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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Just In: Savannah Guthrie Posts New Video Pleading For Mom's Return; Lawyer: Ghislaine Maxwell Will Talk In Exchange For Clemency. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 09, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:09]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's good to have you with us on this Monday.

Right now, as we come on the air, we are covering a new video that was just released ahead of the new deadline in a desperate search.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt. My sister and brother and I. And that our mom has felt because we believe that somehow some way she is feeling these prayers and that God is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place.

We believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock, trying to bring her home, trying to find her. She was taken and we don't know where. And we need your help. So I'm coming on just to ask you not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson, if you see anything if you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you that you report to law enforcement, we are at an hour of desperation and we need your help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: An hour of desperation.

Just moments ago, Savannah Guthrie posting that video online this time she was talking directly to us, directly to the public, as we approach a critical moment in the search for her mother, Nancy. A ransom note sent to several news organizations purportedly set two deadlines to meet demands. One was this past Friday. The other was for 5:00 p.m. today. The family spent the weekend publicly and directly appealing to whoever has their mother pleading for her return and saying very clearly, quote, we will pay.

The possible captors are reportedly demanding more than $6 million in bitcoin by this afternoon. That is according to CNN affiliate KGUN, one of the stations that received a note. Officials are separately looking into a second message sent to another local TV station on Friday.

As of today, as the search enters its ninth day, police still say they have no suspects or persons of interest. Law enforcement officials were seen at Nancy's home on Sunday. They were also seen at the home of her daughter, Annie, late Saturday.

Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel will be here.

We're also joined by CNN senior national correspondent Ed Lavandera. He is outside Nancy Guthrie's home in Tucson.

Ed, can you bring us up to speed with the latest on the ground? This shift in tone from Savannah just now? Pretty remarkable.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Obviously, at this moment, we're trying to kind of dissect exactly what we just heard. But I think a couple of things quickly stand out, as you mentioned, that this is a communication that just shows Savannah by herself, not with her siblings, and it is not a message that appears to be directed in any kind of way to an indirect message to the author of these alleged ransom notes, because it's important to point out and I know we've said this a lot over the last few days, but there is still no clear indication, as if it to whether or not these messages were actually authentic or legitimate in any way, just the fact that it was clear that the authorities and the family were taking them very seriously.

But this particular message, a desperate saying to reach a desperate hour in the search for their 84-year-old mother and basically asking for any kind of help from across the public, and it seems to suggest that there is just almost no information of value coming into investigators at this point. We are now entering the second week of this search. You heard there directly from Savannah. They have no idea where she is and what we've heard repeatedly from investigators here is that there is no suspect, no person of interest.

It's not even clear at this moment if they've gotten any piece of video footage that might lead them to a car or a partial license plate, any shred of possible evidence that might explain to them where she might be.

[16:05:02]

The best we have right now is that it was between 1:45 a.m. and 2:30 a.m., more than a week ago, on that early -- in those early Sunday morning hours, in the middle of the night here that they believe Nancy Guthrie was taken from her home against her will. And despite all of that, as you mentioned, we have seen investigators combing through this neighborhood repeatedly over the last few days, checking not only the property around the grounds here they've been on the roof of her home. They have been canvassing and canvasing the area of these rolling desert hills north of Tucson where she lives. They've re- interviewed neighbors asking if they've seen anything suspicious or a suspicious vehicle.

And despite all those efforts not just happening here in this particular neighborhood, but across the city, from what we are told, there is still nothing for investigators to lead them closer to where Nancy Guthrie might be today.

HUNT: All right. Ed Lavandera for us on the ground in Tucson -- Ed, thanks very much for that report.

I want to bring in now CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi, and CNN senior law enforcement analyst, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.

Welcome to all of you.

John Miller, I'd like to start with you. This video, a remarkable change in tone and message. What do you read into it?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the last video, which was very short and somber in tone and precise in wording was directed specifically towards the kidnappers or those claiming to be the kidnappers who have been writing. This is to the public, and it contains messages, which is we believe she is still out there and that she was taken and we don't know where she is. And we need your help.

And this is the key. We need your help. Even if you are far from Tucson -- you know, everybody on the screen I worked in the FBI with at the same time. And, you know, we went through some of these kidnapping cases. And if you look at the Elizabeth Smart case, Jaycee Dugard case, Steven Stayner case and Dugard happened while we were there, these are cases where the victims were taken far away from where they were kidnapped.

What she's saying to us is, even if you're in Las Vegas or you're in Oklahoma or you're somewhere and you see something suspicious, there's been a long time since she was taken could have traveled a long distance. Don't write that off. Report it, and if you know something or you heard something or you have information about this, I think that the emotional appeal were seeing is also meant to move somebody to come forward who might not want to.

HUNT: Frank Figliuzzi -- I mean, to that point and in reference to some of these other types of cases that you worked on alongside John and others, what is she looking for that might crack it open? I mean, she seems to be asking for something that law enforcement can't give.

FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Or has not been able to produce so far. And that's my greatest fear, Kasie, is that we're essentially moving back almost to square one here. Look, I think she's telling the public, you are probably going to solve this. And look, we've seen the crowdsourcing of crime solving throughout various kinds of crimes in the last couple of years. What might that mean for the average citizen? If you've got someone that's been acting suspicious and has largely

disappeared in the sense that they're behind closed doors, they're usually out and about, but now they're not -- they're not showing their face. They've got the door closed. They -- there's been some unusual movements, maybe in the apartment above you. They need every possible lead.

The FBI tip line is open. Pima County sheriff's line is open. And what does that tell us? They've got virtually nothing so far. The other thing that I'm kind of sensing here, Kasie, is that something has developed investigatively to cause the FBI to think maybe all of the negotiations, all of the messages they've been getting are not legitimate. And we're back to square one.

HUNT: Yeah. Andy McCabe, that was exactly the question I was going to put to you. I mean, do you think that this message says that the ransom notes that we've been talking about, the ransom demands, that none of it actually is real? And we are back to square one.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think that this message is not the kind of message that you expect to hear from a family that is currently in active negotiations with a kidnapper to get their loved one back.

And it's interesting when you compare it to the previous message, which was very much a direct appeal to whoever sent those messages to the television stations and TMZ. We will pay. We need her back. We want to be able to celebrate with her. This is very valuable. We understand that -- this was an entirely different approach.

As John and Frank have said, an appeal direct to the public for additional leads.

[16:10:03]

So it leads -- I think there's a strong suggestion here that they have reached a decision with respect to these prior messages and the ransom demand that it is not -- I don't think they've ever engaged in a two way communication, which as we get closer and closer to this deadline makes the whole thing look even more absurd. They've never gotten -- they've likely never gotten proof of life in that exchange, which again, makes it almost impossible to make the decision to pay a ransom when you've not gotten proof of life.

So yeah, I think all those things that were making a lot of us kind of suspicious of these messages all along seem to kind of be that, that that channel seems to be maybe coming to a halt at this point.

HUNT: Yeah. I want to play a little bit of the message that we had from over the weekend just to kind of underscore exactly what you all have been talking about, kind of the change in presentation and tone. Let's watch what Savannah said to at the time she was talking to whoever sent this ransom note over the weekend. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GUTHRIE: We received your message and we understand we beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So that, of course, is over the weekend. And the three of them are sitting together. She's clearly talking directly to who this -- ever this person may be then. Now let's watch again the video that was just posted a few minutes ago on Instagram. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTHRIE: I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt, my sister and brother and I, and that our mom has felt because we believe that somehow some way she is feeling these prayers and that god is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place.

We believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock, trying to bring her home, trying to find her. She was taken and we don't know where. And we need your help.

So, I'm coming on just to ask you not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson if you see anything, if you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you, that you report to law enforcement. We are at an hour of desperation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, John Miller, this underscores the conversation we have been having here, but you can really see the differences laid out there on the screen.

MILLER: Well, you can and -- I mean, I think that as they try to get to their decision about what to do with this ransom situation, whether those notes come from somebody who actually has her or had her to go back to Frank Figliuzzi's point, somewhere out there, there's somebody who has that guy across the street who saw him pull up with a van you know and help an elderly lady out and, you know, lead her through the front door or down to the basement or something, and is thinking, I'm in Kansas City, that can't have any connection to this.

You know, what she's really saying is we need everybody in the game here, because whether we go through with this, this part with these other people or not, we don't want everybody to stop looking.

HUNT: Yeah, well, and Frank Figliuzzi, I mean -- what in terms of these tips that could potentially come in from, you know, in response to this plea, given the experience so far, right, this ransom note that they've gotten that's come in to these TV stations, to TMZ, I mean, how does law enforcement sort through what might get generated from something like this?

FIGLIUZZI: By the time you're into the second week of a case like this, your folks who are fielding those leads now have a sense. I mean, there's morning briefings, there's night shift briefings. They've got a sense of what is going to work as a lead and what's not making sense. And they are triaged. But in something like this, it's all hands-on deck certainly in the Phoenix field office and all of FBI Arizona. But even throughout the country.

So nothings getting put in the trash can but rather they do have certain instructions they're given hey, if you get something like this, you put it in the A pile. The other thing I'd note here is not only do we sense the frustration and even desperation as Savannah said in her message, but that's being experienced in law enforcement right now as well. We're seeing a new era of kidnap and ransom. It has to do with things like bitcoin with anonymized emails, with a demand that you fill a digital wallet.

All of that incredibly difficult to trace. It puts the bad guy in charge and that's a new thing for law enforcement in crisis negotiations.

HUNT: Andrew McCabe, one other question, just about putting something like this out do you think that we should take the way she's presenting herself, the things she's saying at absolutely face value? Would there be any reason if they were in, for example, active negotiations with someone with the ransom to put out a video like this that suggested that they were not?

MCCABE: No. I mean, short answer is no. I -- I think if the if the investigative team and the family were fully invested in an ongoing negotiation with someone who thought had had Nancy Guthrie, they would not be engaging with the public in this way. They'd be trying to tone things down on the public relations side and maintain as much kind of privacy and secrecy around what they're doing.

I think, you know, I've always -- I try to caution people against, like really trying to micro interpret every statement in, you know, embedded in one of these videos. But there are some very clear themes that you can easily pick up on and walk away with confidently because these messages are very carefully crafted with the family.

So, you have like hostage negotiators and crisis communicators working very closely with the family to kind of get out there exactly what they're trying to say here. It was first of all, very clearly saying they believe their mother is still alive. She's dependent upon these hopes and the, you know, people sending prayers and goodwill in her direction. To me, that's a little bit of a response to the last message, which I think a lot of people drew a more negative conclusion from.

And then, of course the second big message here is we need your help. We need your help no matter where you are, no matter what you see, call it in to the police and give us a push here and trying to figure out where our mother is, because we don't know where she is right now. HUNT: All right. Please do. All three of you stand by for us and we're

going to continue covering this throughout the hour here in THE ARENA. Don't go anywhere.

We have much more breaking news. Our Jake Tapper is on scene in Arizona. We're going to check in with him live when we come back, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:28]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTHRIE: Hi there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just share a few thoughts as we enter into another week of this nightmare I just want to say, first of all thank you so much for all of the prayers and the love that we have felt, my sister and brother and I, and that our mom has felt because we believe that somehow, some way she is feeling these prayers and that God is lifting her even in this moment and in this darkest place.

We believe our mom is still out there. We need your help. Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock, trying to bring her home, trying to find her. She was taken and we don't know where. And we need your help.

So I'm coming on just to ask you not just for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson, if you see anything, if you hear anything, if there's anything at all that seems strange to you, that you report to law enforcement, we are at an hour of desperation and we need your help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. We are back now with our breaking news coverage in the search for Nancy Guthrie, her daughter, "Today Show" anchor Savannah Guthrie, posted that video to her Instagram account just a few minutes ago.

This is the third video that was posted by a member of the Guthrie family since Friday and, of course, it comes just ahead of a 5:00 p.m. deadline in from the purported ransom notes. You heard Savannah there plead directly with the public. She said directly to all of us, quote, we need your help. And she described the moment the family is in right now as a, quote, "hour of desperation".

CNN anchor, chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper is outside the sheriff's department in Tucson Arizona.

Jake, of course we heard from a Tucson resident last week saying that you could feel what's going on. You could feel this story in the air there regardless of whether you knew Nancy or not. And now we have this pretty significant new video from Savannah that represents a real shift in tone from what we had been hearing from a family that is just in their most desperate hour. JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's

exactly right. And I think it's worth pointing out, this is the fourth video total that the Guthrie children, Savannah, Camron and Annie have put out since their mother disappeared in the early hours of roughly 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. I believe on Sunday, two Sundays ago, February 1st.

And what's significant about this and what is the most different about this one is this is an appeal to the public. The other three, Savannah or her brother or all three of them were speaking to the kidnappers. This is a plea. This is a -- she expresses appreciation for the prayers, and she says that she and her brother and sister, and they believe their mother are feeling the prayers obviously a nod to their devout Christian faith.

But beyond that, they're asking for help. Not just in Tucson, she says even if you're far from Tucson. And I think that really underscores the lack of leads that exist, or at least credible leads that exist nine days into this. And we should note, they say, Savannah says we believe our mom is still out there. We should know that this request for crowdsourcing, this request for the public's help is not as much a wish casting as one might think.

HUNT: Yeah.

TAPPER: I mean, if you look back at some of the horrific crimes that we've covered in the last few years, they found the shooter of the UnitedHealthcare executive, Luigi Mangione, they found him because people knew what he looked like. And somebody in Altoona McDonalds in Pennsylvania spotted him. They found the killer of Charlie Kirk because his picture was put out there. And the dad thought that he recognized his own son.

So, it is not with, you know, outside the bounds of reality or that somebody out there could have, could see something unusual and provide a tip. We should note the tip line is 1-800-CALL-FBI. But as you also noted, Kasie, we're in a position here where this deadline was given in this first ransom note given to KGUN and other. That's the local CNN affiliate here in Tucson and other media affiliates suggesting something bad would happen if they didn't get $6 million in bitcoin by 5:00 p.m. today. We don't know if that's 5:00 p.m. Mountain Time here in Tucson, 5:00 p.m. East Coast Time.

But either way, what we heard from Savannah just minutes ago is basically an expression of concern and desperation, as she says, and a plea to the public for the first time, talking directly to the public. Help us with any clue you might have.

HUNT: Jake, there was some not insignificant law enforcement activity over the weekend in Tucson. You know, walk us through what it seems like they have been doing because, you know, as you point out there have been these major cases. I mean, if you look at what happened with Elizabeth Smart as well, I talked to her father and he, of course mentioned the way their case was broken open after a long stretch of time.

And it was something like not dissimilar from what Savannah is asking for here. I mean, in many ways, this video suggests that they've hit a wall with what they've been able to do. But it's clear law enforcement is still running things down very actively.

HUNT: I mean, I think that what we saw over the weekend if you include the end of last week checking out and asking for video at a Tucson Circle K about some car that they were looking at. Going to Nancy Guthrie's home and looking into the septic tank. Going to Annie Guthrie's home, that's Savannah's sister, and taking some pictures and bringing things out.

All of which suggests that they are casting as wide a net as possible for any possibility as to where Nancy Guthrie might be in any possible suspicion they have about any theory. I mean, I don't know what they were looking for in that septic tank. I mean, I can guess, but I have no idea. But that is obviously pursuing some theory of the case.

And I think all of it underlines that they really law enforcement officials right now, based on the information we have right this second, don't really have any serious leads, which is obviously heartbreaking for the family and for anybody who knows and loves Savannah and her family.

HUNT: Well, and, Jake, as we -- as we close here, I mean I think, you know, anyone that knows Savannah you know, whether in a personal context. I know you know her. I -- of course, she was a colleague of mine, but she's also written a book about you know about her faith and she talked directly about the prayers that they've been receiving in this video.

And she also asked for more than that. I mean, talk a little bit about, you know what her faith means to her as a person and how that has really played throughout this really desperate situation that the Guthrie family finds themselves in.

TAPPER: Her faith is. Paramount in her life. She is -- she has a personal relationship with God. She talks about God all the time. I -- the last time I was in Tucson was for her wedding. And that was a lovely service. And God was mentioned obviously throughout this throughout the ceremony. To know Savannah is to know how strong her faith is and her relationship with Jesus Christ.

And she -- that faith, I hope is sustaining her during this difficult time. People may not know, you know, people assume that if you're on TV, you've had this easy life. Her life has not been that easy. She lost her father when she was in high school. And, you know, it wasn't a direct line from that to the "Today Show". She's worked really hard, but I think her faith and specifically Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want, has been very important to her. Her relationship to God is very important, important to her and I hope it is sustaining her.

She says in her video to us -- to the public, that she feels the prayers, her brother Camron feels the prayers, her sister Annie feels the prayers. And they believe that their mother, wherever she is in this dark place, feels the prayers as well. She expressed appreciation for the prayers. But what's interesting is that her request was not for prayers. Her request was for tips. Her request was for any information and here we are in day nine. And it seems mysterious and counterfactual that in this world where there seem to be cameras everywhere and digital footprints everywhere that so little would be known about this woman, this 84-year-old woman who has trouble getting around Nancy Guthrie.

But I'm sure I speak for you and everybody at CNN when I say if anybody is watching right now, and they thought they you think you see Nancy Guthrie or you think you see something weird, whether you're in Tucson or Arizona or even on the West Coast or Mountain Time -- Mountain zone at all, call 1-800-CALL-FBI.

HUNT: Yeah.

TAPPER: And that's the request that Savannah made.

HUNT: All right. Jake Tapper, thank you very much. Of course, going to host THE LEAD live from Tucson at the top of the hour. And for everyone watching at home, those numbers were up on the screen, 1-800- CALL-FBI. And of course, the number as well for the local sheriff's department.

We're going to have much more on this story, next.

Also this hour, the other day's news, Ghislaine Maxwell taking the fifth today when she was questioned by Congress. But she says there's one way she'll talk and making a bold promise if she gets her way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Her attorney said -- Maxwell didn't say -- her attorney said that she would answer questions if she were granted clemency by the president.

REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): By President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:17]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back to our breaking news coverage of Nancy Guthrie, the mother of Savannah Guthrie, who has been missing now for nine days.

Our law enforcement analysts are back with us in THE ARENA, John Miller and Frank Figliuzzi.

My panel is also here. CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro; host of "The Chuck Toddcast", Chuck Todd; former Obama White House senior policy adviser, CNN political commentator Ashley Allison; and former speaker pro tempore, Patrick McHenry.

Welcome to all of you. I do want to start, John Miller and Frank Figliuzzi, with both of you.

John, as we have been kind of reflecting on and covering what we are seeing here from the Guthrie family, this new video from Savannah, a mindful of the time. I mean, those ransom notes gave 5:00 p.m. as a deadline. It's now 4:38 here on the East Coast.

We don't seem to know if that deadline was East Coast time or Mountain Time. But it does seem like the approaching deadline may be part of why we're seeing this video now. What do you make of it?

MILLER: I make of it that deadlines set by kidnappers who are looking for money are for the sole purpose of trying to increase pressure on the family to keep things moving. What a kidnapper doesn't want to do is stretch it out any longer than they have to be holding that victim, or operating in that in that way. On the other hand, if your sole purpose is to trade this person for cash, the idea that a deadline may come or go, you're not going to throw your arms up as the kidnapper and say, well, that's it, the deal is off. We're not taking the money. You know, you're five minutes late.

It is very common in these negotiations to talk right through deadlines because of logistics, communications, all of the things that they've been struggling with in this case.

[16:40:04]

So, I don't want to say I'm not concerned. We should all be concerned but I'm not overly concerned that when the clock strikes 5:00, anything is going to be markedly different.

HUNT: Frank, do you agree with that?

FIGLIUZZI: Yeah, I do agree with John. In fact, that's why I'm so concerned now that savannah has come out with this video, felt it necessary to come out with this in the face of the looming deadline. It does further my theory that maybe something developed investigatively that means the FBI thinks whoever they've been dealing with so far is not legitimate.

And, Kasie, if we pull on that thread a little bit more, we now have to ask ourselves, is law enforcement actually dealing with a real kidnap, ransom or has something else happened to Nancy? Has there been a crime of violence? Someone close to the family? Someone who knows the house or knows Nancy.

And we're not dealing with what's -- what the FBI calls a K&R at all, a kidnap and ransom.

HUNT: John Miller, what are your thoughts on that? Especially considering the activity that we saw over the weekend, the search of the septic tank, the activity at Annie Guthrie's house, et cetera.?

MILLER: Well, it shows that the investigators are not being myopic in any way. They're pursuing the idea that it could have been someone close. It could have been someone who knew the house. It could have been somebody who's the subject of one of these tips.

They're not fully invested with everything they have in just one angle, which is a good thing. I mean you have to be able to -- to be open-minded and to be able to do many things at once.

On the other hand, as Frank points out, we know there was a crime of violence. Somebody came into that house and took an 84-year-old woman away and we know that that was not a gentle extraction. We know there was blood on the front steps outside the front door where the camera was removed. And we know she's a vulnerable person to start with, without being in a physical struggle with a kidnapper.

So, there's a lot of reason to worry about that, but it is entirely possible that someone who is trying to throw the trail off from an abduction for some other reason could come up with this kidnapping scenario to keep everybody be chasing -- to keep everybody chasing that angle while they do something else. So, you really do have to have an open mind and consider all the possibilities.

HUNT: Yeah. Chuck Todd, we often pretend we don't have very much of a past when we sit here at this table, but you have quite a history with Savannah Guthrie as co-host, with her and a colleague of many, many years. She was a colleague of mine also. It is heartbreaking and horrible to see her and her family be in this situation as we've gone over. As someone who knows her well you know, she pleaded directly with you, with me, with everyone in America to try to help her with this.

I mean, what are your reflections as you sit here today?

CHUCK TODD, HOST OF "THE CHUCK TODDCAST": Well, I keep waiting for this dystopian surreal event to be like, no, no, no, no, no, we're all going to wake up from this nightmare. I still hard to fathom that this is actually happening. I'll just be -- I'll just be honest. It's the -- it's so -- it's heartbreaking and surreal, if that can be at the same time.

Here's what I know about Savannah is that she's got a type of legal mind and critical thinker that is as good as anybody I've ever dealt with. She sees things. She sees around corners. She understands what's missing in a moment.

I have no doubt that everything she's done -- I mean, this is a trained lawyer. She's -- did a lot of things before, as Jake noted, before she came on TV and people knew who she was. Okay? She was -- there was a fully formed human being there before she became famous.

And I have no doubt she's helping to lead this investigation at this point. And, you know, in some ways, you know, she's going to be making these folks retrace their steps. Are you sure about this? Are you sure about this? Are you sure about this?

So, I have -- in that sense, I have my confidence in her to solve this puzzle is as high as anybody I know.

HUNT: Yeah. When I was thinking, you know, when Jake was talking about the fact that she did, you know, she had struggles in her life. She was not handed everything that she has, you know, clearly earned in her professional career. And I was thinking about a moment she's talked about when, you know, her father had passed away and she was worried about leaving her mother alone to take her first, you know, big step into her career. And it was her mother who said to her, no, Savannah, you go, you go.

[16:45:00]

TODD: You know, why we were thrown together to host the TV show, we don't know. But the strangest thing is we both lost our fathers at the age of 16, and we both had mothers who told us, no, don't stay. Go. You've got to go. Leave.

So, we've -- there's -- there's -- this personal for a lot of people and it's just, please?

HUNT: Of course it does. Let's get her home.

TODD: Let's get Nancy.

HUNT: Let's bring her home.

All right. John Miller, Frank Figliuzzi, thank you both very much. We're grateful for your expertise.

Ahead here in THE ARENA, it's the first day when congressional lawmakers are getting access to unredacted Epstein files. We'll tell you what they're saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMER: Unfortunately, she had an opportunity today to answer a question that every American has, questions that would be very important in this investigation and she chose to invoke her Fifth Amendment rights. Her attorney said -- Maxwell didn't say -- her attorney said that she would answer questions if she were granted clemency by the president.

BIGGS: By President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Members of the House Oversight Committee emerging frustrated this morning from their long-awaited deposition of Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, who declined to answer questions. Instead, her lawyer told the committee that she would talk if the president would grant her clemency.

Her attorney, later sharing the following statement, quote, "Only she can provide the complete account. Some may not like what they hear, but the truth matters. For example, both President Trump and President Clinton are innocent of any wrongdoing."

My panel is back.

Well, how's that for a --

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Teaser.

HUNT: -- for a tease?

I mean, I -- Lulu, she clearly is pleading for clemency here, right? This -- the files -- I mean, this seems to be sort of metastasizing, right? Globally, not just here in the United States. And yet, it's almost hard to hold any one of these people accountable.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, it might bring down the British government actually. Here in America -- here in America, not so much accountability. U.K., maybe some accountability yeah. I mean I think what she's doing is literally trying to position herself to get out of jail. She's got an enormous amount of self-interest.

She already leveraged her first interaction with the Justice Department. Let's just not forget from being in a quite miserable prison to now being in a more cushy prison. She is --

HUNT: Puppies and things.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yeah. Puppies and things. It would be extraordinary if the winner of this entire saga would be Ghislaine Maxwell, that she would have managed to keep on getting an upgrade and an upgrade, and she would get a jail -- get out of jail free card because of people's insatiable appetite to find out what's going on.

You know, at the end of the day I am not sure that President Trump would not give her clemency under the guise of giving people what they want, which is, you know her testimony.

HUNT: Chuck Todd, the president clearly does not like this. I mean, he -- whenever he's asked about it, you can see from the reaction he doesn't want it to be in the news. Jamie Raskin, we're tight on time, so I'm not going to play it, but Jamie Raskin came out and said Donald Trump's name is all over the files. Why is it that he is so sensitive about this?

TODD: I think it just goes back to that was a -- I mean, they were good friends, right? Look, there's a lot of theories among people that know Donald Trump who say that, you know, that Epstein and Maxwell were there at the start of his relationship with Melania, and somehow he's sensitive about that and I don't want to get into those rabbit holes but the point is that that there's potentially sensitivity there. Whichever it is, ultimately, it's clear she's shopping for a pardon, and I think he's more likely than not to, to grant it.

But I'll tell you, I do think this political branding of the Epstein class that you see some Democrats doing is potentially very powerful, because what I do think we're having a confluence here. There is a real anger at the wealthy in this country. Theres a real anger. And in a weird way, like Epstein becomes an easy way to just throw everybody -- you know, Epstein is the -- is the -- is the symbol of, boy, these rich people, they get to get away with anything that they want.

And it's like -- it's all of that --

HUNT: Tech, Hollywood, both parties.

TODD: Yeah, it's all of it. It looks like, you know, and the elites. And so, it's this broad.

HUNT: I want to get them in, Chuck, I'm running out of time.

Congressman, do you -- I mean, why is this Justice Department -- I mean, it seems like they're covering stuff up.

PATRICK MCHENRY (R), FORMER FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, there are three things. So, I think Chuck's right. It's about the elites, though. It's not necessarily just money, it's the elites. And by the way, this president ran against the elites from being an elite, right?

So there's some complicated stuff here to begin with but I look at my colleagues, my former colleagues in the House who think they're serving President Trump's interests by continuing this investigation on Epstein, but they find themselves in a worse and worse and worse and more precarious political position.

They're not working on the substance American people actually care about and that is a missing ingredient for this political discussion here in Washington.

HUNT: Ashley, your last word to you.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, there are hundreds of victims, and there's one person currently in jail. That math does not math. And the people who expose it, to Chuck's point, it doesn't actually matter. Democrat or Republican people can pretty much in a consensus, say the things that happened on that island with Jeffrey Epstein are abhorrent, and that folks should be held to account.

[16:55:03]

HUNT: Right, because they look at it and they say, if I did something like this, somebody would come for me.

TODD: Bingo.

HUNT: Right? And no one came for these men. All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel, I appreciate you all standing by with us for the hour. Thank you very much for that.

Thanks to you at home for joining us as well. We, of course, spent most of the hour covering the story that my colleague Jake Tapper is standing by to lead his show off with. He is in Arizona, in Tucson, for THE LEAD, where of course, they are still desperately searching for Nancy Guthrie -- Jake.