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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Vance Defends Trump's Iran Deal Against GOP Criticism; Ceremony Marks Dedication Of Obama Presidential Center; New Details On Forthcoming Book On Trump's Second Term. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired June 18, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:06]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. Kasie Hunt is off. I'm Pamela Brown. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.

And right now, the MOU has the GOP asking "WTF".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I've heard about it. It causes me concern.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I certainly wouldn't want to give around money.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I have not reviewed the MOU yet.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You haven't reviewed the MOU yet?

REPORTER: Do you think this is a good deal for the United States?

COLLINS: So I have not yet had a chance to review the MOU.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): When I get details, I'll respond to details.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Whether or not you can land this deal with Iran, I don't know.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): History demonstrates that giving billions of dollars to theocratic lunatics who want to murder us is an exceptionally bad idea. And I think, unfortunately, the president is receiving some really bad advice on this deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So this new criticism among leading Republicans is prompting the White House today to ramp up its defense of President Trump's memorandum of understanding with Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd say to anybody, any of the critics, is, number one, have a little bit of faith in the president of the United States. The idea that he is going to strike a deal that's been bad for the American people, it's preposterous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So Vice President J.D. Vance in the briefing room today confirming that today is day one of that 60-day clock to reach a final agreement.

And President Trump saying this afternoon that he expects a, quote, "complete ceasefire on all fronts" as the next round of talks start.

Now, the V.P. echoed the president acknowledging that, at least so far, both sides are working in good faith, while warning that may not always be the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: They certainly recognize that the United States has great leverage. Will that ultimately lead to a change in behavior? I don't know. You know, I've seen skeptics of the deal. People say the Iranians will never change their behavior. Well, maybe that's true. And if so, they don't get any of the benefits of the bargain. But isn't it worth trying?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So let's get off the sidelines and head into THE ARENA.

My panel is here, along with CNN's senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, you've had a very busy day. You were in the vice president's briefing there at the White House this morning. And you also have some new reporting breaking right now on the path forward in these talks. What are you learning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Pamela. So alongside our colleague Katie Bo Lillis and Zach Cohen, we are reporting that Iran and the U.S. have been laying out these secret proposals that are meant to implement that 14-point memorandum of understanding. And Vice President Vance all but confirmed these proposals and that some of them were written down after I talked to him in the briefing room. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: A U.S. official described having secured some of these, quote/unquote, "gentleman's agreements" with Iran --

VANCE: Sure.

HOLMES: -- on certain aspects of the negotiation. So when it comes to highly enriched uranium, can you walk us through

what's been secured, even in these kind of gentleman's agreements, on how exactly they're going to get rid of the stockpile? Are there agreements on low-grade enrichment? How long is the moratorium on enriching uranium for Iran? And are any of these gentleman's agreements written down anywhere?

VANCE: So some of them are written down, but fundamentally, whether they're written down or spoken, this is why we structured the deal that we did, because we don't trust words. We trust action, and we trust conduct. And so, we're going to reward conduct, and we're not going to reward any words, whether they're written on a sheet of paper or not.

There's a lot of discussion, the MOU, the gentleman's agreements, the final deal. Words don't matter, ladies and gentlemen. We're about verification. And so what we're going to do is to say, if they do the things that they have promised to do, they have promised not to enrich. They have promised that they would allow inspectors in to destroy that highly enriched stockpile, and then, of course, it's not usable anymore. You take it somewhere else.

They promised a number of things. And that's why the deal contemplates a number of benefits if they do those things. But it doesn't do anything if they don't actually meet those promises.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So you heard there him talking about these promises, but the real key is the fact that these gentlemen's agreements that we've heard of from U.S. officials, some of them are in writing. And what we're told is that they're meant to help move forward with an Iran nuclear deal, the actual peace deal there.

Now, we don't have a lot of the details, and we are told they are far from finalized. Iran has not signed any of these documents, but they certainly are out there. And there is some hesitation about talking about them within the White House, within the administration, who have repeatedly said there are no side deals. They say this doesn't constitute a side deal, but gentlemen's agreement in writing, you can draw that inference yourself there.

Now, the other point from J.D. Vance's really remarkable press conference was what he leveled at Israel. He at one point said -- sent a message to Israeli cabinet members saying that they shouldn't try and betray the only ally, that being President Trump, they have in the entire world. And it was not a thinly veiled comment that he made towards Israel. He also said that at times they have stood in the way of a peace deal.

And then President Trump seemed to level his own message to Israel on Truth Social. And he wrote specifically, "We expect a complete ceasefire on all fronts, including Lebanon, Hezbollah, and Israel."

[16:05:06]

So those are some pretty harsh words from the administration towards Israel as this deal moves forward.

BROWN: Yeah, definitely seeing these administration officials, including the president and vice president, take a harder line against Israel as they try to negotiate with Iran.

Kristen Holmes live for us from the White House, thanks so much.

And my panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel; political analyst, author of "The Blow Stack" newsletter, Charles Blow; CNN global affairs commentator, former Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh; and Republican strategist, former RNC communications director Doug Heye.

Great to have you all with us.

Jamie, I want to start with you on the politics of this. We've heard from Republicans a lot of criticism. We heard that mash-up. I want to read the statement from Roger Wicker. He is the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and this is the statement he gave to Punchbowl News today.

Quote, I am concerned that the memorandum of understanding negotiates away the victories of Operation Epic Fury in ways that are completely out of step with the president's goals, specifically the $300 billion fund for the reconstruction and economic development of Iran, though not funded by U.S. taxpayers, would make Iran's payoff under President Obama's 2015 deal look like a pittance by comparison.

And as you know, there was a lot of criticism from Republicans back then when Obama did that. Now you have Roger Wicker, a top Republican, criticizing the money that Iran could get as part of this deal.

What do you think this moment means for the MAGA coalition right now and for the White House?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: He said everything very politely, except pallets of cash. Look, Trump kept saying that Iran was desperate for a deal. The reality is that Trump was desperate for an off-ramp. The problem now is listening to Republicans who normally fall in line with the president. It's anything but what they think is a good deal.

J.D. Vance had today what I think, Sabrina, you would call a bad portfolio at the State Department. And there is real concern both about what is this deal really? Nobody knows. But also that President Trump still does not understand the Iranians and that he's getting played.

BROWN: Yeah, and it is interesting. You're right. Usually the Republicans fall in line and maybe you would expect Senator Cassidy to come out, Senator Cornyn, who just lost her primaries against Trump- backed opponents. But it has gone far beyond that in terms of the criticism.

And I'm wondering, Doug, do you think the White House is surprised by the kind of pushback it's getting from Republicans on Capitol Hill? DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't think they're surprised, and I don't think they care. Look, Donald Trump has made it clear that legislative majorities aren't really what's important to him. He wants to do things his way, however that gets done.

And what we're seeing now is two things. One, for 50 years, we've known that the Iranian government, they aren't exactly gentlemen. So to call this a gentleman's agreement is something that's not going to be taken very seriously by Republican senators. And this seems to be the art of the really terrible deal.

And Republicans are scratching their heads and angry at this because for months we've not been told what specifically we're doing, how we define success, and we're very publicly seeing this administration make it up as it goes along, and it's a disaster for the administration. Also not great for Israel right now either.

BROWN: Yeah, and you heard J.D. Vance there at the podium earlier sort of shrug off this idea that he would take the blame if this goes bad, as you heard President Trump say yesterday, say, no, I think that was a joke.

But bottom line is we heard J.D. Vance dismissed the idea that you need to get this gentleman's agreement, quote-unquote, "on paper", saying actions speak louder than words. What do you think of that from a Pentagon point of view?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: The Iranians are very good at negotiating, and they are good at drawing this out. So it is actually very important that it is written down, and they fight over every single word, and so do we. And that's how we hold them accountable.

He's not wrong. I mean, actions do speak louder than words, as the phrase goes, but those actions have to be met by what's on the paper. And if there's a discrepancy, if the two sides do not understand each other, you can point back to the document and say, no, no, this is what we signed.

But I think, you know, to what Jamie was talking about, I mean, this was a bad day for J.D. Vance, to go out there and try to defend this deal that essentially is giving cash up front to open the Strait of Hormuz, which was open before the war.

So Iran is actually walking away from this MOU on stronger economic footing than they were before the war started. I mean, yes, their military capabilities have certainly been degraded, and that is a strong aspect that our military did. But they are walking away, and they are going to be much stronger because all the economic benefits they're going to get, they can pour it back into development in their country, but they're most likely going to start rebuilding. They're going to be much stronger because all the economic benefits that they're going to get, they can pour it back into development in their country, but they're most likely going to start rebuilding their military capabilities that we so, you know, so-called decimated.

[16:10:01]

BROWN: Yeah, and it was also interesting just to me that it's J.D. Vance out front and center once again on this, not Marco Rubio, the secretary of state.

I read your mind.

CHARLES BLOW, AUTHOR, "THE BLOW STACK" NEWSLETTER: Where is Marco? Well, Marco's out front. They are letting J.D. Vance take this thing to the bottom of the ocean.

It is a loss. There's no way to kind of dress this up. So what are you going to tell the American people? We force you into months of very serious pain. And what do you get out of it? Not a win.

We tell, you know, winning this with Israel saying we're partners, we're hooked at the joint at the hip, and now we're leaving them out in the cold?

What do we say to our allies? We went into this without you, and we didn't even win. We begged you to come and join us. You didn't do it, and it looks like you were right and we were wrong.

There is no -- there's no metric on this where it looks like America wins. And Trump, who has said, you know, I'm going to win so much, you're going to get tired of winning.

Well, no, you're not. This looks on -- to everyone, including Republicans, like a massive loss. So it's -- the fact that J.D. now takes the lead on this, it feels like a setup that they want Marco to win.

SINGH: Well, vice presidents often have to carry the water of the administration. Yes, I'm very familiar with some of the -- you know, the things that where you differ on the president, but you still have to go out there and sell it to the American public. And you saw the vice president sort of, you know, eating his responsibilities today and selling it. And we know from reporting that he was not in favor of this war. But I think the fact that they are messaging that, you know, we're going to put this on J.D. Vance from the president himself is, um, it's a bit awkward.

BLOW: But J.D. had to deliver the most --

SINGH: Yes.

BLOW: -- cringe statement ever today, which was, we're negotiating a deal with the words don't matter. What does that even mean? I don't -- like how -- make that make sense.

SINGH: Yeah.

BROWN: Well, it was interesting.

BLOW: There's something signed. BROWN: Right, because he was pressed about the fact that yesterday, President Trump talked about the fact that, oh, it's OK if Iran has some ballistic missiles.

SINGH: Right.

BROWN: And the administration at the very beginning said one of its core objectives was to destroy its missile capabilities, its missile destroyer capabilities. I actually want to play some of that sound that we heard from the beginning when this war was launched.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Iran was building powerful missiles and drones to create a conventional shield for their nuclear blackmail ambitions. This operation is a clear, devastating, decisive mission. Destroy the missile threat.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The regime's conventional ballistic missile program was growing rapidly and dramatically, and this posed a very clear, colossal threat to America.

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We will now not allow Iran to hide behind the immunity of a massive a short-term ballistic missile inventory or the ability to make them or launch them.

TRUMP: They had missiles aimed at all of these other countries. They were going after the entire Middle East.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And we know from our reporting, they still retain a fair bit of its weapons stockpile, including missiles and missile launchers. How are Hill Republicans going to swallow that one, given that it was one of the main core objectives of launching this?

HEYE: I think it highlights that now maybe the toughest job in Washington isn't that of Mike Johnson's, but of John Thune's, because we're really focused on Senate Republicans on this. And ultimately, they are learning what we've learned for 10 years now, that what Donald Trump says on Tuesday may have no bearing on what he said the day before on Monday. And this comes in the context of we've just had the G7 meetings, and we know that all of those -- all of those leaders were having private conversations, and it wasn't about J.D., it wasn't about Marco, it was about Donald Trump and this terrible deal.

BROWN: Is there any generous way of looking at this from a Republican point of view that, look, they still have 60 days to negotiate this? And is there a scenario by which they do obtain the overall objective of completely getting rid of Iran's nuclear program, as stated in the video?

HEYE: The concern on the Hill is more that we could see in 30 days or 60 days, more bombing, more going back to where we were just a couple weeks ago. BROWN: All right. Coming up, a member of the Armed Services Committee and Iraq War veteran, Congressman Seth Moulton, will join us live in THE ARENA that critiques and confusion he's hearing on Capitol Hill over this Iran deal.

And we're now getting some new lines from Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan's upcoming book on the Trump White House, including a moment when the president compared himself to Stalin and Hitler. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:19:00]

BROWN: Welcome back.

We are continuing to follow the breaking news of the initial agreement between the United States and Iran, the 60 days to negotiate a final deal starting today, according to Vice President J.D. Vance.

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman in Massachusetts, Seth Moulton. He serves on the House Armed Services Committee and is an Iraq war veteran.

Nice to have you on, Congressman.

So Vice President Vance said that the 60 days of negotiations on a final deal begins today. What do you want to see happen in these next 60 days?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Well, I actually want to see us get a good deal, because we have a terrible deal right now. I mean, this is not -- this is a -- this is a surrender document. It's essentially what it is.

And it's kind of striking that, you know, Donald Trump has promised unconditional surrender since he started this war. We just didn't know that it would be his.

BROWN: So, what would a really good deal look like to you? After the 60 days is up --

MOULTON: Yeah.

BROWN: -- and they say they reach something, although it does say in this preliminary agreement that that it could go beyond there if it's there's mutual consent. What would you like to see?

MOULTON: I would like to see what all of us want to see, which is a deal that's even stronger than Obama got to prevent Iran from ever having a nuclear weapon. But simply getting what President Obama handed to Donald Trump when he walked into the Oval Office would be a good start.

And let's just remember that to get this deal that right in the first line, said Iran will never develop a nuclear weapon that provided constant monitoring, intrusive inspections, 24/7 eyes on their nuclear program, required them to dismantle thousands of centrifuges and reduce the amount of uranium that they had enriched. Obama achieved all of that in exchange for less than $2 billion, and it didn't cost any American lives, didn't cost any taxpayer money to start a war.

So Trump is already starting pretty behind here because we're talking about $24 billion, maybe $300 billion that he's paying off the Iranians. He doesn't even have a deal yet. The war has cost 14 American lives. And the average cost -- the cost of the average taxpayer, which sort of gets lost as we throw around these billions of dollars here and there, is so far about $1,200, $1,200 for every American for essentially achieving nothing except surrendering to the Iranians. Not a good deal.

BROWN: Right. And you're right that in the first graph of the JCPOA, it does say Iran wouldn't create a nuclear weapon. But as you know, Republicans criticize it, including Trump, because of that sunset provision. We'll see what is -- what they're able to negotiate now. And I'm wondering what you think about the president formally signing the Iran deal at Versailles last night. What do you -- what do you think of that symbolism?

MOULTON: I mean, he -- it's an appropriate place to sign a surrender document, and it's too bad that the president is completely oblivious to history to understand the parallels there. But it is amazing that Trump and these MAGA Republicans lost their minds over Obama giving less than $2 billion to the Iranians when they're talking about giving $325 billion to this regime. A regime that's actually even more hardline than when we started this war, because they took out an 86- year-old in failing health with a fatwa against producing nuclear weapons and replaced him with someone who was more hardline in his 50s, just in case he wasn't hardline enough, they killed his immediate family.

I mean, this could be a lot worse. Just to assume that Iran's going to legitimately come to the table and negotiate a good nuclear deal in a mere 60 days. That's a huge assumption coming out of this MOU. And so while we're glad that Trump has finally ended this war he should never have started, it's not even clear that it's going to be permanently ended, let alone that we're going to be better off than when he began.

BROWN: And you say this regime is more hardlined. The president has argued the opposite, saying that this is a better regime to deal with than before. What are you basing your analysis on?

MOULTON: Well, the fact that his predecessor actually had a fatwa, a religious declaration against producing a nuclear weapon.

But a lot of independent analysts who've looked at the situation now say that, you know, one of the lessons Iran may take away from this conflict is that they should develop a nuclear weapon because you know what? We're not doing this to North Korea. And there's a reason. It's because they have a nuclear bomb.

So if that's the lesson these hardliners, newly empowered in the Iranian government, take away, then we're going to be in a worse position than we started. Not to mention all the other ways in which we already are. We haven't even talked about the billions of dollars of American military equipment that's been lost, destroyed. It now has to be replaced.

I mean, the cost to taxpayer dollars, the cost in taxpayer dollars here is not talked about enough. Trump is jacking up inflation. Prices at the gas pump are higher. Everything is going up in America, but he also just has a big bill to pay as a result of this war.

BROWN: Right. Gas prices, I think I saw today, did fall below $4, but it's about 25 percent higher than it was a year ago.

Let me just quickly ask you, given your position on Israel, you're seeing President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance take a harder line against Israel and their rhetoric. What do you think about that?

MOULTON: Look, I think we need to hold Israel to the same standards as every other nation in the world. And the president hasn't been doing that. So I guess maybe the bright side is that he's starting to look out for our national security interests here and recognize that he shouldn't just be doing what Bibi Netanyahu asks him to do.

BROWN: All right, Congressman Seth Moulton, thank you for coming on. We appreciate it.

MOULTON: Good to see you.

BROWN: And up next in THE ARENA, what we're learning about the moment the president took decorating into his own hands and used superglue to transform the Oval Office. We are not kidding. We actually have some fresh reporting to back that up.

And we're also going to take you live to the South Side of Chicago and to the newly opened Obama Presidential Center.

[16:25:04]

The man behind the words that are etched on the side of the library, President Obama's former speechwriter will join us live, up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We the people. We shall overcome. Yes, we can. That word is owned by no one. It belongs to everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back.

The highly anticipated Obama Presidential Center is finally open in the South Side of Chicago. The opening ceremony drawing all four living former presidents along with a bevy of musical stars and celebrities.

[16:30:02]

The Obamas took to the podium and talked about the purpose of the center and called on Americans to come together and look towards the future.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

B. OBAMA: There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of these young people out there making a difference right now. And this center is devoted to lifting up their stories.

For while our work is nonpartisan, we are not values neutral. We have a point of view.

The exhibits in the center are not meant to evoke nostalgia for some gauzy, bygone era, some unattainable past that we can dream about and say, "Oh, we miss you, Barack."

They're meant -- they're meant to remind us of who we can be, to remind us of what's possible, so we can forge ahead, clear-eyed and confident, and do the work that still needs to be done. We can learn from the past, but America's story isn't frozen in the past. It has chapters yet to be written.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: Y'all, hope is all we have, because hope is the essential spark that lights the fire of change. But hope is a choice. Whether or not we use our voices to speak up is a choice. Voting is a choice. Being a decent human being is a choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And my panel is here with us.

And joining us now is also former Obama speechwriter Cody Keenan. He helped write Obama's speech marking the 50th anniversary of the Selma marches. Part of that speech is etched on the side of the Obama Center.

So before we get to the panel here, Cody, I want to start with you. First off, what was it like being at the opening ceremony today as someone who played such a big role in the Obama administration?

CODY KEENAN, FORMER OBAMA SPEECH WRITER: You know, it was wonderful. The best part is being able to get together with people that I've known now for almost 20 years, since the first campaign. I got to sit next to my wife, who I met at the White House.

It's just all kind of a big, wonderful homecoming. But at the same time, what this place means is that the work isn't done. It's like you talk today. This is a place where hope makes you want to roll up your sleeves and dive back in.

BROWN: Talk to us more about the significance of the center and having a quote from Obama's Selma speech etched on the side of the building. What message do you hope it sends to the American people?

KEENAN: Well, when he and I first sat down to write that speech 11 years ago now, we said, what's the story we want to tell? And we decided we wanted to give this generation its own marching orders, tell them how to improve their own democracy. It's a thread that runs through the Obama's entire career.

He moved here 40 years ago to organize, to help people -- to help convince people that they could take on power and win. And they did. And that's been the story of his entire career. And that's what this living library is going to teach people.

BROWN: All right, so let's zero in a little bit more on that Selma speech. We actually have the picture that you posted on X of a draft of the same quote posted on the side of the center with annotations. Right here, you can see it.

Walk us through what it was like crafting that speech and working on it with the president.

KEENAN: You don't expect it's going to end up on a building like this, but it was a really wonderful speech to write. It remains his favorite speech. That's why it's up there. It was joyous. It was patriotism for grown-ups. You know, the best part about it is two days before the actual speech, there was a blizzard in Washington, so we pulled down the president's schedule and he and I just got to pass five drafts back and forth.

But it's really a speech about who we are and who we're supposed to be. The truer story of this country, he says this all the time, there are two contrasting stories of America. One of them is that the strong can bully the weak, that you're only a true American if you look or act a certain way. And then there's another story which is on the side of this building, which is that it's our constant challenge to narrow the gap between the ideals of our founding and the realities of our time, no matter who you are, what you look like, how you love, how much money you've got, to make this place a country -- to make this country a place for everybody.

BROWN: All right. Cody, stand by.

We're going to go to our panel now.

Charles, I'm wondering what stood out to you from today.

BLOW: It's -- it's remarkable. I -- that Selma speech is very interesting to me because the White House invited me to fly down on Air Force One with Obama to give that speech.

BROWN: Wow.

BLOW: So I was on that flight.

BROWN: I didn't realize that.

BLOW: That is true. I also didn't realize you could be having a meeting and they'd land the plane, like, we weren't buckling into anything.

[16:35:00]

I was like, okay.

(LAUGHTER)

BLOW: So -- but it's really remarkable. But, you know, Obama said that he didn't want this to feel like nostalgia, but it does feel kind of retro because he is the last president before the Trump era. And though, you know, every other president adhered to a certain kind of ethos about how they thought about the country, how they thought about the role of the presidency, how they thought about the other branches of government.

And a lot of that has just been obliterated. And so, we -- there -- you can't help but look at this and hear him and remember a time where you weren't stressed out and afraid of what the president was going to do and whether or not that was going to destroy or harm the country itself.

BROWN: And it was notable that all four past living presidents were there, but not Trump. What did you think about that?

HEYE: Well, and he wasn't mentioned. He certainly was talked about a lot, but his name was never mentioned. We heard Mitt Romney and John McCain mentioned as more idealistic Americans.

So clearly, the president's absence physically didn't mean that he wasn't a part of certainly what was talked about. But I also saw a real split screen between today and what we've seen from Democrats in the past couple of weeks. President Obama talked about hope and unity, and what we've seen over the past week is Joe Biden fighting with a former staffer, Hillary Clinton attacking Joe Biden.

If I'm a Democrat, I want today to be how Democrats comport themselves, not what we've seen from Secretary Clinton and the Bidens.

BROWN: What do you think, Sabrina?

SINGH: I mean, I disagree with that. I think there are moments where people have disagreements, and it's been public. But I think today was a very hopeful day. And I think it's hard to have hope right now. And I think what the message was from Michelle Obama and Barack Obama was, keep hope alive. Keep it up, because you have -- that's the only way to make change.

And I think the message that Democrats will, I think, take from this -- and I actually hope it's not just Democrats, I hope it's nationwide -- is that if you want to fight for something, if you want to fight for change, have hope in it, have in it and put in the effort and roll up your sleeves. And I thought that was really the message today.

You know, we are in -- we are in unprecedented times as we use a lot on the show. And I think Democrats are charting their way forward through very hard and murky waters. And I think this was a nice boost for Democrats to hear.

BROWN: Yeah. And it's interesting when you look at the polling, Jamie --

GANGEL: Right.

BROWN: -- it shows that absence really makes the heart grow fonder. I mean, Obama is very popular now when you look at the numbers. George W. Bush as well, and then you compare it to Biden and Trump, and it's a different picture.

GANGEL: Completely different.

You know, the speech, both the speeches by both Michelle and Barack Obama, they were inspiring. They were uplifting. They were certainly a call to action.

But President Obama has recently said he sees himself less as a player these days and more as a coach. And there's a quote in the exhibit as you leave that says, "I'm asking you to believe not in my ability to bring about change, but in yours."

So there's a real message throughout the exhibit and throughout the speech. It's a call to action to the next generation.

BROWN: And Charles, I just want to circle back on something you said about Obama really making the point to say this is not meant to evoke nostalgia and some gauzy bygone era.

Why do you think it was so important for him to make that distinction?

BLOW: I think he's trying to -- he's anticipating what the reality is because it is gauzy. And it is, it is a call back to a bygone era. President Obama could not win today, right? The politics that made him possible are dead.

And so we look back on it firmly. We, you know, I think whether or not you liked his policies or not, he was a decent person. Driven by character, he wasn't engulfed in scandal. He wasn't crude. He's a decent person and did the job well.

But that politics in which he operated, those politics are dead to us now. It is much more aggressive, vicious. It is much more cut throat, a lot more -- it's allowed -- that would never be allowed in a past president or candidate at all. You'd be sunk by half of this stuff.

So all of that's gone. And so I think he's anticipating -- he's a very smart guy. So he understands what it is. He's trying to say the opposite of what he's feeling.

BROWN: I wonder, Cody, to bring you back in. what you think about Charles, what Charles just said, that the politics that made him possible are dead now. And also what you think he meant by unfinished business today when he said that?

[16:40:06] KEENAN: Yeah. Sorry, Charles. I don't agree with that at all. I was on that first campaign and I know we could do it again.

But you look at the quote on here. The very first thing it says is that America is not the project of any one person, you know? And presidential centers don't come around very often, but this one really is different. I do think there's a hunger for this stuff.

You walk in there, you don't feel like a visitor. You feel like you belong in this wider current of America. And it makes you feel, they teach you here, about how you can make a difference, how you can organize, how you can change things.

That's how -- that's how we changed people's lives in Altgeld Gardens, that's how we won the campaign, that's how we did a bunch in the White House, and it's time for a new generation to come in and learn those lessons.

BLOW: I anticipated you were going to say that.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: We like to showcase various viewpoints on the show, so that's good.

What do you think, Jamie?

GANGEL: To me, what President Obama was talking about was also, even though he never mentioned Trump. And we should say, President Trump was not invited to this. It wasn't just that he wasn't there.

BROWN: Right. That's an important --

GANGEL: He was not a part of it.

But President Obama in his speech, he called out being a bully. He said, we shouldn't be doing that, divvying up the spoils, attacking people who look different.

And then he said, I'm paraphrasing slightly here, as unsettled as we are, he doesn't believe that people are looking to be angry with each other. So while it's true that that was a different time, I felt the speech was passing the mantle, passing hope that we could get back there.

BROWN: All right. Cody Keenan, thank you so much.

The rest of my panel, stand by because we have some new reporting from our Jamie Gangel right ahead here in THE ARENA. New lines from the new book on the Trump White House. Jamie got an early look and will share the explosive details she learned.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:46:22]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Putin, very smart. President Xi is a brilliant man. How smart is Kim Jong-un?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, President Trump, as you know, has been very vocal about his admiration for living authoritarian leaders and dictators.

Now, in a new excerpt from Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan's upcoming book, he showed them a document arguing he was more powerful than some of the most feared and treacherous leaders in history, including Attila the Hunt, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler. Trump claimed the person who wrote the document was a presidential historian.

My panel is back.

I want to go straight to Jamie Gangel, who obtained this excerpt.

Walk us through this exchange. And did it really come from a presidential historian?

GANGEL: So, first of all, we obtained the entire book. So you're already sitting down. It's an extraordinary book. It's three years of research, more than 1,000 interviews. It's just a striking, blunt history of really the first year of Trump's presidency. So let's talk about this document that he proudly brings out and shows them that says he's more powerful -- I don't know that you would want to be -- than Stalin and Hitler, et cetera, and that it's a historian.

So they don't recognize the name of the historian at first. And Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan start trying to find out who it is. It turns out that the historian is none other than the former caddy, golf caddy, of the Hall of Famer Gary Player. It was his caddy and longtime confidant, and he had written this, and Trump very proudly showed it to them.

BROWN: And Trump, did he put on Truth Social?

GANGEL: So I -- someone said, suggested to me, it was, he posted the same thing just after midnight today on Truth Social, saying it's a historian. The sense is he may have gotten a copy of the book and is trying to get out ahead of the story.

BROWN: All right, let's dig a little bit deeper into what's, and yes, according to the book, Trump said, He proudly showed them the letter, Haberman and Swan writing, reciting the names of some of history's most powerful figures, explaining how each fell short of his own power as U.S. president. These leaders maintain power through fear, Trump said, according to the book. Who would ever do a thing like that, right?

What do you make of that statement, Charles? BLOW: Well, isn't that the name of the last book on Trump fear was because that was so central to how he thought about power. I mean, what this sounds like, and I can't wait to read it, it sounds like a detailing of a megalomaniac, a person who is consumed by power.

And that -- if that is the case, and that is exactly what he has demonstrated to us, it is the exact fear of the founders. And when you read their writings at the time in the Federalist Papers, they were deeply afraid of a person like this, consumed by power, lacking in character, coming into the presidency. But the strange part about that is that they didn't put up enough guardrails around the presidency to stop it. And so here we are.

BROWN: How do you see it as a Republican, Doug?

HEYE: Look, Trump does govern through fear, right? He's pretty open about that, you know, to be honest. And if you've watched how Republicans have behaved over the past 10 years, he's not wrong. Whenever he wants a Republican to bend to his will, they do so. And you can criticize, it's what makes this week and the negotiations with Iran sort of exceptional, because unless you go after Trump on a capital-T Trumpy thing, you can be critical of the administration whenever you want.

[16:50:10]

Lindsey Graham is really tough on Trump, and then somehow gets his way back to play golf with him in the weekend. Marco Rubio was very tough on Trump China policy, but you don't see people criticizing the wall, for instance, in the first term. And if they do, they walk it back pretty quickly.

It's why what Republicans do over the coming weeks may tell their story, not necessarily the midterms, but the next two or four years for Senate Republicans.

BROWN: I want to go to this other excerpt that's really fascinating about Trump putting up gold in the Oval Office -- Jamie.

GANGEL: So it turns out that, according to Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman, they have an anecdote that White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt walks into the Oval Office one morning and finds, and I'm quoting here, finds Trump, quote, "clutching a tube of superglue and attempting to affix gold decorations to the marble fireplace mantle". So if you want to know how all of that got there.

And they go on to say, as he was known to prefer his own aesthetic handiwork to anyone else's, the sight of the president squeezing glue onto gilded appliques and mounting them on the wall himself surprised no one in his inner circle. You cannot unsee that.

BROWN: You cannot.

BLOW: But he has a superglue as did he had baby oil. I bet he is sticking stuff on the walls all the time.

(LAUGHTER)

HEYE: So it's not what I need to know.

SINGH: Yeah, that's --

BROWN: Really, really.

SINGH: Yeah.

BROWN: That in our mind, Charles.

SINGH: It's just kind of -- I mean, it's kind of an interesting insight into how he acts like in the Oval. And also it's like, don't you have other things to do, better things to do? You know, I don't know when this was, but like there's a war going on there, you know, there -- there's an economy that you have to manage.

But I think, you know, the book, and clearly that insight into how he views leaders like Hitler, I mean, he does govern through fear. I mean, just look at his endorsements in some of these primaries. If you go against him, John Cornyn, you know, Bill Cassidy, they have fallen to Trump-backed candidates. And because, you know, the fear permeates through the Republican Party.

I do think you have people in the party that try to stand up. But they have, as we've seen, have fallen. And so, you know, it gives insight into how he thinks, but I think fear is how he governs and he likes to govern like that.

HEYE: I have a real question of how presidents get superglue.

BROWN: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Like hitting the button like bringing the super glue like --

BLOW: I just told you.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: I'm very curious how that manifested.

But I want to move on to this quickly with Jamie because it's actually interesting in the context we're in right now with how outspoken the president has been with Israel and J.D. Vance as well, taking a hardliner -- more -- a more hard line approach against Israel. According to the book, Jamie, he called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a con man.

GANGEL: Correct.

BROWN: And he also had quite a word for Howard Lutnick.

GANGEL: Right. So I think President Trump is often vulgar, I think, and so con man actually, in his world, his aides think that is sort of the ultimate insult for him to say. But he also goes after Howard Lutnick, a member of his cabinet, to his face.

And he says, "You used to be a killer, Howard. I remember when you were 35, you were a killer. Now you're just soft and you're," I'm not going to say that on TV because my mother is watching. "You know what you are, you're" -- there, you can look at it on TV.

So throughout the book, you really get a sense of what goes on in private and how he treats people.

BROWN: Hmm. What do you think?

BLOW: Well, you could just say that they -- he himself confessed he likes to grab people by, but that's one way of getting around saying that word. But I do think, you know, it is -- calling people a "con man" when you have been called a "con man" on your life is kind of a self revelation, and that's why he thinks it's such a stinging concept.

GANGEL: Right.

BROWN: All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:13]

BROWN: Finally, in THE ARENA, blue and orange flooded the streets of New York City.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK: My fellow New Yorkers, for 53 long years, we have watched and we have waited. This team has done it. The New York Knicks are NBA champions.

JALEN BRUNSON, NEW YORK KNICKS: Damn, we really did it, dog. Somehow, some way, I knew we were going to find a way to get this done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because New York's felt cursed since COVID, and I think now the curse is broken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we lose, we're together. When we win, we're together. It's always been like that in this culture, in New York culture.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, thanks to my panel.

"THE LEAD", anchored by Phil Mattingly, starts right now.