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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Now: U.S. Navy Blocking Iran's Ports After Peace Talks Stall; Trump: Iranian Ships That Get Near Blockade Will Be "Eliminated"; Trump Says He Thought Post Depicting Him As Jesus Was "Me As A Doctor"; House Ethics Committee Opens Investigation Into Rep. Swalwell. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 13, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We may need some of those chimps in the oncoming battle with the robots.
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: We might. Yeah, let's -- you know what? Let's put the chimps up against the robots.
SANCHEZ: That'd be interesting to see.
HILL: It would be.
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
HILL: Wow. Well, maybe that's tomorrow. There's only one way to find out. You'll have to join us.
Until then --
SANCHEZ: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Monday.
As we come on the air, President Trump says the United States navy is enforcing a blockade on Iranian ports located in the Persian Gulf and the vital strait of Hormuz as he tries to force Tehran to accept his demands
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now, we have a blockade. They're doing no business. I didn't like seeing boats come out. If they were doing business with Iran, but if they weren't, no boats came out. So, now, they're doing -- Iran is doing absolutely no business and we're going to keep it that way very easily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The naval blockade began at 10:00 a.m. this morning when the president threatened, quote, "Iran's navy is laying at the bottom of the sea, completely obliterated 158 ships. What we have not hit are their small number of what they call fast attack ships, because we did not consider them much of a threat." Warning. "If any of these ships come anywhere close to our blockade, they will be immediately eliminated," end quote.
This all comes just days after negotiations between the U.S. and Iran stalled out. After 21 hours of talks led by Vice President J.D. Vance
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The bad news is that we have not reached an agreement, and I think that's bad news for Iran, much more than it's bad news for the United States of America. So, we go back to the United States having not come to an agreement. We leave here with a very simple proposal, a method of understanding that is our final and best offer. We'll see if the Iranians accept it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: This afternoon, President Trump said Vance has done a good job with the talks and claimed that Iran reached out today desperate for a deal. But right now, global shipping is still disrupted. Oil prices are still rising, and the clock is ticking on a shaky ceasefire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, as far as the naval blockade is concerned, what's the end game? Is it the force Iran back to the negotiating table? Is it to open up the straits so that gas prices ultimately come down?
TRUMP: Maybe everything. I mean, both of those things, certainly, and more. We've been called this morning by the right people, the appropriate people, and they want to work a deal.
REPORTER: Does your threat from before still stand?
TRUMP: Yeah, I don't want to comment on that, but it won't be pleasant for them. Let me put it that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.
We are also joined by CNNs senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, always good to see you. What are we now learning about what could be another potential meeting between the U.S. and Iranian officials?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, this is very preliminary, but it does go to bolster our reporting that there are still lines of communication open between the United States and Iran through intermediaries. And what we're learning is that inside the White House, there have become -- there have been conversations about whether or not and how to set up quickly a second round of talks, should the opportunity present itself.
Now, it's unclear whether or not this is actually going to materialize, but again, it shows that there is ongoing communication.
Now, this is all inside the White House. This is giving them the ability to set something up quickly. Talking about where regional partners could go, what locations to go, dates that would work. We also heard from a regional source who said that right now, Turkey is helping with some of the negotiations and these potential for a second round of talks. They're trying to kind of square the difference between the U.S. and Iran.
So, all of this is happening behind the scenes. Unclear again, if they're actually going to get there. But of course, we know that this White House, this administration has been looking for an off ramp wherever they can find one. And they were really hoping that these talks originally, of course, before they fell apart, were going to be that off ramp. Clearly, here, the door is still open to some kind of negotiation.
HUNT: All right. Kristen Holmes for us at the White House -- Kristen, thank you very much for that report.
My panel is here in THE ARENA, CNN political analyst, investigative reporter at "The New York Times", David Fahrenthold; CNN contributor, "New York Times" journalist, Lulu Garcia-Navarro; former DNC communications director Mo Elleithee; and CNN senior political commentator, former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you for being here.
David Urban, it's been a little bit of a tough period for J.D. Vance in particular, but also this entire effort. I mean, clearly, as Kristen's reporting there, the White House is looking for an off ramp, but they have not seemed to been able to find one that's satisfactory. What would you be doing right now if you were advising them?
[16:05:00]
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, listen, I think the administration is doing probably the right things here, trying to choke out any possible, you know, income that the Iranian regime is getting or was getting prior to this. They were letting ships transit in and out, and the threat of further force still looms large. So, you know, it's a carrot and stick approach. Whether it work is yet to be seen. Obviously, the theocracy that remains in power doesn't seem to be too concerned with -- with whether or not they, you know, kill -- they're responsible for the deaths of some of their citizens.
They don't care about that. And so, it's tough when you're trying to negotiate with a regime that doesn't care about their people. So, they're doing, you know, I think the -- you know, we will bring you to the table. We're going to try to open up normal relations, but we want you to get rid of your nuclear capability, get rid of your long-range launch capability, open up the straits of Hormuz. I'm not quite sure the Iranians want to do it that same way. And
they're completely on two different timetables. The administration was done quickly. And the Iranians, like the JCOP, took 18 months to negotiate. So, it is a, you know, pulling a rabbit out of a hat times like three or four here.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes, the JCOP, if only we had stayed with the JCOP and now we're negotiating a JCOP part two. We're also negotiating to open the straits, which used to be open -- was am I right about this? Before this conflict on February 28th?
So, we're actually trying to like back to the future it I think is what --
URBAN: Without -- without nuclear weapons? Small, small caveats.
HUNT: I mean, I think there's still this big question, right? I mean, if the original operation to bomb the nuclear program worked the way that they claimed it had, then why this was necessary now? Also unclear.
David Fahrenthold, I want to play for you a moment that played out at the White House today because of course, one of the features of this going conflict is its effect on prices, starting with oil prices, which, of course, has affected the entire economy, which we saw from the inflation numbers. You may remember -- I mean, this made me flash back to the end of the campaign in 2024, when the president was running against Joe Biden on economic issues.
And frankly, the campaign had a couple of good moments. There was a garbage truck. The president went to McDonald's. They resurrected some, let's just say it had some echoes, I would say, at the White House today.
But just -- just watch. We'll talk about how the moment played out on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOORDASH GRANDMA: Nice to meet you. I have your DoorDash order for you, Mr. President.
TRUMP: Look at this. This doesn't look staged, does it?
DOORDASH GRANDMA: They're all your favorites.
TRUMP: The reason for this is the fact that I heard you picked up an extra $11,000 that you didn't think because the tax bill was so big.
DOORDASH GRANDMA: I'm here about the tax on tips.
REPORTER: Are the White House good tippers? Do you know?
TRUMP: Wait
DOORDASH GRANDMA: Potentially. Yes. Very. REPORTER: Mr. President, can I ask you something?
TRUMP: Thank you. You reminded me
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: Thank you. You reminded me, he says, when is there's a woman there talking? No tax on tips. It's a policy he made. And yet they still needed to tip her.
David Fahrenthold, pretty telling. Yes. Staged. If you couldn't see under the banner. Those are McDonald's bags, the president's favorite.
But clearly, there's a reason why they feel like they need to do things like that right now.
DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's what's so striking about this is that is a really popular policy. No tax on tips. It was popular in 2024. It's one of the things that Trump said then that people that he followed through on in some form, and people are really happy with, Democrats are jealous of it, trying to have their own find a way to attach themselves to this.
But, you know, in general, we are not talking about that. We're not talking about that policy because of what's happening in Iran that's subsumed everything else. So, this moment that could have been a reminder of something that Trump did, that people generally like has been lost. And in the questions about Iran, the pope, so many other things.
HUNT: I mean, Mo, isn't that really kind of -- if you're a Democrat, run for Congress, like --
MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I mean, how quickly is that tip he gave her? Will that tip ever get spent on increased prices at the gas pump?
URBAN: It was 100 bucks. So, I think you got a little bit of time.
ELLEITHEE: And for everyone else who's not that woman who are looking at the cost of gas because of the president's war, you know, I don't think that's going to give him the juice that they hope it gives them.
FAHRENTHOLD: One thing, Kasie, one of the things that made those garbage truck moments, the McDonald's moments, powerful in the campaign was it showed Trump caring about the regular people, people who drive for drivers, people who work at McDonald's. And that is such a contrast to what he's been saying recently about gas prices, which basically is like, you guys have to suck it up, pay more.
HUNT: Oh, let's watch that, because he actually said that to Maria Bartiromo over the weekend. The president did that. Your gas prices are going to get higher before you have to pick who -- you know, which party you're going to vote for when you go to the polls in November and the midterms. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS HOST: Do you believe the price of oil and gas will be lower before the midterm elections?
TRUMP (via telephone): I hope so, I mean, I think so. It could be. It could be or the same or maybe a little bit higher, but it should be around the same.
[16:10:00]
I think this won't be that much longer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The same or a little bit higher, David Urban.
URBAN: So, I wish Donald Trump, you know, this kind of reminds me of George Bush and, you know, just go shopping after 9/11. Just go shopping. Everybody go to the mall, right? Instead of saying, listen, we're going to be, we're going to have to suffer a little bit here for -- for what we're going to do for our country.
I wish the president early on would have laid out an agenda than saying, look, we're going to do this in Iran because were trying to prevent this country, this theocracy, this this lunatic fringe country from having nuclear weapons that can someday threaten your children and grandchildren.
So, we're going to do -- we're going to tighten our belts. We're going to go at them for a while. We're going to try to do the best. We may mow the lawn. We may be successful, may not.
That may -- that may require you to pay a little bit more. I think if you sold that up, people would be willing -- they'd be willing to sacrifice for greater outcome, even if it didn't occur, even if we were where we are today, said we tried to do this and you didn't succeed, I think it'd be laid out in the first place. You'd be in a much better place than you are now. Try to backfill.
ELLEITHEE: Instead. What they're seeing is that they are worse off. They are worse off today because they're paying more at the pump. They are worse off today because you see, the Iranians are proving to be far more resilient, far more resilient than this administration anticipated.
They always say we're doing the things that no other president was able to do. Well, there's a reason why no other president did this, because they knew that the Iranians play on a different timetable, a different frame of reference, and that they hold a lot of cards that we just can't --
URBAN: But I would just say just because its hard doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, right? I mean, I think that there's but --
ELLEITHEE: But what are we trying to do?
URBAN: I agree, I agree, Mo, this is what I'm saying. My point would be, sell it upfront, right? To your point, these are the people that invented chess, right? This is the country that gave us chess, right? So they're pretty -- they're pretty good at strategy, right?
HUNT: So, I'm going to steal that in the future.
URBAN: Lay it out upfront. Right. Lay it upfront. Make the case to the American people that this is what we're going to do.
And then I think people would be willing to accept a little bit more pain because they know there's a greater good that my grandchildren are going to have to worry about a nuclear weapon being exploded in Times Square or some place.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I know, but how much pain the American people expected to endure? We -- you know, we started --
URBAN: Look at World War II.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, but let me -- let me -- let me finish. You know, we've started this administration with first being told you can't have dolls, you can't have pencils because we're actually going to wage this economic, you know, idea that basically means a tax on consumption. So, prices went up to begin with.
And now, you're being told, no, actually, you've got to suffer at the pump because of the war in Iran. I mean, it's just one thing after another which leads everyone farther away from the central promise of the Trump administration, which is prices are going to come down. I care about your pocketbook. And that's --
URBAN: To David's point. Those are the salient points at the end of that campaign, right? The McDonald's, the truck, the, you know, the no tax on tips. I feel your pain. Joe Biden doesn't feel your pain. Were going to make things better. And things have not gotten materially better.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And he's building a ballroom, so it's all good.
URBAN: Good.
HUNT: Ballroom, which you can really see from the sky, actually, when I was on a plane this weekend, I had not seen it.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: They saw it from the space station.
HUNT: Really remarkable.
I want to play. And this of course, we're talking here quite a bit about the politics. And there is the policy questions about how to handle what comes next. This is a blockade. This isn't invading Kharg Island or putting boots on the ground at this point.
But I want to play at what John Bolton, who was once national security advisor to Donald Trump, had to say about this blockade because I think it's also an important part of the political conversation. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: And a blockade makes sense. You don't have to attack Kharg Island. I don't -- I don't think that was ever realistic. The point is, no Iran -- if no Gulf Arab oil gets out, no Iranian oil gets out. Let's see how they feel about that in Tehran
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: David Urban, I find his approval him saying, you know, go on this policy noteworthy because its everything that America first and that wing of MAGA rejected.
URBAN: Yeah. Again, you know, not being involved in foreign wars, this is the -- this is the tug, right, with J.D. Vance. And so many of the supporters with Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly and, you know, on and on and on.
There was -- this is the president that said there was famously J.D. Vance saying, you know, if you don't want to be involved in Iran, vote for it -- vote for us. Right? And here we are.
But again, at the same time, you know, this president decided at some point in time that it was that the, you know, the no -- that no nukes in Iran was a -- was a bigger priority. And you go back and look at Donald Trump, there's one thing that's consistent, whether it's, you know, you go back to 2007, some of his earlier statements in the way, way back machine, Trump saying exactly what he's saying now, we can't allow Iran to a nuclear weapon.
And so, it's -- you know, it's a tension here that the president clearly decided was worthwhile. And, you know, it's his choice.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think the tension is that MAGA is whatever Trump says it is. And so therefore, now it's like, go war, go.
[16:15:03]
And he has --
URBAN: But not -- but not really.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, but he's -- but he's taken in a lot of, you know, former people who oppose him, who are sort of the neocon wing of the party and, you know, God love John Bolton. I know he's been everywhere, but I don't know that he's very credible on this.
But the other side of this is the America first people, and that is a nascent movement that is not MAGA and is not pro-Trump, and is saying that actually he has lost his way.
URBAN: Well, yeah, there's a -- there's a great deal of folks that believe that we should not get involved in any of these things. Right. We don't care. Too far away.
HUNT: Yeah. Well, and that was a big -- it was a big part of the campaign.
All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell is now facing potential expulsion from Congress as the House Ethics Committee opens an investigation into accusations that he engaged in sexual misconduct, including rape, allegations that Swalwell denies.
Plus, what do you see when you look at this A.I. image that President Donald Trump shared of himself? The white robe, the red cloak, the golden aura that divine healing touch -- I mean, if it's not Jesus -- it's Jesus, right?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better. And I do make people better. I make people a lot better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:48]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It wasn't a picture. It was me -- I did post it and I thought it was me as the doctor and had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And, only the fake news could come up with that one. So I had -- I just heard about it and I said, how did they come up with that? It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So that was President Trump explaining why he posted this A.I. generated photo. Okay, doctor? Jesus Christ? Both the same -- I -- you decide. Okay?
This post has since been deleted. It was posted after the President attacked Pope Leo in a long Truth Social post where he said that the pope was, quote, "weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy." That he doesn't, quote, "want a pope who criticizes the president of the United States," end quote, and said that Pope Leo should, quote, "get his act together."
He doubled down when asked about it on his way back to the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's a very liberal person, and he's a man that doesn't believe in stopping crime. He's a man that doesn't think that we should be toying with a country that wants a nuclear weapon so they can blow up the world. I'm not I'm not a fan of Pope Leo.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, this morning, the American Pope Leo responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV, CATHOLIC CHURCH: I have no fear of the Trump administration nor speaking out loudly about the message of the gospel, which is what I believe. I am called to do what the church is called to do. We're not politicians. We don't deal with foreign policy with the same perspective that he might understand it, but I do believe that the message of the gospel, as a peacemaker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I do believe in the message of the gospel as a peacemaker, he says.
David Fahrenthold, part of this, you know, this is posted, right? And then it's deleted. Okay? This from a president who very rarely wishes to be seen backing down, right? Backs down on this.
This was a conservative supporter of the president, Riley Gaines, who posted this criticizing.
And this is just one example of a number of these types of criticisms coming from inside Trump's own house, saying, "Why? Seriously? Can't understand why he posts this. Is he looking for a response? Either way, two things are true. A little humility would serve him well, and two, God shall not be mocked" because -- I mean, look, we were talking about this and we've been covering this from a secular perspective, but from a religious perspective, there are a lot of problems with that. Okay?
FAHRENTHOLD: Well, Kasie, I just want to start off by saying that like, this looks a lot like my typical doctor visit. Okay? The military is usually there and there's a glowing orb in one hand and he puts it on. That's what happens. Like my physical every year we take my blood pressure and then this all happens. So, I don't know why people are so offended.
Seriously, I think this is -- Trump has posted a lot of things that sort of play with his role as like a messiah or a king or somebody. Remember the No Kings thing where he was like, he put a crown on his head and flew over the crowd. This is sort of a religious step beyond that.
He loves to sort of do this kind of thing of like, look at how Trump derangement people think, I'm serious about this. This is the first time, though, that he's crossed over --
HUNT: The Christians think he's pretty serious about this.
FAHRENTHOLD: Into -- into something he doesn't really understand, I don't think. And the sort of the way people have responded to this, I think surprised them. And you're right, he backed down in a way that he almost never backed down.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's blasphemous. I mean, like, I mean, there's a word for it actually, if you are Christian, which I am, and Catholic by the way. So, it's been a good, good 24 hours.
But it's blasphemous. It's, you know, you do not ever make yourself into the image of God. Obviously, a mortal man is not the son of God, Jesus Christ. And it is blasphemous to, to do that. And so, it's deeply offensive. Not to mention its deeply offensive to the many, many growing Catholic community in the United States.
It's -- you know, we're having a good, a good couple of years. Pope Leo has actually been good for the church in the United States, where there's a lot of Catholics now joining the faith.
[16:25:00]
And so, I think this is absolutely, you know, terrible for him, especially as someone who gets so much support from the religious community.
FAHRENTHOLD: Yeah --
HUNT: Yeah, go ahead.
URBAN: I was just going to say, look, as a Catholic, Christian altar boy, right? All those things growing up as a kid, it's offensive. It's patently offensive.
Look, do I agree with everything the pope says? No. On politics policy, not 20 -- it's just bad politics. You know, politics is about addition, not subtraction. Right? So one plus one. We don't need to lose people.
As Lulu points out,. the Catholic Church is growing by leaps and bounds, primarily by young people right now. And there's story after story. You can Google it. It's Catholic Church is blowing up in America.
So, why would this president go out of his way to alienate those young voters, right? As amongst the 20 percent of Catholics in America who vote are large voting bloc.
I can tell you that 20 percent of Americans are Catholic who vote 100 percent like this pope because he's an American and he wears a Cubbies hat, eats hot dogs, and he's nice, to -- he's nice to kids. He's a -- he's the first American pope ever. He's the pope. Right.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, for Catholics, it's not -- it's not a choice to support the pope. It's not like, you know what? Some days I like him. Some days I don't.
URBAN: And basically --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: He's the pope. URBAN: By the way, by the way -- and the pope on dogma, on like peace, love and understanding. Like that's his job. That's his number one job description. It's like I'm the guy who's supposed to say like, turn the other cheek.
That is his -- that is his role in the world. You don't have to agree with him on everything, but that's his job. He's the most dogmatic person in the planet on those things.
And so, the president for the president take a poke at him. I don't know who said this is a good idea or who the person is that generated that A.I. and put it in front of him, but they should be fired. Terrible.
HUNT: It's certainly not love thy neighbor.
URBAN: It's just terrible politically as well. It creates back to, you know, David's earlier point, we have this great moment at the White House this afternoon with the McDonald's -- with the no tax on tips, McDonald's, harking back to another time. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about this, instead. We can't -- he's stepping on his own message. Very bad.
ELLEITHEE: Look, I think this is a president. You know, Lulu said. Everyone knows you don't turn yourself into a messiah figure. I think this is a president who actually does see himself as some sort of messiah figure, and so was really surprised by this backlash. I think this is a president who is also shown time and time again that he really doesn't understand faith in the way that most people who practice it do.
And so, he runs into problems like this, but it keeps -- I keep coming back to the point that David was just making, like, what he chose to lash out at the pope over was a message of peace. Wasn't that long ago that Donald Trump was criticizing people for not giving him the Nobel Peace Prize, right? But he's attacking the pope for pushing a message of peace.
If that doesn't tell you enough about what this president's agenda is, I don't know what does.
HUNT: Well, it's interesting that you say that he is coming at this as someone who doesn't come to this honestly, to this faith situation. Obviously, there are many evangelicals in the country who have come to support President Trump and to take him as one of their own.
But let's just do a little refresher on what the president -- he's been asked, okay, about the bible a number of times in his political career. We sort of stack them all together for you just as a little bit of a refresher. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: I'm wondering what one or two of your most favorite Bible verses are, and why.
TRUMP: I wouldn't want to get into it because to me, that's very personal.
INTERVIEWER: Even to cite a verse that you like.
TRUMP: No, I don't want to do that.
INTERVIEWER: An Old Testament guy or a New Testament guy?
TRUMP: Probably equal.
TRUMP: Two Corinthians 3:17. That's the whole ballgame.
I encourage you to get this God bless the USA Bible.
ANNOUNCER: Introducing the limited edition God Bless the USA Bible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And I think someone in our text chain noted that that, oh, yes, $59.99 was the cost of that of that bible that the president was selling.
I mean, David, there is such a thing for -- for whatever reason, there are a lot of Christian voters who have been, you know, have voted for President Trump. I mean, typically authenticity is looked up -- looked upon as something that is good to have a good characteristic in a politician. But voters have been willing to overlook this. Why?
FAHRENTHOLD: I think there is a qualitative difference, though, between what he's done so far and what's happened today and the other things are him saying, I care as much about maybe not the bible. I don't know the words exactly, but I care about the message. I care about the things that you care about. And so even when I'm selling you a bible, it's because I love the bible so much, and I want you to have it right. None of that is him putting himself in the shoes of God or the son of God.
That's what makes this go one step beyond. Not like we all believe together. We all care about the same things. But like, you know, I'm above you all. I actually, I'm, you know, I'm putting myself in Jesus's shoes.
You can see why that people would view that as a -- is a step too far, even though he's gone a long way before.
URBAN: I think David's point is right. You know that Christians, evangelicals, and others are willing to give him a pass on lots of things because he's the most pro-life president in the history, right?
[16:30:05]
He's -- he supports Israel, which a lot of Christians, you know, have -- have a view on that -- on their -- on their support of Israel. He is against, you know, a lot of -- a lot of the things that the very evangelical church believes in in terms of, you know, trans rights and all these, you know, women and boys and women's sports and a lot of the social issues. They may say he may not be exactly what we we envision as somebody in our in our flock, but he, he fights for us.
ELLEITHEE: He's a flawed messenger, right? This is what a lot of evangelicals --
URBAN: But he -- but he --
ELLEITHEE: -- a lot of evangelicals --
URBAN: But he fights for us. But he fights for us.
ELLEITHEE: He's a flawed messenger, but he's on our message. Here he is saying, I am not a flawed messenger. Here he is saying, I am -- I am the divine.
HUNT: Right, which exact -- yes. And that you've encapsulated it quite well considering what the word of Jesus typically means to any believing Christian.
All right. So, to come here in THE ARENA growing calls for Democratic congressman Eric Swalwell to resign following allegations of sexual misconduct. He denies those allegations, but some members of his own party say they're ready to expel him from the House.
Plus, we are a little more than six hours into a U.S. naval blockade of Iran's ports, and already, Iran is threatening to retaliate and sink American ships. Ahead, what it will mean for the stalled peace talks?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How long are you waiting for them to come back to the negotiating table?
TRUMP: Oh, I don't know. I don't care if they come back or not. If they don't come back, I'm fine.
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[16:35:55]
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REPORTER: Are another round of talks planned with Iran? And if so, will you send Vice President J.D. Vance with?
TRUMP: Well, he's done a good job, with Steve and Jared. They've all done a very good job. And I can tell you that we've been called by the other side. They'd like to make a deal very badly, very badly
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Hours into the U.S. naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, President Trump told reporters this afternoon that Iran has, in fact, reached out, with one U.S. official telling CNN that the U.S. and Iran are still engaged in talks after the collapse of negotiations in Pakistan this past weekend.
That as administration officials are internally discussing another potential in-person meeting with the Iranians before the ceasefire deal expires next week, the president sharing that the sticking point in this past weekend's talks was, quote, "over nuclear," end quote.
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TRUMP: It's over the fact that they will never have a nuclear weapon Iran, you're marking it down. Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.
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HUNT: All right. Joining me now is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Ambassador Richard Haass.
Thank you so much for being here. It's always great to see you, sir.
I want to start big picture. I mean, do you think that this blockade is the right move in the wake of what we saw from those talks over the weekend?
AMB. RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT EMERITUS, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: In principle, yes, it's an untenable situation. It's really unacceptable that Iran controls this international waterway, makes money from it, denies its use to others. So, that -- that couldn't go on.
Would I have done it in exactly this way? No, I would have done it three weeks or a month sooner as a backdrop to the peace talks, I would have tried to bring others in from the beginning. The local countries, the Europeans. I would have had the military part of this matched by a diplomatic initiative where we would create some type of a new Strait of Hormuz governing authority, and we would invite Iran to participate in that.
So, lots of details I would have done differently, Kasie. But directionally, yes, I think this is the right thing to do.
HUNT: So, from this point going forward, I how do you think we shake this loose? Because clearly, this isn't a long-term solution.
HAASS: No, it's not a solution. The idea is to get this strait open for everybody. Not -- not closed.
I would like to get back to the talks. What you said, I find quite encouraging. I would not put the nuclear issue front and center. Nothing's changed with the disposition of Iran's nuclear capabilities.
And I would simply say, look, we've got to address this and we're prepared to live with the status quo. You just can't change the status of any of your nuclear materials and all that while we're talking. But I would focus on getting the strait open that has the greatest immediate effect on the international economy.
So, I would target the talks on that, make that phase one, and then I would turn to the nuclear, afterwards.
HUNT: Sir, a lot has been made of J.D. Vance's role, the vice president's role in all of this. And of course, he is potentially interested in greater things, potentially running for president in the wake of this term. What do you make of the job he's done here, and what do you think it says about his future?
HAASS: And the honest answer, probably not the one you want. I have no idea. I wasn't in the room. The fact that he was there with the Iranian, you know, the senior Iranian official, the speaker of the parliament, it was a good sign that showed there was high level backing, the fact that even after the breakdown in the talks or after the 21 hours, were not going back to war.
The fact that we're talking about resuming the talks, I think what this reflects, Kasie, is that neither side has an incentive to go back to war. We've essentially run out of military targets that are useful, and Iran's shown its ability to be resilient. They want to start the task of rebuilding and recovering. So, I think the good news is the context is favoring diplomacy.
[16:40:02]
And now, as is often the case, we've simply got to get from here to there.
HUNT: And where do you think the Israelis are in all of this, especially the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu?
HAASS: I think that's an awkward situation because I think Israel's agenda is increasingly diverging from our own. You know, we're worried about getting the strait open. That's not Israel's priority. They're worried about not just the nuclear but Iran's support for proxy groups, worried about Iran's ballistic missile and drone programs.
I think essentially, the U.S. and Israeli priorities aren't the same. And it's going to be very hard to manage this. And I think sooner rather than later, the presidents going to have to get on the phone to the Israeli prime minister and say, knock it off. This is not a moment. Youve got to pursue a war in Lebanon. Your vital national interests are at stake. And occupying this part of Lebanon. So, stand down. We want to get the strait open and we want to address the nuclear program.
HUNT: Yeah. I also was really interested to know kind of bigger picture pulling, pulling the lens out from just Iran in this conflict. What we saw in Hungary over the weekend, essentially the fall of Viktor Orban, who had been in autocratic power for 16 years. Obviously, J.D. Vance was also involved in that. But we've often looked at him as someone who also helped explain the era that we are living in globally that helped explain Donald Trump here in the United States. Other types of leaders across the globe.
How do you explain what we saw in Hungary and how it relates or doesn't relate to these trends across the world?
HAASS: Look, it was a good thing. It showed that after 16 years, forces have changed, move against the status quo. In this case, an authoritarian Hungarian leader, he was running in a liberal democracy. He was corrupt. He was de-institutionalizing the country. He was running the economy into the ground.
Well, that ought to be a clear message here to the Trump administration. Donald Trump has dominated American politics for well over a decade now. The economy is not doing well, whether it's because of tariffs, his attacks on the Fed or now this this, war, the corruption, shall we say, is considerable.
So, this ought to be a political warning to him that the tolerance of publics is not -- is not unlimited. So, look, I took what happened in Hungary as good news, but also really good news for Europe. Hungary was the principal holdout that got in the way, for example, of European support for Ukraine, opposition to Russia.
So, all in all, it was a pretty good day yesterday.
HUNT: All right. Ambassador Richard Haass, thank you, sir. Always appreciate having you. I hope you'll come back soon.
HAASS: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Ahead here in THE ARENA, what is next for Congressman Eric Swalwell after allegations of sexual misconduct -- allegations he denies and his bid for California governor? The big question here in Washington, is his congressional seat the next to go?
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[16:47:26]
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REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): These allegations of sexual assault are flat false. They are absolutely false. They did not happen. They have never happened.
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HUNT: The House Ethics Committee has announced it's opening an investigation into Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California, who is facing multiple sexual misconduct allegations, including from a former staffer who says Swalwell raped her. CNN and "The San Francisco Chronicle" reported this on Friday.
Three other women who spoke with CNN alleged various sexual misconduct by the congressman, including sending them unsolicited, explicit messages or nude photos.
Swalwell, who strongly denies the assault allegations, suspended his campaign for California governor on Sunday, writing this, quote, "To my family, staff, friends and supporters, I am deeply sorry for mistakes in judgment I've made in my past. I will fight the serious false allegations that have been made, but that's my fight, not a campaigns."
The allegations have sparked bipartisan calls for Swalwell's resignation, with some Democrats even saying they would vote to expel him, setting up a potential wave of expulsion of other House members also facing allegations of misconduct.
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KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Will you vote to expel Eric Swalwell?
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): And Congressman Gonzales, I would. I do think that both of them need to step down from Congress.
REP. EUGENE VINDMAN (D-VA): We need to be crystal clear on this. The accusations are absolutely heinous. And his admissions betraying his family are deplorable. So, Eric Swalwell needs to resign.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Not only does he need to step aside, but there needs to be House Ethics investigation and law enforcement investigation.
REP. JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI (D-MD): He should resign from Congress. And if he doesn't, there's a mechanism through which we can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. My panel is back.
David Fahrenthold this, of course, would be a rare move for the House of Representatives. It's only happened six other times in history. But this is a remarkable fall for someone who was potentially on track to become governor of California, an enormously powerful role, someone who has been kind of a leading Donald Trump critic here in Washington and yet had managed to escape accountability for these accusations to this point. Again, he denies the allegations.
FAHRENTHOLD: It is remarkable how far he had gotten. And how close that race is sort of fragmented.
[16:50:00]
But he seemed to be the leading Democrat in that race, so he seemed like he had the best chance of being the next governor of California.
I think people talk about how this is an era of no more shame. There's no more accountability in American politics. This is a case where there has been accountability. You've seen people, you know, these reports have been swiftly followed by calls for him to be expelled from Congress.
But there still is a little bit reason to be cynical here, which is that in Congress, how do you get kicked out of Congress? You do something bad. And also, somebody from the other party did something bad at the same
time. So, you can be expelled together and nobody loses a partisan advantage.
I think that's part of the reason why he's maybe facing expulsion is that there's a Republican, Tony Gonzales, from Texas, that people are also interested in kicking out.
HUNT: Lulu, the -- this woman, one of them spoke with my colleague Pam Brown in shadow because she's concerned about professional reprisal. But it does take an immense amount of courage to do something like this. What do you make of the fact that these women decided that they were willing to speak out there?
Now, we should also say there was one woman who was who put her name on the allegations that she made in the CNN reporting.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think, obviously, it makes it a lot more credible. And it makes it really hard for someone like Swalwell to say that nothing happened.
I mean, you know, it's not one allegation, it's a series of allegations. The testimony is specific and horrific. And let's not forget that this isn't just political ramifications. These are human beings who, you know, potentially, suffered the worst thing that you can suffer.
And a criminal investigation is going to be opened or has been opened. And I think that at the end of the day, if he did what is alleged, he shouldn't just be expelled from Congress. He should be prosecuted.
HUNT: Mo Elleithee, you obviously heard Pramila Jayapal there say she would vote to expel him if there's also a vote, you know, Tony Gonzales is a Republican. There's obviously incredibly narrow majority in the House. There have been also plenty of Republicans.
And we should walk through. I want to distinguish between Swalwell. We walked through the Swalwell allegations.
Tony Gonzales is a Republican. He's accused of having an affair with a staffer who later died by suicide and of exchanging sexually explicit messages with another staffer. So again, the power dynamic, these are two other members who are facing allegations and potential calls for their expulsion.
Sure. Phyllis McCormick is accused of financial crimes embezzling $5 million.
Cory Mills, it's campaign finance laws. It's receiving special favors. It's engaging in sexual misconduct. It's misusing congressional resources.
Man, now that I'm going through this, it's like there's a lot of issues going on in the House of Representatives.
But, Mo, I mean, this point about, okay, well vote yes to expel the Democrat. If we also vote yes to expel the Republican. I mean, I've covered this town long enough, I get it. But man, it's depressing.
ELLEITHEE: Yeah, it is. We should look at these things in isolation, right? Each of these cases should be looked at in isolation. They should not be linked to one another because these are very serious, heinous allegations and crimes. Potential crimes.
And so, I don't like the idea of linking them. Now, that's not what I heard, congresswoman -- the congresswoman say. I didn't hear her say if. I think I heard her say "and", and that's a legitimate place to be, right? We should do this over here and we should do this over here.
But if we are linking them like that's not the right place to be. The one thing in Eric Swalwell statement that I agreed with was when he said at the end, this is my fight. It shouldn't be a campaign's. Nor should it be Congress's, right?
He should do the right thing and step down because he is going to now face some pretty significant, legal investigations, criminal investigations. And the women who are the victims deserve to be heard and have their stories investigated. That shouldn't -- Congress needs to move on with the nation's business. If he refuses to step down, then Congress can make sure it can move on with the nation's business by expelling him.
URBAN: And I would just say, you know, as the backdrop of this, remember, Congresswoman Mace and Luna and others have been pushing this legislation. You know, in the House, there are all these non- disclosure agreements and these payments to kind of brush a lot of these things under, you know, sexual assault allegations and just a lot of the dirty laundry and the House of Representatives kind of get swept away by these secret payments that have been taking place for years.
And so, I think there's a move afoot to really kind of clean house, tidy things up. The American public is nauseous about insider trading that goes on every day in the Congress. You can go to any one of these any website in America that tracks, you know, house members trading.
And so there's this -- there's a very negative view. You know, congress is an all time low always, but it keeps sinking lower and lower, as you said, Kasie been here a long time.
[16:55:01]
How low can it go? It keeps it -- apparently, there is no -- there is no depth that it can't sink to.
I think some of these things go to reestablishing the Americans faith in the system in our Congress by cleaning house and passing some of this legislation to make sure this doesn't affect young women in the future.
HUNT: Well, it is worth noting that fully half of the six members, so three of the six members that have been expelled from Congress in the history of the body were expelled for fighting for the Confederacy. Okay? Being literal traitors.
Anyway, we'll be right back.
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HUNT: All right. Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you being here.
Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Really appreciate it.
But don't go anywhere. "THE LEAD" anchored today by Anderson Cooper starts right now.
