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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

WH: Trump's "A Whole Civilization Will Die" Was "Not An Empty Threat"; Trump: "I Do" Believe God Supports U.S. In War With Iran; Melania Trump: "I Am Not Epstein's Victim". Melania Trump: "I Am Not Epstein's Victim"; 2022: Ketanji Brown Jackson Confirmed As Supreme Court Justice; The Stunning Photos From The Artemis II Moon Mission. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 11, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: You can find all of our shows online as podcasts at CNN.com/audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Hi everyone, I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to The Arena Saturday.

We are now, if you can believe it, a month and a half into Operation Epic Fury. But this week, something seemed to change following President Donald Trump's astounding threat that, quote, "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again" if Iran didn't reach a deal and open the Strait of Hormuz.

So everybody wondered just how far the President would go to back up those words. And then, just minutes before his apocalyptic deadline, President Trump announced a two-week ceasefire. That remarkable 180 leading many to argue that the President had once again chickened out, or as it's now abbreviated, taco'd. The administration, of course, says absolutely not. It all went just according to plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We had a target set locked and loaded of infrastructure, bridges, power plants.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: His very tough rhetoric and his tough negotiating style is what has led to the result that you are all witnessing today.

HEGSETH: That type of threat is what brought them to the place where they effectively say, OK, we want to cut this deal.

LEAVITT: And it was the Iranians who backed down, not President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: All right, my panel's here in The Arena. CNN Legal Analyst, Former Federal Prosecutor Elliot Williams, co-host of the Interview podcast from The New York Times, CNN Contributor Lulu Garcia-Navarro, former Communications Director at the DNC Xochitl Hinojosa, and Republican Strategist Shermichael Singleton. They are both CNN political commentators. Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.

Lulu, big picture. I mean, you have covered this region. You've obviously covered the President here in Washington now for many years. And Max Boot put it this way in a Washington Post opinion piece. The headline is, "Thankfully, it was TACO Tuesday," right?

We have in some ways gotten used to the tumultuousness that is Donald Trump as President of the United States. But there was something about this week start this past week, starting with Easter Sunday, that felt almost like we had reached a new degree of whatever this is that we are living through.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, whatever this is, we are living through. Indeed, those words are exactly right. Listen, I don't think we should become desensitized to what happened on Easter Sunday and the day after. The fact that we had the President of the United States use the language that he did, threatening the annihilation of an entire civilization, is something that I think we all have to kind of think about and grapple with, because what it indicates is that this is a President that is no longer in control of himself.

And it also has indicated this past week that no one around him is willing to step in to tell him that he has crossed a line. And I think that is what is so worrying. I think we are in uncharted waters at the moment. And this isn't a game. We are at war. And the person who is the commander-in-chief seems to have no constraints anymore, not moral, not intellectual, and certainly not emotional.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, you know, I understand the art of the deal and negotiating tactics and coming in harder and stronger than you intend to get your opponent to a different place. The President of the United States this week threatened war crimes. He threatened -- there was talk about water desalinization plants, which there could not possibly be a warfare purpose for that.

There was talk about bridges that may not have had a military purpose to them. And that is a new low for America. Yes, it perhaps got us to a point of negotiating with respect to the war, but this is not who we ought to be as Americans. And this whole idea that this is just a grand genius strategy by the President to compel his opponents into agreement is just not something that we ought to get -- that we ought to just accept outright and not get desensitized to.

HUNT: Shermichael, how do you see it?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, the administration is obviously arguing the President's statements are what permitted the regime to come to the table. There's some mixed bags in that regard. If you look at some of the reporting from New York Times, CNN, and even some of the international outlets, BBC, et cetera, we don't traditionally attack innocent people. That's just not what the United States is known for doing in conflict with war.

GARCIA-NAVARRO (?): Intentionally.

[12:05:10]

SINGLETON: Intentionally, yes. Accidents happen, of course, and even when those accidents occur, we do everything we can to try to make up for them. That said, though, Kasie, the bigger question to me for the administration is, have we put Iran in a stronger position than before this conflict began?

I would argue yes, because now all indications suggest that they actually do control the Strait of Hormuz, number one. Number two, I think another political question is, when we bring some resolution to this, are we in a stronger position? Is the Middle East in a safer position? Is China in a weaker position? Or are we at the same place that we were 37, 38 days ago now?

From the average American's perspective, I think that's what they're going to be weighing their options as they assess this overall, and I think most people are going to say, I don't really see what we've gained out of this, and that's sort of the political risk and perhaps even miscalculation from the administration's part that I think many Republicans who are running for office in November are saying, we didn't want this. We wanted to focus on the economy, on cost of living, on affordability, not conflicts in the Middle East.

HUNT: I feel like Xochitl's nodding along.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think we all are nodding along.

WILLIAMS: What kind of sorcery is this, Kasie Hunt? It produced (INAUDIBLE).

HINOJOSA: We are -- we don't always agree, but I think that's why we do agree, and we agree that affordability will be the thing that voters vote on, and right now things are not affordable, and he's only increasing prices. I think the fact that his comments on Sunday and the fact that we all were breathing a sigh of relief when he did not do that, when he didn't go through, and that he was able to find somewhat of an out is just a really low bar for America right now.

The fact that we are celebrating the fact that he did not wipe out an entire civilization, like, that is the low bar that this President has brought this country to. At the same time, he did not get really much anything out of it. There are -- throughout the week, there was some thought about, well, what does this ceasefire mean for Lebanon?

The fact that the President and his advisers just weren't able to negotiate a ceasefire with clear lines about who was involved in the ceasefire just shows that it was amateur hour for him and his team, and the right people and the experts are not actually experts, and they do not know how to negotiate. I mean, I think there's the fact that you're right, Iran is in a stronger position --

SINGLETON: Absolutely.

HINOJOSA: -- than they were before because the Strait is still closed. And then going back to Lulu's point on this, that there is no accountability of this President. He does feel that he can say whatever he wants, do whatever he wants, and there are no checks on him.

Congress is not going to do a damn thing to hold this President accountable. We have an administration who doesn't have any sort of inspector general, any sort of independence, whatsoever. There is nothing that will hold him accountable at this point. And I think a big question moving forward is what will it take for Congress to actually conduct oversight and to start asking some tough questions to hold the President accountable --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HINOJOSA: -- especially in a time of war.

WILLIAMS: I would say -- no, no.

HUNT: Last word.

WILLIAMS: The accountability point is a really big one too because -- and I want to stake on this war crimes thing for just a second. If the President of the United States actually did threaten or commit a war crime, there was no way to hold him accountable. The United States does not belong to the International --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

WILLIAMS: -- Criminal Court. He can't be prosecuted, as we saw from the Supreme Court last year, and Congress isn't going to impeach him. What would have happened? He's unaccountable, and this is --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And also what I'm hearing -- the word that I'm hearing from everyone --

WILLIAMS: -- it's just -- it's different. This is just different.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- is that they feel scared. They think that this is a scary time.

SINGLETON: But there's an election in November and we will see accountability if my party loses the House.

HUNT: All right, we're going to talk more about this coming up here in The Arena. We're also going to talk about a shocking statement from the First Lady, Melania Trump, bringing Jeffrey Epstein and his crimes back onto the front page.

But first, we'll discuss the sometimes religious language that President Trump uses about the war in Iran, and where some in MAGA think he crossed a line. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that God supports the United States' actions in this war?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do, because God is good --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you saw (ph) his direction?

D. TRUMP: -- because God is good, and God wants to see people taken care of. God doesn't like what's happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:14:01]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that God supports the United States' actions in this war?

D. TRUMP: I do, because God is good --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you saw (ph) his direction?

D. TRUMP: -- because God is good, and God wants to see people taken care of. God doesn't like what's happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That was President Trump earlier this week saying he believes that God is on his side. He and his administration have consistently used religious language when talking about the war with Iran. But on Easter morning, the President seemed to have crossed a line with at least some in the Republican Party, which brings us to our quote of the week.

On Sunday, Trump posted this, quote, "Open the fucking Strait." I've never said that on TV before. I've never really wanted to but, you know, it's the President of the United States. He goes on to call the Iranians crazy bastards, and he praised Allah.

And this is where we are. And you know what? I'm going to play straight out of this. What Tucker Carlson said in response to what we saw from the President at the beginning of this past week on Sunday, again, Easter Sunday, which is the holiest day, basically, in the Christian calendar. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:15:16]

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, THE TUCKER CARLSON SHOW: How dare you speak that way on Easter morning to the country? Who do you think you are? You're tweeting out the F word on Easter morning?

You'll be living in hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: OK. Who would like to start with this?

WILLIAMS: I think Shermichael. I hope (INAUDIBLE).

HUNT: I mean, it's just like, again -- and, you know, we touched on this at the top of the show, you know, Shermichael. We have been spending our time in Donald Trump's America with things, rhetoric, norms being broken, changing. The degree seems to have been cranked up this past week. And in many ways, this statement on Easter Sunday, given the timing, given what he said, is perhaps the best example we have of that.

SINGLETON: Yes, look, if I could be candid, most of the things the President typically posts on social media or states at press conferences, I will typically say, Kasie, like, this is hyperbolic rhetoric. The American people are generally used to it. That's what I would typically say.

But you look at the responses from not just people like Tucker Carlson, obviously the President recently attacked, but even Republicans who are still in Congress who do support the President on the record state. And this was just a step too far. This is not the type of language that we expect out of our commander in chief.

And even if it was to push the regime to the table, was there a more forceful way specifically targeting the regime versus the entirety of the country? And I think that's one of those blurred moral lines where a lot of people become uncomfortable when you look at a lot of MAGA voters and ask them, do you support this? And people say, look, I support the President, but I really do wish he would post a little less on Truth Social because of moments such as this.

WILLIAMS: You know, it's interesting since 2015 -- and Xochitl (ph) can speak to this too -- liberals have created an entire industry about outrage over Donald Trump.

SINGLETON: Yes.

WILLIAMS: The things he says, the responding to every single tweet, getting up in arms, this is the most apocalyptic thing ever. And now I'm pretty confident that war crimes are -- and this is the fourth time I've said it in the eight minutes we've been on air today. But this is just different.

This is just something that we have not seen from an American President with no real mechanism for accountability, with real global costs to the words that come out of the President's mouth. And when will even the President's supporters say enough is enough of this nonsense.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I do want to talk about the religious aspect of this, because I actually think it's important. What you're seeing is really interesting, because also there was reporting this week that the White House is in the feud with the Vatican, because obviously the Pope Leo is not very happy, as most popes aren't, with war and conflict, but has been much more, I think, explicit about what he perceives to be happening in this administration.

Apparently, there is some reporting around some direct contact between Vatican representatives and this White House. And so, I think there are a lot of fault lines, actually, on the religion front about this, because there's also the question of Israel. And that has really divided the right at this point. And you're seeing, again, the Tucker Carlsons of the world, the Megyn Kellys, really coming out against Israel.

And very much Candace Owens, just today -- a few days ago, came out very explicitly against Christian Zionists or Evangelical Christians that support Israel --

HUNT: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- because of their own biblical beliefs. And so what I'm trying to say here is that it isn't just, you know, Trump bad, look what he did on Easter Sunday, this is really cracking the coalition that supported him and pushed him into office in 2024. And that is going have ramifications, I think, pretty serious ones for the Republican Party.

HUNT: Yes, it's interesting. And, I mean, to your point, Lulu, the Pope actually posted on Friday this week this, quote, "God does not bless any conflict. Anyone who is a disciple of Christ, the prince of peace, is never on the side of those who once wielded the sword and today drop bombs."

And I mean, Xochitl, this is a President who's essentially said that his -- I mean, he's clearly like an Old Testament guy versus a New Testament guy. He says his favorite Bible verse is an eye for an eye, right? Which is not the prince of peace version, but pretty noteworthy that the Pope would come out and say this publicly.

HINOJOSA: It is noteworthy. And as we talk about, as we head into the midterms and talk about some of this rhetoric, you saw a lot of people were just sick of it in 2020. And that is why Donald Trump lost. And Joe Biden really leaned into his face and faith and there was a lot of fault.

[12:20:03]

So we can talk about Joe Biden and his presidency, all of that stuff. But he did bring some normalcy, and that's why people voted for him. One thing -- and a place that Trump and Republicans have done well, especially in the last election was with Latinos.

And many Latinos are voted for him because of their faith, because of values, because they're Catholics that go to church every day. And those -- their values felt like they aligned with the Republican Party. And that is why you saw Republicans pick up Latinos across the country, and Democrats did not do well with them.

You are starting to see that key electorate move towards Democrats in key states. And I have to imagine that if this rhetoric continues, and especially if you are getting at the values of many, you know, Latino voters and others who are staunch, you know, Catholics and go to church every Sunday, they are not going to put up with this and vote for the Republican Party.

Trump is on the ballot, but they do not like what they're seeing about Trump. And they do not like that Republicans are not speaking out against them.

HUNT: Well, here is one Republican who spoke out against the President this week, and that's Marjorie Taylor Greene, who the President has also been freely criticizing. Let's be clear, you know, she's obviously exiting or has exited Congress. Here's what she said about the President's posts, about wiping out an entire civilization and how it relates to Christianity. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R), FORMER GEORGIA CONGRESSWOMAN: Any Christian serving in Congress or serving in the Senate and serving in the administration really needs to take pause and ask themselves, as a Christian, do you really support the President calling for the annihilation, calling to wipe out an entire civilization of people? And I don't think you should, because that's not what Jesus said, and that's not what Christianity is all about. It's not about aligning ourselves with right or left or Democrat or Republican, it's about being honest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Pretty remarkable, Lulu.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes.

HUNT: Your thought (ph).

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And again, it's being echoed across a part of the MAGAsphere where they're really invoking what does it mean to be a Christian. And let's face it, whatever Donald Trump is or is not, a sort of hallmark card of Christianity is not one of the things that I would say he is most well known for.

SINGLETON: But Kasie --

HUNT: Not a hallmark card for Christianity. Last word.

SINGLETON: Just really quickly, I'll just say there is a moral question, I think, for the most powerful country in the world to bring freedom and peace to the people in Iran. For 47 years, the atrocities against them have been despicable. We should do something about that.

HUNT: Yes, that argument is like the only one that we haven't actually heard Republicans in power actually make, because that was what we tried to do in Iraq, and it didn't go well.

All right, coming up next here in The Arena, the history-making moment that happened four years ago and how it's impacting Donald Trump's second term as President. But first, the shocking statement from First Lady Melania Trump this week that's got everyone talking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I am not Epstein's victim. Epstein did not introduce me to Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:27:35]

M. TRUMP: I never had a relationship with Epstein or his accomplice, Maxwell. My email reply to Maxwell cannot be categorized as anything more than casual correspondence.

I am not Epstein's victim. Epstein did not introduce me to Donald Trump. I have never had any knowledge of Epstein's abuse of his victims. I was never involved in any capacity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: First Lady Melania Trump's stunning surprise statement in which she denied any past links to Jeffrey Epstein and called for Epstein's victims to testify before Congress had all of Washington scratching their heads this week, wondering, where'd this come from?

This was how our Stephen Collinson put it, quote, "With the war- dominated conversation in Washington, why did a First Lady who prizes privacy and is known for an independent streak from her husband feel compelled to make what would inevitably be an explosive statement now?"

Perhaps the First Lady simply wanted to make the Epstein saga, which has dogged her husband's administration in recent months, go away. But as Collinson continues, quote, "The speech will almost certainly have the opposite effect. Its implications will go far beyond the issue, since she chose a moment of huge political vulnerability for her husband to go public."

The First Lady's senior adviser explaining it this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC BECKMAN, SENIOR ADVISER TO MELANIA TRUMP: Enough is enough. This has been ongoing and it's time for the public to refocus their attention on what achievements our First Lady has done. She's helping people over and over again.

We want to focus the attention on her good work and what she's accomplished as first lady of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So this, of course, you know, exploded at the end of the week onto a scene, Elliot --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HUNT: -- that was previously entirely focused on what we've been talking about so far, the --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HUNT: -- the war in Iran. I mean, the sort of peanut gallery on the Internet had suggested the whole reason for starting the war in Iran was to get Epstein off the front pages. Obviously, again, peanut gallery on the Internet. I'm not saying that that's --

WILLIAMS: Of course, no --

HUNT: -- reported. However, there certainly have been many a Republican or someone tied to Epstein that's been very happy to see it fade. What are the implications of her doing this now?

WILLIAMS: And that's the thing, and it's Stephen Collinson's article that you pointed out, said this is a moment of huge political vulnerability for the President that just injected another major political vulnerability back for the President. This is probably the last thing they want to be talking about.

Now, what's remarkable here is the First Lady's advisor there saying enough is enough. Now, trafficking victims, survivors, sex assault victims are probably the one constituency in America that no one has an appetite for saying enough is enough around their handling. And so the idea that they thought this was a good idea to send him out there to try to clear the First Lady's name is even compounding the issue even worse. So this is not going away, whether it's a legal problem for them, you know, probably not. Congress isn't going to do much more, I think, right now on this issue. But it's still a mess for them and has done nothing to protect or clear the names of the survivors.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's a public relations disaster in the sense that this had kind of faded from the headlines. Melania Trump wasn't at the center of this anyway, in the sense that, yes, obviously there's questions about anyone who was photographed with Epstein or had, you know, connections through her husband to Epstein, et cetera. But she wasn't at the center of some grand conspiracy about the Epstein affair. Now that's all anyone's talking about. So I am baffled by this entire sequence of events.

WILLIAMS: And just think about stepping out and unprompted saying the words, I am not connected to Jeffrey Epstein is probably the one thing you could say to make a skeptical public say, wait a second, were you connected to Jeffrey Epstein? Do we actually think that after these comments, do we have less faith or less knowledge of her having, of the nature of their relationship? XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think we can all agree we would give them an F in crisis communications. What is interesting here is that it was Pam Bondi who was at the center of Epstein. They -- there was stories this week about how she was no longer going to testify. The pressure was on Pam Bondi, who Donald Trump fired. He -- now there are questions about whether she is going to have to sit for a deposition in the future. Will the attorney general have to sit for a deposition?

It -- the -- Donald Trump and Melania Trump were not currently to this at this week, not the center of that. If there is, and I hate speculating, but the only thing that as a crisis communications person you can think of is you're trying to get ahead of something. Now, if you're trying to get ahead of something like a story or a book or something of shoe is going to drop that is going to be pretty bad for Melania Trump, you have now just given that story even more oxygen and you have given that story even more credibility as the First Lady is coming out and saying something --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, everyone's digging now. Everyone is digging now. Everyone is digging.

HINOJOSA: And maybe this, they thought that maybe this would be seen like as a threat, like if, you know, if you were to -- if there was a false allegation out there, we'll go ahead and come after you the way that we have come after everybody else. But they've just given whatever story comes out even more credibility.

HUNT: I mean, Shermichael?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, I think the administration I thought was doing a rather decent job trying to distance the President from Pam Bondi. There was some questions on if they were going to allow her to testify. If they were not going to allow her to testify, I think they sort of settled with, well, she's not working for the administration any longer.

HINOJOSA: We'll she's currently employed. Now she's employed.

SINGLETON: OK. Well, that was some of the statements that I saw from some officials. That said, if I were advising on this, I don't think Xochitl, I would have advised the First Lady to get out there and opine on this. Now, I will applaud her for speaking --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Shermichael has become a Democrat.

WILLIAMS: I know.

SINGLETON: No, no, no.

HUNT: Well, and here's -- hold on, let me jump in.

SINGLETON: I'm just a strategist that knows my job well.

HUNT: Because one big question that I had when this, and I think a lot of people did when this happened, is whether the President was aware of, had signed off on what the -- what she was going to do. And CNN talked to a person familiar with the matter who said, yes, like he was aware. But then Jackie Alemany, a reporter with "MS Now," put this on the platform X, just got off a quick call with President Trump who said he didn't know anything about FLOTUS' statement prior to her on- camera appearance. She didn't know him, he added, before hanging up, referring to Epstein.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, I just -- that is completely ridiculous because of the way the White House works, right? Like you -- you've got to set up the lights. You've got to call the press. There's like a lot of stuff that happens to get the First Lady to come and give an address like that. And the idea that, I don't know what -- I had no idea about it, that the President of the United States was kind of like not aware of that.

SINGLETON: The President really has for months been trying to bury this for a long time now. And I think his advisors certainly don't want to deal with this in the midst of what's going on with Iran, rising oil prices, the cost of living issue with the summer weeks before us. I just think they wanted to get away from this. And in my opinion to what you were saying, so you're just doing this for as long as you have, there are going to be a lot of journalists who are going to be digging into old stories, looking through old photos. And so if you're working for the President directly, I can only imagine his ire.

[12:35:07]

WILLIAMS: Just think about just everybody who's been in the White House. Just think about the real estate in particular that that press conference. It is inconceivable that the White House press operation did not, just based on where it happened in the building and all the apparatus and infrastructure to make that happen, that they didn't know what was coming.

HUNT: It was where the President had stood just days, you know, days before to talk about literally the war that he was sending us into.

All right, ahead here in The Arena, the moment four years ago this week that made history at the Supreme Court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Our children are telling me that they see now more than ever that here in America, anything is possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:30]

KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On this vote, the yeas are 53, the nays are 47, and this nomination is confirmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Four years ago this week, the Senate voted to make Ketanji Brown Jackson Supreme Court Justice. Ketanji Brown Jackson, she's the first and only Supreme Court pick for then President Joe Biden. It was after the retirement of Stephen Breyer. She was also the first and only black woman nominated and confirmed to the high court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: It has taken 232 years and 115 prior appointments for a black woman to be selected to serve on the Supreme Court of the United States. But we've made it. We've made it all of us, all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Jackson has become an outspoken, if not the most outspoken, member of the court's liberal wing. The SCOTUS blog posing this question last fall, "Is Ketanji Brown Jackson the great dissenter of the Roberts court?" How many lifetimes ago was this event? Because it was only four years, but it feels like a lot longer than that, Xochitl.

HINOJOSA: It does feel a lot longer. And I actually was one of the people to help moot her and when she was preparing for all of this. And I remember sitting in that room there and thinking to myself, wow, we are lucky to have her. She is brilliant. She is someone who knows her facts. She is, you know, has studied. She's exactly the type of person you want in the court.

But so much has happened since then. I mean, just look at the video that they -- we just showed. I mean, the fact that we, you know, we looking back that she would have had to be in there for the immunity decision, which is essentially taken the presidency to another level. And we have seen sort of Trump take advantage of that.

There have been such consequential decisions. And she has had a critical role in the court in terms of speaking out. And so my hope is that she continues to do that. But you will always see her as someone who is looking at the law and making those decisions, not based on partisanship, but as like some of the other justices, but based on exactly what the law says.

WILLIAMS: Well, look, she is unabashedly a member of the liberal wing of the court. And that's OK. Since time immemorial, justices have come from the right and the left and come out in different places. William Rehnquist was where he was. Clarence Thomas is where he is. What I will say, though, and this is to your point about her brilliance, and I was alluding to this when we were chatting privately before the show. There is no doubt, and there ought to be no doubt for anyone that Katanji Brown Jackson is perhaps the most qualified person to sit on the Supreme Court or to be nominated.

I want to just run down, starting in high school, she was high school debate champion, class president of her high school, Harvard Law, Harvard Law Review, district court judge, federal appeals court judge. No other Supreme Court justice has that kind of resume. And if you type in the words Katanji Brown Jackson, DEI, on the internet --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I was about to say.

WILLIAMS: She's a DEI. How could she possibly have the chops to serve in this role? And this is where we are. And it's quite frankly, and Shermichael, maybe you can speak to this too. There is a class of black person in America that can never shake that. And she's an example of it. But her resume adjusts for every possible variable. And yet she is still faces that kind of nonsense.

SINGLETON: Yes. I mean, look, I certainly don't agree with a lot of her dissents philosophically speaking. But I do actually spend the time to read them because I'm always curious how she's interpreting the constitution and history broadly speaking.

I will say though, Kasie, I did not like how President Biden put that sort of, I'm going to nominate a black woman thing. I just didn't like that growing up in the South. I grew up listening to so many stories from my grandparents trying to get away from that. Just -- we're just good because we're people who are qualified, who are intelligent, not merely because we're black.

And then obviously you put in politics and you're going to have a lot of people to the extreme taking that DEI affirmative action, which I certainly don't agree with. But that is something that plagues her. And I hate that that plagues her because even though I philosophically disagree with her, I can't take away from her intellectual faculties and her abilities.

WILLIAMS: And here's the question I pose not just to you, but to America that had Joe Biden not said, I'm going to nominate a black woman and still nominated to Ketanji Brown Jackson, would she have been somehow immune from being called a DEI hire for the rest of her life? And the answer is unequivocal, no, no, no. She would have still faced that stuff.

[12:45:09]

And I think, yes, I mean, I understand the argument that President Biden said he's going to put a black woman on the court. And he did. Therefore, people took from that, that somehow she got some kind of benefit for being on the court. But just, you know, that I think that's a -- it's a distraction and a misleading point from the reality of what she can do.

SINGLETON: But just quickly --

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: But we have to get away from -- we do at some point have to get away from this notion that blackness should be all-encompassing. And to me, I think that we have all the skills as our white counterparts, as our Asian counterparts to be just as qualified. And I don't like the idea of people placing this moniker over our heads. Well, I got to have a black person. I got to make, no, no, we're just as good. Hire us because we're just as good for the job not because we're black.

HINOJOSA: I completely agree on this. But I will say that communities do feel like they're not represented, whether that is in Congress, whether that is at the White House, whether that is in the Supreme Court. And you do have people from the community who say, we want to see this. We want to see ourselves represented. And so I do value people taking that into consideration. But I hear your point. It shouldn't be.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next here, something totally different and truly out of this world.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:51:05]

JEREMY HANSEN, ASTRONAUT: And we have seen just some extraordinary things. You know, our purpose on the planet as humans is to find joy, to find the joy in lifting each other up by creating solutions together instead of destroying.

VICTOR GLOVER, ASTRONAUT: There's nothing that we can't accomplish when we pull all of our differences together, not in spite of them, but when we pull them together and we work on something big for the good of everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Just such powerful reflections from astronauts Victor Glover and Jeremy Hansen after the Artemis II crew broke Apollo 13's record for the farthest that humans have traveled into space. The images from this mission, I mean, they are just so incredible. I can't imagine that you have missed them. But we just wanted to take a second to reflect on them today. And normally this segment is called, I'm sorry, what? But I mean, look, I'm sorry. Wow. It's amazing. I mean, look at this view as they traveled farther and farther and farther away from the Earth to a place that no human has been before. And of course, the far side of the Moon, we got to look at it.

And once they got there, the crew had this incredible view of the Moon's surface. They saw a special solar eclipse and they discovered new craters, one of which they named after the Artemis II commander, Reid Wiseman. It's after his late wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we lost a loved one. Her name was Carroll, the spouse of Reid, the mother of Katie and Ellie. And if you want to find this one, you look at Gloucester. And it's just to the northwest of that at the same latitude as home. And it's a bright spot on the Moon. And we would like to call it Carroll.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, I still can't even watch this without tearing up. Carroll Wiseman was a nurse at a newborn ICU. She died in 2020 after a battle with cancer. The crew was seen wiping away tears and embracing after, excuse me, that emotional dedication. I mean, I don't know, Lulu, I feel like I needed this, to be able to see this, like our country needed this.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, everyone needed it. I mean, this is why it's so important to have these moments to look up into the heavens and see the best of our humanity, sending the best on this mission and then having them reflect back to us what we can be.

You know, I sat there with my daughter and we were riveted watching it. And then their words are like a bomb because we are riven with division. We are always arguing. And yet, look what we can achieve when we put our minds to it.

WILLIAMS: And even and astronauts often say this when they look at that image, the folks who've gone to the moon before. And you see the image of the Earth off in the distance. You realize all the things we fight about day to day, really what we regard as big consequential problems, the petafog of daily existence on this planet. But it's all meaningless, right? And I don't mean that to diminish anything that happens on the planet, but it's one small little orb in this vast blackness. And it's a beautiful thing for folks to go out and just gain a different type of perspective about what really is important and why we're all here.

HINOJOSA: Yes, we haven't seen pictures like this before. And I think that's the other thing. The fact that now we can tell our kids and show our kids exactly these photos that have never been uncovered before. And the detail in a lot of them is just magnificent. And my son was like, wait a minute. Does this mean that we can start going to the Moon? So it is. I was like, well, you know, that it's --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Beating me up. I'm a Trekkie. I can't wait to be able to travel.

WILLIAMS: I'm a "Star Wars" person. That's no moon.

[12:55:00]

HUNT: It's not a space station.

WILLIAMS: Oh, it is a Moon. That is a moon.

HUNT: That is the actual moon. It's not a space station. It's amazing. And I have to say, you know, whenever I, you know, I'm looking for a little bit of peace in my life, anything that can make you feel just how small you are in this universe that we live in. It really helps you understand the perspectives, the problems and the things that we deal with every day. So our thanks to the incredible team, not just the astronauts up there, but all of the hundreds, if not thousands of people that had to do so much work to get them up there and home safely. Thanks to my panel. Thanks to all of you for watching at home as well. Don't forget, you can see The Arena every weekday right here on CNN at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. You can also catch up by listening to our podcast. You can follow the show on X and Instagram at TheArenaCNN. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. The news continues, next.

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