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CNN's The Arena with Kasie Hunt
Trump Hosts Battleground Republicans At White House After Saying "Our Country Will Live In Hell" If Dems Win Texas; Jeffries Fumes Over "Breach Of Trust" After Two Dems Help GOP; Jury In Clancy Murder Trial Sent Home For The Day By Judge. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired September 02, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:01]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That first woman was great.
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: That was intense.
KEILAR: I feel like that's exactly what Sasquatch would sound like.
SANCHEZ: Probably, yeah.
KEILAR: Amazing.
SANCHEZ: Gordita crunch.
(LAUGHTER)
KEILAR: THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT starts right now.
(MUSIC)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Welcome to THE ARENA. It's wonderful to have you with us on this Wednesday.
As we come on the air, Donald Trump could be preparing to enter the fight for the midterms in a big way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's very simple. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. As soon as it's over, which I don't think will be very much longer. I don't know how much more they can take, but whatever it is, it doesn't matter.
And I'm not affected by the election. Number one, I'm not running. My party's running, and I'm going to help my party. But I think my party respects the fact that we're not allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The president this afternoon vowing to help his party despite that lingering unpopular war. In just hours, the president is set to host a special dinner in the Rose Garden. He's inviting Republicans from key battleground states.
This, as his treasury secretary, acknowledges that affordability, the number one issue for so many voters, is still a problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Look, prices too high. The American consumer got blown away under Joe Biden, 21.5 percent stated inflation, probably much higher for working Americans. And they -- we are going through an energy shock right now due to both the war in Ukraine and then the conflict in Iran. And the conflict in Iran, it will end and prices will come down. Overall, prices are coming down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. This Rose Garden dinner comes as many Republicans are desperate for President Trump to start spending money to help the GOP try to maintain control of Congress. The Trump-aligned MAGA, Inc. super PAC has more than $400 million at its disposal. Their latest ads seem to confirm recent reports that the president sees focusing on himself as the way to win.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We gave you no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, and no tax on Social Security.
The largest tax cuts in American history.
The price of eggs is down 60 percent.
AD NARRATOR: He's fighting for you every day. Help him finish the job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, if there's one state where Republicans need the president's money most, it just might be in Texas, where the Senate race pits the state's Republican attorney general, Ken Paxton, against Democrat James Talarico. The president today once again bringing the focus back to himself and portraying that race as existential for Republicans everywhere.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: If they change Texas, Texas will be a disaster. It'll go -- and it could go bad very fast.
They'll have Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C. as states. That means you have four more senators, many more electoral votes. You'll have 10 more congresspeople, and you'll never have a Republican president again.
You will never have -- I'll be the last -- think of it. I will be the last Republican president if that happens. I will be the last Republican president and our country will live in hell. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Okay, on that note, let's get off the sidelines, head into THE ARENA.
My panel is here, but we're going to get started with CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.
So, Kristen, what more are we learning about the latest midterm push this dinner set for this evening?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I am assured by White House officials, by officials who are working with MAGA Inc, that PAC that you mentioned, that President Trump is now all in for these midterms. You did hear him saying that he's going to campaign for his party.
He's going to work with his party to try to get them elected. Now, in terms of the money, there is a huge faction of Republicans across the country who are waiting for MAGA Inc to start spending their money. MAGA Inc. has been encouraging these candidates to spend their own money, but I am told that this money is going start being infused into these races.
We did see them hosting that rally for Mike Rogers in Michigan. I'm told there's going to be more events like that and more of these ad buys.
Now, the focus on President Trump is one that you can hear even Republicans in these vulnerable districts talking about. The idea is this, that President Trump is going to be linked to these candidates no matter what, likely because of his unpopularity and of many of his things that he has been doing since he's been in office, particularly that war and those high prices.
So why not have President Trump in his own words trying to talk about the good things that they have done since many of these targeted ads are going to be about the bad things that President Trump and this administration has done. We'll see if that ends up working.
But Republicans do believe that part of the big problem here is the fact that President Trump drives voter turnout. Him not being on the ballot means that people are not going to be turning out to
So, what you're seeing is a lot of pepping up of these candidates, trying to rah-rah around various candidates, particularly in those vulnerable districts. It's part of the reason behind this midterm convention to try and bring the base out to vote. And I talked to one Republican operative who said that there are still a number of undecided voters, people who haven't even said whether or not they're going to show up in November and a lot of those are actually Trump voters.
So, they want President Trump to be on the ballot. Now, of course, Democrats, they also want President Trump to be on the ballot. They think that helps them, again, given his lack of popularity currently. So, we'll see just how this ends up playing out. But I am assured President Trump is now all in on helping with these midterms.
HUNT: All right. Kristen Holmes for us at the White House. Kristen, thank you as always.
My panel is here in THE ARENA. The former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, Marc Short; CNN political analyst and historian Leah Wright-Rigueur; CNN political commentator and a former DNC senior advisor and communications director Xochitl Hinojosa; and CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings.
Welcome to all of you. And we do or we have to mention to our viewers that Mr. Jennings is reportedly being considered for the role of the next White House press secretary.
Scott, welcome back to the show on that note.
But Marc Short, I want to start with you, and Scott, feel free to jump in as well. But you've been a Republican longer than Donald Trump, I believe. What is -- how does this cut in the midterm elections, right? I mean, the president it is the case that he has gotten voters who typically sit on the sidelines in elections to the ballot box when he's been on the ballot. But that said, his numbers right now are absolutely horrible, and midterms are quite often, almost always, a referendum on the president in power.
So, what do Republicans who are trying to hold these seats what do they want from the president, and is he giving it to them?
MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Well, look, you're right. Donald Trump has brought in a new voter that Republicans traditionally didn't get, particularly in the Midwest of America. In some ways, I think that his trade agenda is hurting most in Midwest America. And so, it is kind of this paradox right now.
But Republicans need Donald Trump to be invested in the midterms. I think the reality is, as you said, it is often a referendum on the party in power. In the first midterm for President Obama, he lost 63 seats. The first midterm for Donald Trump, he lost roughly 40 seats. And so, this is the dynamic that you're facing, but particularly when it's one party in power, control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, it's going to be a referendum on the president's policies.
And so, the best thing he can do for House Republicans is to get his own numbers up. And so, if he's actually running ads that are promoting his policies, I think that's probably helpful, Kasie. And if he's actually going out and campaign for other Republicans, that would be helpful as opposed to so far being engaged more in Republican primaries.
HUNT: Scott Jennings, when you look at that ad, right, I think you and I have had a version of this conversation sitting right here. There are things that Republicans would love for him to run on, including no tax on tips and Trump accounts. There's other policies that are popular in a populist way. But that's not what the president is talking about for the most part every day when he's instead focusing -- we're going to talk later about his ballroom and the Kennedy Center and the new Trump coin and all these other things. Do you think the president is maximizing every opportunity to try to keep Republican control of Washington, or is he taking his eye off the ball sometimes?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, deploying this money to the tune of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars is certainly keeping your eye on the ball. I agree with Mark. He has to be involved because the campaigns are going to involve him whether anybody likes it or not. Democrats are going to say he hasn't done anything or he's made things worse. Republicans would like to run an affirmative defense of that and say, no, we've cast votes that have actually made things better. And a lot of those votes do revolve around taxation.
And the thing is, Democrats voted against every one of those things. And that's the bright line that you're going to see drawn in these campaigns. It's going to be a contrast election. You can't run a totally positive campaign.
But it's not just enough to go out and talk about how the socialists are getting ready to take over the country. You have to also talk about what you've done and why those votes matter and why your agenda is better.
So they're going to handle a little bit of positive P.R. for Trump and his agenda, and I suspect the campaigns themselves are going to be drawing some contrasts with their Democratic opponents, like in Texas, where Talarico today was caught trying to throw out capitalism so we could solve the climate crisis and other issues. And that's how it's going to be run. Some positive, but a lot of contract.
HUNT: But, of course, the reality is that Texas is in play in no small part because of the choice of candidate on the Republican side. And this is always a test in midterms, but especially as our elections have become more nationalized.
Candidate quality does matter. The question is how much, especially in the face of a wave, a structural wave, where the country is moving in one direction or the other. But I think it's worth watching what Ted Cruz, the senator from Texas, said last night on Fox News about Ken Paxton and what his party needs to do to shore him up in Xochitl's home state of Texas. We'll talk to her about this, but watch this first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I got to say, some of the Republicans that are throwing rocks at Ken Paxton, my message to them is enough, stop your kvetching. We had a $200 million primary and Ken won.
[16:10:01]
You want to complain, complain in primary. It's over. And by the way, I will say, every moderate Republican when they win a primary, they tell conservatives now shut up and support the nominee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Shut up and support the nominee, he says. There's a reason that some of them aren't, right?
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, that's right. And my sister is running for governor of Texas.
HUNT: Yeah, appreciate --
HINOJOSA: I want to disclose that.
But I mean, the strategy right now for the midterm elections isn't working. There is a reason why Texas is in play. There's a reason why Alaska is in play, because Donald Trump put Americans or put the Republican Party in this mess with higher inflation and his tariffs.
And so, you are seeing a place like Texas where Ken Paxton is very unpopular. But I think that Republicans should be worried Texas, not just because of the dynamics, but Ken Patson is a bad candidate. Not only does he have flaws, he's not raising money.
That state is a state where Republicans should be going gangbusters with raising money. That is a state where there are unlimited contributions on the gubernatorial side. And on the on the Senate side, you have a whole array of Republican donors, including Elon Musk, who are willing to put in money into that state. And so, it is -- Republicans are genuinely frustrated.
They're also frustrated with the fact that these attacks on James Talarico have not been working. Poll after poll after poll shows him ahead or the race essentially tied. And so they can call him a socialist or whatever they want to call him, but the reality is, is that it's not working and they need to switch strategies if they want to win a state like Texas.
JENNINGS: You know, everyone wants to talk about the divisions of the Republicans in Texas. Nobody around here seems to want to talk about the fact that Jasmine Crockett does nothing for James Talarico, has been attacking the Democratic Party after that very divisive primary. I even saw the other day she was talking like maybe she's not even a Democrat anymore.
I think Talarico has problems on his left flank. I think he has problems with African-American voters down there. It's the same for El Syed, Michigan, major problems with African-American Democrat voters up there as well.
So, we spent a lot of time around here talking about Republican issues. The Democrats internally have issues in Texas and Michigan, and if they lose those two states, the path to a Senate majority would be difficult.
HINOJOSA: Well, I will say that Jasmine Crockett will vote for Talarico and down ballot. I asked my Republicans, will John Cornyn vote?
JENNINGS: How do you know?
HINOJOSA: Because I'm friends with her, I know.
JENNINGS: Why is she crapping on Talarico all the time?
HINOJOSA: She's not going to vote for Ken Paxson. Give me a break.
JENNINGS: She craps (ph) on him all the time.
HINOJOSA: Will John Cornyn vote for Paxson?
JENNINGS: He said he's voted Republican his entire life.
HINOJOSA: He cannot commit to voting for Paxton.
HUNT: It's not hard to just leave it blank.
SHORT: Well, Crockett says she's not going to campaign only for him, only down ticket. And to Scott's point, you have a Democrat attorney general in Michigan who's afraid to even come out for unified events for the Democrat party.
LEAH WRIGHT-RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: And yet -- and yet the conversation is still about Republicans and the conversation that we are having today and the conversation that Republicans should be having amongst themselves is how do we stop the bleeding? And I think this is to Xochitl's point, which is that even with all of these divisions, even with all of the problems that we're seeing amongst Democrats.
And yes, Democrats have their own issues and their own squabbles. Right now, it's all about how do we stop the bleeding, in part because this is not about ideas and proposing ideas and Trump saying, you know, I can do all of these ideas. He's falling into the exact same trap, that Democrats actually faced in 2022 and 2024, which is we have a lot of great ideas, but we're not actually acting on them.
Seventy-one percent of voters say that they disapprove a Donald handling of the economy, including 40 percent of Republicans. This is why everything is in play right now.
JENNINGS: I feel bad -- I feel bad for Jasmine Crockett. They did that liberal white male socialist did her dirty in Texas. If I were her, I'd be mad too.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I'd like to stick with the theme of Democrats having their own challenges, but I want to bring up a different Senate race because, again, speaking of candidates, one longtime very strong candidate is the senator from Maine, Susan Collins, who has often won in environments that were not terribly favorable for her party.
She sat down to an interview with Jonathan Martin, now of "Politico", where she talked about some of the vulnerabilities that may be present in her Democratic opponent, now Troy Jackson, who, of course, replaced Graham Plattner on the ballot. Let's watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN MARTIN, POLITICO: Should the circumstances of his personal life and his -- the mother of his children be relevant to this campaign? Is that fair game, do you think?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): Well, I'm not going to bring up the fact that the mother of his two children is his second cousin. I don't know whether people know that or not.
MARTIN: I think you just mentioned it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: She says she's not going to mention it, but then she mentions it and mentions that she's not sure if people know that or not. Marc Short, apparently we know now.
SHORT: Every six years, people underestimate Susan Collins and assume that she's going to lose. She's won in tough environments, and I think she's -- she's running against a challenged candidate. And they had a difficult primary, obviously. going to lose. She's won in tough environments, and I think she's running against a challenged candidate.
And they had a difficult primary, obviously, in the Democrat side in Maine.
[16:15:00]
So, look, I think that she's going to prevail when people count her out again.
HUNT: Do you think she can pull it off? I mean, if you watch that full interview, I will also say you see Susan Collins' political chops and how just -- how she knows the minutiae of elections and campaigning in a way that helps explain why she's hung on when others have failed.
JENNINGS: Yeah, she's a great campaigner. She's a great fundraiser. Democrats have from Plattner, who was weird, to Jackson, who, well, as we heard, may be weirder. And it's made a total mockery of the nomination process up there. Yeah, she can absolutely win.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here in THE ARENA, Pennsylvania Democratic Senator John Fetterman will be here live. We're going to talk about the midterm elections. We're also going to discuss that whistleblower report around major risks to mail-in ballots this year.
Plus, House Democrats fuming to their own after they blindsided leadership to side with Republicans on a key vote. Now, those two members could face punishment from their caucus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): It is, I think, a mistake to vote against our caucus. We have to be unified. That's what we're going to be fighting for in this election cycle as we move into the majority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: Today, a new leadership test for the Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, who's vowing a serious response after two of the members of his Democratic caucus, Congressman Jared Golden and Congresswoman Marie Gluensenkamp-Perez, blindsided him in a key vote and helped Republicans salvage their legislative agenda.
Jeffries calls what they did a, quote, "significant breach of trust", telling reporters that neither lawmaker gave leadership a heads-up before the vote and that he's now weighing whether the pair will face repercussions.
Joining me now is Democratic senator from Pennsylvania, John Fetterman.
Senator, it's always great to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
Republicans, of course, have sometimes struggled to govern, especially on the House side with a narrow majority, but it's also affected the Senate.
Big picture, how do you think the Democratic Party should address things like this where members of the House or Senate buck their own leadership and do something leadership doesn't want them to do? Should they be punished?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Would the Democrat, my party, would we want to be responsible for the third shutdown in how many months? I mean, why are we still even arguing about that right now? I mean, we're all talking about the midterms right now, and the Senate's not even in session back until September the 15th. And now we've had two punishing shutdowns, and you now are considering or flirting with that. It's absurd.
And if you shut our government down, you know, America loses. and the Democratic Party -- we used to be the party that refused to shut our government down, and we would scold the Republicans how irresponsible it is to do that. So, I think those two members did the right thing overall, you know?
Maybe I was the only Democrat in the Senate that's wrong to shut the government down, and we did it twice. We walked away with empty pockets, and really just the workers and people were punished. So here we are again, so I'm actually glad that it happened to avoid another shutdown.
HUNT: Do you think that it shows that Hakeem Jeffries has what it takes to be Speaker of the House that he would be surprised by something like this?
FETTERMAN: I mean, I have no vote or I have no opinion of it. I'm not in the House. I'm in the Senate. Thank God. Thank God. But no --
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: So, speak broadly and there's also -- there's also questions about Chuck Schumer's leadership of the Democratic Party as progressives press back across the board. Do you think Democrats have the right leaders if they're going to retake power in Washington.
FETTERMAN: None of these progressives in the caucus don't have the stones to really make a move, and I don't think anything's happening on that side overall. You know, I'm not aware of any palace intrigue, and I really have never had an issue with Lead Schumer. I've never had. I mean -- I -- I've had differences, of course, but now overall, I'm not sharpening any blades and not aware of any.
HUNT: All right. I want to ask you, sir, your home state of Pennsylvania is, of course, a critical battleground state in any presidential election and, of course, has some key House races as well this cycle. The United States Postal Service has a whistleblower that's come forward and has said that there are potentially ways for the administration to tamper with mail-in ballots. He -- this whistleblower -- met with the House Oversight Committee, and there's been reporting about this.
Are you concerned that the United States Postal Service might tamper with the results of the midterm election or provide the administration an opportunity to do it?
FETTERMAN: Well, I mean -- well, you remind me of that Pennsylvania is really important. And I'm -- I was lieutenant governor back in 2020 and that was ground zero of all of the vote tampering and then all that drama. You know, I definitely read the book and I'm definitely not going to see that shitty movie on this in 2026.
So, but overall now, I haven't seen anything that -- yeah, I'm aware of it and it's on the radar screen. But as far as I know that it's blocked and it's not going to be enacted at this point and also thankfully, as far as I'm aware that the Trump administration hasn't defied any actual court rulings for that now. But it's possible they're going to continue but a lot of it's just misinformation and noise trying to create chaos as they did and tried in 2026.
But I'd remind everybody watching now, you know, voting mail anyway it's secure and honest and that is the voice of Pennsylvania as it's always been in every election and as it will be in 2026 without a doubt. Thankfully, we had Al Schmidt is now -- he's the secretary of state and how he was the hero in Philly in 2020 that refused to get engaged in that kind of a thing.
So, it's supremely secure. And I would remind people now, you know, the best examples of voting by mail, you know, that's in Ohio and that's in Florida, you know, other red states and in Pennsylvania in 2019. That was the GOP. That's what they wanted. They actually offered
voting for mail. They wanted that. So, every single Republican voted for that. So, but here we are now. It's secure then, now. So, I really ignore a lot of the noise.
HUNT: So, are you confident that the Trump administration will not try to tamper with the election anyway?
FETTERMAN: I mean, any -- like I said, anything's possible, but overall. But in anything that I've seen so far, it's been just a lot of noise and trying to create a lot of chaos. I mean, things have happened.
And now the DHS claimed that there was a quarter million of illegal migrants, you know, on the rolls. They haven't produced that. I'm open to that.
But in New Jersey, they actually found out they had 6,000 ones, you know, on their rolls now too. So, you know, so definitely there are things to have some concerns.
But overall, you know, I'm not in that place where I'm going to, pull the tickle switch and think everything's lost.
HUNT: Okay, I want to ask you about one issue that has really exploded onto the scene here as we approach the midterm election, and that's data centers with Americans from both sides of the aisle having concerns about it. Now, of course, President Trump recently posted a very strong defense supporting A.I. data centers, but the governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, just issued an executive order that puts restrictions on data center construction.
I want to play what he said for you and we'll talk about it. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: The reality is I want CEOs that give a damn about the community where they're going to be. And unfortunately, we've seen too many developers who don't care about our communities, who we're trying to run roughshod over our communities. And those are the kinds of data center projects we don't want here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, who's right, President Trump or Governor Shapiro?
FETTERMAN: The president is actually right overall. I mean, you know, we used to be moving forward on data centers, and now, I mean, he's actually scared by the polls. So, I mean, what really -- what's really motivated by more than just the polls overall?
I set up my message on data centers. just a couple days on X where I'm saying it's -- you know, the president happens to be right in this. You know, I think it's very necessary that we win the war on A.I. We -- I think it's necessary because A.I. is going to transform our world and you know it can be either us be the leaders or it can be the Chinese, and we could -- we could live under those rules and they're going to build unlimited data centers and they're not really, really stopped by with a kind of like democracy and the kinds of rules that we have overall.
I think it's important, and I would remind people like a lot of the opposition has been driven by the CCP and a lot of -- a lot of influence. So, I think now with data centers, also there's the facts now that it consumes a very, very, maybe one tenth of one percent, you know, compared to almonds and compared to other -- other things, part of our economy and also our land usage as well too.
Pennsylvania, you know, we are energy rich, we are water rich, and we have -- we're land rich now. So I think it's an important part of our economy, not just for Pennsylvania, but also the country right now.
And I'm very much aware -- I can read the polls as a Democrat, but I think the president happens to be, you know, on A.I. and data centers, absolutely.
And now it's like sometimes there's more important, you know, than what the polls might say.
HUNT: All right, Senator John Fetterman, thank you very much for your time, sir. I appreciate it.
All right, coming up next here in THE ARENA, the Trump administration making good on the president's push to redo the Kennedy Center. What's being removed from the Performing Arts Center today and what could be next?
But first, a live report from outside court as the jury tells the judge a second time that they can't come to a decision in the murder trial of Lindsay Clancy.
[16:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE WILLIAM F. SULLIVAN, PLYMOUTH SUPERIOR COURT: Members of the jury, I've got your question, the question, or probably more of a statement than a question, saying, after much deliberation, we are still unable to come to a unanimous decision. Now, based on that, I'm going to give you another instruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right. Breaking news, after a fifth day of deliberations, jurors in the Lindsay Clancy triple murder trial still remain deadlocked. All this further raising the possibility of a mistrial. Earlier today, the judge read the group a copy of what is known as a Tuey-Rodriguez charge. It's a set of formal instructions that asks them to consider the reasonableness of all opinions and to continue deliberating toward a verdict.
[16:35:07]
A reminder that Clancy is facing charges for killing her three children. Her defense lawyers argue she's not criminally responsible because she was experiencing postpartum psychosis. CNN's Jean Cazares has been keeping track of all of the developments and she is outside the courtroom for us.
We are also joined by attorney and jury consultant Robert Hirschhorn, and former prosecutor Berit Berger.
So, Jean, let me start with you. Can you walk us through what happened inside and outside the courtroom today?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, as far as the jury, it started as a normal day. Remember, they sent a note out yesterday saying they could not reach a unanimous verdict, and the judge very casually told them to keep deliberating, keep going, keep trying.
So today, they started deliberating, and they deliberated all morning, but early afternoon, they sent a note. They said, we cannot find a unanimous verdict. So that's when, just as you were explaining, the Tuey-Rodriguez charge, which is from case law in Massachusetts, along with the American Bar Association's input.
It is a formal instruction that has to be read by the judge virtually to tell them to keep going. Look at both sides, keep an open mind. So, they did that and everyone was waiting for the hour to come for them to come out again and say they could not reach a deliberation. They did not do that. They kept deliberating until four o'clock and the judge sent him home and they're going to come back tomorrow morning.
Now, secondly, what happened today outside of court, we confirmed with the Massachusetts State Police that yesterday afternoon, 10 minutes after the jury left, when conceivably they're boarding the bus to go back to their cars, their homes, wherever they go, there was a retired nurse that has now been charged with one count of juror intimidation or harassment. Her arraignment was this morning. She's 56 years old.
And the defense said she was not in any way trying to harass the jury. She wanted to just see Lindsay Clancy. But the prosecution said no, there's much more than that because on her phone, on her deleted videos, there's a video of her recording the jurors yesterday.
So not guilty was entered into her behalf. But when she came out of that courthouse this morning, she had no idea what was going to meet her because there was a mob of journalists and she started running. right past us here, our live shot, to get to her car as fast as she could. But this is very serious because this is upwards of 20 years in prison, potentially because the fact this is a jury that's deliberating a number one felony, a life felony.
And that makes it more serious to try to distract or harass or intimidate the jurors. But no inclination. She is saying, "I didn't do that". HUNT: All right. So, Robert, let's talk about what the jury has been facing today. I mean, how much pressure, if any, does this formal charge apply to the jury deliberations? I mean, does it make any difference?
ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, ATTORNEY, JURY & TRIAL CONSULTANT: Sure, Kasie. Thanks for having me on the show.
They've been deliberating five days for 30 hours. This is a really serious case. Three children died. Kasie, jumped at -- I mean, she jumped out of the window, Kasie.
This is a really difficult case for the jury. They're taking the responsibility seriously. They're doing exactly what we want a jury in America to do. If they don't have a verdict by noon tomorrow, it's going to be a hung jury.
HUNT: And, Berit, I mean, you've seen this situation before as a lawyer when a jury comes back multiple times saying they just can't reach a verdict, and that we know that under state law in Massachusetts, this is basically the last chance.
So, I mean, how do you see this playing out? Do you think they'll ask for more time or are we headed for a mistrial?
BERIT BERGER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: So juries, if I know anything about them, it is that they are unpredictable. I have had this situation as a trial lawyer when I was a prosecutor. We put a case in, the jury deliberated, came back, the judge gave them a version of the Tuey-Rodriguez charge in federal court. It's called an Allen charge.
And in our case, the jury was not able to reach a verdict. that we had a mistrial that being said I've seen numerous cases where jurors have come back after getting one of these charges and actually reached a verdict because importantly, this charge that the judge gave them you know urges all of the jurors to reconsider their position but importantly, it says not just the jurors that are in the minority even the jurors that perhaps are in the majority need to go back and reconsider their position.
So, these jury instructions , you know, really are intended to remind the jurors that they've been there a long time, all the sides have invested a lot of resource, and no other jury out there will necessarily do a better job. So sometimes these are pretty powerful incentives for jurors to continue.
[16:40:03]
So I wouldn't -- I wouldn't say that a mistrial is absolutely guaranteed right now, although my hunch is we are probably headed that direction.
HUNT: And, Jean Casarez, you've covered so many trials. When and what have you seen along these lines in terms of deadlocked juries that come back and actually do reach verdicts or in your experience, don't they?
CASAREZ: I have them -- I have seen them come back with a verdict. But with a deliberation that is this long, I don't know if I have ever personally experienced a deliberation because it'll be seven days tomorrow. They started last Thursday deliberating.
And the time factor is unique. It truly is. But they're trying so hard. And if they keep deliberating and don't send in another note, the judge could allow them to just keep going.
HUNT: All right. Jean Casarez, Berit Berger, Robert Hirschhorn, thank you all so much for being with us. Really appreciate your time today.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:22]
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
A key piece of artwork outside the Kennedy Center was dismantled and removed at the venue's request. This big blue stick figure sculpture, it was installed in 2019. It's just the latest casualty of President Trump's renovation and renaming projects.
His recent decision to rename Lake Ontario as Lake America has seen, do you remember this? MapQuest. Yes, they are making a comeback. And you heard that right. The 1996 digital mapping platform has made clear that they are not renaming the lake. The app shot to number one on the App Store.
Earlier today, Donald Trump suggested that renaming another body of water, this time the Strait of Hormuz. He suggested changing it to the Trump Strait. He later claimed it was a joke.
My panel is back.
We do have to note that Xochitl does some work for the firm that is involved in the case around the Kennedy Center.
So, where to begin? I haven't thought about MapQuest in 20 years, probably. Is this, Marc, an example of -- I mean, President Trump lives by the axiom kind of like all press is good press, doesn't really matter if it's positive or negative. MapQuest seems to be leaning in on this.
Why pick the fight?
SHORT: Well, I think it's somewhat circular. The media gets outraged, so then he follows that and then he decides to rename something to get the media more outraged and it keeps the ratings up and the attention on him.
But I think that the challenge for a lot of Republicans right now is they want the focus to be on affordability. They want the focus to be on here's the number one issue again and again that voters are asking the administration to address.
And so, at the end of the day, how many people can change their opinion about voting because of the way to the Kennedy Center? I don't think there's a lot, Kasie, but I think there's a lot of elected Republicans who would wish that the focus would be on addressing the affordability issue.
HUNT: Well, if you listen to Joe Rogan as well, he also suggests that all the renaming is a distraction, although he's -- just let's watch the clip, and you'll see why he says they want to focus on this and not other things.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know that we renamed Lake Ontario today?
JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST: Yes. To Lake America. Lake Ontario is no longer Lake Ontario, it's Lake America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we might be doing the --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did we do that? But what's the purpose of changing the name?
ROGAN: Oh, could distract you from the fact that we're in a war that we can't win in Iran. It doesn't make any sense. Like, who cares? It's Lake Ontario. That's a good name. We've had that name forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, Scott, that's a good question. Who cares?
JENNINGS: I don't. I thought about it for a minute. I can't think of anything I care less about.
I do disagree with Joe Rogan about the war in Iran, though. We've already won the war in Iran, in my opinion. He's saying we can't win. We've already won the war in Iran. They're a defeated country by any historical metric.
So, I don't agree on that. That's a more important issue. I have a fundamental disagreement about that.
HUNT: I mean, if you talk to Republicans who are trying to keep their seats in Congress, they will mostly not say that they feel that we have won the war in Iran. They will instead say that it's causing them problems in their re-election campaigns.
JENNINGS: If I were them, I would certainly not go out in a congressional campaign and say, well, we lost the war. Sorry. We've won. We've beaten these people. There's going to continue to be some skirmishes.
They haven't exported a drop of oil since July. By any historical metric, we've beaten these people and we're going to continue to beat them. The President needs to tell the American people exactly all the ways we've won this war.
This has been -- I just fundamentally disagree with all this defeatist attitude around this. We've met our objectives militarily. They can't make a nuclear weapon. They can't export oil. Their economy is in free fall. Their leader is a cardboard cutout. How is any of this good for Iran?
HUNT: Yeah.
WRIGHT-RIGUEUR: I think part of the problem is that for the majority of people on the ground, they care about affordability. They don't necessarily care, and they're not buying this idea, particularly when the president comes out and says, yay, rah, rah, we've already won the war in Iran, and they're looking at the gas pump. They're looking at all of these various things that are coming across their scheme. They're looking at additional attacks that's coming out of reporting, and they're saying, that is not a reflection of my real life.
So we can say that and we can present that, I think, a media approach to this, but it's not reflected in what's happening within people's pockets or at the palm.
The other problem is I think that Donald Trump, and I agree with Marc here I think too, is that the majority of Republicans, and polling actually bears this out, right? The majority of Republicans want him to focus on affordability.
They want him to -- and not focus on this name change. It is wildly unpopular. They do not want to focus on the Kennedy Center and removing statues and removing artwork and putting his name back up on the building.
[16:50:00]
They want him to focus on the things that are going to either get them reelected or get them kicked out of office.
HUNT: It's also worth noting that the president actually said today that the war is going to wind down shortly. So, if it's already won, like, why does it need to wind down?
HINOJOSA: Well, he's been saying for quite some time that it's going to wind down, that we you know, it was only going to be a few weeks. So at this point, I mean, if you're going to say that he won the war, agree, Republicans don't think that, but voters don't think that.
Voters do not believe that we've won this war. They actually don't even know how that we get out of this war. So if I were a Republican or anybody in a swing district, I would call on the president to come out with a plan to get us out of this war and actually be sort of against the president in terms of like claiming victory.
So, I do think that at the end of the day, the polling shows people do not like this war. They want to talk about affordability, and that's not what Trump is doing. JENNINGS: You think people running for Congress in the president's party should go out and say, Well, gee whiz, everybody, we lost a war. Sorry about that.
HINOJOSA: I didn't say we lost a war. I didn't say that they should. They should say that you.
JENNINGS: You said they should disagree with the president about it.
HINOJOSA: I said they should disagree with the president in the sense that --
JENNINGS: What does that mean?
HINOJOSA: -- in the sense that maybe we shouldn't have gotten this war in the first place and it has been extremely costly and not only that is risen prices for the American people and there is no exit. There is no -- I mean, what's the exit strategy for the president?
JENNINGS: What is the exit strategy? The exit strategy is happening right now. They are defeated militarily. They have no navy. They have no army. They have no defense industrial complex.
They can't export a drop of oil. Their economy is in freefall, and it's all thanks to the U.S. military and thanks to a president who finally took on these people after 47 years of butchery and attacks on Western civilization.
There's an affirmative case to be made here. It was a righteous decision and that it was a good decision and is going to work out for the safety and security of the American people.
HUNT: If you look at the polling, though, on attacking Iran, only 27 percent think that it represents putting America first, 80 percent of Americans think that attacking Iran has increased their gas and grocery prices. Only 23 percent think that it's made us safer, and 55 percent, more than half, think it was a mistake.
JENNINGS: Like I said, it's the commander-in-chief's job, and I'm sure he will do it, to explain to the American people how we have won this war, how we are safer, and how this is going to benefit the world. That is the next phase of this.
HUNT: He's been doing that for months, but people don't seem to believe it. Why not?
JENNINGS: There has to be an affirmative, formal declaration of victory, in my opinion, and far be it for me to put a timetable on him, and he shouldn't let politics dictate this. But we're at the point now where Iran is totally scrambled and defeated, and we need to take credit for it, in my opinion.
HUNT: Marc?
SHORT: I think Scott makes a really compelling case. The reality is they are incredibly degraded. They have been a nemesis for 47 years, killing innocent Americans and Westerners across the Middle East. The Middle East will be a lot safer in the future because of Iran being degraded.
But I think Scott makes the case better than the administration has. I don't think the administration has taken the time to explain to the American people, here's what the cost going to be. Here's why this is important for us to engage in this.
There's been a lot of mixed messaging about what the purpose was originally and where we stand in the war.
HUNT: All right. On that note, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:57:48]
HUNT: All right, today marks day 80 since Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell was taken to a D.C. hospital. Since that time, his office has released two pictures of the senator who is now back home recovering. But he's not been seen in public since his June hospitalization, and he has not cast votes on the floor of the U.S. Senate.
Now, Scott Jennings, you, of course, worked for Mitch McConnell and have been in touch with him during this period. What have you heard? Is there anything you can share with us about his health?
JENNINGS: I haven't spoken to him for several days, just to be clear. I know he's at home. I know he's still doing his recovery.
The Senate goes back in on the 14th of September. I know they're fighting to get him back to work. I know he wants to go back to work, and I know he wants to finish his term, and it's his intention to do so.
But there's two weeks between now and the Senate goes back. The man's a fighter. Overcoming polio approves that. So, my thoughts and prayers are with him. I hope he comes back to work. There's some big issues coming up later this fall.
HUNT: When was the last time you were in contact with him?
JENNINGS: It's been several days, a couple weeks.
HUNT: Several days, couple weeks. That's a long -- sorry.
JENNINGS: It's been -- it's been a couple weeks since I spoke to him.
HUNT: And you say that you think that he intends to finish out the term that he has. He's obviously, of course, planning to leave.
JENNINGS: Of course. And yeah, yes, his intention is to finish his term. As far as I know, and his intention is to hopefully go back to work. And as you pointed out, this is his last term. The Senate race in Kentucky this fall and one way or the other, his term will end in January.
HUNT: Do you think that they should be saying more at this point?
JENNINGS: I think between now and the 14th, they need to tell the people of Kentucky his intentions on going back to the Senate floor. There's votes on the floor. There'll be votes in committee. I think agriculture committee, maybe the farm bill.
There's things coming up that are important to the people of Kentucky. So yes, I think between now and the 14th, they need to make clear their intentions about what his capabilities are going to be when the Senate goes back into its session.
HUNT: All right. Thank you very much to my panel. Really appreciate you all being here. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us.
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