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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Planned U.S.-Iran Talks On Hold As Ceasefire Nears Expiration; Just In: Trump Says He'll Extend Ceasefire With Iran; Fed Chair Nominee Vows Not To Be Trump's "Sock Puppet". Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 21, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
KATIE MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: And we hope he's praying for us.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And, Katie McGrady, thank you so much for sharing your perspective with us. Appreciate your time.
MCGRADY: Thank you guys.
SANCHEZ: And thank you for sharing your afternoon with us.
Brianna, glad we're back.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: Dream team back in action though.
We're going to hand it over to Kasie Hunt because THE ARENA starts right now.
(MUSIC)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Tuesday.
Right now, we are just one day away from the end of the ceasefire between the United States and Iran. And as we come on the air, it's unclear if either side will return to the negotiating table.
The key issue is the all-important Strait of Hormuz. Officials familiar with the matter tell CNN that Iran has conveyed to the United States that there will be no more talks until the U.S. ends its blockade of Iran's ports.
This afternoon, Iran's foreign minister even called the blockade, quote, "an act of war and thus a violation of the ceasefire."
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not dealing with the nicest group of people, but we're dealing with them very successfully. And the blockade has been a tremendous success. They said two days ago, "We will open the strait". I said, "No, we're not going to open the strait until we have a final deal." "No, no, we want to open the strait." They said, "We're not opening." We totally control the strait, just so you understand.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HUNT: Overnight, Iranian state media released this footage, which they claim shows ships transiting the Strait of Hormuz, but only with their permission. We here at CNN cannot independently verify those details. But Iran putting this out there and making that claim shows just how big a bargaining chip control of the strait is. That is, if talks resume.
Just hours ago, the lead negotiator, Vice President J.D. Vance, was spotted entering the White House despite having been expected to fly to Pakistan this morning. In fact, our sources say that no one from the American delegation has left the country yet.
President Trump, however, seems content to let the clock run out.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: I expect to be bombing because I think that's a better attitude to go in with, but were ready to go. I mean, the military is raring to go.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA. My panel is here, and we're joined by CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, what's the latest that you're hearing as, of course, we've been watching officials come and go from the White House. What do we know about if when they plan to head to Pakistan?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, they are being incredibly tight lipped about this. It is very need-to-know basis. We do know it seems to be an all-hands-on deck situation here, because everyone is at the White House.
It's not just the Vice President Vance. We also saw the secretary of defense. We saw Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, and we saw the rest of that American delegation, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, who were supposed to be on a plane from Miami to Islamabad, arrive here in D.C. and go into the White House.
So, clearly, they are here having meetings. We know the meetings are about Iran. That is what we were told hours ago. And while we are being told that the trip is not canceled, it certainly seems as though they have put this on a hold. We don't know when he's going to leave. We don't know if he is going to leave.
And you mentioned the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump obviously could end the blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. But we know the U.S. was using that as leverage, using it for leverage to make sure the deal went through, to make sure that the Iranians didn't back out or change anything at the last minute, because they believe that is their biggest power play right now, this blockade on the Strait of Hormuz.
So, still a lot of questions as to where exactly this stands. As you note, we have been in a place where the ceasefire was supposed to be over tonight at 6:30. Then President Trump said he's not going to extend it, but it's actually Wednesday night.
That was all in relation to the idea that vice president was going to have to get on a plane and fly for hours and hours and hours, get there, do the negotiating and sign this deal. We are past that point now.
This is going to take a long time for him to get there. If he goes at all, then have the negotiations then potentially sign something. So, it seems almost impossible now that we're not going to blow right through that ceasefire deadline.
HUNT: Indeed.
All right. Kristen Holmes for us at the White House -- Kristen, thank you very much.
All right. My panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; CNN political director and Washington bureau chief David Chalian; CNN political commentator, former Biden White House communications director Kate Bedingfield; and CNN's senior political commentator, former director for Senator Mitch McConnell, political director Scott Jennings, among other things.
We're also joined by "Axios" global affairs correspondent Barak Ravid.
Thank you all for being here.
Barak, I want to start with you just on your latest reporting, since you talked to so many players all the time in the region, what is your understanding of what the real holdup is here, the real story, as these talks are on hold?
BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think right now, it's even I think the situation is even worse than on hold. As far as I understand, Vice President Vance's trip to Pakistan was, quote/unquote, "postponed indefinitely," which in English means canceled.
[16:05:09]
And I think that when you ask the Iranians, you know, they, it's -- you know, now we're in the blame game. The Iranians are blaming the U.S., that the reason that they're not participating in the talks in Pakistan is the naval blockade. The U.S., on the other hand, says that internal divisions within the Iranian leadership caused this crisis because the IRGC did not allow the civilian leaders to take the deal that President Trump offered.
I have to say that I personally have several indications that this is true, that internal divisions within the Iranian leadership, you know, is the at least one of the reasons to this crisis. I think, foreign minister, Iranian Foreign Minister Araghchi, speaker of parliament Ghalibaf and the president, Iranian President Pezeshkian all thought that it's -- that Iran should participate in these talks in the U.S. because they thought this could lead to an extension of the ceasefire.
The IRGC, on the other hand, especially its commander, Vahidi, and the commander of Iran's armed forces, General Abdollahi, both thought that as long as the naval blockade is in place, Iran should not be part of any negotiations.
This leads us within hours, maybe, to the resumption of the war, because the deadline, the original deadline of the ceasefire is around 6:30 p.m. Eastern Time. President Trump said yesterday that he might give it another day, but I think there is a real -- there's a real possibility that within hours this war could resume.
HUNT: Okay. So, David Chalian, what does that mean for an American president who really wants this to be done?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I mean, he couldn't be more clear about that, even in a CNBC interview this morning, despite everything you just heard from Kristen and Barak Ravid about the state of play right now, the president this morning was still very like, no, no, no, there's a deal to be had here. They really want a deal. We're going to have a deal because he is so desirous of an off ramp from this.
The war is obviously a political weight around his neck, his party's neck this midterm election year, and he's looking for a way out. That doesn't mean that he won't. Obviously, he has all the options in front of him like that he won't engage with military response if that is required. I'm not suggesting he's just going to throw his hands up and not do that, but that is a far more politically perilous route for him than finding some way to call even an interim step here for an extended ceasefire a bit of a win.
HUNT: Well, and let's put up the recent NBC polling, 67 percent of Americans say that they disapprove of President Trump's handling of the war with Iran. Just 33 percent approve. But of course, one of the key dynamics here for President Trump is the splintering in his MAGA base, because the America first movement in many ways has been criticizing him.
A number of its leading figures have been criticizing him. I want to play something, Tucker Carlson said just in the last day or so, where he said he was sorry for misleading people and telling them to support President Trump. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, "THE TUCKER CARLSON SHOW": You and I and everyone else who supported him, you wrote speeches for him. I campaigned for him. I mean, were implicated in this for sure.
BUCKLEY CARLSON, TUCKER'S BROTHER: Yes. T. CARLSON: It's not enough to say, well, I changed my mind or like,
oh, this is bad. I'm out. It's like, in very small ways, but in real ways, you and me and millions of people like us are the reason this is happening right now.
B. CARLSON: Yes.
T. CARLSON: So, I do think it's like a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. You know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be and I want to say I'm sorry for misleading people. It was not intentional. That's all I'll say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I'm sorry for misleading people.
And, Scott Jennings, when he was talking there to his brother, the former GOP Trump speechwriter Buckley Carlson. What do you say of that?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, is his preference that Kamala Harris had become the president of the United States. That will come as a surprise to, I'm sure, a lot of people who used to view Tucker Carlson as a conservative and someone who, you know, had certain kinds of values. And what's he sorry for that we got a new engagement here that might ultimately lead to taking away nuclear weapons --
HUNT: We got into engagement, Scott? That is quite a way to put it.
JENNINGS: -- from a -- from Iran. I mean.
HUNT: We started a war.
JENNINGS: I mean, is he is he now claiming he had no idea that Donald Trump held the position that he would never permit Iran to have nuclear weapons, if that's what he's saying today. He's kind of a moron.
I mean, I don't know how else to put it or he's willfully misleading people.
[16:10:00]
The president was clear he'll never let them have nuclear weapons. We just saw on "60 Minutes" on Sunday night, a broad agreement among the experts. They have 970 pounds of enriched uranium, enough to make 10 or 11 nuclear bombs. This is not acceptable to the president.
He was -- had that position back in 2024. He had that position back in the first term. He has that position today to say now that you're sorry, that you elected a president that wanted to take away nuclear weapons from this terrorist regime. I don't get it.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Tucker Carlson was also at the White House as recently as, I think, February, I mean, a few weeks ago. So I -- you know, I --
HUNT: "The New York Times" reported he was on the phone with President Trump and lead up to all of this.
BEDINGFIELD: Yeah. I mean, so -- I, you know, I'm not going to -- I'm not going to go so far as to agree with Scott by any -- by any -- by any --
JENNINGS: Why? It'd be the best possible P.R. thing you could do, right?
BEDINGFIELD: But I am going to say -- I am going to say that the idea that we're going to take Tucker Carlson at face value on this, like I -- that's -- I'm not somebody personally who is going to listen to Tucker Carlson say these things and, and feel like he has had a genuine change of heart. I think there's all sorts of personal ambitions at play here. We can set that aside.
But I will say it is problematic for Trump's coalition. And more importantly, even outside of the pod sphere, real Americans, actual voters, including Republican voters are frustrated by this war. They don't understand why we're in it. We're continuing to see what we've seen play out today is Donald Trump had his vice president teed up on the tarmac to go and negotiate, and then had to pull him back.
Just as a general rule, if you were trying to project strength and like you have your arms around the situation, having to pull your vice president back from traveling to the negotiations, not a great signal.
So, I think in addition to the fact that gas prices, oil prices, airplane tickets are going up, Trump is also eroding on this on this sense that he is strong and in control. So politically, hugely problematic for him.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: To the gas prices point, what's fascinating about all this, it seems that Iran might be learning that they don't need nuclear weapons to hold the world hostage. This all of this fighting over the Strait of Hormuz, which is wreaking havoc on the global economy to some extent, is their great power. And to some extent, it would almost be more efficient for them to just give up all the nuclear or the uranium that they have and be the economic terrorists to some extent. Right?
I mean, I'm not -- you're bristled there, I don't know --
CHALIAN: No, no, I wasn't bristling at all. No, no I was just saying that the removal of -- to your point about the nuclear material of not allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon like that, is the most politically popular thing ever, which is the goal. I understand the goal, but squaring that with -- in that same poll, that NBC poll that showed more than six in 10 Americans do not want any additional military action, including a significant chunk of Republicans who said that in the NBC poll. And we see that in polling throughout, squaring that popular goal of an Iran without nuclear, with a clear majority of Americans not wanting any more military action, that's the conundrum the president finds himself in. JENNINGS: Sure. Well, I think most Americans would hope that the
Iranians come to their senses. And there's a diplomatic solution. But at some juncture, if they don't want to do that, and the IRGC doesn't want to let the other civilians in the Iranian government do that, they're going to have to learn the lesson again.
There's no education in the second kick of a mule. That'd be my only advice to the Iranians.
HUNT: So, we've got a little bit of breaking news here. There's a new statement from President Trump just posted on his Truth Social platform.
He says this, quote, "Based on the fact that the government of Iran is seriously fractured, not unexpectedly so, and upon the request of Pakistani officials, we have been asked to hold our attack on the country of Iran until such time as their leaders and representatives can come up with a unified proposal. I have therefore directed our military to continue the blockade and in all other respects remain ready and able and will therefore extend the ceasefire until such time as their proposal is submitted and discussions are concluded one way or the other. President Donald J. Trump."
Barak Ravid -- I mean, how do you read between the lines of this? I mean, the president here -- clearly, we will therefore extend the ceasefire until such time as their proposal is submitted. You were talking just at the top of the show about thinking we could see this resumption of hostilities any moment.
Seems like the president is taking that off the table for now. What say you?
RAVID: Well, first, we said, right, that Vice President Vance postponed his trip to Pakistan indefinitely. I think President Trump here announced that there will be a ceasefire indefinitely. He did not give any time frame for this extension of the ceasefire.
And I think what we see here is what -- you know, I think we discussed, you know, earlier in the show, President Trump wants to end the war. He did not want to resume it. He wants a diplomatic solution. He thinks that all the military objectives, as far as I again, this is what I hear from people around him. He thinks that the military objectives have mostly been achieved and therefore, the other objectives that still need to be achieved will be better achieved through a diplomatic deal, especially when it comes to Iran's nuclear program, its enrichment program, and its enriched uranium stockpiles.
[16:15:12]
And I think this is the reason that President Trump just now announced that he is extending the ceasefire indefinitely. I think this means that he wants a deal. The problem is that if you announce such a thing, you take a lot of your leverage away. And while the blockade still will -- still continue, I'm not sure that the Iranians will now feel that there's credible military threat. Therefore, I'm not sure it will lead to concessions. HUNT: All right. Barak Ravid for us -- Barak, thank you very much.
Really appreciate your reporting and analysis.
The rest of my panel, standby here.
Coming up next in THE ARENA, a veteran U.S. diplomat will be here live to talk about the future of those talks with Iran, as they are increasingly up in the air, as we're seeing. We're going to talk with Ambassador Richard Haass, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:20:28]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
We are following new developments just in from President Trump. The president says he is extending the ceasefire with Iran as talks that had been planned between the U.S. and Tehran are on hold.
Joining me now is president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Ambassador Richard Haass. He's, of course, also a former special assistant to President George W. Bush.
Richard Haass, always wonderful to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
What do you make of what the president has announced here? I have to say, the language alone in this post is remarkably sober by President Trump's standards.
AMB. RICHARD HAASS, AUTHOR, "THE WORLD: A BRIEF INTRODUCTION": Well, I think what happened is people look at the implications, for example, of resuming conflict, to start attacking. And we don't -- we don't have essentially a serious target set left anymore. Plus, renewed warfare opens up the possibility of Iranian retaliation against the countries of the region. That would be a -- that would be a disaster.
So, I think the president wisely extended the ceasefire. And I think what you have now, Kasie, even though you don't have formal negotiations, I think this is an interesting moment for signal passing, whether its direct or through Pakistan or whatever, because what you could have, for example, is the United States could signal what we would be prepared to do with standing down the blockade, what we would require of Iran, or we could send some messages about nuclear issues or what have you, or what we would want in order to get the talks restarted.
So, I actually think this is a its actually a positive, a positive development here.
HUNT: One of the pieces of this message was him, the president saying that they're going to wait for the Iranians to come back with a proposal of some sort. And Barak Ravid was on earlier reporting about splits, essentially, between the military and civilian wings of the leadership of Iran. What role do you think that's playing here?
HAASS: Well, it's both ironic and it's serious. It's ironic because the United States is in no small part responsible for it. The United States and Israel, all the targeted killings of Iranian political, clerical and military leaders created a leadership vacuum. And what you now have is all sorts of people getting their footing, competing with one another.
So, it doesn't come as any surprise. If, you know, the other day when the Iranians sent their delegation to Islamabad, they could have filled Madison Square Garden with it. There were so many people representing so many constituencies.
So, I think giving them some time and putting the ball in their court, letting them propose something rather than jamming them with an American position, I think this is much better. It forces them to come to terms with one another, and we're not put in the position of putting on the table something that looks unrealistic or from their point of view, insulting to their dignity or pride.
So, I actually like this. It gives everyone a little bit of time to take a breath, and it gives them some time to sort themselves out.
HUNT: What do you think are the best and worst case scenarios sitting here today?
HAASS: Well, the worst we already alluded to, which is that talks, for whatever reason don't go forward either because the Iranians can't come to agreement or we ultimately put something on that they reject out of hand. And then you have a resumption of hostilities and things escalate and bad situations could get worse. And that would be the definition of that. A lesser bad situation would simply be the strait stays closed that you have -- you don't have active hostilities, but you have a closed Strait of Hormuz, which leaves everybody, Iran as well as the world worse off economically.
The best is obviously you get some kind of a deal on the street that allows it to reopen, and it puts a limit on Iranian control or influence.
And then secondly, you deal with either the nuclear issue, you know, to some degree, you don't have to necessarily solve it, but you deal with it. You park it in an acceptable place.
I don't think it's realistic to think we're going to get a deal on other issues, like Iranian support for proxy groups or Iranian ballistic missiles, what have you. My own sense is that that's two ambitious. But the two principal issues, the strait and the nuclear issue, getting some resolution of those two on terms we could live with, I think that's the best we could hope in -- we could hope for. And I think it's -- I think it's a possibility. I don't -- I don't think anybody should rule that out.
HUNT: As you sit here and lay that out for us very smartly, of course, it just occurs to me that the Strait of Hormuz was not on the table as an issue, really, before we started this war.
[16:25:06]
Do you see America -- if we have that best case scenario that you laid out, are we better off in the wake of this or are we not?
HAASS: No. We'll be lucky if we're not worse off or not too much worse off. You can't be better off with the Strait of Hormuz because there was no issue there beforehand. So, at best, you get back to where you were and probably more realistically, we won't get all the way there, but maybe we can get 90 percent of the way there.
The nuclear issue, again, it wasn't an active issue. Iran was not about to do anything new when we started this war six weeks ago. There's no intelligence there.
The kind of deal we're going to have to negotiate is probably the sort of thing that measures Witkoff and Kushner were negotiating just beforehand and rejected. So we're going to come back to some the same set of issues, by the way, that the Obama administration negotiated, and this administration wouldn't negotiate. Inevitably, we're going to -- we're going to end up there.
But are we better off or worse off? Even under the best case, my sense is the only positive is Iran is for years going to be weaker, but they'll be able to regenerate their drones and ballistic missiles, and the -- and the rest.
The downsides, though, are many. Iran's learned some dangerous lessons about its ability to influence the region in the world by controlling the straits. American munitions stockpiles are much diminished. Americas relations with its Gulf partners, with its allies in Europe and Asia, are strained to an extraordinary degree. American standing in the world is down.
So overall, even under the best case, it's hard to see, shall we say, that we're -- that we're better off. I just don't see it.
I think history will be -- will be probably quite critical. But again, was a discretionary war what I would call a war of choice that didn't have to be fought at this time. I think history is going to be quite tough that the results won't justify the decision to go to war.
HUNT: All right. Ambassador Richard Haass, always really appreciate your perspective. Thank you so much for coming on.
HAASS: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. See you soon, I hope.
We've got some breaking news on Capitol Hill. Democratic congresswoman of Florida Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick becoming the latest lawmaker to resign from Congress.
CNN senior reporter Annie Grayer joins us now with more.
So, Annie, this came literally minutes before a high stakes decision expected from the ethics committee. What do we know?
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Kasie, it really caught members on the ethics committee by surprise because they were moments away from kicking off their hearing to try and figure out what punishment they wanted to prescribe to Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick. After finding her guilty of violating campaign finance laws and House rules. And I spoke with both the chairman, Republican chairman and the top Democrat on the panel who did not see this resignation coming, but did say that they supported the resignation.
They wouldn't say what ultimately their punishment that they were going to subscribe to Cherfilus-McCormick. But as soon as she resigned, that effectively ended the ethics committee investigation to her, which had been going for around three years. And it also put a stop to the expulsion resolution that was building momentum on Capitol Hill. So now that she has resigned as effective as of 1:30 p.m. today, the Ethics Committee investigation is over and she becomes the third member of Congress in just the last week to resign amidst scandal. And this is now a reckoning on Capitol Hill about how the body of congress is going to police itself. And the ethics committee, which oversees members conduct, is in the center of all of it.
HUNT: All right. Annie Grayer for us on Capitol Hill -- Annie, thanks very much for that reporting.
Coming up next, what the four living former presidents are saying today about the state of our country and its future.
Plus, we're going to talk live with Senator John Kennedy as one of his fellow Republicans, vows to block the confirmation of one of the president's newest appointees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Let's take the win. Let's get Warsh in there. Let's get Chair Powell comfortable with actually exiting at some point, not to 2028. And do that by eliminating a bogus investigation that started this whole drama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Across the country, preparations are already underway for the celebration of America's 250th birthday this summer. While that milestone comes at a time of deep division and heightened pessimism about the future of the country, all four former -- all four living former presidents are speaking out about why they have a different, more hopeful attitude about the future of the nation.
Presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Biden sitting down for a rare set of interviews with NBC News to share this message of optimism. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: When you look at the sweep of American history, we've gone through rough patches and we tend to come out on the other side of them stronger.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I am not concerned about the long term health of our country, because I've studied enough history to know that we've been through the periods of intense anger and intense rivalry of ideas. But the beauty about democracy, Jen, is that it's self-correcting.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: America is bigger than anybody's personal hopes and dreams.
JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm not sure were as divided as we portrayed.
BUSH: I would hope people will take a look at our history and realize we're an imperfect nation, trying to be more perfect, but be optimistic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:35:06]
HUNT: All right. My panel is back.
David Chalian pretty remarkable to watch these four men sit down for these interviews.
What -- what went through your mind watching it as someone who's seen it all?
CHALIAN: With a presidential daughter, no less. So it's, you know, it's kind of amazing.
HUNT: It helps to get the booking.
CHALIAN: To get the booking, yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
CHALIAN: But it was -- I'm obsessed with the president's club and I love to see them all. It was this note of optimism on the occasion of the 250th birth of the country. That is so good to hear.
Obviously, they come from a really unique perch. That's why it's such an exclusive club to be able to have that sense of optimism. And I know that may be hard for people who are in the throes of political battle every day, but these guys have served in such a unique capacity to be able to get the whole scope of the country and through history, to be able to bring credibility.
I don't think it's just some false sense of hope and optimism. I think it's informed sense of hope and optimism that the country comes through these challenges stronger.
BEDINGFIELD: I thought in reading their breadth of what they said, one of the things that struck me was that the kind of through line in what all four of them said went back to the American people, consistently went back to the people, and that their sense of hope was -- was, you know, came from having seen people across the country watching them in their own communities.
And so, I thought that was a -- I personally found that sort of inspiring and optimistic that, you know, the idea that, you know, the country will be -- will be saved by itself, by the people, by the American people.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. The thing that struck me when I watched it -- maybe -- this is part personal, but part global. It's -- I remember all of them as young men. They all started their careers very early and very young. We sort of watched them through their careers.
It's a reminder that presidents come and go, political movements come and go, and they don't really last that long. Just think about when's the last time you thought about --
HUNT: The Constitution did kind of write it that way?
WILLIAMS: It did. It did. Touche.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: But no -- but seriously, think about the last time you thought about Franklin Pierce. You know, there's --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- over lunch today.
WILLIAMS: I was in New Hampshire thinking about the president of the United States, New Hampshire, Franklin Pierce.
Point being, there's a lot of presidents that come and go. What has endured, and this is what all the presidents echoed as Kate said, is that it's the American people. And we are resilient.
HUNT: Scott?
JENNINGS: Yeah, I -- look, I like it when our leaders talk about a hopeful future. I think that's good for the country.
I -- I guess I sort of reject the premise of the conversation a little in that, you know, these are somehow dark times and we're living through this uncertain rough patch. I mean, I'm pretty happy, you know, and I think a lot of people are.
HUNT: And I don't want to make this about the current president, but the NBC poll said, do you expect life for your generation to be better, worse or about the same? And this, right, if there's any difference here and, you know, I think in many ways, the number that you see on this screen, it helps explain why some of the messaging that Donald Trump and other populists like Bernie Sanders, why what they have brought to the table has been resonating, right?
I mean, I take your point. You don't want to take the premise that people are pessimistic, not optimistic. But the bottom line is that's not -- I mean, that's not a number about politics, right? That's about people feeling like the promise of America isn't what it used to be, right?
And even if we look at like what the United States is the greatest country in the world, 36 percent of people said that was true, 41 percent said it's one of, but only 23 -- but 23 percent of people said, we're not one of the greatest countries.
JENNINGS: And if you look at the splits on that by politics, what would you find?
HUN: I don't have that slide.
JENNINGS: If you looked at this, but if you looked at the splits on how people feel about America, the promise of America, if you look at whether they're proud of their country or not, Gallup has measured this. Republicans and conservatives are proud to be Americans, and its Democrats and liberals who are not. And I think if you looked at the splits in that, you'd find.
HUNT: The opposite of where I wanted --
JENNINGS: You find -- you find -- you find the lines on the graph going this way. And honestly, I mean, I think there's a political movement in this country right now built on telling people that America is rotten at its core. It's not the Republican ideology.
BEDINGFIELD: But see, I think this point about partisan divide and the way you're breaking down partizan divide is exactly the problem. This is exactly why people --
JENNINGS: The problem, to tell you the truth about the numbers?
BEDINGFIELD: No, Scott, give me a break. Like come on.
JENNINGS: Okay. I'm not going to give you a break about the math.
BEDINGFIELD: The fact that we are in an era where our politics is so personally vicious, even if you are not willing to concede the idea that Americans don't feel optimistic about the future, you must be willing to concede that our politics right now is personal, vicious, divided, ugly in a way that turns regular people off, doesn't engage. So --
JENNINGS: So, I agree. We have -- we have Democrats cheering for Iran. I totally agree with you. It's crazy.
BEDINGFIELD: So, you know --
(CROSSTALK) HUNT: Okay. It's a nonpartisan thing. And it didn't used to be like that.
BEDINGFIELD: Right.
CHALIAN: What is true to your point, Scott, though, when you do look at the partisanship of these things, when you ask people sort of their outlook of the country or economically, it -- what we've seen, and this gets to our polarization is that depending on which party is in the White House, really informs because we live in such partisan times, how people view it.
[16:40:13]
So, when Democrats in the White House, Democrats feel better about the direction of the country and about the economy and things like that, then when a Republican, and it's vice versa, when the party changes.
And so, when you look under the hood, to your point, look at the partisan split on those things, that's not a constant. Our partisan politics define how partisans view that.
BEDINGFIELD: And I just think if every single conversation, even about civics in this country, boils down to, are you going to win or am I going to win, that's a problem.
WILLIAMS: I'm going to add to that. No, just a slightly different point. We are having a conversation about the future of America and lofty goals. What will trend on the Internet after this is you two fighting with each other, right?
JENNINGS: I'm not -- I'm not fighting.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no, you guys love each other and we know that. But here's the -- but this is important, though.
JENNINGS: We do love each other.
WILLIAMS: You do know, and I love you both.
JENNINGS: I don't care for you as much.
HUNT: All right. This is getting weird.
BEDINGFIELD: You guys are great.
WILLIAMS: We are. We are in an information moment in which people are getting calcified in their views because of these algorithms that are feeding people. Images of you two fighting or you two disagreeing with each other. That is what is sort of, I think, the darkest thing in our moment that is causing a lot of the division in the partisanship.
And that's the kind of thing for the presidents were talking about. Can we get to a place again where Americans can politely disagree? Well, what you have it.
JENNINGS: What you're raising, though, is the issue of we're not living in a shared reality.
WILLIAMS: We're not.
JENNINGS: This is the biggest difference today for the rest of the country's history. And it's hard to have a shared national purpose when you don't have a shared reality. And so, I think one of the things were going to have to grapple with as Americans is, you know, how do we have more of a shared reality when it comes to our political.
CHALIAN: Those for men, those for men, irrespective of party, have a shared reality.
WILLIAMS: And the issue.
CHALIAN: That's what was so interesting to hear from them.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. And the issue is not we have different realities and yours is bad. It's a recognition of the fact that people have different realities. Now, how do we cope with and move forward from there rather than tar the other side is evil. And I think that's the problem we're living with today.
HUNT: And the bottom line is the incentives, the things that generate, that try to grab your attention, right? They are grabbing your attention with things that are as divisive and as loud and as difficult as possible, instead of a system where the same, you know, one person on the air every night that everyone's watching together has to try to get as many people on the same page. It's just a completely different world.
Coming up next here, Louisiana Senator John Kennedy will be here live after his committee questioned President Trump's nominee to head the Federal Reserve, a nomination that one of his fellow Republicans says he's planning to block.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Just one little place where you disagree with Donald.
KEVIN WARSH, FED CHAIR NOMINEE: Well, I do have a disagreement, actually, Senator, with the president. I think even this morning he said that he thought I was out of central casting. I think central casting -- I'd look older, grayer, and maybe show up here with a cigar of sorts
WARREN: Quite adorable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA), BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Professor, what's the sock puppet?
WARSH: I think it's the thing you stick your hand in.
KENNEDY: Yeah, kind of like this.
Are you going to be the president's human sock puppet?
WARSH: Senator, absolutely not.
KENNEDY: Are you going to be anybody's human sock puppet?
WARSH: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: If you can believe it, that phrase, sock puppet. Well, that wasn't the only time that it came up, but Kevin Warsh confirmation hearing today, the Federal Reserve chair nominee telling senators that he won't simply do President Trump's bidding, telling Senator Kennedy there that the president has never asked him to, quote, "commit any particular interest rate decision, period," adding he would never -- he would ever agree to do that, even if nudged by the president.
But despite a Republican majority in the Senate, Warsh's nomination might be going nowhere fast. The Republican Senator Thom Tillis, who's the deciding vote on the committee, saying today he's still a no until the Justice Department drops its criminal investigation into the current chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TILLIS: The problem that I have here is that we had some U.S. attorney with a dream or assistant U.S. attorney thinking it would be cute to bring Chair Powell under an investigation just a few months before the position was going to be open. Let's get rid of this investigation so I can support your confirmation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now is Republican Senator John Kennedy from Louisiana. He sits on the Senate Banking and Judiciary Committee.
Senator, it's always great to have you here in THE ARENA. Quite a day it seemed there.
It was interesting to hear what Warsh told you there. Do you believe him that even though you know, when he says, okay, the presidents never directly asked me to do this -- I mean, the reality seems to be the presidents on board with where he is. And we all know what the president wants here.
KENNEDY: Okay. Well, I do believe him. Here's my impression after sitting through the entire hearing. I was there from start to finish.
Number one, the professor, as I call him, he used to teach at Stanford. Did perfectly fine. Number two, the hearing today didn't change a single vote. Number
three, the professor eventually will be confirmed. Number four, I don't know, though, what decade he'll be confirmed in.
Number five, Senator Tillis is going to hold up his nomination. I've known Tom a long time. He's very capable.
[16:50:00]
And he has no fire trucks left to give. He is serious as an aneurysm. And my advice to the White House, if they want to move this nomination, is to sit down with Senator Tillis and address his concerns. And that's what I think of today.
HUNT: Sounds like you're trying to send a message down Pennsylvania Avenue, as you often do.
KENNEDY: Well, I mean, I've said that many times. You don't -- you know, you don't have to understand the law of special relativity to see what's going on here. And, Tom, Tom's not -- he's not kidding, I know him, I know him well. And he's not going to budge.
And that's why I say I don't know what decade he'll be confirmed in. That's really right now, up to the -- up to the White House. I hope the president will reconsider his position.
HUNT: All right. Fair enough.
I want to also ask you broadly about the president's cabinet, because we did see another cabinet resignation today. I'm interested in your comments on that, as well as whether you think any others may not be long for the administration.
KENNEDY: Well, in terms of the, the labor secretary I think -- I think what she did was wise. I think she read the room. I think she should go home and have a very serious conversation with her husband based on the reporting that I've seen. Will there be others?
I don't know my guess is after the midterms, win, lose or draw, there will be some more changes. But you know, that's up to the -- up to the president.
HUNT: Do you have any concerns about the FBI Director Kash Patel's ability to do his job the way it needs to be done, considering some of the reporting that's been out there and the lawsuit that he's filed.
KENNEDY: I don't know if the article is true, Kasie. I tried to -- I tried to go read it, but "The Atlantic" has -- it was "The Atlantic", right? They're blocked by paywall, and they want something like 250 buck --
HUNT: I can send it to you.
KENNEDY: Yeah. Something like 250 bucks to subscribe. And I'm not going to do that. I don't know whether the stuff is true or not. I mean, the director says he's going to sue them for defamation. So, we'll find out. I haven't -- I've never seen him drunk, if that's
your question.
HUNT: Well, it wasn't -- it was not originally my question, but it certainly, you know, one, I appreciate you. I appreciate you raising that. You talked to President Trump on occasion. Do you think President Trump has confidence in his FBI director?
KENNEDY: He's never indicated to me that he does not but that's just a hard one for me to answer because we've never -- we've never talked about the FBI director. Mostly when the president and I talked, it's about -- it's about issues.
HUNT: So, speaking of issues, obviously we had some breaking news at the top of this hour on Iran. The president seeming to extend the ceasefire potentially indefinitely while negotiations continue, although, of course, the vice president's trip to Pakistan has been postponed indefinitely. How do you think the president's handling this?
KENNEDY: I thought, well, and I'll be glad to expand on that. But he announced an extension of the ceasefire. I think that was smart. And let me tell you, based on the classified and unclassified information that I have, you have to understand what's going on in our -- internally among the governments, such as it is in Iran. It's like -- it's like a -- it's like the cantina bar scene in "Star Wars".
You have -- you have -- you have a bunch of the new leaders. Some of them are scared. All of them are angry. Some of them are crazy. They think that if they die, they'll go to heaven and get 72 virgins. They're going to be very disappointed when they find out its 72 Virginians. But that's --
HUNT: Would you describe it as a wretched hive of scum and villainy?
KENNEDY: I would describe it as dealing with Charles Manson.
HUNT: I mean, I was going with your "Star Wars" reference. I was continuing that, but do continue with --
KENNEDY: I know. I don't want to get sued by "Star Wars". I mean, by "Star Wars". But look, these you're not -- when we deal with our enemies that have nuclear weapons, China, North Korea, Russia, these are rational people. The people running Iran are not. And I don't know if we'll ever get an agreement. As far as I'm concerned, we've achieved -- we have achieved our objectives.
[16:55:01]
I never believed that we would be able to change the regime. I've never believed that we would be able to get our hands on the enriched uranium without sending in troops, and I don't want to send in troops.
HUNT: All right. Senator John Kennedy, really appreciate you being on to talk about a very wide range of topics today, but always appreciate it very much. KENNEDY: Kasie, if you want to be labor secretary, let me know.
HUNT: You know, I'm very happy with the job that I have. Senator Kennedy, thank you very much. We hope to see you soon.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate you being here. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. Don't forget, you can always stream THE ARENA live.
Catch up whenever you want in the CNN app, scan that QR code below.
But of course, don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
