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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt

Michael Cohen Reunites With Trump For What He Calls "The Impossible Reunion, After Years Of Betrayal, Heartbreak"; Dow Has Worst Day This Month As Oil Prices & Bond Yields Rise; Just In: Bernie Sanders Endorses Democratic Angie Nixon For Senate. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 20, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:05]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's great to have you with us on this Thursday.

Is Donald Trump capable of forgiving and forgetting? Apparently, we're about to find out when his friend turned foe, Michael Cohen, releases a 40-minute interview with the president after years of bitter public criticism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: He is a racist. He is a con man. And he is a cheat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Cohen's stunning 2019 congressional testimony was a remarkable turn for a man who spent years as Trump's lawyer and who heavily encouraged him to turn to politics. In 2011, Cohen even co-founded the website Should Trump Run? And he visited the all-important state of Iowa to gauge interest in a potential Trump White House run.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: I think Mr. Trump will be great. First of all, his business acumen, his negotiation skills. I mean, Mr. Trump is one of the wealthiest men in the country. He's also one of the most well-known.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I remember that era. Despite all of it, Cohen and Trump have not spoken publicly in more than eight years since 2018, when everything changed. That was the year that Cohen implicated Trump in a criminal payment scheme designed to protect his 2016 campaign by silencing women who alleged that they had affairs with Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a weak person and not a very smart person.

He lied a lot. Michael Cohen lied about the pardon. It was a stone-cold lie. He lied

numerous times during his last testimony.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So what could inspire Donald Trump to reconnect with someone who called him a racist, a con man, and a cheat?

Cohen says it all started when he claimed that his testimony against Trump had been coerced. And the resulting left-wing backlash apparently struck a chord.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

COHEN: The president knew exactly what it felt like to be at the center of that kind of partisan target practice, plain and simple. And out of nowhere, then, when I was sitting with my wife at a restaurant, my phone buzzed. And it was a text from that friend who expressed to me the president's genuine empathy for the hell that I was being dragged through yet again. And I deeply appreciated that text.

And so, I actually texted the president. We both knew the cost of this war. And in that moment, the ice between us, it didn't just melt, it broke.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, let's go up the sidelines, head into THE ARENA. My panel is here.

CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny; CNN political commentator, Republican strategist and pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson; former DNC communications director Mo Elleithee; and Republican strategist former RNC communications director Doug Heye.

We're also joined by former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain and a creator of "The Circus" docuseries, Mark McKinnon.

Welcome to all of you. Thank you all so much for being here.

Mark, and Jeff, I want to bring you in here, too.

Mark, for anyone who's covered, you know, the campaigns of the Trump years, Michael Cohen is just a fixture, right? I mean, I remember spending time with him on the trail in 2012 when obviously Trump didn't run, but he it was a will he who he will endorse, right? It was Maybe Newt Gingrich, then it was ultimately Mitt Romney, but he really wanted to be in the conversation. And Michael Cohen was right there with him.

And then they had this enormous falling out for reasons that are pretty easy to understand. And President Trump is known as someone who can hold a grudge for sure. How do you understand what has apparently happened, this rapprochement, where suddenly the two of them are going to talk for 40 minutes? Especially when the president knows giving his time to someone is doing them at least a favor in terms of giving them attention, which is, of course, an economy the president knows all too well.

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH & JOHN MCCAIN: Well, more than anything, the president likes people who bend the knee. Especially after they've turned on them, they turn back. I mean, Michael Cohen is a junkie for attention, and so is Donald Trump. It reminds me of Winston Churchill's famous quote, "Anyone can rat, but it takes a certain amount of ingenuity to re-rat."

So, Michael Cohen wants the attention. Donald Trump likes the fact that somebody has bent the knee after turning on him initially and ultimately the end of day, that's all he cares about. All he cares about is that he doesn't care what people have done. He doesn't care what countries have done. He doesn't care what dictators have done. All he cares about at the end of the day is, are people loyal to him and if they turn back to him and kiss the boot?

HUNT: How would you describe to people the nature of the relationship between Trump and Michael Cohen?

MCKINNON: Sycophantic. I mean, Michael Cohen was his fixer. And you know, took care of all the dirty work for Donald Trump, which is, you know, was that was a lot of laundry business for Michael Cohen and Donald Trump relied on him to do that. And that was a significant part of his business was getting that kind of wet work done, as they used to say.

And so, Donald Trump that was the sort of thing that not many people were willing to do and Michael Cohen was willing to do it. Not many people already ended up going to prison for it. And so, that's the nature of the relationship, was that, you know, he was a con man working for a con man.

HUNT: Jeff Zeleny, Iowa, of course, was your stomping grounds for many years right before that clip we saw of Cohen in Iowa in 2011. What are your-- how do you understand this?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I mean, Donald Trump likely would not have had the gumption to run for president or have gone through with it without Michael Cohen at the very beginning. I was thinking back to the next year, 2012, when Donald Trump went to New Hampshire. Michael Cohen was there. The helicopter landed the same day Barack Obama talked about his birth certificate.

So, he was thinking about running. And Michael Cohen is -- I mean, as Mark was saying there, he wants and needs the attention. But President Trump loves more than anything else when someone has to sort of come on their heels. So that's what all this is all about.

Who knows what they're actually going to talk about off microphone? I suspect on microphone, Michael Cohen is going to sing the praises of President Trump, and that's exactly what he wants at this moment. But I'm not sure beyond this show today how much more we can read into the fact that they have this symbiotic relationship, and Michael Cohen would love to have it back. HUNT: Let's listen to a little bit more of what Michael Cohen said when he was on the "Katz and Cosby Show" at WABC back in July when he was explaining basically trying to explain away the thing that really caused this breach between him and the president where, you know, he turns on him, testifies against him. Let's watch.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

COHEN: For years, the left, they embraced me as their ultimate weapon against him. But loyalty on that side of the aisle, it's completely transactional. And the moment that I deviated from their script, well, the pact, they turned feral.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HUNT: So, he seems to have done a couple things there, Mo. I mean, he's both given the president an easy thing to seize on, to say, well, of course, I could forget someone who really now understands that the left weaponized him against me. But, you know, he also explains that he, Michael Cohen, when he says the pact, they turn feral, right? That is the argument that Donald Trump has made for years and years about the media. It kind of puts him in the same corner.

MO ELLEITHEE, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yeah, I mean, it's so rich to hear him talk about and complain about the transactional nature of loyalty after this whole saga.

Look, two things I think are true in the Trump era over the past decade. One, nothing matters. Right? Like, here he is one day saying the president's a racist. And then, like, it doesn't matter. Nothing matters.

But number two, that there is a long history. Michael Cohen gets in line behind a long history of people that attacked Donald Trump, that warned the nation about all of the evils of Donald Trump, and then the second they needed Donald Trump, bent the knee to him, and he welcomed them with open arms.

Mark said it, Jeff said it. They're right, that all the president truly cares about is loyalty to him, fealty to him, people that will just simply say nice things to him, whether it's Michael Cohen or Ted Cruz or, you know, the dictators around the world who write him lovely love letters, that's all he really wants.

So, like, let him go. Do 40 minutes on Michael Cohen's show. I don't think anybody cares beyond the two of them. And it's 40 minutes that he'll be on this show that he's not talking about the economy, that he's not talking about the cost of living. And that's a good thing for Democrats.

HUNT: I was going to say, I mean, Doug, yesterday we played the 32 minutes he spent taking the press corps around the White House, showing them a tour of the granite and other construction projects. Now he's spending 40 minutes with Michael Cohen.

I mean, he's the leader of the free world and getting two minutes on his schedule is near impossible.

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sure, but I mean, I think he knows if you want to if you want to play Trump's game, you got him back up. You got to back him up. Clearly, this is what's happening here.

And we've heard the word attention used so many times.

[16:10:00]

So let me tell you about my attention real quick. I'm not going to pay any attention to this. And in fact, Twitter has a lovely feature where you can mute words.

So, the words Michael Cohen, I never see them, they're muted. Hunter Biden, never need to see those words again. Nancy Mace, gone.

And it's created such a healthy, much more healthier ecosphere for me to get to what? News about jobs, the economy, what's going on with the war in Iraq, I don't know, a $40 trillion debt that we're facing right now. All the things that really matter, there aren't about the latest sideshow that Donald Trump creates, whether it's reunited and they feel so good, or building up a new ballroom or something else that isn't necessary.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, and honestly, it is very indicative of just how unique/bizarre Donald Trump and his ability to command attention is. This is the A block of this show. This is like the top story we're talking about today is an interview that hasn't happened yet.

And it's just hard to imagine any other president being in a position where something like this is such a big headline. And it's Donald Trump's ability to create this like reality TV court politics type dynamic that keeps the media, you know, so wrapped up in it that there's just so many other people think they can play by Donald Trump's rules and they find out they can't, because he really is singular in his ability to pull off things like this.

HUNT: Well, I mean, is, Jeff, the fact that this is happening at all evidence of what Kristen is saying, of Trump's singularity, that, like, after trashing him repeatedly, after going out against him in public, he feels like he has to come back around because he doesn't apparently have any other choice?

ZELENY: I mean, sure, but, again, We're paying attention to it. And we aren't-- we're talking about it because, I mean, it will be fascinating to see how much Michael Cohen possibly sucks up to Donald Trump. I mean, that will be just a momentous moment. But after that, I'm with Doug. Who cares?

HUNT: Let's watch what Cohen put out in 2020. Or rather, this is an ad that was put out in 2020 of Michael Cohen talking about his at the time, former friend, former boss, et cetera. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: I'm here to tell you he can't be trusted, and you shouldn't believe a word he utters. The president is going to talk to you about law and order. That's laughable. Virtually everyone who worked for his campaign has been convicted of a crime or is under indictment, myself included.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Then, of course, Mark McKinnon, he writes today this, quote, "How can two men who spent years in a very public war, who hurled verbal missiles across an enormous legal and political canyon, ever sit down together again? The answer is actually much simpler than people want it to be. We forgave." I feel like the word we is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

MCKINNON: I mean, it does feel like an episode of The Godfather, doesn't it? I mean, come back around again. Yeah, forgave is once again it. That's all that Donald Trump cares about in the end. It's that it's fealty to him.

It's remarkable to see that clip that add up the things that he said about Donald Trump. But again, it's as other panelists have noted, there's a long line of those with Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham. You can go through it.

People just ripping Donald Trump, throwing acid bath on him, and yet at the end of the day, if they turn around and they say, "Thank you, Mr. President," then they're back in the flock. And Michael Cohen is back in the flock.

HEYE: It's not The Godfather. It's the ultimate reality show that Donald Trump knows better than anybody, and that's professional wrestling. You hit the person that you trust very well in the back with a chair, as long as later on in that episode or a few episodes later, you rip off your T-shirt and you're wearing their T-shirt underneath it, you're back in the team.

This is exactly what's happened. I've seen this on WWE, NWA for decades. This is the same script over and over, the ultimate reality show, if you tune in.

HUNT: All right. Mark McKinnon and our panel are going to stand by.

Coming up next here in THE ARENA, a big endorsement just coming in in the Florida Senate race. We're going to talk live with Democrat Angie Nixon as she tries to unite her party after her upset primary victory.

But first, a string of headlines all colliding at once for the White House, a top aide announcing their exit, and officials trying to tamp down concerns over the new record-setting national debt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA EISEN, CNBC ANCHOR: The fundamentals are ultimately what is going to prevail here in the bond market, and the fundamentals are hard to ignore when it comes to the size of our debt, with public debt increasing to now $40 trillion.

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Yeah, I mean, look, Sara, there's nothing magic about the 40 trillion number, and we can grow our way out of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:19:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BESSENT: There's nothing magic about the $40 trillion number, and we can grow our way out of that.

EISEN: Do you think we've seen peak deficit during this administration?

BESSENT: I think a very good chance we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent defending the national debt as it passes $40 trillion. It has doubled in the past decade and is up $3.8 trillion since President Trump returned to the White House last year. It's part of the reason that the Dow had its worst day of the month just now, closing down some 700 points. Rising oil prices also to blame for Wall Street's bad day.

This all unfolding less than three months until the midterm elections. Voters continue to voice their concerns about the economy and the cost of living.

[16:20:00]

And the president's approval rating, yes, sitting at an all-time low.

Now there's also another high-profile departure in the administration. This time, Director of Legislative Affairs, James Braid.

Our panel is back.

Jeff Zeleny, when you look at kind of the landscape across the country and you talk about the national debt, I mean, this was previously an animating, if not the animating issue for Republican voters, Republican candidates, especially for the entirety of the party. And under Trump, that has all changed.

ZELENY: It's really extraordinary. I mean, the only one I can even think of who really is talking about this anymore is Thomas Massie, and he was defeated when he was campaigning in Kentucky on his pocket -- he had the via pocket to protect her with the national debt with the clock that was going up and up and up.

I mean, it's just not discussed out on the campaign trail. I mean, this used to be a central theme of Republicans, at least when Democrats were in charge. But it seems that there is not the concern. But the wise folks in both parties know that it is a concern and this can't go on forever.

But when you look at that map over the last 10 years, that is so extraordinary. Yes, you can blame people in both parties. There's no doubt about it. But whoever comes after this Trump era really is going to have to address this.

So, I think the politicians in both parties, they may not get credit for doing so at the beginning. Just look at that. It's extraordinary over the last 10 years, but the wise heads from both sides will have to prevail, perhaps outgoing senators or something to do something to address this. But we barely hear the president talking about this at all, if ever.

HUNT: Yeah. I mean, austerity politics were never popular.

ANDERSON: I remember the day when it turned to $10 trillion, when it was like, guys, it's double digits.

ZELENY: Yeah.

ANDERSON: This is bad. And now that's -- we would do anything to get back to that point on the chart, right?

And I think the problem with the politics of this issue, as you were saying, austerity politics aren't popular. And politicians for a long time have gotten away with saying things that are popular but actually don't fix the problem.

So, for Democrats, they can say, let's tax the rich. And you could tax the billionaires in this country an awful lot, and it still does not actually make a big dent in that number. And for Republicans, they say, let's cut waste, fraud, and abuse. And you can cut a bunch of waste, fraud, and abuse. and it doesn't actually do very much to make a dent in that number.

The reality is the things that do make a dent in that number are wildly unpopular, typically in the types of polls that I do. And it's going to take somebody thinking very outside the political box to like find a way through that law.

HEYE: And to Kristen's point, the first time I heard the term waste, fraud and abuse. was in a committee room where all the committee communicators would get together in 2003. And it was the comms director of the House Budget Committee, a guy named Spicer, you might have heard of.

So that was 2003.

HUNT: Thanks for comment, Sean.

HEYE: Exactly. And we're here now, and it's not been addressed by anybody. If you go back, most of us were at the 2012 Republican convention. There was a running debt clock, the Obama debt clock. That's almost quaint to think about now.

And the only people who talk about it are the people who are out of power. The people who are in power, Republicans or Democrats, do not. And unfortunately, I just don't think a YOLO caucus exists anymore. I think we've seen that with the Todd Blanche vote.

ELLEITHEE: Yeah. I mean, Kristen talked about being old enough to remember when it hit $10 trillion. I'm old enough to remember 30 years ago when we actually did balance the budget, right, in the Clinton administration, when Democrats and Republicans in Congress got together and they figured out a way to do it. And there's been absolutely no appetite for that ever since.

But what's extraordinary to me, right, piggybacking on what you just said, was how rapidly it has grown under this president. Just over the past year, you know, he kicked off this administration talking about waste, fraud, and abuse.

DOGE was supposed to save us all this money. Tariffs were supposed to tackle all of this. We're paying more in refunds on those tariffs than we're taking in on the tariffs. And I'm not saying it's only a Republican thing.

ANDERSON: No, no, no.

ELLEITHEE: Right? But it is extraordinary that the party that once championed fiscal responsibility is now --

ANDERSON: But the one thing that I do think is fascinating about the balancing of the budget is one, having a Democratic president do it. Is this the sort of thing where maybe only a Democratic president can do it? Because if a Republican does it, then you're the mean budget cutters. Is this like a Nixon goes to China thing?

But second. The economy was looking pretty good for a while there in the late 1990s. And a really good economy helps raise tax revenues. It does all sorts of things that are budget magic. You need an economy that's doing a lot better than the one we have right now.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, Mark McKinnon, let's watch what President Trump said in 2015. He was a presidential candidate in April of that year. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We owe $18 trillion. It's going to soon be $22 trillion. When it hits $24 trillion, that's the magic number. That's called the point of no return.

A couple of you folks from the Wharton School of Finance, I see you nodding. You don't even understand, $24 trillion is the point of no return. It's going to be very hard to come back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Well, we have blown past that. MCKINNON: Yeah, but, Kasie, $40 trillion is just a number, according to the treasury secretary.

[16:25:03]

It's astonishing. I mean, Donald Trump says that on the one hand, and yet he's built his entire life personally and professionally on debt, and he's been quoted time and time again saying he basically doesn't care about debt, and so he has -- he has no notion of the consequences.

But I'll tell you this as a campaign guy, the last thing that I want to be talking about 70 days out from a midterm election is the fact that we're busting out $40 trillion in the deficit and the stock market has taken a 700-point dive. This is -- this is -- this is a really bad stew for the president and I just feel like -- you know, the president had largely campaign on a macro message of sort of maybe most people just got the sense that he was saying, listen, just elect me and I'll go break stuff. And people said, yeah, go break stuff and then then they get turned around to see doesn't say, wait a minute, not everything.

HUNT: Yeah, I mean, Jeff, the dissonance of it is really quite something because, I mean, to Mark's point, the president in his business life did use debt leverage, right, as they call it, very, very aggressively. But in this context, do you think voters right now, are they going to hear it the way Mark is that they've heard it in campaigns past or do people -- are we kind of at the point where it -- the grocery bill is what matters and this debt situation feels really far removed from their lives?

ZELENY: I think it feels far removed, but it's all part of a piece here. And Mark is absolutely right. I mean, we're just weeks away from early voting, a couple months away from these campaigns being over.

This is not a good moment for the party in power. It's one more metric. But of course, everyone's to blame for this. The wars that effectively went on for a couple decades that were paid for by tax breaks. The -- you know, on and on and on.

The pandemic obviously played a role in this. But going forward, I do think that voters just get this sense of that $40 trillion number is extraordinary. I would not be surprised if Democrats would have run that ad or the clip of the president that are saying that to $24 billion is the magic number because that's incredible. On his watch, this happened.

And to hear the treasury secretary speaking so blasely or a blase about that, it is pretty astonishing. So yes, I think voters sort of have it in their conscience as they're as they're thinking about all of this.

HUNT: Mark, I mean, the other piece of this is, of course, what the president is actually focused on, right? Which, you know, are largely his renovations, his construction projects. Erick Erickson had this to say about that. I mean, I think it's --

there's a little more here. We'll dig into it, but let's watch what he said and we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERICK ERICKSON, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Would rather he focus on the renovations than -- I mean, we're at $40 trillion in national debt, and every time he touches it, it gets worse. So just let him focus on the renovations. He's surrounded by some smart people who can deal with these other issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: He's basically saying, well, let him worry about that so he doesn't actually worry about the country. But of course, the renovations and things like the ballroom, in some ways, I mean, those had broken through with voters in a way that they're looking at what they can afford.

And while the numbers that are associated with the costs of Trump's building projects don't near the national debt, it's not in the trillions, they're still incredibly expensive, and there's a real dissonance there for people who are struggling.

MCKINNON: That's exactly right, Kasie. I don't think anything is more problematic in terms of messaging for the campaign and the reelect than Donald Trump's focus and fascination to and dedication to monuments to himself.

He knows nobody's going to build anything to his legacy after he leaves, so he's madly doing it all now. And as Maggie Haberman said in her says in her book reports and regime change or says that she believes that 70 percent of his mind share is made-up of thinking about these projects And actually some data about how much he's actually talking about that over the news over the last couple months is 79 percent.

And so, when voters see that -- I mean, that's a very clear message to them to say, well, wait a minute that -- you know, ballrooms and arches and reflecting pools that has nothing to do with my life. And Mr. President, is there anything that you're doing right now that that focuses on what I'm going through rather than what you're trying to do to preserve your own legacy?

HUNT: All right, Mark McKinnon, thank you as always. Really appreciate you being here. Hope you'll come back soon.

All right, coming up next here in THE ARENA, new CNN reporting on who is the early favorite to become the next White House press secretary.

Plus, Maggie Haberman is here for more on the White House's reaction to what a senator said about one of the president's closest aides.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): It's been amazing to watch this White House melt down over this all week.

[16:30:00]

And about Natalie Harp, these White House staffers are adults, public officials paid by the taxpayer with immense power in positions of public trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: How do you think it all ends for Donald Trump?

COHEN: Wow. That's a -- how would I like to see it end? I would like to see him standing before a court being judged by a jury of 12 for his own dirty deeds and for his crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That's what Michael Cohen told me back in 2022 about how he wanted to see things end for Donald Trump. The ending he's getting today quite different. from what he laid out there.

Cohen, the president's former fixer-turned-foe sat down for a much- anticipated interview with Trump that is set to air later this evening.

[16:35:05]

It's a reunion that few would have anticipated just a couple of months ago.

Joining me now is "New York Times" White House correspondent, CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman. And she is also, of course, the co- author of "The New York Times" instant bestseller "Regime Change".

Maggie, it's always great to see you. Thank you very much for being here.

How do you understand this detente between President Trump and his former fixer, Michael Cohen.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: So Ben Protess and I reported that last year, Cohen had some brief meeting -- very brief with Trump at Bedminster, and that was the first time that they had spoken, as far as we know, in many, many years. That was the beginning of what you are seeing now, but it is not obviously the only step that Cohen described having texted Trump and so forth and so on.

Omarosa said to us for a story that we did before that trial began in 2024 where Cohen was the star witness and which as you showed that Cohen had said that he wanted to see Trump facing a jury which is exactly what happened and he was convicted, Omarosa said, you know, who used to work in the White House, she was friends with Michael Cohen as well, that if it were up to Cohen he would still be working for Trump, that none of this would have happened.

And, Kasie, honestly, I think that you are seeing that now. I think there's also a utility to some in the White House not many, but some in the White House who support the president who think that Cohen speaking out about that trial could be useful as they are trying to appeal the conviction.

HUNT: Interesting. When you say some in the White House, that of course speaks to this increasingly insular circle around the president, a very different one that you wrote about in "Regime Change" then surrounded him in the first administration. And of course, one of the key players in that very tight circle is Natalie Harp, this aide who has been in the news in no small part recently because of Jon Ossoff, the senator from Georgia.

I want to play what Ossoff said last night. about Natalie Harp in a TV appearance and get your take on it on the other side. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSSOFF: It's been amazing to watch this White House melt down over this all week. And about Natalie Harp, these White House staffers are adults, public officials paid by the taxpayer with immense power in positions of public trust. And whether it's Natalie Harp printing out Donald Trump's daily dose of delusion and flattery, or Peter Navarro steering taxpayer-funded loans to Trump family investments, or Pete Hegseth deluding the president daily into deepening this quagmire in the Middle East, no one cares about their feelings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Why did the White House melt down, in his words, the way they did over Natalie Harp? What is that really about?

HABERMAN: So I'm not going to get into what the senator appeared to be implying the other day. That goes beyond my reporting. But what I will say is that Jonathan and I got into this in depth in "Regime Change" about how Natalie Harp was the most devoted Trump staffer during the four years he was out of power, she wasn't there for all four years, but a lot of them. She had left these letters in his personal spaces, saying one of them you are all that matters to me, and now she sits in a chair in all of these meetings in the Oval Office.

The White House, instead of responding to Ossoff, you know, just sort of generically started defending Natalie Harp, also attacked the reporter who had the temerity to ask a question about what a senator had said. But all this did was amplify all of this attention around Natalie Harp. It didn't make it go away.

The president himself actually didn't really even discuss this when he got asked about it. They have now helped turn this into a multi-day story. I think they have one speed, which is defend.

And I think this is also, Kasie, what you are going to see more of as we head into the final two years. It will be you know, a spectacle of attacks and a focus on, you know, a particular window.

There are people in the White House, I will say, while Natalie Harp does not have, you know, a lot of allies in that White House, there are people who are unhappy at the moment about how much attention she is getting, whether that is, you know, understanding or not that this is public service is a different issue, but there you have it.

HUNT: I was talking to one Republican who is relatively close to the White House who suggested that Melania Trump is upset about it and that that's why they were so aggressive about it. How do you understand that piece of it?

HABERMAN: Yeah, I don't have reporting on that. I don't know that she's upset or not upset. I mean, if she's upset, Natalie Harp has been around for a while.

So it's possible always that the coverage and all of this focus could upset people, but again I don't know.

[16:40:06]

I think in general they are recognizing as a White House that they are heading into a midterms where the polling suggests that it's not going to be great for their party and that the Republicans at the moment seem likely to lose control of the House and possibly the Senate, and the Democrats are going to attempt to do a lot of oversight, and they are trying to circle the wagons. But, you know, I think some of this is also the president is not happy about it.

HUNT: So speaking of the midterms, where how is the White House thinking about the war with Iran and the way they think that is going to impact the midterm and whether they have any tools left in their toolbox to try to change the current status quo.

HABERMAN: Yeah, it's a good question, Kasie. You know, there -- a lot of his advisors had been saying for months that they needed this to be done with, this being the war that the president engaged in on February 28th for what was supposed to be I think it was four to six weeks. It's gone well past that now. They needed this to be done by the time Labor Day was over.

We're pretty close to Labor Day and there really is no end in sight. And there are only bad options because Iran gets a vote here on whether there is an end. And the president is seeing the limits of what he can do in terms of forcing reality to bend his will.

And again, just to go back to reporting in the book, Jonathan and I right at length about how the president got to this point of going into this war. He thought it would be quick. He had a gut feeling it was going to go well. And so, now, they are just left with this situation that they are all having to manage, and it's difficult.

HUNT: It's really, really an under difficult -- it's difficult, yes, accurate, and if anything, an understatement.

One, of course, key post that's currently vacant is the press secretary position, that podium vacated by Karoline Leavitt, who was a very trusted aide to the president. What is your reporting on what the president's looking for in that? I mean, there's, of course, been some suggestion that Scott Jennings, who has been a contributor here at CNN, is potentially in the running for that post.

What are you hearing?

HABERMAN: Yeah, I mean, I've been hearing for the last week or so, ever since Karoline Leavitt's departure was announced by the president, that it was likely going to be offered to Scott Jennings. But doesn't surprise me that they're taking their time. The reality is that President Trump is his own comms director in his mind and his own press secretary in his mind. And so, you know, they will choose someone, I don't know exactly when they will. I do know that they have been talking about having a man do it. Who knows?

I mean, that rift that the president did at the rescheduled White House Correspondents' Dinner about how he likes it when people call him because he still thinks he can make a story better. That was pretty candid on his part. That is generally how he has described it to people over the years.

And I don't think that will end. So, whoever the press secretary is, is coming in without the same pre-existing relationship with him that Karoline Leavitt had, and that could be a challenge.

HUNT: Yeah, for sure.

All right. Maggie Haberman, so grateful to have you in THE ARENA. Thank you so much for being here.

HABERMAN: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, ahead here in THE ARENA, Democrat Angie Nixon, who shocked the political world by winning Tuesday's primary in Florida, is here with us live as things get personal in one of the country's biggest Senate races.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ASHLEY MOODY (R-FL): They are trying to light this country on fire from the inside. And right now, the way the Democrat Party is going, you would think they were doing the bidding of our communist foreign adversaries more than this country, the well-being of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:53:07]

HUNT: All right. Fresh off her upset victory in Florida's Democratic Senate primary, State Representative Angie Nixon picking up a key endorsement today from Senator Bernie Sanders who praised Nixon's, quote, "unprecedented" win saying this, quote, "Angie's campaign is proof that Florida voters are looking for candidates who will fight for them and who will take on the greed of the billionaire class." Sanders wrote in a statement, quote, "This is the future of the Democratic Party. They say Florida is a red state. I don't believe that's true."

Nixon, who is a member of the DSA, now has just a little over two months to win over general election voters in a state that Trump won in 2024 with a decisive 13-point margin.

Joining me now in THE ARENA is Florida's Democratic nominee for Senate, State Representative Angie Nixon.

Thank you so much for being here, Representative. I really appreciate it.

My top line question for you is, are you a Bernie Sanders Democrat?

ANGIE NIXON (D), FLORIDA SENATE CANDIDATE: I am a Democrat for the people. I do align with a lot of things that Bernie Sanders aligns with. But again, I am not 100 percent with everyone or everything or every organization I'm a member of.

HUNT: Is there something that you would identify that you disagree with Bernie on?

NIXON: I mean, I don't have to go through the list, but what I do know that we agree on is making sure that we're fighting to bring about access to universal health care. We also believe in making sure that they are fully funded public schools. We want to get big money out of politics and those are a few of the things that we do in fact agree on.

HUNT: Would you say that you are a Democratic socialist?

NIXON: I would say that I am a member of the DSA. Yes, I joined their organization, but I am someone who believes that the Democratic Party is a big-ticket part -- I'm sorry, the big tent party and we just want things like access to quality health care for everyone.

We also support things like universal childcare because we know that for every $1.00 that is spent, it puts $3 into the economy. It allows parents to be able to get back to work. It allows students to have a strong foundation when they are starting school.

And so, those are things that I have been fighting for my entire adult career and I'm going to continue to fight for those when I become the next United States senator and actually deliver on them.

HUNT: There are some critical Hispanic communities, Latino communities in Florida who have had experiences with leaders in Central and South America, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, who hear the word socialist and think about national socialists. What would you say to them about your embrace of that label?

NIXON: So, what I would say to them is that I totally understand where they're coming from. And I hear and realize that some of them have experienced some trauma in the past because some folks are still alive, right? But I want folks to know that I have always actively fought against anything that has come from a government that is set to be oppressive or keep people down, right, including this President of the United States, Donald Trump, right?

I am someone who simply wants us to have access to quality health care. I don't believe that anyone should be going bankrupt simply because they're trying to stay alive or because they go to the doctor. I don't believe we should be allowing our teachers to not have living wages and living on the streets or in their cars, which literally there are some teachers who have had to call my office because the state of Florida is ranked 50th when it comes to paying their educators, right?

And so, I am us to put the power back in the hands of the people. I believe that hard working everyday people should get to shape what our communities look like and what our economies look like. And right now, the people that are shaping what our -- what our country looks like are the billionaire class right are the wealthiest of the wealthy. They have no clue what it feels like right now to decide whether or not you are going to put food on the table or put that gas in your car so that you can get -- get to work.

These are decisions that people -- everyday people have to make. And meanwhile, we have unelected Ashley Moody and Donald Trump only looking out for their campaign donors, which are these millionaires and billionaires and these corporations.

Last year, over 88 companies made over $105 billion. They paid absolutely nothing in federal taxes. I spoke with someone the other day. She says she made $55,000 last year and she's on a payment plan with the IRS.

The status quo cannot remain any longer. The system is broken and it's not even broken. It's designed to be this way. It's designed to make regular everyday people just feel so distraught and like nothing will change.

And I am happy that I'm running because I'm providing hope, letting folks know that we want -- we don't want government like in our business. We want government to work for us. We are the ones who are the bosses, not these billionaires, not these corrupt politicians, everyday hardworking people.

HUNT: So, given all of that that you've just said, Hakeem Jeffries, who would be in line to be speaker of the House, recently said he doesn't support Medicare for All. He's not on that bill anymore. He used to be.

Is he wrong?

NIXON: Right.

HUNT: Right? Why -- is the leadership -- these Democrats have the right leaders here in Washington? NIXON: He is absolutely wrong. How can you, all of a sudden, change the tune? And I'll tell you how you change the tune, when your corporate donors --

HUNT: So should he not be speaker?

NIXON: -- give you more money so that you won't -- you know, that is -- that is up to the Congress people. I'm running for U.S. Senate.

HUNT: Well, what about Chuck Schumer? Should he be the majority leader if Democrats take back the Senate?

NIXON: You know, I think I would possibly be looking elsewhere when I become the next United States senator in regards to leadership.

And I mean, we need to make sure that we have people who are centered on people, who are working for people, right? And so again, the majority of the people --

(CROSSTALK)

HUNT: Do you think Schumer is going to support your campaign? Do you expect Democrats in Washington to send money to help you win?

NIXON: I actually have Democrats in Washington already sending me money and already agreeing --

(CROSSTALK)

NIXON: I want to be clear --

HUNT: The DSCC, have they committed to go on the air for you in a big way?

NIXON: Who did you say? The DSCC?

HUNT: The DSCC.

NIXON: No, I haven't -- I haven't heard from -- no -- yeah, no, actually we're -- our campaign is supposed to have a conversation with them sometime this week, but I want to be clear because a lot of people, this is my introduction to them. I am someone who is a former vice chair of a Democratic executive committee in Duval County. I also worked for the state party, the Florida Democratic Party as a political director and a field director.

I'm also a union organizer. I'm also --

HUNT: All right.

NIXON: -- someone who is not ashamed or afraid to vote against my caucus if it's not in the benefit -- is -- if it's not benefiting hard working everyday people.

HUNT: All right.

NIXON: I'm also OK with voting against Republicans. It's not about that. It's about the people for me.

HUNT: All right, I don't mean to cut you off. We're just up against a heartbreak here at the end of the show and I want to thank you very much for your time.

Angie Nixon, I hope you'll come back.

NIXON: For sure. Thank you. Thank you so much.

HUNT: All right.

NIXON: Bye.

HUNT: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you being here.

Do -- thanks to you and hope for joining as well.

Don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is here for "THE LEAD" with a big interview.

Hi, Jake.