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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Lindsey Graham's Sister Named To Temporarily Fill His Senate Seat; Judge: Trump Sued IRS For "Improper Purpose"; NYT Denounces Trump Admin, Says DOJ Subpoenas Of Reporters Over Air Force One Story Is "Brazen Act"; One Person Killed In ICE-Involved Shooting In Maine. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 13, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:02]
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And again, there'll be an election that is being held, and that's supposed to be August 11th, a special primary election.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's some critical votes that she would be taking.
ZELENY: Sure.
KEILAR: So we should keep our eye on that.
Jeff, thank you so much.
ZELENY: Sure.
KEILAR: Really appreciate it.
THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to THE ARENA. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Monday.
As we come on the air, we're standing by for a major announcement. Any moment now, the governor of South Carolina is going to unveil who he's chosen to fill the Senate seat that was opened by the sudden and tragic passing of Lindsey Graham over the weekend.
Right now, the Senate is back in session with Graham's colleagues currently speaking. remembering his more than 30 years in Congress. You can also see Graham's desk draped in black, covered with flowers.
This morning, President Donald Trump urged the South Carolina governor to pick Graham's younger sister, Darline, as a, quote, "fabulous tribute to Lindsey, who loved her dearly," end quote. Darline Graham Nordone also has the backing of the Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, and of South Carolina's other senator, Tim Scott. Darline was close to her brother, having been raised by him after the death of both of their parents when she was a young teen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARLINE GRAHAM NORDONE, SISTER OF LINDSEY GRAHAM: I can remember the day my father passed away standing in the living room of that house, absolutely scared to death, and Lindsey wrapped his arms around me and promised me that he would always be there for me and always take care of me, and I can assure you he's done that. He has never let me down.
When I needed Lindsey, he put my interest ahead of his own. In politics, he has done the same thing -- putting the country's interest ahead of his own political interest.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Of all the things that have happened in my life, her turning out so well is the highlight of it. If she took a roll on, she would be a great representative of our country. I can't think of a better person to represent our country in an event than my sister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, let's go off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is going to be here, but we're going to get started with CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju.
And, Manu, forgive me if I have to interrupt you. We are, of course, waiting for the governor to start talking any minute here. But in the meantime, tell us what you've been hearing today on the Hill and how, of course, the passing of Senator Graham might change some of these issues that the Hill is grappling with now that we'll need to get figured out pretty soon.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, this is the Senate that is still in a state of disbelief, someone who had been so central to so many fights on Capitol Hill and, of course, had just traveled to Ukraine and was expected to come back and make a major push for a Russia sanctions bill, suddenly dying, someone who has been so close to both Republicans and Democrats alike. Even as he battled furiously with Democrats in public settings and sometimes in private settings, he also worked across the aisle with them over so many years, so few fights in which he was not a part of either publicly or privately behind the scenes trying to negotiate deals or providing critical votes to get legislation across the finish line.
And his departure now leaves a significant void also over some key committee assignments. Remember, this is a body that was that is determined by seniority, not just relationships, but seniority as well. And given the seniority of Lindsey Graham, he has some powerful positions. He chaired a critical committee, the Senate Budget Committee, would be central, a point person to pushing through President Trump's effort to try to rewrite the nation's election laws. That was something that he was, Lindsey Graham and the president were in talks with. That's what the president is now going to try to focus on in the final weeks before the August recess.
But also there's a key Congress Senate hearing coming up this week in the Senate Judiciary Committee. Lindsey Graham, of course, playing a critical role that committee that hearing for Todd Blanche to be the next Attorney General of the United States and who will take up the mantle on the GOP side to try to push through that bill to impose stiff new sanctions on Russia.
Lindsey Graham had just said a couple of days ago, on Friday in Ukraine, while visiting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy, that, indeed, the White House had signed on to that legislative effort to slap those stiff new sanctions on Russia. But the president has yet to come out and formally call for that and to push for that passage in the wake of Lindsey Graham's death. Will anything change there on the legislative front?
And that's just a taste of the variety of things that Lindsey Graham was deeply involved with, and it's also not just on the legislative front, but just on the personal front, someone who had been so close to so many members for some time, which is why the Senate coming into session today for the first time since Lindsey Graham's death, and we expect a flood of speeches on the Senate floor from Democrats and Republicans alike, remembering someone who played such an instrumental role, not just in the Senate, not just in these legislative battles, but also in their own lives, many of them traveling around the world with him in these congressional delegations as we now await to see who will fill his seat over the next couple of months before another senator is elected in November to fill out his full six-year term.
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HUNT: Yeah, well, and of course, Manu, he was just an absolute fixture on the Hill. The number of scrums you and I stood in when we were on you know different networks talking to him you know laughing you know he had such a sense of humor and he really was ubiquitous and you're right to point out that the loss is just absolutely stunning and anyway we're going to continue to remember him here but we're going to go to the governor of South Carolina now he is speaking introducing Lindsey Graham's replacement.
GOV. HENRY MCMASTER (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: -- I and the family thank all of you for coming here today. We meet in sadness over the loss of One of South Carolina's greatest sons. He will also gather together to celebrate what this self-described poor boy from a small town, rural town in South Carolina accomplished. Through grit, determination and character, for his state, for his country, and for his world.
Lindsey Graham recognized the greatest -- the greatness of America and her obligations to a dangerous world. Lindsey Graham recognized the seriousness of his work, but also the value of humor and a light- hearted spirit. Lindsey Graham understood the hopes, dreams, and needs of his state and delivered for his state every time.
Presidents, paupers, famous or forgotten, he treated -- he treated us all the same. We have seen him attack evil and injustice and embrace friendship and the common good with equal fervor and strength. Yes, we are going to miss Lindsey, but we will always remember his quickness, his laugh, and what he has done for us and the world, as he described himself, this poor boy from a little town in South Carolina. Today, under the law, it's my duty to -- and honor to name someone to
serve in the place of this irresistible man, this irreplaceable man, this extraordinary man for the remainder of his term. Lindsey took care of his little sister in years long departed.
It's my honor to ask his little sister, Darline Graham, to finish his work for him now. And by the way, Darline, I don't know if I told you, but after we spoke on the phone in the wee hours of Sunday morning, and you agreed to serve through tears, earlier, I had wondered what she would say, and I was humbled by your quickness to see the duty that you had to serve.
And I called the president afterwards, and he thought it was a great idea. And I'm sure that everyone here does as well. Darline, little sister, come forward, please.
(APPLAUSE)
DARLINE GRAHAM NORDONE, LINDSEY GRAHAM'S SISTER, NAMED TO TEMPORARILY FILL SENATE SEAT: Thank you, Governor, and just bear with me as I try to get through this. But first, I just want to say one thing I've never heard Lindsey described as is irresistible. So, okay, we'll just start with that.
But first, I would like to thank everyone who has called and reached out over the past couple of days. I can't tell you how much it's meant to me and our family. I know Lindsey was loved and respected by many, and I greatly appreciate the memories and even the funny stories that have been shared. These shared experiences, along with our faith, have gotten us through these past two very difficult days.
Next, I want to thank the governor for selecting me to serve the remainder of Lindsey's term. It is such an honor. Lindsey has always been there for me, and now I will be there for him. My brother was the most amazing person, outstanding leader, and just a genuinely good man. He was kind and considerate and loved by his family dearly.
As I think everyone would agree, Lindsey worked harder than anyone.
[16:10:02]
He worked nonstop to make our state, country, and world better. He loved his family and loved serving the state and our country. He dedicated his life to our country. It is such a privilege to get to finish some of his important work, and I promise to work hard over the next several months to support the president and carry forward the efforts of my brother on behalf of the citizens of South Carolina and the United States. I know Lindsey thought the world of his staff and colleagues, and with their support, I feel confident.
I think this is what Lindsey would have wanted, and I plan to honor him in this way.
Now to Lindsey, I miss you more than I can even put into words. But I'm going to do this. I got it. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
MCMASTER: That concludes this ceremony. Thank you.
HUNT: Quite a touching moment there from Lindsey Graham's sister, Darline, who he, of course, helped to raise after the sudden death of both of their parents when she was a young teenager. Now, she says, of course, she's going to step in to his shoes and finish his term.
All right, my panel is here in THE ARENA. CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; Capitol Hill correspondent for "Puck News", Marianna Sotomayor, former Democratic congresswoman from Florida, Debbie Mucarsel-Powell -- Mucarsel-Powell; along with CNN senior political commentator and former Trump campaign advisor David Urban.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
David, do you want to share some memories you have of Lindsey Graham?
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, they're not fit for television. Listen, Senator Graham, his sister did a very nice job there. Very, very sweet lady under tough circumstances, shared his self-deprecation. She started and said, you know, she kind of lightened the mood by saying, you know, it's never heard my brother referred to as irresistible. Whatever, whatever she said, it was very cute.
Senator Graham, I got to know him a little bit in the beginning, in the beginning of his career, in 1998, when he was one of the House managers for the Clinton impeachment. And then in 2002, he came to the Senate. I used to be Senator Specter's chief of staff. I was leaving when he was coming to replace Senator Thurman.
But over the years, I've hosted him in my neighborhood for fundraisers. I've traveled with him on fundraising trips. And he was a funny guy who was acerbic wit, know -- was principled enough to stick to his guns in conservative issues, but yet still believed in bipartisanship and working across the aisle, something that's disappearing in this town and you know and hopeful whoever fills his seat will kind of try to keep that legacy going. One of the laughs of the three amigos there was very famous --
HUNT: Yeah, John McCain, Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham.
URBAN: Lindsey Graham.
And so, you know, Lindsey Graham had the ability to, you know, kind of buck the president, but cajole the president. And so that's going to be missed. I mean, there's so many things about Lindsey Graham that's going to be missed with this president and this point in time in American history. It's going to be tough to see who's going to fill those shoes.
HUNT: It is. Let's go back in time to 1998, which is the period David was referencing, and hear from -- we found Lindsey Graham talking about what he wanted to be remembered for at the end of his career. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If I followed the polls, I could sit up here and rant and rave and become governor at home. I don't want to be governor that way. I want to be a good congressman who, 30 years from now, not just 30 days from now, people thought did the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, 30 years from now, people thought did the right thing. And, you know, as David Urban alluded to, Lindsey Graham had a number of political lives, if you will. He was, of course, very close with John McCain, who was very much a critic of our current president. And Lindsey Graham has endured or had endured criticism for then cozying up to Donald Trump in the wake of January 6th.
But I think as we, you know, remember him and kind of look ahead, see there they were together. That's the three amigos there. If we fast forward from 1998 to 2015, this was a period where Lindsey Graham is now running for president, because you may remember, he ran for president in the 2016 campaign, the one, of course, where Donald Trump ultimately won the Republican primary.
But this also really encapsulates Lindsey Graham, if you knew the man, because he said that the way he was going to solve all our problems was to put a bar in the White House. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: You know what Reagan and O'Neill did? They sat down and actually got to know each other.
[16:15:00]
They had a drink. When I get to be president, we're going to open up a bar in the White House. We're going to get liquored up and solve problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Just to be clear, that's what Lindsey Graham did in his political life. He got liquored up and tried to solve problems.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's kind of funny. I'm remembering a story of dealing with Lindsey Graham's staff way back when I worked on the Hill. I swear to God, it was a fight over immigration. Senators are going at it. They're all mad at each other.
I texted Lindsey Graham's chief counsel, chief of staff said, you know what, you and me, a pepperoni pizza and a six-pack and we could solve this in 15 minutes. And he sort of laughed and said, yeah, we'd still have two beers left over.
And I just think there is, I mean, we chuckle about it. I think people around the country get frustrated when they see sort of all the fighting and then realize that everybody's chummy behind the scenes. But, you know, Lindsey Graham, what -- two things here. One, Lindsey Graham was certainly. at the center of all the -- pretty much everything, right? And even in ways that the public didn't see. That's point one.
And I think on a personal point, prayers to his sister. And having lost a sibling recently, I can say --
HUNT: I'm sorry.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, but, you know, you put on a good face and try to power through. I can see the pain that she's in. Hopefully, she serves people of South Carolina well.
I mean, you don't have to go to work the next day. She's choosing to, but it isn't -- and I assure you, it's an immensely hard place to be. I just wish her the best.
HUNT: Congresswoman, you, of course, you did not overlap in the House, but when you were in the House, he was of course in the Senate, kind of a larger than life --
DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL (D), FORMER FLORIDA CONGRESSWOMAN: And I met him, and he was always a true gentleman, I have to say this. I was shocked yesterday, like so many of us. I couldn't believe it. And I think it's important to recognize the humanity that exists behind the members. I'm thinking a lot about the staff. I am thinking about his sister, but the chief of staff, the legislative aide, the staff assistant, the scheduler, people that were truly dedicated to him, working for him, for the people of South Carolina.
HUNT: He had a very loyal and long-serving staff.
MUCARSEL-POWELL: Yes. And because he was genuine, and there were so many things that I didn't agree with him. But I did meet him a couple of times, and he was always very charming, a gentleman.
And what I respected from him is that he was very outspoken on supporting Ukraine in this war of Russia against Ukraine. He was very much dedicated. He was just with President Zelenskyy, came back, made a phone call to the president to make sure that the United States continued to stand behind Ukraine. And I applaud him for that.
And what I'm going to miss is someone that really represented the institution, which is a senator that is able to reach across the aisle. And we need that now more than ever.
HUNT: Marianna, it's tragic, but in some ways fitting that the last public thing he did was go to Kyiv and meet Zelenskyy.
MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR, CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK NEWS: Yeah, it's almost like we're all shocked by this news, but when you heard that piece, that he had just come back, that is not surprising at all. I mean, this is in part going to be a big part of his legacy. And the thing that I'm hearing now on the Hill is that there is this renewed momentum, there already was, to try and pass this Russia sanctions bill, but there really is this bipartisan fervor, even on the House side. Like, the Senate can do this, and it does pass overwhelmingly, I mean, the House can easily put it on the floor, and this could become, again, another example of his legacy in legislative form.
I think there is that will, because of all that he has done, all the lives that he's touched, and all the legislation that he has helped shape to just give him this one final --
HUNT: Kasie, in the practical matter, you know, the president called in yesterday to Jake's show and said, you know, when I had really tough issues in the Senate with Democrats, I call Lindsey and he helped solve them, right? And now that person's gone, right?
So that is not to be understated how big a deal that is, right? That the president doesn't have to be, he feels that he can trust, that he's an ally that calls with and hangs out with, that he can call and say, hey, can you help me work on this, right? And so --
HUNT: And also, Lindsey Graham was the kind of person who understood the political dynamics, even if --
URBAN: Yeah, the three-dimensional chess of it all.
HUNT: Right. And he could say, OK, well, this is who we should talk to move X or Y or Z in a sophisticated way. It certainly has left an enormous hole, now to be, of course, filled by his sister, who will serve out the remainder of his term.
Coming up next here in THE ARENA, the Justice Department and the FBI are now getting involved in an investigation into "The New York Times". Several reporters are now facing subpoenas over a story about the new Air Force One.
But first, the stunning ruling today from a federal court. A judge saying the president tried to, quote, manipulate the judicial process when he sued the IRS, and suggests his lawyers could face their own punishment over the lawsuit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROSA DELAURO (D-CT): Part of the settlement, which you've said, which is this immunity for the president and his family and his business, et cetera. That stands. Thank you,
TODD BLANCHE, ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's not immunity, ma'am. It's --
[16:20:00]
DELAURO: Thank you.
BLANCHE: It's a promise.
DELAURO: It's immunity.
BLANCHE: It's not immunity. It's not immunity. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
A federal judge today blasting President Trump's lawsuit against the IRS, saying it was filed to, quote, "manipulate the judicial process". That lawsuit led to an attempt by the Justice Department to create a nearly $1.8 billion so-called anti-weaponization fund that would benefit the president's allies. It was also used to justify an order shielding the president, his family, and his businesses from IRS scrutiny on past tax returns.
[16:25:00]
Now the judge is referring Trump's personal attorney, who brought the case, and top Justice Department officials to state bar associations for potential disciplinary action.
CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joins me now.
So, Evan, this was a 56-page ruling. Walk us through it. What stands out? Why is it so important?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie, you don't normally see judges issue 56 pages of just scathing. You know, she was truly mad at the Justice Department and at Todd Blanch, the attorney general in particular, in part because what she was calling out was a fraud on the court. This was an attempt she says, by the Justice Department, by the Trump administration, to essentially have a blessing of the courts on a deal that wasn't really an adverse proceeding, which is what would make a lawsuit.
And so she calls it all out. I'll read you just a part of what she writes. She says, this lawsuit was not brought to vindicate rights. It was brought to manipulate the judicial process to pursue benefits unavailable in litigation because the parties were not adverse. And then she goes on later on to say that the nature of the suit itself and the conduct of the parties and counsel from its filing make plain that this was an attempt to use the court to provide some legitimacy to an agreement to confirm unity to people and entities affiliated with the president and to earmark billions of dollars from American taxpayers to redress grievances not defined in the law.
Again, those are very, very strong words from a judge. As you pointed out, she is sanctioning the lawyers involved, which could be an issue. Of course, we know Todd Blanch is due for a Senate proceeding, a Senate hearing for his nomination to be the attorney general permanently. That is coming up on Wednesday.
But longer term, Kasie, what the -- what this means is probably more meaningful for the president and his companies, his sons, because if there is any investigation that comes up, let's say after Donald Trump leaves office, and they try to use this so-called agreement, this settlement, to say, no, you can't look at us, what this judge is saying is that you can't even refer to that.
Now, I'm not sure whether she has the power to do this. But she's basically saying that since this lawsuit was a farce from the beginning, you can't now call this a settlement in good faith.
HUNT: All right. Evan Perez reporting for us -- Evan, thank you, as always. Really appreciate it.
My panel's here, and we're also joined now by CNN's senior law enforcement analyst, the former deputy director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe.
Andy McCabe, what do you see in what the judge has done here? And what would you underscore as this potentially goes forward? Because as Evan said, it's not clear exactly what power the judge has here, how this materially affects things. But certainly, it is, at the very least, a symbolic blow to a president who cares quite a bit about symbolism.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Oh, it's a strong symbolic blow. It's also potentially much more than that, depending on where these referrals about the attorneys involved, where that stuff goes. But, Kasie, the thing that jumps out to me here is many people were surprised by the creation of this fund to compensate the president's supporters. Many people were shocked by the conveyance of immunity, despite the current acting attorney general's rejection of that term, immunity for tax problems.
But the judge here went far beyond that. She looked at the actual factual circumstances in the way that this sort of fake lawsuit has made its way through the process and really relied on those for her conclusion. So in other words, the Department of Justice never actually answered the complaint in this matter, which enabled this thing to just kind of hover, assign to a judge, but it never actually took on the form of a lawsuit in which a matter is of controversy and two sides are fighting over it.
They never filed a complaint. The plaintiff allowed them to get away with that, and that gave the of the ability to basically dismiss the lawsuit without getting the judge's approval, which is exactly what happened here in return for these very suspicious agreements.
Another great point is that there were many other victims of this IRS problem. So the person who inappropriately shared the tax information of citizens did it not just for Donald Trump and his family, but for many other people as well. Some of those folks filed lawsuits, and the Department of Justice jumped in and defended the IRS in every one of those suits. They could have done the exact same thing here, as the president was a very similar plaintiff, but of course, they objected they decided not to.
So there were all kinds of facts in the background here that really made this entire thing look like exactly what it was, and that is a fraud on the court.
[16:30:03]
HUNT: Yeah, remarkable.
And Elliot Williams, you pointed out this piece of what the judge had to say, and it was aimed squarely at the acting attorney general. Acting Attorney General Blanche's apparent capacity to speak for both plaintiffs and defendants, sign a settlement document on behalf of all parties and then repudiate part of that agreement demonstrates that there was actually only one party whose interests were being represented throughout this case, which is a fundamental perversion of how the system is supposed to work.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, let me tell you a secret. Judges love making things go away without actually having to address the underlying thing. If you notice, this really wasn't a suit about the propriety of the fund. It really was about-- or at least this dismissal was, do you have two parties here and you can't sue yourself and then settle against yourself?
And they walked a few things. Number one, there's a point early in some litigation where she asks Alina Habba, Trump's attorney, who's the victim here, which is, well, it's Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been victimized here. And then the judge walks through all of the places in which it's clear that Donald Trump oversees the other party, which is the Treasury Department. He is Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary's boss.
For all of those reasons, there just simply was not an actual lawsuit. It was like a legal fiction. And so, yes, it's sort of in the weeds and not the sexy stuff that we talk about, whether it's Trump for politics, but sometimes you just don't get a lawsuit.
HUNT: Well, but listen, Todd Blanche is about to face Congress, right, in a hearing, a confirmation hearing. It's, of course, going to look different with the passing of Lindsey Graham.
But I mean, big picture, Congresswoman, this is one of many examples where the president has tried to use our system to benefit himself in ways that then the legal system has had to scramble to catch up to.
MUCARSEL-POWELL: Yeah, and that's exactly, I think, the point here. It's not just about the IRS. It's not just about this one case. It's the pattern that we've seen here, and it's that the executive branch, the president, is trying to use the power of his office to actually negotiate deals to benefit himself.
And one of the things that the judge says in this case, which I think it's very important to keep in mind, is that the court has to be bound by the Constitution. Congress is bound by the Constitution, the same as the executive. You can't have a president abuse the power of his office to try and benefit that office for himself. And the judge says that as well.
And so Todd Blanche is going to be facing Congress members, senators that are going to be questioning whether he's working for the American people, or is he working for one person in the executive branch, President Donald Trump. And that's not the way that these agencies should function. They
should be independent, working for the American people, not for the president.
HUNT: David, how would you think about this?
URBAN: Yeah, look, I think that what happened is the -- and I'm not privy to any of this insider, but I think they came up with this fund idea, then they backed themselves into it. They said, OK, we want to have this fund. How do we get there? And they created this legal fiction, as Elliot points out, right? It's not -- it can't even really exist in a court of law. And so they tried to make that happen. And clearly, it's not going to happen.
And then the fund itself became this -- the president is very smart on these 80/20 issues. The fund became a 20/80 issue, right? It really backfired. And the administration had to walk away from it quietly.
But the interesting part here is the underlying no -- no going after the family, et cetera, et cetera, on future tax evasion. That's the part that still is yet to be determined. The $1.8 billion, maybe that was like, look at the shiny spoon, and the real prize was -- like, no future liability, like, we're not going to know.
And this doesn't answer that. So a lot of still unanswered questions here.
HUNT: Yeah, for sure.
All right, everybody stand by, including Andy McCabe, who's going to stick with us for the next block.
Coming up next year, new details about a deadly ICE-involved shooting today. It's the second such incident in less than a week.
Plus, what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is announcing as the Trump administration escalates an investigation into a story about the security of the new Air Force One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The security of our nation cannot be a bargaining chip for those who seek momentary headlines. Access to confidential and secret information is a sacred trust. And those who betray that trust will be met with the full force of the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:52]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: When a leak of department information occurs today, it's critical that we provide the Department of Justice and other partners in federal law enforcement, including the FBI, with actionable information as quickly as possible. And that's why the Department of War and the Department of Justice have created a joint task force to identify and prosecute leakers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announcing the creation of a new federal joint task force to go after people who leak sensitive government information. That announcement comes just days after the Justice Department issued subpoenas to multiple "New York Times" journalists for their reporting on the defense capabilities of the Qatari-donated jet that is now used as Air Force One.
Sources tell CNN that Trump was embarrassed and angry when it became public that the plane was not equipped to fly directly back from Turkey.
All right, my panel is back.
And Andy McCabe, look, governments being upset about people leaking classified information is not new. I mean, the Obama administration was famously aggressive about leakers, including some instances where they used the legal tools they had to try to get reporters to give up anonymous sources that had led to reporting that they felt they didn't want out there.
[16:40:13]
What stands out to you about the Trump administration's actions here with these subpoenas of these New York Times journalists, because, of course, it also surrounds Kash Patel, who is currently leading the FBI.
MCCABE: There's a lot of things, Kasie, that stand out to me here. I mean, obviously, the fact that, according to the reporting we have, Kash Patel spent maybe as many as eight hours at the White House initiating this investigation and directing it until the subpoenas were issued on Friday night, which is an unprecedented merger of the political side of the White House with the leadership of the FBI in a way that we haven't seen in many decades, and this is not a good thing for the FBI or for the nation.
But putting that aside for a minute, you're right. Every administration is vexed by confidential, classified, top-secret information getting leaked by government officials or people who have access to that information, sharing it with the media.
The Obama administration was very tough on leakers, but Eric Holder, as attorney general in the Obama administration, actually fortified the protections around journalists by telling us, and it was to our great frustration at the time, that we could not investigate members of the media for the purpose of identifying the government leaker.
We could not investigate members of the media for conducting news- gathering activity. Even the Trump administration, the first Trump administration, followed that. They didn't like that principle, but they stayed with it for the most part, violated it in ways that we didn't know about at the times, because they didn't want to change the principle outright. They didn't want to draw that sort of attention.
Merrick Garland reaffirmed those provisions, and it's only been in the second Trump term that Attorney General Bondi actually publicly declared it's all fair, war on journalists to find leakers. That's how we're going to do this in the time forward.
So this is -- we are living in a totally different time than anything we've experienced in the last couple of decades. And there is no question that these subpoenas will have a chilling effect on journalism, on the First Amendment, and the ability of journalists to gather the information that they think is important for their stories and sometimes frustrates people in government.
HUNT: Yeah. So, just to put a finer on it, Eric Holder's DOJ would have said you can't subpoena a journalist the way that these times journalists were just subpoenaed.
MCCABE: Absolutely, absolutely. You could not subpoena a journalist under the Attorney General Holder unless there were some very extraordinary circumstances, like if you had information indicating that the journalist themselves was actually committing some sort of criminal offense. And even at that, you had to get approval from the absolute highest levels of the Justice Department.
Under Merrick Garland, they got even more stringent about it. It was you cannot really ever subpoena a journalist under any circumstances. And now we have gone 180 degrees in the other direction.
HUNT: Elliot, you want to jump in?
WILLIAMS: Yeah. Yeah, no, a few things happening. Andrew's exactly right. The issue here is not the going after the leakers, it's the going after the journalists and potentially chilling legitimate news gathering. We all are in agreement about that.
I think even acknowledging the idea that leaking certain types of classified information is itself a crime, looking at The Department of Defense's Department of War's history over the last several months, with respect to journalists, makes this ring even more hollow. Number one, things like stripping press privileges from reporters, or putting the press room in a secure part of the Pentagon that reporters cannot get to, so they couldn't even access it, or making reporters have to take a shuttle to a secret area in order to be able to report.
So all kinds of, they have simply been hostile to reporters on national security issues, and this is just the latest continuation of that. Recognizing that, and again, I don't want to get blown up on the internet. Yes, it is a crime to leak sensitive information at times. However, this is not the way to go about investigating.
URBAN: But I would say this. There's a difference between linking sensitive information and classified information, highly classified information, right? And so how do you enforce that, right, if -- and look, I'm 100 percent in favor of freedom of the press. I think the First Amendment's great.
However, if you can't find the leakers, right, if you can't find people leaking, classify -- we classify information for a specific reason, right? Because it produces grave harm to our national interest, right? If that's leaked, it produces grave harm. So we don't want that leaked.
So how do we stop that freaking leak? Do we polygraph people at the Pentagon?
HUNT: So here's the thing. There are times-- there are times when legitimate news organizations come into possession of classified information and the government will say behind the scenes please do not publish this information it will damage national security and sometimes news organizations have agreed to that.
[16:45:05]
URBAN: A hundred percent.
HUNT: The reporting here David is that the president himself was personally angry and embarrassed and that's what was driving this.
URBAN: Listen, that's completely different than how they got the information, right? How did they get the information, right? That's the -- listen, I think it's -- I think from my recollection, the news was out there that this plane could not fly outside the continental United States because it lacks certain things, right?
And so, I'm not quite sure what was leaked, that was specific, that was super classified. And so, the basic issue is here, we can't leak highly sensitive classified information. People should go to jail when they do that.
SOTOMAYOR: And I think that we all agree with that. I think the government has every right to investigate anyone that's leaking classified information that's going to compromise the national security of this country.
But let me remind you, David, that there were officials in this administration that actually leaked some information in that signal chat, but it's a violation of the First Amendment rights of the freedom of the press, which is a pillar of our democracy.
HUNT: All right. Andy McCabe, thank you very much, sir. Really appreciate it.
The rest of our panel's going to stand by.
Ahead here in THE ARENA, breaking news on a fatal ICE-involved shooting today in Maine. What we're learning now about the victim and the investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:50:37] HUNT: For the second time in less than a week, there's been a fatal ICE-involved shooting, this one in Maine. A warning, the video that we are about to show you is disturbing.
This was the scene today. You can see multiple agents surrounding a person on the ground, immigration rights group identified the man as a 26-year-old from Colombia who was authorized to work in the U.S.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now.
So, Priscilla, you've just got new reporting in, a significant development in the case and the investigation. What do you know?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kasie, we're getting an important clarification from the office of Maine Senator Angus King, who earlier spoke to reporters following his own conversation with the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin. Well, now his office saying that the senator had yet another call with the secretary who clarified that the man who was fatally shot by federal agents was not the target of the warrant earlier in the day the senator citing that conversation with the secretary said he was.
So let me read you the statement here, quote, "In the hour since his press conference with the Maine press corps, Senator King again spoke with Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen who shared that the victim of today's federal law enforcement shooting was not the target of the warrant. Senator King continued to emphasize the need for a full, comprehensive and transparent investigation."
We should also know, Kasie, that the FBI is in the investigation, but we have not yet heard from the Department of Homeland Security. I have also reached out to them about this clarification from the Office of Angus King. But this is a moment in which there is still not a whole lot of information about what exactly unfolded here beyond the surveillance footage that CNN has obtained, some of which you can see there.
We also don't yet know the identity of the man who was fatally shot, only that he was a 26-year-old Colombian, and that's according to that immigrant rights group. But this, of course, comes just days after that fatal shooting that also involved ICE in Houston of a Mexican national who was also not the target of that immigration enforcement operation. So still a lot of questions here. There have been more vehicle stops conducted by ICE as they try to ramp up those immigration arrests, and we are seeing the outcome of two of those play out.
Now, I'll also tell you, Kasie, that my sources tell me that they had hoped that Markwayne Mullin could build the trust of the American public following what happened in Minneapolis and following the ouster of then Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. So there is some concern that these repeated instances are going to start to erode that as well.
HUNT: Of course. All right. Priscilla Alvarez for us -- Priscilla, thanks very much for that report. We'll be right back.
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[16:58:05]
HUNT: All right, before we go, on a personal note, I wanted to take a moment to remember Senator Lindsey Graham. I've known him for nearly two decades, and I have so many fond memories of chasing him through the halls of the Capitol, chasing him on the campaign trail. On one occasion, there was skeet shooting range involved. Lindsey had a great sense of humor.
You may remember when his phone number was released to the public, and he put out this video. Because when Trump gave out his phone number, this is what he needed to do. And listen, the lightness that he brought was really welcome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): That's the first thing I'm going to do as president. We're going to drink more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The disarming wit was no doubt a product of the childhood that he spent at his family's bar, a pool hall in central South Carolina. And it frankly endeared him to colleagues on both the left and the right, and it helped make him one of the most influential dealmakers in the U.S. Senate.
And for the last decade of his life, Graham devotedly wielded that influence on behalf of President Trump, even though he had initially been a fierce critic when they competed for the 2016 presidential nomination. Graham eventually became one of President Trump's staunchest allies on Capitol Hill, one of his favorite golf buddies, despite their vastly different foreign policy instincts. Graham remained, until his dying day, one of the Senate's most consistent hawks, even as the rest of his party began to drift toward Trump's more isolationist approach.
And it's fitting that his shoes, for the time being, will be filled by the person that he cared for most in the world, his sister, Darline. He raised and legally adopted her after their parents died. Darline is now set to continue her brother's legacy as a senator, a statesman, and a friend. He will be missed.
All right. Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you all being here.
Thanks to you at home for watching as well.
But don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by with "THE LEAD".
Hi, Jake.
