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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Trump Fires DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, Appoints GOP Sen. Markwayne Mullin; Trump: I Must Be Involved In Appointment Of Iran's Next Leader; Just In: Trump Gives Update On Iran War. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired March 05, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:02]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yeah, it's tough to secure those vessels in obviously an area of extreme activity right now.

THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now. Thanks so much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.

As we come on the air, Kristi Noem is out as secretary of homeland security, the first firing of a cabinet official during Donald Trump's second term. The president announcing that Noem will leave DHS at the end of this month. Two sources tell CNN that Trump called Noem directly to inform her this afternoon.

His nominee to replace her, Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin. In his announcement, Trump said this, quote, "A MAGA warrior and former undefeated professional MMA fighter, Markwayne truly gets along well with people and knows the wisdom and courage required to advance our America first agenda," end quote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I am super excited about this opportunity. It came at a -- not a complete surprise, but it came at a little bit of surprise for us. And so, the president, as you guys know, are great friends and we get along great I look forward to working with him and his cabinet, of course. We've still got to go through this little thing called confirmation, and we're going to get started on it right away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.

We're also joined by CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes, CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox.

So, Kristen, you've got some new reporting on exactly when Noem learned of her firing because she actually was speaking in public this afternoon.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: She was and she was sounding as though she was still the secretary. So, there were a lot of questions as to whether or not she actually knew that she had been fired by President Trump. And I was told that she was informed as she was arriving at that event in Nashville by President Trump himself, calling her on the phone before he posted that he had fired her.

The reason, of course, being notable, is that President Trump, his first term was known for firing people on Twitter. So, the fact that he actually reached out was something that we had a lot of questions as to whether or not he had done.

Now, one of the things to note here is that president -- Secretary Noem or former Secretary Noem had come under an enormous amount of backlash and scrutiny from both Democrats and Republicans following what happened -- the incidents, the shootings of Americans in Minneapolis. She was pulled out of Minneapolis and away from that operation, told to be put back on the border. Tom Homan was brought in instead.

But I am told that there was a catalyst for this firing, and that was actually the Senate Judiciary hearing in particular, the exchange she had with the Republican Senator John Kennedy in which he asked her if President Trump had signed off on a $200 million ad campaign that largely just featured Kristi Noem, essentially asking people who were here in the country illegally to self-deport. She said he had.

Now that enraged President Trump who said he had not actually signed off on that ad campaign. He said it in public to a reporter who asked him about it, but he also started calling various allies on the Hill. At that moment, he was angry, saying that he hadn't said it and then started floating people's names.

And Mullin was one of the names that he had floated as asking various lawmakers if they thought that he would do a good job as the secretary of Department of Homeland Security.

So, the other point to note here is we've already heard from Karoline Leavitt on this. This is what she said in a tweet. She said the White House will work with the Senate to confirm the extraordinarily qualified senator, Markwayne Mullin -- Markwayne Mullin, as the next secretary of the department of homeland security as quickly as possible.

From the sources I've talked to, they don't think this is going to be a heavy lift in terms of confirmation. But the president has had some really low poll numbers when it comes to the immigration tactics that Americans have seen. And from what I'm hearing from administration officials, that blame now has gone to Kristi Noem.

HUNT: Remarkable turn of events, although in some ways not surprising. Part of I think the big question -- and this is for you, Lauren Fox -- is it can be tough to fire a cabinet secretary when getting people confirmed in the United States Senate takes time and honestly is pretty difficult at the moment. You caught up with Senator Mullin. There's nothing the Senate likes more usually than confirming one of their own.

What did he tell you? What do you expect?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, Kasie, there are so many dynamics at play, one of which is that the Department of Homeland Security is currently not being funded by Congress, right? We are in the midst of a partial government shutdown for that agency specifically. And part of the dynamic here is that Democrats want to see large reforms when it comes to how the administration does immigration enforcement.

And we heard from a number of Democrats as this news was breaking, including the minority leader, Chuck Schumer, who made clear that he wants answers on what might be different, arguing that, you know, getting rid of Kristi Noem is a step, but that certainly does not make him feel easy about the administration's tactics going forward on immigration.

[16:05:04]

This is what Markwayne Mullin said when I pressed him on if he is going to be able to win over some of those Democratic skeptics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I'm going to -- I'm going to have a conversation with -- if Mr. Schumer wants to sit down and talk to me, I'm going to sit and talk to him. I want to try to earn their support. And I'm going to be very open and honest with them.

And at the end of the day, all I can do is do my job, and -- and so, I don't -- I'm not going to get in the, you know, tit for tat but if they have real concerns, I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to see if it's practical but nothings going to prevent me from doing my job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: Now he is a really popular senator on both the Republican side and the Democratic side. Peter Welch, a Democrat in the Senate, actually was seen stopping his Jeep as he was driving away from the Capitol and when I asked Welch what he had said to Mullin, he was joking essentially, he told Mullin that is he going to do all the arrests himself? Because Mullin has sort of had this reputation in the Senate of being a tough guy here on Capitol Hill.

And, you know, another dynamic that's important to keep in mind is I think this also came as a shock to Markwayne Mullin. Around 12:30, reporters were hearing about the potential that he could be nominated for this position. He told our colleagues that he hadn't talked to the president in the last several days. Then around 12:50, so just about 20 minutes later, he quickly and abruptly left the Senate GOP lunch. He went into the whip's office, and we saw one of his aides quickly go in, get his coat out of the Senate GOP lunch, and he was gone from the Capitol. So that just shows you how quickly this all transpired this afternoon.

HUNT: Indeed. All right. Lauren Fox, Kristen Holmes, thank you both very much for getting us started today.

My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny; CNN political commentator Jonah Goldberg; CNN global affairs commentator, former deputy Pentagon press secretary, Sabrina Singh; and CNN political commentator, Republican strategist Brad Todd.

We are also joined by CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

Thank you all very much for being here.

John, let me start with you briefly. Just because it was quite something to watch Kristi Noem on stage at that event where she was appearing, because it really wasn't clear whether she knew what had transpired or perhaps somebody would go whisper in her ear than it did.

Now, of course, our Kristen Holmes reporting what she has about this. But I understand you were expecting to be at this event.

Can you help us understand a little bit more of the context here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, sure. This is an event I attend every year. It is put together with major cities law enforcement officials and the heads of the labor unions that represent the police officers in those cities. The consideration this year was our focus was probably going to be on the war and national security, and the story was probably not going to be with Kristi Noem and Nashville. So I got that one wrong.

But if you look at the context of it this was her speaking to the police officers who work both in sanctuary cities and non sanctuary cities about maintaining their relationship with ICE and CBP, and DHS entities as the immigration enforcement continues to sweep the country.

But things took a turn. As she arrived on the DHS plane coming in from the airport. There was a phone call from the president, having spoken to some of the local law enforcement officials who were there who kind of watched this unfold in the background. She remained in the car upon arrival, completing that call with the president, presumably and then got out. Didn't really say anything to the officials there except went into the reception room. Met kind of all of the major cities people who were there.

And then while she was backstage, it started to come across everybody's phone on social media that she had been fired by the president. She went on -- put on a brave face made her remarks, and then stayed for a long period of questions and answers before departing.

So, the drama at that event went mostly on in the background. HUNT: Interesting.

So, Jonah Goldberg, of course, you know, for a lot of certainly critics of Kristi Noem, many on the left as well, the way that immigration enforcement has been run is absolutely the top of the list of complaints about Kristi Noem.

But for this president, right. We know that he's a visual person. He watches a lot of television and what Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana pressed Kristi Noem on at this hearing that were now reporting was a critical piece of this whole thing was the ad campaign that she spent millions of dollars running.

[16:10:00]

I want to play a little bit of one spot that aired according to "ProPublica" on Fox News. You know, what -- just watch it and imagine why you might pick this venue, why spending millions of dollars on something like this might rub a sitting president of your own party the wrong way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, OUTGOING DHS SECRETARY: Why do I love these wide open spaces? They remind me of why our forefathers came here, not just for its beauty, but for the freedom only America provides. I'm Kristi Noem.

From the cowboys who tamed the West, if you come here the right way, your American dream can be as big as these endless skies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Mount Rushmore.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, look, there's been reporting that she and her special adviser, Corey Lewandowski, thought that this was all preparatory to a presidential run in 2028. And getting your face out there on a lot.

I do weep for many struggling cable channels that are going to lose a major source of revenue with the end of this. So, it does not shock me that Trump, when he found out the scope of this, was annoyed and -- but he knew about the ads because he watches a lot of TV and the TV that he watches, these ads are on.

So -- but the hearings did sort of highlight the way they went about providing these contracts for these ads was pretty shady and looked bad. And look, Markwayne Mullin does not have -- I was going over his bio. It does not have a major amount of any more experience in this sector than Kristi Noem does, but that doesn't mean he won't do a better job just by virtue of not making it all about himself the way that Noem did.

HUNT: Yeah. Well, let's watch the exchange that Noem had with John Kennedy from Louisiana, because it also kind of gets it -- gets a little more the texture of this watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): The president approved ahead of time you spending $220 million running TV ads across the country in which you are featured prominently?

NOEM: Yes, sir. We went through the legal processes. Did it correctly. Worked with OMB.

KENNEDY: Did the president know you're going to do this?

NOEM: Yes.

KENNEDY: He did?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Brad?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: When you're a member of the Trump administration and you lose John Kennedy, the fire has spread well beyond the kitchen and I think that Kristi Noem has known that she was on thin, cracking ice for several weeks.

It is not about the advertising. It is about Minneapolis. It is about the fact that her administration has taken the president's signature success, the fact that he's closed the southwest border and turned it into an attack punch line for Democrats, Republicans, to win this fall, have to have a 20-point advantage on immigration. There's no reason we shouldn't have a 20-point advantage.

But the way she was running DHS was compromising that.

HUNT: Yeah. And I want to play for you also, since you brought up Minneapolis, right, and what happened there? She was so quick out of the gate to label Alex Pretti who was killed by federal a federal agent a domestic -- a domestic terrorist, right? Called it domestic terrorism.

Let's -- let's watch that moment from Noem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOEM: You perpetuate violence against a government because of ideological reasons and for reasons to resist and perpetuate violence. That is the definition of domestic terrorism.

This individual who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers, committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Of course, that was way ahead of the video that would then come out of what happened. SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: I think that will be

one of the biggest missteps of this administration. And I think that's why one of the reasons why she's being held accountable, not to mention just that, you know, pretty horrific exchange with Senator Kennedy. But her coming out so quickly and labeling that as a domestic terror event, I mean, an American lost his life. Now, two Americans have lost their lives and there was no remorse that we saw from her during that hearing. So, I think that is a big misstep.

I will say, just on the timing of all of this, DHS still remains in a shutdown right now. So, it is -- I was a bit surprised and taken aback that they -- that Donald Trump fired her during this time where its, you know, there -- there's no funding going. So, it's kind of interesting.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, if you think about why the Department of Homeland Security was created, it was in the wake of 9/11. I mean, I remember very well covering the Bush administration at that time. Tom Ridge was the first secretary.

It was a major job. It is a huge agency. So even though the focus for her has been on immigration, we are in a time of war now. So I think that that is also not to helping this, but for the president.

He knows planes very well. He was agitated by her use and trying to purchase a plane. He knows advertising very well, television very well.

The reality is, things were just getting -- she was becoming a bad story.

[16:15:03]

But Corey Lewandowski -- Susie Wiles, the White House chief of staff, had lost her patience with him. And that was so much of this as well. So even though a Senator Markwayne Mullin is not going to have any policy differences, he's going to be viewed as a breath of fresh air. And for the president speaking in this midterm election year, he's firing someone. So, politically speaking its likely to be helpful for him because she's not going to be there. She'll be doing whatever -- Shield of America is. What the shield of the western hemisphere. Is that what it's called?

HUNT: Yeah.

ZELENY: A soft landing.

HUNT: Yes, exactly. Right? Is that -- is that kind of when you get kicked upstairs?

Anyway, John Miller, you wanted to chime in and it was mentioned here at the table, of course, that the Department of Homeland Security currently is without funding on the Hill.

MILLER: Well, that's right. And it's interesting, under Kristi Noem stewardship of this department, one of the largest in the government that expanded greatly and whose budget expanded greatly that the gutting of its core functions. And this is what when you talk to local and state law enforcement partners, getting rid of CISA or gutting it to the point that it is now a shadow of its former self, that's the cyber protection arm at a time when were extraordinarily worried and vulnerable to cyberattack.

The gutting of FEMA, which was going to be reduced even further before the snowstorms came along, and they had to hold off on that. The information sharing with state and local law enforcement on intelligence, which many of them have complained to me has become basically a history lesson that's irrelevant. Getting rid of the counterterrorism coordinator, kind of something you would probably want to have there near or the counterterrorism advisory board, something that would also be handy at the time when you were worried about a rising threat from Iran.

All of that happened under her watch as those resources, including HSI and CBP and others were diverted, Secret Service, from their normal enforcement and investigations on homeland security issues to enforcing civil immigration -- none of that is the reason Kristi Noem is losing her job.

The reason, as the panel quickly determined, is you don't embarrass this president, not with a $220 million ad campaign that features more of you than him.

HUNT: John Miller, thank you very much, as always, for being here. Really appreciate it.

The rest of our panel is going to stand by for the hour.

Coming up in THE ARENA, we are expecting an update soon from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth on the war in Iraq. We will bring that to you live when it happens.

But first, new reaction from Capitol Hill on the firing of Kristi Noem. We're going to talk with one senator about the president's decision and whether Markwayne Mullin can win confirmation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): I am so happy that one of the worst administrative leaders I've ever seen is gone. But the agency itself is still reckless and out of control and we should not be funding it until these issues are addressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:23]

HUNT: All right. Welcome back. We are continuing to follow the breaking news of President Trump's firing of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, who just earlier this week faced tough questions from both Republicans and Democratic senators on Capitol Hill, including around this $220 million DHS ad campaign.

"ProPublica" reported last year that the recipient of the lucrative subcontract was the husband of a former DHS spokesperson. My next guest questioned Noem just days ago about that controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Did Mr. Lewandowski receive any compensation, directly or indirectly, from Safe America or from the Strategy Group?

NOEM: Senator, I don't have any information to that. I can't speak to that.

WELCH: Will you ask Mr. Lewandowski, did he get any compensation directly or indirectly from these contracts?

NOEM: Are you asking me to go ask him?

WELCH: Yes, I am. Ask your special government adviser.

NOEM: I can do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And joining me now is the man you saw there, Democratic senator from Vermont, Peter Welch.

And sir, watching -- watching that exchange, I'm tempted to ask you, you put special almost in quotation marks there -- explain a little bit more why you were so focused on that here as we are learning, of course, that she no longer has a job.

WELCH: Well, two things is $230 million. The advertising campaign was all self-promotion about her on a horse in Mount Rushmore. The contract went to her closest aide's husband. She denied it was a no bid contract until I confronted her with the website documentation that it was no bid.

And of course, there are rampant rumors about her having a special relationship with Mr. Lewandowski. And there's going to be follow-up investigation to see whether there's kickbacks involved in all of these contracts that went out that required her approval

HUNT: Quite a -- quite a bit there. I should note she's not completely out of a job. She has a new job, but she will no longer be the DHS secretary.

Let me ask you just to follow up on what you said there. If Democrats retake the House or, I suppose, the body that you serve in the Senate, although obviously, pretty long shot still at this point, would you encourage your colleagues to investigate what you were asking about with the power that they would have if they were to wield subpoena power?

WELCH: Well, absolutely would. This is a $230 million, no bid contract that went to -- $140 million of it went to a company that didn't exist seven days before they got $143 million.

[16:25:05]

And in fact, this is a bipartisan concern. Senator Kennedy from Louisiana was the one who first started asking questions about this special deal.

So, yes, we should investigate it, but it should be bipartisan because my Republican colleagues hate the corruption as much as I do.

HUNT: Of course, the president has nominated Markwayne Mullin, the senator from Oklahoma, Republican, to take the top post at the Department of Homeland security are you going to consider supporting his nomination?

WELCH: Yeah, he'll be confirmed. The question is whether there'll be bipartisan support for him.

Markwayne. Mullin is competent and he's honest. So those are two good things that Kristi Noem did not have.

This is going to give us an opportunity to have a real discussion about what's going on with Department of Homeland Security. Number one, what we saw with that rampage in Minneapolis cannot ever happen again. You had Kristi Noem, who essentially was calling two people who got killed, domestic terrorists.

Are we going to continue to have raids on churches, on farms, on work sites? Are we going to be threatened with election interference? So, we're going to have an opportunity to speak with Senator Mullin and go to the heart of some of these questions that I think are troubling many Republicans as well as Democrats.

HUNT: And do you think that its likely it will be bipartisan? I mean, I suppose Senator Fetterman from Pennsylvania, is a Democrat, has already indicated that. But beyond that, do you get the sense that there might be willingness inside your caucus to go beyond that?

WELCH: Well, Markwayne is -- he's respected. He's honest and he's competent. The questions we have is about the FEMA agenda and we're going to have an opportunity to talk to him.

We oppose having untrained people. We oppose having no knock warrants and no warrants. We oppose having masked agents. We oppose invasion into work sites and churches and schools. So we're going to have a discussion with him about that.

So, the issue, I think, with Markwayne is going to be much more about the policy and what he is going to be offering us as we look ahead, rather than his personal qualities, because people respect Markwayne.

HUNT: Interesting.

Do you think that what the president has done here and you know, the person that he has nominated, do you think this will contribute to or could it help break the logjam on department of homeland security funding which is, of course shut down because of controversy on the Hill?

WELCH: Well, see, I hope it does. You know, we've got a situation where we have an opportunity. The president did close the border. All right. That -- that is important. We agree. We're deporting criminals. We agree on that.

But this wholesale roundup of people who are working on our farms, working on our construction sites, people who have lived in the community for years and have no criminal record. Many of my Republican colleagues are saying, hey wait a minute, that's not what we signed up for.

So, my hope here is that there's going to be real discussion, not just about what ICE did in Minneapolis but about the mass deportation where you're having so much negative things happen in our communities. And to people who have been contributing hard working individuals in this country.

HUNT: Senator, of course, this all comes as the president is waging war in the Middle East and of course, the Department of Homeland Security plays a critical role in protecting the homeland, especially in areas of cybersecurity.

And my colleague John Miller has done extensive reporting, has extensive sources inside law enforcement across the country, and warned that the unit inside DHS, CISA, is usually shorthanded, as has been decimated under Kristi Noem's leadership.

Do you think that damage can be undone? Should it be?

WELCH: Well, I think Markwayne Mullin actually will want to undo that damage, but you raise a very important point. There was a lack of competence in a personal agenda that Kristi Noem had. She fired people because she didn't like them. And she was really reckless in getting rid of a cyber defense that is more critical than ever.

So, here you had from the inside out a person debilitating the essential function that that organization has to protect our homeland. By the way, she was also terrible on FEMA. You know, we've had enormous damage in from wild storms in Republican and Democratic states, Noem's response was, let's abolish FEMA. That is truly bizarre.

I mean, if she can end major weather events okay, but we have to reform it. And there's a bipartisan group of us that are trying to do that.

[16:30:02]

So I actually do think with her being gone, we can put a pause on -- and on this immigration policy and talk about what has been accomplished, namely a secure border and deporting criminals, but have a different policy when it comes to people without a criminal record who are working, who've been here for years and are contributing members of the community.

HUNT: All right. Senator Peter Wwelch, very grateful to have you on the show today, sir. I hope you'll come back soon.

WELCH: Thank you.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, new numbers on the war in Iran, including just how much its costing U.S. taxpayers every day as we wait to hear from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth at U.S. Central Command.

Donald Trump's national security adviser in his first term, John Bolton, will be here live in THE ARENA.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:10]

HUNT: All right, any moment now, we're expecting a key update on the war with Iran. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth will host a news conference at the headquarters of U.S. Central Command. We will bring you that live, as that happens.

But as of course, we're reporting this here, President Donald Trump making a clear effort to try to reshape the narrative. He gave numerous interviews to reporters today. One big takeaway, he now says he will personally have a role in picking Iran's next leader.

President Trump told "Axios" this, quote, "They are wasting their time. Khamenei's son is a lightweight. I have to be involved in the appointment. Like with Delcy," he meant Delcy Rodriguez, "in Venezuela," end quote.

Those comments come as Iran's foreign minister claims the U.S. and Israeli war effort is a failure and insists that Iran will soon have a new supreme leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBAS ARAGHCHI, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: What they have achieved? What was their goal? They came here for a regime change, perhaps. They came here for a rapid victory so they can, you know, control everything.

But they have failed. The system is working. The commanders have been replaced, and the supreme leader is going to be replaced soon, according to the procedures -- procedures set by the constitution. So, everything is in order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward joins us now from Iraq.

Clarissa, President Trump also told "Reuters" today that he would, quote, "be all for," end quote, the Kurds launching an uprising in Iran.

What have you been hearing? You're in the region. What have you been seeing on the ground in Iraq?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has become one of the most hotly contested and highly anticipated issues. Whether or not Iranian Kurdish forces here in Iraqi Kurdistan will push ahead with some kind of a ground offensive into Western Iran, with the support of U.S. and Israel. After some months of support from the CIA and the reason it has become so controversial, in part, Kasie, is because here in Iraqi Kurdistan, the leadership is very concerned about getting on the wrong side of Iran.

They have said that they have been warned by the Iranians that if a Kurdish fighter crosses that border, there will be severe repercussions. And we've actually been seeing those repercussions in real time with Iran launching a series of drone and missile strikes on the camps and residences of at least three of those Iranian Kurdish militias that would potentially take part in this ground offensive. Clearly sending a very strong message, trying to deter them from going ahead with this and the sources that we've been speaking to who previously have been saying in the coming days they would go in, are now slightly more circumspect saying simply that they are ready at any moment to go in.

I think that it is fair to say they are continuing to pressure the United States for more guarantees both in terms of political guarantees, but also in terms of some kind of air cover. Obviously, this could be an incredibly risky incursion and one that honestly threatens to upend the very delicate and tenuous balance of powers here in Iraq and, frankly across the region -- Kasie.

HUNT: Remarkable.

Okay. Clarissa Ward from Iraq for us -- Clarissa, thank you very much.

And joining me now in THE ARENA, President Trump's former national security advisor, Ambassador John Bolton.

Ambassador, thanks very much for being here.

I want to start with what the president told "Axios" today. He told Barak Ravid that he needs to have a role in choosing the next leader and that the son of the now late supreme leader is a lightweight. What's your reaction?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: I think the polite thing to say is it's delusional. The idea that the ayatollahs that form the ruling circles of this regime are going to care what Donald Trump thinks is a mistake, and it's equally a mistake to think that after he picks the new supreme leader, that hell just make deals with him like he did with Delcy.

The failure to remove Delcy Rodriguez and the other Chavistas still ruling in Venezuela means that the regime is still in place and Iraq is not Venezuela. It means there that the whomever is chosen as supreme leader will be the entire deep state, including 200,000 Revolutionary Guard soldiers still in place.

So, I don't know where he gets his information about how things work in Tehran, but it's a strange comment, let's put it that way.

HUNT: You, of course, are well-known as someone who has been a traditional hawk on foreign policy. You have spent a lot of time, energy focus on warning about the dangers of Iran.

Based on what you have seen so far of this war, do you think that the United States and the world are going to be safer and more secure with this action, having been -- having been taken or not?

BOLTON: Well, we have to see how it turns out. I think the objective of regime change which the president stated before his advisers tried to walk it back, is the correct objective. And I think to date, at least the military side of this is going very well.

What I'm concerned about is the political side. I don't think the president led the American people, as presidents need to do, in support of regime change. And I think he's now in political difficulty in the general population for that reason. He clearly did not work the congressional side of things, notwithstanding the two victories he's going to have on war powers resolutions. I think Congress is still shaky.

He did no consultations with our allies, which is a mistake. And what I'm most worried about, frankly, is the extent of his consultations with the Iranian opposition. They are going to have to carry the major part of the burden inside the country.

We need to know from them who are possible defectors, how they're going to fragment the regime at the top and really affect the regime change, how to coordinate with the military efforts. And I'm very worried, apart from this chatter about the Kurds in northwest Iran, that we've really done that effectively.

HUNT: So, the Iranian foreign minister spoke with NBC today and was asked about a potential U.S. ground invasion. I want to play what he said, and we'll talk about it on this side. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM LLAMAS, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Are you afraid of a U.S. invasion in your country?

ARAGHCHI: No, we are waiting for them.

LLAMAS: You are waiting for the U.S. military to invade, the ground troops?

ARAGHCHI: Yes, because we are confident that we can confront them. And that would be a big disaster for them

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Do you think ground troops are going to be required to achieve the goal of regime change, if that is the goal?

BOLTON: No, I don't think so. The goal of the -- of the military campaign is not itself to affect regime change. And a lot of people have been using words like, that's not the military mission. I mean, it's the political mission.

By destroying the instruments of Iranian state power that threaten us and that repress the Iranian people, you begin to pull the regime apart at the top and get defectors primarily from the regular army, but maybe some from the Revolutionary Guard. So, as the military activity degrades what Iran is capable of doing, it creates political instability. It destabilizes the regime and the more we take out of the nuclear program, the ballistic missile program, the Revolutionary Guard headquarters and bases, the Quds Force, the navy, it's a long list.

We've got plenty of time to do it. If we have air superiority and if we have effectively ruled out their retaliatory strike capability, taken out that capability by the bombing campaign. So, I think things on the military side look good. And the more unstable the regime becomes, the greater the possibility of regime change.

HUNT: Understood, quite a long list indeed.

So, I'm being told that we actually just heard a little bit from President Trump. He's been hosting an event at the White House here and spoke about some of these issues. I want to play it for you. It's relatively short and ask you about it on the other side. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Back to our operation in the country of Iran the United States military, together with the wonderful Israeli partners, continues to totally demolish the enemy far ahead of schedule, and at levels that people have never seen before actually. We're destroying more of Iran's missile and drone capability every single hour, knocking them out like nobody thought was possible.

As soon as they set off a missile within four minutes, the launcher gets hit they don't know what's happening. But we have the greatest military anywhere in the world. Their Navy is gone, 24 ships in three days.

That's a lot of ships. They're anti-aircraft. Weapons are gone. So, they have no air force they have no air defense. All of their airplanes are gone. Their communications are gone.

Missiles are gone. Launches are gone about 60 percent and 64 percent, respectively. Other than that, they're doing quite well. I said, what's left?

[16:45:00]

But they're tough and they want to fight. And they're calling -- they're saying, how do we make a deal? I said, you're being a little bit late and we want to fight now more than they do. We've had 47 years depending on the way you count it. But 47 years of horror with this group. And, you know, when you see somebody walking down the street without

their legs, without the arms, whose faces so badly affected and hurt, it mostly came from 95 percent, Soleimani and Iran and we -- other presidents lived with it. I didn't live with it. And so, our people are doing a great job again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Mr. Ambassador, that update coming in from the president. Would you say you learned anything about our war effort? What stood out to you?

BOLTON: Well, I think a lot of what he said is clearly true. I was surprised at the figure. If I understood it correctly, on missiles and missile launchers destroyed, it was like 64, 66 percent, that's a relatively lower number than I would have expected, given what has been the pretty upbeat statement that were not worried about Iran's missile capabilities. If somebody had said 80 or 90 percent, then I would be happier.

I think that's still low enough that there's a threat there that we need to be worried about. But what it does say as well is that I don't see that that portends any shortage in our anti-missile capabilities. I think our real problem here is drones, because we don't have the counter-drone technology that the Ukrainians have developed of necessity on the battlefield. I think it's going to be an interesting conversation when president Trump next speaks with President Zelenskyy about getting some help from the Ukrainians on their drone technology.

HUNT: Yeah. This is -- this is why one works on ones friendships and alliances.

Ambassador John Bolton, thanks very much for your time today, sir. Always grateful for you.

BOLTON: Thank you.

HUNT: Ahead -- of course. Ahead here in THE ARENA, our panel is here to weigh in on the president's new comments on Iran as we wait to hear from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:51:44]

HUNT: All right. A live look at the House of Representatives, where lawmakers have just voted down a measure that would have reined in the president's war in Iran. The vote was 212 in favor and 219 against. Two Republicans crossed party lines in this vote. The Senate failed to advance its version of the measure at this time yesterday.

My panel is back here.

Jonah Goldberg, I want to go back to, to what we heard from the president earlier today. I mean, very interesting, right? He has been calling reporters. He knows that a number of news outlets today to try to put his message out there on Iran, but telling "Axios" he wants a personal role in regime change.

John Bolton called it delusional. What say you?

GOLDBERG: I think it's very strange. And also, look, I'm -- I've been in favor of regime change in Iran for a very long time. That doesn't mean do it this way. Do it now and all that. Those are legitimate debates.

The argument that Iran has been at war with us for 47 years is a legitimate talking point that I think has a lot of merit to it. But one of the reasons -- I'm not a right to protect person, I don't think we should just do it as a humanitarian thing. It's because they're a threat to us.

But the Delcy Rodriguez model is not regime change. And to say you're going to get some other mullah, some other ayatollah in there and keep the regime in place is a massive betrayal to the Iranian people. And it's -- they're going to be there would be massive political repercussions to that just to get our SOB in there. Who's going to cooperate with us? That's not what the ayatollahs are going to do. That's not what all of these diaspora groups want.

And it's not regime change. And like its bizarre how Trump is sort of inherited this snipe hunt that's been going on for a half century of finding the moderate ayatollahs that can work with America. It's never happened before. And why would it happen now?

HUNT: I mean, the phrase moderate ayatollah may be the absolute oxymoron.

GOLDBERG: It's a bit of a jumbo shrimp kind of thing. Yeah.

HUNT: Jeff Zeleny, I mean, the other, of course point here. And, you know, I think you can see the president trying now to sell people on what is happening, the reality was he didn't do a lot of groundwork to try to convince Americans that this was worth it.

And he is seeing -- you know, it's relatively muted. Obviously, Republicans are, as we have well documented you know, reluctant to cross the president but it also, you know, you can see and I have picked up from my conversations with Republicans on Capitol Hill, there are some nerves about how this is going to go. And some expectation that the administration give them a little bit more about what their plans are.

ZELENY: I mean, without a doubt, like anyone on Capitol Hill, anyone watching this with even a modest sense of history, I mean even never mind going back centuries and centuries, but just a quarter century knows that the idea of regime change is a very fraught one.

So, the --

HUNT: Sounds nice, it's really hard.

ZELENY: Without a doubt.

HUNT: It's really hard.

ZELENY: We are less than a week into this campaign. It is only Thursday. We are less than a week into it. The idea that the sacrifice is sort of that we've seen already with six service members have lost their lives very tragically.

[16:55:04]

If this would extend longer, it would obviously be way worse than that. And we've seen the administration already very thin skinned about this. But the president has not prepared the nation for this at all so as we go forward here, I think he will sort of have to do that. But it is just not a full sense of history to think that he can be in charge of choosing the next leader.

GOLDBERG: And one of the reasons you sell it in advance is you get buy in from politicians to back you when things get ugly.

HUNT: Yeah. For sure.

All right. With that, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right. Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate having you. Thanks to you at home for watching as well.

Please do not go anywhere because the eminent Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".