Return to Transcripts main page
CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump Casts New Doubts On Prospects Of Ending Iran War, Saying "I Don't Care" About Making A Deal; Trump: "Pausing" Strikes On Iran Power Plants Until April 6; Just In: Nasdaq Closes In Correction Territory Amid Iran War; Airports Brace For Weekend Travel Surge As Funding Talks Stall. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 26, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: -- Congress heads for a recess tomorrow, a two-week recess with all these folks not getting paid and enormous headaches.
[16:00:07]
Brian Todd, thank you so much --
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You got it.
SANCHEZ: -- for that reporting.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, I was talking to this Coast Guard spouse who said that her --
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's good to have you with us on this Thursday.
Right now, President Donald Trump is changing course on Iran yet again, now literally saying he does not care if the U.S. can negotiate a deal to end the war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are begging to work out a deal. I don't know if we'll be able to do that. I don't know if we're willing to do that. They want to make a deal.
The reason they want to make a deal is they have been just beat to shit. I mean, I read a story today that I'm desperate to make a deal. I'm not -- I don't -- if I was desperate, he'd be the first to know. Pete, let's get the hell out of there.
I'm the opposite of desperate. I don't care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I don't care.
These latest comments come just hours after President Trump told Iran's negotiators to, quote, get serious soon before it is too late because once that happens, there is no turning back and it won't be pretty, end quote.
The president today also using this cabinet meeting to once again criticize the NATO alliance for not joining in America's war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's a small potatoes. That's why I'm so disappointed in NATO, because this was a test for NATO. This was a test. You can help us. You don't have to.
But if you don't have it, you know, if you don't do that, we're going to remember. Just remember. Remember this in a number of months from now, remember my statements. They have an expression a great expression, "Never forget, never forget."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: On Monday, President Trump announced a pause on U.S. attacks on Iranian energy facilities, specifically so that negotiations could play out. That pause expires tomorrow night, so the clock is ticking or maybe it isn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: It's the Friday deadline for Iran. Is that pushed back now or it's not --
TRUMP: I don't know yet. I don't know.
Mr. Witkoff and J.D. and Jared will tell me whether or not they think it's going along. And if it's not going along, maybe not. And we have a lot of time. You know what? It's a day. In Trump time, a day, you know what it is? That's an eternity.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Trump time. Yes, we're all on it and have been for a while.
Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
We're also joined by CNN's senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes, and our chief national security analyst, Jim Sciutto. Jim is in Tel Aviv for us.
But Kristen, let me start with you.
Trump time, we're all living in it. What else did we learn from this cabinet meeting today? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, a day
actually is an eternity in Trump time. I think it's probably one of the more accurate statements he's ever made.
When it came to that cabinet meeting, it was clear, Kasie, that they were trying to answer a lot of the criticism on the Iraq war. Yes, we heard President Trump doing what he always does, which is going off on a tangent about sharpies or the cost of pens or the columns that the Kennedy Center.
But this seemed to be meant to do, was to use his cabinet officials to kind of combat some of the criticism that we've been hearing from everyday Americans and from journalists who have been asking questions and really not getting answers from this administration. You heard J.D. Vance, who has been somebody who has been against any kind of U.S. intervention overseas, saying that this war was necessary to stop Iran from getting nuclear capabilities. You heard Steve Witkoff giving some detail about those negotiations, talking about the 15-point plan, which of course we've reported on but never had any confirmation on the record from the administration.
And then you heard all the talk about the negotiations. Of course, President Trump really seemed to want to stress the fact that it was them who reached out, that he was not begging for a deal. But we do know behind the scenes that there is hope that there's going to be a deal. And you even heard that from the secretary of state as he was leaving for the G7.
Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: There are intermediary countries that are passing messages, and progress has been made. Some concrete progress has been made, as you've seen and has been documented already. There's a growing amount of energy that's been flowing through the straits, not as much as should be flowing, but some of it has picked up.
So again, there's been some progress in regards to the exchange of messages, but that's an ongoing and fluid process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: An ongoing and fluid process. That is the exact terminology we've heard behind the scenes as well. That is why you're not hearing any confirmation about any kind of in-person meetings. Every time that they start to set something, things change in terms of location, security, timing, but there is still hope that there will be some kind of agreement that could be reached before this escalates even further.
[16:05:01]
I will note President Trump finally revealed what that quote, unquote, gift from Iran was. He said it was the passage of eight oil tankers through the Strait of Hormuz, and he viewed that as basically a sign of good faith or a showing of good faith by the Iranians, that they were taking these negotiations seriously.
HUNT: Well, one mystery solved anyway.
Jim Sciutto, it was this time yesterday that Iran's foreign minister said that there are no talks and that a exchange of messages doesn't mean there are negotiations. What do we know about where Iran is at this moment and what the incentive structure is that has them feeling like they need to deny that these talks are even happening?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, listen, I mean, I think we should be clear there aren't any direct talks, right? I mean, to our knowledge, this is all indirect conversation. And what no one has said, whether Iranian or American, even Marco Rubio is what, if any, movement there is on the quite clear disagreements in the 15-point plan presented by the U.S. and then those five responses that Iran gave.
They're miles apart on the core issues here. Iran says it wants to maintain sovereignty over the Strait of Hormuz, control President Trump, and really the world, I imagine, wants it opened again. President Trump is demanding that Iran close all its nuclear facilities. Iran has made no public comment, no indication that it would do so. So, a lot of the discussion of are there talks, is there progress? It hasn't been backed up by any evidence of movement on those core issues. And just from a purely rhetorical perspective, just a short time ago, an advisor to the new supreme leader, of course, the son of the last one who was killed in the first hours of this war, he had quite threatening words. He said that any nation that participates in attacks on Iran will have its -- have consequences that, quote, "boomerang towards them".
Now, listen, that's a threat we've heard before from Iran regarding U.S. forces in the region or Israel, where I can tell you, over the course of the last 24 hours, we've had more air raid signals than at any point of the war so far, because Iran is firing missiles here.
But beyond that, it might be seen as a signal to gulf nations that have been considering taking part, or even perhaps European nations, that President Trump is pressuring to take part in reopening the strait. So, Iran, at least in its public comments, is showing, you know, that it's not ready to give up its firepower here. And they've been able to back that by being able to fire missiles at Israel, right? I mean, Israel intercepts most, most of them. But despite all these many thousands of strikes by U.S. And Israeli forces, Iran maintains some capability to strike out at nations around the region.
HUNT: Indeed.
All right, Kristen Holmes, thank you very much.
Jim Sciutto, thanks for that. Stay safe, of course.
My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN political analyst, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Zolan Kanno-Youngs; CNN political commentator, editor of "The Dispatch", Jonah Goldberg; two veterans of the 2024 presidential election. Adrienne Elrod. She served as senior advisor to the Harris campaign. And Bryan Lanza, who advised the Trump campaign.
We also have with us CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger of "The New York Times".
Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much for being here.
And David, let me start with you. Just to kind of set the stage here, because I was really -- as I was watching that cabinet meeting kind of unfold in front of us this morning, that quote from the president about saying he doesn't care, he clearly was trying to show the world that he was holding a certain posture towards this.
Why do you think he was doing that? And what do you think we should be paying attention to?
DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, a few things, Kasie. First, the president seemed to care this morning when he was putting out on Truth Social, a demand that the Iranians better get in line and respond and begin to negotiate seriously. Then a few hours later, he's telling us, well, they could -- they could not.
He is betting on two things. One, that as he gathers more firepower in the region, we're supposed to see two marine expeditionary units arrive in the next week or two. And of course, the 82nd Airborne Division, bringing in 2,000 people. He'll have the option of doing an attack either on Kharg Island, which is where Iran ships out most of its oil, or to do one on the nuclear facility, that's at Isfahan. So, he's holding that as his leverage.
The Iranians, on the other hand, are holding on to their control in the Strait of Hormuz as their one piece of leverage. And as Jim just pointed out, yes, they can shoot missiles off. That's going to be a declining capability. But they have really demonstrated that they can control traffic. And the fact that they let those 8 or 10 ships through tells you they can also seal them off again.
[16:10:06]
And I think the president's recognizing that that means that time is really working more for the Iranians than it is for the U.S. right now.
HUNT: Jonah Goldberg, a pretty stark warning there. Time is on the Iranians side. And, you know, we went into this with American policymakers, with the president, with secretary of state, with secretary of defense all saying, you know, this isn't another Iraq. We can get out of this basically whenever we want. But as this time goes on, it seems to raise more doubts about whether that's the case.
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I'm not sure I would put it exactly the way David does. I think it's asymmetric, right?
Militarily, time is completely on the United States' side. The war has actually gone remarkably well militarily. The problem is that politically and economically and to a certain extent, one could say geo-strategically, time is more on Iran's side. And so, a lot of the stuff that Trump does, not all of it, but a lot of it is buying time, right? He's trying to pre-position troops in there, get the markets to stop freaking out, keep Republicans in congress from stop freaking out.
And they're betting well see how it works. That eventually that the military solution will emerge before the political crisis, that not having a military solution is creating. And it's a race.
HUNT: Zolan?
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Particularly -- I mean, it's a race against, you know, when you measure the economic pressure from this, right? I think that's also what David was getting at, that right now. You have the president weighing I mean, the frustration, particularly also among his base over the economy.
And, you know, just today, we had a report that says inflation is now projected to rise, I believe, to 4.2 percent, right? You have fears over the ripple effects from the war on energy prices in the United States as well. So that's kind of what the president is weighing here too.
The difficult thing is at times the president has, you know, issued conflicting messages seemingly to buy time on other topics and certainly is relevant here. But for this one, this isn't -- this isn't like a tariff threat. You're all you already have Americans really feeling the impact of this, right? This isn't just rhetorical.
So that's also where you talk about sort of the fight against time here, the fact that people are already feeling the impact of this war.
HUNT: Well, and, Bryan Lanza, in terms of what kind of time the president has, we know a lot of that is going to be you know, he reads the polls, right? We're barreling toward the midterm elections. I mean, this year is you know, moving, moving faster than I certainly imagined it would have.
But this is the latest Fox News polling on support for the current military action. And this is people saying, when do they think this action will end? Thirty-five percent of Americans seem to think it will take over a year. But look at this, okay, all voters say 42 percent support this action, 90 percent of MAGA Republicans do, but just 77 percent of Republicans writ large do. And only 28 percent of independent voters, which, you know, still matter in this country when it comes to elections.
BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Listen, it's not a strong position. And I think everybody has said from the beginning, the administration hasn't done a good job of laying out its case. You know, when we deal with Gulf War One, you know, James Baker laid out his case, he built a broad coalition. We did it with Gulf War Two, Colin Powell. They went there to the United Nations. They made their case and built a broad coalition.
I think the challenge that the Trump administration has now, whether it was Rubio's decision since he's national security advisor and secretary of state, to not build that same coalition and act in that way. And now, they're just trying to scramble to get that coalition.
You know, time is a huge factor with them. And the reason time matters is because time matters directly with an economic impact. You know, the time that you get gas, every time you get gas, it's going up. Now that -- that's time that's going off.
That's informing the voters positions that, hey, you know what? This second bet we took on Trump that we wanted Trump 1.0 all over again, we're not getting it because of this war. And that's having a huge impact among the coalition from every sector. And that's a problem.
HUNT: Adrienne?
ADRIENNE ELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, BIDEN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Look, I appreciate what Brian is saying about rubio not building the coalition, but Donald Trump, he is the president of the United States, and we are in war with Iran because of Donald Trump. He can try to blame his advisors. He can try to say it's on Witkoff and Jared and Rubio to get a deal. But this is effectively on Donald Trump.
And I think we talked about this on our previous show, Kasie, that he had, what, 108 minutes of the State of the Union. He spent about three minutes talking about the situation in Iran. If he wanted to prime the American people for this, he would have spent more time priming them. Instead, the reason why these polls are so crazy, and by the way, they're probably only going to get worse. Rarely do you actually see a situation when we're at war where all of a sudden, things start to get better, unless there's a major break in the war, he effectively could have gone out to people and tried to make this case, but he didn't do it.
[16:15:01]
And so now, we're in the situation and gas prices are super high and they're only going to go up.
GOLDBERG: The same applies to NATO, right? The first week of the war, he said, we don't want any help in a war. We've already won. And now for him to actually try to persuade these people, he has to admit the war is not going the way he planned, because otherwise, why would he need them?
HUNT: Right. Well, and to that point, David Sanger, we have a little bit of breaking news here because the president is currently posting on Truth Social. So, I'm going to read what we just got from him. I'd be interested in your take on it.
He says this quote, "As per Iranian government request, please let this statement serve to represent that. I am pausing the period of energy plant destruction by 10 days to Monday, April 6th, 2026, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Easter Monday. Talks are ongoing and despite erroneous statements to the contrary by the fake news media and others, they are going very well. Thank you for your attention to this matter. President Donald J. Trump." What do you make of this?
SANGER: Well, sounds like he's trying to buy himself some more time now. Initially he bought five days. Now he's adding a little more than a week to that for April 6th. And, you know, I think he recognizes that the minute that he begins those kind of destructive attacks on the energy facilities, first, it may be a Geneva convention violation, but second, there's no going back from that, right? It's going to be open up to the broadening of the war. To similar facilities in the Gulf.
So, I think it's good news. He needs some space to try to make diplomacy work here. And, you know, he started off painting himself in a box last weekend. And now I think he recognizes he needs time to send J.D. Vance or whoever's going to go and do this negotiation.
HUNT: Well, and that's it seems to underscore your point, Jonah, that things don't seem to be going as well as, as he wants everyone to believe anyway.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. I mean, you could go back and look at all of his statements and the number of red lines and declarations of what the goals are. I mean, I still remember the -- we're demanding unconditional surrender stuff, right?
HUNT: That was Trump eternity time ago?
GOLDBERG: Yes. That's right. Yeah. The part of the problem is, is when you don't prepare the public and congress in and your allies in advance about what your goals are. And then after you go to war, you keep coming up with new goals, new deadlines, new deadlines, right?
I mean, this idea that these negotiations or these talks caused him to move his, his red line for 48 hours. Well, however true that statement is, the Iranians know exactly how true it is. And if it's not completely true, it just looks like Trump blinked in the wake of a threat to the energy supply.
HUNT: Yeah. Fair enough.
All right. David Sanger, thank you, sir. Always appreciate you. Thanks for being here.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, member of the Homeland Security Committee, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell will join us live. But first, a significant piece of breaking news just coming in from Wall Street. Major index officially closing in. Correction territory today as the price of oil sees its biggest single day spike in two weeks
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Frankly, I thought the oil prices would go up more, and I thought the stock market would go down more. Hasn't been nearly as severe as I thought. I think they have confidence, and maybe the American president and maybe the people sitting around this table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:51]
HUNT: We're back with breaking news. President Trump saying just a few minutes ago that he's again postponing strikes on Iranian energy plants. The president says this is at the request of the Iranian government, and because of the ongoing talks.There is now a new deadline for Iran to open the Strait of Hormuz set for April 6th.
Meanwhile, stocks have just closed on Wall Street, and the war is really jolting the markets. The Nasdaq officially closing in correction territory, down more than 10 percent from its record high in October. The Dow also down 470 points as investors see no signs that the war with Iran is ending anytime soon.
This all coming as President Trump tells Americans who are feeling the pinch at the pump that gas prices aren't as, quote, severe as he thought they would be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Every president. Frankly, I thought the oil prices would go up more, and I thought the stock market would go down more. Hasn't been nearly as severe as I thought. I think they have confidence in maybe the American president.
The amazing thing is we don't need the Hormuz Strait. We don't need it. We don't need it at all. We don't. We have so much oil. Our country is not affected by this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Okay. Well, there's a lot to unpack right there.
But first of all, does someone want to take this question whether or not we need the Strait of Hormuz? Because I don't know. If you study world history, it seems like we've always needed the Strait of Hormuz, like the western world.
GOLDBERG: Well, also, just for the record, I mean, first of all, like we haven't built a refinery in the United States since the 1970s. Oil is a global commodity. So, if the price goes up, price goes up anywhere. It goes up everywhere.
And so, if you -- like, it's true. It's good that we have independent domestic oil production. But if what he was saying was true, why are gas prices going up in the United States? Because it's a global energy market.
HUNT: Right. Well, and, Bryan Lanza, we were talking in the break too. I mean, the stock market numbers are easy for a lot of folks to understand. But the economic impacts of this are impacting industries across the board in ways that a lot of people, I think, probably don't understand, but you do. [16:25:00]
LANZA: Yeah. Listen, a lot of sectors are being impacted. You know, you -- just one of those strange things in production of semiconductors. Helium is a significant component of semiconductor production. You know, Qatar currently has a third of the helium market. Well, they're not manufacturing right now. So, there's going to be a shortage of things.
There's just a ripple effect. The entire supply chain. I think probably last I checked, close to eight significant sectors that are being impacted by this. And they all want answers there. Like when is the timeline that we can make long term plans? Because when we have to take this pause, it's not just flipping the switch back on and production starts. It's a seven to nine-month venture of when the switch goes back on that, we can see production come online and actually have a positive impact on supply chain.
GOLDBERG: Fertilizer, petrochemicals, like your phone is made from oil. All plastics are made from petrochemicals. A lot of pharmaceuticals, it has ripple effects all over the place.
KANNO-YOUNGS: I do think it's worth reminding folks, too, that the more damage to Iran's energy infrastructure and how effectively they're able to open the strait as well. This will also determine how much pain Americans are feeling even after the end of the war, right? We've been interviewing financial analysts who have been saying it's not like the, you know, if the negotiations go well and you reach an agreement that suddenly, you don't feel this economic pain.
Americans right now are projected to continue to feel the toll of this for six to eight weeks. If it continues, that could be longer. If there's more damage to the infrastructure, that could be longer as well. So that doesn't align with the comments there of we don't need the straight. Not only is there reliance for the now, but also for the future too.
HUNT: Yeah. And also, I mean, if we don't need the straight, why is he setting deadlines for it to be opened before he's going to actually take action around it?
KANNO-YOUNGS: We go back to the conflicting messages as well.
HUNT: Adrienne Elrod, the president was asked in this cabinet meeting if he would consider suspending the gas tax. Let's watch that moment and we'll talk about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Would you ever consider suspending the federal gas tax in order to kind of temporarily alleviate --
TRUMP: The gas tax, you know, people have talked about it. It's something we have in our pocket if we think it's necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: If we think it's necessary. Now, the Biden administration obviously struggled with high gas prices as well. And, you know, there's a limited set of policy tools that any president has to try to bring gas prices down. I mean, the Biden administration considered a lot of them. And you were at the Commerce Department. You understand a lot of this. But at the end of the day, you can only do so much.
ELROD: Yeah, you can only do so much. And look, I think about the ordinary voter who was watching Trump saying, I didn't think gas prices. I thought they were going to go up a lot more than this. Say that to the person in Buchanan, West Virginia, who's spending over $5 to fill up their per gallon, to fill up their cars, and seeing their costs go up several hundred dollars easily a month, especially in rural areas, Kasie, whereas, you know, some people are driving easily 30 to 40 miles -- 40 miles a day just to get to work.
We may not be feeling it here in Washington, D.C., but Trump's voters, many of these people in rural America are feeling this. So, this is another slap in the face to him and frankly, to them. And frankly, like, even if he's not considering or the gas tax is on the table, at least say something that shows a little bit more empathy to people who are really feeling this.
And to also, I think everyone's point on this panel, even if the Strait of Hormuz reopens in full tomorrow, which doesn't seem like it's going to happen, people are not going to start feeling the effects of gas prices being lowered for a long time. And this is going to continue more than likely into election day and beyond.
HUNT: And, Bryan, I mean, it's worth noting that this statement that the president made about how he's extending this by ten days, right? Like we could be enduring this Hormuz Strait closure for 10 more days was it came out right after the markets closed today. Coincidence?
LANZA: No, I mean, it all plays into effect. I wouldn't be surprised if the White House's meeting with key, you know, wall street influencers and messaging them and their messaging the market. I mean, they've thought this all the way through from the beginning of the administration is how critical it is to have an impact on the markets and provide information access so that they can message the market going forward.
I mean, it's a different messaging that you see in mainstream media, but we've considered that and were messaging them early.
HUNT: Jonah, if we do, if the president does go forward with hitting, David Sanger alluded to this kind of in our earlier segment, if we go forward with hitting energy infrastructure in Iran and the war kind of takes that turn, what are kind of the -- I mean, there are Geneva, potentially, Geneva Convention implications, but there's also really significant economic implications because in some ways it would take whatever guardrails still exist off of our opponents.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. I mean, Iran has said that it will do likewise to neighboring countries and also just one data point, simply the storage capacity for a lot of these countries is already full, which means they have to start turning off oil wells. You don't just turn them back on the geologic change. It can take months to get those things back online.
Look, look, I don't know the, the Geneva Convention stuff. I don't know that anything actually happens because of that.
[16:30:00]
I listen to a senator, a Democratic senator in one of the Sunday shows talking about how well the courts can step in. Congress can do something, you know? But I think that --
HUNT: Can they though? Can they?
GOLDBERG: Well, that's great -- in theory, they can. I read the rule book, but --
HUNT: It's written down in the Constitution that they can, but they seem to have given a lot of that back.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. So, if they, if, if you actually get into an exchange where everybody's blowing up each other's oil refineries, you're talking about a decade of chaos and confusion --
LANZA: Shortages.
GOLDBERG: Yeah.
LANZA: You're talking about -- you're talking about real energy shortages right now, the LNG sector has a shortage because of what's going on in Qatar. And that facility being offline, that's -- that's a year and a half to fix.
GOLDBERG: Also, a lot of those gulf. Everyone talks about getting stuff out of the Straits of Hormuz. All those gulf states get their food by ships that go into it. And if they can't go in, you're going to start seeing food shortages. It could get ugly really fast.
HUNT: Really fast.
All right, coming up next here in THE ARENA, new DHS Secretary Markwayne Mullin on Capitol Hill today as senators try, try, try again to reach a deal on DHS funding and end the TSA chaos at the nation's airports. We're going to talk with one lawmaker to see where things stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): My god, I'm sick of this. I'm sick of seeing the American people go through this. So, while we're -- while we're dithering on everything else, let's open the airports back up
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:35:40]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're not going to let the Democrats get away with this stuff. And people are wise to them, so they need to end the shutdown immediately or we'll have to take some very drastic measures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: President Trump today laying the blame for the DHS shutdown at the feet of Democrats, who he says will face, quote, drastic measures if they don't reach a deal to fund the department. That amid chaos at airports as workers brace for the weekend travel rush and chaos on Capitol Hill, as frustrated negotiators face a Friday deadline before they leave D.C. for a two-week recess.
Senate Republicans awaiting a response from Democrats on what they say is their last and final counteroffer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Democrats kept moving the goalpost. Then they said, we don't want to fund ICE. And then -- and now they're saying we don't want to fund ICE and we want reforms. I mean, I don't know what they -- it's just --- they're talking in circles.
This has got to stop. It needs to stop now. I think they're going to come to their senses. I hope they do. Because if they don't, it's going to be a -- it's going to get really ugly out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now, Democratic congressman from California, Eric Swalwell. He sits on the House Homeland Security Committee.
Congressman, thank you very much for being here.
You heard the senate majority leader there, John Thune. He's in many ways a legislator's legislator. He's playing, you know, and he's -- he's looking at the inside game of his politics. He doesn't throw a lot of grenades as these things go.
You could see the frustration there. I mean, at what point do Democrats need to look at the compromises that have been put on the table and say, okay, we need to do something?
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Well, then he has an opportunity to do what is most reasonable and pays TSA agents immediately, which is to fund TSA and every other component of Homeland Security other than ICE and Border Patrol. But I'll just tell you, talking to Californians all over the state that right now, they fear that you have an ICE that is out of control.
You could be walking down Sunset Boulevard. Someone could pull up in a unmarked car wearing a mask and put you into that van, and you don't know if they're ICE. And if you resist, you might be arrested for resisting arrest, or you might be kidnaped. That's the uncertainty and chaos that they have put into our communities. That's why I'm not voting for another penny for ICE, and that's why most Democrats are united in the same.
HUNT: But isn't ICE funded. It was funded in the Big, Beautiful Bill.
SWALWELL: So why don't we just fund TSA?
HUNT: Well, I mean, in the reality is that in the offer that Senate Republicans brought to you a few days ago, there was a plan to put funding for enforcement at the border. Plus, of course, Republicans want the SAVE Act in a reconciliation package and fund the rest of it.
SWALWELL: That's right.
HUNT: And yet Democrats said no.
SWALWELL: I'm glad you brought that up.
The SAVE Act, just so your viewers understand, it would ban mail in voting, something the president did in the last election. It would essentially make it really hard for women who change their last name when they get married to vote, because they need proof of U.S. citizenship at the polls when they vote, it's a voter intimidation, voter suppression effort, and the president is tying TSA pay to that, which is also absurd.
And also, I don't want to give a penny more to TSA or DHS, even if they are already funded, because what I'm hearing form constituents and what I'm seeing is that they're dragging women by their hair, throwing them into unmarked vans, chasing people through the fields and factories where they work. They've committed public executions, two of them and co signing off on this is just not who we are as Americans.
And there's a simple way to do this. I think you pointed that out at the top. And the senate majority leader would be wise to take that deal.
HUNT: I think that you may have misspoken. You said TSA, you don't want to give another penny to TSA. I think that you meant --
SWALWELL: I'm sorry. Thank you, I meant ICE. Yes. TSA should be paid. ICE and Border Patrol has always been my position that they should not be funded.
HUNT: Of course, I do want to play what the TSA administrator said to lawmakers the other day about what her employees are going through right now. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HA MCNEILL, ACTING TSA ADMINISTRATOR: Some are sleeping in their cars, selling their blood and plasma and taking on jobs -- second jobs to make ends meet.
[16:40:05]
TATIANA FINLAY, TSA UNION MEMBER: At this point, it has come to the point of like having to skip meals, because I have to make sure that my kids are fed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: In some ways, this raises the question, and I know part of why this problem hasn't been as acute in your home state of California is because some airports already do this where you are, or at least they have contracts. Why shouldn't we privatize the TSA?
SWALWELL: Well, I was at LAX last night. It's probably why I misspoke on the last answer. I was on a red eye coming to Washington.
And that is federal employees working there. And my heart breaks for what they are being put through right now. And that's why the way I see it is they should be federal employees.
But equally, my job is to protect a little boy named Joseph in my district, a six-year-old. He and his mom a couple of weeks ago were arrested and deported and sent to Colombia. And she begged that ice agents allow him to take his assistive hearing devices with him. They were so cruel they would not allow him to do that. My staff a couple days later gathered the devices, flew to Colombia and delivered them.
But that's the cruelty that we're dealing with. And my suggestion is fund TSA, don't fund ICE and Border Patrol. That seems to have the most consensus in our country right now.
HUNT: I also want to ask you about another big piece of your political life right now, which is your campaign for governor of California. You are one of a number of Democrats who are running voting starts. I think you said 38 days from now concludes --
SWALWELL: Thirty-eight days, yes.
HUNT: June 5th, I believe. There has been some polling in the California race. And for people who don't know, there is what is known as a jungle primary in California, which means that the top two candidates, regardless of party, move forward to the general election.
And this polling suggests that the top two candidates could both be Republicans, because Democrats are splitting the vote. You, Katie Porter, Tom Steyer, all running.
Should one of you drop out of the race?
SWALWELL: Yeah. Well, I have led in every metric polling, predictive markets, endorsements firefighters. The two largest unions in California and also in our individual fundraising -- thousands of individuals who have contributed to the campaign.
So, we're the momentum California, but there's a real risk and you just point it out, that you could have a Republican governor of California and just imagine what that would mean. That would mean Donald Trump would have a western White House that more Californians would run scared for their lives from ICE. Their health care costs would go up, and more federal funding that goes to cures for cancer would be pulled. And that's what a Republican governor would mean in California. But we're the momentum campaign.
HUNT: So, you're the momentum campaign.
SWALWELL: The next 38 days, we're close.
HUNT: So, you're not going to drop out, is what you're saying?
SWALWELL: Well, yeah, we are the only one that has consistently been in the top two in polling as far as the Democratic side and continue to add endorsements to our campaign. That shows our strength.
We're running to be the fighter protector candidate on behalf of Californians who are scared and also to be the CEO of Lowering the Damn Costs.
HUNT: So who do you hope hears the message that you have about a Trumpian western White House? Katie Porter? Tom Steyer?
SWALWELL: You know, they all have a right to run. We have told other campaigns that there's room for you if you want to join, but that's your decision. The last two candidates who have gotten out of the race have joined our team. And so, that's --
HUNT: So, you had conversations with either Katie Porter or Tom Steyer about encouraging them to make a different decision about the race?
SWALWELL: No, I -- that's their decision to make. And by the way, Kasie, I've been at the other end of the --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: So, you haven't called them? You haven't reached out to them?
SWALWELL: I ran -- yeah. No.
HUNT: No?
SWALWELL: No, no, that's their decision. But I'll tell you, you may remember I will forgive you if you don't. Back in 2019, I was one of 20 people who ran for president. I was at the end of the debate stage.
HUNT: I do remember.
SWALWELL: And I had to be honest with myself about my own chances. This is, you know, six years later, we're now at the center of the stage, and we intend to close and be the fighter protector, candidate for Californians and bring a new California on costs. And so that's my job to do. And we're going to do that in the next 38 days. HUNT: All right. Well, fascinating race for a campaign hack reporter
like myself. So, Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for coming. Hope you come back soon.
SWALWELL: My pleasure.
HUNT: All right. Ahead here in THE ARENA, the 76-year-old friendship that the president today is thinking about breaking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Were there to protect Europe from Russia. In theory, it doesn't affect us. We have an ocean, big, fat, beautiful ocean. But we're there to protect NATO, to protect them from Russia. But they're not there to protect us. It's ridiculous -- it doesn't make sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:49:19]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I said 25 years ago that NATO is a paper tiger, but more importantly, that well come to their rescue. But they will never come to ours. That's why I'm so disappointed in NATO, because this was a test for NATO. This was a test.
You can help us. You don't have to -- if you don't have it. You know, if you don't do that, were going to remember. Just remember. Remember this. And a number of months from now, remember my statements.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The Iran war was a test for NATO, President Trump said today during his cabinet meeting. One he says the 32-member alliance failed when they refused to aid the U.S. in the early days of the conflict. That as Secretary of State Marco Rubio heads to France today to meet with G7 partners, where he'll try to sell the war to them as well.
[16:50:05]
And when asked about his conversations with the U.K. prime minister, President Trump once again cast doubt on the future of the U.S.'s participation in the alliance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Can you explain why he was reluctant to help?
TRUMP: Why what?
REPORTER: Why he was reluctant to help with Iran?
TRUMP: He didn't have to. I didn't ask him. I just said, you tell me. No.
I mean, we're always going to be there. At least we were. I don't know about it anymore, to be honest with you. I have to be honest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining us now is Richard Haass. He is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations.
Richard, thank you so much for being here. It's always great to have you.
What impact do you think the presidents statements this morning about NATO is going to have?
AMB. RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT EMERITUS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, there's two kinds of impacts, Kasie. One is it continues to add to the weakening of this alliance. Technically, we're in it. There's Article Five commitments where every member pledges to come to the aid of all.
But what this does is cast doubt on American reliability. And it takes place after all the problems with tariffs, the disagreements about Ukraine and Russia. And in this crisis, the lack of consultation.
So, I think the most important point is that it weakens further this this alliance that has done such an impressive job for what, for eight decades.
Second of all, though, in the immediate thing of this crisis, it might lead the Europeans to try to find a role for themselves going forward, though here it would help if the United States defined and articulated a role. For example, I can imagine something perhaps to do in the Strait of Hormuz, and there might be a place for the United States, Europe, the local Arab countries to cooperate to keep the strait open. That's the sort of thing that I could imagine the Europeans joining.
HUNT: And when you say that, you can imagine I mean, do you think it's in their best interests to try to do that? The Europeans' best interest?
HAASS: Oh, absolutely. Look, even though they're not that heavily dependent on the region's oil supplies, maybe 10 percent or so of what they consume, they're obviously vulnerable to the economic repercussions and implications of the war, of a prolonged closure of the Strait of Hormuz. They've also got investments in this part of the world.
So, yeah, I think they've got a stake in in restoring some version of an open strait of Hormuz and trying to keep this part of the world. You know, to return it to some semblance of order.
HUNT: The president speaking of the Strait of Hormuz, right after the markets closed, like right after the markets closed today, he says he's extending the deadline for the strait to be reopened. In terms of talking to Iran, he's extending the deadline to April 6th. What does that mean, do you think?
HAASS: It means that the United States doesn't particularly want to escalate against Iran, because what I think would happen is that Iran would attack the energy infrastructure and the water infrastructure of its -- of its neighbors if we go after Iran's energy infrastructure, and everybody would lose if that were to happen.
So, I think the president wants to give more time for negotiations to work. I think -- I think it's almost that simple.
HUNT: So I've been enjoying your Substack and you recently posted, you made a post that -- that said -- that argued Michael Dukakis had a point and you referenced this line that he had at the DNC saying at the time that the 88 campaign wasn't about ideology, it was about competence. And you say that that applies to our current situation.
Explain.
HAASS: I'm sorry to say this has not been a demonstration of competence. I don't think the administration made a case for going to war. Its articulation of objectives has been all over the place. It didn't seem to understand Iran's nature. It's resilience, didn't anticipate Iran's retaliation. It's a long list of things that the administration has gotten wrong here, and I think it reflects their confidence, their misplaced confidence.
After Venezuela, not appreciating the differences between the two situations, the lack of a careful policy process, the fact that they've so weakened several of the institutions in the national security arena, and you pay a price for that.
At the end of the day, policy and process are closely correlated, and this administration has very little in the way of rigorous policy making.
HUNT: Who do you look to for competence in this administration? Is it Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance, who around the president?
HAASS: Look, I think there are some people who have better reputations than others. I think I'll probably hurt them now by saying this, but the director of the CIA, John Ratcliffe, has a pretty good reputation.
[16:55:03]
The secretary of state is admired by some people. What's not clear is how much influence he has over this set of issues.
But I think those who are the principals in this have not, shall we say, earned the confidence of most -- of most observers. Let's just be blunt about it.
HUNT: All right. Fair enough. Richard Haass, always grateful to have your expertise on the show, sir. Thank you so much. Hope you'll come back. HAASS: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here.
Thanks to you at home for watching as well.
Don't forget, you can now stream THE ARENA live. You can catch up whenever you want in the CNN app. That QR code is right there on your screen.
You can also catch up by listening to THE ARENA's podcast. There's another QR code for that, also on your screen.
You can also follow us on X and Instagram @TheArenaCNN.
But don't go anywhere. Phil Mattingly is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Phil.
