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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Authorities Give Update In Brown University Killings; Trump To Give Prime-Time Speech Amid New Cracks In GOP Support. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 17, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- but they're not going to do that.
[16:00:03]
We want it back. They took our oil rights. We had a lot of oil there. As you know, they threw our companies out and we want it back. Well, I think the message this evening is we inherited a mess.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Listening closely to President Trump and bring you the latest as we get it from Joint Base Andrews.
For now, let's turn it over to THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT. Thanks for joining us.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hello. We come on the air with breaking news. We're just moments away from an update on the search for the mass shooter who attacked Brown University.
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.
Officials in Providence set to hold a news conference any moment now. We're going to bring you that live as it happens.
At the same time, we're learning more about the effort to identify this man who authorities say is a person of interest in the shooting, which left two students dead and nine others wounded. Investigators are now looking for a second person. They believe crossed paths with this person of interest. Police say the two might have even spoken, although they don't believe the second person they're looking for was involved in the shooting.
We are now in the fifth day of this manhunt, and sources tell CNN stumbles early in the investigation led authorities to detain the wrong man. FBI Director Kash Patel announced that development via social media on Sunday, even as investigators working the case had doubts about his involvement.
Sources tell CNN that Patel's tweet angered state and local officials, who viewed it as premature and damaging to the investigation.
Here's what the Rhode Island attorney general told CNN about that mix up earlier this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NERONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think because people who aren't familiar and are experienced in investigations got over their skis, it's really important that career prosecutors and career law enforcement officers, people who have been in these situations before, talk about what we have and where we're going. You don't want to overpromise and under-deliver.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining us now in THE ARENA, CNN correspondent Brian Todd, he is in Providence, Rhode Island; CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez; CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller; and CNN senior law enforcement analyst, the former FBI deputy director, Andrew McCabe.
Brian, you are going to attend this news conference here in Providence. What are you expecting to hear from officials there?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, we're expecting to hear a lot more about the main person of interest and his movements, and I'm going to get to that in just one second with a map. They are putting out an alert. Also, as you mentioned, about a second person that they want to talk to. And really it's just because they believe this person might have crossed paths with the main person of interest at some point, possibly before or after the shooting.
They, according to Major David Lapatin from the Providence police, who I spoke to a short time ago, he said, "We believe he may have crossed paths with him. He may have even had a conversation with him." And he was quick then to say, "We're not saying there was any type of criminal contact. We just want to have a conversation with this second person."
They believe that that second person might have seen him from fairly close. Maybe, maybe, maybe even talked to him. Maybe, crossed paths with him from fairly close range. And they just want to have a conversation with that person.
Now, in addition, Kasie, they've also just put out moments ago a new map of the main person of interest who they believe is responsible for the shooting. His movements both before and after the shooting. Now, if the map is up, I can describe to you the streets that you see outlined in green. Those are the streets where they believe this person was walking before the shooting. And we were told by Oscar Perez, the police captain -- the police chief, that he believes that this man was casing out the area for at least 5-1/2 hours continuously from 10:30 a.m. until the shooting, 5-1/2 hours continuously in that area in green that you see on those streets there.
Now, the area in red on those streets that are outlined in red, they believe that accounts for the person of interest movements after the shooting. And if you see the one set of lines in red where there's a longer line at the top that ends there with a shorter line on the on the side, that line at the top that ends, I can tell you that the police chief, Oscar Perez, said that they lost sight of him at Governor Street. Governor Street is where that red line ends. So -- and but they -- the entire area that's mapped out on that map that they just put out. They're asking for people with video or any other images to contact them because they're looking at that entire area that you see on that map outlined in blue -- Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Brian, we are watching these officials assemble. We're going to let them introduce them all to the audience.
But I'm going to bring in Evan Perez while we wait for this to get started.
Evan, you have some new reporting on the stumbles in the initial search for this gunman that led to -- I mean, they detained the wrong guy.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, I mean, the person of interest that they announced on Sunday, that was the post on X from Kash Patel, the FBI director. Really set a lot of this off. But at the time that he made that post on X, the investigators already knew that the person of interest that they had detained at that hotel room in Rhode Island, his cell phone was not at all present at the -- at the location. It wasn't showing that it was present. They later also did an analysis of the gun, the shell casings, and didn't find his DNA. They also didn't find -- the ballistics didn't match with the two firearms that were found in the in the hotel room.
So that has led to a lot of consternation and certainly a lot of tension behind the scenes, because, certainly, the local officials were very upset because they believed that it did damage the investigation. Now, I will point out, local officials also were very pleased that they thought they had the right person. They were out there also saying that the community could breathe a sigh of relief.
So, it's not just the FBI that was that was that was excited about the detainment of this person on Sunday. He was later released because obviously officials determined that -- that they didn't believe he was at all connected to the mass shooting there at Brown University.
HUNT: Evan, was there a sense or is there a sense that spending as much time as they did on the first person they detained has -- is making this phase of the investigation more difficult?
PEREZ: I think there's no doubt. I mean, if you talk to some of the officials, they will say that they were also looking at other people and that they've continued to do other parts of the investigation, but they really did put a lot of emphasis on this, on this person. They -- you know, it's very clear that they wanted it to be true because they wanted to resolve the shooting. That's very natural for the local officials there. But, Kasie, I mean, it's no doubt that, you know, we have seen this before with the FBI director --
HUNT: All right. Evan, I'm sorry. Let me press pause. The police chief is just taking the microphone. Let's listen in COL. OSCAR L. PEREZ, JR., CHIEF OF POLICE, PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND:
So we have released this enhanced photo earlier today, and I want to be clear that this is a person that we would like to speak with. I -- we truly believe that based on the video footage that we have been watching for a few days they may have relevant information to the investigation. So, we're asking the public that you can help us identify who this individual is as well. If the individual themselves sees their picture, please contact the police department. As far as the one thing that I want to mention, I want to urge you, the public, not to rely on or circulate A.I. generated images that are currently being shared on social media as they're not verified or credible as well.
The updates and information that you're getting will be provided exclusively through this departments official channels. I want to make sure that we make that happen and please notify the public to make sure that that occurs.
I would also like to clarify and show a map. Please, if you complete the map.
So the map here that you see is actually a map of the area that we have been intensively walking on those streets, canvasing the area. So as you see the blue image yesterday, I mentioned that we need the public's assistance to check their camera assistance or any sort of video that you may have that could be helpful to us, that you, as you're watching it or as you're reviewing it, you feel there may be something that we can use. Please notify us. And if you need any help with that, viewing those videos, please also call us. We can come over and help you.
The green area, that's color, that's where we have confirmed where the subject was prior to the shooting. The red areas, we have also confirmed that that's the immediate area where he left after the shooting. And so, this is the map that that actually we have so far. Weve walked it all. We're still actively investigating and were still actively having agents, Providence police officers, members of the state police.
There is about nine federal agencies that are assisting us with this investigation, adding the state police as well as the providence police and other municipalities. Again, I would like to reiterate if you have any tips, please call the 272-3121 or the FBI link, FBI.gov/BrownUniversityshooting. Thank you.
MAYOR BRETT SMILEY (D), PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND: Attorney General Peter Neronha for an update?
Okay. Thank you, General.
One additional update from me and then we'll be happy to take your questions.
[16:10:00]
First, I want to just take a moment to recognize and honor the memory of Ella Cook and Mukhammad Aziz Umurzokov, who are the two deceased victims from this tragedy, and update you on the status of the survivors. Yesterday, we mentioned that one individual had been discharged. I'm happy to report that another individual has been discharged today. That leaves one survivor in critical but stable condition, and five in stable conditions.
The parents that I spoke with today all reported that their kids were improving. So, this is a happy announcement. But I know the entire Providence community, the entire state of Rhode Island, the governor and I were together at a memorial service last night, mourn the loss and offer our most sincere condolences to the Cook and Umurzokov families.
Following up on a note that the colonel made with respect to A.I.- generated images and other misinformation. We have created a online folder with all of the video and images that have been released, and we encourage both members of the press, but also members of the community. We know lots of people are sharing information, and we appreciate that. We think that will help with this investigation, but we encourage them to download and share the videos and photos from the website that has been created so that you can ensure that you're sharing an accurate and verified photo and video.
That website is now live. It is providenceri.gov/tips, T-I-P-S, providenceri.gov/tips is an online file folder that has the videos and photos that have been released to date, and it will be updated as we progress. There's been lots of conversation up here about the heroic work of the hundreds of law enforcement professionals who remain hard at work 24 hours a day and who are, in fact, making progress.
I want to close with one additional thank you tonight. All of those tip line calls are coming into the city's telecommunications department. The same folks who answer the 911 calls. And they, too, have been working tirelessly. And I want to thank the men and women at dispatch and at telecommunications for their diligence. Everyone in the city of Providence truly has a role to play in this investigation, and we're grateful for their assistance.
We'll take your questions -- John.
REPORTER: I have a question for Colonel Perez.
As he's walking around, I want to establish, actually, what's the earliest that this person of interest emerges? I believe you had said Saturday morning at 10:30, but then someone else said maybe a couple of days earlier, but -- and I recognize that it fluctuates. And this is evolving. But as of right now, what's the earliest that this individual, to your knowledge, shows up on a camera?
PEREZ: But 10:30 a.m. on the day of the -- of the tragic incident. However, it's like anything else I also mentioned yesterday that they do case the areas, they do a lot of prior check in for their crime. And so, we believe we truly believe that it could be the possibly it was there prior as well. And so, we want to make sure that we don't miss anything. And so that's why we're asking the public to help us to ensure within that map area that I mentioned with the borders between Wickenden Brook, all those areas, Guarino, that if you have a camera system to reach out to us.
REPORTER: I was in a long I Street today. Tremendous number of federal officials literally going door to door. Would you -- how would you describe it? I mean, it just seems that this is -- probably right now, the most massive, intensive manhunt going on in the world.
PEREZ: I think I agree with you on that, John. And I definitely commend the men of the -- men and women, obviously, in all our federal partners. It's a lot of work and it's intense, as you stated. It takes a lot to be able to knock on doors. These videos, its terabytes of videos that you have to look.
And I mentioned it yesterday, we're looking for a moment that takes almost less than a second. And if you miss it, you're missing something that could be critical and important for us to use. And so yes, it's definitely an intense and I believe that it's probably the most intense investigation going on right now in this nation.
REPORTER: The second person that you want to talk to, can you drill down at all on any interactions that you believe you may have had with the main person of interest? If he talked to him, did he? How close was he to him? Any interactions? What can you tell me?
PEREZ: So yeah, we have video footage of the of that determines to us and the detectives that can tell that this person was in the vicinity with a subject of interest was that we wanted that we actually have an interest on close -- close enough that we feel that we need to speak with them to find out what the -- because videos don't speak. If you think about it, I wish the video could speak, and then I'll have the answers that we need to so that we can continue on this investigation. So we're trying to find out exactly what it is, and that's why we need to speak with them.
SMILEY: Please?
REPORTER: Does this person, this new individual, have anything to do with why the person of interest was seen running in the surveillance footage?
PEREZ: Again, I wish the videos could speak. We're trying to get those answers.
REPORTER: And have you found any items of interest during your search? Specifically clothing?
PEREZ: Nothing. As we speak, no
SMILEY: Up front here.
REPORTER: Who among law enforcement or other first responders was first on the scene that day? And who came next?
PEREZ: Surrounding university was on scene. And then immediately the Providence Police Department within minutes was there.
SMILEY: Back there, green jacket. REPORTER: Released a video from 2:16 on the day of the shooting,
where we see the person of interest come into contact or near another person. Is that the moment that you think this new person and the person of interest might have -- might have come close?
PEREZ: That's correct. Around the area of Benevolent -- Benevolent and Cook.
REPORTER: So behind the Rhode Island Historical Society, that corner of Georgia --
PEREZ: Right near that area, correct.
REPORTER: And you had some searches going on in North Attleboro today. Is that connected at all to this case?
PEREZ: I can't confirm we're all over -- we're all over the place. If a tip comes in and he needs us to go down to Connecticut, we're going down to Connecticut. If it comes in and tells us we've got to go to Boston, were going to Boston.
SMILEY: Right there in the middle, the green jacket. Go ahead.
REPORTER: Is it possible that the second person could become a person of interest?
PEREZ: All we know is that that person was in the vicinity of the subject that we have an interest in, and we want to speak with them.
(REPORTER SPEAKING SPANISH)
PEREZ: Yes. So pretty much the question is just we can explain in Spanish exactly why we're looking for this individual. Why do we want to speak with them?
(PEREZ SPEAKING SPANISH)
(REPORTER SPEAKING SPANISH)
(PEREZ SPEAKING SPANISH)
REPORTER: My question is have you found any DNA evidence from the crime scene or the area that you believe might belong to the shooter?
PEREZ: So we have found a lot of evidence that we need when we use it and utilize it to hopefully guide us in the right direction in order to identify the individual that we -- that we're looking for.
REPORTER: And have that been DNA evidence?
PEREZ: There's actual physical evidence, there's DNA evidence, there's a lot of evidence that were collecting to ensure that we can find the answer.
SMILEY: Pat? REPORTER: A question for Attorney General Neronha. My understanding
from your conversations over the last few days is that the attorney general's office is taking the lead in terms of doing the investigation. My question is, what's the relationship between the attorney general's office and the Rhode Island state police that we haven't heard much from over the last few days in terms of who's doing what and what type of time for them? I do have a follow up.
NERONHA: Yeah. You know, I wouldn't say they were leading it. I think that we are working closely with our law enforcement investigators. So, you divide -- I think you can divide in a case like this the people involved in in two groups, there are five, at least five prosecutors that have been here since Saturday night. I've been here for a fair chunk of it myself particularly after hours back at the office.
But what those prosecutors are doing, Pat, is asking questions, helping to narrow and inform factual inquiries. Certainly, when there's a question, all right. Do we have enough, to get a search warrant for a house or a car or a buccal swab from a person of interest? They're informing that.
So, in any complex investigation, both federally and stateside, prosecutors are embedded with the investigative team, and we bring our own heads to the -- to the investigation because we have been involved in writing search warrant affidavits and arrest warrant affidavits and wiretaps for years.
REPORTER: And the Rhode Island state police, what kind of role have they played in terms of investigating? And I still have --
NERONHA: Yeah, the colonel can answer that. But before you do, Colonel, I just want to make sure that that I answer it as well. One of the images that I have most keenly in my mind from a couple nights ago is a state police lieutenant or Derek Melfi (ph) talking to John Primiano (ph) of the Providence police, talking to Colin Woods (ph) of the FBI and identifying a certain piece of video evidence that's important to this investigation.
[16:20:01]
And that's how intertwined and cohesive it is while prosecutors look on and engage at the same time.
COL. DARNELL S. WEAVER, SUPERINTENDENT, RHODE ISLAND STATE POLICE: So I address this question a couple of days ago. So, this is a very collaborative effort, collaborative effort between all of law enforcement, between the providence police, the state police, all of our federal partners. We will continue to develop leads and follow that with the evidence that comes along with that, until this perpetrator is apprehended.
REPORTER: Thank you. I have one quick follow up for the gentleman from Brown University.
PROF. FRANK J. DOYLE, III, BROWN UNIVERSITY PROVOST: Yep. REPORTER: Can you say for the record and with complete certainty that
every bit of digital mass surveillance, whatever type of evidence was collected by the infrastructure of Brown University, has been turned over to the Providence Police Department, as well as the attorney general's office? Is the Brown University withholding anything for the record?
DOYLE: For the record, we are cooperating 100 percent with law enforcement. We are turning over everything we have to assist in this investigation.
REPORTER: You have a map and they are fully aware of whatever surveillance is being taken.
DOYLE: All materials are being provided to law enforcement.
SMILEY: Tom?
REPORTER: Thank you very much.
Regarding the new person of interest video who may have had contact with the primary person? Does law enforcement not have the capability to identify and find someone when you have, like, full face recognition without exposing them to public scrutiny? I have a follow up.
PEREZ: Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's something where you have to investigate. If you don't know who the person is, it's very difficult. And especially if the if the image is blurred, it's very difficult to identify him. And so, if we had that availability to be able to identify him without the assistance of the public, we would.
So, at this point we do not. And that's why we're putting it out to the public to assist us in identifying who this person is.
REPORTER: And then with this person of interest that you're looking at today or this, this, this subject that you released today, are we sure it's a man? I know it was brought up in the question before it was, it could be a man, but are we 100 percent sure it's a man, or could it be a woman as well?
PEREZ: It's a person that we would like to at least speak with.
REPORTER: But, you know, there's no hidden gender at this time.
PEREZ: No, there isn't.
REPORTER: There's a black patch that the -- that the person of the main person of interest was carrying in some images he has seen with it, some images he has seen without it. Have you recovered that black satchel? Do you know if he can you tell us whether he was wearing that over his shoulder?
PEREZ: Yes.
REPORTER: Was he wearing it before the shooting, or after the shooting?
PEREZ: He's wearing a times definitely on and off. And I think I addressed that yesterday, obviously that we see him in the video with it. And then at times we don't see him, just like you stated. So we're assuming that he actually hid it under the coat that he was wearing. But we don't have enough.
SMILEY: Patrick?
REPORTER: Colonel Perez --
PEREZ: Yes.
REPORTER: The map that you showed, it looks like the perimeter has moved south into the Fox Point area from the immediate places where we've seen video footage. Can you tell me why the level of interest has moved south of the shooting site and into the Fox Point area? Is there new video footage? Is there additional evidence that points towards that area?
PEREZ: I mean, this is -- the investigation is intensive. So, we're following his path and he's giving us the last place we saw him was right at Ives near Pittman. And so, that's sort of something we're going to continue to check. But that's the last place that we saw him. That's why we moved south, and we may continue to move. It all depends. We want to see as far as we can -- how far we can go to identify him.
REPORTER: Are there any other sightings or any other anything else down by that you've extended all the way to Wickenden, but we don't have any.
PEREZ: Correct. We're at Ives in Pittman right now, but potentially could lead us further down, further down to Butler. It could lead us further down south. So, we just want to make sure we cover enough.
SMILEY: Steve?
REPORTER: Colonel, can you now explain to us, five days later how many students were in that classroom? Sadly, two lost their lives. Nine others were encouraged by the update today.
But can you now say how many kids were in that classroom? And did the gunman come in from the back? So these people never knew it was coming? Or did he come in front with full view of everybody?
PEREZ: That's all part of the interviews. And actually, we're cooperating with Brown to get the roster. That was a study hall. So, we don't have the number. We're still getting information as far as who was there.
I know Brown sent out an email to the students to notify us if they were present, and we're still getting that. So I can't give you an exact account. No.
REPORTER: Okay. And just a follow up. You did say that you lost sight of a gunman at some specific road.
PEREZ: Correct.
REPORTER: Out of your perimeter. What --
PEREZ: No, it's within the perimeter of Steve. Yeah.
REPORTER: Right. And then what happened with him after that? There's no. You have no video of where he could have gone.
PEREZ: We're still out there as we speak. There's people out there, detectives out there. There's task force officers. We're trying to figure out what are the locations we can find, but we haven't found anything else.
So, we're knocking on doors and making sure. And that's why I'm putting out the call to the public to assist us.
[16:25:02]
If you happen to be within that box that borders exactly where we want you to look, that's exactly why we're here.
REPORTER: Yeah. Inside the classroom, you've done your interviews. You're continue your interviews. The description that eyewitnesses are giving, does it match the primary person of interest? And what can you say more about the weapon? We know that the to said that he saw gun that was so big and so long. Is it possible at this point that the gunman had multiple weapons? Can you square that for us?
PEREZ: Yeah, there's definitely the interviews are definitely telling us that that's the description that we have. And yes, they're describing the weapon. Some people -- obviously, you can think it was chaos. And so, we're definitely getting some info as far as what the weapon looked like and exactly what was going on in that room. So --
REPORTER: We don't think there's multiple weapons.
PEREZ: No. Just that that individual.
NERONHA: I just want to jump in here too, because I -- you know, you mentioned a long gun. I don't -- we're not -- we are not in a position to say unless the chief you want to square it, whether this was a long gun or not, I think that there have been an account. Theres been an account from the T.A., there are multiple accounts about multiple things, including how this gunman approached the victims.
Those are not details that advance the investigation. Why not? They don't advance the investigation because as we interview witnesses, we don't want them to learn facts from these press conferences. We want them to relay the facts that they have in their heads, including a person of interest. So, we don't want a person of interest to shape what they're telling us based on what we know, as expressed to you about those kinds of details, sir, that you asked.
So we're being careful about the facts that we're sharing for that reason, so that when we talk to witnesses, what we're getting is, is their factual recitation. And as you might imagine, in a situation where there is chaos -- and look, people are ducking for cover as well. They should have -- you are going to get different accounts. And part of what's going on now is reconciling those accounts.
And I don't know if, Chief, if you want to weigh in more about the weapon, but I don't want anyone to leave this room thinking that this weapon was a long gun, because that that would be a misperception from what I know.
SMILEY: Alex?
REPORTER: In the video released yesterday, it appears that the person of interest is going by a police cruiser that has its lights on. Does that mean that the dash cam in that cruiser was on and activated? And have police been able to recover anything useful from that video?
PEREZ: So that was a police cruiser, and I'm not sure if they have body cameras in their cruisers. I don't think they do. Dash cam. No, no. Okay. I don't want to answer --
REPORTER: My next question would be are you working with Flock camera experts to try and recover anything from those cameras?
PEREZ: So, as you know, we have working Flock, we have LPRs in the city, and we utilize every resource we can. Yes, Alex.
SMILEY: Brian?
REPORTER: Colonel, you mentioned that there is other evidence. But at this point, how much of this investigation turns on the public identifying who's in that -- in those images? And are you discouraged or surprised that after a couple days of it being out there, you haven't gotten anything more concrete?
PEREZ: No, I think this is like we said earlier, its a very intense investigation, and I think it's going to take public assistance. It's actually going to take obviously, 21st century policing involving technology, but it's also going to take good old-fashioned police work, which is knocking on doors, retrieving evidence, going through yards, talking to witnesses. It's going to take all that and more, Brian.
NERONHA: And no one's discouraged. I mean, I've been in that command post. I was discouraged. I mean, leads are coming in, they're being on the ground, and no ones discouraged.
Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been in the command post as the colonel has, and no one's discouraged. I mean, I get, I get -- when I'm not there, I get hourly reports from my own team.
And there's an enormous amount of energy for people who have been working as hard as they have been. I'm really, quite impressed by that, frankly. And there's no discouragement among people who understand that not every case is a -- is a case that can be solved quickly. In my view, they get solved. It's just a matter of time in this case, will get solved, too.
REPORTER: Would you -- would you -- just to follow up. Would you have a message or an appeal to the shooter or anybody who may think they know who they are, who may be on the fence?
NERONHA: Well, look, certainly it would behoove everyone, including the shooter to provide information to law enforcement and to the shooter to turn himself in. He will be caught. And it's just a matter of time before we catch him.
And I -- and I believe that based on my experience, but also from watching the people in that command post and getting reports from where they're coming back out in the field, they know what they're doing. They're experienced, they're working hard. There's no lack of resources.
Everyone is working really well together. And we're going to crack this case.
[16:30:01]
And when we crack it, it's going to come, come open really quickly.
REPORTER: Thank you.
For you, Mayor. Have you spoken with local business owners about how much this is impacting their bottom line, especially during the holiday season, and any concerns that they might have about the situation?
SMILEY: Yeah, I have, its hard work being a small business owner and, and this time of year, is critical to them. There's a commercial district just off campus called Thayer Street. Those businesses are particularly struggling, as both students went home early. And some people are avoiding the area.
Similarly, there's a couple other commercial districts nearby the area, which is Wickenden Street, as has been discussed here tonight, and Wayland Square. The city's Department of Economic Development, in partnership with the Greater Providence Chamber of Commerce, is reaching out to those business owners to look at assistance programs or otherwise try to support them to ensure that their businesses can stay healthy and vibrant through this.
REPORTER: Do you know when those might take effect?
SMILEY: Those conversations started yesterday. And so we're working with the various merchants associations to try to determine what sort of assistance might be most helpful. And when it's ready to announce, we will. Thanks.
Please?
REPORTER: My question is for the colonel. So, looking at this new map, there's no video so far of him before than there is after the shooting. Do you think that the person of interest got to the vehicle somewhere within this area? And are you going to go through the license plate, readers?
PEREZ: Absolutely. Yeah, we're looking for that evidence. If there was any vehicles involved. And yes, you're right, he was there earlier. And so that's why we're looking at that as well. And definitely were using I mentioned that earlier, the LPR, the Flock, any cameras.
That's why we're making a call out to the public to assist us with that. It's all part of those resources that were going to need. As the general stated, to make that apprehension.
SMILEY: Dan?
REPORTER: I have a question and a follow up first for the attorney general. Attorney General, Dan Jaehnig NBC 10.
NERONHA: Right.
REPORTER: You had said the other day that you released the person of interest because it did -- the DNA didn't match, which would assume that there was DNA of the person of interest in that room. Can you tell us what it was? And if he hasn't committed a crime before, how it makes it a little bit more difficult.
NERONHA: Yeah. So, so DNA, when it's entered into a nationwide system, can confirm the identity of a suspect or subject and certainly, the advantage here is that when we find a person of interest and we can get a search warrant for a -- what we call a buccal swab, we can compare that to a known quantum of evidence.
That -- that can rule people in and obviously can rule people out. That's a powerful piece of evidence. But it's not the only evidence. And to the -- and relatedly, to the question about, you know, do we need only the public, the public is going to really help us here by identifying this person. But at the same time, there are other leads coming in through other forms of electronic and other evidence that are taking teams, teams, multiple teams out in different directions.
And we're able through a variety of means, not just DNA evidence to rule people in or rule people out. And it's -- it's a combination of really impressive work by, you know, vector experts in various forms of modern law enforcement techniques.
REPORTER: I have a second question for Brown.
So I asked this question on a deep respect, but I asked it for a lot of parents who are frustrated, who reached out to me. So please keep that in mind. And they want to know how a school with a $9 billion endowment does not have cameras on one of the older buildings at the edge of the camera -- edge of the campus where this happened, not even in the front door. Who's coming and going?
Now, they asked this question knowing that the shooter may have done whatever he wanted, but the cameras, A, would have deterred or, B, captured a better look at him and we wouldn't be here today five days out. I want you to explain that, because there's a lot of parents who are
wondering, where are you investing your money?
DOYLE: Yeah, I appreciate that question. And I want to reiterate, as our president did, that supporting our students and communicating to the parents, to our community about our support is of utmost importance. We have 1,200 cameras located throughout the campus. We don't publish the locations of the cameras that would give a map to somebody to evade detection on the cameras, so that would be counterproductive to do that.
There are cameras in this building, and as I answered the previous question, we have turned over all evidence that we are holding at Brown to law enforcement and are cooperating fully with them.
REPORTER: So you're saying that there's a camera -- are you saying there's cameras in the building? I was told yesterday there wasn't cameras in the building. The attorney general said, old building, no cameras attached to a new building with cameras.
DOYLE: I believe he said that there were two different phases of the building that might have two different levels of technology. Again, all video imagery has been turned over to law enforcement.
REPORTER: That doesn't make sense to just want to say that.
SMILEY: Amanda?
REPORTER: Okay, I have a question for the chief and a question for the FBI.
[16:35:00]
HUNT: All right. We have been watching this press conference update on the manhunt for the person who committed this mass shooting at Brown University. Officials opened the news conference by providing an image of a person that they would like to speak to, someone that they say was close at some point to the person of interest in their investigation.
Let's bring in John Miller, CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst.
John, how would you interpret the way that they are framing who this person is that they want to talk to? I mean, what do they mean by close?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, they're talking about an encounter where they were within a close proximity of each other. And what the chief said summed it up, which is, you know, I wish the videos had sound, but we don't. So what they're trying to determine is, let's do some important framing here.
Number one, they're crystal clear that this is not a person of interest as in a suspect. This is someone who they believe may have nothing to do with this at all, but may have spoken to, encountered, gotten a closer look, may have even talked to the person who they believe is a suspect.
So, they want to know things like do you know this person? Did you speak to this person? Did he have a high-pitched voice or a low pitch voice? Was there an accent? All that.
But to get there, they first have to find that person and say, was there this encounter other than you briefly passed by each other and seemed to linger for a minute. And that can have three potential outcomes that we've experienced in other cases. Number one, that person sees their own picture on TV and says, hey, that's me, and calls in.
Number two, a friend of that person sees his own picture and calls him and says, hey, that's you. You should reach out to them.
Or third, somebody who knows him reaches out and says, I think I know who that is. They would really like to eliminate, you know, that as an angle, which is if they just pass by each other and had to step around each other, that's one thing. But if there was contact or conversation or if that person actually recognized the other guy, that could mean a lot.
HUNT: Indeed. And what do you make of the fact that they can't seem to say whether or not a long gun was used here? Would they not be able to tell from the casings found at the scene? What did you make of that set of information?
MILLER: So, we are at the collision of gun terminology with civilian witnesses and law enforcement people. To law enforcement people are long gun means a rifle. Its a term of art. What the -- what the teaching assistant who was interviewed and others described was a gun that was long. It is very common among people who are involved in crimes involving guns, robbery victims, for instance, that they can, you know, give a description of a giant gun because that's the that is the thing that many times they are focused on looking at that gun, because it's the thing that could kill them. Often, they have a better description of the gun than the person holding it.
In this case, you've got a room full of people, and you have multiple descriptions about whether it was big, whether it was small. But we do know the individual fired a lot of shots, which suggests he either had an extended magazine on a pistol, or that he changed magazines and kept shooting. Either way, there was a lot of gunfire there.
I think that the attorney general was right. Describing the gun is going to be a distraction. Clearly, it wasn't a rifle. It's some kind of pistol. It was either big or it was small. But we'll get to that later.
HUNT: Fair enough.
All right. We also have with us senior -- CNN senior law enforcement analyst, former deputy director of the FBI, Andrew McCcabe.
Andy, I want to ask you about this reporting from Evan Perez, about Kash Patel, the current director of the FBI, tweeting about the initial person of interest who was detained here. That turned out to be incorrect. And the frustration and the stumbles, frankly, that Evan has reported and what impact they had here.
Can you give us a sense of what impact Kash Patel talking about this at the beginning of it essentially might have had on the investigation?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yeah, Kasie. There's a -- there's a lot of potential impacts. We know this because this is not the first time Kash Patel has done this. And notoriously during the Charlie Kirk assassination investigation, misidentified a person in custody. And so, he -- and in other cases, he seems to be the person in the FBI with who is the first to post any sort of information.
There are very good reasons why directors of the FBI, historically do not ever put themselves in that -- in that situation, because everyone who does these investigations has been around them their whole lives knows that much of the information you get early on turns out to be wrong.
[16:40:02]
And by the FBI director associating himself personally with that information, being personally responsible for spreading it, to the entire world. Theres no escaping the fact that you were wrong. Usually, FBI directors will leave that to a subordinate leaders and people beneath them. Because if they end up wrong about something that's forgiven. But the FBI director can't be wrong.
The impact of this is it's a first on the -- on the least side case. It is a huge distraction to the people trying to work this case. You don't want them to be focused on what the FBI director is posting on Twitter. You want them to be focused on the work that they're doing.
In the worst-case scenario, he might actually say things that negatively impact the investigation. He might release information that's sensitive, that we don't want to get out because we typically hold information back to facilitate interviews with interviews with people to avoid corrupting peoples recollections of things.
And so, the worst case, you could actually harm a follow on prosecution, which would be really tragic.
HUNT: All right. Andy McCabe, John Miller, thanks to you both. Our thanks to Brian Todd and Evan Perez for their reporting as well.
Coming up here in THE ARENA, new headwinds facing the president ahead of tonight's primetime address. New polling shows Americans growing increasingly anxious about his leadership as House Republicans stun Speaker Mike Johnson by joining Democrats to force a vote on health care subsidies. We're going to speak live to one of those moderate Republicans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I have not lost control --
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Because this is the third time.
JOHNSON: Look, we have the smallest majority in U.S. history. These are not normal times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:46:05]
HUNT: All right, welcome back. Tonight, a major national address by President Donald Trump from the White House. The president expected to highlight what he sees as his accomplishments in his first year in office and to preview his priorities for 2026.
Ahead of his big speech, the president's party appears to be fracturing over some of the most important issues ahead of the midterm elections. Today, four Republicans joined with Democrats to force a vote on a three year extension of Obamacare subsidies. I'm going to be joined by one of those Republicans, Congressman Ryan Mackenzie.
It's so bad that now Speaker Mike Johnson is having to publicly say, quote, "I have not lost control of the House," end quote.
Then there's the economy. New polling shows the president's economic approval hit a new low of 36 percent. And of course, there's Jeffrey Epstein. Tomorrow is the deadline for the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. The only reason that's happening is because almost every single Republican in both the House and the Senate voted for it, despite immense pressure from President Trump.
All of that leading to this warning from someone who, until very recently was one of President Trump's biggest supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I think the dam is breaking. You're seeing Republicans, they're entering the campaign phase for 2026, which is a large signal that lame duck season has begun and that Republicans will go in all in for themselves in order to save their own reelection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, is the dam breaking? Is President Trump losing his grip on Republicans? Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
Joining us now here is Republican Congressman Ryan Mackenzie of Pennsylvania. He is one of those four Republicans who's breaking with Speaker Johnson on that Obamacare vote.
Congressman, thanks very much for being with us today. I want to play for you something that one of your fellow Republicans
had to say about what the speaker has been doing about this overall Obamacare situation.
This was Congressman Mike Lawler. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): You have two leaders that are not serious about solving this problem.
RAJU: You sound pissed. You sound pissed off.
LAWLER: I am pissed. For the American people, this is absolute bullshit. And it's absurd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Congressman, what is your assessment? Do you concur?
REP. RYAN MCKENZIE (R-PA): Yeah. So, we had a couple options. We could have moved something through regular order on the floor, had an amendment or even a bill to address the Affordable Care Act tax credit extension that didn't come to light. We've also seen through the discharge process, I supported two bipartisan efforts, but we have seen Leader Jeffries withhold his support and his members from signing on to those proposals as well.
And so, what you do see is that, unfortunately, politics is being played here. Common ground and consensus aren't being found. And so, we felt like we had to take this new approach to see if we could continue the conversation to bring about affordability in health care for the American people.
HUNT: Can you say with confidence that you believe the Republican Party has a health care plan?
MCKENZIE: Well, I think there are a lot of good proposals. We're actually going to be voting on some of those tonight that could bring about long-term cost reductions and relief for the American people. That's a good thing.
I support a lot of those different ideas that are out there. At the same time, the immediacy of the concern about rising health care costs is something that could be addressed with the affordable tax credits and the extension. So that's something that I've been supportive of for a long time.
What we've seen is in a bipartisan fashion. We came together with two different proposals that would have done those extensions, partnered and paired with those long-term reforms. I think that is the best path forward, because whenever we see partisanship take place and take hold in the health care space, that means that these things come and go as different administrations or different congresses change.
[16:50:03] And so in the case of the Affordable Care Act tax credits, they were done in a partisan fashion built on Obamacare being partisan, and they only were able to get a three-year extension. So, now, when they're out of power, that extension is problematic. And so, again, we need to come together in a bipartisan fashion because then that has durability to it, so that whenever -- whoever is in Congress next has the leadership and the majority, there are going to be some members of their party that say, no, we voted for this and we support it. And here's the reason why.
If you continue in a partisan fashion, you're going to get the same outcomes where the American people, millions of Americans, have unaffordable health care, and its simply unacceptable.
HUNT: Congressman, we have this reporting just in here to CNN that your leadership, Republican leadership in the House, are planning to send members home for the holidays on Thursday afternoon without voting to address Obamacare subsidies. And, of course, that cliff is set to hit Americans January 1st. You guys are not set to be back in time, before that.
What do you have to say to your leaders? Should you leave Washington and go home for the holidays without addressing this?
MACKENZIE: Well, we would like to see a vote. That's ultimately why we signed the discharge petition. The likelihood we understand is slim, because it would have to get to 218 in the House and without being paired with reforms, I don't know that it's going to have that kind of support, but what it does is it generates a conversation.
And over in the Senate, this proposal had already been voted down. So, you know, I think Leader Jeffries and the Democrats, it's very disingenuous to say that this is the path forward because we see the very high hurdle that it's going to have to meet in the Senate. It was not met previously in a vote. But what we do need is we need to have this conversation continue.
HUNT: All right. Congressman Ryan Mackenzie, thanks very much for your time, sir. Appreciate it.
MACKENZIE: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. My panel is here in THE ARENA.
CNN political analyst and political reporter for "Axios", Alex Thompson; CNN political commentator Jonah Goldberg, Democratic strategist, former director of message planning in the Biden White House, Meghan Hays, and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.
Thank you all very much for being here.
I want to talk about the president's address tonight. Of course, there is this backdrop of the health care fight.
But, Scott Jennings, I know you spent most of the day at the White House. I think my big question is, would the president be doing this if his polls were good? Because they're not great.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, what would the Democrats be doing if their polls weren't great, which they aren't? Eighteen percent approval rating for the Democratic Party in the Quinnipiac poll, Trump's a smidge higher than that. But yes, I did spend at the White House, did my radio show over there.
What do I expect out of the president tonight? I think 15 to 20 minutes laying out what he inherited when he got here. I don't expect -- expect --
HUNT: Like blaming Biden.
JENNINGS: Major new policy proposals. I also don't expect a war with Venezuela tonight. I know some people are kicking that around, but I think he's going to lay out the stark differences of opinion about how to run the country between what they inherited and what they want to do.
It's the beginning of going into the election and making a case about why what he's doing is going to put us on the right track, so I don't expect massive new ground to be broken. But I do expect a pretty sharp argument from the president, us versus them and why what the Republicans are doing is better.
HUNT: Meghan Hays, you've been in these rooms when presidents have decided they're going to try to do something like this, to take control of the news cycle, why might a president do something like this?
MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING, BIDEN WHITE HOUSE: Exactly, to change the narrative. He's losing the narrative here on many different fronts. His own party is breaking with them, the whole story with Congress. People are now having to decide whether they're going to bend the knee to Trump or whether they're going to save their own reelection.
So, this is why you do this. It's kind of amazing to me that all the networks are taking this live. Most of the time you have to lay it out, and if there isn't something that's up for national importance, most networks would not take something live in prime. So that's an interesting thing that they are doing that.
ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: To your point, Kasie, unless you are declaring a war or announcing that you killed Osama bin Laden, usually you only do this when things are going poorly. I mean, you look back at Jimmy Carter and the malaise speech, you know, umpteenth examples of you call this when you are trying to try to reset.
And the thing is that Donald Trump has not proposed any new legislation or big legislative packages in order to try to change, you know, the economy in the country.
The -- inside the White house, the mantra is wait until Q1, wait until Q1. That means the next quarter of 2026. And they believe that the legislation they've already passed will, you know, and the interest rates coming down will sort of kick start the economy. But who knows?
HUNT: Yeah. Jonah Goldberg, I mean, the latest poll of polls, has Trump's latest approval rating sitting at 39 percent with a 58 percent disapproval rating. We know the president is obsessed with polls or historically has been obsessed with polls. How much does this explain it?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it probably explains a lot of it. I think if Scott's right and no reason to think he's not, it's smart for Trump to try and do this, try to get his hands around the affordability thing. He really dragged his feet on doing it.
The problem is Trump is a really gifted guy politically when he's the outsider taking on the establishment, and he has natural advantages when he's the insider and the president, as he was in the first term when everything was going really, really well.
[16:55:00]
He is not good at defending the status quo. We saw that during COVID, and we're going to -- I think we're seeing it now because he can't stay on a really disciplined message about the things that he needs to stay -- stay on.
HUNT: Scott, do you get the sense that this is really going to be -- I mean, you keep saying that like they're going to talk about what they inherited. Like American -- like, this guy's been -- he's been president for a year now. I mean, at what point does that fall flat with people?
JENNINGS: I don't know. Obama blamed George W. Bush for eight years.
I mean, look, there has to be a debate. We're going to have an election, so were going to have a debate. And right now, you have Democratic Party with an 18 percent approval rating with some kind of amnesia about what they did to support Joe Bidens destruction of the American economy for four years. He can't let that go.
I mean, if we're going to have an election and have a debate, you have to lay out what we're for and what we're doing, what we inherited. They got the shovels. We got the ladders. I mean, that's the nature of a political campaign.
I also think he's going to have to continue to sell the big, beautiful bill, the tax cuts, the deregulation, what they've done on energy. Gas prices are low. And they do believe they are going to see an economic boom in the first quarter.
I interviewed Kevin Hassett today. He and Bessent and the economic guys are very confident that the things they did this year are going to a newer to their benefit in the new year. Again, this is part of selling what you've done to recover from the mess that you inherited.
So I sort of view all this in the context of here comes the election, and were not going to let the Democrats get away with blaming Trump for affordability when they're the ones that burn the house down in the first place.
GOLDBERG: The problem of two weeks ago saying affordability was a hoax, right? I mean, like your message is the right one. If he started it in January, he inherited a mess.
JENNINGS: The hoax is that -- the hoax is that he caused it. The Democrats are out of here saying, you know, all of human history started in January of 2025. They seem to have forgotten the last four years. And I think Trump's going to have to remind people we were in a very big mess that we inherited.
THOMPSON: It's not just -- it's not just Democrats that are blaming Trump for the economy, though. It's the voters. And for the first time in Trump's political career, you are seeing Democrats have an edge on the economy after this last year.
HUNT: You know, I'm glad you mentioned that, because the congressman we just had on from Pennsylvania, our John King, actually went to his district recently in the Lehigh valley, which I'm from Pennsylvania originally. It's kind of, you know, old school coal, steel country in in the center of the state very, now, Trump country, quite frankly, John king talked to a voter who voted for Trump multiple times.
Here's what he has to say now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What kind of stories are you hearing?
JENIQUE JONES, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: My husband lost all of his overtime. My kids' daycare went up. Can't afford the cost of food, using credit cards for everyday expenses, no money left after their bills are paid. Pretty much just a whole bunch of financial mess.
KING: Has he fixed it?
JONES: Absolutely not. I'm definitely waiting for him to fix it. I'm very let down by that very, very let down because I feel like it's only gotten worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, that seems to be the story, Jonah. She voted for Trump three times, and now she's saying it seems to have gotten worse.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. Look, I think that Trump won in 2024 because there were a lot of people, a lot of swing voters in those swing states who were nostalgic for the pre-COVID economy of the first term. Trump had very different economic policies in his first term than in this term, and he took ownership of the economy.
And as of two weeks -- a week ago, was saying the economy is an A- plus, plus, plus, plus.
Now they're getting around to realizing that Scott was right. And if they're going to go back into a time machine and talk about this, about what they inherited and it's going to be a slog the way Vance already does, they'd be in better shape. But they have to say something, and this is the smartest thing for them to say.
HUNT: Yeah, I mean, I should note, Meghan, this particular district is actually very purple. But the sort of area of Pennsylvania, you would sometimes go there and say, hey, this is this is Trump country and you can find voters like this.
I mean, I -- what do you make of the way that she's framing this? Because you also as a Democrat, I mean, you couldn't convince people that Biden's economy was good even though he wanted to say it was?
HAYS: Right. And I also think you can blame Biden. You can blame the past administration until you're blue in the face. It doesn't change the fact that people can't afford groceries, if they can't afford child care. So it doesn't matter. He's blaming them, but he's not giving them any policies that are going to fix it.
And now you have Congress going to go out and not take care of health care subsidies. And 34 million people are going to lose health care won't be able to afford it. That is a problem. And voters are, to Alex's point, voters have a problem with that.
JENNINGS: Well, 34 million people aren't losing health care.
HAYS: Sorry, 24.
JENNINGS: The Obamacare subsidy thing actually affects a very small portion of the population. The House Republicans are putting a bill on the floor tonight that the CBO says will reduce health care premiums by 12 percent. You ask, do they have a plan? Yes, they have they have a plan. And yes, they're going to vote on a plan.
Look, Trump is a puncher. He's a counterpuncher. The Democrats have been punching him on this issue. He's got to get back in the ring and punch back. That's the speech tonight as I see it.
And they do have policies to tout. The Big, Beautiful Bill, permanent tax cuts, deregulation, energy prices are low. These are things that they did that they have to continue to sell. It is the centerpiece of his domestic policy agenda. We just got to sell it now for the election season.
HUNT: Right. Well and, of course, tariffs also a centerpiece of that. And no small, you know, reason why some of these prices have not gone in the direction that would be helpful for a voter like the one we just saw.
All right guys, thanks very much for being with us this hour.
Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
