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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Reports Of Active Shooter At Islamic Center Of San Diego; Now: Police Update On Shooting At San Diego Mosque. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 18, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Breaking news at this hour. Right now, an active shooter reported at an Islamic center in San Diego.
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA.
We're going to continue to follow this developing story. You can see the enormous police presence at the Islamic Center in San Diego. This footage from moments ago.
We're going to go live to CNN's security correspondent, Josh Campbell, who has been following along here.
Josh, what do we know? What don't we know at this hour?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of information we don't yet know, but we just did hear from San Diego Police who say that the scene there is active, but what theyre calling contained and that that word contained is very important. That signals to us that whatever the potential threat that may have been there, they don't believe goes beyond the large cordon that you see of just hundreds. It looks like law enforcement officers that responded from in and around the San Diego area.
Again, this is reports of an active shooter at the Islamic center of San Diego. This is in the northern part of the city. Now, the details, as I mentioned, are very limited, but we did see this mass influx of law enforcement at the largest mosque there in San Diego. And earlier, and I'll tell our viewers right now what you're watching on screen. And as we see the officers there moving around the building, we have purposely put that on a delay, and that is for officer safety purposes. As they go around the building.
But we see this appears to be a methodical clearing of that facility, where you have the tactical teams that will stage outside. They'll breach an entry or open a doorway, and then the team goes in. This is typically what we see in the wake of shooting reports of shooting incidents where they have to go through again, the entire property to ensure that there are no additional threats, that there are no additional victims.
There's still very little we have right now on a potential suspect or whether indeed shots were fired at all. Again, authorities are saying that there were reports of an active shooter. So were awaiting those details. Also waiting information on any potential victims.
Tragically, as we have seen in so many of these incidents, that you have people that are impacted, maybe not even physically, but psychologically. Weve seen on our affiliate images there, you see numerous people being brought out by police that included children that were there inside that house of worship.
According to the Islamic center, they have the regular five day prayers that Muslims adhere to. They have special services that take place so very much an active place where people in and around the community come to worship. Now that their day obviously rocked by reports of gunfire here. Now, we're seeing again from our affiliate people being brought out in a very methodical fashion.
Still no indication on any number of victims, any potential information about the suspect. We do know that a lot of these houses of worship, both of the Islamic as well as the Jewish faith, often will have security on site for congregants that come in order to ensure their safety. And so, there's a lot were waiting to hear about what actually transpired here. But we know just dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of police there on the scene.
HUNT: Yeah. Josh, can I just follow up by asking you about that? I mean, it is visually incredibly striking to see the sheer number of cars. Can you offer any perspective from your years, both working in law enforcement and also covering it for us here at CNN as to what this may indicate, how often something like this may happen?
CAMPBELL: Yeah. Well, when I was with the FBI, I worked closely with the San Diego police department. And this is an agency that has a very large area to cover, but they have a lot of personnel, highly trained, but also they work very closely with the multiple law enforcement agencies that are around that area, the local city, the county, as well as the California Highway Patrol.
So anytime you get reports that there is any potential shooter, you'll have this surge of law enforcement that responds, and some agencies will what they call self deploy. They'll go just in case that they are actually needed. And so, we're seeing visually on our screen what appears to be the result of that, where you have just dozens and dozens of law enforcement officers that have responded here outside the Islamic City. They are part of the interstate exit now completely blocked off because it's filled with law enforcement officers that are there on scene.
Final point I think I'll say is that while they have, it appears more resources than they would ever need, theyre on site. We can tell a lot from the posture of law enforcement. Warned people that if you are in the San Diego area, take your cues from law enforcement until they give the all clear. Listen to them. Don't go to this area.
But as we kind of analyze some of these pictures, we no longer see the emergent kind of phase of this where you have officers rushing in, coming in, lights and sirens, an influx of ambulances. Often we're not seeing that right now, which means that if there was indeed an emergent phase here, if there were indeed shots fired, that has been resolved to some degree, we don't yet know whether the person has been arrested. If there's indeed a shooter, whether the person has barricaded, all authorities are saying right now that it has been contained. But so far, no all clear given yet from authorities.
HUNT: All right. Josh, stand by for us. I know you're going to continue to cover this breaking situation.
But I want to bring in Steve Moore. He's a CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI special agent.
And, Steve, we also are just seeing and I think we can show people were seen walking away from the mosque here. They were holding each others' hands. They were being escorted by police officers.
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This was from video that was shot by the CNN affiliate KFMB. There were also nervous parents that were seen lining the street outside the building, hoping to be reunited with their children. There is a K through 12 school on the site of this center.
Can you talk a little bit about what these agents are facing here? We, of course, are working with limited information about what has happened, but this is, of course, being reported as an active situation.
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah. And Josh is -- Josh's description of the event was very succinct and very accurate. So jumping off, jumping from there is right now there is in an active shooter, there is no such thing, technically as contained because as long as the person is armed and has access to potential victims then you -- that containment isn't part of the strategy.
So what that tells me is they do not have at this moment an active threat to any hostages that they are aware of. There's no gunfire. I mean, as we saw in Uvalde, tragically, they heard gunfire and didn't do anything.
Here, they're not hearing gunfire. Here, they're not hearing an emergent threat. So they are holding position, trying to figure out the, the reason for the -- for the report whether there are any victims and, basically trying to understand what's going on in there, but you can't just walk in and say, hey who's in charge here? You have to clear room by room, by room by room. And that's why its always helpful to have what appears to, you know a civilian to be a surplus of officers --
HUNT: Steve, I'm going to pause for just a second. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but please stand by.
Josh Campbell has some breaking news to report -- Josh.
CAMPBELL: Well, as this often is the case after the emergent phase here, we continue to get information. We're now hearing from the San Diego Police Department. They're saying that the threat at the Islamic center has been, quote, neutralized. Before there were reports of an active shooter. Now theyre confirming that there was indeed a threat. And now this individual has been what they're calling neutralized.
We've seen in past incidents that were neutralized can mean various different things. It could mean that the person has been apprehended. It could also mean that the suspect was engaged by law enforcement with gunfire. Sometimes people take their own life before they're about to be arrested.
But nevertheless, that is important news for the people there in and around that community. They're saying that there is no longer a threat, Kasie. That person, in their words, has been neutralized. We're, of course, waiting additional information on who that person was, what actually occurred, and any potential number of victims.
HUNT: Yeah, I was just going to say, Josh, at this hour, all we know is that the police department has said that the person this the threat has been neutralized, but we don't know exactly what transpired or anything about potential casualties here.
CAMPBELL: That's right. Absolutely. We're waiting that information,
HUNT: Steve Moore, if you're still with us. Can I just get you to weigh in on what Josh is reporting here? And of course, we're updating our reporting because this is just -- just coming in here that the San Diego Police Department has told reporters has put out publicly that the threat and this is the, quote, the threat at the Islamic Center has been neutralized.
MOORE: Okay. That's -- that's a nice way of saying I believe that the suspect is no longer physically capable of becoming a threat. If they had arrested him, there would have been, I believe, a statement saying that he was in custody. And it also indicates that it wasn't a false alarm, which, you know, some people might suspect when there's really nothing going on that they can see operationally.
So apparently, from what we're seeing, there was an active shooter there or there was an active threat. That threat has been I believe -- though I can't, I can't confirm to you that it was physically stopped and -- that right now they are in kind of a mop up phase, but a mop up phase is extremely complicated because you don't know at this point whether there was just one shooter, if there was a shooter. If there was, more than one assailant, whether there were devices left behind.
So even though you have your, your, apparent threat neutralized, you have to go through as if there could be another, assailant or other hazards that were left behind by this, by this threat, as they call it.
HUNT: Right. Well, and of course, I want to make sure that we are thinking of the people who are so worried about their loved ones who may have been here. Just as -- as we talk about what exactly it is that law enforcement is facing, and here we can only hope and pray that that does not mean that there have been significant casualties.
But, Josh Campbell, I know you have some updated information for us. What do you know?
CAMPBELL: Well, sadly, we learned there has been a fatality, this reporting from our colleagues, Mark Morales and Holmes Lybrand. There was indeed a shooting incident that occurred here at the Islamic center. Law enforcement sources tell them, and again, at least one individual was killed during this incident. We don't know the status of any other potential victims in this case. We don't know if this is someone who just showed up there completely unaffiliated with this -- with this area opening fire or what the details are, were awaiting that information, but sadly, we are learning at least one person killed.
We're also learning, as you were mentioning there from law enforcement, the San Diego police, there is no longer a threat as the suspect here has been, quote, neutralized in their words, of course, there will now be a massive investigation here to try to determine, first of all, who this individual is.
The first thing authorities will want to do after there is no longer a lingering threat is to what's called ID this person, fully identify them. Who is this person? Sometimes that's done very quickly. If someone actually has identification on them, the suspect. Sometimes, we've seen in past incidents where a gunman will come to a location without any identification. And so, that obviously makes it more difficult for authorities to try to identify who this person is.
They'll also be looking around this area to try to determine how the person actually, excuse me, actually got there. Is there a vehicle again, we've seen no indication this is the case just yet, but we've seen in past incidents where if there is indeed a suspect vehicle that is identified, authorities will want to fully clear that vehicle off case using bomb technicians as well. The bomb disposal units, just to make sure there is no potential threat inside that vehicle.
And then if there is indeed a vehicle, they can often be a treasure trove of clues to try to again, identify the person. And then the last and all of this, after they determine who this person is, of course, is to get to the why. What was the motive? We're talking here, of course, about a house of worship with the Islamic faith.
We know that we are in a heightened threat environment as it relates to political violence in this country. And so a lot of questions that we still have, even as we await authorities to give us the full picture. On whether there are any additional victims. We know, based on some of our affiliate coverage there, that we've been watching. Authorities have been going through that building very methodically. We can only imagine looking for additional threats, looking for any potential victims.
HUNT: Josh, can I ask you again, drawing on the wide experience that you have here, if we know there was one fatality, when we start to learn about these events and how they transpire, is it usually that were hearing that? I mean, if you say a threat has been neutralized, its possible that the person in question, the fatality in question is the aggressor in this case. Obviously, it may or may not be. I'd be interested to hear you speak a little bit to that. And does what they know or not know about someone in this kind of a
situation drive the early response? I mean, this sort of overwhelming response that we are seeing here, if this was, say, a disgruntled employee at this location, as we've seen in some shooting incidents in the past, would we be seeing this kind of response or does this indicate that we may be looking at something that's -- that's, you know, an outsider and a -- and with a troubling motive?
HUNT: No, it's a very important question. And, you know, once they are able to actually identify someone, they will then be able to work with the Islamic center there to try to determine, was this someone who was affiliated or was it someone who was completely unaffiliated? That would be an important piece of information. Also, you know, sadly, what we've seen as well is that anyone who may have been in that area whenever this happened and may have potentially seen or heard what occurred, is now a potential witness.
And, you know, we've seen these images, just heartbreaking images of children being brought, being walked out of there under the supervision and protection of law enforcement to try to get them out of the building as police did their searching. But authorities will want to know, did anyone recognize who this person was? Did this individual say anything, any type of utterance, anything, you know, anti-Islamic, for example, again, to try to get to any potential motive and often cases, you know, sadly in these situations, people will try to make sense of what is often very senseless, especially if were talking about targeted violence here.
But we have seen in those instances where people are proud of what theyre about to do and may actually leave behind some kind of evidence indicating about what's to take place. Again, we are in the early stages of this. We don't yet know whether this was someone affiliated with the house of worship, whether this was someone specifically targeting the Islamic faith, specifically targeting someone there.
A lot of questions, but authorities come in this with their eyes wide open, leave everything on the table until they start narrowing down the identity, narrowing down the motive.
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HUNT: All right. Stand by for us, Josh. And of course, let us know as you get more reporting on this live unfolding situation.
I want to check in now with Jonathan Wackrow. He is CNN law enforcement analyst and a former secret service agent.
Jonathan, thanks very much for being here.
You've, of course, been listening to our coverage. We still have few details at this hour. But of course, law enforcement, in the process of responding to this still this enormous, overwhelming presence.
What are some of the things that you would be thinking about? Were you one of the people responding here? JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Well, the first thing
that comes to mind is that this is a, you know, a house of worship. And what we've seen is that houses of worship, regardless of the religion, are targets of opportunity. And the reason being is they represent soft targets. Combined with this, you know, symbolic significance and open access. That makes them really an attractive target. You know, for a hostile actor.
And again, we're seeing that happen today. So when you see this overwhelming police response, that's not a coincidence. That is by design, because they know that these attacks oftentimes are very well- planned. You typically see some sort of pre-attack surveillance and monitoring before an attack to understand the very specific points of vulnerability.
Law enforcement knows this. So they rehearse and they work with houses of worship across the country to really coordinate. What a response like this would look like. And it's even more critical when you have this house of worship associated with a school. So you now have children that are there. So that brings a different dynamic that law enforcement has to be aware of. They most likely have trained with this, you know, with this location among many others in the area on how active shooter, hostile aggressor response would look like by law enforcement.
But right now, it sounds like the emergent and critical phases are over. So, now, we're starting to go into that recovery phase. Still, as Josh was saying, there's a lot we do not know. We don't know what's going on inside the building. Most likely theyre doing their secondary and third searches to ensure that there are no other threats that are present.
But also at the same time, this is a crime scene. So they've got to start preserving all items of evidentiary value. They need to try to identify who this individual is to ensure that there's no secondary attack, either at this location or any other house of worship in the area.
HUNT: Yeah. Jonathan, thank you very much for that. Stand by for me.
I want to go back to Josh Campbell, who has some more breaking information about the unfolding nature of this investigation -- Josh.
CAMPBELL: Well, we're learning for clarity. We were talking earlier about the person that we reported was indeed killed in the shooting. We're learning that that was a victim. So we're again, trying to gather additional information about whether anyone else may have been impacted. We're also now learning that in addition to just this massive wave of law enforcement that we've seen show up, the ATF is now on scene as well. According to that agency, special agents from their Los Angeles division there in San Diego surged to this area. They bring a lot to the table in a shooting investigation because one question will be obviously, what type of firearm was used here? Was it obtained legally?
And that is something that the ATF will work to determine. They can actually analyze a firearm, analyze the actual ammunition, compare that to other firearms and ammunition that it has in this massive database to determine whether this was used in any other potential crime in the past. They do what's called firearm tracing again, to try to determine the legality of this individual actually obtaining that weapon.
Why is that important? Because if this person is indeed alive and will be charged, that could be an additional charge. Whether the person has been neutralized by law enforcement in the sense that theyre no longer alive, there will be a question about how they got the weapon, and if indeed, as we've seen in past cases, someone assisted this person unlawfully in doing that, they could face potential legal jeopardy as well.
Again, those are all possibilities. We don't have any indication that that will indeed happen. But all of those resources now on scene as they move from the emergent phase, authorities saying the suspect is neutralized now very much into the investigation in earnest to determine who this person was, why he did it, and rule out whether anyone else was involved.
HUNT: Yeah. So, Josh, just to circle back and recap, as we've been having this conversation live for anyone that may just be joining us, you've reported that the San Diego police have said, one, the threat at the Islamic center of San Diego has been neutralized. You've also reported here that there is one victim, and this someone, the victim of the person who was the aggressor here.
Can you talk a little bit about the threats that have been facing houses of worship? And I think its worth underscoring here that that this center is the site not just of a mosque, not just a place of worship, but also a school.
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So many nervous parents, we've seen video of them waiting and some people being escorted away as well. Can you talk a little bit about what these houses of worship, whether its a mosque, whether its a synagogue, other places in our heightened political environment, what they have been doing to respond, what kind of presence may have been at this mosque to meet somebody who wished to do others harm?
CAMPBELL: Yeah. No, its important question, because we are indeed this elevated threat environment. Obviously, we have been for some time. Its something that authorities have warned, warned about this kind of toxic political climate that were in. Obviously, we've been reporting on just the surge of anti-semitism in this country, which is off the charts. But the FBI and other agencies also warning that other faiths to include the Islamic faith's threats as well. And that is something that across the board will concern authorities.
In fact, over the course of about the last three and a half years, whenever we would see reports that law enforcement has beefed up security at a particular Jewish house of worship and a lot of places, they would also do the same out of an abundance of caution for Islamic houses of worship in various cities as well, just because the threats are indeed elevated. And again, all it takes is one individual that may be inspired by some type of hatred to obtain a firearm, which is very easy to do in this country, to then go and try to inflict some -- some type of violence.
And so this is something that authorities have been certainly working to try to quell. One thing that is important that authorities will also be working to do after they identify this person is determine is this someone who was on their radar in the past? Is this someone who potentially made threats against either this particular institution, the Islamic center of San Diego, maybe threats to Muslims in general, other organizations across the country? Is this someone that they knew that they investigate who this person was? Or is this someone who was entirely off any radar?
And this may have been their first potential act of violence, that they go and try to perpetrate, which is obviously much more difficult to try to stop if there hasn't been some type of pattern of threats actually made. But nevertheless, that is a big question as well. Did any law enforcement agency in this country know who this person was, and did this person actually have some type of criminal past?
HUNT: Hmm. Really good points all and I want to bring this in as well. This according to a CNN affiliate KFMB this is reporting. You can find it on CNN.com that a retiree who lives close to the Islamic center of San Diego says that he was eating lunch at his home when he heard a spate of gunfire come from the direction of the mosque, he noted. There's also, of course, a school there.
The retiree told our CNN affiliate that he heard two more rounds of gunfire. He said they sounded like they came from a semi-automatic weapon. After calling 911, he waited and then saw the swarm of ambulances. So, this again, an account, not an eyewitness, but someone who heard this unfolding situation earlier. That's what they told our CNN affiliate.
Josh Campbell, that seems to at least confirm that, and I know you had reported that there was a shooting incident here. Now we have this person telling us that they heard what sounded to them like semi- automatic fire.
CAMPBELL: That's right. And all of those eyewitnesses and ear- witnesses will be important. Again, authorities are would first be trying to identify any threat that's there, which they now say has been neutralized. But then also what's been happening, and I'll remind our viewers, the images that you're seeing of law enforcement going into the building, we put that on a delay for officer safety. We don't want to be telegraphing what officer tactical teams are about to do, but we've seen them going through that building, and that's because they have to rule out whether there indeed any additional shooters that are there as well.
And, you know, if there is additional gunfire, obviously they'll vector towards the sound of that. But absent that, they have to rule it out. But as you mentioned, authorities will be working to try to determine how many shots may have been fired, and then obviously trying to determine the full extent of any potential victims that may have been there.
One thing that authorities will do once they arrive on the scene, the forensic examiners after the scene is determined there's no longer a threat. It's tried to identify every single round of ammunition that this person fired when a firearm fires a bullet, then ejects a shell casing, which authorities will then identify, they'll label again to try to count to determine how many shots were actually fired, and if to the extent that they can, the direction that every single one of those shots went as well.
You know, some situations and this happens, I can tell you, even as a law enforcement officer, if a law enforcement officer fires their weapon, they'll work to determine is there any potential that the round of ammunition went beyond this target?
You know, somewhere else in and around that area as well? So they just want to try to rule all of that out. We know that a lot of businesses, schools, other houses of worship around that area were placed into lockdown immediately after that happened as authorities tried to determine exactly what happened.
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No word of any potential victims outside of that law enforcement cordon there, but a lot of work that they still have to do, both physically and as obviously investigatively.
HUNT: Absolutely. And of course, we have more information now coming in from eyewitness accounts. And as Josh referred to them, ear witness accounts, a witness, a woman who lives across the street from the Islamic center of San Diego. She lives there with her husband and two daughters, says she was eating lunch in her kitchen when she heard explosions. Her word outside.
She went upstairs to her daughter's bedroom, and she looked out the window. She says she saw children playing outside at the Islamic centers playground, and she saw them start heading into the building. The woman called 911, and while she was on the phone with emergency services, she says she saw a uniformed officer be shot.
This is what she told us, quote, he received two or three impacts and then he fell. And 911 asked me if he was okay and I said yes. He just stood up. I told them to hurry up because there are so many kids, she said.
She then subsequently called her husband and her 12 year old daughter's school, which was just a few blocks away, and she says that school remained on lockdown. Again, this a -- an eyewitness speaking with CNN.
So, Josh, what does that additional texture here, this her being able to go up to her bedroom window, look out the window, see a man in uniform be shot. He gets up there are also in her purview, children that are leaving a playground and going into the building.
CAMPBELL: Someone who was actually there, you know, seeing what happened. That does raise the question about whether the person that may have been struck here and killed were obviously referring to this person as a victim, whether that was a member of the security team that was there at the mosque. This eyewitness describing the person as well, wearing some type of uniform, if indeed we're talking about a law enforcement style uniform, that would make sense.
It's unclear whether this is an area that San Diego police routinely patrols on site. We know that theyre obviously going around houses of worship in order to patrol, but we do know, because of the heightened threat environment that we're in, Islamic centers, Jewish, the members of the Jewish faith will often have full time security on site just because of the elevated -- elevated threat environment and just the range of potential threats that we've seen.
But as you mentioned, this information that were continuing to get from people who were there, who were hearing things, who were seeing things, that providing important insight for us, but also will be very critical for this investigation.
HUNT: Yeah. So, Josh Campbell is going to, of course, continue reporting. We're getting additional eyewitness information in here to CNN. One person speaking to our cameras there on the ground outside the Islamic center of San Diego.
Let's watch.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- that are so young. I can't even imagine what theyre going through right now. And not exactly sure how many people have been hit or how many people have been killed.
REPORTER: Did you get any word as to where the shooter was?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- I just heard that they said that they had infiltrated the inside of the building. I wasn't sure exactly. I could hear the officers shouting to evacuate in the background. And it was, you know, paralyzing and, and so frightening. And at the same time, you know, I had to drop everything and come directly to make sure, you know, our community is safe and theyre okay. And they know that theyre not alone, and this really insane time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Josh Campbell, what do you make of what she said there? And of course, you know, as we look at just the enormous response presence, we've now had two eyewitness accounts that have spoken of the small children that were in this space, in this area as this shooting incident was unfolding. That might give us a little bit, unfortunately, of an explanation for why this response looks the way that it does.
And of course, were still waiting to understand fully what the ramifications might be.
CAMPBELL: No. That's right. I mean, its heartbreaking to think that the number of small children now impacted and this, you know, coast to coast in this country, we see this on any given day, even if someone is not impacted physically by violence, there's huge emotional trauma that will often result as well.
And again, we're hearing those stories. We've been seeing the congregants being brought out there. At least we did earlier by law enforcement. You can imagine the trauma those people were feeling, just trying to make sure that that, you know, themselves were safe and people that they knew were safe.
We are getting some new information on who the actual victim was here that we believe was shot by an active shooter there at the situation. The chairman of this mosque is telling "The New York Times" that the person was killed, was a security guard who worked there on site. And that, of course, tracks with what we heard earlier from the eyewitness who said that, it appears that that person was wearing some type of uniform.
[16:30:06]
Again, the new information appears that that person, according to the mosque, was a security guard. And, you know, obviously, in this heightened threat environment, it's often -- they are the front line of defense for people who are simply trying to go about their day and worship as they see that, as they choose to do. We're in an era where oftentimes these organizations have to have their own security. And here, tragically, we are hearing that it was indeed a security guard who then fell victim to gunfire here.
Of course, we don't yet know if this is if there was some type of engagement with the shooter or whether this person was targeted, whether the security officer, whether the person that fired him, the security officer was then responding. And, you know, obviously, tragically, life taken in this incident.
But that critical piece of new information, we don't yet know if there were any additional victims that may have been inside as well. As of right now, no reports of any additional injuries. And critically, we're not seeing the influx of ambulances that we often, you know, sadly see in mass shooting type situations.
But a critical piece of information there, the person who was indeed shot. And it just shows you, you know, why in this era of political, the toxic political climate, why these houses of worship even need security? Because sadly, no place in this country is immune from gun violence.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean, it's -- honestly, it's hard to keep the reaction off of -- it's hard for me to keep my reaction off of my face when you say that its good news that were not being swarmed by ambulances, that that's the reality in which we live, Josh, especially because this is a school and a house of worship. And these were very small children playing on the playground.
The Council for American Islamic Relations just released this statement about the school children who were inside this building. The local community leaders, of course confirmed that at least one member of the mosque was killed. Josh Campbell reporting there, citing "The New York Times" that it was a guard at the -- at the Islamic center.
Here's what CAIR had to say, quote, "We strongly condemn this horrifying act of violence at the Islamic center of San Diego. Our thoughts are with everyone impacted by this attack. No one should ever fear for their safety while attending prayers or studying at an elementary school. We are working to learn more about this incident, and we encourage everyone to keep this community in your prayers."
So, again, Josh Campbell, and this is citing the Council on American Islamic Relations with some information. A local community leader speaking with care in San Diego has confirmed at least one member of the mosque was killed. Now, of course, I don't want to make this. I don't want to make a leap and say that this these are two different people, the guard and this member of the mosque or, the same person that we are talking about here. And again, we want to make sure were sighting community leaders when we talk about this.
But it underscores, of course, the point you're making that this is obviously directly impacting this Islamic community in San Diego, but it's going to ripple through Islamic communities across the country.
CAMPBELL: That's right. And I think we can expect that various police departments across the country have passed this prelude. We will likely see additional security beefed up at various houses of worship across the country.
And that's not just of the Islamic faith we often see in these situations. If there is indeed a particular faith that is targeted, law enforcement will often provide additional patrols around, you know, various different faiths. Just out of an abundance of caution, whenever we see, sadly, an incident like this happens.
But again, you can -- that's not only the reverberation from a security standpoint, but you can imagine just the fear that, you know, Muslims in this country are likely facing right now, knowing that on any given day, just going to your house of worship, a place where school children go to learn here as well, can be rocked by gun violence. And then, you know, as we often see, sadly, so often you see these mass evacuations bringing people out.
They -- they appear traumatized again, trying to determine the status of people that they may know and love that word, Kasie, that we often hear, which always strikes me and we use it so much that law enforcement does a reunification center. I mean, that's -- that phrase has just become so commonplace in this country because we see so much gun violence. What that means is they have to have a place for people who may have been at the scene of a shooting to reunite with their loved ones, and that's what happens behind the scenes where no camera actually goes, because authorities will often try to keep the media away from that.
But that's, you know, I've been in those as a law enforcement officer, when you have family members that are reuniting with their loved ones, it is gut wrenching. Obviously, loved ones who get the news that their loved one isn't coming home -- obviously very, very terrible. But that's what authorities say is happening right now, setting up a reunification center.
[16:35:00]
And again, we hope that -- that we don't hear additional information about other potential victims, as sad as it is right now, hearing at least one fatality.
HUNT: Yeah. And worth noting, Josh, that we here at CNN have now independently confirmed that it was the security guard at the mosque who was killed. We're, of course, awaiting additional information about what else may have played out at this facility.
One question I have, Josh, I think, is I'm looking at what the local news is talking about as were taking our affiliate coverage, as there seem to be some question about where the shooter was inside or outside of the facility.
And of course, we do have here at CNN an eyewitness account of seeing someone outside, right? She's looking out her window from her house across the street, and she sees something go on there. But we're still waiting, of course, for more details from the authorities.
What does it tell you and why is this an important question of whether they were inside the building or outside the building?
CAMPBELL: Well, it's important because, you know, obviously in a situation where you have actual security, theyre not just staged inside an area, but theyre also patrolling the extent exterior as well. To the extent of house of worship even has the resources to hire security guards to do just that. I can tell you where I am here, you know, north of San Diego and Los Angeles, at various Jewish institutions, as well as Islamic institutions. You'll see a security posture that is there and meant for you to see whenever you walk by. And that in itself could potentially serve as a deterrent if someone is trying to, you know, cause, cause harm, they want you to know that security is here.
And of course, that says something else about the state of this nation that people have to have security just to go pray. But that is the question here. Was this someone whose job was to patrol the exterior saw someone who may have appeared out of place, perhaps, you know, was indeed -- and shots that were fired and this person engaged. Being outside is very critical. And we also know that in these types of houses of worship, there is often security inside as well. But of course, the major goal, if there is a threat, stop it before it even gets inside.
And here there's a lot were still waiting to hear in this situation. But obviously you imagine if a gunman is able to make it inside of a house of worship like this with multiple people to include children. I mean, I don't even want to think about, you know, the potential there. If the security guard here hadn't had appears to have intervened.
But we know the suspect now neutralized. We're awaiting additional information on that person. Again, the main question we have right now is what was the motive? Why did this person decide to do this? And, you know, this act of violence that has obviously rocked this community and Muslims across the country.
HUNT: It absolutely has. And, Josh, we also have this just in here to CNN. The FBI has said they are assisting law enforcement in the wake of this mosque shooting, to be expected. I imagine the FBI said, quote, this is an active and fluid scene and that they are, quote, assessing the situation.
What does that tell you?
CAMPBELL: So the FBI, San Diego field office, its own FBI division responsible for the southern California. They have a -- they have terrorism squads there, much like other FBI field offices across the country. And in this instance, one big question will be, what was this person motivated by? Was this indeed an act of political violence which would then fall within the range of terrorism? Was this a hate crime, which is indeed a violation of federal law?
Obviously, there won't be a prosecution if indeed the suspect was killed here. Either in exchange of gunfire or at the persons own hand. But nevertheless, we see the FBI getting involved just by the very nature of the target that we're talking about here, a Muslim house of worship, which is certainly within their remit to investigate, but also just as important, what we've seen in situations.
I mean, think about the recent shooter at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, where this is something that happened in Washington, D.C., but very quickly they determined there was a California nexus to this person. And so the FBI picks up the phone, calls, their field office here in the L.A. area and says, hey, we need your help. That is often the case in a situation like this, as well as we learn more about who this person was, if indeed determines that there were clues, information about this person that may emanate from out of state, either their address, their associates, the FBI is spread out across this country, and they can quickly jump into action to try to assist local investigators there with trying to determine who this person was and where the investigation goes from here.
HUNT: Steve Moore, I think, is still with us. And, Josh, thank you.
He's going to stand by because he's got some more reporting to do.
Steve, can I just ask for your analysis. Weve got kind of gotten a few more pieces of information coming in here, as you've been standing by during our coverage, namely that we have confirmed that there's been one fatality, at least one victim, and it was a security guard at the mosque. The presence of such a guard, of course, a sign of the polarized times that we live in.
[16:40:07]
MOORE: Yeah, yeah. And that's -- that's one of the tragic things that, as you've discussed that in the world we live in. But at the same time not having the security guard may have resulted in more fatalities that whether or not the guard was tragically lost, he probably delayed the shooter. I responded to a Jewish community center years ago, that had no guards. And there was nothing to slow the shooter down. And so the person is, is -- did their job, sadly as well as they could.
The other thing about being a security guard at one of these potential targets is that you're wearing a uniform and you are frequently posted at a certain place. It, and as josh mentions, there will be patrols, but at other times you're going to be, at a -- at a specific location that makes you the first target.
A lot of organizations I've seen are now going to, plainclothes security people so that they aren't the first -- the first fatalities and then the shooter goes into the facility, keeping them un-uniformed actually puts some doubt into the shooter's mind.
HUNT: So in a situation like this, and again, we are piecing together information from eyewitnesses, from authorities. You've talked a little bit about a guard in uniform, potentially not in uniform. We've got this question about whether the shooter was inside or outside the building.
There were eyewitness reports that there were children playing outside the building. So potentially, you know, either way, there could have been fatalities inside or outside. But from a security perspective, if you're thinking about this, if you're a house of worship, where are you putting whether your guards are in uniform or plain clothes, do they need to be patrolling the hallways? Do they need to be posted outside? What -- what is the difference? And why does it matter if the person was able to access, you know, the inside of the building, perhaps without, you know, in the absence of a confrontation with an armed guard outside?
MOORE: No, that's -- that's a very valid point. Casey. I think, strategy needs to be looked at. Protective strategy needs to be looked at. I think the wise organizations are now setting up a perimeter of locked doors to delay the -- to delay obviously glass doors and things like that are not going to prevent a shooter from getting there.
But if you delay them two to three minutes, that gives time for the police to arrive. It also lets you save your people. Inside and even your security guard inside can return fire outside without being an immediate victim.
So if the shooter and the security guard had their confrontation inside that's one issue. It's a totally different strategic situation. If the security guard confronted the shooter outside, that would be a much better indication going forward that their, their procedures worked to a certain extent. And, at that point, you have to decide what the best way is for the security guard to engage a potential threat.
HUNT: Yeah. All right, Steve, stand by for me.
I want to go back to Josh Campbell with some additional breaking news -- Josh. CAMPBELL: Well, this is indeed breaking. And I'll warn our viewers
that this information is based on a preliminary investigation. As we often see in these cases, some information can shift. But at least as we're learning right now, critical new information sources telling our colleagues, John Miller and Mark Morales that it appears in addition to the security guard victim who was shot here in the situation, two men were found near the mosque, believed to be suspects. Both appear to be dead from self-inflicted wounds.
So again, we have the security guard who law enforcement and mosque officials say was killed in this incident. Law enforcement sources now telling CNN that also nearby the mosque, there were two men believed to be suspects. They believe that they died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds.
Now, of course, that raises a whole series of questions. The first of all, if indeed it turns out that there are two suspects, that is almost never the case in a situation like this involving any type of mass shooting. We have indeed seen them.
I mean, you look several years ago here near where I am in L.A., in the San Bernardino terrorist attack.
[16:45:02]
That was a man in a wife that conducted that attack. That was too. But rarely, rarely is that the case.
But here, we're learning from law enforcement sources telling John Miller, Mark Morales, it appears two suspects, both died from self- inflicted gunshot wounds. Of course, the big question for authorities now trying to fully identify who these people were, the questions you and I were talking about earlier still stand. And that is, first of all, ruling out whether they were affiliated at all with this mosque, which may not be the case at all. This mosque may have been targeted specifically because these people were trying to target people of the Muslim faith.
HUNT: Yeah.
CAMPBELL: Does that is something authorities are trying to determine right now, trying to. They would try to identify them and then try to determine if there's any indication of what the motive might have been.
HUNT: All right, Josh Campbell, I'm going to let you make some additional phone calls, but we may be back with you in just a moment. Again, Josh is at new reporting there. Two men were found dead nearby, believed to be suspects.
I do as we wait for more information to come in here from our law enforcement sources and analysts, I want to talk a little bit with our political panel, which, you know, we had planned to have a different conversation today. But as is too often the case in America, we find ourselves instead covering a situation where there are Americans, children under threat. And, David Axelrod, I mean, I think we need to be careful in that. We
don't know what the motive of these people are yet. But this at the same time, no matter who committed this crime, this is a house of worship. These are people who went to pray, who went to study, who went about their daily lives, and who are instead confronted by this.
And it does raise questions about the not just not just the problem we have with gun violence, random gun violence in America, but the problem we have with targeted political violence and religious based violence in America.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to do what we do too, so often and jump into recriminations. And I think we should take a moment to say how profoundly sad this is, but also how sad it is that it is no longer uncommon to hear these stories. We're sort of numbed to it in some ways. It is a sickness in our society, and we need to recognize that instead of adjust to the new reality.
HUNT: I think it's important to make sure that we're not numb to this. And I certainly --
AXELROD: No, I'm not suggesting you are --
HUNT: No. And but -- I think that you're I think you're making an extraordinarily good point.
AXELROD: Yeah. I mean, but obviously the heated nature of our -- of our discourse and social media has contributed a great deal to that. Our politicians have mirrored that, creates an environment in which these things become more common.
And we as a society have to decide and we, our leaders have to decide, is this an acceptable price to pay, to make -- you know, points I hope that we can pull back from the abyss, but --
HUNT: David Urban, I mean, I'm thinking of, you know, you obviously have a background where you fought for our country. You know what its like to be in a situation where you're expecting or potentially prepared for violence to unfold. You and I were both attending the White House Correspondents' Dinner, and I was struck by what you said about the difference. And in that case, there were so many federal law enforcement agents ready to jump to the defense of the president and everyone else in that room. It's not the same as being in one of these vulnerable situations where you are not in defended by people you don't know who is coming to help you.
But you know, a little bit now about the difference between being prepared for violence and, and not being prepared to take it on and what that means for Americans.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Axe is right. There's -- the price that America pays for this, it's too high a toll, regardless of this is people who worked at the mosque or its political violence, violence in general in America is just out of control. And I'm not quite sure why there's -- there was always -- there's always been, you know, there's always been assassinations, political assassinations go the beginning of our country, right?
But somehow, somewhere along the way, its gotten, you know, exponentially worse. I'm not sure if it was the Menendez brothers or columbine, but somewhere along the way, something changed, right? And it just became so much more prevalent to at this point. Every day you turn on the television and there's some new tragedy and people kind of click the channel and move on, you know, before people would be glued to it.
I'm not sure if it's social media. I'm not sure what's changed in society that's made it okay to express yourself like this, to go in and do violence against somebody, whether it's for politically motivated or whether its mental illness, whether it's religiously motivated. Something has gone wrong in our country, we need to address not just as Democrats or Republicans, but as human beings.
[16:50:04]
HUNT: As humans.
I want to bring Charles Blow and Leigh Ann Caldwell into our conversation in just a moment. But first, Josh Campbell, you've got some new information about who these two men who were found dead are?
CAMPELL: Or where they are. And that's actually important because, you know, we were discussing earlier based on our new reporting, that they believe two suspects were found nearby, both from self-inflicted gunshot wounds. We're hearing from sources telling our colleague Mark Morales they were believed to have been in a vehicle there near the mosque. And that is important because, as we were discussing earlier, if indeed a shooter or now multiple shooters arrive in a vehicle, that will be key to try to identify who these people were, if indeed they have no type of identification that are on them, as we've seen in some situations.
I have to be honest. You know, as I was saying earlier, we rarely hear of two people involved in what appears to be some type of attack like this. Again, we don't know the motive, whether this was someone who was targeting the mosque because of its faith, whether it was targeting someone there, whether it was someone actually associated with the Islamic Center, we get a lot of questions that we don't have.
But, you know, as a former investigator, when you hear two people now allegedly complicit in some type of attack, that raises a series of questions that authorities are still trying to get the answers to right now. But again, we understand that one security guard was killed, and then two men were found in a nearby vehicle from, apparently died from self-inflicted wounds.
HUNT: Josh, we've just had a video released on social media from the imam, Taha Hassane. And I apologize if I'm mispronouncing her name -- his name. The video says this, quote, "I wanted to send this message to the entire Muslim community in San Diego. Hamdallah, we are safe. The entire school is safe. All the kids, all the staff, all the teachers are safe." And it looks like we have the video actually that the imam put out on social media. So let's watch that. We'll talk about it on the other side
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IMAM TAHA HASSANE, DIRECTOR, ISLAMIC CENTER OF SAN DIEGO: (SPEAKING ARABIC).
This is Imam Taha from the Islamic Center of San Diego. I wanted to send this message to the entire Muslim community in San Diego. Alhamdulillah, we are safe. The entire school is safe. All the kids, all the staff and the teachers are safe out of the Islamic center.
We have few casualties not confirmed yet. There is no threat at this moment, but we want everyone to stay away from the Islamic Center of San Diego. We are closed for the rest of the day. Stay safe, stay at home, and make a lot of prayers and a lot of time.
(SPEAKING ARABIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, Josh, he says theyre both that all the kids, all the staff and the teachers are safe, but also adds we have a few casualties not confirmed yet.
CAMPBELL: That's right. In the latter part is we're still trying to sort out. We've been reporting, obviously, on the security guard that was killed. But now with this new reporting that two potential suspects were also there on site it's difficult to understand what the number refers to there fully with casualties.
But nevertheless, great news that were hearing there from the Islamic leaders saying that none of the staff were impacted, none of the children, none of you know, the families that were there worshiping, obviously, you know, based on the footage that we saw, the helicopters, just the sheer number of people that were coming out of that building, you can imagine just how catastrophic this could have been if you had someone making their way inside that building with the intent on causing as much life, loss of life as possible.
Again, we don't yet know why this went the way it did. Did the security guard confront the suspects? And then they fled? I have to tell you, I mean, the fact that they appear to have died, both from self-inflicted gunshot wounds, raises a ton of questions. We just, I don't think are anywhere near close to answering right now.
But obviously, your heart goes out to the members of the congregation there knowing that according to the imam there, that it appears everyone that was there, members of the faith community as well as the children are now safe.
HUNT: Yeah. No, very, very important.
All right. Josh, let's keep working. I'm going to -- I want to turn at Charles just, you know, as we are heading toward the top of the hour here, and you know, thinking through this and to Josh's point, some very strange circumstances here. We don't know the motive yet for these two, but it underscores, as we were discussing the nature of life in America today and raises so many questions about how it is that we got here and why this happened so often.
CHARLES BLOW, POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. I will disagree just a little with these really smart men on the other side of the table. I don't think it's about sickness. I think this is a policy failure.
Other countries have people who are angry. Other countries have people who are disgruntled. Other countries have people with political agendas. Only we have this.
In -- as of April, we had 121 mass shootings in America.
[16:55:00]
That's just a third of the year. I understand your point that, you know, we can't afford to be desensitized to it. You -- we're human beings. We can't help it. It happens. You know, multiple times a month.
And the only thing that could stop this from happening is policy, which we refuse to engage. Instead, we say, put a bunch of security guards at your church. We say it is okay to sell our children bulletproof backpacks. That's a policy failure.
HUNT: I'm sorry to cut you off, Charles, but we've got a news conference unfolding here live in San Diego that we're going to listen in to. Let's watch.
SCOTT WAHL, SAN DIEGO POLICE CHIEF: Both suspects in this case are deceased. All of the kids are safe. Our hearts go out to the families that are in this moment, being notified of what has happened to their loved ones. We have three confirmed adults that are deceased at the Islamic center.
There is a lot of preliminary information that were going to try to highlight and cover, but understand it's going to take us some time to get accurate information out to everyone.
Here's what we know so far, at about 11:43, we received a call of an active shooter at the Islamic center. Within four minutes, officers arrived on scene and observed immediately three deceased, what appeared to be deceased victims out in front. They immediately began to deploy with an active shooter response into the mosque and adjacent school.
At about the same time, we began to receive calls from just a couple blocks away that we had more active gunfire. Officers were also responding to that call for service at the same time.
There was a landscaper that was doing his work that was shot at. And fortunately was not hit. That was at about the 7100 block of Salerno, which is just a couple blocks from here. Moments later, at the 3800 block of Hatton, officers were called to that location where they found a vehicle in the middle of the street with who we believe to be the shooter in this incident, both deceased.
The circumstances that led up to this. And the details of what happened in exactly which time it happened, will come out in the days ahead. I can tell you, this is in 28 years, this is the most dynamic and impressive response that I have ever seen in policing. We have every single police officer available throughout our county that dropped what theyre doing and did exactly what theyre trained to do, run towards gunfire.
I could not be more proud and I cannot express the gratitude. The willingness to step into harms way in a moment like this and I tell you what got me. Watching the kids come running out just thankful to be alive.
I want to bring up Mark Remily from the FBI. Because of the Islamic center location, we are considering this a hate crime until it's not. And at this point, were going to work closely with the FBI to make sure that we are matching all the resources that we need for this investigation.
So, Mark?
MARK REMILY, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, SAN DIEGO FIELD OFFICE: Thank you, chief. Good afternoon. My name is Mark Remily. I'm the special agent in charge of the FBI's San Diego field office.
Today, the FBI responded to assist our local law enforcement partners at the Islamic Center of San Diego. This was based on reports of an active shooter. As the chief said, what we know at this time that there are three deceased adult males.
