CNN.com - Transcripts

Transcript Providers

Return to Transcripts main page

CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Trump DOJ Escalates Attack On Fed Chair With Criminal Investigation; Sources: 1,000 More Immigration Officers Headed To Minneapolis; Now: Minnesota Officials Announce Lawsuit Against DHS. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 12, 2026 - 16:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: And she said that the investigation is noting more than a, quote, "attempt at coercion".

[16:00:07]

So, listen, Jerome Powell is heading out. His term is ending in May. There is something that is going to be heading in guys. But ultimately, the question is, what does this mean for the president, that person who is going to be nominated and Jerome Powell? This creates a mess for all of them.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Certainly does. Vanessa, thank you so much.

"THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.

(MUSIC)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.

It's wonderful to have you with us on this Monday.

We're following breaking news on Wall Street. Markets closing just moments ago. The Dow actually ended the day slightly up after it took a dip this morning following the stunning news that the Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: This unprecedented action should be seen in the broader context of the administration's threats and ongoing pressure. The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates. Based on our best assessment of what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences of the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Pretty remarkable. This case centers around Powell's management of the multibillion-dollar renovation of the Fed's Washington headquarters. President Trump has repeatedly accused Powell of overspending on the

project, even confronting the Fed chair directly as they toured the building, standing next to each other together this summer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It looks like it's about $3.1 billion, went up a little bit or a lot. So, the 2.7 is now 3.1, and --

POWELL: I'm not aware of that.

TRUMP: Yeah, it just came out.

POWELL: And I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed. You just said you just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building.

TRUMP: But it's a building that's being built.

POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That actually played out live in this hour over the summer. The president has denied any involvement in this new investigation. Here's what he told NBC. Quote, "I don't know anything about it, but he's certainly not very good at the Fed, and he's not very good at building buildings," end quote.

Not everyone's buying it, though, even within the president's own party. This morning, Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski announced that shed talked to Powell, her takeaway, quote, "It's clear the administrations investigation is nothing more than an attempt at coercion," end quote.

And Republican Senator Thom Tillis, he wrote this quote, it's now the independence and credibility of the Department of Justice that are in question. I will oppose the confirmation of any nominee for the Fed, including the upcoming fed chair vacancy, until this legal matter is fully resolved," end quote.

So, Powell's term as Fed chair ends in May. Regardless of this case, President Trump will nominate his successor. But of course, it was Trump himself who nominated Powell to lead the fed back in his first term as president. This is a decision he has repeatedly and openly regretted in the years since.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If we had a Federal Reserve that worked with us, you could have added another 25 percent to each one of those numbers, I guarantee you that. But we all make mistakes, don't we?

Jerome Powell is not making it easy.

REPORTER: Do you expect the Fed to listen to you?

TRUMP: Yeah.

He should resign immediately.

I think he's terrible. I think he's a total stiff.

We're thinking about bringing a gross incompetence -- what's called gross incompetence lawsuit. Its gross incompetence against Powell. I'd love to fire him, but we're so close. You know, maybe. But maybe I still might.

HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA.

My panel is here.

We're also joined by CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes, who is going to get us started.

Kristen, pretty remarkable situation here. What are you hearing from the president from the White House?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, when I talked to administration officials, they are split on this decision to actually bring these charges. You hear from a number of people who say, rah, rah, lets' go, let's bring this against Jerome Powell.

But you're also hearing from officials who are very concerned what this means for the markets. Remember, there have been a number of officials who have been actually asking President Trump, encouraging him to tone down the rhetoric, telling him it was a bad idea to fire Powell. There was a moment in time in which President Trump was hell bent on this idea of firing Powell, but of course, he was convinced otherwise by some of those administration officials.

That is the same way they feel about this in general. Now, while you say it is stunning, it is not all that surprising that they actually ended up bringing this case. I will remind you that back over the summer you played that video there, but we also saw an escalation within the administration. We saw the head of OMB, Russell Vought, coming out with a letter accusing Jerome Powell of lying to Congress.

We saw President Trump in several loyalists on the National Planning Commission, all of them starting to raise alarm bells or sound alarm bells that Powell had lied to Congress, but then saying that they were going to get to the bottom of it and not going as far as to say what would happen if they did, in fact, find that Powell had lied through whatever investigation it was that they were believed to be conducting.

[16:05:20]

Now, Karoline Leavitt, the press secretary, was asked about specifically if President Trump had asked the Department of Justice to bring these charges. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Did the president ever direct DOJ officials to open an investigation into Powell?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No.

REPORTER: And can you reassure the American public that his longstanding criticisms and public comments about Powell had nothing to do with the investigation?

LEAVITT: Well, look, the president has every right to criticize the Fed chair. He has a first amendment right, just like all of you do. And one thing for sure, the presidents made it quite clear as Jerome Powell is bad at his job. As for whether or not Jerome Powell is a criminal, that's an answer the Department of Justice is going to have to find out. And it looks like they intend to find that out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And of course, we should note, and I know you mentioned this, Powell did respond in a very unprecedented video, image or video response, saying that this was all part of that pressure campaign, that President Trump and the administration had been putting on him to lower those interest rates.

HUNT: All right. Kristen Holmes, starting us off at the White House with that report. Kristen, thank you very much.

All right. My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN political director, the Washington bureau chief here, David Chalian; CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist, host of "The Interview", Lulu Garcia-Navarro; Democratic strategist, former senior adviser to the Biden-Harris presidential campaigns, Adrienne Elrod; CNN's senior political commentator, Republican strategist David Urban.

And we're also joined by CNN's senior legal analyst, Elie Honig. He's a former federal and state prosecutor.

Welcome to all of you. Thank you for being here.

Elie, I think I need to start with you on the legal situation here because what do you -- what do you think this is? I mean, is this just an -- what is this an example of? I mean, what is the administration doing with Jerome Powell?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, in a word -- in a word, I'd say payback. Kasie, I don't really think that's all that controversial. When you see multiple Republican members of the Senate and the House coming forward, as you highlighted in the introduction, basically saying this is uncalled for. Kristen Holmes just reported that there are people inside the White House who don't want to see this.

And I think there's a couple of things really motivating the pushback. One, the principle of an independent Fed is not a partisan principle that's not left or right, Democratic or conservative. I think there's people on both sides who want to preserve the Fed's independence.

And number two, the history and the recent record of these payback prosecutions is horrendous. Remember, this is the same DOJ that overtly targeted and indicted Letitia James and Jim Comey. Those cases have failed miserably. They were thrown out by a judge. Attempts to re-indict and re-indict Letitia James were rejected by grand juries.

So, I think it makes perfect sense. Whatever side of the aisle anyone's on to say this is a bad idea and this stuff isn't working anyway.

HUNT: David Chalian, the implications of this, as Elie just walked through, I mean, we saw what happened with James Comey, with Letitia James. President was very public in saying what he wanted. He was very public as we played at the top. There has been very public about his feelings about Jerome Powell.

But the implications for what he is doing here extend in many ways so far beyond where some of those other instances could, in terms of the sheer possibility for ramifications in the markets, national security and elsewhere.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Exactly. But Donald Trump has shown time and again that those implications don't necessarily interest him all that much. What interests him is, the, the prosecution of a declared opponent of his what I think is new here and is interesting is that we saw some, some of this happening with the vote on the war powers act last week, with the vote on the ACA, Republicans on Capitol Hill were a little quicker to come out today and sort of say, nope, this is not okay. We have to get this resolved pretty quickly.

Now, I'm not suggesting were in some new world, and all of a sudden, Donald Trump has lost the party. But I do think, you know, it's not just Lisa Murkowski. You saw Kevin Cramer, you saw, you saw a bunch of other folks.

Yes. Some, Harris district Republicans like Brian Fitzpatrick or Mike Lawler. But you're starting to see Republicans who pretty quickly not Speaker Johnson yet, who was like, oh, let the investigation play out. We'll reserve judgment. But others pretty quickly say, this is not the way we're going to do this. The Fed has to remain independent, and there's good reason for it.

HUNT: Yeah. David Urban, do you think he's gone too far with this?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The way French Hill, you forgot to mention French Hill. French Hill is not a --

HUNT: No.

URBAN: No flaming liberal. Look, I think the president has been using Jerome Powell as a foil. It's nice to have Jerome Pwell to be able to blame, you know, the economy on. Right? It's not everything's not roses and going exactly as you like.

[16:10:01]

So, you know, kind of castigate and blame Powell for not cutting rates. And you have somebody to rail against. I'm not quite sure that that we'll see Jerome Powell -- excuse me, Jerome Powell in cuffs, walking perp walk anywhere. I think it's -- it is, more hyperbole from the president, but I think --

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: But it's insane. But it's -- this is the head of the Fed. This is an independent agency. And so --I -- you know, one of the things that I find so --

CHALIAN: But Donald Trump doesn't care about that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, no, no, I understand, but one of the things that I find so frustrating in this era is that we keep on walking up to this line, surpassing it, walking up to another new line, surpassing it. And at what point do we say, hey, we are now in a -- in a place in this country and with this administration that were no longer -- oh, are they flirting with authoritarianism? Are they pretending to be authoritarians? When do we say, actually, this president has taken power and control and crossed every single line that has been actually put there?

HUNT: So, to this point, I want to bring this into the conversation because, Axios is reporting we're now, you know, taking a look at this. They say this, quote, a perturbed treasury. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent told President Trump late Sunday that the federal investigation into the Federal Reserve chair, quote, made a mess and could be bad for financial markets. That's according to two sources.

URBAN: Yeah. Look, so Trump won't like that, right. To your point, we get up there with, you know, our institutions. Fortunately, we they bend right like to David earlier pointed out on Letitia James or Jim Comey, right? President does these things get a little flex and things get back to normal? You have --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is normal.

URBAN: No, but I'm saying things will come back to normal. They come back --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But he doesn't seem to have the --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: You have the senate --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: To learn about Letitia James doesn't learn from what happened with Comey. Instead, what he does is say, actually, you know what? We're going to double down and now go after Powell.

URBAN: The amazing thing is, none of it matters because you heard Thom Tillis, right? So, none of it matters. So, Thom Tillis says, guess what? I'm not running for this. The beauty of the Senate, right? This is the beauty of the senate. He's got -- he's got another year or so to go. He can stay there forever. He says, I won't confirm anybody until, you know, until the cows come

home. If you prosecute this guy, your next -- your next Fed chair won't be nominated. I won't let it go through. So, it is a moot point. It will not happen.

HUNT: David, the president has clearly wanted to fire Jerome Powell this whole time. He's put it out there, but he has managed to restrain himself because apparently people around him are saying, don't do it. It would be bad. The stock market is kind of the one thing going right now in the economy for people, right? Like if you have a 401(k), you're fine. But otherwise, people are having a lot of trouble at grocery store, et cetera.

Why is he suddenly willing to put it at risk?

URBAN: I'm not quite sure. To tell you the truth, I don't know -- I don't know why you push. Listen, we're going to talk about this a little later. Greenland, right? You can put the entire 82nd Airborne Division in Greenland tomorrow, right?

Why? You need to own Greenland, right? I mean, there's a -- there's a difference. We can do whatever we want there. So, you can, you could -- you could fire Jerome Powell at any time if you wanted. Why push it across the line here?

CHALIAN: Don't you think the answer is because he wants the person that he's going to soon reveal the name of and appoint as the next Fed chair to lower interest rates, because he believes that. So is he -- isn't this all laying the groundwork for --

URBAN: Absolutely. But the first question the president asked, when somebody gets to the oval office is, are you going to drop interest rates? And how -- by how much? Twenty-five basis points, 50 basis points.

And then you're going to say 25 next, right? You know, they're going to -- you're not going to get that job unless you give the answer. You know.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And by the way, that might not be great for the economy.

URBAN: Well, might not be great for the economy. I think, you know, lower interest rates are good for people generally. But we'll see.

HUNT: Adrienne, what are you hearing from Democrats in your in your text messages today?

ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah, yeah -- a lot, a lot. Theres a lot of concern. And you're seeing you know, oftentimes you see sort of the progressive wing of the party and the moderate wing of the Democratic Party not always aligned, but they are certainly aligned on this. I was just looking at a tweet from Ro Khanna, who is making it very clear that, yes, Trump is mad at Powell because he won't lower interest rates, but he won't lower interest rates because of Trump's it. Trump is terror policy, and his erratic terror policy. So, people are very concerned.

You know thank goodness for Lisa Murkowski and some of these Thom Tillis and some of these moderate Republicans. But I agree with Lulu. Like, we cannot sit here and just say that this is -- he does these things, and then we're supposed to sort of be okay with it because he doesn't go as far as he says he's initially going to go. He takes a couple steps back like, this is very dangerous.

HUNT: Well, I would say also the lesson of this administration seems to be that he will say something and then he'll do it and he'll potentially go farther, as we've seen with Greenland and others. Elie Honig just to put a button on this, and the fact that Powell made the statement that he did last night, I found was pretty remarkable.

He has been very -- he is a very careful public man in public life, right? It's something that is typically expected from a chair of the Federal Reserve. I mean, every single word he utters can move a market.

[16:15:00]

What did you make of the fact that he did this in response to this reporting and how it plays into the legal aspects here?

HONIG: Well, two rarities there, Kasie. First of all, as you say, Jerome Powell rarely makes public statements. Second of all, a person who's under criminal investigation by DOJ. I promise you, any defense lawyer in the country will tell them you are not to say anything publicly because it could theoretically be used against you.

Now, I watched that video. I don't see anything really usable against Jerome Powell. If I could quickly just address David Urban's point earlier, my pal Urban. So, it's one thing if the president wants to choose Jerome Powell and use him as a political foil.

If you want to have political beef with somebody, go ahead. The problem here is using the Justice Department as a tool, because even I agree with you, David. He's not -- I think it's very unlikely he gets cuffed and indicted.

But even just being under federal investigation, I say this as someone who's been on the other side of carrying out these federal investigations is incredibly costly financially. It compromises people's careers, reputations, families. It's stressful. So it's not some small deal to use DOJ.

If they -- if there's a political score to be settled here, go ahead. But keep the DOJ out of it.

HUNT: All right. Elie Honig, thank you very much for getting us started here. Really appreciate it.

The rest of our panel is going to stick with us.

Coming up here in THE ARENA, we're going to go live to Minneapolis. Local leaders are scheduled to give us an update this hour as the White House surges more immigration officers to the city following last week's deadly ICE shooting.

Plus, a dizzying political timeline, all just today. Elizabeth Warren criticizes Donald Trump. Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren, and then she says the two can work together on some things and try to make them reality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): All of a sudden, Trump is starting to wake up to the fact that people across this country are more alarmed about their economic circumstances than they were a year ago, when Donald Trump was sworn in, and he realizes that there's going to be a lot of Americans across the country come November 2026 who are saying the buck stops with you, bud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:29]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: They've extremely politicized and inappropriately talked about the situation on the ground in their city. They've inflamed the public. They've encouraged the kind of destruction and violence that we've seen in Minneapolis these last several days. And I would encourage them to grow up.

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: She's calling Minneapolis like this dystopian hellhole. You know, how many shootings we've had so far this year? Two. And one of them was ICE.

Am I biased in this? Of course. And I'm biased because I got two eyes. Anybody can see these videos. Anybody can see that this victim is not a domestic terrorist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Tensions between federal and local officials in Minneapolis mounting over the weekend after an ICE agent shot and killed a mother of three Renee Good more than a thousand demonstrations were planned across the weekend -- across the country this weekend. Protesters demanding justice for Renee Good while calling for the removal of ICE agents from their communities.

In just a few minutes, Minnesota officials expected to hold a news conference. We will bring that to you. State officials have told CNN the Justice Department has blocked local investigators from participating in what was initially going to be a joint FBI and state criminal investigation. Sources also tell CNN that around 1,000 additional Customs and Border Protection agents are expected to deploy to Minneapolis. That's on top of the 2000 federal agents that were sent in last week.

CNN's senior national correspondent, Ryan Young, is joining us now from the ground in Minneapolis.

Ryan, what have you been seeing there this afternoon?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie, I can tell you, those officials doing those sound bites from the administration really have inflamed people throughout the city. They're hearing that over and over, and they really feel like they're not going to get the fair and unbiased investigation that they're looking for.

We talked to people all around this city who really say they want to see a better effort when it comes to analyzing this video, having a fair shake when it comes to this. But at the same time, they feel like they're being invaded. As you look at the protests from the weekend, we saw thousands of people hitting the streets and what were considered mostly peaceful protests. Have there been clashes from time to time and people trying to rile up and fight border patrol agents as they try to pull people in and detain them?

That has happened, and we've seen them use pepper ball agents throughout the city trying to stop people who are blowing their whistles or trying to interfere with them. But at the same time, the emotions here are so raw.

We were at the site of the shooting just this afternoon and talked to a man who was brought to tears by what he says is going on in his city. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: You felt a need to come here. What brought you here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fellow Minnesotan was killed. And I see order in our country, order in my state falling apart. And it's not a time to sit on the sidelines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Yeah. This shooting has been a call to action for some people. They are organizing throughout the city, passing out whistles, becoming a part of a brigade that kind of goes throughout the city looking to see what these border patrol agents are going to do. The real concern is that thousand additional officers who are coming to this city, the real fear here is that the interaction between the public and those new agents may just kind of spiral out of control.

But so far, when you talk to protest organizers, they say they're trying to remain as peacefully as possible in terms of their marches.

[16:25:02]

We went out to the site of the federal building where we saw some of those intense clashes last week. It was really tampered down so far, but it will be interesting to see what happens with these officials in the next half hour or so. When they make the announcements that they will make -- Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Ryan Young, for us on the ground in Minneapolis -- Ryan, thanks very much for that report.

All right. Our panel is back now.

David Chalian, I want to play a little bit more of our colleague, Jake Tapper's. Excellent interview with Kristi Noem from this weekend in particular, focusing on the role of federal law enforcement. And when Kristi Noem thinks or doesn't think that they should be defended the way that she is currently defending the ICE agent.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I want to show some video to you right now and ask what is the appropriate response for the police officers in this situation?

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

TAPPER: Those are law enforcement officers being physically attacked. By this standard, would any of those officers be justified in shooting and killing the people, causing them physical harm?

NOEM: Every single situation is going to rely on the situation those officers are on, but they know that when people are putting hands on them, when they are using weapons against them, when they are physically harming them, that they have the authority to arrest those individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: David Chalian, President Trump pardoned the people --

CHALIAN: They did have the authority to arrest those individuals who they were convicted in a court of law, and then the president of the United States pardoned the people that did that. So that's the path of how of how that went down with that comparison to January 6th.

I mean, I think, Kasie, at core, Donald Trump has and I look, I'm just looking this through a political lens at the moment. Donald Trump has given up an enormous political strength of his, which was border security. And like the country was with him. On the need for the American border to be more secure and to get people who don't belong in this country out. The country was on board with that.

What Donald Trump has chosen to do is pursue this in a way, with this ICE enforcement that the American people are not on board with. And he has given up a strength to now absorb what is going to be is today and will continue to be a political weakness for him for as long as the administration continues to pursue these policies.

HUNT: So, you do think that he has gone to a place that the American public hasn't followed him on this?

CHALIAN: I think that's pretty clear from every piece of research data I see. And I think you hear it from Republicans, too, where they're -- they draw this separation and this line that I'm talking about right now because they see where it is politically popular and where it crosses over to something that is politically harmful.

URBAN: Yeah. Look, I agree with David Chalian on this. You know, huge political strength of the president. Get bad hombres out of the country. People wanted to see drug lords, bad people snatched up and taken away.

They don't want to see people who are doing drywall, sheetrock, gardeners, nannies, zip tied in the CVS parking lot, right? Barack Obama found this out, right? Obama was a deporter in chief.

But what Obama did differently than this president was, Obama took people as soon as they got across the border, deported them. They may have been in the country a day or two, deported them. Obama didn't go into the homeland. He didn't go into the cities. And when he did, he got big pushback.

So, he didn't do that, didn't deport people in that way because he found out that if you go into people's neighborhoods and take their nannies, it's wildly unpopular, right? This is it played itself out during the Obama administration.

Obama deported about 5.2 million people. Clinton deported about 10 million people, far more people than Trump administration is doing. They did it differently. They did it.

People were just coming across. They kicked them right out immediately. These people who are being deported now, being snatched up, have been embedded into this society a little bit more deeply.

And so, they have relationships in the community, and their friends and neighbors take great umbrage wanting to get zip tied. And this playing out on the evening news is not doing well in those Mike Lawler districts in the -- Brian.

CHALIAN: Don't take our word for it. Take the president's own words in your paper. In the interview last week, when he sat down with four of your colleagues in the Oval Office, and he was asked and talked about exactly what David Urban is describing and expressed real dissatisfaction, the way that the Koreans were handled in the South Carolina plant.

Right. Or Georgia plant? The way that members of the community or agriculture, you could hear him in that interview, in his own words, carving out the concerns he has around the some of these actions.

HUNT: So, we have a little bit of breaking news in here. And this has to do with what were hearing from local officials in Minnesota momentarily.

[16:30:00]

The state of Minnesota is suing the Trump administration. They are arguing that the widespread federal immigration operations in the state amounts, to, quote, "a federal invasion of the twin cities". That is, according to a lawsuit that was filed Monday. Elie Honig, I'm told you've read through a little bit of this lawsuit.

Can you help us understand what the states saying and whether you think it's the best ground for them to be standing on here?

HONIG: Yeah, Kasie. Well, the lawsuit just became public. I've had a chance to look at the high points of it. It's 80 pages long. This is a lawsuit brought by the state of Minnesota signed by the state attorney general, Keith Ellison.

It's filed in federal court, and it's asking this federal judge to do a couple of things. First of all, to declare ICE's presence in Minneapolis unconstitutional and unlawful. And then also, there's a whole list of demands about the way the ICE goes about its policing. Essentially, the state is asking the federal court to oversee and manage and limit some of the tactics that ICE has been using.

If you look at this complaint, essentially it lists out the recent history of this surge of ICE agents into Minneapolis. And it does mention prominently the recent fatal shooting of Renee Good. That's a key component of this lawsuit.

My first reaction to this, Kasie, is this is a tremendous legal long shot by the state here. The question really is not is it wise or unwise for ICE to have federal agents in Minneapolis? That's up to ICE.

The purpose of ICE is to enforce federal immigration law, which is uniquely federal in nature. There's really no way for the states to enforce immigration law. And there may be remedies that individuals can pursue. If an individual is harmed, you can sue ICE for damages.

If there are specific instances where people are looking to prevent ICE from engaging in certain searches. If people have been arrested and have not been given their due process rights, they can sue. But I think this type of approach of the state asking a federal judge to wholeheartedly sort of across the board, just block ICE, I don't think it's especially likely to succeed in the courts.

HUNT: Yeah. Elie, one of the -- and forgive me, I just had a copy of this lawsuit put on the desk. So, I'm reading it here in real time.

But this -- on this first page, they say the operation in Minneapolis is driven by nothing more than the Trump administration's desire to punish political opponents and score partisan points at the direct expense of the plaintiff's residents.

I mean, in some ways, they seem to be making a political argument as well.

HONIG: Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's a political argument. It's not going to carry the day legally.

Whatever the president's motives are, if he's using ICE because he wants to make a statement, if he's using ICE to enforce certain laws that he thinks will be beneficial to him politically, that's not going to be a legal or constitutional basis for a federal court to say, yeah, you know what, the states right, you federal agents, you're out of here. You can't enforce federal immigration law in this entire state.

So, you know, the complaint is quite dramatically written. Theres a lot of high rhetoric in the complaint. But ultimately, I think it's going to face real constitutional barriers to success.

HUNT: All right. Well, Elie, you're going to stand by and watch this news conference with the Minnesota AG along with us when we come to that. So stand by for me.

My -- the rest of my panel is going standby as well. Coming up here in THE ARENA. Just why did Donald Trump call Elizabeth Warren today? The senator now giving us a little bit of insight into what he wanted to talk about, why a speech she gave this morning apparently struck a nerve with the president.

Plus, the Fast and Furious escalation between the U.S. and Iran, what the president and the White House are saying today about a possible military strike on the country as the regime in Tehran continues a deadly crackdown on anti-government protesters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): But bombing is not the answer. Plus, there is this sticking point of the constitution that we won't let presidents bomb countries just when they feel like it. They're supposed to ask the people, through the Congress, for permission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:59]

KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: -- of thousands of DHS agents into Minnesota. We asked the courts to end the DHS unlawful behavior in our state. The intimidation, the threats, the violence.

We asked the courts to end the tactics on our places of worship, our schools, our courts, our marketplaces, our hospitals, and even funeral homes. The deployment of thousands of armed, masked DHS agents to Minnesota has done our state serious harm.

This is, in essence, a federal invasion of the twin cities and Minnesota, and it must stop. DHS agents have sown chaos and terror across the metropolitan area and in cities across the state of Minnesota. Schools have gone into lockdown. Entire districts have had to cancel school for tens of thousands of students to ensure safety and offer online education because of the students and the parents fear of coming into the school.

Local businesses are struggling, revenues are down and some retail stores, daycares and restaurants have actually closed because people are afraid to go out and to do their shopping, whether they're immigrants or whether they are citizens of many generations. This surge has made us less safe. Thousands of poorly trained, aggressive and armed agents of the state of the federal government have rolled into our communities, overwhelmed our local police departments and law enforcement agencies, should be focused on our public safety.

But instead, many are dealing with the aftermath of DHS agents chaos and violence. I want to thank our law enforcement officers for doing a tremendous job under very difficult circumstances, not the people, but the federal government.

Minneapolis police have had to respond to more than 220, excuse me, 20 ICE related incidents like witnesses seeking people being pulled into unmarked vehicles by men in masks or ICE, abandoning vehicles on the street with people detained inside. This is an unlawful commandeering of police resources.

In just two days, responding to the chaos ICE has caused by -- has cost the city $2 billion in law enforcement and overtime expenses. Two days. And I wish I could stop there, but I can't because these poorly trained, aggressive and armed agents of the federal state have terrorized Minnesota with widespread unlawful conduct.

They're acting -- they're making unconstitutional arrests and using excessive force. DHS agents have barged into restaurants asking to access secure areas. And when asked to present a warrant, which is required by law, they respond, we don't need one.

DHS agents have arrested peaceful bystanders. They have fired chemical irritants at people obeying lawful, lawful orders while exercising their First Amendment rights. They have even done so at some of our most sensitive places, like Roosevelt High School here in Minneapolis. They have detained law abiding citizens, leaving them handcuffed for hours just because of the color of their skin or what they're wearing, or they speak English with an accent.

And on January 7th, 2026, a DHS agent shot and killed Renee Nicole Good, leaving her children without a mother and her 6-year-old son without either parent. This has to stop.

So, let's be clear, it never should have started. These agents have no good reason to be here. Minnesota -- Minnesota's non-citizen immigrant population is just 1.5 percent, which is a half, which is half the national average. Our states percentage is lower than Utah, Texas and Florida's. But none of those states have thousands of federal agents swarming their streets or harming their people.

The administration says that they're focused on finding criminals. Worst of the worst, they say. But many of the people the DHS is arresting in Minnesota have no criminal history.

That fits a pattern. In 2025, 93 percent of the people arrested by ICE had no violent criminal history, 65 percent had no criminal convictions at all. And randomly stopping people in the street because their skin color isn't the one that they expect or want, isn't doing a thing to help public safety. I've heard the administration talk about fraud. No, not the 43 fraud convictions the president has or the $43 million fraudsters the president has pardoned. But instead saying that ICE is here to look for fraud somehow. You

know, we work with federal government all the time. And if the federal government wants to help us with forensic accountants, we're open to that conversation.

But these ICE agents who are engaged in the behavior that they're engaged in are not helping public safety at all. Immigration enforcement agents aren't trained to investigate fraud, and randomly stopping people in the street because you don't like their accent isn't going to stop fraud.

So, enforcing federal immigration law and fighting fraud are just pretexts for this surge. The real reason? It's no secret Donald Trump and his administration have been targeting people, cities and states that don't agree with them politically. That's right.

He's singled out Minnesota countless times. He's called us corrupt and crooked. He's attacked our funding to the tune of billions of dollars, which we are challenging. And we fought back. Of course, he's attacked programs that Minnesotans rely on and try to shut them down and pay taxes for. And he's attacked Minnesotans with despicable, racist, xenophobic language.

The truth is, Donald Trump doesn't seem to like our state very much. But what's that about? He doesn't like our best in the nation, safe and secure elections. And sometimes, he doesn't like who we choose in them.

Just last week, Trump claimed that he won Minnesota three times, when in fact he's never won Minnesota. He doesn't like how we take care of each other, or how we make sure our kids have enough to eat. He doesn't like the strength that immigrant communities bring to our state, and he doesn't seem to like that we protect our neighbors no matter where they were born.

In short, Trump's tar --Trump's tar, the Trump administration's decision to target Minnesota and Twin Cities is motivated by a desire to retaliate against Trump's perceived political opponents, who are the people of the state of Minnesota and Twin Cities, rather than any good faith concerns about immigration enforcement, public safety or law enforcement.

[16:45:09]

In conclusion, I didn't have the pleasure and the benefit of knowing Renee Nicole Good, but a friends and family knew her as someone who was kind, someone who loved her family deeply, and someone willing to stand up for her neighbors. That sounds like the Minnesota that I know.

The administration wants to paint false political narratives about us, but we know who we are, and we know our rights. The Constitution gives Minnesota the sovereign authority to protect health and well-being of every single person who lives in our borders. The Constitution gives us the right to vote for who we want, pray however we want, and be whoever we want without fear of being racially profiled, assaulted, or killed in our own communities.

We're going to defend those rights because as much as they like to believe it, DHS is not above the law, and the people of Minnesota are certainly not beneath it.

Let me now bring forth my mayor, the mayor who's where I go to -- go home at night and is doing a wonderful job protecting our city, Mayor Jacob Frey.

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNESOTA: Thank you, Attorney General Ellison, for your leadership and your incredible team's work around this issue. Thank you to Mayor Her of Saint Paul for your partnership.

These are not normal times. And so the response that we are asking for from the judicial system and from the courts, requires that we file suit at this particular moment. What we are seeing right now is not normal immigration enforcement. We are not asking ICE not to do ICE things. We are asking this federal government to stop the unconstitutional conduct that is invading our streets each and every day.

You've seen the videos. At times, there are as many as 50 agents arresting one person. The scale is wildly disproportionate and has nothing to do with keeping people safe.

In Minneapolis, we've done work extensively with the federal government under multiple administrations to keep people in our city safe. We have worked with the DEA, the ATF, the FBI, the attorney, the attorney general's office, as well as the U.S. attorney's office to successfully drive down crime in our city.

We've seen the results of that work. But let's be clear, the stated reason of this federal government for bringing in this full invasion of ICE and border control is not safety. If it were safety, there would be other mechanisms to achieve safety. By the way, crime is down in virtually every category in virtually every neighborhood of this city. If this were about fraud, then you'd see an invasion, perhaps of accountants.

But that's not what you see. What you see is people being indiscriminately taken off our streets. Discrimination only takes place to the extent that determination has made that somebody is Somali or is Latino, or at least they look that way. And then there is virtually no discrimination thereafter.

Here's the thing -- you can't indiscriminately take people off our streets. American citizens off our streets. You cannot drag pregnant women through the snow. You're not allowed to take teenagers out of their car and detain them when they are, in fact, American citizens. That is against the law. In every state that is against our United States constitution.

And were feeling the impact here in Minneapolis, schools have closed. People are afraid to go to work, shop or seek medical care. 911 calls are up. Police resources are stretched thin. We have approximately 600 officers in the city of Minneapolis. Mayor

Her has approximately 600 officers in the city of Saint Paul. The number of ICE agents and border control are now in the thousands. They are in the thousands.

If the goal was immigration enforcement, if the goal were simply to look for people that are undocumented, Minneapolis and Saint Paul would not be the place where you would go. There are countless more people that are undocumented in Florida and Texas and Utah. Why are they in these much smaller cities in the middle of the Midwest?

[16:50:00]

The answer is very clear. It is politics. Florida and Texas and Utah are Republican states. The reason that Minnesota and Minneapolis are being targeted is because you've got a Democratic governor, a Democratic attorney general, and you got Democratic mayors.

We are doing everything possible to keep our cities safe through this unprecedented time. And at the same time, we have police officers that are tired we've seen damage substantially because were now having to pay a ton of overtime, millions of dollars of overtime for law enforcement.

Emergency operations have been activated across our city and state agencies, pulling focus on daily core services that we, by the way, are tasked with providing. Local police officers are being diverted from the very work that we need to be doing. And small businesses are losing significant revenue, with some, worried that they may not survive this at all.

People are scared to take their kids into school or daycare to go into work. They're going to have difficulty paying rent. There is no doubt in my mind the kind of action that the federal government is taking is not just mean-spirited, it's unconstitutional. In every one of us need to be standing up.

Let me give you another example. Just last week, a group of our city's public works employees were stopped by ICE agents. Three of the four employees were not white. The ICE agents asked to see the ids of the three nonwhite employees, and didn't even bother to ask the white employee for the identification.

Minneapolis is being treated targeted because we stand up for our neighbors and we welcome immigrants because we believe in the law. And as I said, frankly, because we are in a blue city, in a blue state. Donald Trump should know as long as federal agents are in our city acting unconstitutionally against our neighbors, we will continue to push back with everything we got.

And let me just take a moment to say how grateful I am to the residents of our city and of our state. Right? We are not victims in the city of Minneapolis. We've got heroes that are standing up for each other, that are standing by the neighbors that they love. And one thing that I can tell you for certain is that we aren't backing down. We don't retreat in Minneapolis. We don't back down in Minnesota. We

stand up against bullies. And right now, what we are asking for is an intervention from the court to push back on this unconstitutional conduct, pure and simple.

I'll now turn it off to Mayor Her.

MAYOR KAOHYL VANG, SAINT PAUL: Good afternoon, everyone.

Today, I am proud to stand with Mayor Frey and Attorney General Ellison to fight for our residents. This federal occupation of our cities needs to end immediately. Federal law enforcement is racially profiling our residents, creating mass chaos, and undermining the relationship between local government and our communities.

We will not stand idly by and watch this happen. With this collective action, we are taking a firm stance to tell federal law enforcement that this cannot happen in our country. It cannot happen in our state, and it cannot happen in Saint Paul.

Federal law enforcement is going far beyond what they can and should be doing to enforce immigration laws. They are endangering our community safety, straining our resources and sowing distrust.

While we know we can't control federal agents, we will pull every lever we have to fight back in every way that we can. They've come into Saint Paul and needlessly invaded our neighborhoods and homes. They're targeting us based on what we look and sound like. Our residents are scared, and as local officials, we have a responsibility to act.

I want to thank Attorney General Ellison and Mayor Frey for taking a united stance for the people of Minnesota.

And to our immigrant and refugee communities, let me be clear: you are a vital part of our city. You are loved and you are wanted, and you are important to the fabric of our state.

As a refugee who came to this country, this is the state that welcomed my grandparents here in the late '70s, allowed our family to break the cycle of poverty in one generation, educated us, allowed us to build wealth, and within one generation have a new -- a new family, a new family members that are educated and a part of this economy and this workforce that we need to continue to make sure that our state stays, that and that can't happen if ICE continues to run amok of our city and our state.

[16:55:00]

And so, we cannot let this federal administration divide us. We need to come together now more than ever.

Thank you.

FREY: Thank you. Great job. ELLISON: So now we have a few minutes for questions. I want to

acknowledge the vital presence of President Elliot Payne of our Minneapolis City Council here on behalf of all the council members, I think in the council representing the council.

Thank you for your presence here, sir.

And I also want to say thank you to all of our staff members who've worked so hard to prepare us for this moment. They all are very, very critical to the work that we do every day. And were grateful to them as well.

And they may help us answering some of your questions. We have about 15 minutes for questions. And so I'll -- I'll select the first person who I see -- Tom.

REPORTER: General Ellison, there's been some success in getting the National Guard out of some states with lawsuits like this. That was over a question of what the role of the national guard is. It's pretty clear what ICE's role is. Is that going to be make this, legal challenge more difficult?

ELLISON: I don't think so, because I -- I think the Mayor Frey said very well. I said as a as a statutory responsibility to do a certain job where our argument is they are exceeding that dramatically in unconstitutional, unlawful ways, violating our first and 10th Amendment Rights, our equal sovereignty principle and provisions of the administrative procedures act. They have to obey the law themselves as they carry forth their statutory duties. We argue they're not doing that. They have to do their they have to they have to operate within the law and the constitution.

Yes, sir?

REPORTER: -- from PBS Frontline.

ELLISON: Thanks for being here.

REPORTER: Thank you. Is this litigation aimed at restraining the use of crowd control weapons, less lethal weapons? Our whole crew got pepper sprayed today by federal agents. Are you aiming to do anything about that?

ELLISON: Well, one thing I'd like to ask you to do is to make a complaint and let make sure people know what happened to you and your crew. The, you know, part of what our case is about is first amendment protection. We believe that the federal government is persecuting the state of Minnesota because of our political views.

And that goes and look, the first amendment, the press is protected by the First Amendment and is vitally important in this moment when freedom of the press and every first amendment right is under a threat by the federal government. So I'm going to ask you to let us know what happened.

But, yeah, you know, we're trying to restore lawful conduct and make sure that the federal government operates within the boundaries of the law, which they're required to do.

Yes, sir.

REPORTER: This is really something that's obviously really ramped up in the last week.

ELLISON: Right.

REPORTER: What kind of timeline can we expect on this suit? What are you looking at with your office kind of expecting here?

ELLISON: Well, we filed a lawsuit already. It's in -- it's on file right now.

REPORTER: As far as --

ELLISON: Well, you know, you know, it's hard to predict exactly what the court schedule will be, but we are anticipating quick action. I don't know what any of my team members want to.

Brian, you want to respond to that?

BRIAN CARTER, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Brian Carter, special counsel to the attorney general.

I don't know if we filed quite yet, but we do have a motion for a temporary restraining order that's going to be filed today. We're going to ask that the court, hear that motion tomorrow morning. There's another similar motion in a in a separate but related lawsuit that's scheduled for that time. We're going to try and piggyback on that, and we're going to be asking for immediate relief.

ELLISON: Brian Carter, everybody.

Way in the back.

REPORTER: -- Saint Paul, have any specifics on overtime for police officers in Minneapolis? Had some stats.

HER: Yeah. We do know that our -- we have had more. Weve had to open our command center in order to monitor the city. Weve had to have all of our officers in uniform so that we do have information as well. And we'll be sharing more of that information in the days to come as it relates to this lawsuit.

REPORTER: Are those overtime costs likely to reach into the millions if this continues?

FREY: Yeah. The question is, are those overtime costs for Minneapolis police in Saint Paul police likely to reach into the millions? The answer is absolutely.

We have normal core functions that we are tasked with doing on a daily basis. We are required to respond to 911 calls. We are trying to prevent murders from happening and carjackings from taking place. And by the way, the work of our police has been driving down those

numbers substantially. Our police officers have performed admirably because they're not just doing their day-to-day job. They're also responding to countless 911 calls that people are being kidnaped, that agents in unmarked uniforms, in unmarked cars are simply taking people off the streets that are American citizens.

They're required to do the work to keep the peace. Our police officers are doing the work to keep the peace and to keep people safe.