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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
New CNN Analysis On Senate Seats Likely To Flip In Midterms; AOC Endorses Abdul El-Sayed In Michigan Senate Primary; Former Olympian Indicted For Allegedly Damaging Reflecting Pool; Soon: Swift, Kelce Rehearsal Dinner At Madison Square Garden. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 02, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: -- joining me here on "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" this afternoon.
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Stay tuned. THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
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KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.
Right now, the Senate stakes and a new surge in the insurgent surge. A new CNN analysis just out today ranks the nine Senate seats most likely to flip in November. The third most likely seat is the one in Michigan.
Right now, uncertainty over the Democratic primary is a major factor in putting the state currently at risk of falling out of the Democrats' column. Michigan is one of just two states where the general election match-up is not yet set. The primary will be held in early August.
And today, the anti-establishment progressive candidate, Abdul El- Sayed, is getting a big endorsement. El-Sayed will be here with us live in just a moment.
But just hours ago, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said she's backing him. It's her first endorsement in a contested Senate race this year. And in doing so, she's breaking with party leaders, including Chuck Schumer, the minority leader.
This endorsement, the latest boost for anti-establishment Democrats who've unseated incumbents just as recently as this week in Colorado and last month in New York. And made some prominent fixtures openly anxious about the party's future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: And I never had a problem being in the same coalition with AOC or Jayapal, but for that matter, Ilhan Omar. I mean, they're probably what I would have considered, you know, out there in the same coalition I am, but I -- this new crop that's coming in, this is entirely different. This is not the same thing.
This is -- this is some kind of a -- and I don't, I think people might be voting for it and hadn't thought about it. I don't know what they're doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Let's get off the sidelines and head to THE ARENA. My panel's standing by.
But first, joining me now is Democratic Michigan Senate candidate Dr. Abdul El-Sayed.
Doctor, thank you very much for joining me. I really appreciate your time today.
I want to start with the big picture here because we have seen these insurgent wins in some recent races, driven in no small part by communication style and strategy in some cases. But the reality is most of these candidates are winning in places that are going to send Democrats to Washington, no matter -- or to the governor's mansions, no matter what.
That is not the case in Michigan. Michigan is a purple state. What do you say to party leaders who are concerned that if Democratic primary voters pick you, you're not going to be able to win the general election?
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: I asked them to focus y'all because at the end of the day, the issue is the economy, stupid, as I believe the last individual you just highlighted suggested. And right now, people can't afford the basic means of a dignified life. They're worried about whether or not they can see a doctor if they get sick, how they're going to afford a home or the next payment, whether or not they can stay in the job they've worked for years and years.
And we're focused on exactly those issues, the issues that Democrats should have been focusing on for the for the vast majority of the last 20 years. And I think we've taken our eyes off the ball. And in part, it's because, too often, our politics get sieved through conversations like this about the future of the party.
Most people don't care about the future of the party. They care about their future. And so long as we're answering questions about that, helping them to get money out of their politics so we can get money in their pockets and pass Medicare for all, you're going to see candidates who have those conversations, like we are in Michigan, winning.
HUNT: The reality, though, is there's no way Medicare for All passes Congress if Democrats don't control the Senate. And if you don't win that Senate seat in Michigan, it's very hard to see how Democrats win the Senate at all.
EL-SAYED: You're right. And the reason we don't win seats too often is because we offer milquetoast corporate talking points about what we can't have and shouldn't fight for. I believe we can have Medicare for All. I wrote a whole book on how to do it.
I know we can do it if we're willing to build the kind of politics and the kind of coalition that gets us there, but we're not going to get there not talking about what we need to actually deliver for folks. I think campaigns are winning across the country because we have bold views on what can actually happen when we're willing to fight for them. And I think Democrats could learn a broader lesson about what we're learning here.
I'm a proud Democrat. I love my party. I just want my party to actually focus on the things that real voters actually need in their lives.
HUNT: So, you obviously are very critical of President Donald Trump.
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You identify him as a problem, as a way that, you know, a place that the country needs to move away from. However, if you're going to win in Michigan, you're going to have to win over at least some Trump voters. So the state went for Trump in the most recent election.
Is there anything that he's done in this second term in office that you can identify as being good for the country?
EL-SAYED: It's hard. And as you squint, I think if he lets this housing bill actually pass, despite the fact that he canned his signing ceremony because he wants to pass the SAVE Act, this housing bill will do really, really important work. So I think that's one important thing, bipartisan legislation, that actually solves a real problem that people have.
But I'll tell you this -- I've been to 110 different cities now, 400 and some public events. And everywhere I go, I have three-time Trump voters come up to me and say, "I'm voting for you because you really want to keep my tax dollars here and you really want me to have health care."
The idea that voters pick on this left-right spectrum, that's a model that we created in our minds and we keep imposing it on elections even though it doesn't really explain what's actually happening. Most voters are out there trying to just make sure that they can make ends meet. They don't care as much about our left-right spectrum in blue and red and purple. They care about whether or not you actually want to solve their problems.
And when you go to their communities, you have conversations, you've done the listening and the learning, and you're willing to actually tell people where you stand, you'd be surprised how many people who voted for Donald Trump might be voting for somebody named Abdul El- Sayed.
HUNT: I want to play for you a new attack ad that is out against you. You recently did an interview where you talked about your competitor, Haley Stevens. She's, of course, a member of the House, who's running also in your primary.
You said that you hoped AIPAC could, quote, teach her how to string together two coherent sentences. There's now this ad attacking you in the way that you talk about women.
Let's watch it, and we'll talk about it on the other side. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AD NARRATOR: Abdul El-Sayed has a long history of disrespecting women. He called Michelle Obama's work with children uninspired and ineffectual. Claimed Gretchen Whitmer was bought and sold.
In a discrimination lawsuit, El-Sayed was accused of telling a woman he didn't want to work with anyone over 40. And an employee said he was offered payment to keep silent after witnessing El-Sayed disparaging women.
A history of disrespecting women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: What do you say to the people that put that ad together about what they say about your record?
EL-SAYED: Let's talk about the people who put that ad together. You didn't play the part where they said UDP is responsible for the content of this advertising. UDP is AIPAC's super PAC.
They've already spent $30 million to boost my opponent, and they've realized that they're still not getting where they want to go, so they've decided to take a really disparaging below-the-belt character attack on me. I've spent my whole career fighting with and alongside women for women's health. That's been my work at the Detroit Health Department and leading Wayne County's Department of Health, Human and Veterans Services.
But the reason that they're playing this out, the reason that they're going to blanket the airwaves with this is because they want to trick us into thinking that the best possible outcome for our tax dollars is to continue to send them abroad to kill women and children in Gaza and Iran and Lebanon instead of spending that money like we did when I was in Wayne County's Department of Health, Human and Veterans Services, actually providing women's health care, providing for children, and building a kind of America that we need and deserve.
That has been the work that AIPAC has done for a very long time. Michiganders know who I am. They know my record. They know how I show up, and I'm confident that come Election Day, they're going to swipe aside a lot of these terrible attack ads and choose with their hearts where they want their tax dollars to be spent on them and their kids.
HUNT: When you said that you hope that AIPAC could teach Stevens how to string two coherent sentences together, do you regret how you phrase that at all? Is that the right way to put it? EL-SAYED: Obviously, Congresswoman Stevens is really smart, which is why it's so surprising that whenever you ask her why, for example, she took a trip to Portugal, paid for by Center Forward, one of the super PACs that is playing in this election, to Portugal with her mom, why she took that trip, why she's taking $30 million from AIPAC, where her money comes from, she struggles to explain what that's -- what that is.
And so I just think it's really important for us to get a clear explanation of where that money's coming from and what she's promised to these corporations and super PACs, including AIPAC, about what she plans to do for them when she's in office.
HUNT: Do you want to see the super PAC supporting you air negative ads like they've now said they're planning to do?
Obviously, I don't coordinate with them, but you're talking about the National Nurses United, the UAW, Working Families Party. These are folks who are trying to push back against the mis- and disinformation that you just saw from AIPAC.
So at the end of the day, I would rather not engage in negative campaigning at all. I don't do it on my campaign. We're focused on talking about getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket, passing Medicare for All, standing up with and for women, doing the work that builds in America, where everybody knows that they can get the healthcare they need when they need it, that they can get childcare when they need it, and that their healthcare and their economy is not dominated by a large corporation telling us what we can't have, shouldn't fight for, and have to put up with.
[16:10:02]
HUNT: Obviously, AIPAC is a big part of this conversation because Israel has become a very central topic, especially inside the Democratic Party, but nationally as well. Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?
EL-SAYED: So, Kasie, AIPAC's become a big issue in this election because AIPAC's already spent $30 million in this election. They're by far the biggest spender in the race.
Now, the question about a right to exist, it's interesting because nobody's ever asked me whether or not I believe Palestine has a right to exist. Every single president who's served has said that they believe in a two-state solution.
Israel exists. The question is whether or not we want a politics where our money is sent over to Israel to do genocide and apartheid instead of investing in our own kids.
HUNT: You say it exists, but does it have a right to?
EL-SAYED: I didn't say that. I just said the question of Israel's existence is not a question. I'm not -- I'm not going to play this gotcha game about whether or not it has a right to exist. The question ultimately is about whether or not we want a politics that dignifies.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: You're not going to play the gotcha game, but you're not going to say you think Israel has a right to exist.
EL-SAYED: Well, my question -- you know, Kasie, I think the question we all ought to ask is, does everybody have equal rights to peace, dignity, and self-determination? That's Jewish, Israelis, and Palestinians. And to me, the folks who should answer what the ultimate peace there looks like should be Jewish, Israelis and Palestinians.
I want my tax dollars spent here in Michigan to provide schools in Michigan, to build health care in Michigan, to invest in Michigan rather than to be sent abroad to kill Palestinian people due genocides and apartheid.
The question about whether or not Israel has a right to exist is actually quite secondary to whether or not they have a right to our tax dollars. And people don't ask that question in good faith.
So if you want to ask me about Palestinian right to exist, you want to ask me about what I want to do for kids in Michigan, I'm happy to answer that question. But the AIPAC and Israel have become secondary questions that too many people have to talk about because our tax dollars keep getting spent over there rather than being spent over here.
HUNT: All right. And finally, I -- I also wanted to ask you about some of the tweets that you deleted as you were in the course of this race just before, around this question of defunding the police, this is also something likely to come up in a general election, should you win this primary.
Do you stand by what you had previously said, that police -- in support of defunding the police, or do you believe police should be funded?
EL-SAYED: So, Kasie, in my time leading Wayne County's Department of Health, Human and Veteran Services, I had the responsibility of rebuilding a juvenile detention facility. I raised salaries 35 percent for workers there to make sure that the public health emergency that we had to call no longer existed.
So judge me by my work rather than some deleted tweets because --
HUNT: Why did you delete the tweets?
EL-SAYED: -- you know, you asked me across the 100 and -- I deleted all the tweets because I didn't want them to be taken out of context like this so that you could distract from the actual conversation that Michiganders really want to have about what they want their leadership to actually fight for them to do.
HUNT: Well, I think the question is just if you're leading, would you fight to defund the police or would you not? EL-SAYED: I've already told you what I did. Judge me by my work. I -- judge me by my work. I funded the system because it needed to be funded.
Too often the conversation we have is fund or defund. The question that we don't ask is what kind of system do we really want? I want us to be investing in the kinds of interventions that actually protect people, whether you're talking about people on the streets or people in law enforcement.
That means investing in recruitment and retirement for law enforcement. It also means investing in community violence intervention, investing in behavioral health response, investing in public health and anti-poverty measures. Those are things that are not mutually exclusive.
And I think this debate about 2020 and the ways that tweets are going to play are really nice on CNN, if you want to get clicks. They're not that effective and nobody really asks me about them on the streets or in communities in Michigan. So if you want to talk about housing or health care or corporate dominance in our politics, I think those are a lot more legitimate questions that people are actually asking me about what they want their next center to do in the state of Michigan rather than for clickbait in D.C.
HUNT: So voters shouldn't look at the fact that you deleted the tweets as evidence that you no longer were for the things that you said then?
(CROSSTALK)
EL-SAYED: You -- Kasie, you might -- you might --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: Listen, I understand what you're saying about --
(CROSSTALK)
EL-SAYED: I'm just talking about what I hear about from people in understand.
HUNT: I understand, I understand, but you deleted the tweets, right? That's what I'm asking you. I'm asking you about an action that you took, okay?
EL-SAYED: No, look, I'm talking about the action that I took to actually fund the juvenile detention facility to make sure that youth in that facility were safe.
Now, tweets are not quite as much of an action as the work that I did when I was in public service. But I appreciate the line of questioning. And if you want to keep doing it, that's fine.
But I'm just telling you that I think most people are more interested in whether or not you're fighting for their housing, whether or not you're fighting for their schools, whether or not you want to keep their tax dollars here at home.
HUNT: All right. And before I let you go, of course, AOC did endorse you in your race. Should we expect to see her on the campaign trail with you soon?
EL-SAYED: We're absolutely looking forward to having her. I mean, this is somebody who has redefined the way it means to fight for values about keeping money out of politics so that we can get money in pockets, passing Medicare for All. We can't wait to have her in the state. And I know that a lot of folks here in Michigan looking forward to meeting her.
HUNT: You also, of course, have campaigned alongside Hasan Piker. Do you believe that the statements that he has made about September 11th are accurate?
EL-SAYED: So, Kasie, no, I don't. But I'm also, again, you can hold me accountable for what I say and do. But I do not agree with everything anybody I've campaigned with has said. And that's just the nature of public discourse.
I campaign with folks because I want to reach the massive audience that they have to have a conversation about bringing them back to our politics. So politics that gets money out of politics, puts money in your pocket, passes Medicare for all.
So I'm grateful for a lot of the things Hasan and I agree with, but he's condemned those comments himself. I clearly don't agree with them.
But the question now is a lot more about what kind of politics do we want? Do we want a politics where folks like AIPAC or corporations can tell us who we can vote for in 30 second glossy ads by dumping $30 million into these elections? Or do we want politics where we put people into the center?
Because I believe in a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. And right now, I feel like we've gotten way too far away from that.
HUNT: All right, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, thank you very much for spending some time in THE ARENA. I really appreciate it. Hope to see you soon.
EL-SAYED: Looking forward to it.
HUNT: All right, my panel is here in THE ARENA now. CNN correspondent Arlette Saenz; CNN contributor, host of "The New York Times'" "The Interview", Lulu Garcia Navarro; Democratic strategist and former White House director of message planning, Meghan Hays is here; Republican strategist, former Mitt Romney campaign adviser, Kevin Madden is here as well.
I took up most of our panel time here with the interview, but, Arlette, I wanted to get you to weigh in there because this race, of course, is one, it's a three-way race. There are two Democratic women running. And there's a lot of concern among Democrats that if Doctor El Sayed wins, they might lose the general election. Now that said, I don't know if their track record is great necessarily.
There are a lot of things that are changing really fast in terms of what voters are looking for and willing to do. What is your analysis in the big picture as you look at all these races?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this Democratic primary is certainly the most bruising of these interparty battles this cycle, and it's really going to offer a major test of where the Democratic Party stands, whether they want to go with this progressive, who they feel has a lot of the energy in the race, or if they feel running a more moderate establishment type of candidate like Haley Stevens is the way to success in a place like Michigan.
The progressive and Democratic socialist success that we've seen in other states, I think this is how you teed up your very first question to him is exactly what's playing out here in Michigan is that they may be electing people in New York or Colorado, but Michigan is still a battleground state that has flipped between Democrats and Republicans over the past few cycles. And so the question going forward is whether a progressive candidate will be able to be successful.
HUNT: Kevin, what do you think?
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: He's going to win that primary, I'll guarantee it right now, because what he realizes, what El-Sayed realizes, is that the '25 governor races in places like New Jersey and Virginia were not outliers. Affordability, affordability, affordability, that's what Democratic voters want to hear. It's also how you kind of win the big middle.
But I think what was demonstrated by the interview is that one of the reasons he's going to be problematic in the general election is because the second that you push him on some of the more extreme views that are held by progressives inside the party, that was when he started to have a difficult time. And I think it's going to be easy for Mike Rogers, who was a half a percentage point away from winning the last time around, to really sort of drive that contrast with that big middle of the American electorate, that maybe see a candidate like that as too far outside the mainstream for them.
HUNT: Meghan?
MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah, I mean, I've worked with Haley. I've known her for almost 20 years. I think that the electability question is a real serious thing.
Mike Rogers lost by 20,000 votes. There are 35 percent independents in Michigan. They broke with Elissa Slotkin at 22 percent.
Independents are not going to break that way. So I think that Mallory needs to drop out. This needs to become a two-party race for the last month.
Haley has been the most effective Democrat in Congress. She was voted that. She's introduced 150 bills. She's not writing books on what you do. She's actually doing legislation. And so I think that that's an important thing for people to remember.
It's electability in the general.
HUNT: Meghan just said out loud all the things that Democrats will tell you behind the scenes about this race, just in case you're wondering. You want a brief last word?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, brief last word is that I couldn't disagree with you more. I actually think that the energy is for the insurgents. And I think when you hear him speaking, he's actually speaking to something which is a new vision, which I think people are really, really craving. And so I don't hold up much hope for the moderate Democrats in this particular race.
HUNT: Arlette Saenz, thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate it.
The rest of our panel will continue to be here.
Coming up next in THE ARENA, what a new poll is revealing about American pride ahead of the nation's 250th.
Plus, the indictment that was just handed down to someone who allegedly put his hand in the reflecting pool.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How do you square charging this alleged individual when this is the same Justice Department that --
JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: Already, this is a problem.
REPORTER: -- pardoned, you know, over a thousand Generation January 6 rioters who caused --
PIRRO: Are you really talking about January 6th?
REPORTER: Yes.
PIRRO: I'm not.
REPORTER: There's --
PIRRO: Okay, who's next?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: There was an effort, a violent effort, to rip up the ceiling from the bottom of the pool. And irrespective of whether or not, you know, we think that, you know, there is some situation that preceded it, we can state and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he caused damage, and that damage is over $1,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A grand jury has indicted David Hearn, the U.S. Olympian, who reached into the reflecting pool last month.
According to the indictment, Hearn has been charged with one count of destruction of property.
[16:25:05]
The felony charge carries a maximum penalty of 10 years if convicted. Hearn previously told CNN he has a science background and was curious why the paint was peeling, so felt the end and bent it around a little bit. But he maintained that there's, quote, "nothing about the reflecting pool that was in any way a different condition after I left there than it had been before I went by there yesterday. I didn't remove anything. I didn't break, tear, peel, or rip, or destroy anything."
D.C. U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro made clear that anyone who damages the monuments will be punished.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIRRO: We will not allow our sacred monuments to be roped off, defaced, or diminished, or in any way impacted by disgruntled individuals who think that they, and not the rest of the nation, have the right to decide what should happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining our panel, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, Elliot Williams.
Elliot --
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah.
HUNT: What -- have you -- how significant is this indictment exactly? What, like, what did this man, according to his side of the story, he just put his hand in the pool, poked around a little bit, left it mostly the way it was.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
HUNT: They're throwing a felony charge at him.
WILLIAMS: They're throwing a felony charge at him. Now, what he is charged with is maliciously destroying private or public property, right?
Now, the big word in that is malicious. You have to prove, and prosecutors are going to have to prove that this person intended to cause harm or intended to damage the thing of value that was more than $1,000, like the U.S. attorney had said right there. Now, look, we don't know what evidence they have, we don't know what
he said to law enforcement thereafter, but based on what we've read in news reports, sounds like a guy reached into the water. It's controversial water right now, but it sounds like you've reached into the water.
That does not, at least based on what's publicly available, rise to the level of maliciously intending to destroy property. Again, forget the vibes, forget the feelings, forget Donald Trump, forget all of that, and just look at what the law says. And the law is quite clear that you have to establish that, did he say, "I am going down there to rip it open, as he was ripping it open, saying, I am going to maliciously injure, destroy, or damaged by use of fire or force this property." Those are the kinds of things that would be necessary to convict a person. Right now, it just doesn't appear to be there.
But again --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And a felony charge as opposed to a misdemeanor and having a press conference and making this huge spectacle from a former Olympian who touched the reflecting pool, we think. We don't really know exactly what he may or may not have done, but all of this hoopla for this particular, quote/unquote, "crime" seems to me that Jeanine Pirro is trying to make an example for reasons that are political.
HUNT: Well, perhaps it's this Truth Social post. If anyone attacks any of them, they can get as much as 10 years in jail. He was talking about the reflecting pool there.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, and again, they can get up to 10 years in jail if they intended to do harm to the property and went ahead and tried to do so. Maybe they know something that you and I don't. That's what prosecution's all about. And I look forward to seeing what evidence they have.
But you have to establish that the defendant intended to cause the harm. And if someone's just reaching into water, that under no circumstance is ever going to be provable beyond a reasonable doubt in court.
Now, again, they were able to get it passed to grand juries. They have some evidence. We'll see.
HUNT: And grand juries have shown some willingness to resist some of these prosecutions, like Sandwich Guy was not indicted by the grand jury --
MADDEN: Well, that's what I'm saying, right? You can indict -- you can indict a ham sandwich, right?
WILLIAMS: It's true.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: In this case, it was a thrown sandwich, but yes. I mean, Kevin Madden, this sort of from a big picture perspective, does this not show just how focused the president is on this? And what is the level of focus that the president has on these things say about the big issues?
I think it does. I go even bigger picture, I'd say that this shows why people believe there's a huge problem with Washington, D.C., the entity. I mean, I think the entire news cycle of the Reflecting Pool, which is now about two months long, is one of the most absurd things I've ever seen.
I think showcasing it and prioritizing it from the White House was a mistake. That's absurd. I think people politicizing it both on the left and right has been absurd. I think the breathless news coverage of it has been absurd.
And I think people who are outside Washington, D.C., paying for higher housing costs, paying for higher food, worried about their kids' education, worried about healthcare. They look at all this and they think it's insane. This is why --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: They don't actually, they really don't. This is actually one of the things that has broken through. And the reason it's broken through is because the president has prioritized it himself. He's used his bully pulpit to talk about it incessantly.
Jeanine Pirro right now is using her bully pulpit to prosecute it. This is something that keeps on being brought up because why? The president presents himself as a beautifier, as someone who can fix things, as someone who can build things --
[16:30:00]
MADDEN: He brought up -- he brought up and talked about is one thing, but having it have an impact and be important and something that everybody should be focused on, entirely different.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, I couldn't agree with you more. I mystified as to why the president has consistently wanted to bring it up and talk about it and spend his, you know, very precious time elevating it, that in the ballroom and everything else. I mean, ultimately, I would say the media and many people focus on the priorities of the president. And when the president prioritizes something, people follow.
HAYS: It's also a tangible thing that people can see, right? So you can see that they tried to paint it blue like a swimming pool. You saw him drive his motorcade on it. You saw the algae growing. You see it now breaking apart.
So I think people can see the tangible effects and the taxpayer dollars that are wasted and more taxpayer dollars are going to be wasted on this trial. So I just I think that's what you're trying to say is it's breaking through because it's tangible and people can see it.
HUNT: Yeah, and it travels well on social media.
All right, coming up next year in THE ARENA, the new report that donors may have been duped ahead of America's big 250th birthday celebration.
Plus, New York City is ready for it, it being possibly the biggest wedding of this era.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're all taking a tour of all the famous Taylor spots in New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're just on a family vacation and just so happy to be vacationing during Taylor's wedding week, and just wanted to get a glimpse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that everything with MSG is like a whole decoy, and really, they're going to have everyone on jets going elsewhere. Another rumor that they're all just meeting at MSG and then going to go in the underground tunnels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:35:55]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALD R. FORD, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: It is fitting that we ask ourselves hard questions, even on a glorious day like today. Are the institutions under which we live working the way they should? Are the foundations laid in 1776 and 1789 still strong enough and sound enough to resist the tremors of our times?
The world knows where we stand. The world is ever conscious of what Americans are doing, for better or for worse. Because the United States today remains the most successful realization of humanity's universal hope.
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HUNT: That was President Gerald Ford giving an address outside Independence Hall in Philadelphia on the occasion of our country's bicentennial celebration in 1976. Ford was speaking to a weary nation still simmering from the Vietnam War and in the wake of the Watergate scandal. Yet, in 1976, the country put on a show for its 200th birthday. Decorations, parades everywhere.
Fast forward 50 years, and the celebratory spirit is there for sure, but broadly speaking, U.S. citizens seem to have caught, should we call them the red, white, and blues? New polling showing that just 58 percent of U.S. adults say they are extremely or very proud to be an American. It's a pretty significant change.
Party breakdown of those numbers shows the dip is driven by independents and Democrats whose pride has dropped to new lows.
Joining our panel here in THE ARENA, CNN senior political and global affairs commentator Rahm Emanuel.
Rahm, how do you explain what we're seeing here? This is obviously, you know, pride in America is something that certainly people, conservatives are quick to criticize or note if they feel like the left doesn't show enough of it, doesn't feel proud of the country. It's quick to be used as a political wedge. But these polling numbers are pretty stark in terms of how people are feeling about the country.
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I mean, well, they're stark in this way. You have both Democrats and independents both having that expression. And I would just say, look, I'm a patriot in America.
Do I think it's perfect? No. Do I think it continually has to work? towards beginning towards that perfection, and it's a never-ending process? Yes. But when you think back over the last 25 years, you've had four major breaks in America where a lot of Americans feel like the people at the top left them behind. In the Iraq War, 2002, built on a lie based on some yellow cake from Niger that never existed, and nobody responsible for that lie ever paid a price.
Four years later, you had the major financial scandal and seven million fellow Americans lose their home and bankers are yelling for their bonuses when they didn't deserve them.
And then four years later, when China joins the WTO and Xi comes to power, you have Beijing, or let me say it this way, Battle Creek taking on Beijing all by themselves with no protection.
And then six years later, you had COVID, major disruption in people's lives and people and Americans overall of all walks of life left holding the bag and those at the top walking away scot-free. So it can shake your foundation.
Now, take a look at them I would say the opposite is a rebuttal to that. Take a look at the American soccer team that's really grabbed the imagination American people. People from all parts of this world whose family came to this country because they saw the promise of tomorrow. And that promise we have to bring to more people, because they think the light's gone out from that.
But I think, look at the soccer team, and I said, that renews -- you know, 100 years ago, my grandfather came here with nothing, but not a bucket to spit in and a window to throw it out of. And his grandchildren have been able to achieve great things, and that's only possible in this country.
HUNT: Rahm, do you think that this is another example of the divided nature of where we are?
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Like, is this number right? Our numbers show, what, 36 percent of Democrats say now that they are extremely or very proud of being Americans. Is that just because there's a Republican in the White House? I mean, does that change if there's a Democrat that gets elected?
EMANUEL: You know, look, there's no doubt about 10, 15 years ago that even like on economic questions, you have a more partisan split and more party split. I would say on this question, two things. One is not a lot of difference between Democrat's views and independents, a slight difference, but not major, where they have lost that sense of what America means.
And once you pull the rug from underneath the American people on the capacity, when you and I grew up saying we're going to do better, it was really against the benchmark of our parents. That's not true.
So people can get very cynical. I don't think you should be allowed that citizen to become a way of life and a philosophy, because I think what has happened is the American dream has actually been taken out of reach for the American people, and only a few select children get that.
Two, do I think there's a partisan piece? Yes, but I don't think it explains it. I happen to think when you look through the rearview mirror the last 25 years, there are four major disruptive events that have shaken the foundation of this country, and we've never really recovered from it and done it in a holistic way where everybody feels valued and has a sense where that the country's looking out for their best being.
That, to me, is the core problem. It's not a partisan issue, although you can see that lens. It's a bigger problem that, if you looked at it only partisan, blind you from some of A, analysis of the problem, and B, what are some of the solutions for them, Kasie?
HUNT: Kevin Madden, how do you explain kind of the change here?
MADDEN: Well, I do. I think it is a reflection of just rising partisanship. I think the reason that the middle has sort of migrated away from that right now is it's sort of just a rejection of the questions of American unity overall. I think that he can easily get back. I think they can be appealed to.
I think that's one of the biggest opportunities that you have in this political environment right now is we've lost this ability to sort of rally around the flag, to really bring the country together on big events and really speak to the big middle of the American electorate, and also talk about the country and its future in aspirational terms.
And there's an opportunity there for, I think, a leader, a party movement within either party to really sort of speak to that and bring and reverse these numbers, quite frankly.
HUNT: Meghan?
HAYS: I think it's hard when you have a president that's constantly calling Democrats dumb or always insulting half the country. Like, half the country is Democrats or independents. And I think that it's hard when you see your commander-in-chief and the person who's leading our country constantly criticizing you and constantly putting you down to have a lot of pride in what we're doing. But I agree with you that it can be turned around. And I think that people their economic struggles also a huge concern, because they don't know what they're looking forward to, and you don't have reason to buy a house. It's so much harder.
And so, it's unfortunate that we're in this situation, especially at such a monumentous occasion. But, you know, these things are full of seasons, and we will come back full circle.
HUNT: Well, we've talked about the partisan split, but we can also put this Gallup polling up by generation which also, I think, kind of illuminates some of what Rahm was talking about a second ago. The silent generation, of course, which was born right around before the end of World War II, essentially, over 80 percent still. Baby boomers up there as well.
Now, you look down -- that graph, it shows you Gen Z, and it's down at 40 percent, Elliot Williams. And -- I mean, for I'm a millennial, right? It's a little higher there. I mean, a lot of, you know, Gen Z was born in 1997. They probably don't remember 9/11, but they remember a lot of the events that Rahm was just walking through.
WILLIAMS: Right. And I think, you know, there's a general. loss of faith in institutions that, we've all been talking about this, has been trending down over time, and these are younger folks who are coming up.
I mean, I think -- you know, I just want to pick up on Kevin's point. I think you're exactly right. It's not -- it's striking that it's Democrats and Independents. I don't think it's about a Republican president.
It is about Trump. It is about the rhetoric. It is about the conduct and the behavior and literally openly saying people who aren't with us hate America and don't like America.
Of course, there's going to be a backlash to that, but I just don't think, I don't want to be so is to say this is a Democrat-Republican thing. It's an everybody thing and a Trump thing.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to take a little bit of a different view. I actually think the Democratic Party writ large has stepped away from the rallying around the flag. They have allowed Republicans to own patriotism.
I mean, if you see an American flag now you are going to assume that that person is a Republican and you are not --
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HUNT: Are we really there?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, we're really there and you are not going to assume --
HUNT: We are on the coast. I think we are in Middle America.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think -- I think in a lot of ways where -- I think in a lot of ways -- I think in some ways we are and I do think that there -- we are raising a generation especially in schools where we do not teach them the value of civics, we do not teach them the value of engaging in a sense of patriotism.
I'm from -- I'm an immigrant. I come from an immigrant family. You talk to immigrants. There is an enormous sense of pride in this country.
You come to when you are swearing -- doing your swearing-in ceremony, and it is just like an enormously prideful moment. But I do think we've lost that sense of unity and that sense of pride around the flag.
HUNT: Rahm?
EMANUEL: When I was ambassador, we did a naturalization on the Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier, 17 people from 11 countries, three different continents, who, before they were citizens, served America, its national security, and more importantly, its principles and values.
And all of those people volunteered to join America, even though they didn't have all the rights of being America. I think the most important thing, remembering not just that we have rights as a country, but we have responsibilities with citizenship.
And this is a cynical moment because of what happened recently, but I think the power of America is its ability to always renew.
HUNT: All right. Rahm Emanuel, thank you, as always. Really appreciate you being here. See you soon, I hope.
The rest of our panel --
RAHM: Thank you, Kasie. Happy Fourth.
HUNT: Happy Fourth of July.
Ahead here in THE ARENA, how New York City is preparing for America's royal wedding amid this cruel summer heat wave.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm picking up my sister from town. She's coming into town. And we -- she's a Taylor Swift fan. And we're going to come down here and see what's up. But if it's going to be all private and they're not going to let us through, and it's hot outside, I think I'll watch from TV.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my gosh, all the Taylor Swift, all the Swifties out here. Ruined her own. Come on, she's going to be a bride. It's the best. Go New York, because we winning.
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HUNT: She's in her wedding era.
We're less than two hours away from Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's rehearsal dinner at Madison Square Garden.
All week, crews have been braving the treacherous heat from this cruel summer to give MSG a bejeweled makeover for the lovers' wedding celebration. So far, few have gotten a look behind the curtain. Many of the items being delivered to the venue have been secretly packed away in crates or shrouded in massive sheets, leading fans to ask, will the world's most famous arena have enough style for their showgirl?
We are also learning about the security measures that are in place for the event. As a law enforcement official tells CNN, the plan calls for heavy weapons teams including long guns, K9 units and emergency service units. Okay, well, that's a hard turn away from fun and into something else.
CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins our panel.
John, it's great to see you.
Of course, New York is saying welcome to New York. Talk a little bit though about the security. I mean, MSG, in many ways, is there a better -- could there even be a better venue where they would be prepared to put security together like this? Clearly, it's a top concern.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well there probably couldn't be a better venue for what Taylor Swift is looking for, which is three things. They're looking for security, they're looking for control, which the venue offers them, and they're looking for privacy. And that means privacy from paparazzi, from stalkers, from fans, you know, that can be overwhelming when you're trying to do a family event with friends and loved ones.
The thing about Madison Square Garden is It's a sealed container, right? It's not a stadium. You can't fly over it with a drone. You can't get a helicopter like a wedding in somebody's Beverly Hills backyard. You can't surround it with photographers with the way they've set it up.
And that is based on her relationship with Madison Square Garden, which she's played many times over the last decade or more. You know, her relationship of her organization to the management and the relation of the management to the to their security team in NYPD, just made this the ultimate good choice.
HUNT: Yeah, I was going to ask you about the NYPD. I mean, this is a venue that they secure regularly. I mean, what kind of role are they playing here?
MILLER: Well, you'll remember they had Taylor Swift there at one of the Knicks games, and before that they had Donald Trump there at one of the Knicks games. When I was deputy commissioner, we had to get Donald Trump in and out of there in a UFC fight.
So, also, I remember, you know, we had the pope there, and we were able to secure that.
Madison Square Garden is a known quantity, but what the NYPD will do for this event, as they did for the president or the pope, but for different reasons, is they'll have the crowd control element. That's going to be hundreds of cops in case thousands of fans show up. But they'll also have what we call the counter-terrorism overlay. And that's where you get heavy weapons team, rapid response teams, you know, a forward element from the bomb squad in many cases, so that if something comes up, they have a quick response.
You have to remember, Taylor Swift doesn't have a lot of enemies. She has a lot of fans, but she's also been a target. After the attack on the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England, around 2018, you know, she really thought about revamping her security, not just for her protection, but for the protection of her fans at those events.
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And after her global tour, after the national tour in Vienna, on August 7th, 2024, there was an ISIS plot to attack that stadium during her three-night concert there with 200,000 fans over those three nights. That was thwarted. An individual was arrested and convicted. Two other suspects were questioned. One was charged.
And one of them was an inside man, an employee of the venue who was looked at very closely. That's when she decided to really increase the level of security and the layers of security to account for things beyond stalkers and aggressive fans, to account for the kinds of things we're looking at today.
HUNT: All right. John Miller, thank you, sir. Very much appreciate you, as always.
All right, we'll be right back.
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HUNT: All right. Thanks to my panel.
"THE LEAD", anchored by Pamela Brown, starts right now.
