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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Now: Search For Nancy Guthrie Extends Into Third Day; New Reaction To Trump's Call For GOP To "Nationalize" Elections; Soon: Trump Signs Funding Bill Ending Partial Shutdown. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 03, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:03]
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of people do agree with that. It's a very harsh gun carry law here in D.C.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, and they've only had that somewhat recently because of a Supreme Court decision. So very interesting.
Brian, thank you. Great reporting.
And "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts right now.
(MUSIC)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news, more questions than answers in the desperate search for Nancy Guthrie.
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.
It has now been more than 48 hours since Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year- old mother of "Today Show" host Savannah Guthrie, was reported missing from her home in Arizona. Investigators believe she was abducted. But at a news conference this afternoon, it was clear that there is still so much that we don't know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Any indication so far as to whether this was a random abduction or targeted?
SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: It's like I said earlier, you know, we're looking at all the leads and we don't know. We're going -- we're going to assume both sides of that.
REPORTER: Do you believe that one or more than one person was involved in the kidnapping?
NANOS: I just -- no clue. It could be one. It could have been more -- I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: Authorities are treating Guthrie's home as a crime scene. "The L.A. Times" reports that blood was found inside, and the Pima County Sheriff confirmed to a CNN affiliate that they are analyzing DNA evidence that was found at the scene.
In an Instagram post late last night, Savannah Guthrie asked for continued prayers for her mother. She wrote this quote, "Thank you for lifting your prayers with ours for our beloved mom, our dearest Nancy, a woman of deep conviction, a good and faithful servant. Raise your prayers with us and believe with us that she will be lifted by them in this very moment. We need you," end quote.
Investigators today echoing that plea for help from the public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON EDWARDS, FBI ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: We are looking at this from every angle, but we need your help. Every lead and tip is important. We are aggressively pursuing and looking into every single one. Again, please help us bring Nancy Guthrie home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
Our law enforcement experts are standing by. But we do want to first start with CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera. He is in Tucson, Arizona.
And, Ed, you attended that news conference earlier today. What stood out to you? What have you been seeing and hearing as you spend time in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What stands out is that we have three days, three days, four days, all of this. And there is still no clear indication as to where Nancy Guthrie might be. And if there's any really clear indication that authorities are getting tips and leads that are bringing them closer. There were several times during the press conference today where the sheriff said, we simply don't know where she is at this moment. So, it really, you know, leaves a lot of questions as to exactly how far along in the investigation there are.
The sheriff was asked about, you know, possible ransom demands and that sort of thing. They said they're taking every piece of evidence seriously. They're looking into everything that they will that they can possibly, look at, and they will continue to, to do that.
So, you know, we do know that there's a lot that they're holding close to the vest, and they don't want to talk about publicly. So, you know, at this point, they are continuing, Kasie, to ask the public. And as we walk around in the neighborhood here where Nancy Guthrie lives it's, you know, they've been asking for videos and photos from people's homes, and it's a very difficult situation because if you look around here, neighborhood where you see the other homes are spread out, there's many of them sit behind foliage. So, the idea that a ring camera in a neighboring house could have seen
a car passing by, or a suspicious person walking by, you know, it's very difficult to kind of find that particular --
HUNT: Yeah. We're having a little --
LAVANDERA: -- investigators are up against.
HUNT: Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, Ed. We're having a little bit of trouble with your connection. You're breaking up a little bit, but we absolutely appreciate you on the ground there.
Ed Lavandera for us. Thank you.
Joining us now, CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell, CNN senior law enforcement analyst, Chief Charles Ramsey, and criminologist and behavioral analyst Casey Jordan.
Welcome to all of you.
Casey -- or I'm sorry, Josh Campbell. Let me -- let me start with you. Because we do actually have new this just in from the Pima County sheriff's department. They say we're aware of reports circulating about possible ransom notes regarding the investigation into Nancy Guthrie. We're taking all tips and leads very seriously. Anything that comes in goes directly to our detectives who are coordinating with the FBI.
[16:05:03]
And they share this QR code.
So, they are acknowledging reports of a ransom note.
But, Josh Campbell, I'm interested in your assessment. I mean, you obviously worked in law enforcement, of what that could possibly mean. And also, if -- if or if normally there would be additional law enforcement investigative bodies, agencies that might be involved in something like this.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, that is an interesting post there from the sheriff's officials, acknowledging, you know, reports that there have been some type of ransom notes. I think they put, you know, plural. But they make the point that, look, were running everything down.
And in a situation like this where you have a high-profile figure, obviously, savannah Guthrie and her mother, now, the apparent victim here, that's going to drive oftentimes an influx of tips and the notoriety there is a good thing because authorities want more information, but they also have to sift through that to try to determine, well, what might actually be credible, what might be people who were just, you know, you know, for, for a positive reason, trying to help us out by sending something that's not even related to the case. And then there are always mischief makers who try to impede investigations. And so, sorting all of that out can be very difficult. One thing that
we did hear today, though, Kasie, from the sheriff, is the sense of exasperation. And I know that a lot of people are out there right now, are thinking, well, why haven't they solved this case? You know, it's over 48 hours old.
You know, I can tell you someone has worked in law enforcement. I've worked kidnapping cases that sometimes went on weeks. It is frustrating. It is exasperating. Sometimes you don't have the leads. You're in that information gathering mode where you're trying to assess what exactly are we dealing with here?
And, you know, even in law enforcement, there's this phrase called the CSI effect that, you know, juries and the public are so conditioned now by entertainment media that think that these cases get solved very quickly, rapidly, that there's, you know, amazing technology out there at the finger -- at the hands of every FBI agent and investigator that can quickly solve a case. It's just simply not true.
Now these investigators are out there, I can tell you, having been in this situation. It is gutting knowing yet another day has gone by. When you have a potential victim who is still out there, being held against their will. But that then fuels them and drives them to try to do more, to try to, you know, see if they can find that one nugget of information, that one piece of evidence that can then turn this investigation on its head into a hopefully a positive direction.
But the fact of the matter is, as exasperated and frustrated as everyone is, law enforcement, the public certainly. Obviously, the Guthrie family who our hearts go out to, this is oftentimes that time and investigation where they're just waiting for that big lead.
HUNT: Yeah, our thoughts and our prayers as Savannah asked for are definitely with them. Josh, is there something that could happen that would get another law enforcement agency involved in this?
CAMPBELL: Well, there are already a lot of investigators there. This is being led by the sheriff's department, but they are getting assistance from a host of agencies, including the FBI. I talked to one official who said that one thing they're doing is actually looking for cell tower data in and around that area. That is a specialty. The FBI often provides to law enforcement. When there's a fugitive or a kidnaping situation, to try to see if they can identify what cell phones were in and around that area during this period of time.
And then a lot of other agencies are doing things behind the scenes as well. The one thing I'll note real quickly, and you can see from Ed's signal there that it's very spotty. The point he was making is that this is a remote area. This isn't a major metropolitan area where you would have, you know, lots of cameras and license plates, readers and, you know, lots of cell towers and the like.
And so, the work is made very difficult by just that very characteristic of how remote this place is.
HUNT: Yeah. For sure. So, Casey Jordan, can you walk us through -- I mean, we know so little
at this point. We're now 48 hours out. What does that time frame mean?
I take Josh's point about the frustration among law enforcement. But does -- do leads that they do have go cold. What is the risk? Risk here? What would you point us to as far as trying to understand what might have happened?
CASEY JORDAN, ATTORNEY, CRIMINOLOGIST AND BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: I think that what they're really trying to do right now is figure out who would want to take Nancy and why. Obviously, we're all thinking that this could be tied to our daughter, Savannah, because even though she's not a political figure or a controversial figure, she's a very public figure. And there could be people, consumers of, you know, morning television who have decided that they want to punish her by taking her mother.
Now, you've got to understand that kidnapping is a relatively rare. I mean, compared to all the other type one crimes that the FBI handles, this is the sort of thing that happens so rarely that there's what we consider to be this huge X factor. It's extremely hard to predict what will happen next if you don't have any obvious suspects.
Now, Savannah is the sort of person who may have had threats against her or really, you know, malicious emails sent to her by, you know, fans.
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Well, the opposite of fans. But they're going to be having to sift through tens of thousands of contacts from the general public to her as a public figure, trying to figure out if there's a pattern there that could indicate who would want to harm her.
That said, this may not be related to Savannah Guthrie at all, but the fact that the police say they have no footprints, no tire prints that they've been able to find outside really does indicate that a lot of planning went into this. And it may be a very sophisticated perpetrator.
Yes, they have found DNA. They're getting obviously samples from the family that was in there for an hour before they called 911, but that doesn't mean that they have found DNA that helps them at all.
So, a lot will be revealed in the next few days. But yeah, we're beyond the 48-hour mark. And that's not usually good.
HUNT: Chief Ramsey, this acknowledgment from the sheriff about the ransom note. You obviously have led major police departments. I'm sure you've had some kidnaping related cases or ransom demands. Can you talk a little bit about what the protocols are around, whether you would make such a thing public, how you would decide if the if the note was legitimate or not?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I don't think he really verified that there was, in fact a ransom note. I thought he said it was a --
HUNT: They're aware of reports. They're aware of reports, yes.
RAMSEY: Yeah. Right. Of reports, that they're, you know, and if there was a ransom note, he would know it. He would have it, the FBI would have it. They would be trying to find it whether or not there's any fingerprints, they would read it to see if there's any clues as to who might be responsible for it.
I mean, I agree with both Casey and Josh. I mean, you know, this is a tough one now. And the longer it goes, the more difficult it is to really, you know have this -- have the positive outcome that you want to see. I mean, her health is a major factor in this based on the fact that she's not able to take her medication, the way she ought to be.
So, hopefully. And I pray that she's okay. But -- in the meantime, they're going to continue to just do everything they possibly can to try to find out, you know, who would want to take her?
Did she have any threatening letter? Did Savannah have one? Any other member of the family.
Was there a forced entry? Does it look like, you know, there was a, you know, a major struggle that might have taken place? I mean, there are a lot of things, and I'm sure they got a lot of information they're not making available. That's always the case in that. But that doesn't mean that they have a direction in terms of having an idea who might be responsible. And that's really the key is to find out who might be responsible.
HUNT: Right. And the sheriff just posted this on Facebook that Mrs. Guthrie's home had several cameras. Detectives are working with respective companies to determine the number of cameras and whether any footage is available. It also says that detectives collected DNA samples from the home that have been confirmed to belong to Nancy. At this point, the sheriff has not confirmed whether those samples were blood. They're not going to get into those specific details.
Josh Campbell, is there a reason if they are aware of a ransom demand, why they would keep that from the public?
CAMPBELL: Absolutely. I mean, I can tell you, if it turns out that there is an actual valid ransom, which again, they have not yet acknowledged there are multiple strategic ways, I'll put it that way, why an agency like the FBI and negotiators and these investigators would not want to make that public from the outset. And so, again, you know, they're only going to release as much information as they think actually will drive the direction of the investigation that they want to go.
And that is the calculation that the law enforcement always has to make. What do we put out there? What do we not put out there. Such an action, if that does develop, does not typically fall within the realm of them wanting to publicize. So, we'll have to wait on that end.
And then the final point I was going to note as well is that, you know, we can't forget the timing here. You know, there's this mantra in law enforcement that action beats reaction. The suspect acts, and the law enforcement has to catch up later.
We're talking about 12 hours, at least from when she was last seen, until when she was reported missing. That is a long period of time for someone to, you know, take her somewhere before law enforcement even arrived. And so, you can't lose sight of that time frame as well. They're already behind by the nature of when the disappearance was first learned.
HUNT: Yeah. All right. Chief Charles Ramsey, Casey Jordan, Josh Campbell, thank you all very much for that.
And of course, anyone with information is encouraged to contact the Pima County sheriff's department, 520-351-4900 or the FBI's tip line, 1-800-CALL-FBI.
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All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, Democratic Congressman James Clyburn is here live, as the stage is now set for tough talks over ICE reform after the House passes a bill to temporarily fund the agency.
But first, the new reaction coming in to a controversial call from the president. What the White House says he really means when he says he wants to, quote, "nationalize elections".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Voter ID is a highly popular and common sense policy that the president wants to pursue, and he wants to pass legislation to make that happen for all states across the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: What the president was referring to is the SAVE Act, which is a huge common sense piece of legislation that Republicans have supported, that President Trump is committed to signing into law.
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The president believes in the United States Constitution. However, he believes there has obviously been a lot of fraud and irregularities that have taken place in American elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The White House today walking back, maybe trying to rewrite President Trump's call for Republicans to nationalize elections. The SAVE Act that you heard referenced there, it's a Republican bill that would implement new requirements in order to register to vote.
Right now, you have to prove your identity. Under the SAVE Act, you'd have to prove your citizenship. But of course, President Trump didn't mention the SAVE Act yesterday when he said this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Republicans should say, we want to take over. We should take over the voting -- the voting. And at least many, 15 places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. We have states that are so crooked and they're counting votes. We have states that I won that show I didn't win.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump has, of course, repeatedly and baselessly claimed that the 2020 election was stolen from him. He has blamed things like absentee or mail in balloting, which, of course, was used heavily during COVID. It's used regularly by troops overseas, by students studying at a state.
And today, the House speaker, Mike Johnson, seemed to echo President Trump's claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We had three House Republican candidates who were ahead on election day in the last election cycle. And every time a new tranche of ballots came in, they just magically whittled away until their leads were lost and no series of ballots that were counted after Election Day were our candidates ahead on any of those counts? It just -- it looks on its face to be fraudulent. Can I prove that? No, because it happened so far upstream. But we need more confidence in the American people in the election system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Just to be clear, this isn't like we don't live in the wizarding world of Harry Potter. Theres nothing magic about how we count our votes when you count them, and they show one person is ahead, and then you count some more and it shows the other person is ahead, that -- that's actually real life.
With us now, CNN's senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, how is the White House handling this today?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, it certainly sounds like spin. I mean, his remarks couldn't have been clearer. He said that Republicans should nationalize the election, which, of course goes against the Constitution. And then he went on to say that there are 15 states or so that Republicans should take over when it comes to elections. And I also asked Karoline Leavitt about that. Take a listen
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: He said specifically that they should take over elections in 15 states. Can you tell us what he meant by that? What 15 states he's referring to in terms of Republicans taking over elections?
LEAVITT: Again, what I was just telling you is that with the passage of the SAVE Act, voter ID will be implemented across all 50 states. The president was referring to specific states in which we have seen a high degree of fraud. There are millions of people who have questions about that, as does the president. He wants to make it right. And the SAVE Act is a solution to doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So, a lot of questions still, because this is clearly turning the narrative from taking over 15 states and elections and nationalizing to the SAVE Act to talking about voter ID laws. But there's also another interesting part of all this, which is what Tulsi Gabbard, what is her role? I mean, she is the head of she's the director of national intelligence.
And there have been so many questions as to why she was in Atlanta during this search. She has said that the president directed her to be there, and Karoline Leavitt was asked about that as well. And she said that essentially, Gabbard was put in charge of election integrity and security. And it's something that she's been looking into.
Now, I talked to a White House official who told me essentially that this was Gabbard carving out some of her own lane, that she had been focused on these elections, partly because she doesn't get along with the head of the CIA, John Ratcliffe, and that this was a way for her to find another area to kind of focus on. And President Trump obviously wants to focus on it.
But it still begs the question as to what exactly President Trump meant when he talks about nationalizing it. And we will say, Kaitlan Collins is going into the Oval Office now for this bill signing that just got added to the schedule about a minute ago. And so likely this question might come up then as well.
HUNT: For sure.
All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you very much for that.
All right. Our panel is here in THE ARENA, CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist, Lulu Garcia-Navarro; CNN political commentator, Washington bureau chief David Chalian; CNN political commentator Paul Begala; former Republican congressman from Peter Meijer -- Michigan, Peter Meijer.
We're also joined by former Arizona governor and former homeland security secretary under President Obama, Janet Napolitano.
Thank you all very much for this.
David, I just ill start with you, and then I'm going to go to Secretary Napolitano.
How do we count votes in this country? Is it by magic?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: No. I'm glad you clarified that. It can't be that Speaker Johnson is really mystified how one candidate who could be leading when more votes get added to the total could be losing. It's because those votes didn't go to that candidate. So the candidate behind -- that's called tallying votes.
I do -- I think that, as Kristen pointed out, what is really amazing here to see is like, this is one of the -- it's a classic of the art form. This is one of those days where it's like the all the aides and all the allies come out. What he meant by that was. But it's not at all what he said.
And so, the SAVE Act seems to be the talking point from Karoline Leavitt, John Thune. Mike Johnson, you heard it all today. So, it went out to say to clean up those remarks of nationalizing elections, which is not constitutional. And, and this notion of just 15 states, you can't find that in the SAVE Act.
So, they decided like, no, what he meant, what he was talking about was the SAVE Act and that they thought was safer political ground to be on.
HUNT: Yeah. So, in just a few minutes, were going to see the president signing the bill to keep the government, the pieces of the government that are currently not funded, including the Department of Homeland security or et cetera., open. So we're going to take you to that when we -- when we get it.
And also, you actually -- I think probably heard about the SAVE Act first here on this site yesterday. We started covering this from you, Congressman Meijer.
But Janet Napolitano, let me bring you in to this before we kind of expand our conversation out, because of course, the president's comments come as we learned that Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, which, again, is not supposed to be gathering intelligence on U.S. citizens, was present at a raid of Fulton County, where they were looking for records related to the 2020 election.
And I just was hoping you would be able to weigh in to kind of give us a sense of from a security perspective, how secure are our elections, what this actually looks like and what the implications would be of what the president said here to, quote/unquote, "nationalize" elections?
JANET NAPOLITANO, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, American elections historically have been quite secure. And when I heard the press secretary say to protect against large amounts of fraud, that's never been substantiated by any evidentiary standard. There's a few isolated cases here and there, but by and large, votes are honestly collected, honestly counted. And the results are the results.
And I'll echo the previous speaker, it is not unusual for a candidate to be ahead early, and then another candidate catches up. It depends on where the ballots are coming in from and so forth. That's just a part of tallying the vote.
HUNT: Yeah, we often call it the mirage here.
Lulu Garcia-Navarro, I mean, what is the president doing here? What are his allies doing here?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I think this is, the sad fact of the matter is that we know exactly what the president is doing here, because we were all around on January 6th, and we saw his attempt to overturn a free and fair election. And we also have seen his continuing lies about the 2020 vote.
And so, this is more of the same. And what is so disheartening and so frightening is to see senior Republicans echoing that. And they've been doing that all day today on CNN and other places.
And so, when we look at how he views all of this, we know what's in his head and what he would like to see happen, because there is another election coming pretty fast and it's not looking good for Republicans. And he's been doing everything in his power to sort of derail what might be a very brutal election cycle for him and the Republicans.
And, you know, to see senior Republicans who should know better, echoing that is, you know, beyond the pale. And as you said, it's not magic how votes are counted in this country. It is actually pretty well-regulated.
HUNT: Paul Begala, I want to show you a little bit of how some Democrats in the Senate responded to this over the course of today. Let's take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): What it tells us is he's very worried about the outcome of that election, and he's prepared to violate the most basic constitutional guarantees in America.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Once again, the presidents talking no differently than a dictator wants elections in America to be as legitimate as elections in countries like Venezuela.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): It is brazenly unconstitutional and chillingly totalitarian. Americans should be afraid, very afraid the presidents going to be challenged in court. And I think its grounds for impeachment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Well, that escalated quickly.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not very quickly. Mr. Trump, three years ago, Kasie, published a tweet or whatever they call it, a stupid account. That said this, "Massive fraud" -- about his losing the election to Joe Biden, "Massive fraud of this type in magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations and articles, even those found in the Constitution."
[16:30:05]
Mr. Trump has more recently given an interview to "The New York Times", he wished he had seized the voting machines after the 2020 election. He has sent now the FBI --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: -- everybody that actually, yeah.
BEGALA: Right. He sent the FBI to Georgia to confiscate 700 boxes of election materials. This is after the Georgia election was certified by the Republican governor, the Republican secretary of state, and by the way, the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is a really wonderful police agency that they have in Georgia.
CHALIAN: After it was counted three times.
BEGALA: And counted three times.
He's -- he -- Lulu's right. He's going to have -- we're going to have a midterm election 272 days. If trends hold and they will, Democrats will win a landslide. If we don't sound the alarm now, if anything, these Democrats are understated, Donald Trump seeks to end our democracy.
MEIJER: Okay.
BEGALA: And if we the people don't rein him in, Peter, it is going to happen. We're going to -- we're going to have were going to have a test to see whether we can keep this republic, as Dr. Franklin said.
MEIJER: So this is all trying to parse this nationalized elections language. And I actually have a theory, because the weird thing about those comments was the 15 states, because that -- that number just seemed to come out of nowhere.
I think Donald Trump was actually referring to and buying into the disingenuous claims by Democrats about the SAVE Act, because there are 14 states that right now have no voter ID or other documentation at the polls. That's the only --
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But you understand how exhausting this is that you have to come on here and say, I think what he meant was, this is what my theory is, and that is what. And this is what we wrote over and over and over again, which is like trying to read into the most powerful man in the world's mind, when he says things that are anti- democratic and outlandish.
And so, you can't -- you can look at Democrats and say they're being absolutely, you know, hysterical. But what do they know? Or you can look at Republicans and say they're being absolutely disingenuous. And what do we know?
Because ultimately, what he says, everyone has to has to kind of wildly interpret because it has no bearing on reality, right? It's anti -- it's not constitutional and it's deeply, deeply, deeply not democratic.
HUNT: Well, I will say that whenever we find ourselves in a position like this where we are trying to parse what the president is saying, and it has to do with our elections, specifically this one, the 2020 election, but potentially future elections as well. I flash back to the period after Donald Trump lost the election to Joe Biden, and I spent day after day on the phone with Republican officials who kept saying, just let him have his moment. Just let him have his time. Let him work it out. He can go to court. It's fine.
And what did that culminate in? We all watched it happen on January 6th.
All right. Former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, thank you very much for being here.
The rest of our panel is going to stand by.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the fight over reforms to ICE now kicking into high gear on Capitol Hill. Congressman James Clyburn tells us how a mountain of issues can be solved within a two week deadline.
Plus, veteran of Democratic politics says where he put his money for the 2028 presidential nomination makes a bold prediction in the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: This is the best news for Democrats, that the party can possibly have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
CARVILLE: Just win. It -- if we nominate two white males, no one's going to give a shit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:41]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How hard is it going to be to get a deal with Democrats on ICE now?
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): It's very hard right now.
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): They continue to not operate in good faith, right? Over and over and over again. You know, if you feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football, right, and they're moving it all the time
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Any minute now, President Trump is set to sign a bill to end the three-day long government shutdown after House Republicans, with the help of 21 Democrats, passed a massive spending package this afternoon. That bill, though, just kicks the deadline for DHS funding down the road. The White House and Democrats now have two weeks to negotiate over reforms to federal immigration enforcement before funding for the agency once again lapses.
Joining me now, Democratic congressman from South Carolina, James Clyburn. He, of course, leadership emeritus, shall we say.
Sir, thank you very much for being here. Always grateful to have you.
You're one of the Democrats who voted with Republicans to put this package over the finish line. Can you explain why you disagreed with your current leadership over it?
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me. First of all, I think it's important for people to focus on the fact that this bill coming from the senate dealt with six different accounts in the appropriation bill. One of the accounts had to do with Homeland Security. And what this bill does is to put up a continuing resolution to keep funding Homeland Security at its current level for at least 10 more days.
And then it passed permanently, the five other parts of the bill, that's defense. That's transportation, all these other things. And it allows us to get the government back up and running, as people may not have focused on the fact that all of these five accounts brought things to a close in these agencies.
Now, these agencies will be back up and running while we continue to negotiate on homeland security.
[16:40:02]
So that's why I voted. Yes. And I think it was the right thing to do.
HUNT: Fair enough. Let me ask you about something else we were just talking about here on the show. And that is the president's call to nationalize elections. He particularly focused on 15 states. One of your colleagues in the Senate, Richard Blumenthal, called, said it was potentially grounds for impeachment. Do you think what President Trump said about nationalizing elections is potentially grounds for impeachment?
CLYBURN: Well, I have no idea what whether or not impeachment is the best reaction. That's the only thing that we can do. Maybe in the House, the Senate can't impeach. The House has to do that. And the Senate, the last time they got to impeachment, they didn't do their job with convictions.
So, what I do believe, though, it is time for the American people to sound an alarm. Just threatening impeachment in an atmosphere when all you're doing is going through a process. And it has nothing to do with what the Senate is going to do, which requires conviction for a remedy.
But there is a remedy taking place every day. We saw it in Texas last Saturday. We saw it in Virginia and New Jersey last November. And there are other special elections taking place all over where the American people.
HUNT: I want to apologize. I just want to let our viewers know, and you as well. We're watching the president here signing the bill that the House just passed to keep the government pieces of the government open.
Let's listen in. He's taking questions from reporters.
TRUMP: A while ago, and it didn't work out. And we did Midnight Hammer. I don't think they want that happening again, but they would like to negotiate. We are negotiating with them right now. Yes.
REPORTER: Mr. President, Mr. President --
REPORTER: Where will the meeting be? It seems like it's changing --
TRUMP: I can't tell you that.
There really is more than one meeting. Yeah, please.
REPORTER: Mr. President, how was your meeting with Gustavo Petro earlier today? And did you come to any agreement on counter-narcotic efforts?
TRUMP: Yeah, we did. We worked on it, and we got along very well. He and I weren't exactly the best of friends, but I wasn't insulted because I never met him. I didn't know him at all.
And we got along very well. And we are. We're working on that and were working on some other things too, including sanctions. And we had a very good meeting.
I thought he was terrific. You know, he's very good. We got along great.
REPORTER: Give us any update on how the talks are going for potential changes to the Department of Homeland Security? Have you agreed to any specifics?
TRUMP: Well, we have a secure border. In fact, we have nine months now where nobody has come into our country illegally. Now, I don't know if I can believe that, because, you know, you go from 25 million people to nobody. But the Democrats do that. You know, they're leaning left. The people that do that report.
And for nine months, I have said nobody has come into our -- it is a strong, great border. We do have people coming into our country, but they're all coming in legally. You take a look at that and look at what was going on a year and a half ago on our border, where criminals were coming in, drug dealers were coming in, people from mental institutions were coming in. The worst, you know, they say the worst -- I don't even know if I like the term, but the worst of the worst was coming into our country. And now we have virtually no -- country is, it's beautiful to see.
Even if you go down, you know, some of you, I think, were down there a couple of weeks ago and you couldn't believe it because you were there two years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten thousand a day.
TRUMP: And 10,000 a day now. You didn't even see anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody.
TRUMP: Nobody comes up with saving lives because nobody comes up. They have to come through the jungles, and they're dying of all sorts of problems, including murder and we have nobody coming in, and we're getting people out that we're getting -- we have 11,888 murderers who came into our country. We're getting them out. We're getting them out fast.
And the only place where there's a little bit of a problem. And I will tell you this, Minnesota, their crime because of us, because we've taken out thousands of criminals. Their crime is down, not because of anybody else. It's because of us. Their crime is down.
But all over the country, wherever we're involved, we're getting criminals out of our country. And the crime rate now is the lowest it's been since 1900. That's 125 years. And that's despite the fact with an open border stupid policy, 25 million people, in my opinion, came into our country. And many of those people should not have been allowed to come into our country.
REPORTER: Mr. President --
REPORTER: On Ukraine, Mr. President. Yesterday, you were talking about how Vladimir Putin had agreed to a pause during the cold weather. Overnight, those attacks have started up again apparently. The worst --
TRUMP: I know. It was Sunday. It was Sunday to Sunday, and it opened up and he hit them hard last night.
No, he agreed -- he kept his word on that. It was -- it's a lot -- you know, one week is -- we'll take anything because it's really, really cold over there. But it was on Sunday and he went from Sunday to Sunday.
RREPORTER: Are you disappointed he didn't go further or go --
TRUMP: I would like to -- I want him to end the war. I spoke to him. I want him to end the war.
REPORTER: Mr. President, Mr. President, what exactly did you mean when you said that you should nationalize elections? And which 15 states are you talking about?
TRUMP: I want to see, elections be honest. And if a state can't run an election, I think the people behind me should do something about it. Because, you know, if you think about it, a state is an agent for the federal government in elections. I don't know why the federal government doesn't do them anyway.
But when you see some of these states about how horribly they run their elections, what a disgrace it is. I think the federal government, when you see crooked elections and we had plenty of them. And by the way, we had them last time, but go to 2020 and look at the facts that are coming out -- rigged, crooked elections.
If we have areas, take a look at Detroit, take a look at Pennsylvania, take a look at Philadelphia. You go take a look at Atlanta. Look at some of the places that horrible corruption on elections and the federal government should not allow that. The federal government should get involved.
These are agents of the federal government to count the votes. If they can't count the votes legally and honestly, then somebody else should take over.
REPORTER: Constitution says it should be states that administer elections, Mr. President.
TRUMP: You know what? They can administer the election, but they have to do it honestly.
REPORTER: Are you -- are you open to negotiating on warrants when it comes to ICE? This is an ask from Senator Schumer -- requiring search warrants for ICE and immigration officials.
TRUMP: I haven't even thought of it. I'm not -- I'm not thinking about search warrants. Yeah, Lindsey Graham is going to answer that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Yeah, no. It makes no sense. If we have to get a search warrant to get 15 million people out, Schumer is telling me he doesn't want them out. It's the most ridiculous idea.
They do have some good ideas, I think, but I've got a better idea. It's your idea. In sanctuary cities, on immigration I know what I'm talking about. I've got the scars to prove it.
They're playing. Y'all are playing like Biden didn't exist. Y'all won't tell the American people about Laken Riley. It's a one-sided debate.
For four years, our border was obliterated. They let him come in by the tens of millions, and they want to go back that way. We're not going.
So, Mr. President, stick to your guns. If you got reforms that make ICE better, more professional, talk to me. But you should embrace what I'm suggesting. As long as 12 states have sanctuary policy, they'll keep coming.
Unfortunately, you won't be president forever. These magnets of illegal immigration have to go. There is no upside to sanctuary city unless you're a complete radical nut job.
The cops hate it. Fraud around sanctuary cities and you're going to get more illegal immigrants. We'll have a debate.
I've been trying to solve this problem, but what the Democrats are doing is they're not getting to the underlying problem. It's not Stephen Miller. It's not Kristi Noem. It's not me, it's not you. It's policies that have been on the books that don't work.
So, if you want a debate on how to solve this problem, show up next week. I'm going to take President Trump's idea that it's time to end the insane policy of sanctuary cities. We're going to take it to the floor, and we're going to vote.
And people in November are going to get to see who they trust to keep the border secure, Schumer or Trump? I'm with Trump.
REPORTER: Mr. President --
TRUMP: And by the way, I hope you're going to press that very hard. And the other thing, we are not -- we are not -- well, we are with you. I think everybody is with you.
It's a sanctuary for criminals. That's who it is. They could make our lives so much easier. All they have to do is hand over their criminals, hand over people that came into our country illegally, that are murderers, that came out of jails, that came out of mental institutions, that are drug dealers.
I don't -- I can't believe in Minnesota that they want to have murderers walking all over the streets. I just don't believe it. Maybe somebody says it's good poli -- I don't think it's good politics. I think it's really bad.
The other thing we can't lose sight of is you probably have in Minnesota, and it's worse in some places like California, $19 billion in fraud. And we're going to find out, you know, we have -- we're very deep into that investigation, but we're not going to forget that.
A lot of people think that a lot of this nonsense that's going on is to try and you know, hide what's going on with respect to the fraud.
[16:50:03]
They have 19 -- at least $19 billion. You know, you're hearing nine. Now, I'm hearing it's 19 and its probably much more. So, it's -- it's -- you know, they talk about incompetence. I think it's not incompetence. I think it's just pure fraud.
These are dishonest people. They're bad people. I think they hate our country. And we're going to get to the bottom of it. But don't let this hide the fact that you have tremendous fraud. And, you know, if we find the fraud in this country, you'll have a balanced budget without even cutting anything. You literally have a balanced budget.
Yeah, please.
REPORTER: On Colombia, are you planning to work with President Petro to fight, guerrilla groups and terrorist organizations in Venezuela?
TRUMP: Well, they want me to do that, and we will. We're getting along very well in Venezuela with the leadership. Very, very well.
You know, we took in 50 million barrels of oil. It's right now heading to Houston, and we're getting along very well with them, but we're going to work with them.
Yes?
REPORTER: A few months ago, you had in your office here Peter Mandelson, the British ambassador. You were shaking hands with him over a trade deal. He's today been forced to resign from the House of Lords, the upper house of the British parliament, over his links to Jeffrey Epstein. I just wondered if you had any reaction to that, since obviously --
TRUMP: I didn't know about it. But I really don't know too much about it. I know who he is, but it's too bad.
But, you know, speaking of Epstein, I will say this -- a reporter named Wolff and Epstein conspired. This just came out yesterday in the millions of pages of documents. How crazy this is, conspired against me in order to fight like hell, to make sure I lose the election. That's the only thing that was mentioned about me.
Now, about Democrats. Some really bad stuff. But about me, that Wolff, whoever Wolff is, he wrote a book, a couple of books. And Epstein conspired against me. Did you know that, Mr. Senator? You didn't know that?
They conspired against me. So I lose the election, or worse.
So that takes care of Epstein as far as Trump is concerned. But you got a lot of Democrats out there that are very much involved with Epstein. But I'll be honest with you, you got to get back to running the country, too.
Millions and millions -- every week. You know, when Epstein was alive, nobody cared about him. When he's dead, they care about him.
But it's really a Democrat problem. It's not a Republican. It's a Democrat problem. The only problem Republicans have is that we have to get back to number one, running our country. And then number two, very importantly, letting the public know what a great job we're doing.
We have the greatest economy in the history of the world. We have $18 trillion being spent. The record was $3 trillion many years ago, not by us, by another country. I won't say the country. Yeah.
(CROSSTALK) REPORTER: Have you been briefed on Savannah Guthrie's mom missing in Arizona?
TRUMP: I think it's terrible.
REPORTER: Would you commit to more federal agents like helping out on the --
TRUMP: Sure. I'm going to call her later on. I think it's a terrible thing. I always got along very good with Savannah.
Very unusual situation. But we're going to find out.
Yeah. What do you want?
REPORTER: On the Epstein files, you talked about Democrats who were in there. Elon Musk was also in there. And so was your commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, and correspondence that he had with him. Did you read those new files that were published by the Department of Justice?
TRUMP: I have a lot of things I'm doing, you know, a lot of things I'm doing -- I don't know. You mentioned two names. I'm sure they're fine. I'm sure they're fine. Otherwise, it would have been major headlines.
REPORTER: A lot of women who were are survivors of Epstein's are unhappy with those redactions that came out. Some of them entire witness interviews are totally blacked out. Do you think that they should be more transparent?
TRUMP: Well, there also a fact that they thought they released too much. You know, I heard that. And you tell me something else.
No. I think it's really time for the country to get on to something else. Really. You know, now that nothing came out about me other than it was a conspiracy against me, literally, by Epstein and other people. But I think it's time now for the country to maybe get on to something else, like health care --
REPORTER: What do you say to people who felt they haven't gotten justice, Mr. President?
TRUMP: -- something that people care about. Yeah. What did you say?
REPORTER: What would you -- what would you say to the survivors who feel --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You are the worst reporter. No wonder CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile in your face.
REPORTER: Well, I'm asking about survivors -- TRUMP: You know why? You know why you're not smiling? Because you know
you're not telling the truth. And you're very dishonest organization. And they should be ashamed of you.
Okay. Go ahead.
REPORTER: They're survivors of sexual abuse.
REPORTER: Of health care, and the bill that was just passed does not include your health care savings account. So this is a question for you and maybe for Mr. Speaker as well.
TRUMP: I'm so proud of the health care savings accounts because it's going to happen and hopefully, instead of insurance and I hope this happens and I hope you guys can do it -- let the insurance companies not do quite as well.
[16:55:09]
You know, they're going up 15,000, 16,000, 1,700 percent. Think of it. The money should be paid directly to the people. You know, trillions of dollars goes out. The money should go to the people. They should buy their own health care. It can be in a health care, you know, account, savings account, any account you want to make.
The money should go to the people. The people should buy their own health care, and they're going to save a lot of money, and they're going to have much better health care. And it's very simple.
The problem is the Democrats are owned by those insurance companies. They're owned lock, stock and barrel. And the Democrats will never vote on it because I -- the Republicans should get that through. And you know how you get it through the filibuster. Get rid of the filibuster and start voting.
Yes?
REPORTER: Mr. President. Today we heard that the Clinton --
HUNT: All right, we have been listening to President Trump taking questions at the White House. We're going to continue to monitor that.
But James Clyburn, Congressman Clyburn has been standing by for us.
Sir, thanks very much for your patience there. The president just then was asked about his comments around nationalizing the election, and the president said that states should be, quote, agents of the federal government in elections. What is your reaction to that statement?
CLYBURN: I would say the president needs to read the constitution, and that's the problem here. He seems to think that the constitution is something for us to talk about and not act upon. And if he were to read the Constitution and act upon the Constitution, he will know that all these elections are given by the Constitution to these to separate states. HUNT: All right. Congressman Clyburn, thank you very much for your
time today, sir. Really look forward to having you back on the show soon. Thanks very much.
CLYBURN: Thank you.
HUNT: All right. Our panel has been standing by.
David Chalian, the president's comments there about elections in particular really stood out. When I started my career in Washington, the idea that anyone with an R next to their name would say that the states shouldn't have total control over their election process and then simply inform the rest of the public as to what the results were, would have been run out of town on the rails.
CHALIAN: Yes, the idea of centralizing things in Washington is not -- has not been the calling card of the Republican Party over the time that we have covered it, no doubt. And it literally -- what he said, like state should be an agent of the federal government elections is, I mean, directly opposite of the design of the system, of how our founders designed it.
So, it is sort of counter constitutional, there's no doubt about that. I would say the other notable thing from that was obviously his strong desire to never talk about Epstein again. I mean, he was pleading with everyone to move on from that story, despite all the new information that has been released.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah, that. I -- I mean, I'm -- I understand why he wants to not talk about it again. But, you know, I mean, this has been something that has dogged him for quite some time, and I don't see it necessarily going away.
HUNT: Yeah. Peter Meijer?
MEIJER: When you say that, like, what exactly in the Epstein thing has dogged him?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, I think how his government has handled it, what has been released and the feeling of the victims that they haven't gotten justice. There is a feeling that the government hasn't really come clean in the way that it should, that there should be prosecutions. I mean, ultimately, what is this all about? If it's not about sort of a feeling of justice?
And I think that's why people are still so interested in this. It's not just the sort of salacious drip, drip. It's a real call that that there needs to be more people held to account. And who are those people going to be?
BEGALA: Yeah. Can I get back to elections? James Madison -- James Madison would like a word here.
HUNT: Yeah?
BEGALA: Article One, Section Four, our Constitution, which that man swore to uphold by God, says the times, places and manner of holding elections for senators and representatives shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof.
Now Congress --
HUNT: That was the point Clyburn --
BEGALA: They can -- they could pass the SAVE Act. They can make -- they can set some rules, but they shall be prescribed by the states. The states have to run the elections, period.
MEIJER: I love this because you love the For the People Act back in 2021, which on the Republican side we talked about that was nationalizing elections. So Trump can negatively --
BEGALA: It was campaign reform.
MEIJER: Okay. Sure.
BEGALA: It was --
MEIJER: No, it was also about absentee voting. It was about restricting --
BEGALA: So do you think that -- do you think that that law which tried to clean up money makes states the agents, the agents of the federal government, the agents? That's insane.
MEIJER: If you -- if you -- if Trump is negatively polarizing the Democratic Party, you know, last week and earlier was about the Second Amendment and Democrats rushing to Alex Pretti's defense to have a gun. Fantastic. Let's support the Second Amendment.
If this is -- if he will negatively polarize you guys into also believing that more things should be decided at the state level, love it.
BEGALA: No, no, we're just swearing to the Constitution. I swore an oath to defend the Constitution.
HUNT: We are up against the one and only the most venerable Jake Tapper is standing by.
So don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts now.
