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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Top DOJ Officials May Have Been Pressing To Bring Charges Against Abrego Garcia, Judge Says In Newly Unsealed Ruling; Sources: CIA Carried Out Drone Strike On Port In Venezuela; FBI & DHS Say They Are Surging Resources To Minnesota To Investigate Allegations Of Widespread Fraud; Mamdani Inauguration To Feature Prominent Dems AOC And Sen. Bernie Sanders To Administer Oath Of Office. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 30, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is great. This is great. More of it. I'm -- not that I'm saying we need a whole lot more billionaires. I guess we have plenty. But --
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I like the colorful ones like Beyonce and Taylor Swift and Jay-Z. It makes it very fun.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: The breaking news, a federal judge has indicated that officials in Washington may have been working with federal prosecutors in Tennessee to bring charges against Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
Hello, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off. I'm Jim Sciutto.
The most high profile case in President Donald Trump's immigration crackdown, that of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran man who was deported against a judge's order. The Trump administration blamed an administrative error at the time and then brought new charges against him, after bringing him back to the United States. Abrego Garcia is trying to get those charges dismissed for vindictive and selective prosecution.
Now, in a newly unsealed ruling, District Judge Waverly Crenshaw writes that the prosecutor in the case may not have made the decision to indict alone, but instead may have been working with others in Washington who, quote, may or may not have acted with improper motivation.
Shortly, I'm going to be speaking to Senator Chris Van Hollen. I'm joined now by CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez, as well as CNN's senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor himself, Elie Honig. Evan, first to you, because reading through this judge's filing here, it seems to be that he's identifying not just pressure on those prosecutors in Tennessee, but also questioning the timing of these charges.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. I mean, this -- the government has been claiming that this was a decision, the decision to bring these trafficking charges against Kilmar Abrego Garcia, that they were made locally and had no interference or no involvement from the bosses here in Washington. And that's not what this judge says appears to be the case.
And so, what the judge is asking for, or the judge is, is ordering here is essentially a way for Abrego Garcia's attorneys to get more insight into exactly what was happening here at Justice Department's headquarters, especially in Todd Blanch, the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, where, according to this judge, there was communication going back and forth suggesting that Blanche was pressuring and saying how these charges against Abrego were important -- was important to the deputy attorney general.
So, one of the things that that that this exposes the government to is the internal deliberations, which judges tend to have a difficult time reaching. Right? Judges tend to give the government the benefit of the doubt as to when they decide to bring criminal charges. And so, these type of -- these types of, of motions from, from a defense, the vindictive prosecution typically don't go very far.
But we've seen in a number of cases, including this one. And of course, in the cases -- the case against Jim Comey and Letitia James, where judges are taking a second look and saying, we want to see more about what the government did to bring these cases. And so, we don't know yet. There's going to be a hearing in January where a lot of this could come to play for the government as to whether or not this case even survives -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Elie, you've been criticizing the prosecution of this case for some time. You wrote recently that, if you ever want to piss off a judge, your words, I recommend overstating your case. In effect, saying that that's what prosecutors have done here for some time. But tell us the importance of this -- this finding.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Jim, wise advice to fellow prosecutors and former prosecutors out there. So, the timing is really important here.
First of all, Kilmer Abrego was wrongly deported to El Salvador. He had what's called a withholding order in place, saying that while he did not have legal status in the United States, he could not be sent to that one country. The administration messed up. They sent him to that one country. Kilmar Garcia then challenged that in the courts and was largely successful.
Now, the allegation is that after that, he was indicted. And Kilmar Abrego Garcia's team is now saying, well, he was only indicted as vindictiveness, as payback for having defeated the administration in the courts on the immigration issue. And what the judge said today is there appears to be based on documents that the judge has seen and we have not seen, there appears to be something to that. There appears to have been involvement by bosses in DOJ with the decision to charge Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
Now, there's nothing wrong with the bosses in DOJ being involved in a decision to bring charges. But the theory here and the judge said there's something to it, is that there's some evidence that the motivation for charging him criminally was to get back at him for the immigration case. And if that's the case, then he will have a very strong motion to dismiss based on vindictive prosecution.
SCIUTTO: We'll be following closely. Evan Perez, Elie Honig, thanks so much.
Joining me now in THE ARENA, Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, who, of course, met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador when he was being held earlier this year and has been in touch with him since.
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Senator, thanks so much for joining us today.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Good to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, reading this judge's finding here, do you see this as evidence that this was a political prosecution?
VAN HOLLEN: Very much so. This looks to me like a smoking gun against the administration, making the point that this was a vindictive prosecution, as you were just discussing the Justice Department decided to bring these charges against him because he asserted his due process rights when they illegally shipped him off to CECOT in El Salvador.
So, yes, this looks like another example of the Trump administration sometimes manipulating the facts here, bringing a vindictive case against Abrego Garcia.
SCIUTTO: I wonder how Abrego Garcia has been receiving all this news in these developments. I know you spoke with him recently. What's his view of the state of the process and what happens next for him?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, he and his wife, Jennifer, are glad that he got back to the United States, despite the fact that the Trump administration said he would never set foot on U.S. soil again. He's glad to be in the court system where he's afforded due process, which is what this case has been about all along from my perspective. And he's -- he's still hopeful that he'll get a fair shot in the courts, despite the fact that the Trump administration has been lying to the courts about this case.
I mean, you recall that there was a whistleblower complaint. A longtime attorney for the Justice Department was fired, let go, he says, because he refused to misrepresent facts to the court in this Abrego Garcia case. So, this is a case where the Trump administration has lied to the
courts. And now evidence that they just concocted or brought a vindictive prosecution.
SCIUTTO: To Elie and Evan's point prior, they mentioned the cases against Letitia James, against James Comey, where you have had judges, questioned, right, the merits in effect of several of these prosecutions. I wonder from where you're sitting, do you see the court system and judges providing, a check in effect on, on the DOJ and the president as they pursue these prosecutions, which you and others have called political?
VAN HOLLEN: Yes, I do think the courts, especially the federal district courts, but in this case, in the Abrego Garcia case, you also had that 9-0 decision from the Supreme Court saying the Trump administration had to facilitate his return to the United States. You and I know we don't see very many 9-0 decisions out of the Supreme Court. And a Reagan court appointee at the circuit court level said this was a textbook case of violating someone's due process.
So, this is one where the administration from day one, as I said, has lied, tried to cheat, and now try to bring a vindictive prosecution against him simply for asserting his constitutional rights.
SCIUTTO: Now, to date, when this administration and the DOJ for that matter, have run into brick walls, they've taken another shot at the brick wall in effect, right? And I wonder, do you see the administration? I don't know if learning the lesson is the right is the right phrase. Maybe it's just changing tactics as they run into judges who just aren't tolerating some of these charges and cases? Or do you see them just forging ahead?
VAN HOLLEN: Oh, I think their pattern, Jim, is to be -- is just to forge ahead. Look for another way, whether it's a legal means or not illegal means. In this case, you've seen White House officials, you know, attacking the judge in Maryland, the federal district court judge in Maryland.
That's their M.O. Whenever they don't like a decision, they attack the judge. I suspect that they will continue to do that. But that being said, the courts have, in my view, provided at least some line of defense for our Constitution. And that has been a very important, very important point in all of this.
SCIUTTO: Changing topics, if I can for a moment, I want to return to some exclusive reporting from myself and my colleagues, Natasha Bertrand and Zachary Cohen last night that the U.S. struck a port facility in Venezuela, a CIA operation, as we understand it. You have called previous strikes on boats both in the Pacific and the Caribbean a war crime.
What is Congress doing or able to do to restrict these operations as they appear to be expanding?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, Jim, yes, this is all part and parcel of a grossly illegal activity in violation of international law. [16:10:03]
And make no mistake, this has nothing to do with stopping drug running to the United States. You know, fentanyl does not come to the United States from Venezuela. The president pardoned, you know, the formerly convicted head of Honduras who'd been convicted of drug running. This is all about trying to achieve regime change in Venezuela in order to get his hands on the oil.
Donald Trump and his family and their billionaire buddies want to get their hands on Venezuelan oil. That's what this is all about. Congress needs to continue to push for a War Powers resolution. We have done that. Unfortunately, Republicans in the Senate are willing to give Donald Trump a blank check.
I mean, that's been a just a pattern of negligence we've seen from day one.
SCIUTTO: I spoke to Republican Congressman Don Bacon yesterday who shares your view that the expansion of this military activity requires congressional authorization. A handful of other Republicans who said something similar in the House. Do you see any, as you speak to your Senate colleagues, Republican Senate colleagues, any change to their view of this as the administration expands strikes? I mean, this is a strike on land now, this CIA operation.
VAN HOLLEN: Well, you're right, Jim, we've seen a constant escalation. We've also seen very clear testimony now that this has been about regime change. Weve also seen lots of reports that this is about, you know, getting Trump administration hands on Venezuelan oil.
So, you would hope that our administration, our Republican colleagues would begin to see through this ruse. They've been -- they've been too fearfully politically, to take on the president on this and so many issues. But maybe, maybe as the president's popularity declines, as you know, people are continuing to be upset about, you know, an economy that's not delivering for them. Maybe Republicans will finally begin to step up and do their constitutional duty. I just can't predict right now.
SCIUTTO: Senator Chris Van Hollen, we appreciate you joining us this afternoon. Happy holidays to you and your family.
VAN HOLLEN: To you, too, Jim. Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, more on our exclusive reporting on that CIA, CIA strike at a U.S. facility at a facility in Venezuela, which was revealed notably by President Trump himself.
Plus, the Trump administration says it is investigating allegations of widespread fraud in Minnesota. At the center of it all, a viral video, a MAGA youtuber and the president's open disdain for the state's Somali immigrant community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That beautiful land, that beautiful state, it's a hellhole right now, and the Somalians should be out of here. They've destroyed our country, and all they do is complain, complain, complain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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SCIUTTO: A CNN exclusive now, sources telling me and my colleagues that the CIA was behind what is believed to be the first American airstrike on Venezuelan soil. Those sources say that earlier this month, a drone targeted a remote coastal site that the U.S. government believes was connected to the Tren de Aragua gang's drug operations. This exclusive reporting follows on President Trump's surprising disclosure in public of this covert strike late last week, and of new details about it just yesterday
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There was a major explosion in the dock area, where they load the boats up with drugs. They load the boats up with drugs. So, we hit all the boats and now we hit the area. It's implementation area. That's where they implement. And that is no longer around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: As Trump's campaign against Venezuela escalates, the U.S. military announced that it has struck another alleged drug boat. Southern Command released this video showing the moment it destroyed a vessel it says was operated by a terrorist organization engaged in drug trafficking. We've heard that phrase narco terrorist a number of times. The military says the two men on board were killed.
My panel here with me on THE ARENA. Terry Moran, journalist and the host of "The Real Patriotism" podcast; Kim Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst. Plus, Chris Meagher, former deputy press secretary in the Biden White House. Doug Heye, Republican strategist, former communications director for the RNC.
And we're joined by CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger, who also works for a newspaper called "The New York Times".
David, first to you, I wonder why, given the number of days since this strike, Venezuela, the government of Nicolas Maduro has not said anything about this yet.
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's a really interesting question, Jim. I mean, first, the fact that you've got what appears to have been a covert operation revealed again by the president of the United States, right? Second, the fact that, as you're reporting shows and confirmed by the -- by the times and others that this was a CIA operation. Big question is, why is the CIA out, you know, blowing up small docks, you know, in Venezuela for drug trade? Doesn't seem to be like CIA worthy, right?
And the answer to that question may well be that if you had the military do this, it would then raise the question which you were taking up just a few minutes before the break, about why it is that the United States has not gone or the administration has not gone for an authorization for military force, a declaration of war.
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They're using the CIA because its a cut out from around the need to go do this more legal procedure, right? Otherwise, why do you spend the time of having CIA agents blow up small docks into which small time traffickers are loading a modest amount of heroin that probably isn't headed to the United States?
SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, why, you have, what, more than a quarter of the U.S. Navy position now within range of Venezuela.
To David's point about the revelation of this covert, once covert operation, I want to play the moment President Trump revealed the operation for the first time last week. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We just knocked out -- I don't know if you read or you saw, they have a big plant or a big facility where they send, you know, where the ships come from. Two nights ago, we knocked that out. So, we hit them very hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Okay. So, remember those words because at an event earlier this month, which our producer discovered, the president was asked if he would seek any authorization from Congress for any land attacks on cartels in Venezuela. Note his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I wouldn't mind telling him, but, you know, it's not a big deal. I don't have to tell him. It's been proven, but it wouldn't. I wouldn't mind at all. I just hope they wouldn't leak it. You know, you have people leak it. They are politicians and they leak like a sieve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, after all that, it was Trump himself who leaked the operation. Terry Moran, explain his thinking here, because you'll often hear folks say, well, he's the president. He could declassify anything he wants. And while that's true, presumably to some end and with some process or justification, but it seems like he just told a radio show.
TERRY MORAN, JOURNALIST: Yeah, that's Trump. You asked me to explain Donald Trump's thinking. I'm not going to go there.
But what I can do is, is say what I think is necessary. Where is the president leading us? Where is the president leading this country? What is the justification? What is the end game?
We need a robust debate about the use of force and the end game in Venezuela. And unfortunately, the Republican Party is well out of the habit of debating anything Donald Trump wants. But this is a moment with this vast armada sitting there and the ratcheting up of pressure and the talk of regime change. Why? What's in our interest, what's going to happen?
SCIUTTO: And how far does it go?
Doug Heye, beyond the legal questions, the policy questions, there's a political question. Do Republicans want the U.S. to go to war with Venezuela?
DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: This certainly doesn't sound like America first. And while Donald Trump is having somewhat of an Austin Powers no internal monologue moment when Mr. President, please have an internal monologue when you're talking about these things and not talking about them in public. The timing on this is also, I think, pretty specific.
Congress is out of session, right? Obviously, it's the holidays. Congress is nowhere near Washington, not going to be back for a week. So, Donald Trump is a long time between now and then. And he knows that we all have short memories. And Donald Trump is very skilled at making sure that what we talk about on a Thursday is not what we were talking about on Monday. So, will we be talking about this outside of committee hearings when congress comes back? I'm not sure.
SCIUTTO: Okay. Theres still a lot of force arrayed there. And I wonder when you were in the Biden White House, was this how the use of military force was debated, or the intra, you know, the intra party policy planning, et cetera and --
CHRIS MEAGHER, FORMER CHIEF PENTAGON SPOKESPERSON: I mean, the key word to all of this is covert, right? And it's one of the reasons why they use the CIA in the first place. And then the president went and blurted it out. You know, I think to Terry's point, one of the big issues here and the reason why Congress needs to be debating this is they haven't expressed an intention on what they're doing in the -- in the Caribbean.
You could ask three different White House officials why they're in the Caribbean, and you probably get three different answers, you know, is it oil? Is it drugs? To the senator's point, the president just pardoned the Honduras ex-president, who was a drug trafficker himself. So, it can't be drugs.
What is the reasoning behind this great buildup in the Caribbean, especially when you have so much happening around the world? He had Netanyahu to Mar-a-Lago yesterday. He had Zelenskyy. We have the Chinese conducting a huge drill right now in Indo-Pacific. And our focus is somewhat -- somehow on the Caribbean.
HEYE: Three different answers is part of a strategy, by the way, because that means the press has to go one, two, three. MEAGHER: Yeah.
HEYE: And they keep making that movement. It pushes things back and back. And that, Trump feels, works in his favor.
SCIUTTO: Well, it may be more than one, right, because there's some thought that Stephen Miller loves this because it gives him more justification to deport more people, and that perhaps Marco Rubio is in favor because there's a tie to Cuba and pressure on the Cuba government. That depends on Venezuela.
But when you look at this, Kim, the thing is, the president's not just exercising military action there. He just ordered strikes in the middle of the African continent, right? Deadly strikes on what they say were ISIS targets in Nigeria.
[16:25:02]
He just yesterday, alongside the Israeli prime minister, said, yeah, I might very well go back and strike Iran.
Is there -- do you get the sense that there is a discussion and a strategic conversation going on in the White House to prioritize these things, or are they just coming out of the -- off the top of the head of the president?
KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It feels like Donald Trump has a fly swatter that's actually armed with ballistic missiles that he wants to smack a problem, be done with it. He asks his policy advisers, what can we do? What can we do now?
But, you know, this ratcheting up of pressure works both ways. Yes, it's ratcheting up on the maduro regime, but it's also, coming back on him. People are asking him, well, what are you going to do? Youve got this armada off the coast of Venezuela. You're interdicting and blowing up boats. How long is this going to take?
And so, you get the sense that in the Oval Office he said, lets do something. And so they said, okay, we can do a drone strike. That doesn't solve the problem, but at least in a performative way, he can turn to his base and say, look, I'm doing something.
SCIUTTO: Right. I mean, listen, and there are costs, right? Certainly. And there are also risks to the military personnel involved. Thankfully, they've been safe today.
Kim, David Sanger, thanks so much, both of you.
I'm going to ask the panel to stick around. We've got more to discuss.
Up next in THE ARENA, why the Trump administration is surging federal resources to Minnesota now after a video alleging childcare fraud went viral.
Plus, in less than 48 hours, New York City will have its first socialist mayor. We dive into what to expect from Mamdani's inauguration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY: The conventional wisdom would tell you that I am far from the perfect candidate. I am young, despite my best efforts to grow older. I am Muslim. I am a Democratic socialist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[16:31:29]
SCIUTTO: Right now in Minnesota, federal law enforcement officials are surging into Minneapolis to investigate allegations of widespread fraud. The Department of Homeland Security, sharing this video showing agents going door to door at businesses it says are suspected of abusing federal funds.
All of this surge of law enforcement resources coming after this viral video created by MAGA YouTuber Nick Shirley, shared widely by Trump administration officials. In the video, Shirley visits businesses connected to Minneapolis's Somali immigrant community, businesses that he alleges are abusing or stealing taxpayer dollars. The video, however, contains little evidence to back up those claims, and surely has previously created and shared anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim videos. That context is important.
Our correspondent Whitney Wild is on the ground in Minneapolis.
And, Whitney, you've been reporting out this story. What are the facts of the story?
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, the facts are this there have been cases of fraud that have plagued Minnesota for many years. You hear this behind me, Jim? This is the latest fact here on the ground, that YouTuber Nick Shirley is back here at the daycare center. He's coming over. We're going to get you in a minute.
We already spoke with Mr. Shirley. That is the YouTuber who has kicked off this enormous firestorm. It is Nick Shirley's video that has caught the attention of Elon Musk, of J.D. Vance, of Attorney General Pam Bondi, Kash Patel responding, as you said, the Department of Homeland security now saying that they're launching investigations.
A source telling CNN's Holmes Lybrand that it was Shirley's video that prompted that.
Basically, what Shirley's video does is he's going door to door at these different daycares and, you opening, you know, attempting to open the door, attempting to talk to people. And his accusation is that he was up, you know, showing cases of fraud. Again, as we said, the facts here are that fraud cases have plagued Minnesota for many years. As far back as 2015, there have been cases of fraud involving daycares
within the last several years that have been at least 80 indictments involving different types of fraud. Many people who are defendants in those cases are concentrated in the Somali American community here in Minneapolis.
It is a problem that has plagued Governor Walz for years. CNN wrote about this in October of 2024, and we've been covering it extensively.
Here is more from House Speaker Lisa Demuth. She shared her thoughts with us because she was -- it is her perspective that the responsibility for, you know, stopping this fraud really falls on Governor Walz. She says he did not do enough to hold leaders here accountable.
She is a Republican. She is running for governor. But again, she says that she's been trying to take measures in the state legislature to stop this flow of fraud for years. Here's more from House Speaker Lisa Demuth
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA DEMUTH (R), MINNESOTA STATE HOUSE SPEAKER: These are state dollars, but a lot of these programs have federal dollars in them, too. So we've had a lot of assistance from the U.S. attorney's office, where they have been noting almost $9 billion of fraud across multiple programs, not just child care, but non-emergency medical transport, autism services, adult daycare that we have been getting that attention a little bit more from the feds now, and it is needed.
The question begs, though, is why have the Democrats in Minnesota -- because they've been the ones in charge.
[16:35:04]
They've been in control of state government. Why have they ignored it for this long?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD: Jim, just again, for context, for what you're seeing right now. Again, Mr. Shirley and a man named David who also appears in this video, are back here at one of the daycares he featured. As you can see, you know, people are confronting him. He's speaking with people.
He's been here for about a half an hour or so. Back again at one of the scenes that he featured in his video. So that is the ground truth here.
Back to you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you just, Whitney, there were prosecutions, right, with dozens of people who were charged. Am I right in previous investigations of this fraud?
WILD: Yeah, exactly, right. There were -- there have been dozens and dozens of indictments for various types of fraud. I mean, there -- there's health care fraud. There were -- there was COVID relief fraud.
There were other examples. There was a program called the housing stabilization services that was rife with fraud there. The list of fraud cases here in Minnesota is, is so extensive that even when the U.S. attorney for Minnesota, announced their most recent indictments, they called it this ongoing fraud investigation.
So, it has been going on for quite some time. This is just the latest chapter in a story. We have no -- no indication is going to end anytime soon, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And we should note that there are some 100,000 residents of Somali descent in Minnesota. No, it is alleging and has no evidence that a large number of that community are involved in the fraud.
Whitney Wild, thanks so much.
We're going to turn now to New York City, where Zohran Mamdani will be sworn in as New York City's new mayor in less than 48 hours. The Democratic socialist, as he calls himself, will be flanked by two of the most prominent leaders of the Democratic Party's progressive wing. At his inauguration. He will be introduced by Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and sworn in by Senator Bernie Sanders.
Hours before his public inauguration, he will hold a private ceremony at an abandoned subway station beneath city hall, where he will be sworn in by New York Attorney General Letitia James.
Mamdani is the city's youngest mayor in more than a century. The first Muslim to be elected to that office. His road to city hall, a surprise from the very beginning.
We should be frank, is captivated national attention and caught the eye of President Donald Trump, who, despite falsely labeling Mamdani a communist, held a surprisingly chummy meeting with him in the Oval Office just last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think you're going to have hopefully a really great mayor. The better he does, the happier I am, I will say. There's no difference in party. There's no difference in anything, and we're going to be helping him to make everybody's dream come true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Helping him, not something he had said prior.
CNN's Gloria Pazmino is standing by for us.
So, I understand he has just announced some of his cabinet appointments?
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. In fact, for the past several weeks, Mamdani and his transition have been trying to put his cabinet together. They've had about two months to set up his brand new administration.
Today, he announced his chief corporation council. That is essentially the city's lawyer.
And he also named his deputy mayor for human and health and social services. She is currently the leader of Elmhurst Hospital here in New York City.
And for the past few weeks, you know, many of us have been watching the pace of these appointments. These are closely watched, mechanics here in New York City because it gives you sort of an early test and indication of how the administration is going to perform. So, Mamdani has named several appointments.
There are still some major jobs that he has yet to fill. For example, the school's chancellor, he has not yet announced that post. New York City is home to the largest school district in the nation, so it's certainly a high-profile appointment. And the question is whether or not he's going to be able to make those appointments before he takes office. He, of course, doesn't have much time left. He takes office on midnight on New Year's Day.
This is going to be sort of a big celebration down at city hall, with at least 4,000 people expected to attend the ceremony and many more who will be joining a block party that the transition is hosting for his supporters to come in and join on the celebration.
SCIUTTO: And, of course, New York still needs a rat czar, right? You remember that, Mayor Adams?
PAZMINO: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Being from New York, actually, you do kind of need a rat czar.
Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much.
My panel is here, joined now by CNN political analyst Seung Min Kim, White House reporter for "The A.P".
Listen, boy, he's got a lot on his plate, and he seems to be aware of it. He told "New York Magazine" yesterday, quote, I am not naive to the challenges that are ahead of me, but I also think that far too often the conversation around this job is spoken of in the language of challenge and responsibility and pressure. I often think in politics, how do I put this? Sometimes the choice is put in front of us are not the ones that they have to be.
[16:40:00]
He's got an ambitious list of goals. I mean, things like, you know, free grocery stores, the famous ones, right?
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
SCIUTTO: A free bus service, but also making housing cheaper and so on. He's going to run into a lot of challenges, you know, getting legislation passed right statewide. Can he achieve a significant portion of his goals?
KIM: Well, I mean, I think that's what happens in campaigns. You campaign in this lofty prose, and then you get down to the reality of actual governing. But you're certainly correct that so much of his news moves will be watched very closely, obviously, in New York City, but also nationwide as well, because he had become this national political figure overnight by the virtue of a surprise campaign and just how influential he has been in the Democratic Party, particularly with the endorsements that he has gotten.
I'm really going to be watching for the president, President Trump's continued interactions with him. What's been the most interesting thing to watch for me is just how Mamdani had been such a political boogeyman for the Republican Party for so much of this year, and then the president has this very chummy oval office meeting with him and kind of, you know, negates all of those attacks.
I know Republicans are still trying to tie Democratic candidates to Mamdani, but, you know, the presidents out there. I'm imagining you back in your RNC days, if top Republican figures had said, no, don't fire Pelosi. She's actually great. Yeah, you may not have been too happy with that. Well, that's interesting to watch.
SCIUTTO: Do you believe -- you heard the president say there next to Mamdani in the Oval Office? I'm going to -- I'm going to help him, right? Do you believe that that bromance is going to last?
MORAN: Well, no, it's bound to split at some point. But Donald Trump is a great American politician. He knows who's hot and what's happening, and he sees in this guy a sense of possibility to do something, try something new, solve people's problems and Mamdani understands that the future belongs to people who are brave enough to imagine a new one. And Donald Trump feels that.
SCIUTTO: Who does that sound? It sounds a little bit like the way Trump pitched himself. I mean, let's -- let's be frank.
So, I wonder, Doug Heye, I of course, Republicans are going to try and I was thought as I was watching Mamdani's comments there about, you know, I'm a proud, you know, Democratic socialist. That's going to be in some campaign ads right in the midterms.
Does that work for Republicans to, you know, much like as they've done with AOC, say here, this is the far-left Democratic Party I've been telling you about.
HEYE: It works to raise money. And so, in every fundraising aspect where they use Mamdani, they're going to make a lot of money on this. But how does it work as a campaign issue? Not much is one.
Look, New York City shares a media market, the biggest media market of New Jersey. Did it have any impact on the governor's race? No. Is it going to have any impact on congressional races? Probably not, unless he doesn't meet this moment that he's very enthusiastic for. And I say that because being a member of Congress or a senator is
actually pretty easy. You vote yes, you vote no. You give a speech, you go home.
SCIUTTO: Right.
HEYE: When you're a mayor, a governor or president, you're a doer. So what happens when he butts heads with a with a labor union as a Democratic socialist? How does he interact with the construction industry? Huge in New York City. It's a very different game.
SCIUTTO: And I wonder, should Democrats be learning from him? Because, as you know, many Democrats were hesitant to -- I mean, even Jeffries and Schumer to New Yorkers, to Chris, I called you editor because I have a colleague with the same last name, Chris -- were reluctant to, and of course, he won. And he won big.
I mean, should Democrats be learning from him as opposed to saying, I don't really want to touch him?
MEAGHER: Of course, I think his optimism and his hope for the future really resonated with people. And not only that, he's laser-focused on affordability.
The prescriptions might look differently across the country.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MEAGHER: You saw in New Jersey with Mikie Sherrill just across the Hudson River. She was talking about affordability in a much different way than Mamdani was, but she won by 14 or 15 points in her race. Abigail Spanberger in Virginia. She also was laser focused on affordability.
So, of course, there are lessons to be learned. We're not going to go out and you know, try to implement the same policy agenda that Mamdani is going to implement in New York city, in places like Iowa or Texas or Ohio or some of the places where we think Democrats can be competitive in 2026.
But there's an opportunity if we remain laser focused on those kitchen table issues that keep families up at night every single day, to really move the country ahead.
SCIUTTO: Listen, watch who wins, right?
MEAGHER: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: This guy won. He must have something right.
All right, stand, stay -- stand with me. Ahead on THE ARENA, the Kennedy Center picked up Trump's name, and now it's losing many of the performers who were scheduled to perform there in 2026.
Ahead, how Trump is rebranding the country and how it's impacting his support. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We saved the building. The building was in such bad shape, both physically, financially and every other way, and now it's very solid, very strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:49:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Kennedy Center is really -- really back strongly. We saved the Kennedy Center, and I was really -- this was brought up by one of the very distinguished board members, and they voted on it. And there's a lot of board members, and they voted unanimously. So, I was very honored by that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump claims he is saving the Kennedy Center. A fresh wave of cancellations has, in fact, hit the cultural institution after Trump's name was added to what is by congressional action, JFK's memorial.
The Cookers, a jazz group, scheduled to perform two New Year's Eve performances, they canceled.
Folk singer Kristy Lee also canceled her show in January. And New York based dance company Doug Varone will not perform in April.
Trump's name changes are just some of the things Karl Rove says in "The Wall Street Journal" today are the ugliest about 2025.
[16:50:06]
Quoting now, "He's gone way too far by slapping his name on buildings. He might receive a fawning reaction from his MAGA base, but the average American finds such narcissism off putting.
Back with the panel now here.
Doug Heye, because it's not just the Kennedy Center. That's the one that perhaps is most sensitive. I mean, it was created as a living memorial to an assassinated president in 1971 by congressional action. He put his name not just on it, but above John F. Kennedy's name. There's the Trump class battleships, the Trump gold cards. The Trump Institute of Peace.
Is this popular with any Republicans?
HEYE: To the extreme part of the MAGA base that wears the red hat all day, every day, never take it off, even when they're asleep? Sure. For the rest of the country, not necessarily. But I would argue this is what Donald Trump wants you to talk about.
If you say he's tacky and he has too much gold in the White House, you're not talking about the fact that people go to the grocery store, come back and are upset. You're not talking about the fact that most Americans feel that the country is moving in the wrong direction.
So, talk about the Trump Kennedy Center. Talk about Trump steaks or Trump battleships, whatever it may be. If the conversation is about Donald Trump specifically, he feels in a good place.
SCIUTTO: But does that -- was that work when it show? One could argue, right, that it exacerbates the issue because if I'm saying I've got an affordability problem at home and he's slapping his name to all these expensive artifacts -- I mean, does that help him politically?
MEAGHER: Look at his ratings. His ratings are in the 30s, right? You know, he finally has come around to talk about affordability, but he's calling it a hoax. You know, all people care about is whether they can wake up in the morning and feed their kids breakfast and get them off to a good school, pick them up, be able to take them to the doctor and afford that, that health care, you know, and Donald Trump is worried about where his name is appearing on buildings.
It's completely convoluted and it's going to pay. It's going to be a big trouble for Republicans in 2020.
SCIUTTO: I mean, Joe Rogan was talking about it quite critically on his podcast.
Seung Min, there's also a legal question here because I mean, Kennedy Center, for instance. I mean, that's created by an act of Congress, right? Is it -- is it legal?
I mean, sometimes these things just happen and folks are like, well, I mean, it's legal if he can get away with it.
KIM: Right. Well, we have a lawsuit filed by one of the ex officio members of the board who is a member of Congress.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KIM: And I'm really interested to see how that would play -- how that legal case would play out, because legal experts say it's pretty clear that renaming -- naming and renaming is done by Congress. And but -- to me, that's why the whole the renaming Kennedy Center, obviously, it's about the president being fixated on branding. So much of Washington around it. But to me, it's really a story of, again, Trump versus Congress.
And if you compare the first term to the second term, Trump -- the president has been so much more aggressive in pushing back. And, you know, sometimes even overriding congressional powers, whether it's on something major such as strikes abroad or on something that may seem trivial, such as the naming of a performing arts institution, you don't see the -- you don't see the pushback that you at least saw in parts. At parts during the first term. I think it's just a completely different Congress now.
SCIUTTO: I imagine, Terry, we should expect more of this in the next year. There's talk of Dulles Airport suddenly changing its name.
MORAN: Right? It's lawless, right? It's lawless. It's beyond the law like much else he does. It's Congress named it. That's a law. He's breaking the law. He doesn't care.
And it's un-American. It's un-American because no president broke with this tradition. No president has ever self-commemorated like this. Not George Washington, not wrote -- Franklin Roosevelt, none of the Roosevelts, not Ronald Reagan, because it's been considered monarchical and anti-American.
But his ego overrides the law. And that solemn tradition and people eat it up.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. Trump class ships. I mean, typically you name them after folks who have passed away, right? Or did service for their country.
HEYE: If Trump wants to name Dulles Airport after him with the whole list, awful people mover hellscape the Dulles Airport is, go for it.
MEAGHER: Happy to have him on that one.
SCIUTTO: Thanks to the panel. Thanks so much. Appreciate having you on the holiday.
Everyone stand by because I do want to turn now to tragic news. Just the most heartbreaking news related to the Kennedy family. Tatiana Schlossberg, an environmental journalist and the granddaughter of President John F. Kennedy, died today after a battle with a rare form of leukemia. She was just 35 years old. The JFK Library Foundation shared this photo with a message on behalf of her family, quote, our beautiful Tatiana passed away this morning. She will always be in our hearts.
In a magazine article published just five weeks ago, Schlossberg had announced her terminal cancer diagnosis. The second daughter of Caroline Kennedy, Schlossberg wrote movingly about the pain her passing would cause, saying, quote, "For my whole life I have tried to be good, to be a good student and a good sister and a good daughter, and to protect my mother and never make her upset or angry.
[16:55:08]
Now I have added a new tragedy to her life, to our family's life, and there's nothing I can do to stop it."
Just heartbreaking. And our heart goes out to her and her two children and her family.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to my panel. And best holidays and happy New Year to all of you and all of you for joining us.
Phil Mattingly standing by for "THE LEAD".
I'm going to leave you in Phil's good hands.
