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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump DOJ Expands Settlement To Bar IRS From Auditing Trump; Vance Won't Rule Out Compensating Jan. 6 Rioters Who Assaulted Cops; Now: Key Primaries In Six States Again Test Trump's Grip On GOP. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 19, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. We start this hour with breaking news. President Donald Trump has struck a deal with his own government, one that would protect him and his family from some investigations.
Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's good to have you with us on this Tuesday.
Just moments ago, we learned that the IRS has banned itself from ever investigating or pursuing claims against learned that the IRS has banned itself from ever investigating or pursuing claims against Donald Trump, his family, his businesses, or their affiliates for any past tax issues. This coming as part of the settlement to end the president's $10 billion lawsuit over the leaking of his tax returns years ago.
That stunning development, coming on the heels of Vice President J.D. Vance refusing to rule out giving taxpayer money -- your money to people convicted of crimes related to January 6th as part of the administration's new $1.8 billion so-called Weaponization Compensation Fund.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- about. This is about compensating Americans for the lawfare that we saw under the last administration. The people that would get the money are people, some of whom have been prosecuted completely disproportionate to any crime they've ever committed. Circumstances, let's say a person is accused, let's say, hypothetically, a person is accused of doing something that they never actually did, that they got a kangaroo court, that they had a judge who mistreated them. I think that we should look at those things case by case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: That's the vice president of the United States suggesting calling the courts kangaroo courts, the courts that convicted more than 1,200 people for crimes related to January 6th. He suggested that it was judges who mistreated the rioters. Some of them were found guilty of felonies after hunting for lawmakers in the halls of the Capitol.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
HUNT: So to be clear, the Trump administration is not saying that January 6th, rioters will receive taxpayer money, just that they're eligible to apply for it. But let's remember, one of the first things that Donald Trump did after being sworn into office last year was to issue full pardons to almost everyone involved and to commute the sentences of people convicted of seditious conspiracy.
And under the terms outlined by the Department of Justice, it is President Trump who will have final say over the people chosen by his acting attorney general, who get to decide whether a convicted rioter gets a payout.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Are there going to be rules that say that if you've assaulted a Capitol Hill police officer or committed a violent crime, you will not be eligible? Why not make that a rule?
TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: I expect that -- well, because I'm not one of the commissioners setting up the rules. I expect --
VAN HOLLEN: You're appointing four of the five members, aren't you, Mr. Attorney General?
BLANCHE: Pardon me?
VAN HOLLEN: You're appointing four of the five members.
BLANCHE: I'm appointing all five members.
VAN HOLLEN: You can certainly set up the rules
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
My panel is here. CNN political commentator, host of the "Off the Cupp" podcast, S.E. Cupp; CNN political analyst, host, editorial director at "Vox", Astead Herndon; the executive chair of the New York State Democratic Committee, Christine Quinn; and former Republican congressman from Michigan, Peter Meijer.
We're also joined by former Trump attorney, Bill Brennan.
Welcome to all of you.
S.E. Cupp, I want to start with you on this. I just -- you know, I was at the capitol complex the day that this happened. And, this is, of course, doesn't just apply to people in this situation. There are others that the Trump administration has as part of the pool of people who can apply to have taxpayer money applied to their situation. But when I think about the capitol police officers who were there that
day, who were beaten by some of these people who rioted, the idea that the government is then going to compensate those people with money collected by taxes just strikes me as a remarkable situation, even in the context of the remarkable situation that is the entirety of the second Trump term.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. These -- this is sort of injury after injury, after injury to insults. Right. What happened on January 6th has been completely transformed by the right by in some cases, people who condemned it on the day and then decided to whitewash it.
They went from insurrectionists to patriots. Then they were pardoned. Now they're victims of a system. Where is the compensation for like, the health care workers that were maligned by Trump, Anthony Fauci, and nameless folks who got death threats were maligned during COVID by the Trump administration or the Ruby Freemans and Shaye Mosses. The election workers who were maligned by this administration and had to move, had to hide from for their lives because of what the Trump administration did.
If we're assessing the damage, okay, of the last four, eight, 10 years, I think that a lot of people probably deserve some of this money.
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But my question is, who gets to approve all of this? Is Congress going to -- going to decide this is the power of the purse. This is taxpayer dollars. We need to approve this.
Is this going to go up to a Supreme Court fight? Because there's so much wrong with what is happening in this slush fund decision from the slush fund itself to the decision to make Donald Trump's tax issues just completely immune, going on going, going forward. I mean, it's insanity. This is not what Americans signed up for. This is not what they expect from their government.
HUNT: Yeah. I think it's worth underscoring that it's for members that are named by the attorney general, Blanche. There's one with congressional suggestion. That's five people that are going to get to decide. And yes, Blanche said in that clip we played, he'll appoint all five. And Trump, of course, has complete control. Can fire any of them.
Let's listen to a little bit more of what J.D. Vance had to say today as he was pressed about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: You've got to actually look at this stuff and figure out what were they accused of. Maybe they did something bad even, but what they were accused of was way worse of what they actually did. Maybe they had their entire lives ruined in a totally disproportionate way. You know who never, ever gets an ounce of sympathy when it comes to that disproportionate sentencing is people who voted for Donald Trump and participated in the January 6th protests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Congressman Meijer, is protest the right word for what we saw?
PETER MEIJER (R), FORMER MICHIGAN CONGRESSMAN: I think it's important to make a distinction between the folks who were violent and assaulted law enforcement officers and other folks who were at the Capitol on January 6th.
HUNT: Was there a protest going on? Yes, sure.
MEIJER: There was a protest. There was a riot.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: People broke into the Capitol.
MEIJER: There were folks who had like kind of more concrete, malign intentions. All of that was occurring simultaneously. And everything gets written with a broad brush, especially when you think about the pardons, right? I think there are folks who absolutely deserved to be pardoned. There were also people who should not have been pardoned.
If you assaulted law enforcement, you should not have received a pardon that was wrong. Anybody who assaulted law enforcement should not be eligible to receive funds from this. That is wrong.
HUNT: Why can't the vice president say that?
MEIJER: There's a political argument where you don't want to get ahead, you don't want to create constrictions. You don't want to be accused, you know, down the line.
To be honest, I think -- well, Congress is not appropriating funds for this. This is a, you know, a revolving fund. That's the victims compensation fund. That's where it's coming out of. So they don't need to approve this.
They will need to approve the reauthorization of it. And if it is a Democratic house, you know, come January of 2027, I don't think that a shutdown involving the DOJ would be good.
HUNT: All right. I want to bring in our chief legal correspondent here at CNN, Paula Reid. Paula has been reporting on the IRS deal that was just made. Paula, can you walk us through that so we can kind of dig into that too?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Kasie, we knew from our conversations with sources last week that potentially shielding the president and his businesses from audits was something that was being discussed in negotiations between the Trump Justice Department and Trump's personal lawyers as a way to resolve the settlement. But this sort of belated announcement of this blanket protection, saying the IRS cannot ever bring claims against the president, his family or businesses for past tax issues. This is going to raise more questions about self-dealing, because we
know, of course, the president controls all the administrative agencies within the executive branch that have overseen the terms of this settlement and to the average taxpayer, the idea that you would get nearly $1.8 billion and, yes, yes, yes, the acting attorney general says anyone can apply, but it appears that this is largely designed to help the president's allies. Now you're shielded from IRS claims. This may not sit well with taxpayers.
We've already seen that this fund is facing bipartisan blowback. And then also adding this protection from the IRS. Going to raise more questions, Kasie, but we know this is something that had been part of the talks all along.
HUNT: All right. Paula Reid reporting for us -- Paula, thank you very much.
Astead Herndon, have we ever seen anything like this in the history of our republic?
ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It feels unfathomable in its blatancy. But I'm also go back to the campaign trail in 2024. I remember standing outside a federal prison in D.C. after Trump was indicted, and I was talking to some of the January 6th prisoners who and their families who held vigils there every night. And they expected Donald Trump to do exactly this when he came back into office.
And in some ways, it's a sick version of promises made, promises kept. He made an explicit overture, CPAC after CPAC, to these families, even as it was politically unpopular. He's returning it even as his approval ratings sink, even as Americans don't want him to do this, even as he's focusing on ballrooms where most people want him focusing on rising prices.
Donald Trump is obsessed with the rewriting of January history because he sees it as his own story being rewritten, to delegitimize the Justice Department helps him because he has been a target of those prosecutions.
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And so, these people are benefiting because of that. He's exonerating himself through them.
HUNT: Christine Quinn, Democrats, shall we say, have already shown considerable excitement to get out and vote in the midterm elections. What does it say that this is how the president is spending his time right now?
CHRISTINE QUINN, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE OFFICER, WIN: I mean, this is just an outrageous behavior on part of the president. You know, we all say all the time, no one is above the law. Well, the president just made not just himself, but his family and his business associates. God knows how far that circle will go out above the law as it relates to the IRS. We've never seen anything like this before. I mean, it is -- HUNT: Just to play devil's advocate a little bit. I mean, President
Biden left office by giving his son a blanket pardon --
QUINN: For -- absolutely. And I don't think he should have done that. And it was for a singular act. This is for -- we don't even know what. And it's beyond one person.
HUNT: It wasn't for a singular act, though. I mean, it was a blanket -- entirely. I mean, anything that Hunter Biden has ever done in his life he was pardoned for.
QUINN: But you look here, we don't even know what is under this with the IRS. And it's for a whole list of individuals. Then you look at the $1.8 billion, these are the same people who just a few months ago, froze food stamps, literally were willing to take food out of the mouths of poor children. And now they can come up with almost $2 billion to pay back their cronies who literally beat up police officers.
It is just downright un-American, particularly from a party that used to stand up for law enforcement.
HUNT: Bill Brennan, I think you were trying to get in there.
WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I was just going to say that, Kasie, it wasn't just Hunter Biden. And you're correct. It was for anything and everything that he's ever done. It was his -- the president's siblings, the presidents family. So, this is not uncharted territory in a macro sense.
HUNT: Does that make it right, I guess in any situation, right, is the question?
BRENNAN: No, I'm not -- I'm not making that argument. I'm simply pointing out that to say this is unprecedented for a president to pardon his family is incorrect. And the other point I'd make is that we don't know yet if one-sixers are going to apply. I assume they will. We don't know if they're going to be paid.
HUNT: Wouldn't you, if the government was like, hey, have some money like?
BRENNAN: I predict they will apply. I think the first payout, if there is a payout made, will one-sixer if it's as the congressman said, if it's in that subset of people who interacted with law enforcement in a sort of way, I think it's going to create a firestorm.
But we don't know if that's going to happen. I mean, we're really doing a lot of presuming here, and I think it's important to remember how this started. The president filed on behalf of himself as a private citizen, a large request, a $10 billion lawsuit for the leak of his returns.
This was part of a settlement of that. And this fund has been created, but nobody has paid it out yet. I paid a dime yet. It will be interesting to see what happens. And I think that, frankly, somebody made the point. Well, what about people that would claim that, you know, like Dr. Fauci, like I've been harmed? I think he could apply.
I don't think there's a -- I don't think that there's a prohibition, or a condition precedent that you be a Trump ally or a Republican. I think anybody who feels that they were the target --
HUNT: You know, Todd Blanche just going to pick everybody that's going to make the decisions, right?
QUINN: So like, is Tish James going to get money or is the January 6th person going to get money? And, you know, I think it's important to note with some of the Biden pardons.
BRENNAN: I think they can all apply.
QUINN: But who's going to get it when the president is, in essence, picking the commissioners?
I also think it's important to note with some of the Biden pardons before exit, and I don't think he should have done his son that the that Trump, the president elect, had threatened to prosecute for no specific or valid reasons the Biden family. So, there was some level of valid concern there.
HUNT: All right. We're out of time for this conversation. But clearly, we are going to continue to have it in the days and weeks ahead.
Bill Brennan, thank you. I love having you. See you soon, I hope.
BRENNAN: Thank you.
Coming up next, here in THE ARENA, voters head to the polls right now in half a dozen states. President Trump looks to continue his revenge against party critics, against his critics, urging Kentucky voters to oust Congressman Thomas Massie.
Coming up next, we're going to talk live with Kentucky's Democratic governor, Andy Beshear, as some of his fellow Democrats push the party to do more when it comes back, comes to fighting back against President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: I don't see Trump -- Trumpism lasting beyond Trump, period. Full stop. It's a cult of personality. With all due respect, J.D., you don't have it.
[16:15:00]
And so, I did some a little more damn optimistic. As long as we own up to our own complicity. We've been --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: MAGA is most of the Republican Party. The RINOs are gone to a large extent. A few of them are still left. So hopefully we get rid of one tonight in the form of Tom Massie, who is horrible.
I don't think he's a Republican. I think he's actually -- I think he's actually a Democrat. He's not a libertarian. You know, sometimes they say he's a -- he's really a Democrat. He votes against us all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The Republican president, Donald Trump, urging Republican voters to throw out their Republican congressman.
[16:20:06]
We are now in the final hours of voting across Kentucky, where Thomas Massie is fighting for his political survival. The president has turned him into public enemy number one with numerous clashes on key votes. And Massie's leadership around releasing the Epstein files. Democrats also have major races on ballots today and are insisting they'll fight the president on every front, including beyond 2026.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): In states like New York and New Jersey and Washington and Colorado. And we'll add on top of that, Oregon, Illinois and Maryland, we'll have at least seven states that we believe we need to respond in advance of 2028 to what they are doing in the deep south.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now is Kentucky's Democratic governor, Andy Beshear.
Governor, thank you very much for coming in THE ARENA. It's great to have you.
The leader there, of course, talking about Voting Rights Act, redistricting, some dramatic changes coming especially to African American voices and ability to be represented in Congress. I want to put it to you.
Democrats have said they'll go so far as to go after their own. Perhaps not as viciously as Donald Trump is currently going after Thomas Massie, but that's what they've posited as they take these fights on. Do you think that is the right approach for your party as you look to the future?
GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY: Well, I believe what you see in the Democratic Party is one that can be a big tent party where you don't have to agree with everyone on everything. But what you do have to agree on is that it's our job to make peoples life just a little bit better and a little less hard, that we should be the party of the American dream.
That starts with a good job, that lives in a home. That's a long life where you can see a doctor in your community, where you feel safe, where you live, and where your kids go to the best public schools. It's spending 80 percent of our time on things that matter to 100 percent of the American people.
That's how I believe the Democratic Party earns the trust of hard- working Americans back again.
HUNT: Governor, you say the argument should be you're going to make peoples lives a little bit better. Voters seem to be sending a message to their politicians that a little bit of anything isn't good enough for them. Do you think that that's enough? I mean, voters seem to be very, very angry. Do you think Democrats need to meet their anger where it is?
BESHEAR: Well, I think voters are angry because they feel that the system and the economy is rigged, that that American dream has slipped out of reach, that if you work hard and you play by the rules, you're still not getting ahead. It's that idea that you saw your parents raise you in a home. Yet the average age for first time home ownership is now 40 years old.
That with the price of gas because of Donald Trump's war with Iran, that you can't afford to take your kids on the same vacation that your parents took you on. That really hits American families, you know, right in their -- in their psyche.
So, I believe we should look at aspirational investments in affordable housing. I believe we should look at big solutions. I personally think it's time for a fix the darn country constitutional amendment where we get rid of partisan gerrymandering once and for all that we overturn Citizens United. We should have term limits for everything, including the Supreme Court, with what we're seeing right now.
So yes, I think people want big, bold ideas, but I think what they're going to actually vote on is who cares about me more? Who do I believe after Donald Trump betrayed me, said he'd bring down prices and that his tariff policy, his big, ugly bill and his war with Iran only made things skyrocket.
They're going to be looking for people they can believe in that have the receipts and that they believe will get up every day to fight for them.
HUNT: Governor, I want to play something that California Governor Gavin Newsom, of course, widely considered a potential Democratic presidential candidate. If the midterms go well, this is what he had to say about how to fight back against Donald Trump. Watch
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWSOM: Trump's not screwing around, and nor can we. Yeah, it's uncomfortable fighting fire with fire. Yes, we all want the better angels. Yes, we want the Sorkin sound and music, a little "West Wing". I do.
But we'll lose our country. We will lose our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The governor seems to be saying there that the "West Wing" idealism, of course, referring to the TV show for our viewers who are not, you know, millennials like me. And that was at the center of our cultural zeitgeist. He seems to be saying, you need to be more aggressive in fighting back against Donald Trump. Do you agree?
BESHEAR: Well, listen, it's politically popular to sue Donald Trump in California.
[16:25:01]
I've done it 20 times in a state he won by 31 points. It's popular to criticize Donald Trump in the Northeast. I do it every day in a deep, red southern state.
So, we all fight in our own ways, but it needs to be in a way that can ultimately draw more people in to this party. I don't think we beat Donald Trump by being a Democratic version of him. I think we beat Donald Trump by being better, by not just being against someone, but for something, that American dream and offering the American people something better, something that they can ultimately hope for.
And it's -- we got to do more than just win that. We got to win. We've got to ultimately heal this country so that your neighbor is not the enemy from within, but just your neighbor doing their best every single day.
HUNT: Governor, if, of course, whoever does become the Democratic nominee will face -- we expect Donald Trump to be stepping off the stage, replaced potentially by J.D. Vance or, of course, Marco Rubio, another person who has been rising in the conversation as well. J.D. Vance, the vice president today, wouldn't rule out using money from a fund to pay potential January 6 rioters.
Your reaction to his refusal to rule that out?
BESHEAR: Flat out crazy, and it's all out fraud. I mean, Donald Trump made J.D. Vance the czar fraud. Well, there's now a 1.78, 1.7, or $1.8 billion slush fund for Donald Trump's allies. Theres $1 billion ballroom that hasn't been approved. Donald Trump is buying stocks and then pumping up the companies.
Hey, J.D., there's the fraud. Go get it.
HUNT: Do you think that it would be harder for the Democratic nominee to run against J.D. Vance or against Marco Rubio in 2028?
BESHART: Well, I think we've got to be ready for whoever it is, and we've got to be ready for them to be willing to say anything. I mean, J.D. Vance pretends he's from Kentucky. He's not. He's from the suburbs of Cincinnati. He made his money off talking down to the people of Appalachia. It was
poverty, tourism. This is a guy who changed his name multiple times and who calls his childhood his origin story.
Now, Marco Rubio appears to be willing to do anything to get ahead. I mean, he works for a president that called him "little Marco", that insulted him over and over. And what's his response? Yes, sir. And yes, sir.
So I think the American people are going to be ready regardless for real leadership, people that have the receipts of getting things done in their states, and they're going to be looking for someone that that again, doesn't just swing that pendulum from one side to another, but can actually restore the stability of this country, can restore the stability of our economy and can make sure were no longer viewed internationally as the bully on the playground. But once again, the leader of the free world.
HUNT: You've talked a lot today about how Democrats can win, what they need to do, what they need to say. I want to play something for you that the former first lady, Michelle Obama, said recently about the country and what they are looking for, and then we'll talk about it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: We saw in this past election, sadly, we ain't ready. That's why I'm like, don't even look at me about running because you all are lying. You're not ready for a woman. You are not. So don't waste my time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: She says the country's not ready for a woman. There was also an "Axios" headline that some Democrats 2028 strategy is a straight, white Christian man.
Governor, do you agree with the first lady there about what the country is ready for?
BESHEAR: Well, I don't like disagreeing with Michelle Obama because I'm a big fan, but I think the country is ready for the best candidate, regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation. I think we have got to push to be that country where just the very best person can achieve any and every office. Discrimination is wrong in every single form, and we ought to speak out against it every single time.
HUNT: All right. Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, thank you very much for being in THE ARENA. I do hope it's not your first trip here, and well see you again soon.
BESHEAR: Look forward to coming back.
HUNT: All right. Thank you so much.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, more on the Bluegrass battle and whether Thomas Massie will become a rare survivor of the president's political revenge campaign.
Plus, President Trump finally makes an endorsement in one of the year's most pivotal senate races. The reaction from leaders in his party was, well --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): I don't -- none of us control what the president does. He made his decision about that. That doesn't change the way I feel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:34:16]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THUNE: Senator Cornyn is a principled conservative. He is a very effective senator for the state of Texas. And -- but I don't -- none of us control what the president does. He made his decision about that. That doesn't change the way I feel. And I am certainly supportive of, will continue to be supportive of Senator Cornyn and his reelection.
REPORTER: Did Trump give you a heads up beforehand, or did you find out the --
THUNE: I found out, I think way everybody else did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Quote, none of us control what the president does, end quote.
That was the senate majority leader, John Thune, reacting to President Trump's surprise endorsement of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton over incumbent Senator John Cornyn in the state's senate runoff. The president's decision, complicating, shall we say, the election math for Senate Republicans who warned that Paxton's nomination could put Texas in play in November.
Trump, announcing his endorsement on truth social this afternoon. He wrote this, quote, "Ken is a true MAGA warrior who has always delivered for Texas and will continue to do so in the United States Senate."
In the same post, the president also explained why he didn't back Cornyn. He wrote this in part, quote, "John Cornyn is a good man, and I worked well with him, but he was not supportive of me when times were tough."
My panel is back.
Congressman Peter Meijer, I don't -- I don't want to bring back bad memories for you. MEIJER: But thoughts on GOP primary.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: But you do actually have personal experience with what happens when you do something that President Trump doesn't like. For whatever reason, whether it was, you know, whether it's petty or in your case, it was something of conscience that you made a very strong statement about.
But this is likely, I mean, I'll let you speak to this. I mean, what is this going to mean for John Cornyn? I mean, it's going to mean he loses his election? No?
MEIJER: Yeah. And I think if we look at this race in particular, I think there was a very good chance that John Cornyn would have lost anyways. I mean, there was a lot of enthusiasm on the Ken Paxton side of the House. You know, there's sort of an anti-establishment sentiment. And you want to be somebody who is who's getting the rabble rousers going. You don't want to be the type of person who is well, actually them. And so that invariably tends towards the people who can rise out of motion.
And let's be honest, like turnouts or elections right now are not about persuasion on either side of the aisle. They're about turning out in base enthusiasm. I think that had Donald Trump endorsed John Cornyn, he probably would have won. I think without that endorsement, Paxton was probably already polling double digits ahead of him. So, this was probably just getting out in front of what a victory would have been.
But more to the story, I would really appreciate it if the Democratic takeaway was that Texas is in play, because when Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee folks, when the NRSC has, you know, a two-to-one cash advantage over the DSCC -- yeah, go down to Texas and spend all those while we're focusing on other states.
HUNT: Yeah, I mean -- Christine, go ahead.
QUINN: Well, Republicans are going to have to spend a ton more now than they had banked on thanks to this endorsement, especially if Ken Paxton wins. And James Talarico is having a great day.
James Talarico always had to clear a bunch of hurdles for Texas to be in play. He cleared the first one when he handily beat Jasmine Crockett. This is the second one -- getting a Ken Paxton endorsement. This is the candidate James Talarico wants to run against. And I agree with you. I think he's going to win. And I think he was always going to win that that runoff is next week. He'll clear another one if that happens.
This is the matchup that makes Texas in play. It wasn't going to be with Cornyn. It wasn't going to be with Crockett. It's this head to head.
So, its going to be really interesting to watch. But the thing we know is and why so many Trump advisers and advisers were telling him, please endorse John Cornyn, is this race just got way more expensive for Republicans?
MEIJER: I respectfully disagree. I think that would Cornyn have been more likely to get some folks in the middle? Yeah. Would he have driven the same amount of Republican turnout in a year where Trump is not on the ballot? I don't know.
QUINN: Yeah. We'll see.
HUNT: So, let's put the polling up and, Astead, you can weigh in on this. The -- this was the University of Texas, Texas politics project in April. They looked at these hypothetical matchups, Talarico versus Cornyn, Talarico versus Paxton. And I mean, it's essentially a -- you know, it's a statistical dead heat there, although you do see like, you know, that Ken Paxton has a slight edge among Republican voters.
The question is, what happens to those 24 percent who say that they don't yet have an opinion on this race? And I'm not I'm looking to see if we have there's, there's an ad that was run by Cornyn against Paxton in the beginning phase of this primary that kind of speaks to the same vulnerabilities that Ken Paxton brings to the table.
I mean, that's what put this -- puts this race in play. No?
HERNDON: It is. And their vulnerabilities that are unique to Paxton. But I think Peter's points are important one. I mean, there are two ways that you can look at it that in a year where Donald Trump is definitely going to be an anchor on Republicans, that requires a candidate more like Cornyn, who can reach out to the other side. You could also say that that means that that outreach will probably be unsuccessful. And you want someone who's more driving from the base. And that's certainly what Paxton is going to try to do.
We know that Democrats feel as if this was the matchup that they wanted. I think it's going to come down to who Ken Paxton is over the next couple of months, obviously. But there is a kind of anti- establishment fervor in both of the bases of the parties. And while Donald Trump has often conducted himself, I think, as we've seen as a mob boss in electoral politics, he is an effective one.
[16:40:04]
And that is part of the reason he has been able to transform the levers of power in Republican establishment to become the establishment. It's because of power plays like this, they work.
HUNT: And Christine Quinn, should Democrats pour a bunch of money into the Texas senate race, or would it be smarter for them to, like, put it in Maine behind Graham Platner to try to beat Susan Collins?
QUINN: I think we're going to have to do both. And I think that means we're going to have to raise more money and be better at raising money and raising money quickly. You know, I think.
HUNT: Easier said than done. QUINN: Absolutely.
HUNT: But it's what parties are -- in essence, it's why you have a party apparatus is to do that, you know, and I think the question in Texas, really one of the questions is where do the independent voters end up? The base is the base, and the base is going to turn out, you know, on either side.
And certainly, the MAGA base, 30, 35, is always going to turn out. That's not a question.
Where the independents, and if this war goes on longer, if gas continues to go up, if the president puts out pearls of wisdom like "I don't ever think about the economic impact on American citizens," that really is going to drive, I believe, independents, to the Democratic nominee in Texas and in Maine.
HUNT: All right. Let's talk briefly about this election that's going on today, which is, of course, this primary in Kentucky for Thomas Massie, the congressman who has crossed President Trump, a number of which weighs in Washington.
Let's listen to some voters in Kentucky who have been talking to us about who they're supporting, Thomas Massie or his primary challenger, who's backed by President Trump. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not putting Trump down at all because I'm very much a fan of his. But -- but I'm still going to vote for Thomas.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Is that one of the reasons that you supported Ed Gallrein as well to support the president?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I support the president, but I would have voted for Ed Gallrein either way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of pressure to vote for Ed, but I don't know, I feel like -- I feel like Massie is more for the Constitution. So that's who I'm going with.
ZELENY: If Trump came in here and said, don't vote for Massie, what would you say?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd say, well, if I want to vote for him, I'll vote for him. If I don't want to vote for him, I won't vote for him. It's my -- it's my choice, not yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, there's a range of voices that may sound like your neighbors.
Now let's watch an anti-Massie ad that tied him to people like Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, run by a group called MAGA Kentucky. Take a look
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AD NARRATOR: Thomas Massie, caught in a throuple in Washington. He's cheating with the Squad on the America first movement. Massie voted with the Squad against Trump's tax cuts. Massie voted with the Squad against finishing Trump's wall. He voted with them against hiring new border agents. Well, this is worse than adultery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: On that wholesome note, S.E. Cupp, this is a tough race for Massie today.
CUPP: It is. And that's -- that's politics, right, tying him to two of the most extreme members of the Democratic Party with --
HUNT: And they did use A.I. to do it. I'm being told. We should note that some of that was created with A.I.
HERNDON: They didn't hold -- no.
CUPP: Yes. They did not actually hold hands walking up. Right, right. But I mean, you know, of course that was going to happen. I don't know that the throuple part was necessary. We don't have to go there.
QUINN: I'm going to go out on a limb.
CUPP: Yeah.
QUINN: That that may be the first time throuple has ever been used in a campaign ad.
CUPP: Probably.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: I don't know, in the Trump era, but you might be right. I don't know.
QUINN: I hope I'm right.
CUPP: I mean, this is 100 percent -- another one of 100 percent of just Trump, you know, going after the loyalty, right? This is about loyalty and Trump deciding that Thomas Massie has not been loyal enough because of primarily Epstein files. And also what he's been saying about Iran. Tom Massie, I will just remind everyone is also representative of a lot of MAGA who is mad at him over the war and the Epstein files.
HUNT: And all the various America first issues.
Okay. Ahead here in THE ARENA, were going to talk live with one of the Republicans in the crowded race for governor in Georgia, as voters there head to the polls. Brad Raffensperger will be here with us coming up next. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY HUTCHISON, GEORGIA VOTER: There are so many challengers on the Republican side. They're beating each other up, which is fine. We need to have the most capable person in the office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:48:58]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What motivated you today to want to come out and vote?
RONNIE HEATON, GEORGIA VOTER: Well, just the whole thing. Just the whole economy and everything just to get out and do my part.
BETTY CARR, GEORGIA VOTER: I'm looking for a good governor. We all would like prices to be lower.
HUTCHISON: There are so many challengers on the Republican side. They're beating each other up, which is fine. We need to have the most capable person in the office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: On this Tuesday in Georgia, voters are voting in what could just be the start of a set of runoff elections, with Republicans closely watching two competitive and expensive high profile primaries for both a Senate seat and for governor.
Joining me now is one of the candidates to be Georgia's next governor, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger.
Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for being with us. I appreciate you taking some time today. And of course, best of luck in your race today.
I want to start with the news that we have been covering here.
[16:50:02]
You, of course, rose to national prominence after rebuking President Trump's attempt to overturn the election results in Georgia in 2020, and the Justice Department announced yesterday the creation of a fund, $1.776 billion that Trump's allies can apply to receive part of as compensation for what is being said is unfair targeting.
What would it mean for fake electors in Georgia, for others who were involved in the attempt to overturn the results in your state, to apply for and receive taxpayer money for this?
BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I can't have any effect or change of national politics, but what I can do is focus in on what's happening here in Georgia. And that intro just shows you what people are concerned about here in Georgia is affordability. And they're also concerned about safety.
I've been traveling all over the state, and I'm the only person running for governor has a real plan to make things affordable and safe. And that's my number one, creating good paying jobs and capping property taxes for everyone, helping out our seniors. I want to make sure they can stay in their homes by eliminating all non-essential property taxes and eliminating income tax on retirement benefits, and that's going to give people real relief in Georgia.
HUNT: Do you feel like President Trump's efforts at the national level are helping to aid the affordability crisis that you're describing in the state of Georgia? He has been focused on this fund, on the ballroom he's building, among other things.
RAFFENSPERGER: I think everyone in Washington, D.C., understands it's an issue. We had high inflation coming off of COVID. Then we beat it down. And then now with the, you know, situation with Iran, gas prices have gone up. And that's really pinching everyone.
You buy 20 gallons worth of gas and all of a sudden, it goes up a buck 50. That's real money. And that's hurting, you know, middle class families all over the state of Georgia. And so, whatever we can do, the governor wisely, you know, put a pause on any of the state gasoline tax that helps families. I understand the feds looking at doing the same.
The end of the day, what we really have to look at is how do we really take advantage? More people want to bring manufacturing back to America. So, as we reshore manufacturing back to America, how do I make sure that Georgia is at the front of the line with reshoring with advanced manufacturing? Because that's going to create great paying jobs, and that's going to make a difference in a person's life.
It has in my life, and it will make it for anyone else, because a good paying job will change your life.
HUNT: Mr. Secretary, one of the other themes that we've seen over the course of the last few days are situations where people who have crossed President Trump in the Republican Party have found themselves on the receiving end of his wrath and have lost their elections. Bill Cassidy lost a primary. Thomas Massie facing a significant challenge in Kentucky today.
If you do not win this race today, if you do not end up in the runoff, is it because you took on President Trump?
RAFFENSPERGER: I think that my message -- right now, we have one fellow that spent $100 million, another fellow, his dad spent $30 million. And so those two folks are, you know, throw mud at each other. And I'm just, you know, talking to voters what's really important, because my focus is the taxpayers, the hardworking Georgians that are out there, that's going to be my focus. And we have our message out there. It's resonating. And people know
that I'm going to stand for and do what's right no matter what. People are looking for integrity, looking for someone that's actually built a company with 150 200 employees, worked in other states. So I've seen how some states make it easy to do business, and some states make it hard.
Georgia is number one. Governor Kemp's got much to be proud. Number one, you know, for business formation here. I want to make sure that businesses still want to come here to Georgia and make sure that we can create jobs and make sure that it just continues on so that we can defeat this affordability issue.
HUNT: One of the other candidates in this race is also someone who you knew well and who was on the opposing side from President Trump during the 2020 election. And that's Geoff Duncan. He's now running for governor, but he's running as a Democrat. What's the difference between where you two landed after all that?
RAFFENSPERGER: I've been a conservative all my life. I believe in the Republican principles. I think Ronald Reagan just started this I guess the conservative revolution back in 1980. And I just believe in hope, opportunity.
I think that hard work should be rewarded with a good paying job. And at the end of the day, you work your whole life. I think that you should have enough saved up so that you can actually enjoy the good life when you finish your career.
And so that's my focus. I'm an economic conservative, a Christian conservative businessman. And I just believe that America is just a tremendous country.
[16:55:01]
We're going to celebrate 250 years, and we have some tremendous founders. And they believed in these high values, noble values of hard work, that we had a creator, and he was looking out for us. And God wants the very best for us. And our job as elected public servant is to make sure we get out of the way, don't put burdens on people, get regulations reduced so people become more and do more.
HUNT: All right. Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, thank you very much for being with us. And again, best of luck in your race today.
RAFFENSBERGER: My pleasure. Good to be with you.
HUNT: Thank you so much. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Thanks so much to my panel. I really appreciate you all being here. Nice to be in New York City.
Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by for "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
