON: So specifically, he was arrested in a -- in a public area, in the Exposition Park area near the University of Southern California campus. He was approached by the officers, and he was arrested without incident. There were no indications that there was no indication that he was going to resist or anything like that. He didn't flee or anything like that. He was taken into custody without issue. And, and he was transported to our police headquarters facility.
(CROSSTALK)
HOCHMAN: Take a question back there. Yes?
He has been alleged one of the allegations is that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or a knife. As to where and how the weapon will be that was located or will be located, that will actually be evidence we'll present in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got two more questions. Two more questions.
REPORTER: Where were the victims found --
HOCHMAN: Let me take a question over here.
REPORTER: A timeline of when you think the murders occurred. Because now we know that there was an altercation on Saturday night at the party. Do we know that this happened Saturday night and Sunday morning? HOCHMAN: I'll defer to the chief on this one.
MCDONNELL: Yeah. We don't have -- we don't have. I'm sorry. We don't have that kind of specificity yet. We're waiting the coroner to be able to try and determine as best they can at this point, time of death.
REPORTER: Chief, where were the victims found? Can you say where the victims were found?
REPORTER: Who called 911?
HOCHMAN: Let's -- we'll take the question back there.
REPORTER: Yes. Who called 911?
HOCHMAN: Chief?
MCDONNELL: A radio call from fire department.
HAMILTON: Okay, so in terms of how the Los Angeles Police Department became aware, it was a request from the Los Angeles Fire Department who responded to the scene first. We responded to their request for assistance at the scene of the incident.
Our initial West L.A. officers that responded determined that a crime had occurred, and they immediately notified our robbery-homicide division. They responded, and they have taken over the investigation since that point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, everybody.
HOCHMAN: We take one more. One more question. I'll take it right here.
REPORTER: You're hesitant to talk about sensitive evidence, but based on the evidence collected to support these charges, does that include an admission by the defendant to the --
HOCHMAN: So any statements made by the defendant at any point in time would be the type of evidence we will be presenting in court. Let me take one. I'll take one last question right here.
REPORTER: I have a --
HOCHMAN: Hold on one second. I just identified this gentleman. Sorry.
REPORTER: Do you have an estimated time of completion of the autopsy and the information coming from the time of your office and to --
HOCHMAN: We do not have the estimated time that it will take. We know that they are working on it expeditiously. But as to when they deliver it, we do not have that estimated time. I'll take that one last question back there.
REPORTER: I was just wondering -- I know these types of cases are especially difficult. How much do you take into account what the family wants when it comes to charges? When you're dealing with a domestic situation like that? And does that factor into whether you will go after life as parole or possibly that kind of thing?
HOCHMAN: In these cases like -- like any of these cases, we will take the thoughts and desires of the family into consideration in making our decision. Thank you all very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
REPORTER: What do you celebrities visited the evidence
HUNT: All right. We have been watching a news conference with the L.A. County district attorney, as well as the LAPD chief there, talking about the charges that are set to be filed against Nick Reiner. Two counts of first-degree murder with special circumstances because there were multiple murders.
Let's go to Josh Campbell of CNN, who was in the room for this news conference questioning those officials.
Josh, walk us through what we just heard.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, so we now have the official indication that Nick Reiner, the son of Rob and Michele Reiner, stands not only accused of their murder but has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder. And that's important because we were wondering, you know, it was the police department that allegedly said that they believed he was responsible.
[16:25:03]
But now we were, you know, wondering, well, what type of charge? With first--degree murder, what that indicates is that prosecutors believe this was premeditated under California law. This was something that, you know, wasn't the crime of passion in the moment, which would likely fall under second degree murder. And so, that is notable.
They also indicated the type of weapon they believe was used in these alleged murders, that being a knife used to fatally stab the two victims here. I asked the question about any statements that the defendant may have made to investigators. That's obviously something that is important to understand. Is this someone who was willing to confess to what happened? Did he actually provide them with any type of information, or did he lawyer up and then not respond?
The district attorney said that they're not prepared to get into that information right now. That would be used in the court proceedings. But it's also worth pointing out that any type of charging document that authorities make would likely lay out the evidence that they found to include statements. And so, we will, of course, be standing by to determine whether there's anything that he had actually conveyed to investigators.
And then the last point I'll make is that this was an arrest that was done by a joint task force of LAPD officers and U.S. Marshals. We got a bit of a timeline there. It was a fire department that originally had called the Los Angeles Police Department after CNN knows from our reporting that a family member had found the two victims. They then called the LAPD. Once the LAPD had some indication of who they believed was responsible for this, the word went out to the special fugitive apprehension task force here in Los Angeles. Authorities say that nick Reiner was located, arrested without incident, about 9:50 -- 9:15 p.m. on Sunday.
And so, what we're waiting as of right now, we do know that he does have an attorney. Our colleague Norma Galeana talked to the attorney on his way out today. Of course, he said that currently the reason why he didn't show up the defendant in court is because he's still being medically cleared.
We don't know if that means that, you know, there was maybe some type of injury that he has sustained during the arrest. Police said, in their words that it went without incident. Or if there's other some other type of mental health issue that is at play here.
We do know, based on his own admissions in the past, that Nick Reiner had suffered from serious addiction issues. So monumental step here in this investigation with murder charges now being filed.
HUNT: Really remarkable. Josh Campbell for us -- Josh, thank you very much.
CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller is also with us with more.
John, what stands out to you here?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, what we weren't surprised at was who was charged in that he was arrested just within a couple of hours after the incident. We didn't get a lot of information about what police found. We did get some insight into why they required a search warrant at the crime scene of a double murder, which is we've been told by sources close to this investigation that the son was actually living at the Reiner residence in a guest house, separate from the main structure.
So that means while processing the crime scene, because he had access to that separate structure, that search, that they required a search warrant. And the district attorney said that the weapon used was a knife, but didn't go into detail as to where it was recovered or if it was recovered. But what happens now is he will -- he will be brought before a judge at that initial appearance, where he will be asked to enter a plea. Guilty. Not guilty, or to delay that.
Then what happens is there will be a charging document. We may get more information, more detail there. We may get more of that in that appearance. But 14 days after that, they have a preliminary hearing.
That's almost like a mini trial. It's where they would present various pieces of evidence. Present certain witnesses, not just police officers, maybe others where they would get into more detail. That's where the judge basically. Here's where the bar is set in terms of what evidence is in the possession of authorities and then decides it meets the standard to be bound over for trial.
So we're going to get this information in several stages, some in the charging document which we haven't seen yet being filed today, some at that initial appearance, which we don't know exactly when that is going to occur, possibly today and then some at that preliminary hearing, which could be within two weeks.
HUNT: I want to go back to our Josh Campbell on scene at the news conference, because, Josh, of course, we've been reporting that there was an argument the evening before, that witnesses overheard. What can you tell us about that and how it plays into what we're learning today?
[16:30:04]
CAMPBELL: Well, this is interesting. You know, were trying to get an understanding of what the relationship, you know, may have been here, and again, you know, Nick Reiner has talked about this in the past on, you know, podcasts about you know, dealing with this family whenever he was facing those addiction issues. But we are learning from a source that it was the night before the bodies of Rob and Michele were found, that the family was at a holiday party hosted by Conan O'Brien and witnesses described the son and father getting into some type of argument. That's basically all the details that we know as of right now.
But that is going to be obviously a major focus. You know, as I mentioned earlier, this is now a first-degree murder charge with which authorities say, you know, again, under California law indicates premeditation.
That does not have to mean premeditation for hours and days and weeks. Sometimes that window of time can be quite narrow. And so, again, there's a lot were still waiting to find out about whether he had actually said why he did what he did, whether he described some type of conflict. And then, you know, obviously acting allegedly violently here, a lot of that will come down to that interview with detectives that we know the detectives at least attempted. And that's why those charging documents are going to be so key.
Oftentimes in these cases, we see them actually lay out exactly what a defendant had said because, you know, again, they have to build their case. They have to cross that threshold of, you know, convincing a judge. And, you know, obviously a jury down the road if it comes to that, that they believe that they have their person. And so, again, all that key evidence were still looking to obtain what was actually happening there in the minutes and the hours right before these alleged murders occurred.
HUNT: CNN entertainment reporter Lisa France is also with us. She has been watching as well.
And, Lisa, this remarkable reality of a first-degree murder charge suggesting the premeditation. And of course, this has shaken Hollywood, as this couple was such a part of the fabric of the place. LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Absolutely, Kasie,
and what we're seeing now, now that we know the alleged who people want to know why. So, they're revisiting in particular the "Being Charlie" movie, which Rob Reiner and his son Nick worked on a decade ago. Nick co-wrote it, and Rob Reiner, he is the one that directed it. And there's a lot of footage that I've been combing through watching when they were promoting this film, and they talked a lot about what it meant to them to work together.
Rob Reiner said that this was probably one of the most satisfying and deeply personal projects he's ever worked on, and he made the comment that he hoped that it would make him a better father because he believed that this film, which was loosely based on his son's struggle with addiction, homelessness and rehab helped him to understand his son better by seeing what he went through.
Now, of course, this was a dramatic film, but it also came out of his son's very real experiences, and his son said it was cathartic for him. And Rob Reiner said, it's interesting that you don't go into a project with this, particularly looking for it to be cathartic for you as the director, but it absolutely was because, as I mentioned, he said it helped him to better understand who his son was as a person and also what he was going through as he struggled with his addiction.
HUNT: CNN legal analyst, criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson is also with us as we walk through all of this.
And, Joey, the charges first degree murder with special circumstances of multiple murders, can you help us understand what that piece of this charge means?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, indeed. Casey, what happens is, is that because of the fact that you have a double murder here, there's a special circumstance enhancement. As a result of that, there's a couple of ways to get to special circumstances. The one way is that you have multiple murders. The other way is that you have a weapon.
We did hear the indication of the knife being used. I think based upon that, based upon the fact that there are two deaths here, they're going for that is prosecutors. This first degree murder charge. When you hear about first degree murder, it distinguishes from any other murder. Youve heard it stated already that there's an element of premeditation, unlike what people may believe in terms of having to plan for weeks and months, et cetera., that's not the case.
Premeditation could be formed in an instant because of the nature of this charge. You're looking at life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. California does indeed have the death penalty. It has not been applied under this governor. Theres a moratorium on it. Although the district attorney who you heard from did convene with his staff in March of this year, indicating that there are cases that are egregious, that he would petition for, not clear as to what they're doing here.
But based upon the nature of these charges, there'll be a -- it's called an a criminal complaint that will be filed ultimately, once that criminal complaint is filed, he'll be brought into court, Kasie.
[16:35:01]
He'll be given an opportunity to plead guilty or not guilty, generally as a matter of course, this is a not guilty plea. And then the case goes on from there. And then within ten days, you have what's called a preliminary hearing.
And at that preliminary hearing, prosecutors merely need to establish that there's probable cause to believe that a crime was committed. And he was -- he committed it. And that would keep him in.
Last point. And that is that I do not expect, based upon a new law passed in California of January of this year, that he will be afforded bail. Initially, you might recall, bail was at $4 million.
HUNT: Right.
JACKSON: He's now held without bail. And I suspect, based upon the nature of what he's charged with and because its life without parole, that he will be remanded, that is, no amount of bail will have him out of custody before his trial begins.
HUNT: Interesting.
Let's go back to our John Miller who has some new reporting to share with us.
John, what are you learning?
MILLER: Well, just a little bit more about the timeline leading up to these events. Having spoken to a source who is close to people involved, what we learned is that the daughter Romy lives across the street from the Reiners. The son, Nick, who was charged, was staying with his parents in that guest house on the Reiner property.
At some point, on that day, in the 3:00 hour, the daughter is -- goes across the street to, check up on her parents. It is when she discovers them in the house, comes back outside. She finds her roommate, who occupies that house across the street with her and gets her to call 911. So, it is the daughter's roommate who has that initial 911 call where they call for the ambulance, saying, there's two people in need of medical care. It's the ambulance that gets there, looks at the scene and assesses that they are at a crime scene and that these individuals are deceased and calls for police backup.
Police who are already responding to the medical call are told to upgrade that to code three, meaning this is now lights and sirens and an emergency. And when they get there and notify robbery-homicide very quickly, they go over the events of the past 24 hours that -- that Nick, the son who was staying in the guest house, is not present on the property. They have detectives go look for him.
They learn about the events at the party the night before where one person described it to me as he believed that Nick Reiner might have not been a guest. There might have been a homeless person. He was disheveled looking.
He was talking to people and saying things like, so, you know, do you like being famous? He was interrupting conversations. Is that what led to what we were told is an argument with his father? Either way, the -- they left together, we are told and back to the house.
So that gives us the before timeline and the after timeline. Of course, the gap is we don't know at what point after the Reiners got home with their son what occurred that led to this homicide. We just know that the next morning or the next afternoon the daughter went across the street to try and make contact with her parents and discovered this horrific crime. These are probably the details that will emerge later in these filing documents. But right now, it fills in some of the gaps.
HUNT: A devastating story.
John Miller, thanks very much.
Joey Jackson, Josh Campbell, Lisa France, thanks to you all as well for being here, covering this with us.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, officials release a new photo and new video of what they say is a person of interest in the deadly shooting at Brown University as the manhunt for the killer intensifies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:43:29]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RACHEL MILLER, PRESIDENT, PROVIDENCE CITY COUNCIL: It's a really challenging time. Theres no I mean, I can feel the anxiety throughout the city. There's nothing that shatters the sense of peace and safety, like something like this. At the same time, there's been no sighting of this person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The manhunt for the gunman in the brown university shooting growing more urgent as the community gets more anxious. Today, police released this new photo of the person of interest, and the FBI released a video timeline showing the movements of that person of interest. Officials say the suspect is around five foot eight inches tall with a stocky build, walks with a distinctive gait. They're now offering a $50,000 reward.
Let's bring back CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller and CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore, who is a retired supervisory special agent at the FBI.
John Miller, we obviously were talking yesterday about the fact that they still had not been able to identify, track down this person.
What is your latest understanding and reporting around where this investigation stands?
MILLER: Well, they're working very hard in that. As you know, there was a person of interest who they cleared. That caused them to take a much harder look at this video and see if they could come up with more, put out more. We're seeing that that has helped with getting people to call in saying, I think this person in the video is this person or that person.
[16:45:00]
They've also interviewed people about where they were, what they were doing, alibi type questions. In addition, they've taken buccal swabs or DNA samples from people on the idea of, we just need to take these samples, you know, to eliminate you. And people have been cooperative in providing those. So, I so I say that all not because they have a prime suspect that we know about who they're focused on singularly, but they are looking at a at a couple of people.
That is normal in this process. They're talking to a lot a lot of people, and they're hoping to hoping to stir the pot with these videos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Steve Moore, with the reward, as well as these videos being out there, being out there, I mean, what role what role does the public play at this phase of the manhunt?
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the FBI and Providence police are hoping that they play a significant role because, role because as John mentioned earlier in a different report different report that they don't have a lot of cameras in that building. Therefore, they don't have a lot of video to look over.
They have apparently precious little physical evidence left behind at the shooting. So this is -- this is, at this point, a key part of their investigation.
HUNT: John, we obviously have you know, covered a number of manhunts like this. There was, of course, Luigi Mangione was on the run for a little while after -- you know, he allegedly killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO. Weve seen this happen in some other cases.
Typically, you know, it has been very hard to run considering the amount of video that is out there. Now, the technology that is available, what's your understanding of why there is so little available in this particular case?
MILLER: Either the cameras in that building didn't capture it. That could evoke its own suggestion, which is the person may have studied the building and taken a route to avoid the known cameras. But what they've been able to do is they've been able to compensate for that by extending that video canvas to this wide area where they now really have tracked him for, almost two hours before the shooting, in his circuitous route through this neighborhood, walking slowly, breaking into a run, changing directions. And I mean, you know, you asked Steve about this in an earlier show,
and, and he would tell you, you know, this all could have meaning. One of the questions I would raise is when you have an individual who is paranoid, surveillance conscious, when they stop, when they reverse direction, when they suddenly run and then go back to walking, that could actually be a surveillance detection technique. That guy a block behind me, is he running after me? That guy ahead of me. Did he make the same turn I did?
It could be him trying to detect. Is anybody looking at me? Following me before this incident? But again, we're trying to put our heads in the head of an individual who, we don't know a lot about.
HUNT: Yeah. For sure. So, our Brian Todd is on the scene in Providence, Rhode Island.
Brian, what's the latest on the ground there? What have you learned today?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, the FBI has just posted a new set of enhanced surveillance videos showing the person of interest walking on streets near the site of the shooting in providence in the 2:00 hour on Saturday afternoon. To clarify this a little bit, about an hour or so ago, they put out a series of videos timestamped with addresses and streets on them. They have since taken that down.
I was told by a law enforcement official they took that down because they had addresses posted there, that they did not want the public to see. They have just released a new kind of one minute compilation of enhanced videos. I'll take you through those images very quickly.
The first one shows this person of interest walking with his hands in his pockets. He's looking to his right. He is wearing a black -- looks like a black ski cap and a mask and a two tone, seemingly a black and gray jacket. He's looking to his right.
He's then shown in a side door cam walking two different directions. Then he -- there's one video where he walks, turns and puts his hands behind his back. So that's the latest series of enhanced videos the FBI is putting out of the suspect in the 2:00 pm hour on Saturday, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Brian Todd, John Miller, Steve Moore, thanks very much for that.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, top officials briefed lawmakers on those controversial boat strikes. And the defense secretary shuts down any talk of releasing video of that "double tap" strike.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: In keeping with longstanding Department of War policy, department of defense policy, of course, we're not going to release a top secret full, unedited video of that to the general public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:54:26]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This is the -- one of the least professional classified briefings I have ever sat in on, with the least amount of legal and intelligence justification for what is happening.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): This briefing left me with more questions than answers.
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I think they're trying to run out the clock.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It was really sort of disappointing, disappointing presentation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Democrats in both the House and the Senate not too happy coming out of todays closed door briefing with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, which they said left them with more questions than answers about U.S. strikes on alleged drug boats.
[16:55:03]
And this morning, Hegseth shut down bipartisan calls for the Pentagon to release to the public the full footage of that controversial double tap strike that killed two survivors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: In keeping with longstanding Department of War policy, Department of Defense policy, of course, we're not going to release a top secret, full, unedited video of that to the general public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HNT: All right. Joining us now, Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, Seth Moulton, a former Marine Corps officer. He sits on the Senate or the House, excuse me, Armed Services Committee.
Congressman, thanks very much for being here.
What did you learn at this briefing today that you didn't already know?
REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): In fact, it really confirmed my suspicions, which is they have a very shoddy legal justification for what they're doing. They talk a lot about their intelligence, but they don't really have the legality to back up their actions. And a lot of people asked really important questions. I really like the moment when Secretary Rubio talked about how Nicolas
Maduro was such a bad guy, because he had been indicted in the Southern District of New York in 2020. That's under Joe Biden's presidency. Of course, being indicted under Joe Biden's presidency in the southern district of New York is exactly the reason that Trump said he pardoned this Honduran drug kingpin, you know?
So one of my questions was just, do you plan to pardon Maduro?
The point is, this administration is all over the map. They're self- contradictory. They can't justify anything that they're doing. And that was really confirmed by this briefing on the hill.
HUNT: What role has Secretary Rubio played in talking to Republicans on the Hill and potentially convincing them to kind of lay off the pressure because there was a significant amount of pressure coming from Republicans there for a while. That seems to have dissipated somewhat.
MOULTON: It seems that secretary rubio is trying to be the adult in the room next to -- next to Hegseth, who obviously has no idea what he's doing and is trying to placate the Republicans and say, hey, this is this is okay. But just believing that drug runners are bad people, it doesn't mean that we have the legal justification to kill them.
It doesn't mean that when you kill survivors of a boat strike who are clinging to wreckage and waving from what we know for help, we're supposed to -- members of the armed services committee are supposed to see this video finally tomorrow. It doesn't mean that you can just eliminate them.
In fact, on the one hand, the administration says we are at war with these so-called narco terrorists, which of course is a term that they invented. But at the same time, they say, well, these, these, these boat people don't deserve the protections of being enemy combatants because we're not at war. So, none of this makes any sense.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Seth Moulton, I am told you have to run to the House floor to go vote. So, I want to thank you for the limited time you're able to spend with us today.
MOULTON: I do have to vote, Kasie.
HUNT: Really appreciate it. All right, we'll see -- we'll see you soon. Come back soon.
MOULTON: Okay.
HUNT: All right. Our panel is still here. It does seem, Lulu, that they don't intend to release this video. There was a moment where it seemed like it was a real possibility. That moment seems to have gone.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It does seem to have gone. And I think it's a shame. I think there's an enormous amount of public interest in this, and I think that it should be released. That said, I want to remind everyone of the previous conversation we
were having -- having with Susie Wiles, who in this interview with "Vanity Fair", talked about that the aim of the administration is actually regime change, and it's not about the drugs. And so in some ways, this is a distraction from what apparently coming from the chief of staff's own mouth is the real purpose of what's happening down there, which is to get Maduro out of office.
HUNT: And does that align Scott Jennings with where the MAGA base wants President Trump to be? Because he certainly seems to have come in for some criticism from kind of the America first wing for things like this.
JENNINGS: Well, A, we just heard from a bunch of Democrats. I interviewed Senator Todd Young today. He was quite happy with the briefing. He thought they did a good job. And he's all on board, as are most Republicans that I know, with the idea that we can do two things at the same time, we can take a strong stance against somebody who really sucks, Maduro, and at the same time, do what the American people want, which is a more muscular position against all these narco terrorists in our hemisphere.
It is in alignment with Trump's views. He's not an isolationist, and he's always said it's his intention to clean up our hemisphere. So I think if you talk to a few Republicans who were in the room today, they'd say, great, and keep going, because when I go, Todd Young told me when he goes back home to Indiana, he's hearing people say, I like it that were taking out these, narcotics terrorists because these this poison comes into the country and it destroys lives.
HUNT: Kate, we've got about 30 seconds.
BEDINGFIELD: Well, I think it's reasonable to be concerned that the Trump administration is taking steps without regard to the legality of what they're doing. I think as Lulu said, Susie Wiles has been -- was very clear in this interview that regime change is ultimately the goal. And she herself said, if that's the case, then Congress has to be involved.
And when you hear members of Congress say, we weren't given full information, we didn't get the full scope of the briefing that we should have received on this. And there are open questions about the legality of what Trump and the secretary of defense are doing, that's -- that should be of concern to everybody.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, and of course, the idea that they couldn't put out this video not plausible because we are regularly seeing pieces of the video, they're just picking which ones.
All right, guys, thanks very much for being here.
Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
