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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump Sets Newest Deadline For Deal Or "We're Blowing Up" Iran; Now: Artemis II Astronauts Are Flying Around The Moon. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 06, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Collapsible urinal.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yes.
KEILAR: Wow, that's not so great.
SANCHEZ: At least they don't have to hold it.
KEILAR: Hey, at least the view is unbelievable, right?
SANCHEZ: Redundancy is part of the plan.
KEILAR: Amazing.
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
KEILAR: "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" starts now.
(MUSIC)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off. I'm Pamela Brown and it's great to have you with us on this Monday.
And as we come on the air, the clock is ticking on Iran with President Donald Trump's latest deadline to make a deal little more than 24 hours away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The entire country can be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Just moments ago, President Trump reiterated his threat to attack Iran's civilian infrastructure if they don't agree to a deal by tomorrow at 8:00 p.m., a threat he made using explicit language on Sunday morning.
The president writing, quote, "Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day, all wrapped up in one, in Iran. There will be nothing like it. Open the effing -- although you see the word, except the president, you know, didn't say effing -- strait, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah. President Donald J. Trump," end quote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have a plan because of the power of our military, where every bridge in Iran will be decimated by 12:00 tomorrow night, where every power plant in Iran will be out of business, burning, exploding, and never to be used again. I mean, complete demolition by 12:00, and it will happen over a period of four hours if we wanted to. We don't want that to happen. Do I want to destroy their infrastructure? No. It will take them 100 years to rebuild.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, throughout the last six weeks, President Trump has given a wide range of answers to what victory would look like and what conditions he'd be willing to accept from the Iranians. So, the question right now is whether he will once again change his mind or extend this deadline. Either way, the next 24 hours could end up being a turning point in a war that still has no clear end in sight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Which is it? Are you winding this down? Are you?
TRUMP: Can't tell you. I can't tell you, I don't know, I can't tell you -- it depends what they do. This is a critical period. They have until tomorrow. Now, we'll see what happens.
I can tell you they're negotiating we think in good faith. We're going to find out. We're giving them until tomorrow, 8:00 Eastern Time. And after that, they're going to have no bridges. They're going to have no power plants, Stone Ages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA. My panel is here along with CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, to start with you, you were at the president's news conference earlier today. What stood out to you?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what stood out to me the most is that he seems incredibly emboldened, particularly by that military rescue of those airmen, which, of course, by every account does seem incredibly remarkable of the U.S. military.
He seemed to kind of bounce off of that. Talking about, as you just played there, the sound bombing them back to the stone ages, completely destroying the infrastructure within four hours. If they don't meet the deadline and making it clear that he believed he had every right to do so, despite questions about whether or not this would be war crimes.
And one of the questions that I was able to ask him was about the Strait of Hormuz, because we heard President Trump at times say, it doesn't matter, that it will open automatically after we get out of this. And then we saw the post that you just played over the weekend.
So, here's our exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Are you willing to make a deal that does not include reopening the Strait of Hormuz, or is that now a top priority?
TRUMP: I would say it's a very big priority because -- you see that's one thing that's a little different. They're very good bullshit artists. That's why for 47 years, they've been bullshitting other presidents and they haven't done the job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So, you heard him there not really directly answering the question, saying that it is a top priority, but then also indicating that it's a little bit different with the Strait of Hormuz, which of course is something that we've been reporting on. He went into kind of a long tangent in the middle there talking about mines and the that they can just put mines inside the strait. And he doesn't actually believe that there are mines there. Classic Donald Trump weave, but we still are asking the question as to what exactly is good enough that he will accept.
Remember, he said earlier this morning that the 45-day ceasefire proposal was not good enough, but it was a good starting point. What would he be willing to accept to prolong this deadline tomorrow and to not bomb civilian infrastructure?
BROWN: Yeah. What would he be willing to accept? What would the Iranians be willing to accept? Because we know they rejected that 45- day ceasefire deal.
Thank you so much, Kristen Holmes, live for us from the White House.
And my panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN contributor and "New York Times" journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro, CNN political director and Washington bureau chief David Chalian, Democratic congressman from Maryland, Johnny Olszewski. Did I get that right?
REP. JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI (D-MD): Yeah.
BROWN: Okay. He serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
And we're also joined by CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.
You also go by Johnny O., for a reason.
OLSZEWSKI: That's right. BROWN: Let's be honest on that point.
All right. So, Scott, let's start with you, shall we?
We've recently seen President Trump set these deadlines and make threats only to delay them in order to give negotiations time to play out. And we have the receipts for that. On March 21st, he demanded the strait be opened in 48 hours. Then he gave them a five-day deadline, then a 10-day deadline, and then four days later, he demanded the strait be opened immediately. And now we're at the end of those 10 days looking at 8:00 p.m. tomorrow.
Do you think the president is going to change his mind again and issue a new, new deadline? What's going to happen here?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, two thoughts. One, he got asked this, this morning on the South Lawn at the Easter egg roll, and he said, no, highly unlikely to change that. But number two, they're obviously talking. I know there are intermediaries involved. The Pakistani government is one. They're obviously exchanging information.
And as you heard from the president, you know, he never wants to box himself in. But he's obviously wanting to bring this to an end in a way that meets our objectives and in a way that we don't have to further the destruction inside of Iran. And so, you know, it's probably opaque to all of us sitting here about the status of these back-channel negotiations, because we're not in the middle of it.
But I think that's what most Americans want. They'd like to know, did we meet our military objectives? Have we defanged this terrorist state? And are we bringing this to an end in the fastest way that we can, and in a way that keeps Iran from being a pest and a menace and a state sponsor of terror in the future.
Those are the outstanding questions. But ill just go back to what I said at the start. The president said this morning he's highly unlikely to move the 8:00 Tuesday deadline, and I wouldn't expect him to do that publicly, just as a matter of posturing on behalf of the government.
BROWN: But just -- if the Hormuz -- Strait of Hormuz isn't opened up by 8:00 p.m. tomorrow night, as a Republican, would you support the U.S. government destroying civilian infrastructure in Iran as Trump is threatening?
JENNINGS: Well, I would support us doing anything we have to do to meet our military objectives. And so, you know, I'll leave that to the commander in chief on how he wants to do that and how we think best to do that.
I would note that last week, the British government convened a meeting of 40 nations to talk about how they might keep the Strait of Hormuz policed and open into the future, which, by the way, is exactly what the president asked for, which was an international a group of countries getting together and working on this problem so that Iran doesn't continue to be a pest, an economic pest to the world. So maybe that's going on. And at the same time, these diplomatic conversations are going on. But that's my -- that's my view.
BROWN: All right. So let's watch what the president said earlier in the day about what he wants from this war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I had my choice, what would I like to do? Take the oil. Because it's there for the taking. There's not a thing they can do about it. Unfortunately, the American people would like to see us come home. If it were up to me, I'd take the oil. I'd keep the oil and would make plenty of money.
If I had my choice, I'd keep the oil. But I also want to make the people of our country happy. I think most people wouldn't understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It sounds like the president does understand that many voters, Lulu, are not on board with this war. The way he was talking there.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, he apparently has been engaged with reality in the past few days after being told that he was only being fed, you know, positive images of infrastructure being blown up in Iran. At the end of the day, it is unclear to me how much public opinion matters to this president. He is not going to be reelected. And so it's -- I don't -- I don't see that as a motivating factor.
What I think is really kind of shocking and frankly upsetting is that he is threatening war crimes, essentially to get what he wants. You know, this is something that --
BROWN: You're saying by going after civilian infrastructure.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: By going after -- well, by threatening to go after civilian infrastructure, by saying that he doesn't, you know, is going to bomb it back to the stone age, by essentially saying he doesn't care what happens to the civilian population there.
I mean, this is a government in Iran that doesn't actually care about its own population. I mean, it doesn't. This is not a government there that is invested in the well-being of the Iranian people, because fundamentally, they've been killing their own people.
And so, by compounding that and saying that the United States is going to bomb civilian infrastructure, I mean, I know people who live in Iran who are against the government. How exactly is this supposed to help the long-term positioning of the United States? What you're creating there, instead of allies and friends among the Iranian people is people who are eventually going to say, actually, the United States is going to murder and kill us, and they don't care about us.
So, I don't see this as like in any way, shape or form strategically smart or really in the best interest of the United States.
BROWN: And then there's the domestic politics. You know, the oil prices that you can't ignore that that is being directly impacted by this war, even though the U.S. does produce a lot of its own oil.
[16:10:08]
You have Mark Zandi saying -- the economist, Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's -- saying, I don't think we're going back to the pre-war prices for the foreseeable future, certainly won't be this year, won't even be next year, might not be ever.
David, how much do you think the domestic impact of this war is weighing on the president right now?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah, I have never seen a president who doesn't care about public opinion. So, I do think he does care about public opinion. I take your point. He's not on the ballot this year. His party is and he's not able to run for reelection.
But I -- but it may not be determinative, but it clearly has an impact on his desire. Scott was saying to see this thing come to some sort of conclusion, because that's what the public is kind of demanding. And so, I think he is responsive to that.
But what is so clear to me is that the president, this president specifically, but any president but this one reliably on a daily basis, is always looking for maximum optionality. And so that's why I don't think any deadline he sets, as we've seen him, evade other deadlines. If there's the slightest glimpse that there is some progress in communication, even through an intermediary or not, I would imagine a new deadline will be set because that's what he's done. He is never going to, like, lock himself into something, despite the bellicose.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Rhetoric becomes meaningless, doesn't it? I mean, this is the problem that I see with the way that Trump manages these things is that they have, like such a short window, he is looking hours, days. He's not looking, you know, strategically and thinking weeks, months or even years. It's all about just the very short-term win.
And let us not forget, this is like, what is happening right now is that the world energy sources are being held hostage by the Iranians. And meanwhile, that is affecting everyone all across the globe. This isn't just, hey, tariffs, which now seem like small potatoes compared to what's happening now.
BROWN: How are you looking at this, Congressman?
OLSZEWSKI: I'll give the president credit. He's already made everybody mad about taking away health care and food supports and raising taxes on hardworking, lower income families and working families, and giving that money to the ultra-wealthy. But now he's doing.
JENNINGS: What taxes did he raise? OLSZEWSKI: Now he's doing it also.
JENNINGS: What are you talking about?
OLSZEWSKI: Look at the -- look at the gas prices. Look at the Amazon.
JENNINGS: I know you voted against the tax cuts last summer, right? I know you're familiar with tax increases.
OLSZEWSKI: I would say take a look at the totality of what was presented. We could have passed a lot of those tax cuts like the Senate did with unanimous consent on no taxes on tips, Scott.
So, the president has now has people mad about what they're paying at the pump, what they're paying in health care, if they still have it, what they're paying at the grocery store. And they're really mad about what's happening at war. This is a president. This post is indicative of a president who is losing control not only of the war, but also what's happening here in the United States.
BROWN: Well, and in terms of the Strait of Hormuz, which is key to all of this, this is what the president has been saying about that. He's been all over the map.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When the time comes, the U.S. Navy and its partners will escort tankers through the strait if needed. I hope it's not going to be needed.
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: They're exercising sheer desperation in the Straits of Hormuz, something we're dealing with. We have been dealing with it and don't need to worry about it.
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Over time, the U.S. is going to retake control of the straits and there will be freedom of navigation.
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's countries around the world should be stepping up and dealing with that.
TRUMP: We have nothing to do with that. What happens in the strait, we're not going to have anything to do with.
When this conflict is over, the strait will open up naturally. It'll just open up naturally.
The only thing they have is the psychology of, oh, we're going to drop a couple of mines in the water. All right? No -- I mean, we have a concept where we'll charge tolls. Okay?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: If you're the layperson listening to all that, do you think it's easy to follow, Scott, where the administration is as it pertains to this? Strait of Hormuz that directly impacts the everyday American? JENNINGS: Well, not necessarily. No. And obviously, the circumstances
of what's going on there change every day. Some ships are moving through more than they have in the past.
But you know, when you come out of this, I would think you need to be able to tell the American people a few things. One, did we take away the nuclear program? Two, have we solved the energy situation with the logistics piece of it? Number three, did we take away their ability to be a state sponsor of terror and so on? But I think the energy piece is --
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: The ships that are moving through are Russian. The ships that are moving through are Chinese. These are our strategic -- you know, and, and not only that, because they have actually lifted some of these sanctions, the Iranians are making more money now than they ever have before.
JENNINGS: So, you want the Strait of Hormuz closed for certain countries?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, what I'm -- what I'm actually saying is that what has happened here is that it has been a disaster for the energy markets, and also for the strategic interests of the United States. The supposed enemies of the United States, be it Russia, be it China, be it Iran, are now making more money than they have before.
So, I just don't understand. I guess I'm trying to understand really from this administration what the purpose of this is.
[16:15:00]
What is the end game now that is going to make this sort of resolve itself in a way that is beneficial for the American people.
JENNINGS: The end game has always been very clear to me. They're not going to have a nuclear weapon. That's number one. Number two, they're not going to be a state sponsor of terror.
And number three, if they're smart, they'll make a deal with us and make a deal with their neighbors in the Gulf that we are going to have this strait open, and they're going to allow themselves to reenter the world here not as a pest, but as a partner to the rest of the world.
CHALIAN: On one and two, though, hasn't the administration -- hasn't the president and the secretary of war already sort of said those military objectives have been accomplished?
BROWN: Yeah. I mean, the president said today --
CHALIAN: They've destroyed the navy. They've removed it as a nuclear threat. Isn't that already done?
JENNINGS: Well, I mean --
BROWN: The president said today they were done.
JENNINGS: I think it's largely accomplished. I think there's, you know, a couple thousand more military targets left to hit. They indicated last week there was probably two or three more weeks of that.
But I think as a closing matter, if you reach an agreement with Iran, I think you have to list out why this was worth it. There will be no nukes. There'll be no aggressive navy, there'll be no missile and drone program. And they have also agreed to stop harassing ships here in the Strait of Hormuz.
To me, if that is your end game and that's where you wind up, that's a great outcome.
BROWN: We'll see if that happens.
OLSZEWSKI: If you believe that, I've got a used car to sell to sell you, because that's not going to happen under this administration the way they're conducting business.
BROWN: All right.
JENNINGS: You don't think we can defeat Iran?
OLSZEWSKI: I think the way this administration is conducting the war, all that we have lost are American lives. The costs have gone up, and we've spent hundreds of billions of dollars. We're asking to spend that billions for bombs, nothing for basics. And we're an intractable place where there are still military materials -- I mean, nuclear materials in Iran and --
BROWN: Enriched uranium.
OLSZEWSKI: And enriched uranium. And the regime is more extreme.
BROWN: All right, you guys, stand by. Thank you very much. I hope you all got to get your points in.
Everyone, stand by for this breaking news. History is being made right now as the Artemis II mission begins, the first manned lunar flyby in more than 50 years. The four-person crew, now roughly a quarter of a million miles away from Earth, that is farther than into space than any humans have ever traveled. And they will soon glimpse portions of the moon never before seen by the naked eye.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is live at the Johnson Space Center in Houston.
Ed, what are you hearing and seeing from mission control in this exciting, historic mission?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, what we are seeing unfold today is simply riveting. These four astronauts aboard the Orion capsule are getting closer and closer to the moon. They are now in the lunar -- in that lunar flyby period, where they are in the process of documenting, taking thousands of pictures over the course of the -- of the next few hours. It started about an hour and a half ago.
They basically have a road map of all the different areas of the moon that they are working with science teams here on the ground at Johnson Space Center to document. But before all of this started, they reached the milestone as the humans who have traveled farthest away from the Planet Earth, topping a mark that was established by the Apollo 13 crew back in 1970, which they were -- they got about 248,000 miles away from the earth. This crew is going over 252,000. We'll have to see what the final calculations will be once they reach that point.
But this is what it sounded like when that moment happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We surpassed the furthest distance humans have ever traveled from Planet Earth. We do so in honoring the extraordinary efforts and feats of our predecessors in human space exploration. We will continue our journey even further into space before mother earth succeeds in pulling us back to everything that we hold dear. But we, most importantly, choose this moment to challenge this generation and the next, to make sure this record is not long lived.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: And, Pamela, the way these -- this crew is working, that there are two astronauts taking pictures, making sure they snap pictures of all the targets that they want to see. And then there are other two astronauts who are when they're not taking pictures, are almost giving like a live play by play of what they're seeing, what they're describing. And that stuff has just been fascinating to listen to.
Astronaut Christina Koch was talking about if you look at the image there of the moon, you see these little white specks on it. She described it as seeing light coming through the pinholes on a lampshade. That's the way she described it. These are small little craters.
Also talked about seeing such detail in the topography that she had never been able to see before in any of the lunar images. So that constant play by play and description, back to the science teams here on the ground is one of the things we will continue to hear over the next few hours. And all of this culminating that during this blackout period, where about 6:40 Eastern Time, where we will lose communication with the Artemis crew. And that is part of the plan. They will come to the closest point to the moon, about 4,000 miles -- Pamela.
BROWN: Wow, incredible. And I love that they're sharing all of that with us in real time. So, we can feel like we're along the journey with them.
Ed Lavandera at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, thank you so much.
And coming up in THE ARENA, how President Trump's latest deadline for Iran is being perceived by leaders in Tehran. We're going to talk with someone who's been inside the room with the president during decisions on high stakes military operations.
Former national security advisor John Bolton is here live.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you winding this down? Are you --
TRUMP: I can't tell you, I don't know, I can't tell you, it depends what they do
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you concerned that your threat to bomb power plants and bridges amount to crimes?
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TRUMP: No, not all. No, no. I'm not. I hope I don't have to do it.
We had numerous presidents that were weak, ineffective, and afraid of Iran. We're never going to let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President Trump today shrugging off a question about whether bombing Iranian civilian infrastructure would be a war crime, that coming after he threatened once again over the weekend to strike the country's power plants, as well as its bridges. If Tehran does not reopen the Strait of Hormuz by tomorrow night.
Joining us now is former Trump national security advisor, Ambassador John Bolton.
Nice to see you, Ambassador.
So, you heard President Trump or you saw in his truth social post that was profanity-laced, this threat to make tomorrow, quote, "power plant day and bridge day." If you were advising the president now, would you encourage him to follow through with those specific threats to civilian infrastructure, if tomorrow's deadline comes and goes?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Well, let's take a look at the phrase "civilian infrastructure". There's less there than meets the eye.
First off, the Revolutionary Guard is typically thought to hold control over about 40 percent of Iran's economy, from which they derive revenues. Their generals derive revenues. The guard itself derives revenues. They're part of the war machine, 40 percent of the economy.
Next, the prohibition is against attacking civilian targets. But, for example, a power plant that provides energy to a military base, to a military facility, to a military manufacturing operation is a legitimate target. There's collateral, civilian damage, that's true, but it's a legitimate target.
And what we've seen is that Iran, like Hamas, has spent a lot of effort building a military machine underground, but it's left the power for that machine on top of the ground. And I think it's perfectly obvious that highways can be used to move men and equipment. And for military purposes.
So, the word "civilian infrastructure" are not talismanic. You have to look at specifics. And presumably, that's what the lawyers and the pentagon are doing as they go down the target list. I think we have very high priority and not violating that prohibition against hitting civilian targets. And let's see what happens.
BROWN: Right. But -- I mean, the president has mentioned, for example, desalination plants. It's not just the military that would rely on that, right? It's the civilian population for clean drinking oil and power infrastructure that would give the civilian population power, even though the military also relies on it.
So how do you untangle the two here?
BOLTON: Yeah, it's -- look -- well, it's the first thing to say is there's a lot of untangling to do. You cannot say civilian infrastructure and say home free. That's not the way it works.
Second, if you want examples in practice of how the United States behaves, consider the bombing of Nazi Germany and imperial Japan. Unless people are prepared to say we committed war crimes in the bombing of Japan and Germany, then they can expect something like that as justifiable over Iran.
BROWN: So the president has made a lot of threats, but hasn't followed through. He keeps extending deadlines. If this deadline comes and goes without the Strait of Hormuz being open, what do you think should happen? I mean, do you think the president should follow through otherwise? Do you think he risks just sending messages that his all of his threats are empty?
BOLTON: Well, I think he's worried about the TACO charge. Trump always chickens out. I think this is a result of poor planning on his part. I think it's important that he consult with the Gulf Arab countries. And if they don't like this approach, going after, energy infrastructure in particular associated with oil and gas produced by Iran, then we should hear what their alternatives are.
I don't know whether that consultation has gone forward or not, but the end result, in my view, ought to be regime change. I don't know what Trump's objective is. I know what my objective would be.
And all the talk about ending the nuclear program, ending the terrorist threat, ending the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, all depends on getting a different regime. All we're doing right now and we're doing it very effectively, is what the Israelis call mowing the lawn.
I don't want to mow the lawn anymore. I want this threat removed.
BROWN: So, President Trump today said you know, regime change was in our goal. But there has been regime change because we took out the first round of leadership. And the second round in this round is much more pragmatic and smart, he said.
But the bottom line is this ideology against the U.S., against the West is pervasive in Iran, as you know, and the world's two most capable militaries, the U.S. and Israel, have been working together to kill off Iranian leaders and the IRGC. And the IRGC is still in control in Iran six weeks in. Then what is the likelihood that there will be regime change, that they will be wiped out at this point?
BOLTON: Well, first off, the regime has not changed.
[16:30:01]
It's still the same regime for the reasons you state. It's the ideology that controls.
Second, it took the ayatollahs and the Revolutionary Guard 47 years to build this state. We're six weeks in. People are in a hurry. It's like a bunch of kids in the back seat of a car saying, are we there yet? Are we there yet? No, we're not there yet.
The people in Iran, need to be able to have flexibility to help pull this regime apart at the top. And I think fractures at the top of the regime are already underway. And I think there are people, even in the regime who are saying, this ship is going down, and I don't want to go down with it. That doesn't mean the people go out into the streets to be indiscriminately machine gunned. But there's a lot going on.
I thought the most important thing the president has said in the past, past day is that we gave weapons to the Kurds in northwestern Iran to transmit to other opposition forces. Apparently, they didn't get past the Kurds. I'd like to know more about that, but I say if the opposition wants weapons, we should get in as many as we can.
BROWN: But if -- if the United States and Israel can't take out the IRGC, then what would guns and the hands of Iranian protesters? What would --
BOLTON: But let's define, "take it out". Let's define "take it out". The regime announced and many people said with great glee who were opposed to the war, the IRGC decentralized its control structures into each of the 31 provinces. There's no real indication the regime has its act together.
I think there are still elements of repression that exist, but we are systematically taking them apart. At least I hope we're still doing that. Six weeks is not a lot of time. It's not a lot of time. And that may be politically difficult for Trump. That's a political
consideration. He should have weighed before.
Somebody said, what -- World War Two took over three years. Oh, is that -- does that mean we shouldn't have fought it? I think if you want to remove the threat, you have to face the logic that after 47 years, the regime has not changed its behavior and it's not going to change it in year 48.
If you want to be free of the nuclear threat, free of the terrorist threat, free of the threat of closing the Strait of Hormuz, the logic is change the regime.
BROWN: John Bolton, thank you so much. We appreciate it.
BOLTON: Thank you.
BROWN: And up next in THE ARENA -- more of our coverage of the historic Artemis II mission. As the crew gets ready for its slingshot around the moon, we'll talk with the former astronaut, as humans go further into space than they ever have in history.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We surpassed the furthest distance humans have ever traveled from planet earth. We do so in honoring the extraordinary efforts and feats of our predecessors in human space exploration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:12]
BROWN: Welcome back.
Right now, the Artemis II crew is going where literally no humans have ever gone before. Earlier this afternoon, they broke the record for the furthest distance humans have traveled from Earth on their way to the far side of the moon, and in an emotional moment after they broke that record, they asked the name for a crater on the after -- the crater after Commander Reid Wiseman's late wife, Carroll.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, we lost a loved one. Her name was Carroll. The spouse of Reid, the mother of Katie and Elie. And if you want to find this one, you look at Glushko and it's just to the northwest of that, at the same latitude as Ohm. And it's a -- it's a bright spot on the moon. And we would like to call it Carroll.
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BROWN: Very sweet. I want to bring in former NASA astronaut, retired Colonel Ron Garan
and CNN anchor Boris Sanchez.
As you probably know, he covered and watched the historic Artemis mission launch live. A lot of us here at CNN pretty jealous of that assignment, Boris.
So, we're going to talk about that in just a moment. But colonel, I want to start with you. The crew is already seeing some awesome features.
And I want to play what Christina Koch was describing.
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CHRISTINA KOCH, ARTEMIS II ASTRONAUT: And Houston, another observation whole moon, when you look at the moon, something I've never seen in photographs before, but is very apparent, all the really bright new craters. Some of them are super tiny. Most of them are pretty small. There's a couple that really stand out, obviously, and what it really looks like is like a lampshade with tiny pinprick holes and the light shining through. They are so bright compared to the rest of the moon.
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BROWN: Wow. So, what do we hope to learn by sending humans to the far side of the moon?
COL. RON GARAN (RET.), FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Well, I mean, that's a beautiful description, but there's also data in there. That's scientific data. That's why we send humans on exploration.
And I listened in to this crews science briefing about a few hours ago. And it is a very, very highly choreographed, you know, few hours on the -- on the far side of the moon where they're capturing a bunch of science.
And a lot of what they're capturing is human observation. And there's their different sensors. The human eye is a different sensor than some of the other sensors that robotic probes have. And it's valuable data that you can only get with humans.
BROWN: Yeah. They also said the more they look at the moon, the browner and browner it looks. Any ideas why that would be the case?
GARAN: No. I mean, maybe their eyes are adjusting. Maybe the focus is, maybe -- maybe emotions are getting involved. I don't -- I don't know, I couldn't, I couldn't --
BROWN: Interesting theories.
All right. So, Boris, yesterday, pilot Victor Glover had a pretty special Easter message for us back on Earth. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VICTOR GLOVER, ARTEMIS II ASTRONAUT: Maybe the distance we are from you makes you think what we're doing is special. But we're the same distance from you. And I'm trying to tell you, just trust me. You are special.
In all of this emptiness, this is a whole bunch of nothing. This thing we call the universe. You have this oasis, this beautiful place that we get to exist together.
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BROWN: The mission really has been such a great example of what we can achieve when we work together, right?
You were at the Kennedy Space Center when Artemis II started its journey. What do you take away from his message?
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR, "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": I mean, obviously, it's moving. Just as we heard from Commander Reid Wiseman regarding his wife, Carroll, this is a moment to unite humanity. And hearing him speak emotionally about that is so moving and so grounding. Here you have this astronaut relating to feelings that we have here on Earth regarding loss and the hope to pass along what others that have impacted us closely have felt and have shared with us.
And there you have the pilot Victor Glover the first black man to reach lunar orbit, describing this oasis in darkness. Right? How could you not be moved by the idea that we're united on this pale blue dot on this planet, watching something that no one has ever done achieve?
In speaking to former astronauts like the colonel, NASA officials, and even William Shatner, who we talked to last week during the launch, there's a sentimentality to it, but also some concern about what is happening on this planet, the way we're taking care of it, and the hope of these officials and former astronauts is that this is a moment to look to, to recognize our own humanity and connect with an aspirational view of what mankind can achieve, Pam.
BROWN: I know a lot of astronauts when they're up there and they look back and see, they say they wish the whole population could have the same experience because it would really change their perspective, right, of humanity and being here and how were so connected.
And colonel, the Artemis crew challenged this generation to break their record. When do you think it will be broken? What's next for space exploration?
GARAN: Artemis III is going to stay in low earth orbit, so it won't be broken on that mission. But hopefully the mission after that. But what's more important than getting the farthest away from the Earth is landing on the moon. And that's the -- that's what this mission is.
This is a stepping stone for a permanent human presence on the moon. This is a transition from the idea of returning to the moon, to the reality of returning to the moon. BROWN: Yeah, I think that's an important reminder because I think a
lot of people are asking, well, hold on, the U.S. has landed on the moon before. Why are we now? Why is it such a big deal just to slingshot around the moon? And it's to get a better sight of all the different aspects of it? And this similar journey is going to happen again next year. Is that right, Colonel?
GARAN: Well, we're -- like I said, we're going to check out the systems in low earth orbit. So, we'll have an SLS launch. Hopefully, we'll have a lander to check out. At the time, one of -- one of the two landers that are in competition right now to be the next landing on the moon. And so, yeah, it's going to be a very, very exciting time.
BROWN: So, Boris, as I mentioned, you were at the Kennedy Space Center when the Artemis II started its journey. Tell us more what that was like and how you're feeling now, several days into it about this whole mission.
SANCHEZ: You know, Pam, part of the reason that I think we both became journalists is because we wanted to witness history firsthand. And you crave moments that are historic in part to document them for history, but also to feel something, to be moved by them. And I've never experienced anything like that.
I think the colonel could probably better speak to what it's like to be inside when something like that is launching, but from the outside it is -- you're in awe. It took my breath away. I had to remind myself to breathe because it was first off, everything shakes.
So, we were miles away. But the entire set we were on was shaking as this thing tears through the sky. It's deafening. It's extremely loud.
On top of it, what I didn't expect. You feel the heat coming off of this rocket. Theres like a vapor that hits you in a wave after it's about 30 seconds in the air. And it's like really hard to look at because it's so bright. The flames coming off the engines are like a sun in itself.
I've never experienced anything like that. Of course, in a sense, you're bracing yourself to make sure that everything goes well, that it exits orbit, and then once it does, you're sort of caught in a moment of awe, recognizing that you've seen the sublime and hoping that you get to see another one again soon. It was like riding a roller coaster.
BROWN: Yeah. And you interviewed NASA administrator Jared Isaacman before Artemis to achieve liftoff. How does this 10-day mission fit into NASA's goal of getting humans back on the moon? Tell us more about that.
SANCHEZ: So, to the colonel's point, next year with Artemis III, you're going to see potentially the docking of a lunar lander in near earth orbit. That's a huge step, because that is how NASA's planning to eventually get to the moon with a landing with Artemis four.
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That's scheduled for early 2028 or so. And then Artemis V, using that SLS system that that has been successfully manned with Artemis II, they're hoping to get again to the surface of the moon by 2028. And then hopefully having annual trips after that, potentially using different craft.
But the idea is that this sets us up, this mission where they're scouting real estate all over the moon to eventually establish some sort of presence that could lead eventually to Mars. But it is obviously a huge step in that process, Pam.
BROWN: Yeah. Very cool. I could go on and on about this.
Boris Sanchez, retired Colonel Ron Garan, thank you both. We appreciate it.
And up next in THE ARENA, President Trump is going after an important American ally. Just two days before a critical visit.
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TRUMP: I'm very disappointed in NATO. Very. I think that NATO -- I think it's a mark on NATO that will never disappear, never disappear in my mind. You know, they're coming to see me on Wednesday. They're going to say, oh, we'll do this. We'll do that
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BROWN: Welcome back.
This afternoon, President Trump and his top national security officials provided new details about that daring rescue operation that saved a U.S. airman shot down over Iran. The president revealing that hundreds of people in the military took part in the effort to find the stranded air force colonel who, while hidden in a mountain crevice, treated his own wounds as he waited for help.
CIA Director John Ratcliffe, comparing the operation to, quote, "hunting for a single grain of sand in the middle of a desert."
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TRUMP: The second rescue mission involved 155 aircraft, including four bombers, 64 fighters, 48 refueling tankers, 13 rescue aircraft and more. We were bringing them all over, and a lot of it was subterfuge. We wanted to have them think he was in a different location because they had a vast military force out there. Thousands, thousands of people were looking.
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BROWN: Joining us now is former NATO supreme allied commander, retired Admiral James Stavridis.
Nice to see you, Admiral.
So, I mean, by all accounts, this was an incredible military feat. But at the same time, the Iranians obviously struck down several U.S. aircraft in the past few days, despite assertions that we had America had air superiority. And at the same time, we were able to pull off this remarkable rescue on Iranian soil.
Given all of the events of the last three days, how would you assess the level of control that the U.S. is exercising over Iranian skies?
ADMIRAL JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's fair to say we have air superiority verging on air dominance, and it's important to remember, Pamela, that you have to think in terms of altitude. So, we completely own the high altitudes at this point where our big bombers go. Those medium level areas, I think are safely in our control.
But when you get down to those lower level operations that are close to the ground, I think back to Afghanistan. The Taliban had zero capability. We thought, and yet they were able to use shoulder fired missiles that we provided them against the Soviets, and then they turned around and used them against us.
So, as you get further and further in a campaign and your target sets have to be more precise, have to be closer to the ground. And as you're showing there on the video. When you have to fly low, there are times when you are vulnerable. That's what happened here.
Thank God the U.S. military did have the capacity to bring that massive level of resources to find and bring this brave colonel home.
BROWN: Yeah. Really incredible. And the fact that it was a colonel. Sources I've been speaking with say it's rare for a colonel to be in that position. And you have to imagine, you know, what would have happened had the Iranians gotten to him first.
So, thank goodness he is safe and in stable condition, we're told.
But you know, it does raise the question, could this happen again? And we have learned a lot of the details, including the subterfuge aspect of this. And you know, roughly how many people were involved and so forth. Do you think we revealed too much to Iranians about our modus operandi here?
STAVRIDIS: I think that is a concern. And frankly, I would wish that the whole CIA part of this had stayed in the shadows because it will cause doubt. On the other hand, the next time it happens, and could it happen again, certainly, there'll be another layer of doubt and deceit simply by the fact that the Iranians will not be aware of whether we revealed it positively or not. Sort of circles within circles here.
So, I wouldn't overthink that. The bottom line here is CIA played an important part. Our military did a magnificent job. And again, as I've said before, that's probably 45-year-old guy, who calls himself 7,000 feet up the side of a mountain. I can't wait to see who he is. And he's going to end up to be one of those annoyingly handsome air force colonels, I suspect. But my hat is off to him.
BROWN: That -- we'll wait and see. The administration has not released his name.
Retired Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much. Great to see you.
And we'll be right back.
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BROWN: Welcome back, everyone.
Look at this one more time. Before we go. This is a live look of the moon from the Artemis II mission.
The four astronauts on board are currently doing their lunar flyby, taking them further into space than any humans in history. Pretty incredible. And right now, they are more than 251,000 miles from Earth, and about 6,000 miles from the moon.
BROWN: Christina Koch and Victor Glover are currently at the windows, and they are taking pictures before swapping out so other crew members can get a look at their own. So far, the astronauts have said the moon actually looks more brown up close.
"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts now.
